Watching this made me realize one of the funniest mechanisms of this series is how much Tim's character has changed and degraded over time, and how Gregg has undergone literally zero character change. He is the exact same person he was at the start of the show. The contrast between the two is hilarious.
I mean if you have a character who already exists as Perfection why would you have them develop at all they're more just a model and a frame of reference for the others
if gregg ever changes, we will know the end of times is near. stock up on rio jenesis while you can and get in your storm bunkers now. nuclear war is upon us
This is such a funny subject for them to argue over because it's so easy to verify. Like there's no possible way that two reasonable people could disagree on this, and yet they somehow manage to draw out the dispute for years, going to all possible lengths to prove themselves right but never actually just watching the film
@@GyroZeppel I think it's easy to see Tim as the crazy one and Gregg as the straight man so I appreciate that they managed to make Gregg just as unhinged
I love to imagine that they didn't explain *ANYTHING* to Nicholas Meyer ahead of time and just told him to answer the questions the way he would in a normal court room.
The fact that Tim said "It's a kangaroo court." with so little energy then immediately got passionate with Gregg about some fucking movie in a court room case is so funny to me
The best part imo is how Gregg starts giving his in depth opinions on the contents and truthfulness of the star trek novel which he had first seen 30 second ago.
“Kirk and his crew must travel, must time travel back 1986. Crew must Kirk. Kirk must true crew. Kirk AND his crew must time travel back to s-1986 San Francisco...” - The plot to Star Trek 2 and/or 4
I really like how Gregg cut loose with that "Klingon Cola" comment. He's a consummate professional but he's not afraid to push the envelope when the situation calls for it.
He likes to keep the show serious and movie-focused for us buffs, but will occasionally 'cut loose' with a witty bit of repartee, such as this subtle 'tip of the hat' to the Klingon empire.
I love how Gregg has the gall to disagree with the DIRECTOR OF THE FUCKING MOVIE about the plot of his own movie(in court, no less). That's not a film buff. that's a goddamn charlatan.
It's funny how he always weasles his way out if it by disproving the source. But in this case what had me cracking up was that the director said that San Francisco does appear in Wrath of Khan, and immediately Gregg pounces hahahahahahha. Genius writing from both Tim and Gregg
He had a point. They call Gregg in as a witness and then they call the director to try and discount Gregg’s credibility as a witness. Genius move on Tim’s part. Lol
@@mrfivegold yeah, but if he doesn’t know the difference between Star Trek 2 and 4. How can we be sure he’s credible in other matters such as the festival? How could we rely on his shady memory?
Your situation is understandable, with the shows focus being shifted from what its truly about (the movies) so often, its hard for the average movie goer to keep up All I'll say is this, who are you going to believe, a certified film buff, owner of one of the largest archives of VHS tapes possibly in the world, world record setter for 501 movies in 501 days...or tim heidecker
seems like Gregg is slowly but surely turning into some sort of VHS-obsessed supervillian. Almost like Vader, which I believe was inspired by the Decker TV series.
I love how Gregg argued that since the original "A Star is Born" is in the public domain, selling the Ryan Gosling one is completely legal, and Tim is legitimately concerned, and Mark ends up getting arrested because Gregg doesn't understand how public domain works
In his sworn testimony Nicholas Meyer states that no scene from Star Trek II was shot on location in San Francisco. But in fact the scene of Spock's funeral was filmed in San Francisco's Golden Gate Park. This scene was not in the original script written by Meyer -- it was added, against his objections, after test screenings.
My favorite part from Star Trek 4 was the part where Spock and The Dread Pirate Roberts escape from the minions of Lo Pan, and just end up destroying Miami because of all of the carnage that ensues.
The best part about all of this is that they could have simply rewatched these popcorn classics.. but instead, they allow years to go by with both parties refusing to budge.
I love how everyone flicks to Tim because he bulldozes everyone, HE IS A SCAM ARTIST open your eyes people this is all to discredit Gregg as a movie expert
This debate has ruined me. A friend will bring up star trek and I have the uncontrollable urge to tell them that star trek 2 is set in San Fran, not star trek 4
@@bigbodge while it is true that Star Trek II the wrath of Khan does feature a few scenes set in 2285 San Francisco, you’ll find that the movie Star Trek IV the voyage home is set almost entirely in San Francisco in the year 1986
@@feelsjeffman7787 A common misconception, especially if you listen to the wrong sources (Tim). In actual fact it is Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (runtime 2 hours) that is primarily set in San Francisco
As a true GREGGHEAD I will not tolerate any slander of Gregg the incredible movie buff and head of the VFA either today or in the future. In Gregg we trust.
