If it were my machine I'd be getting up in the middle of the night just to go into the workshop just to sit and stare at it!....................great news Seon!
Looking forward to a full series on this machine. Our 24yo pnp machine just died and will cost almost as much as a new machine to get back up. So we are looking at new machines now.
My faith that a professional & reliable home based PNP machine that is actually affordable for a small business has been restored by watching this! Been following the PNP game since Neoden released their first machine. Looks like they nailed it with this design. Keep the high quality videos coming!
I am so happy for you. I hope you will be enjoying your production runs for a long time to come and the exciting new projects you can do with all your energy.
You might need one or two (under) support pins in the middle of the pcb to stop the bouncing. Great to have such a accurate outcome on your first pass. Hope this new unit gives you back some time for family and new projects. A layer of clear double-sided tape on front of vibration feeder can help with feeder tubes positioning. The volume level on the video could indicate the amplitude it vibrates at, is likely at a far higher level than it needs to be to move parts to pickup point. Setting placing program if it allows to put IC's down first, then connectors, other parts, then the smaller passives last, will help with not having tiny parts under costly parts or things where noticing an out of place passive would make fault diagnosis difficult.
Great to see this working. From what you said, it seems like after the machine arrived, you couldn't sleep until you got it to the stage where you'd know whether your long nightmare was over!
That is amazing Seon. You certainly deserve this after all the troubles you have had. A fantastic peace of mind that you can concentrate on things that matter and let the machine do the job it was intended to do.. AWESOME!!!
Wow, Seon! That's incredibly nice for a first run on a new machine. Can't wait to see it working after you've had a chance to tweak positions and heights and stuff. Congrats!!
Wow that's so amazing to see compared to what you produced before this! Those 'crooked' parts will probably reflow just fine and center out during that
Your happiness really shines through during this video - Understandable! I would be all giddy watching this machine work and the sounds of valves and motors 'manufacturing' really is fantastic :D Congratulations on your success - you've more than earned it!
Good for you! I bought a NeoDen4 and IN6 based on your issues with Charmhigh. My NeoDen4 had accuracy just likes yours out of the box. Unfortunately I haven't had a lot of time to use the machine yet. There were some minor manufacturing issues from NeoDen. Nothing that couldn't be resolved. They are quick to return emails. NeoDen seems like a good choice for PNP machines.
Which is a rating for the machine from 1 to 10? How much is really speed CPH in work? Whether you are satisfied with the precision and which smallest components it can mount? You have very great videos, thanks for that.
Thanks for your sharing, SO I got some question to ask you about machine when start Mounting Feeder not feed to machine pick, so what going on with it? And I ready check on fuse it is ok How we should do more?
Congratulations! This looks great. I am glad you found a working machine finally! :) It is on par with the results I am getting with my Quad 4000C. I love how the NeoDen is so nice and quiet. The vibration feeders are always a pain in the butt though, even worse with ICs that love to climb onto each other. So I always try my hardest to not have parts in tubes if I can avoid it. That said, I bet you will learn more details about the machine and optimize the assembly time and pickup reliability over time, but that is just the remaining 1% that is how it should be if you ask me. Again, I am so happy for you! :)
Congrats on the new machine and glad to hear you happy. Maybe you should send the video to charmhigh! Then again, maybe to Neoden and see what they say about how you can improve things.
It’s really a pleasure to watch this machine in comparison with the crappy charmhigh. And this result after one day is incredible. I hope that you now can produce your boards without any hassle and move on to new interesting projects in the future.
mesmerising to watch, its better than watching 3d printing time-lapse --- and this is at real speed. You have one very impressive robot there - and its building lil robot brains........ Seon the Mass producer!!!!
Make a ' chear sheet " of component heights when you set up for things like the JST connector. Most, if not all of similar parts would need an ajustment when you start new board designs, and faster knowing the refrence speed/height/placement/pickup-hold values from this ( and other boards ). Definitly way better than playing scramble after every run to recover expensive components.
