@@sevourn Pretty sure it wasn't the gains that killed him, just sayin. The point where your body can't add mass without causing unacceptable damage is an individual decision. But I doubt many people ever reach that point.
@@hebertfamilywellnesscenter6585 well if you're pretty sure of that, you're most likely speaking from a place of ignorance. Are you aware upon autopsy his heart was double the weight of an average heart? Are you familiar with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy/heart failure with preserved ejection fraction? Do you know the pathophysiology behind it? Heart is forced to pump blood through more miles of blood vessel than any normal heart would have to. In the average American this is caused by hundreds of pounds of fat, but guess what requires much more perfusion, and thus many more miles of blood vessels than fat? Yes, muscle. In response to radically increased workload, walls and septum of heart hypertrophy. This makes the heart stiff, and it no longer properly fills with blood fed from inferior vena cava. The cardiac hypertrophy is further exacerbated by long term exposure to anabolic steroids. Now that heart can't fill, and can no longer meet the immense demand of a 300 lb muscle body, heart is no longer able to perfuse itself. Heart dies, person dies immediately after. His cause of death was textbook heart failure with preserved ejection fraction, most common cause of death in America. Gains did indeed kill him. It's not a thing that is up for debate, it is established fact.
This is the truest video ever. When I started training 4 years ago I was 6' 155lbs. I discovered powerlifting very early on and I was just doing SBD with very high intensity and low volume. I gained some strength. Then in the 2nd-3rd year of training I looked at every one else and noticed despite me being the same strength as others I was skinny like 6"2 175lbs. So I decided to do follow some powerbuilding plan that was super high volume. Within 16 weeks my squat blew tf up from 325-405lbs. I gained some 15 pounds from the program from just training at higher volumes. Even now I really train for most of the year with a volume focus to gain more muscle then max out maybe 2-3 times a year. I'm currently sitting at 210 and pushing towards filling out the 220lbs/100kg class. Great vid
Now I am considering to follow similar approach. I am doing low volume training and mainly focusing 4-5 main lifts. Although strength gains were good, but not very shocking at all. But I didn't gain muscle size despite strength.
Over half of my nephew's class are excused phys ed. There are now a lot of kids in powerlifting who have legit NEVER done any other sport, not even at school, not even phys ed. So, of course, they think powerlifting is the toughest sport (this is not helped by equipped guys talking about PL as if it's trans-universal alien bounty-hunting).
yeah powerlifting is probably the easiest sport. you could be a fat couch potato but be good at powerlifting after a couple of months of training. it's just 3 simplistic movement patterns
The most annoying thing about powerlifting is how everyone preaches how it's the best way to gain size, I thought they must be right, then I watched IPF worlds, and the vast majority of lifters looked DYEL while lifting very impressive weights. The most notorious place for this is r/Fitness, they shove strength programs down every new inexperienced lifter and tell them it'll make them big if they just get strong. Then they'll use a jacked powerlifter as an example that it works, ignoring the fact the majority of powerlifters look like dogshit.
@@AlexanderBromley that's just not true, i do almost all SBD, very little accessory work, and i look much, much better than you. For looks, you need:. Program that isn't pants on head retarded, consistent high effort over years/decades, low bodyfat. The minutiae of programming aren't a factor.
I'm glad I realized that early on and shifted to "powerbuilding". I have no desire to compete and most people I encounter in life will never see me deadlift something anyway but they'll notice big arms and shoulders every time.
The “must not gain weight” relative strength fallacy is absolutely rampant in calisthenics. It’s understandable because it’s heavily focused on relative strength, but people are just completely wrong about how this works. Within the realistic muscle gaining range for almost every redditor, more muscle means more relative strength in almost all cases. But people really think they’re going to indefinitely progress “skills” with sets of 3 at 101% effort, then wonder why they get overuse injuries and plateau for literally years.
I did the math 7 years ago or so, and adding up all the world, national, and state records (just for the united states feds) and all of their sub categories, there were more records to be had than actual lifters. I've gotten state records that I didn't even know about until years later when someone else showed me lmao.
Over specialization was the main reason I had left the Ohio State powerlifting club. Their programming was tailored towards more advanced lifters, while their off-season programming was only a few months out of the year, and even that was specific, boring, and pretty low volume. It’s worth noting that many members were fairly new to lifting in general, yet they get thrown right into meet prep mode. They were great people, just too focused on developing the peak. I decided to switch to your Bullmastiff program which I’ve been using for a year. Needless to say my base is WAY better now, as well as my work capacity and muscle imbalances. And it’s simply more fun.
