Vero vs Instagram - But what about Flickr?
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Photographers are looking for alternatives to Instagram, and Vero seems to be the current trend to where photographers are going. But - what about Flickr? It’s been around for ages and it’s literally made for photographers to share their work and collaborate with other photographers.
Am I missing something here? People are jumping the Insta ship but are they going to the right place?
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After all the hype around Vero I gave it a go and it was god-awful for looking at photos! Flickr has always been by far the best, however it ONLY has photographers using it. If you're trying to reach a wider audience and make money, then Flickr isn't going to do it. What I like most about Flickr is that there are a LOT of excellent photographers on there and I really enjoy looking at great photos, in high res.
Flickr does everything for me. Allows me to share my attempts and get feedback, and also see what other people are doing & search for inspiration. Job done
Thanks David 😊
Yeah but 80% of the Feedback are bots 😒 not so satisfying
Exactly. It just does the job. I particularly like the simple organization tools and groups where I can find the kind of content I'm interested in. And the ability to get inspiration, discuss things and learn from other photographers. I have grown so much simply by using Flickr.
@@EchterBonito hmmm. bots? I have wondered how some people (many with definitely poor or mediocre photos) get many many hundreds or thousands of favs but always assumed that they just flood Flickr with favs in the hope of similar returns. How do bots infect Flickr?
@@EchterBonito That is not my experience. Flickr followers are mostly real.
As a photographer, I disagree with you. I don't care about follower or likes. I just want a platform to share my images with other photographers. I'm a photographer because of the love of photography, not a way to make money.
I have both Flickr and Vero. I prefer Flickr. Flickr has stayed the course and always been about photography.
I like on Flickr how it shows EXIF information and geotagging. Granted Vero looks clean and modern. Flickr could probably use a fresh look, if for nothing else than to let people know there are people actually working on it.
Thanks Marshall 👍😊
I gave up IG don’t watch TikTok Was on FlKr years again and may return . This is interesting Marc keep them coming
Thanks, there will be an update to this soon 👍
Instagram never was about photography.
I have been on Flickr for about 15 years. To me it’s the only photography platform.
Thanks Plato 😊
Cool
Great content Marc. I guess the main point that I got out of it all, is that for the novice like me, it’s just too confusing. Firstly, to use them all is just too expensive. To use just one, there has to be compromises. That’s why content like this is so important when trying to make that choice. By the way, I followed you and moved to VERO. More photography, less crap😊
Thanks Greg, appreciate your reply 👍
Thanks a lot, Marc, for sharing your thoughts and knowledge about these platforms. I recently deactivated my FB account (still on Messenger, though) and I am getting fed up by Instagram, too. The good content is drowning in Reels, and it is a hard time to keeping track on those, I follow. I don’t mind much that my photos don’t get many likes, I feel self assured in that respect 😊
Based on your video, I will definitely give Vero a chance and start by following you (nice to seeing your face again). Somehow, I am reluctant towards Flickr. I have always thought of it as a collection of people’s lowsy holiday photos - maybe I was wrong…
Thanks again - miss you a bit…
Thanks Marianne, appreciate your thoughts 🙏
Just discovered your channel. Interesting discussion. I use all four, although not much on FB. One area of concern I have read about on Flickr is the appropriation of your images by others. It's important that Flickr users make use of the protections available. Anything can be nicked off the internet but it is possible to licence your images in various ways. Otherwise, I think Flickr is fine.
Good points Geoff, thanks 👍
Flickr is still good but needs an upgrade, hopefully they do it sooner than later. Have not tried Vero yet
Thanks
I’ve been on Flickr since I started photography a couple of years ago, and to be totally honest it feels like the loneliest place in the world … and it also has that ‘camera club’ clique feel … some very poor photos get lots of views and likes, where as mine seem to disappear into a rabbit hole (I’m not saying mine are great, but they are poor either) … I assume I must be doing something wrong?
I am not an overly positive person when it comes to social media. There are so many things wrong with social media that not a lot of people are aware of no thanks to lack of information from mainstream media. I hope people keep in mind that in social media, users don't have any control over their content. The algorithm can determine who can or cannot see their post. With that algorithm, it can hurt most people's chances to get seen by audience and even potential clients.
