I’m currently a Full Stack Engineer thinking of pivoting to a Product Management/Project Coordinator role. You hit everything right on the nail with this video and it inspired me to keep going after a role that makes me truly happy. Looking forward to absorbing more content from you, Rachel! Thank you for sharing!
As someone who also felt like a straight developer role wasn't for her, I loved this! It's definitely not right for everyone. Glad you found something that made you happier!
I watched a couple of your videos and I love how concise and clear you are! I am also considering switching to PM, and I guess I should be more vocal about what I want..but it's not so easy because my bosses are very quiet and kind of hard to talk to..but I shall try again..!! Excited to see more of your videos in the future and hope you have fun on your journey as a PM!
I thought about this many times, But i don't know why my mind is drifting towards product management. I kind of like think i should be sitting in the board room making better decisions than writing codes i don't even know the business parts. Thank God it's all beginning to make sense to me now.
Oh i have the same feeling now, its been 8 years, nobody thanks your work, you cant make any decision just people tell you what to do and do not. I hate it and now im nowhere with this background. I do a master degree in computer science. My work is not visible nobody see how much efforts i put in it but spend weekends working on it and nobody see it. I dont know what to do with this, or either i switch to Data analysis
Could you please give us your product management reading picks? I just saw Inspired and Shape Up on your bookshelf and I am so curious! 😊 (Also, your video is so inspiring... i am going through a similar experience and currently doing a part time MBA alongside my software engineering job to help in the transition ❤)
I am exactly at the same junction. I have been working as a Software engineer for no of years but now I am ready to pivot my career toward Product Manager. I feel that having the in-depth technical knowledge of the Tech stack can give me an edge as a Product Manager. Can someone share an advice on how to land my 1st position as a Product Manager/Owner. My resume is full of Software engineering positions and I lost my position recently during a round of lay-offs at my firm. All the new positions that I am offered are for the SE positions and not Product Management. Does completing a few Product Owner certificate along with Scrum/Agile certificate helps in this endeavor. What are your thoughts ?
I am on the other side of the fence. I work in product and I want to transition to software engineering. The product role is very stressful and the life/work balance not always the best. I always felt that the developers are the actual heroes. I am a bit conflicted when I read all the posts.🤔
Haha. Im a developer. Good luck trying to learn all of the frameworks, all the new languages, all the new libraries. dont even get me started with whiteboard and/or leetcode interviews. It is not uncommon to work past 5pm. I cant wait to switch out of coding.
@@ioana4011 agreed. Both sides think the other side has it better haha. I read a reddit post where the guy says he switches between dev work and management every 4 years because he gets tired of them after a while lol
In general for most countries,the ratio of female in product management or BA/QA roles seems to be higher than a developer role. I think for many females they don't like how malecentric developer enviroment tend to be and how it limits their growth.I mean when is the last time you hear a female CTO or female team lead?In my case never but I do hear a lot within the more business and design part of a company. No matter how talented a female developer is,I always find they want to get out of developer enviroment as fast as they can. The irony here is that most of my lecturers for comp sci in university are females.Makes you think..
@@never_give_up944 It is not political/gender-equality sound bite. Half of my comp sci lecturers have been female but you dont see this reflected in the workforce. Have you never question why that is?
@@stardust2045 The medical industry has more women than men. The garbage collection industry is composed predominantly of men. Have you never questions why that is?
I'm going to start a new position as a Product manager next Monday within the same company from a sr data analyst, so I hope I will do well there, I don't like coding Do you have any videos on the salary range for the product manager? How does it compare to being a data engineer?
Congrats to your new role! You don't have to be an expert in all these different fields, you just need to understand what gives value to the customer and manage your team to get there. This is the emphasis on this (recommended) book I just finished: "Build What Matters" by Foster and Nerlikar. Quote: "Many of the best product managers have little formal experience in product management, no certifications or advanced degrees, no prior exposure of the domain (...) The ones who succeed are the ones self-directed and motivated to learn everything they need, ask the right questions, take accountability for outcomes, and refuse to quit." They give an example of a complete PM greenhorn who hit it out of the park, because "his intense curiosity was his superpower." Good luck on your new journey!