What I love about this running joke is that Tim throughout the series is almost always wrong about film anecdotes and Gregg is almost always in the orbit of being right. However, in this case Tim is clearly right but Gregg just won’t give in.
San Francisco and indeed most things on Earth are well below the Karman line, the internationally recognised 100 km boundary of space. You're not going to "Gregg" your way out of this one!
Tim is always right gregg is a narcissistic sociopath who uses his nice guy persona to gaslight you. Gregg really crossed the line on this one especially when he forced tim, at the risk of imprisonment, to have the director testify in a court of law - but thats what happens when you push an honest man to the limit. Undeniable truth. You know tin doesnt even have to consider it undeniable because hes so honest to him its just the truth.
Greatest example of a long-running joke in *world history,* folks, from a legit PhD in history. Not as much of a doctor as Dr. San, but still I’ll stake my historian’s reputation on this.
But in Star Trek IV, they're no longer the crew of the Starship Enterprise. The Enterprise was destroyed in Star Trek III, and the eponymous voyage home takes place in the captured Klingon vessel that they rechristen the Bounty.
I've never seen Star Trek (my parents were straight) but I tend to agree with Tim on this one. Gregg might be right but I think it's more likely Tim is telling the truth and Gregg showed footage from Star Trek 4 instead of 2 which is a common misconception
Why would Tim even try to challenge Gregg's cinema expertise? As the president and custodian of the world-renowned Victorville Film Archives, he is universally respected and his knowledge is uncontested.
The fact that this star trek dilemma, carries on all the way to the trial. Where Tim supposedly has killed 19/20 ppl :P and he uses it to his favor, to discredit Greg as an expert witness. Is genious.
Greg you are lying. As a lifetime San Francisco resident I used to rent the VHS actually and go on my bicycle several miles during 4th through 7th grade and watch these videos at the library with the included headphones at the library I remember going home I would go past these places and go hey that's where the whole group of everybody didn't think I would be believing Tim here but yeah
I saw a special showing of Star Trek II in a theater last week, and I can say without doubt that it's not set in in San Francisco (except for the short scenes that Nicholas Meyer mentioned). CASE CLOSED!
I almost guarantee this started as a genuine discussion between the 2 and one of them was just like “which one is the wrath of khan”. Then they just decided to write it in into the show. Weird that they subverted it with Tim having the accurate Star Trek knowledge though, since Gregg is such a film head. The voyage home and wrath of khan being the best trek movies a movie expert like Gregg should know the truth.
Watching this made me realize one of the funniest mechanisms of this series is how much Tim's character has changed and degraded over time, and how Gregg has undergone literally zero character change. He is the exact same person he was at the start of the show. The contrast between the two is hilarious.
Except for Gregg’s neck
it's that kind of dependability that makes Gregg such a great film critic
Gregg's obsession and sad poverty of existence has been made more apparent through the show for sure... but his character is def more consistent haha.
I mean if you have a character who already exists as Perfection why would you have them develop at all they're more just a model and a frame of reference for the others
if gregg ever changes, we will know the end of times is near. stock up on rio jenesis while you can and get in your storm bunkers now. nuclear war is upon us
Sometimes I wonder if they built the whole trial around furthering this joke...
I wouldn't put it past them, quite frankly.
They did
It was to get Gregg under oath to commit perjury. Hook, line and sinker.
What do you mean by "joke"? It's a valid argument.
Sometimes I wonder if the original star trek movies were made around furthering this joke.
This is such a funny subject for them to argue over because it's so easy to verify. Like there's no possible way that two reasonable people could disagree on this, and yet they somehow manage to draw out the dispute for years, going to all possible lengths to prove themselves right but never actually just watching the film
The funnier part is that Gregg, the movie buff, is wrong and Tim, who never watches any of the movies they review, is right haha 😂
@@GyroZeppel I think it's easy to see Tim as the crazy one and Gregg as the straight man so I appreciate that they managed to make Gregg just as unhinged
Tim tellin the director that he's "being very vague" makes it even better
So who’s right?
@@greglinsmythe3375it’s obvious that in satr space 2 they go to San Fran and in 4 they go home to space
I love to imagine that they didn't explain *ANYTHING* to Nicholas Meyer ahead of time and just told him to answer the questions the way he would in a normal court room.
I love to imagine they told him this was a real trial.
hahahah Tim and Eric have a history of doing this, i wonder if this is the case
The fact that Tim said "It's a kangaroo court." with so little energy then immediately got passionate with Gregg about some fucking movie in a court room case is so funny to me
Their home is in space
They go back to space where they're from
He works in space. He’s from Idaho.