Most social media platforms are platforms for creating revenue off of advertisements.
@@ared18t And off of users' backs as well.
Interesting issue! Sounds like it may be what each photographers vision would be.
Flickr required a Yahoo account because Yahoo bought them sometime around 2006. Crazy to think that back in the early 2000s Yahoo was one of the biggest sites on the internet, but they made a series of terrible choices and mishandled their most valuable properties (like Flickr)
Very true Peter 👍
Vero sounded good on the desktop but I only have a mobile device for emergencies and online verification. I ditched it during install when it wanted a phone number.
What about fb???
Love Flickr!
For the dodgy content, you can specify what you want to see in your profile (safe or over 18 content)
I miss 500px’s prime days. Sigh.
Never got into IG really. Left flickr a few years ago because of all the business changes. I prefer 500px for my 2 cents
Flickr has always had the potential to fulfill photographers needs , but suffered through it’s own poor management decisions over many years . But it is entirely for PHOTOGRAPHERS! Flickr won’t ever get the momentum as it doesn’t profit “influencers” if you examine the current push behind VERO - guess what it’s driven by the “influencers” . ( The conspiracist in me suspects deals done with a few “prominent “ influences 😊🤷🏼♂️) Let’s face it all these platforms have to be different things to so many , just read the comments here . Flickr designed for photography ( only) FB,IG ,VERO are mediums catering for a wide variety of interests . Just hold your breath and wait, this whole debate will dissipate as the influencers move onto more profitable click bait .
I think you right there Paul!
is good for gaming creater ??
I came across this episode as I was looking to see who's talking about Flickr, and more specifically because of Flickr's recent acquisition of This Week in Photo, Frederick Van Johnson's podcast channel. I've been very active with TWiP for a number of years now and with the association of TWiP with the SmugMug/Flickr family, I'm hopeful that there will be a revival of a channel outside of Instagram that is a better fit for photo-specific content. I've never liked or used Instagram much and I've pretty well stopped using Facebook for the most part.
I do think there's room for more competition in the social media photo app space. We need more variety of platforms that help address each distinct style. As an example, another app that's in beta is Panorra, specifically for the 360° photography community (which is mostly what I shoot).
It may be a good time to have some discussions and even comparative studies on what works for whom. You've done that with your comparison of Vero, Flickr, and Instagram very well here. But I think there's more to come in this space.
Thanks for taking the time to address this.
Thanks, some good points here 👏 👍
I started opening a Vero account but stopped when they asked for a phone number. I cannot understand why they would need a phone number. The people that I want to contact me already have it. There was just something sketchy about the ask. Also, I don't know what you get out of it that you wouldn't get out of a forum where you can post pics and have portfolios. Just my two cents.
Cheers Jim 👍
Exactly, why they need the phone number?
being legit, fb ask too, Google, so what's the problem???
I actually like Facebook too. I’m older and it’s where all my friends and contemporaries are. And as you mentioned it’s easy to socialize there.
Thanks for the input Dave 👍
Vero means taxes in Finland :D
lol well, taxes are a kind of truth/fact of life, right? ;p
Why not Flickr? There's so many reasons. It's a pain in the butt to use. It's interface is clunky, the way it handles permissions and safety settings is annoying and slow, it's organizer is poorly designed, it's url shortner when sharing albums is wonky and doesn't work in a lot of browsers. Non photographers don't really use it so your audience is even more limited than Instagram. Having said all that there are some positives (and I do use it for certain things). You have more control over your image viewing and download sizes, you have more control over grouping your photos into themes via albums.
Thanks for the input Jeffery.
Flickr is very good 👍 it’s made for us
A good straight forward explanation. I used Flickr since 2006 and have the Pro account, for me it's like an online scrapbook of life.
I agree that FB can be very useful for work and etc. Instagran doesn't make sense and Vero sounds similar. It's not all about me though.
Flickr is simply great. Simple, wonderfully functional and beautiful. Why people flock to the next "popular channel" has always eluded me.
Thanks Scott 👍
I've had a Pro Flickr account for some years. I use it as a backup for jpgs (if the worst comes to the worst and my other backups get destroyed for some reason I've still got something!) and for sharing albums with friends.