software engineers are the scapegoats of the industry. all pressure and blame goes to them and all praise and credit goes to sales marketing and product managers. the only saving grace is the pay (sometimes)
You make some great points :). I had a very similar path (and pains) and was able to switch to a product owner role after four years of working as a software engineer in my current company. Strangely, a lot of female developers I know say from the get go, that they don’t want to code forever, but get into a more managerial role after a few years. Interesting why that is … I don't hear it much from the male devs around me. Tldr; Sadly, for me, the switch to PO did not work out - partially due to the way the company limited the role. I have more responsibility and leverage for decisions, yes - but instead of being a “code monkey”, I now spent a good chunk of my time being the “requirements monkey” for the developers - which is not what I envisioned 😅... Long story short: I think it’s important to really make sure the role you’re getting into (and the company) is actually able to provide what you’re looking for. But, as you kinda said: You really don’t know it until you’re in it. .. I was only able to pinpoint what I really love to do (which is mainly business strategy and user experience), after I worked in my current role for a while and realized that it missed the mark. That's why I'll transition to a more versatile role in another company soon. The more of an all-rounder (or multitalented 😬) you are, the more difficult it will be to find something that really fits, and you'll always have to do a bit of trial and error I guess. (sorry for the novel ✌)
It's interesting to hear that a lot of female devs start off knowing they want to pivot to management in a few years. I haven't heard that before. But I totally agree, jobs and careers take a bit of trial and error.
"the more of an all-rounder (or multitalented 😬) you are, the more difficult it will be to find something that really fits, and you'll always have to do a bit of trial and error I guess." this is so true, I find myself struggling with it all the time. I think we can start by filtering things which we are not good at or have no interest in working on and on the other hand start with things that we are really confident or excited about. Thanks for sharing
Mam i completed graduation and planning to do masters in IT from Australia... And am planning to take major which make me a project manager ... but am not good in English will i fit for this job or i will suffer? and which course will be better to become IT project manager and what are the skills i need to acquire? Hope u reply soon thank you
so great to meet a fellow product manager newb! 👋🏼it's my 5th month as one and I still feel like I've learned 3% of the thousand things I need to learn. you've reaised great points and I'm super curious to hear more about your stories! as for me, i'm still deciding on which app to use to track everything: Notion or Obsidian lol (that's how I stumbled upon your channel!)
I've been working as a software engineer for roughly 4 years now and stumbled upon an internal opening for PO role where they're interested in me. I'm so confused if it's too early to pivot to such roles given my career as SWE began thankfully by grinding on my own without even having a CS degree. I am confused how solid and well paid product career is compared to SWE in the long run?
I've been a developer for good 9 years, and I hate it to the point I started thinking to go study and get into more manual labor job.. but now our product architect (like a PM for one team) is leaving for 6 months and I'm going to cover for her, with some prospects of fully transitioning to product later. Super excited! I was previously involved into tasks PM does and I always liked it a lot more than looking at code 😅
hmhm... 1. I guess, telling 'don't think, just do' is totally inappropriate. PM does not know everything to say this way, also it is a breaking point for those who implement. Hope you are not that way of PM. 2. also in my understanding of PM role, the person should learn a lot, new patterns and approaches and dig deep enough to do something herself/himself as POC for example, without or with minimal help of engineer. Hope to see you are happy with the new role/career.
I'm going to school for Software development and I have discovered that I really don't enjoy coding. I'm not that bad at it but I don't really get excited for it.
Congrats on getting into Product! It can def be a challenging professions and does require a lot of time to deeply think about the problems you're looking to solve.
I really like how you've structured your video, and how you laid out the reasons why you didn't like your previous carreer. As a developer, I have definitely felt that what I do doesn't matter. Luckily, my current job is very engaging, and I do get to have a say on why and how things are done. I'm actually intrigued about project management. The questions you say that interest you are the kinds of questions I love to ask so as to steer what we do to the right direction, be more productive, and actually reach objectives. I seem to find myself both enjoying those aspects as well as the programming/technical part. My carreer hasn't been going for very long, so there's a lot for me to discover regarding my professional role.
Depending on the company you work for, you might be able to do both! I've definitely had that experience and enjoyed it. The only thing I'd watch out for is being overworked, I was lucky not to experience that.
I’m currently a Full Stack Engineer thinking of pivoting to a Product Management/Project Coordinator role. You hit everything right on the nail with this video and it inspired me to keep going after a role that makes me truly happy. Looking forward to absorbing more content from you, Rachel! Thank you for sharing!
Yay! I'm so glad you found it helpful!
As someone who also felt like a straight developer role wasn't for her, I loved this! It's definitely not right for everyone. Glad you found something that made you happier!
Yes! I'm really grateful I was able to pivot into something that still uses many of the skills I learned as a developer.
I watched a couple of your videos and I love how concise and clear you are! I am also considering switching to PM, and I guess I should be more vocal about what I want..but it's not so easy because my bosses are very quiet and kind of hard to talk to..but I shall try again..!! Excited to see more of your videos in the future and hope you have fun on your journey as a PM!
I am in this exact situation omg. I know in my gut I need to change for my own mental health!