Long ago I heard this: Remember that long after the joy of a low price is forgotten, the annoyance of poor quality is remembered. An early christmas gift it seems - lots of joy and happy moments with it :ø)
But the real question is how many parts are on the floor? But in all seriousness, that panel looks phenomenal and the video w/ the lid closed was perfectly clear. Great to see that the Neoden was is working great and looking forward to seeing your journey as you optimize this. For a follow-up, might I suggest a comparison of 60% vs 100% speed to see if the accuracy drops? This looks pretty solidly built so I don't suspect it will, but it could make for an interesting watch.
I am planning to buy all the line ( stencils , P&P, reflow ) , following you videos with a big interest what about wave or selective or dip machine for thru holes ?
looks definately more reliable than the craphigh... about 15 mn per board at this speed... just add a light inside ! the air expelled seems to make quite a noise too argh a JST jumped... it looked like it's going down too far when placing that connector, the board was flexing somewhat now go make some more so that Nate earns her keep ;-)
Great to see the amazing results! Obviously you chose well, but why did you pick that model instead of Neoden 4, or something like a Small SMT 2800? I'm looking at getting a small scale production PNP in the near future so I'd be interested to hear what made you get that specific one. 🙂
My current production requirements are not "small scale qty" and I wanted something that would future proof me for a while and that I could really flex my capabilities with. 8 heads, fast, reliable 0201 and support for mixed pneumatic and electric feeders.
Hi Seon, I have a question relating to the Neoden 8 Pick and Place Machine. I have watched your videos (you are very inspiring!) and have read through the comments (your community is wonderful!) but have not seen anything that details why you changed from Neoden 8 to the new Juki machine. I read a post on EEVBlog that said it was having problems but there is nothing of substance. Are you able to provide a little context on why you stopped using the Neoden 8 and maybe how you felt about it after a few years of using. Thanks Heaps.
it's because I am using the N8 software to panellise the placement, so a single board turns into 8 and get's done 1 at a time, just like JLC panellise a single board into a panel.
Do you think the S1 would have worked eventually? How do you compare the two? What was the price difference? I have a Neoden 4. It does not appear to pick up the components as well as this machine.
HI Unexpected Maker, love your videos! Question... You've had the Neoden K1830 for nearly 2 years now, is it still the best thing since sliced bread? Have you had any problems (technical or support)? I am on the market for an SMT machine and keen on your thoughts now you have had yours for almost a couple of years mate. Cheers from NZ.
@@UnexpectedMaker Ah I see. Well maybe you could ask them for the panelized gerbers and then submit it when you order. That way the fiducial placement can always be the same.
Hello I am going to buy neoden 8 pick and place can i know if i should go for it and should i buy pneumatic feeders or electronic feeders? your help would be really appretiated.
I know you keep knocking Charmhigh -- but you have not disclosed here that this machine is about 3X the cost of your older machine... Right? In fairness, you have upgraded to better equipment, and this is not an apples to apples comparison anymore. I think many of your parts are slightly off-center. You don't have fiducial markings on the board to line up on? Why not? What is your total cost for the machine and the feeders? Feeders are a big part of the price so, that is an important part of the investment. Are these proprietary NeoDen feeders? Or some industry standard?
@@UnexpectedMaker I'm sure you have plenty of videos of it not doing what it was supposed to do. But happy to hear this new investment is working out for you
@@UnexpectedMaker Thanks. Was confident for the K1830 @ 350kg could easily get this removed from the packing crate with only a couple of hand pallet trucks. Not so confident now with the N10 at 1 ton. :) We will sort something out though so we can do this at home (not the factory). Have a proper truck at work where it would have been a doddle.
К 1830 удивился они очень старые . Времён СССР. Погуглил - arduino IDE их программировать может до сих пор. А тут не микросхема а станок по их распайке 😂
I'm currently running pneumatic for 12mm+ feeders and the hybrid electric/pneumatic for 8mm. I do have some 8mm fully electric here, but they are not being used yet.