In France, a powerlifting team thinks like that. They only do SBD at low volume and they claim that it's enough to become huge and strong. They also say that with only sbd you can have all the muscle mass that you want. Of course they are on gear but they claim to be natty. A real cancer.
I like your base building approach. I know I'm going to be building my base for years to come, and I might not bother doing anything resembling a peaking process (no desire to compete). I've built most of what I have on sets of 8-12. Just flat out works. Over the years, adding strength is just a byproduct of adding a rep here and there and occasionally some weight to the bar.
Not a bad approach but I think you're shortchanging your gains. There's a huge difference in pushing a 8-12 rep max and a 3 rep max, I think it would be beneficial to do a "peak" cycle once in a while (training heavier for 6-8 weeks leading up to a 5RM). I'm pretty sure you'd gain strength a bit faster.
@@Gus-Moose Oh, totally. I definitely use sets of 5 (especially with lifts I consider weaker). I just tend to spend the majority of my sets in the 8-12 range for compounds. When things get a little stale, I'll work in a different range than I'm used to. Could be 5s, could be 15s. Haven't really worked compounds in the 20+ rep range though...
I have been competing in powerlifting at state level on and off for over 30 years. In that time I raised a family and had a career. Powerlifting let's you do that. You can be strong, in relative good shape and still have a life. I will agree with you though that cardio and diet are very important and it is often overlooked. At the last meet I was in, I was talking to another lifter over 50 and he made a comment on how many out of shape "athletes " were there. I couldn't agree more.
Absolutely accurate. As someone whos a novice/intermediate 'powerbuilder', I feel discouraged when I see powerlifters 20kilos below my weightclass lifting more than I do and therefore feel like I am lacking 'skill' and 'technique', and I'd even want to diet down to a lower weight class just so I can feel better about my lifts.
If people 40+ pounds less than you are lifting more than you, you are indeed lacking skill and technique, and getting fat won't fix that problem. I don't know why you're putting those words in quotes like it's some kind of debatable subject. You probably SHOULD diet down, you'll live a lot longer, and it doesn't sound like you're going to be breaking any records either way.
I remember walking around the gym in college and noticing all the guys who did the power lifts (myself included) were way smaller than the bros doing dumbbell work
You’re absolutely spot on. At my last meet I was one of the only ones who had decent size on his frame. You could see these guys did nothing but low rep strength work. My meet prep program actually consists of high volume the first 4 weeks with a build and peaking phase. When I’m not prepping for a meet, I do a program that’s similar to the first 4 weeks. I usually work in weights 67.5, 70, 72.5 and 75 percent of my max for tons of volume. Correlation between size of prime movers and strength is a real thing.
Yeah I seen that I did my first unsanctioned local meet last month. I’m 36 and had more size one my frame than most of the 20 something year olds. Lol and I out totaled most of them.
You don't get an award for size at a powerlifting meet. It's like saying you were the only guy who could dance when you went to a wrestling tournament. Did your size get you best lifter? What was your wilks? Let's see that openpowerlifting page captain mass.
@@sevourn bro. Did you even watch the video? Did you even see Bromleys point? Maybe you should actually watch the video, as opposed to spitting off at the mouth and completely misconstruing what I said. There’s a lot of study’s that point out size of prime movers means more strength. While yes, you’re not judged in a Speedo at a powerlifting competition, having more muscle will help your total. And if I gotta link you over to Matt Venas channel where he shows these studies I will. My god, the internet never ceases to fucking amaze me
@@stephenstathis4 yes, i did. More muscle means higher totals. Duh. No argument there. Totals don't win powerlifting competitions. Wilks and DOTS scores win competitions. If you want to link me to studies showing that high muscle mass increases wilks/DOTS I'm all eyes. From a practical health and longevity standpoint, carrying a huge amount of muscle mass is in most ways as bad as carrying a lot of fat. In a few ways it is actually worse. Then on top of that it doesn't actually even make you more likely to win the competition. I don't know what competitions you attend, but i see the opposite problems. I see mostly 35-45 year old prematurely aged Peter Griffins who use powerlifting as an excuse to be obese. They think they are athletes because they can bench 350 at a bodyweight of 275 but can't make it up a flight of stairs. Meanwhile I'm outtotalling them at a bodyweight of 165 and i can actually move around like a human being.