Thanks Neil 😊
Although I have Instagram, I am really a fan of Flickr. As a street photographer I am always amazed what other photographers from around the world (sometimes unexpectedly) react to my images. In turn, I get to see what, how and where they shoot from around the world. It gives me the opportunity to follow their work and that creates it's own community. Using LR seamlessly is a bonus. Paying for Pro just comes with the territory. Someone has to pay for the employees who do the work of managing and maintaining the site!
Thanks Bob 😊 👍
I do NOT like instagram, neve had liked it ! I have just looked at Vero, it does not look like a good community for photographers to have a good time, it looks more like a sale shop ! I use flick which could be better, but it flickr is the BEST place for photographers, here you can find other photographers, watch photos by genre, see what gear to use and much more.
Flickr on their about us page puts down the notion of albums saying they are "so 90's" and that Flickr offers a more modern experience. But then they allow albums and you said its a pro vs. con. As I search for the best place to put my content on the internet I find these conflicting view points to be confusing. This video was quite good overall.
Gotta keep it real here - there's nothing free under any system. Capitalism has nothing to do with it. Under a non-capitalism system, there wouldn't be a discussion of choice of platforms to display your images on. Capitalism just provides the opportunity for people with a better idea to have a chance at building something new.
I've only ever used Flickr for photography I had a pro account almost from the beginning, belong to many groups also setup/admin many groups but I think Flickr has lost its way recently, it's a real pain to use can be slow and clunky, so I've given up on the pro account, deleted the bulk of my photos, its become a shadow of its former self, shame really.
Thanks 👍
Peppa Barbie die hat von hat von hat von hat die
so far I like Vero vastly more than instagram. I've been, and still am, a user of flickr since 2007. I still like it way way more than instagram. However, flickr is diluted with lots of ordinary snapshot photography, which is ok... but in contrast to Vero, at least for now, the images there are the cream of the crop, at least so far. The look and appearance of Vero is outstanding. And again, the images and creators on Vero are the best of the best (from what I've seen). If it goes this way, I'll be committed to Vero (until it changes)
Thanks for this 👍
I have had a Flickr account since 2015, and even had a Pro account for one year. I used it more back then when I connected with Street Photogs and groups. I hate Instagram because of the videos and time issue. Since I'm just a hobbyist, I have considered using Flickr more and dropping my Pixieset website and Client Gallery. I opened a VERO account a couple of weeks ago. I like having the desktop app, but do find it "clunky" for the same reasons you mentioned. I have three FB pages (personal and two for photography). I don't like how the pages and their associated profiles interact. FB changed something in the last couple of months that makes it tough switching between pages and receiving notifications and comments. I'd rather have a separate photography account, but it evidentially isn't possible.
Thanks, this was a great video.
You're welcome Michael, thanks for the comments 👍
GREAT!!!!!
I like Flickr.
I am learning photography. I haven't tried Instagram. I do not, nor will I get, Facebook. I didn't know about Vero. I do have Flickr and UA-cam. I really like Flickr except that I find it difficult to find groups or even viewers that are willing to give feedback. I have tried liking and commenting on others' photos in hopes they would reciprocate, but it doesn't happen. I only just recently started my UA-cam channel so it's too early to say on that one. I wonder if I should try Vero while it's still free to try. Thank you for this video. I look forward to your followup video.
You're welcome 😊
Very good and inspiring video. And a very interest surprise at the end😊.
Thanks Andrej 👍
thanks for this video, I’m following you on Vero
Thanks 😊
Marc, you’ve given us all a lot to think about.
For me personally here’s how I feel about each platform you’ve discussed.
Facebook - beyond annoying with regards to the misinformation being shared. While I still have an account I’ve removed it from both the phone and IPad and will occasionally log into it on the desktop. I keep the account because of groups such as yours (no longer a member 😢) and our local photography group which uses this platform for updates, meeting dates etc etc. It seems if you want to know the latest information and news then you need a facebook account. The amounts of ads and other garbage on it is what drove me to keep my time on it to a minimum.