Iowa
I don’t think spock is from earth
The way Greg walks out from that corner at 4:11 and winks at the camera with that smug smile on his face always gets me
also gotta love the 5 seconds of black screen following it
@@lol-wc3ld The editing kills me. I love the double exposer moments lol
Scurries more like.
The best part imo is how Gregg starts giving his in depth opinions on the contents and truthfulness of the star trek novel which he had first seen 30 second ago.
I like to believe that 1 juror was so frustrated by Gregg’s refusal to admit he was wrong that he tanked the guilty verdict just to stick it to him
Toni Newman is a huge Star Wars 2 fan.
“Kirk and his crew must travel, must time travel back 1986. Crew must Kirk. Kirk must true crew. Kirk AND his crew must time travel back to s-1986 San Francisco...”
- The plot to Star Trek 2 and/or 4
Gregg is such a great guest he should be on every episode
Hes an ok guest for as infrequently hes on there
A lot of us On Cinema freaks consider Gregg the unofficial 2nd chair host of the series.
"cohost"
I really like how Gregg cut loose with that "Klingon Cola" comment. He's a consummate professional but he's not afraid to push the envelope when the situation calls for it.
Holy shit what a legendary comment lol
He likes to keep the show serious and movie-focused for us buffs, but will occasionally 'cut loose' with a witty bit of repartee, such as this subtle 'tip of the hat' to the Klingon empire.
The greatest debate since Lincoln v. Douglas
Lincoln vs Davis
@@sublimeadeLincoln vs. President Davison
I love how Gregg has the gall to disagree with the DIRECTOR OF THE FUCKING MOVIE about the plot of his own movie(in court, no less). That's not a film buff. that's a goddamn charlatan.
It's funny how he always weasles his way out if it by disproving the source. But in this case what had me cracking up was that the director said that San Francisco does appear in Wrath of Khan, and immediately Gregg pounces hahahahahahha. Genius writing from both Tim and Gregg
classic Timhead post
no one can question a buff ESPECIALLY a director
I love the director giving the most clear answers and tim calling him vague
Pretty sure Tim is right which is hilarious because he normally has no idea what he's talking about
And for being a movie review show they could easily just watch it together to figure it out lmao
The half-baked film expertise I’d expect from a “Tympathizer” or Timhedd. Maybe don’t spout off if you don’t actually *know* about the movies!
Tim is right, as usual. Gregg just doesn’t know when to stay in his lane.
@@nataliebolles Typical 'know-it-all' Gregg.....
Imagine killing 20 people to settle an argument.
19*
Objection speculative
Acquitted on all charges. Exonerated!
Yes Dr. San is cruel and petty like that
"Have you seen the hobbit?" BOOM gottem 5:45
Trump card. Ace in the hole. 🎯
Gregg settling arguments and taking names.
The fact that they went out and got the actual Nicholas Meyer is so funny
It’s hilarious Tim uses the trial about murder as an excuse to belittle Greg for being wrong about Star Trek films.
Hardcore Bunny Greg is little enough by himself
He had a point. They call Gregg in as a witness and then they call the director to try and discount Gregg’s credibility as a witness. Genius move on Tim’s part. Lol
@@crazydave507 Gregg was put on the stand to testify about the festival, not about movies.
@@mrfivegold yeah, but if he doesn’t know the difference between Star Trek 2 and 4. How can we be sure he’s credible in other matters such as the festival? How could we rely on his shady memory?
@@crazydave507 maybe but I think the jury would see it as petty.
In On Cinema, Tim can never be wrong & Greg is never actually right. They’re destined to fight for eternity.
Amazing comment
sort of sartre-esque
One of the few shows that both Tim and Greg both nearly break character.
It's getting to the point where I don't even know if I remember the movies correctly
I never seen any of them so I am torn on who to believe in this dispute. My head says Gregg but my heart says Tim
@@akeithing1841 tim
Your situation is understandable, with the shows focus being shifted from what its truly about (the movies) so often, its hard for the average movie goer to keep up
All I'll say is this, who are you going to believe, a certified film buff, owner of one of the largest archives of VHS tapes possibly in the world, world record setter for 501 movies in 501 days...or tim heidecker
You go to jail for piracy....even if it's a Star is Born
seems like Gregg is slowly but surely turning into some sort of VHS-obsessed supervillian. Almost like Vader, which I believe was inspired by the Decker TV series.
Gregg is right. You could never fit multiple movies into a book and expect it to have the same depth.