@@UnexpectedMaker seems the pneumatic feeders are 4 times less expensive than the electric ones ( for 8 and 12mm) , then the price is the same after 16mm . ( or my chinese supplier made mistake on the quote )
@@Tupeutla Yes, electric are much more expensive than pneumatic.It comes down to what components you are wanting to feed. You can't reliably do small (0402 and similar size packages or below) with pneumatic unless it's a REALLY high end PnP, and then I'd still be going electric.
Oh how different. Looks, sounds and behaves as a professional machine, not the hair tearing "toy" disaster as the Charm****!#$#** was. To have a first run come out as near perfect, before even making the typical optimisations is just great. That it is possible to get this result before really becoming familiar means it has few quirks and idosyncrosies. The multihead and camera systems seem to be working especially well, and positioning seems to remain spot on, not drifting over time. Not visible if any parts have skipped/fall down, which was one of the worst problems on th Ch..... Now you will not be sweeping up a fortune of parts all the time. Also can likely get production running to a schedule and expect to keep to schedule, withour needing 24/7 observation and rework. You are finally on the way,.
To see you having fun with a machine you can finally trust again. That is a good feeling.
If it were my machine I'd be getting up in the middle of the night just to go into the workshop just to sit and stare at it!....................great news Seon!
Hahaha, I've been getting up at 5am ;)
Looking forward to a full series on this machine. Our 24yo pnp machine just died and will cost almost as much as a new machine to get back up. So we are looking at new machines now.
My faith that a professional & reliable home based PNP machine that is actually affordable for a small business has been restored by watching this! Been following the PNP game since Neoden released their first machine.
Looks like they nailed it with this design.
Keep the high quality videos coming!
I am so happy for you. I hope you will be enjoying your production runs for a long time to come and the exciting new projects you can do with all your energy.
awesome result ! you upgraded from a fancy fair crane machine to an actual Pick and Place machine
Nice when you get a tool that can do what it is supposed to do glad you are happy with your new machine
Glad to see you smiling again! Congrats, Seon! All the best and may this machine bring a lot of joy :)
You might need one or two (under) support pins in the middle of the pcb to stop the bouncing. Great to have such a accurate outcome on your first pass. Hope this new unit gives you back some time for family and new projects.
A layer of clear double-sided tape on front of vibration feeder can help with feeder tubes positioning. The volume level on the video could indicate the amplitude it vibrates at, is likely at a far higher level than it needs to be to move parts to pickup point.
Setting placing program if it allows to put IC's down first, then connectors, other parts, then the smaller passives last, will help with not having tiny parts under costly parts or things where noticing an out of place passive would make fault diagnosis difficult.
I am REALLY glad to see you've finally a working PnP machine. 2020 is not a bad year after all. I can not wait for an optimised PnP run video.
Great to see this working. From what you said, it seems like after the machine arrived, you couldn't sleep until you got it to the stage where you'd know whether your long nightmare was over!
Yup, I had to know as soon as possible if I had broken my PnP curse! :)
Great to have something you can depend on. You certainly are due a break. Looks like you will have a merry Christmas. Stay safe.
That is amazing Seon. You certainly deserve this after all the troubles you have had. A fantastic peace of mind that you can concentrate on things that matter and let the machine do the job it was intended to do.. AWESOME!!!
great job. and the speed is now without optimizing already great. nice to see. this is great.
Wow, Seon! That's incredibly nice for a first run on a new machine. Can't wait to see it working after you've had a chance to tweak positions and heights and stuff. Congrats!!
Wow that's so amazing to see compared to what you produced before this! Those 'crooked' parts will probably reflow just fine and center out during that
Your happiness really shines through during this video - Understandable! I would be all giddy watching this machine work and the sounds of valves and motors 'manufacturing' really is fantastic :D Congratulations on your success - you've more than earned it!
Great to see a machine that works. Congratulations.
That intro says it all.
This makes me smile. Now I want one but I have no where to put it. :'(
Congratulations to the successful first run! Feeling relieved with you!
Really good to hear you enjoying your work!