Instagram - Same as facebook, too many ads, to many stupid videos and to much garbage being shared. Like you said, it’s a real time waster. Do I have an account, yes. If you make the mistake of watching even one video then you are inundated with more of the same. Why do I still have an account, well I’m not sure. I do think I will be shutting it down shortly and I’ll tell you in a comment to follow.
VERO - I just joined VERO two or three days ago. So far I’m liking what I see. I did not put the app on my phone and am sticking with the desktop. I like the look of it, the layout and for the most part it didn’t take me long to figure out how to use it. You mentioned about not finding the latest and greatest when searching (can’t remember your exact words) but for me that’s okay as sometimes I don’t always want to see the latest and greatest, I want to see what people are doing and how they are progressing through their photography journey.
Flickr - Yes I have an account and have had one for many years now, since 2007 I believe. I did have a pro account for a couple of years but recently cancelled that and went back to the free one. I have been finding that one can spend an awful lot of money on photography from equipment to programs. Between paying monthly for Lightroom/Photoshop, the occasional added program such as Topaz I have a hard time paying another monthly instalment for something that I can use for free such as Flickr. Don’t get me wrong, I really do like Flickr and belong to 2 really great groups that push my photography and that’s a good thing.
Now, the things I really hate about all except the VERO app (because I haven’t had it long enough to know if it will happen) are those folks that create fake accounts and then try and hit on me. I even had one guy take images off the internet, pass them off as images of himself as a US Army General and hit on me. Once I realized all the images were stolen I contacted the Flickr team and they immediately shut him down. Still, that kind of stuff can take the joy out of some of these platforms.
Yes Marc, you are correct - I do put my stuff out there to get the feedback from other likeminded folks. The feedback boosts me up and lets me know if what I’m doing is any good. I took your full course for a year and a half and I’ve learned so much! I know my photography has greatly improved as a result but once I finished them I did not want to continue paying for yet another photography item.
This has been a very long winded reply to your request. I’m sure I’ve missed areas I wanted to touch on but hopefully this helps.
Jan W
Thanks Jan, certainly does help, thanks for the input here 👍
I followed you on Vero so 1 follower extra 😉
Thanks 😊
Flickr has some issues since it went through redesign a few years ago, the biggest being that they don’t maintain the site well and address bugs in a timely manner. But for photographers it is still probably the best site for sharing your work. That’s not saying much, because there are no great sites (or communities) for photographers anymore, but of those that are out there, Flickr is still one of the best.
As for “dodgy” pictures, yes, Flickr does allow you to upload anything. It explicitly says that nudity and pornography is not banned. However, images have tags that categorize them as “safe”, etc., and most groups will have rules that will automatically block content that isn’t acceptably tagged.
I've used Flickr since 2007. Even in their transition. I share my pictures with family, friends, and the world and I decide how to do it. My photostream, albums, groups, etc. I am at a Pro level but there are basic users level.
Flickr still has massive potential. There is a ready made community of photographers willing to pay for it, even though its a bit crap. Some investment, refresh and an interface that isn't from 2010 would go a long way.
Thank you, Marc, for this information. I currently don't have any of these platforms, so it gave a lot to think about. Watching the video was certainly not a waste of time.
Flickr works for me, even if you use it just to store your photos, I think it's a fair price for what you get.
Hello. Please, how does one share an album without the sharee being able to see one's other albums?
I don’t get it, surely crisps grow in summer time, how on earth do you make them!?
I won’t be leaving instagram because I have some great connections with a multitude of very good but not pro photographers, friends and family and I enjoy following professional photographers on it too. I don’t want to disconnect from all of that. So I hope all of you won’t leave it for good. Sure I joined Vero. But it is just one more thing I have to check in to and by the time I’ve done IG I don’t usually bother. I really wonder by pro.photographers think they will do better business wise on Vero when it might mostly be the pros looking at each other. IG and YTube are where I stay connected.
Thanks Dorothy 😊
Does it have same for one capture?
I think about the approach to adopt regarding my presence on the web. Why I want to be there? Why I dont want to be there? Etc. Of course I am seeking personal gratification. Obviously, I am looking for personal satisfaction, but not at all costs.