I thought about this many times,
But i don't know why my mind is drifting towards product management.
I kind of like think i should be sitting in the board room making better decisions than writing codes i don't even know the business parts.
Thank God it's all beginning to make sense to me now.
Oh i have the same feeling now, its been 8 years, nobody thanks your work, you cant make any decision just people tell you what to do and do not. I hate it and now im nowhere with this background. I do a master degree in computer science. My work is not visible nobody see how much efforts i put in it but spend weekends working on it and nobody see it. I dont know what to do with this, or either i switch to Data analysis
Could you please give us your product management reading picks? I just saw Inspired and Shape Up on your bookshelf and I am so curious! 😊
(Also, your video is so inspiring... i am going through a similar experience and currently doing a part time MBA alongside my software engineering job to help in the transition ❤)
I am exactly at the same junction. I have been working as a Software engineer for no of years but now I am ready to pivot my career toward Product Manager. I feel that having the in-depth technical knowledge of the Tech stack can give me an edge as a Product Manager. Can someone share an advice on how to land my 1st position as a Product Manager/Owner. My resume is full of Software engineering positions and I lost my position recently during a round of lay-offs at my firm. All the new positions that I am offered are for the SE positions and not Product Management. Does completing a few Product Owner certificate along with Scrum/Agile certificate helps in this endeavor. What are your thoughts ?
I’m on the way from SE to PM. Did you do any course in the beginning?!
Is that like SEO?
I am on the other side of the fence. I work in product and I want to transition to software engineering. The product role is very stressful and the life/work balance not always the best. I always felt that the developers are the actual heroes. I am a bit conflicted when I read all the posts.🤔
Haha. Im a developer. Good luck trying to learn all of the frameworks, all the new languages, all the new libraries. dont even get me started with whiteboard and/or leetcode interviews. It is not uncommon to work past 5pm. I cant wait to switch out of coding.
@@novanoskillz4151 I guess grass always looks greener on the other side 😅
@@ioana4011 agreed. Both sides think the other side has it better haha. I read a reddit post where the guy says he switches between dev work and management every 4 years because he gets tired of them after a while lol
This is exactly what I am scared of. Not enjoying development and returning to product after investing so much.
Can't really fully win 😅
In general for most countries,the ratio of female in product management or BA/QA roles seems to be higher than a developer role. I think for many females they don't like how malecentric developer enviroment tend to be and how it limits their growth.I mean when is the last time you hear a female CTO or female team lead?In my case never but I do hear a lot within the more business and design part of a company. No matter how talented a female developer is,I always find they want to get out of developer enviroment as fast as they can. The irony here is that most of my lecturers for comp sci in university are females.Makes you think..
You should dig deeper instead of regurgitating political/ gender-equality sound bites.
@@never_give_up944 It is not political/gender-equality sound bite. Half of my comp sci lecturers have been female but you dont see this reflected in the workforce. Have you never question why that is?
@@stardust2045 The medical industry has more women than men. The garbage collection industry is composed predominantly of men. Have you never questions why that is?
OpenAI CTO is a woman 🤷♂️
Ya blame your incompetence also on men. Fkng hell, when will this stop?? 😢
I'm going to start a new position as a Product manager next Monday within the same company from a sr data analyst, so I hope I will do well there, I don't like coding Do you have any videos on the salary range for the product manager? How does it compare to being a data engineer?
That's so exciting! Congratulations! I don't have any videos on salary right now, but that's a pretty good idea.
Congrats to your new role!
You don't have to be an expert in all these different fields, you just need to understand what gives value to the customer and manage your team to get there. This is the emphasis on this (recommended) book I just finished: "Build What Matters" by Foster and Nerlikar.
Quote: "Many of the best product managers have little formal experience in product management, no certifications or advanced degrees, no prior exposure of the domain (...) The ones who succeed are the ones self-directed and motivated to learn everything they need, ask the right questions, take accountability for outcomes, and refuse to quit."
They give an example of a complete PM greenhorn who hit it out of the park, because "his intense curiosity was his superpower."
Good luck on your new journey!
Thank you! Sounds like a good book. I'll need to check it out!
software engineers are the scapegoats of the industry. all pressure and blame goes to them and all praise and credit goes to sales marketing and product managers. the only saving grace is the pay (sometimes)
You make some great points :). I had a very similar path (and pains) and was able to switch to a product owner role after four years of working as a software engineer in my current company.
Strangely, a lot of female developers I know say from the get go, that they don’t want to code forever, but get into a more managerial role after a few years. Interesting why that is … I don't hear it much from the male devs around me.