@@sevourn I agree with you on one thing, too much muscle being as bad as carrying around too much fat. You have to be athletic, and be able to move well. I’m 215, I’ve naturally been on the taller, bigger side. But I’m also proficient In calesthenics, yoga and cardio. You brought up a very interesting fact also. Yes Wilks and DOTs have a play in winning competitions, but if you have an already high score adding a few lbs of muscle may take you higher. So all in all, I agree with you on a few key points and brought a good debate to the table. There is definitely a carry over between muscle/dots/wilks. My wilks is 339, my DOTS is 343. I placed third in my weight class my last meet which was untested, and I’m a natty lifter. So that point alone holds up your end of the argument
At this point, powerlifting is giving all of strength a bad name for muscle building. There's a resurgence of people claiming that training for strength isn't good for hypertrophy because they conflate powerlifting with strength.
Bodybuilders who acheive the professional bodybuilding physique standard and then die because 320 pounds of muscle is all but incompatible with life give strength sports a bad name. Powerlifting gives people realistic goals and a reason to get in the gym.
@@sevourn That's enhanced, competitive bodybuilding, not the simple act of gaining muscle; no one who body-builds naturally is at risk of getting so big, their heart collapses in a futile attempt to fuel the inflated, unhealthy amount of muscle mass/fluid they have.
@@idihcerebe yes, since there are basically zero people who follow any kind of truly natural bodybuilding, they don't really have a chance to give the sport any kind of name at all, do they? The only pieces of bodybuilding people really pay attention to are open pro and classic pro, which, like I said, give the sport a bad name.
Nothing like trying to be strong while grabbing max width and bending your wrist some may to cut .2 inches of ROM all while in the 75 kg weight class. That caricature is what I see when I think overspecialized internet powerlifter enthusiast.
In France, a powerlifting team thinks like that. They only do SBD at low volume and they claim that it's enough to become huge and strong. They also say that with only sbd you can have all the muscle mass that you want. Of course they are on gear but they claim to be natty. A real cancer.
If they've convinced you they must be using gear whatever they are doing must be working at least fairly well. 90% of lifters on gear will never look good enough to even get accused of it.
I hardly ever max out anymore being in my late 30s. I do 5/3/1 with a lot of reps and have found I keep getting generally stronger the more I train like this. I’m in it for the old man strength in 20 years. Guys will argue it’s too hard to limit yourself with relative strength. You need to count rep maxes more often. Strongmen have been doing general strength like this for years.
I've been lifting for about 30 years and find it hard to stick to doing higher reps. I've tried! It's just too tempting to add more plates, so I usually still end up still working in the 1 to 5 range maximum on the big compounds. Those big one rep maxes just feel so good, lol. I should start doing more rep work though. It's probably better for me. I've started doing more reps on accessory movements. I just need to find more self control on the SBD lifts.
I am the same age as yours. But started lifting late, only a year or so ago, initially progressed a lot with low rep stuff but have realised the importance of more muscle so have curated my program to more accessory volume. Even in squats doing a 20 rep sets once a week. I guess muscle is the only way I can ensure general well being and strength as I move into the 40s and later.
Powerlifting rules 🤟💪🏻 (jokes apart, I spent 25 years doing body building style of training before starting competing in pl… basically, keep the good work Bromley 👍 )
Conjugate has been a game changer for me personally. But not Westside's version, more in line with Alex Leonidas (AlphaDestiny). Heavy Singles with different variations weekly plus all volume work.
I do think a lot of young kids gets 2 specific 2 soon...In my opinion beginners should focus on mostly hyperthrophy and getting stronger in the 5 - 10 rep range using both barbell AND dumbell excercises.When you are a beginner you don`t need to do singles at all.Build your strength,don`t just test it...
Idk I feel like bodybuilding appeals to the bottom of the iceberg too since most people care more about what they look like than how much weight they can lift. Weekend warrior bodybulders are 90% of the guys you see in a commercial gym. Most of the ppl they follow on social media are usually shitty fitness influencers selling them some shitty product to build their gains or get lean. I don't see as many equivalents in powerlifting in terms of "Buy my shit and you'll get really strong". I'm sure there is, maybe with coaching or programming. But hell, anyone can sign up and do a low level bodybuilding show and they all get participation trophies too. In my cousin's first couple of physique shows he was going up against guys who look like mailmen (and not Karl Malone). When he did a couple of bigger shows and came in like 3rd or 4th he was still getting medals lol. I think in general everyone gets participation trophies now. I agree with the overspecialization point though. Many new people who are into powerlifting just want to do 5x5 or max effort then go home not realizing the way you build weaknesses (of the muscular kind) is through old fashioned bodybuilding.