And as you can easily get lost, this video was a great help to me in my thinking. it's not over, but I have a better idéal about it.To share. To commit. To Belong to a community… this lucid discussion on the subject has been of great help to me.
And I appreciate that. In some cases, we watch a video and we are even more confused than before, this is not the case here. We feel your sense of pedagogy. THANK you. I hope Google translate did a good job…
Hi Martin, thank you for the comments here. Google did fine 🙂
I have to say I don’t like Instagram at all. As you say it sucks you in and is such a time waster BUT more importantly I don’t think it does your photos any justice. My photos always look much nicer on Flickr. I have only dabbled in it and don’t pay. I will now look at using it properly. I didn’t know that you could download straight from Lightroom with tag words. Brilliant! I don’t know Vero so I can’t comment. Brilliant video Marc. Thank you. Jenny.
Thanks and you are welcome 👍
Hi Marc, Thank you for this video. I don't have an Instagram Account, or Vero (albeit I am thinking about setting it up on my desktop). I mainly use Facebook on my Ipad and desktop to post my wildlife images to friends and a few groups I'm in. Also have a Flickr account on my desktop only again to post my images. Cheers, Mal from North Yorkshire.
Thanks for the input Mal 👍
Great video. What people think about Behance?
Good question 🤔
Gracias por todo. Saludos desde ECUADOR
Thank you 😊
Spot on Marc ! Thank you for the insightful and thought provoking content. Something I have been thinking about, but had no objective resource to go to.
You're welcome Maarten 😊 🙏
You scared me for a second there. You said "True Social", not to be confused with "Truth Social", the Twitter knockoff created by Trump.
😂
You scare easily don’t you? Mean orange man coming for you.
I'm there to get clients, I don't care about likes for my ego
Great food for thought Marc. I use different platforms for different things, as I'm sure we all do.
FB - mostly I post photos to FB for the TSOP group, but also to special interest groups (for example a local campaign to save an old golf course from development, or occasionally to the general town page if I think it's of general local interest). Really annoying though the algorithms are (finding something I know I have seen before is not always easy), and its dodgy data protection, it's too commonly used to ignore or stop using (for me at least).
Instagram - I follow a pro photographer that recommended Insta as a way of getting out there and gathering a following that you might need to promote yourself as a photographer. I used to post a few shots every week but tbh it has been a while (lots of other things to do and I don't feel like I'm ever going to need a following ...). Like you I am seeing a lot of unrelated stuff recently and seem to spend a lot of time blocking celebs that I have no interest in. Annoying ...
Vero - I created an account to check it out and it does look good but again I don't have time to maintain (or even monitor) multiple platforms. I like your comment that you have to go looking for things to see rather than them getting pushed to you. I might try that more.
Flickr - I have been a Flickr user since 2007 (don't know why as I wasn't anything like a serious photographer then ...) and have upgraded to pro some years ago (I have 6,000+ photos on the platform). I am lucky enough to be able to afford the subscription, but as you say - you pay for things in treasure (money) or blood (suffering the ads and the other rubbish). It can be complicated to use and I don't think I fully understand the security model even now, but you can control who sees what to a large degree, which I like. I should probably spend more time looking at functionality I don't exploit. Although I don't use LR my workflow automatically uploads photos to Flickr that I 'export', so I have a backup of all pictures I have shared for whatever reason.
Given my investment in Flickr I won't be giving that up and may try to exploit it to share more perhaps to replace my Insta and Vero accounts, and FB - well that is pretty much a given despite all its faults I'm afraid. In fact, this analysis has prompted me to look at Flickr in more detail and learn how to use it properly. Thanks!
Thanks for the input Kevin 👍 🙂
What about 500px or YouPic applications?
Yeap, discuss that here please 👍
Pixelfed, is what Instagram used to be. Very community driven and decentralized. Being decentralized you actually have a variety of communities to join, yet still free to explore the others. No big tech, no ads. You can even create your own server if you wanted to try something different. It Maybe worth a look.......