Tldr;
Sadly, for me, the switch to PO did not work out - partially due to the way the company limited the role. I have more responsibility and leverage for decisions, yes - but instead of being a “code monkey”, I now spent a good chunk of my time being the “requirements monkey” for the developers - which is not what I envisioned 😅...
Long story short:
I think it’s important to really make sure the role you’re getting into (and the company) is actually able to provide what you’re looking for. But, as you kinda said: You really don’t know it until you’re in it. ..
I was only able to pinpoint what I really love to do (which is mainly business strategy and user experience), after I worked in my current role for a while and realized that it missed the mark. That's why I'll transition to a more versatile role in another company soon.
The more of an all-rounder (or multitalented 😬) you are, the more difficult it will be to find something that really fits, and you'll always have to do a bit of trial and error I guess.
(sorry for the novel ✌)
It's interesting to hear that a lot of female devs start off knowing they want to pivot to management in a few years. I haven't heard that before. But I totally agree, jobs and careers take a bit of trial and error.
"the more of an all-rounder (or multitalented 😬) you are, the more difficult it will be to find something that really fits, and you'll always have to do a bit of trial and error I guess."
this is so true, I find myself struggling with it all the time. I think we can start by filtering things which we are not good at or have no interest in working on and on the other hand start with things that we are really confident or excited about. Thanks for sharing
Mam i completed graduation and planning to do masters in IT from Australia... And am planning to take major which make me a project manager ... but am not good in English will i fit for this job or i will suffer? and which course will be better to become IT project manager and what are the skills i need to acquire? Hope u reply soon thank you
so great to meet a fellow product manager newb! 👋🏼it's my 5th month as one and I still feel like I've learned 3% of the thousand things I need to learn. you've reaised great points and I'm super curious to hear more about your stories!
as for me, i'm still deciding on which app to use to track everything: Notion or Obsidian lol (that's how I stumbled upon your channel!)
Hello! I eventually just started using the application/s my company uses. Made things much easier for me. More stories coming soon!
I've been working as a software engineer for roughly 4 years now and stumbled upon an internal opening for PO role where they're interested in me. I'm so confused if it's too early to pivot to such roles given my career as SWE began thankfully by grinding on my own without even having a CS degree. I am confused how solid and well paid product career is compared to SWE in the long run?
You just took the words right out of my mouth. Great video
Ohhhhh tinuturo sa Finance ang python?
Welcome to Product Management! I also used to do SWE work! Hoping it’s all going well for you now! 😊
I love it! Glad I made the switch!
I've been a developer for good 9 years, and I hate it to the point I started thinking to go study and get into more manual labor job.. but now our product architect (like a PM for one team) is leaving for 6 months and I'm going to cover for her, with some prospects of fully transitioning to product later. Super excited! I was previously involved into tasks PM does and I always liked it a lot more than looking at code 😅
hmhm...
1. I guess, telling 'don't think, just do' is totally inappropriate. PM does not know everything to say this way, also it is a breaking point for those who implement. Hope you are not that way of PM.
2. also in my understanding of PM role, the person should learn a lot, new patterns and approaches and dig deep enough to do something herself/himself as POC for example, without or with minimal help of engineer.
Hope to see you are happy with the new role/career.
I'm going to school for Software development and I have discovered that I really don't enjoy coding. I'm not that bad at it but I don't really get excited for it.
Congrats on getting into Product! It can def be a challenging professions and does require a lot of time to deeply think about the problems you're looking to solve.
I feel that engineering can be hard for women, because it can be lonely and to focused on the technical,
rather than the people and the why.
or you are not good enough
Awesome video! Do you think it is possible to land PM role without any experince in Software Engineering?
Absolutely! Plenty of amazing PMs come from a variety of backgrounds. It's all about leveraging your experience.
I really like how you've structured your video, and how you laid out the reasons why you didn't like your previous carreer.
As a developer, I have definitely felt that what I do doesn't matter. Luckily, my current job is very engaging, and I do get to have a say on why and how things are done.
I'm actually intrigued about project management. The questions you say that interest you are the kinds of questions I love to ask so as to steer what we do to the right direction, be more productive, and actually reach objectives. I seem to find myself both enjoying those aspects as well as the programming/technical part. My carreer hasn't been going for very long, so there's a lot for me to discover regarding my professional role.
Depending on the company you work for, you might be able to do both! I've definitely had that experience and enjoyed it. The only thing I'd watch out for is being overworked, I was lucky not to experience that.
This video is very useful! I got practical imformation for my career! Thank you~
btw I wonder what your mbti is. i guess... may be ENTJ? 😂
I don't think I have ever said "omg same" to myself so many times when watching a video 😂
░p░r░o░m░o░s░m░ 🤭