Good for you! I bought a NeoDen4 and IN6 based on your issues with Charmhigh. My NeoDen4 had accuracy just likes yours out of the box. Unfortunately I haven't had a lot of time to use the machine yet. There were some minor manufacturing issues from NeoDen. Nothing that couldn't be resolved. They are quick to return emails. NeoDen seems like a good choice for PNP machines.
Yes, Neoden support is pretty great. they show they really care about their machines and their customer support!
This is great news! Glad it worked on the first try. Awesome quality.
I TOLD YOU SO. *grin* I love my Neoden... and I think it will serve you well Seon.
I can guarantee that if I ever buy a pnp it will not be a craplow. And I might fancy a neoden.
It's amazing what happens when you get hold of someone that actually knows what they're doing.
I’m glad it’s finally working out
Great news Seon. I know this will help you in your production. If any questions, do not hesitate to ask.
Well aren't you mister fancy!
Congrats, ending this crazy year on a high note. Well done. Looking forward to your upcoming progress.
Great news Seon! Wish you the best with this pnp!!
Really happy for you, Seon. It’s night and day the difference.
On the one hand I want a PNP machine on the other, hand soldering PCBs is one of the things I enjoy most about the hobby.
I also enjoy hand assembly, but not when I have to make thousands of boards- that kinda sucks the fun out of it ;)
@@UnexpectedMaker yeah I can definitely see that getting tedious haha :)
So pleased see you've got a machine which works!
Congratulations! That went really well. It makes me want to get one, but I should come up with a product first...
Very happy for you Seon!
Which is a rating for the machine from 1 to 10?
How much is really speed CPH in work?
Whether you are satisfied with the precision and which smallest components it can mount?
You have very great videos, thanks for that.
I'm pretty sure I cover most of that here :)
ua-cam.com/video/0i9rB-u-noc/v-deo.html
Congrats on the new PNP! Looks great! If I have increased production requirements I will get one.
So happy for you mate, you deserve a good machine and this one seems to be meeting the brief!
So happy for you mate! Let's get some making done 😎🐨
Thanks for your sharing, SO I got some question to ask you about machine when start Mounting Feeder not feed to machine pick, so what going on with it? And I ready check on fuse it is ok How we should do more?
Congratulations! This looks great. I am glad you found a working machine finally! :) It is on par with the results I am getting with my Quad 4000C. I love how the NeoDen is so nice and quiet. The vibration feeders are always a pain in the butt though, even worse with ICs that love to climb onto each other. So I always try my hardest to not have parts in tubes if I can avoid it. That said, I bet you will learn more details about the machine and optimize the assembly time and pickup reliability over time, but that is just the remaining 1% that is how it should be if you ask me. Again, I am so happy for you! :)
I've now sourced and ordered JST and STEMMA connectors on reels ;)
An absolute world of difference from the scamhigh. Congrats Seon, it's great to see you happy :)
Congrats on the new machine and glad to hear you happy. Maybe you should send the video to charmhigh! Then again, maybe to Neoden and see what they say about how you can improve things.
It’s really a pleasure to watch this machine in comparison with the crappy charmhigh. And this result after one day is incredible. I hope that you now can produce your boards without any hassle and move on to new interesting projects in the future.
Thanks Michael! That is also my hope!!!!
awesome result Seon and that was 60%. Imagine 80% or 100%!!
mesmerising to watch, its better than watching 3d printing time-lapse --- and this is at real speed.
You have one very impressive robot there - and its building lil robot brains........
Seon the Mass producer!!!!
Make a ' chear sheet " of component heights when you set up for things like the JST connector. Most, if not all of similar parts would need an ajustment when you start new board designs, and faster knowing the refrence speed/height/placement/pickup-hold values from this ( and other boards ).
Definitly way better than playing scramble after every run to recover expensive components.
Long ago I heard this: Remember that long after the joy of a low price is forgotten, the annoyance of poor quality is remembered.
An early christmas gift it seems - lots of joy and happy moments with it :ø)
True! But I didn't buy the CHMT based on price, which made it even more disappointing when it was rubbish.
Glad to see things working as expected. Excited to see more!
G'Day N8!
Great news . Glad you had a win finally.