So happy you made this Marc. I’ve wondered for a long time about the buzz of new platforms that allow people to share photos when Flickr offers so much already. I think the thing is that Flickr is for photography and for photographers and could appear snobbish to more casual snappers. Facebook on the other hand is a social media platform first that happens to allow you to share photos. And it appears almost everyone on Facebook also use Instagram and often share the exact same content. I have not been happy with the downgraded image quality in Facebook and the initial square format and now limited photo viewing options on Instagram.
I will say that I’ve given Vero a try. I really like the look and feel and the content I’ve discovered. But as you say, you have to spend the time looking for it. Like Flickr, it’s designed for creatives so I’m not finding my friends there - which is the unfortunate reality. The platform that some people say should not be overlooked is Twitter. I do have friends there and Twitter does a decent job displaying image (I haven’t noticed any negative Muskiness yet). I post some personal photos on INSTA and FB and occasionally more artistic work. I often share links to a Flickr album on FB and Twitter.
I agree with all of the positives you share and I am a big user of groups, albums (and collections), plus uploading and key-wording from Lightroom. I haven’t used galleries in a while.
I’ve paid for a pro Flickr account for many years and for me offers many features for me to share my photography with the photographic world.
Your comment about always watermarking photos got my attention as it is something I rarely do. I am not a professional and not terribly worried about people using a few lower grade images on FB or INSTA. But with Flickr hosting thousands of my high res photos I put a lot of trust in Flickr’s Creative Commons licensing feature. I know some of my images have been stolen for use outside of my CC licensing, but for the most part, a lot of people use my photos for legitimate blog posts with credit and references to my Flickr account.
The Flickr apps for iPhone and iPad are quite good but have some limitations and I find working in the organizing section on the web a little sluggish. The Flickr apps for Apple TV need some love and attention.
Finally, one that I like that you didn’t mention was Flickr’s privacy options. Along with publicly sharing my artistic work, I use Flickr to share personal photos with family and friends. I just provide them with an encoded link and they are able to view the content nicely and download high res images for themselves. How are other people sharing highly quality collections with family and friends these days? Please don’t say Dropbox.
Again, thanks for starting this discussion and I’ll now take time to look at what others think. Looking forward to connecting with you all and sharing our love for photography- you can find me @PJMixer on Flickr, Vero, Instagram, Twitter and UA-cam (clearly the best platform for sharing videos).
Thank you PJ appreciate the comments 👍😊
Hi Marc, interesting discussion point isn't it.
What constitutes social media, and why do people want or need to be on these platforms?
I think Jan W's comment pretty much sums up the benefits or disadvantages of the different platforms. But why do people need to be on multiple platforms? What do some people get out of the shallow nature of the instance like? FOMO maybe? I don't know? That's why I'm not on any common platforms.
All credit to you as you openly stated your reasons, it's for marketing your business and UA-cam. This was how I came to find you and TSOP and why I am now a TSOP member.
For me, as a photographer, I take photographs that please me, I don't really care if anyone else likes them or not. I'm not in this game simply for the immediate gratification of social media likes or followers, I want to hear from my peers as to why someone enjoys viewing a photo I took or conversely why they didn't and how I might improve. The platform I choose to do this on is through the TSOP members area. I do not want or believe in the shallow nature of social media and the lack of real peer commentary.
I have had a Flickr pro account (www.flickr.com/photos/stuhphotos/) for about a year now as I find this to be a none threatening medium to share some of my photos with my family & friends and anyone else who cares to breeze on by, but I don't regard this platform as 'social media' in the same way as the other common platforms FB, IG and others.
Am I wrong? I don't know but I do know Flickr works for me at present, social media has never appealed. This is the first I've heard of Vero, will I consider it? probably not. Why? I put my energy into Flickr and that's enough. There's a real world happening around us, outside of the internet, PC's, Apps and so on, we all need to get out and enjoy it away from social media, and for me I still have plenty of time & energy to enjoy this real world 🙂
An Update to my comment.
I have recently completed the TSOP Macro course run by the excellent Oliver Wright (www.oliverwrightphotography.com/). Part of this course I listened to how Oliver has used the common social media platforms to establish and then grow his photographic business. The exposure across these platforms has succeeded in him becoming a Canon ambassador and led to many other business opportunities, so I can now understand why & how these platforms maybe useful in certain situations.
Thanks Stuart, appreciate your thoughts 🙏