The guys who always had amazing first meets were those who spent 2-4 years doing bodybuilding training in college before they decided to give powerlifting a crack. They put up incredible numbers at the meet only doing the RTS or Calgary Barbell 12-week program to really hone in on their neural-muscular and lift-specific efficency. Then the hyperspecific USAPL bros always had a tough time since they only lifted the main three lifts in a overly specific way. They would only use comp bars, kilo plates, and a comp combo rack and refused to use any other equipment. Then come meet day, they would crumble when one one thing was off or a lift didn't go exactly as they needed it. They lacked the ability to adapt and overcome. I really want to go on a rant about how USAPL bros refuse to work as a crew anymore so every indivuadal has to take up every fucking squat rack and use all the kilo plates when they could have worked together since none of them went above three reds on squats.
I wonder what your definition of an "amazing" first meet is. Bodybuilding builds muscle in areas that take up weight on the scale but don't contribute to the 3 lifts you're actually compating in.
This is a much better criticism of powerlifting culture and I agree, for the most part. I've always done a lot of bodybuilding and I think its why I continued to rise with the tide despite slightly above average genetics.
This new trend of powerlifters who don’t want to gain mass is so puzzling to me. Everyone I knew before started lifting for the same reason: I want to get bigger. This new generation almost feels perverse; lifting not to get bigger and get stronger, but to have your friends clap for you and get a meaningless medal for placing top 3 in a class with 2 people in it. I feel like old man yelling at cloud and I’m not even 30 yet. What point is there in lifting big numbers if none of your coworkers even believe that you lift weights? 😂
Yeah, i started lifting wanting to get bigger. Then i went to nursing school, took pathophysiology, and learned your heart doesn't care if you are 300 lbs of fat or 300 lbs of muscle, it's going to go into heart failure either way. Then I watched a bunch of 300 lb bodybuilders die at ages 25-50. At that point, i decided i want to be strong, but maybe i don't want to get die at 50 big. I compete at 165 and i've never had ANYONE doubt that i lift weights. I'll give 99.9% odds that at my weight i look a LOT more like i lift weights than you do, AND that i'm stronger at 165 than you are at your bodyweight.
@@sevourn you can do a hypertrophy program without going anywhere near 300 lbs, you're not going to get to that natty anyway. Sounds like you're just making excuses for being small. You also make a lot of assumptions about other people and seem to do a lot of projecting.
Personally, I’d search for a powerlifting program because programming to peak for a meet or just testing 1rms is more difficult than just programming for general strength. But if I’m doing a hypertrophy block I just program for my self because as long as you are hitting your volume and overload putting on mass is not that complicated.
As a relative beginner, I went into higher volume, 5 days a week and saw very good gains. However, after a few months I was getting too tired and burned out. I think I should have learned about deload weeks, but I haven't yet. I have started on gzclp program without additions now, and focusing on strength and also started reading your book. We'll see, I hope to add more to my current simple program soon.
Great video. Natural Hypertrophy has a much longer one, with a different bent, about the same topic. How and why powerlifting came to dominate the discussion of fitness/ie lifting heavy shit on youtube and other platforms.
Kind of reminds me of what Doug Hepburn wrote in the 1950s. Although Olympic weightlifting was the only "official strength sport" at the time, weightlifters were expected to be all-around strong at everything and ready to back it up even in non-standard challenges. It was like a reputational thing, you couldn't call yourself a strongman, much less "the World's Strongest Man," if all you could do were the Olympic three but immediately deflated as soon as you left that comfort zone. Doug Hepburn was 5'8" and walked around at between 285-305 lbs for most of his career; in modern days he would probably water cut to 275. His best power lifts were a 760 lb squat with a 5 second pause, a 525 lb paused bench (580 touch and go with wide grip), and a 705 lb deadlift (740 with straps - he mostly used the deadlift as an assistance movement for the Olympic lifts). There have been a few guys who have surpassed those numbers in powerlifting, but I can't think of anyone in his weight class who can do all of that AND do things like put up a world record Olympic total, strict press 450 lbs off the rack, strict curl 260 lbs (without leaning on a wall - rules were different back then), bend coins with his fingers, or even acrobatic stuff like walking up ladders on his hands or supporting a man doing a handstand on a bar he was pressing overhead. This kind of versatility is something we really only see in strongman, and almost never to this extent.