Especially movies with runtimes that are consistently over 100 minutes
Think of all the colors you see in movies! Except if it’s black and white movies from the classic days of Hollywood’s past.
1:57 Tim’s laughing fills me with such joy.
When they start talking to Sally Kellerman about this and they both start to break... man lol
... and Mark joins in on the schoolboy giggling fit.
"You can go to jail for piracy and you should." Little did he know that he was pronouncing Mark Proksch's fate here.
I love how Gregg argued that since the original "A Star is Born" is in the public domain, selling the Ryan Gosling one is completely legal, and Tim is legitimately concerned, and Mark ends up getting arrested because Gregg doesn't understand how public domain works
12:12 Just noticed Gregg's face in the background. He's so certain that he's about to get proven right
Greg’s debating skills are strong. All 4 movies in the one book.
"That old sort of argument"
And the debate continues... can't wait for the next mention of this by Gregg or tim!
It's mentioned very briefly in the newest Oscar Special lol. Tim: "We're not getting into that again"
In his sworn testimony Nicholas Meyer states that no scene from Star Trek II was shot on location in San Francisco. But in fact the scene of Spock's funeral was filmed in San Francisco's Golden Gate Park. This scene was not in the original script written by Meyer -- it was added, against his objections, after test screenings.
There wasn't any scene at Golden Gate Park, you looney Gregghead.
My favorite part from Star Trek 4 was the part where Spock and The Dread Pirate Roberts escape from the minions of Lo Pan, and just end up destroying Miami because of all of the carnage that ensues.
Objection, relevance?
7:42 the subtle popcorn sounds while tim is raging are hilarious
The best part about all of this is that they could have simply rewatched these popcorn classics..
but instead, they allow years to go by with both parties refusing to budge.
I'm not really sure how all the Timsters out there can deny the strong evidence from 3:55 - 4:30. It's quite compelling.
They are pathetic deniers clinging to their fantasy of knowing film and the movie world.
Timheads belong to a dangerous cult based on rejection of reality. Sad!
I love how everyone flicks to Tim because he bulldozes everyone, HE IS A SCAM ARTIST open your eyes people this is all to discredit Gregg as a movie expert
when he segways into the star trek argument during the trial, I lost it lol
This debate has ruined me. A friend will bring up star trek and I have the uncontrollable urge to tell them that star trek 2 is set in San Fran, not star trek 4
it’s star trek 4, not star trek 2
@@feelsjeffman7787 Check again my friend, it's Star Trek 2. All buffs know this
@@bigbodge while it is true that Star Trek II the wrath of Khan does feature a few scenes set in 2285 San Francisco, you’ll find that the movie Star Trek IV the voyage home is set almost entirely in San Francisco in the year 1986
@@feelsjeffman7787 A common misconception, especially if you listen to the wrong sources (Tim). In actual fact it is Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (runtime 2 hours) that is primarily set in San Francisco
@@bigbodge are you willing to repeat that statement in a court of law?
History will not remember gregg kindly.
They will remember him lovingly as a film fanatic and expert who gives amazing cinematic analysis, tim is a murdering scam artist
As a true GREGGHEAD I will not tolerate any slander of Gregg the incredible movie buff and head of the VFA either today or in the future. In Gregg we trust.
"Can you repeat that, bc we had an outburst here."
Did they ever manage to get to the bottom of this one? Perhaps it will just be one of those unanswerable questions.
I love how Tun used the court as a platform to ‘win’ the argument
Yeah Tun is one of my fav Star Trek characters
RIP Tun.
What I love about this running joke is that Tim throughout the series is almost always wrong about film anecdotes and Gregg is almost always in the orbit of being right. However, in this case Tim is clearly right but Gregg just won’t give in.
Just goes to show that when you have defence arguments like Time Heidecker in them, you CANT lose!
I wish I could own this entire show on DVD.
The quality wouldn't be as good as if it were on multiple VHS's
Scrolling down and giving everyone a like.
Case closed. #greggknows
The Hobbit Defense.
San Francisco is in space. EVERYTHING is in space.
Lol holy shit you're right
San Francisco and indeed most things on Earth are well below the Karman line, the internationally recognised 100 km boundary of space. You're not going to "Gregg" your way out of this one!
Best yet.
lol 5:48 "have you seen The Hobbit?"
"We had an outburst over there"
Greg and his security codes.
Skooter623 every respectable archivist uses a coding system
And all they’d have to do is just put the tape into a VCR 😂
As long as it's not a bootleg copy
You should make a Oscar special compilation of Greg’s specials
[out of character] Tim is actually right for once right?