WOW picks and places. 👌👏👍👍
But the real question is how many parts are on the floor? But in all seriousness, that panel looks phenomenal and the video w/ the lid closed was perfectly clear. Great to see that the Neoden was is working great and looking forward to seeing your journey as you optimize this. For a follow-up, might I suggest a comparison of 60% vs 100% speed to see if the accuracy drops? This looks pretty solidly built so I don't suspect it will, but it could make for an interesting watch.
I am planning to buy all the line ( stencils , P&P, reflow ) , following you videos with a big interest
what about wave or selective or dip machine for thru holes ?
have you been in contact directly with Tonny at Neoden ?
looks definately more reliable than the craphigh... about 15 mn per board at this speed...
just add a light inside !
the air expelled seems to make quite a noise too
argh a JST jumped... it looked like it's going down too far when placing that connector, the board was flexing somewhat
now go make some more so that Nate earns her keep ;-)
There are 2 super bright lights inside already.
@@UnexpectedMaker hah.
keeping the cover open may add reasons for vibrations. defeating the sensor shouldn't be hard
The thumbnail makes me happy
This is so good to see! Awesome!
Glad it's going well.
Thanks!
Great to see the amazing results! Obviously you chose well, but why did you pick that model instead of Neoden 4, or something like a Small SMT 2800? I'm looking at getting a small scale production PNP in the near future so I'd be interested to hear what made you get that specific one. 🙂
My current production requirements are not "small scale qty" and I wanted something that would future proof me for a while and that I could really flex my capabilities with. 8 heads, fast, reliable 0201 and support for mixed pneumatic and electric feeders.
Those chips soldered slightly not straight were due to PCB design and mask layout issue. 😁
Anyway, a beautiful board.
Hi Seon, I have a question relating to the Neoden 8 Pick and Place Machine. I have watched your videos (you are very inspiring!) and have read through the comments (your community is wonderful!) but have not seen anything that details why you changed from Neoden 8 to the new Juki machine. I read a post on EEVBlog that said it was having problems but there is nothing of substance. Are you able to provide a little context on why you stopped using the Neoden 8 and maybe how you felt about it after a few years of using. Thanks Heaps.
Yay! Very happy for you. And, in time for x-mas.
And how many parts ended on the floor?
None I guess 😁😁👍👍
incredible! why is it placing 1 board at a time? Is this because of nozzle sizes are all different?
it's because I am using the N8 software to panellise the placement, so a single board turns into 8 and get's done 1 at a time, just like JLC panellise a single board into a panel.
Do you think the S1 would have worked eventually? How do you compare the two? What was the price difference? I have a Neoden 4. It does not appear to pick up the components as well as this machine.
Amazing, what an improvement in quality! 😱 I might have to start outsourcing my SMD boards to you mate!
hahaha
@@UnexpectedMaker in all seriousness, if you get to the point where you have capacity for small runs, let me know.👍
HI Unexpected Maker, love your videos! Question... You've had the Neoden K1830 for nearly 2 years now, is it still the best thing since sliced bread? Have you had any problems (technical or support)? I am on the market for an SMT machine and keen on your thoughts now you have had yours for almost a couple of years mate. Cheers from NZ.
Congrats Seon!
At 15:18, it looks like the high pin count IC is completely misaligned?
Nope, it was aligned to the pins - just the paste was offset a little, making it look like it was out :)
Neat machine and placement. Btw did you place the fiducials on the PCB or does JLCPCB do it ?
JLC PCB panellised these boards, so they did the edge rails with the fidicuals.
@@UnexpectedMaker Ah I see. Well maybe you could ask them for the panelized gerbers and then submit it when you order. That way the fiducial placement can always be the same.
Good idea!
Can u deal with second hand machine or used machine
Hello
I am going to buy neoden 8 pick and place can i know if i should go for it and should i buy pneumatic feeders or electronic feeders?
your help would be really appretiated.
Well done mate. After all the stress of the past you can now spend your time making instead of fixing
Whats this magic double sided tape you use? Is it like solder tape or something. Much confusion
Just dbl sided 3m tape.