A problem I've recently noticed is advanced lifters using cookie-cutter programs, or at least not heavily personalizing them. After 2-3 years of moderate to high commitment to a given sport, you need to really break down what works for you. Not necessarily what exercises, as injury flows, lifestyle changes, equipment, and weak points will all change, but what structure. SBD/compound heavy days? Accessories coupled with one main movement? Higher relative frequency for a given lift? This and understanding your personal habits and preferences, as I'm a firm believer in that this should be *fun*. Yes, you can tear yourself apart fiber by fiber every workout, but you should be getting a kick out of it. By combining what you like (say mixing compounds on heavy days) with what actually works for your progression (changing SBD specific variations every few weeks/months with weak points) you will effectively tailor-make your own program with relatively little need for science. Not to say you shouldn't use science, especially at advanced training ages, but cutting a set of bench for an extra set of variations because of some protein synthesis theory instead of doing that last set because you know it works for you would be a good example. Still, find activation ratios for different exercises you can switch between easily, understand the organic chemistry behind fatigue and recovery, create ways to improve your S/F ratio for lagging body parts, but apply this all through a simple filter; Does it work? Do I like it? Oh and learn spreadsheets to build your own programs. Maybe find a fitness tracker app.
@@shrexyboi1850 Well, I'm 5'9, 180 at the moment and thinking of bulking up at least another 10lb. Sounds you are in the same spot as me at 150, but make your own judgement.
@@shrexyboi1850 Yes. You would reach your maximum strength potential for your height at around 150-160, depending on your joint sizes. But remember that this is going to take years. You might get close in 5 years, depending on your current age and how you train.
I used to believe the powerlifting meme. Now I have so much more fun developing my 3-10RM. I’m getting bigger and stronger as opposed to highly specialized.
One of the reasons I've created the powerbuilding, Westside mish-mash of a program I run is because it isn't HYPER specific to any one thing. I get to lift heavy and train my CNS on my max effort days, while my dynamic/volume days are focused more on hypertrophy. Also, constantly rotating variations and exercise selection in 8 week blocks prevents over use and allows me to continue bringing up all areas of my body at a relatively even pace and lets me focus on weak points that naturally develop over time.
I'm a long time gymbro but fairly new to powerlifting. I spent years just kinda winging it and following advice from friends and channels like yours and others, but after getting to 215lb at 5'10" and fairly lean decided I'm "big enough" for my personal goals, and want to try powerlifting. I have a ton of respect for Strongman, Weightlifting and bodybuilding. It's not perfect, but I like powerlifting because it is basically just the answer to the question "how much can you lift" on lifts I was already doing. I think after a couple more meets I might train for and try to compete in strongman too, I don't have any delusions about winning but it'd be cool just to hang and see what I can do. I get where you're coming from about the integrity of sports and the spirit of competition, but I do think accessibility is important for the vast majority of us who are never gonna be world champions. Like yeah, it's good to have role models to look up to, but 99% of athletes aren't pros in any sports. They're the local amateur leagues, school teams, or friends putting something together. Anyway I do think you have good advice for powerlifters or anyone else. I definitely support programming in cardio, volume and conditioning, variations into main days and GPP workouts. I also think most people who want to get serious about powerlifting should be willing to go through hypertrophy blocks to get up into a weight where their body is operating in peak condition.
Kinda off topic but the most annoyong thing about Powerlifting for me is this; after competing in about 15 competitions, 3 of which were for my country at International level I can say Powerlifting has become from my perspective "cultish" and closed minded. I use to train at a Powerlifting only gym which might as well have been sponsored by the IPF, if you didn't compete IPF you weren't strong / you did "fake" competitions, if your Wilks didn't go up you weren't "getting stronger" (even if your absolute strength went up) and getting as much out of your raw small as can be knee sleeves and EXTREME contourtionist arch laying on Bench lift (cant be called a "Bench Press" is what really matters and how you get "stronger." It really seemed as I got better and as others did we all started to believe this / our hype and turned into something we say we are completely against. Most of all anyone reading this, get strong, jacked and reach your own goals for yourself, don't let federations and Mob rule control your thoughts about true Strength which is much much bigger and greater than any federation with all its group think, politics and straight up BS! Thanks for the video Bromley!