Tim is always right gregg is a narcissistic sociopath who uses his nice guy persona to gaslight you. Gregg really crossed the line on this one especially when he forced tim, at the risk of imprisonment, to have the director testify in a court of law - but thats what happens when you push an honest man to the limit. Undeniable truth. You know tin doesnt even have to consider it undeniable because hes so honest to him its just the truth.
[in character] No!
I just noticed that Greg walks out the moment before the director gives the best answer.
CASE
CLOSED
But can you convince Tim of that? Sadly, no.
gregg's logic for the star trek book would mean the first star trek was 50 pages long.
this show will go down as the ultimate comedic masterpiece of the 21st century.
Didn’t include the podcast clip, the true origin of this great debate
I love this 😂 reminds me of arguments I have with my brother constantly.
It started in the podcast
No, San Francisco.
I guess we'll never know...
its crazy how underrated this show is
This one's for the Malaysian Pirated VHS-heads
It took 20 people dying to settle this debate
11:15 incredible
13:19 Gregg Turkington is an absolute legend LMAO
Jefferson Airplane 🍿🍿🍿🍿 Jefferson Starship 🍿🍿Starship 🍿
Gregg’s reviewing the Star Trek book got me 😂😂😂
Greatest example of a long-running joke in *world history,* folks, from a legit PhD in history. Not as much of a doctor as Dr. San, but still I’ll stake my historian’s reputation on this.
"Have you seen The Hobbit?"
the only time gregg has ever been wrong
Litterally just googled it and it makes this joke so much funnier cos they go to san francisco in both XD
"... huh?" 8:33
1:56 Tim giggling😂
But in Star Trek IV, they're no longer the crew of the Starship Enterprise. The Enterprise was destroyed in Star Trek III, and the eponymous voyage home takes place in the captured Klingon vessel that they rechristen the Bounty.
non-kayfabe i still wanna know what sparked them on this gag, it always comes off like it was specifically based off something lol
This is what started it all ua-cam.com/video/4_Oj73CXPK8/v-deo.html I still want to know who is right lol
@@boredwarlock5216 aha thanks, i didnt hear this episode of it
@@boredwarlock5216 It started way back on an episode of Poolside Chats w/ Neil Hamburger circa 2006.
@@boredwarlock5216 tim
“It’s gonna be somewhere around page 59”
So which Star Trek movie took place in San Francisco?
holy fuck that guy made the day after??
I've never seen Star Trek (my parents were straight) but I tend to agree with Tim on this one. Gregg might be right but I think it's more likely Tim is telling the truth and Gregg showed footage from Star Trek 4 instead of 2 which is a common misconception
Why would Tim even try to challenge Gregg's cinema expertise? As the president and custodian of the world-renowned Victorville Film Archives, he is universally respected and his knowledge is uncontested.
The fact that this star trek dilemma, carries on all the way to the trial. Where Tim supposedly has killed 19/20 ppl :P and he uses it to his favor, to discredit Greg as an expert witness. Is genious.
Ive never seen either movie but it's obvious Star Trek 2 was set and filmed in San Francisco. I'm a film buff
How many star trek movies take place in San Francisco: 2 or 4?
I love when gregg breaks :D
LOL...the age old Star Trek controversy....
Greg you are lying. As a lifetime San Francisco resident I used to rent the VHS actually and go on my bicycle several miles during 4th through 7th grade and watch these videos at the library with the included headphones at the library I remember going home I would go past these places and go hey that's where the whole group of everybody didn't think I would be believing Tim here but yeah
They're both wrong Star Trek 2 is actually pronounced the wrath of Chan
I saw a special showing of Star Trek II in a theater last week, and I can say without doubt that it's not set in in San Francisco (except for the short scenes that Nicholas Meyer mentioned). CASE CLOSED!
I almost guarantee this started as a genuine discussion between the 2 and one of them was just like “which one is the wrath of khan”. Then they just decided to write it in into the show. Weird that they subverted it with Tim having the accurate Star Trek knowledge though, since Gregg is such a film head. The voyage home and wrath of khan being the best trek movies a movie expert like Gregg should know the truth.
CMO Sistine Chapel
You notice that after the brain tumour is removed, Tim begins to slowly become more unhinged and aggressive
Its a kangaroo court!
It’s always BEEN a kangaroo court !
i had to fill up my chocolate milk and pipe 2 times. not much ov a popcorn fan so cant do the inflation and money change over...
Tim is 100% CORRECT on this issue!!!!
Sagittarius and Aquarius it never fails lmao