@@UnexpectedMaker Ah, I for some reason got the impression this was like a doubke sided tape version of solder paste which sounded amazing.
Day of awesomeness!
Congrat; how do you feel about it after about 4 weeks of using this machine, and do you recommend it. I'm thinking to buy one here in the US.
No stopping you now Seon !!!....
Electric feeder price for neo den 8 how much??
I know you keep knocking Charmhigh -- but you have not disclosed here that this machine is about 3X the cost of your older machine... Right? In fairness, you have upgraded to better equipment, and this is not an apples to apples comparison anymore. I think many of your parts are slightly off-center. You don't have fiducial markings on the board to line up on? Why not? What is your total cost for the machine and the feeders? Feeders are a big part of the price so, that is an important part of the investment. Are these proprietary NeoDen feeders? Or some industry standard?
my dream meshing bro...
You should do a side by side comparison
With what? The CHMT? That's never bring turn on again (by me) - ever ;)
@@UnexpectedMaker I'm sure you have plenty of videos of it not doing what it was supposed to do. But happy to hear this new investment is working out for you
Did you hve any trouble getting it Off the pallet without a fork truck?
I used a forklift to get it off. It can not be take off without sue form or lifting device.
@@UnexpectedMaker Thanks. Was confident for the K1830 @ 350kg could easily get this removed from the packing crate with only a couple of hand pallet trucks. Not so confident now with the N10 at 1 ton. :) We will sort something out though so we can do this at home (not the factory). Have a proper truck at work where it would have been a doddle.
its a money printing machine! ;) very happy for you mate hopefully you will be getting more quality sleep these days
К 1830 удивился они очень старые . Времён СССР. Погуглил - arduino IDE их программировать может до сих пор. А тут не микросхема а станок по их распайке 😂
do you have electric or pneumatic feeders ?
I'm currently running pneumatic for 12mm+ feeders and the hybrid electric/pneumatic for 8mm. I do have some 8mm fully electric here, but they are not being used yet.
@@UnexpectedMaker seems the pneumatic feeders are 4 times less expensive than the electric ones ( for 8 and 12mm) , then the price is the same after 16mm . ( or my chinese supplier made mistake on the quote )
@@Tupeutla Yes, electric are much more expensive than pneumatic.It comes down to what components you are wanting to feed. You can't reliably do small (0402 and similar size packages or below) with pneumatic unless it's a REALLY high end PnP, and then I'd still be going electric.
@@UnexpectedMaker we are talking about 250+ yankee dollars for 8 / 12 mm , right ? ;)
Amazing!
The difference is absolutely chalk and cheese.
Excellent. :-)
Not fantastic?
Looks great!
Looks fantastic. ;)
It's almost as if that company knows how to build PnP machines properly. lol
hello does anybody know about KAYO machines are they ok?
HA HA! nice to hear you happy and like you say with a few more tweaks it should be perfect, so much better than your charming charmhigh crap :-)
Hello can anybody help with xy intialize error?
Yay
All that time coming up with puns for “Neoden” waisted! Congratulations Seon!
Hahaha... go on, do it anyway!
Well. Philosophically you've helped out many by showing how poor Charmlow is. Tried the rest now try the best.
Oh how different. Looks, sounds and behaves as a professional machine, not the hair tearing "toy" disaster as the Charm****!#$#** was.
To have a first run come out as near perfect, before even making the typical optimisations is just great. That it is possible to get this result before really becoming familiar means it has few quirks and idosyncrosies.
The multihead and camera systems seem to be working especially well, and positioning seems to remain spot on, not drifting over time.
Not visible if any parts have skipped/fall down, which was one of the worst problems on th Ch.....
Now you will not be sweeping up a fortune of parts all the time. Also can likely get production running to a schedule and expect to keep to schedule, withour needing 24/7 observation and rework.
You are finally on the way,.
Wow what an impressive machine this Neoden is! Gratz on finally getting a worthwhile machine :)
Lol a thumbs down from ShamHigh no doubt!!
2 Failed components on the whole board!
So much better!