I mean, but what if I'm a genetic freak and I don't know it? Isn't it possible I'd wake up a 300lbs mass monster after a hypertrophycycle or two? I'm not sure that's a risk I'm willing to take.
you are right as usual, just call it musclebuilding not bodybuilding..., bc everybody wants more muscle, but most dont want to get on stage with a spraytan in a thong
I'm following Evolve AI training app right now and doing a power building program, and I'm really happy to find that the bodybuilding phases are really broad base and only touch the competition movements once a week. In fact, I get to choose most of my accessories, so can tailor the program to my weak points. It's based off Juggernaut from what I hear, so there are plenty of 10 rep workouts. Today, for example, I'm hitting 5x10 on front squat, followed by conventional deadlift 1x5@8 with a backoff set of 1x8, and then some bodybuilding assistance work. That rep scheme is the same for competition bench and squat within a training week, and usually the main movement isn't the first exercise of the workout, so you're hitting it when you're already slightly fatigued (which is a good thing this far out from a "mock meet" scenario). My point is, there are certainly powerlifting coaches who "get it" and don't force you into specialized training when you're not in a competition prep. There are a decent amount of supersets built into my routine also. I feel like I'm really building my work capacity while maintaining proficiency in the barbell movements.
A big problem I have with strength sports is that it’s a simple process that’s intentionally made confusing to push content and/or products. Buzzwords like “build a base” are confusing to noobs. Saying the facts in a simple manner like “strength is how much muscle you can activate on a lift to get the weight up” tends to be more easily understood. All of a sudden the training cycles make sense. You understand that you start a training block by building muscle to increase your strength capacity and then increase the weight to train your muscle activation to find your actual limit and then rinse and repeat. I think a large percentage of people would go very far off of a repeatable program that hits the competition lifts and then allows you to select weak point exercises block by block. For example powerlifting you work up to a top set to maintain familiarity with the competition movement and the rest of the workout is bodybuilding stuff hypertrophy. Right now my hamstrings are my weak link so if training lower/upper/lower/upper in the form of squat/bench/dead/bench I would have perhaps 2/3 of my leg hypertrophy hamstring focussed and 1/3 quad focussed and vice versa as required and carry that basic premis forward as required to all sessions across the training block.
It’s really funny that Ronnie Coleman seems to have gotten it exactly backwards Everybody wants to lift heavy ass weight but don’t nobody want to be a bodybuilder
I think relative strength is useful for certain sports (weight classed sports like wrestling, bodyweight punishing sports like rock climbing), but benchmarking your progress with relative strength definitely seems like a way to limit yourself.
Real life challenges don't care about our bodyweight. It is important only in certain sports like gymnastics, MMA/martial arts, etc. It is a cold truth that we need to accept.
Your weight class does in fact matter in "real life" or "caveman mode" too, the bigger you are, the more energy you'll need, and the more food you'll need to survive. And that can in fact be quite a disadvantage, survival never favored the largest people as even the most novice of anthropologists can tell you, and there is a reason animals have been getting smaller and smaller through millions of years. You have no idea what you are talking about farhan.
@@Kaledrone your point is valid from the perspective of survival that less food and energy is needed to remain alive for smaller person. My point was from perspective of exerting or exhibiting maximum physical force/strength in situations where it is needed. For example if the situation requires to move or lift a very heavy object or push a dead vehicle, the stronger guy would be better able to do it. And usually but not always, bigger guy tends to be stronger than smaller guy provided that they both have trained with weights.
@@sevourn your point is absolutely correct in that sense. I was actually talking about sports or maybe situations where you have to deal with heavy physical objects. But yes, a healthy weight should be our goal. Athletes have different priorities for their sports so they may want to adjust their weights accordingly.
@@tGGgGg-sp9yx yes they all have jacked and impressive physiques. But the average "powerlifter" think that only squat, bench and deadlift are what got them there.
I agree that powerlifting has become a lot more popular in the past few years but don't think it is as popular as you make it out to be. Using your viewers as a database probably has skewed the results. While you talk about getting bigger and stronger I'd say your content leans towards strength and therefore attracts people more interested in that. When I look around my gym there is maybe a handful of people training for strength.
I wasn't clear, I was comparing the search volume for all of youtube. The tool gives high, med or low rankings across the whole platform so I know what is likely to get searched before I make the video. Powerlifting program is high, all of the others were low.
@@AlexanderBromley well yeah, kinda makes sense. Strongman looks cool! Oh wait, I'm 5'4. Highland games looks cool! Oh wait, I'm 5'4. Surprise, suprise, the strength sport that doesn't arbitrarily lock out most body types is the most popular strength sport.
Yeah I personally enjoy trying to get stronger and lift heavily but if you work with general population and not strength athletes most peoples are goals are primarily physique related with a moderate level of strength, not extreme prioritization of strength in a narrow selection of movements. Powerbuilding or bodybuilding is probably the best most generic training style for the most people but bodybuilding just has negative connotations regarding drugs and narcissism and eating disorders.
One of my friends dropped a weight class and got a silver medal at IPF world masters. I don’t know if this was his motivation but there are fewer guys competing in the classes lower than 74kg.
I believe that this is because of prevalent idea that you must start from strength oriented routine like 5x5, SS or 5/3/1 and then earn right to BB work.
Basic linear programs like SS don’t have a disclaimer that you should you only run them for 8-12 weeks before moving on. So people spin their wheels running them for years because forums like Reddit give the impression that you should only graduate from beginner programs when your total hits a certain number.
Another thing I noticed is that people who engage seriously in powerlifting are afraid to let go of SBD for a few weeks or months to work on their weaknesses. I mean there’s such a thing as muscle memory. I definitely agree that it helps to build a wider base. A bit of a tangent but I’m always reminded of Yurik Vardanian: GOATed weightlifter with a very, very wide athletic base.
Like what weaknesses exactly? If i compete in squat, bench, and deadlifts, and those are primarily what i'm training, what "weaknesses" am i supposed to be covering? My job is to fit as much muscle as humanly possible that can directly increase SBD into 165 lbs of beef jerky, go rehydrate to 195, and then squat, bench, and deadlift. Every pound of muscle I carry that does not improve those lifts is a wasted pound of muscle taking up dead weight on the.scale.
@@sevourn possible muscle imbalances for one. One example that I can think of is groin being weak from doing so much sumo deadlifts and wide stance squats. My point being is it’s ok to let go of SBD to give a body a break and to let those lagging weaknesses catch up
@@ShinSuperSaiyajin serious competitors aren't there to get a balanced, healthy set of muscles any more than a world class marathon runner is there to get a fitness model body. Yes, we are imbalanced. In fact, i continuously fight groin pulls. Should I do a bunch of Copenhagen progressions to correct it at the cost of 3 pounds of pec and tricep muscle? Yeah, no. If you want to be at the top, it's a price you must pay. For the rest of you, i guess it doesn't matter what you do. If you have no hope of setting records, i suppose you can go get a happy little balanced body while you're at it.
@@sevourn I get your point and I do agree that serious competitors are not training for balance. My case I guess is if you’re not an elite competitor, it won’t hurt to lay off from SBD once in a while for the sake of longevity.
@@ShinSuperSaiyajin well then you should probably take off your part about "people who engage seriously with powerlifting" and replace it with "backyard lifter local yokel competitors" or whatever you people are
PL’ing training is orders of magnitude more accessible in terms of equipment than strongman, or BB’ing, and even more so in terms of skill compared to OWL’ing. If one is inclined to compete, it’s also very accessible in terms of competition availability. A million bloody feds with a million meets (in the USA at least) and the outcome becomes predictable 🤷♂️
I will say I am training strongman. But I also must be functional. As I am a fireman. I'm 7 months in. And I have put on a decent amount of muscle. Amd my numbers have went up alot. But there is a DELUGE of information. Most of it contradicts what others say. It's very confusing. So I have to spend hours studying and sifting through stuff that doesn't add up. 🙃. I mainly just focus on keeping my protein as high as I can. As that's really the only thing I can really commit to. Because some shifts we just have to take what we can get food and time wise. On off days I can eat better. Thanks for the video
This is all very interesting! I couldn’t tell you my opinion on newer trends of lifting since by al accounts i am a noob myself 😅 (It’ll be 2 years barbell training in February ) BUT i did trained in other sports before, mainly cycling and yoga/areal arts. So i have noticed slight comments maybe slightly making fun of my “yoga” like “oh yeah go do your yoga” or comments about how my “cycling is too much cardio” here and there never gave them too much thought, i gotta say i think it gives me an advantage with volume and super sets etc but i have notice i have issue putting out my max efforts. So i took this block to build muscle, let’s see what i can get. My front squats went from a max of 185lb to 210lb (for a single) and i still have two weeks in my block!
You mention jiu jitsu in passing which is funny, because the profit model in bjj is very similar to powerlifting and I think the culture being driven by novices is also very problematic in bjj.
The most obvious thing that makes powerlifting so attractive is that there are only 3 movements to do. This makes it very easy for entry and specialisation since you only need to train 3 movements. For people who can't train like body builders, powerlifting requires far less hours of work. There's nothing wrong with this. It all comes down to goals. If you want to be a powerlifter, that's fine. But if you don't intend to powerlift or if you want to bulk up, the powerlifting training style isn't the optimal way. There are so many other muscle groups that get neglected if you only do those 3 squat, bench and deadlift movements.
Pros with powerlifting: It's very accessible, the bar to entry is extremely low and everyone can give it a crack Cons with powerlifting: It's very accessible, the bar to entry is extremely low and everyone can give it a crack
Gaining muscle is hard! I started lifting for reals in July of this year and just hit the calories!! I was 180lbs at about 15/17% BF, started eating +6k per day, and by October I was 205lbs at 25% BF.......now I'm 210lbs at 22% BF. Losing fat is easy as fck, gaining muscle is hard as fck
I know this is a relatively serious video, but number 1 reason why I do powerlifting is because its fun. nothing bores me more than having to train shoulders on its own dedicated day, or arms. I'd rather be doing bench, squat or dead and then finish off with shoulders/arms. other training is boring for me.
@@PotatoSlices yeah of course. I'm just using it as an exaggerated example. I just much prefer to dedicate most of my time to heavy compound lifts that's all. That's what feels fun for me.
@@mami3790 thats literally what i do as a bodybuilder though. I just fill in the gaps and use more volume. The day you stop giving a shit about how strong you are is the day you can start to get big
Programming and training to add size is very easy compared to optimizing strength. Also, the recent increase of popularity in powerlifting made a lot of bodybuilders realize that their training is pretty boring and repetitive and made them want to try this new stuff.
@@jaredchalker7914 This might be true for an absolute beginner who still needs to learn the movements, but after those newbie strength gains, gaining muscle is definitely way simpler than gaining strength relative to your bodyweight. For advanced lifters, optimizing strength can require complex programming, while gaining size is pretty much just a matter of lifting and sticking to your diet.
Great video mate. I've definitely noticed what you are saying and the negative impacts its had on the average lifter. "Anything more than 5 reps is cardio" "High reps doesn't work for natties" Are quotes I've heard from lifters who haven't experienced enough progress to tell anyone what works. They are even blind to how the best lifters in the powerlifting community they are in achieve success. Russell Orhii hits a few heavy top sets and then bodybuilds. Greg Nuckols once said that the weight classes are really height classes in disguise. Almost all elite 181s are 5'8" or less and carry a lot of mass. Good luck achieving that with nothing but singles doubles and triples. Also, I found that when I focused on powerlifting heavy only type training I could reach a good number on a few specific lifts but the carryover wasn't there and I wasn't really a strong guy. Adding just a bit of muscle makes your strength as a whole go up and carries over and you don't lose large amounts of strength just because you don't train a lift for a few weeks. Nowadays people just run programs that are intended to peak your lifts year round. It's gotten to the point that coaches on instagram that recommend lifts like weighted dips and belt squats are considered revolutionary/heretical. I'm talking like I'm old but I've only been in the game ~10 years and I've seen a big shift from guys training only what they look like, to training strength and size (peak), to now training only what they lift. All thats really been accomplished is helping skinny people post big sumo deadlifts on insta lol
I've never heard any high level powerlifter say any of the things you are saying. Of course you train high reps when you can to minimize injury risk. Weighted dips and belt squats are core powerlifting excercises. People saying stuff like you mentioned sound suspiciously like some imaginary "powerliftier" strawmen
anyway, in terms of shift in culture, I go with a similar approach to "music was better back in the day!!" which is to say: nah, you've just forgotten all the bad shit, all the novelty bands, all the garbage one hit wonders. I haven't been training as long as you, but I'm quietly confident that there was just as much bullshit 20 years ago, your brain just filtered it out. Good video tho don't get me wrong, I agree with almost all of it. I just see misplaced nostalgia in a lot of other scenes as well and I'm very sceptical of it.
It really seems like Bodybuilding is the accessory sport for all strength sports. Never quit making gains.
GOATed comment right here
It seems like it, because it is.
If gains=mass there is absolutely a point you need to quit making them. Just ask Rich Piana. Oh wait, that's going to be hard to do isn't it.
@@sevourn Pretty sure it wasn't the gains that killed him, just sayin. The point where your body can't add mass without causing unacceptable damage is an individual decision. But I doubt many people ever reach that point.
@@hebertfamilywellnesscenter6585 well if you're pretty sure of that, you're most likely speaking from a place of ignorance. Are you aware upon autopsy his heart was double the weight of an average heart?
Are you familiar with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy/heart failure with preserved ejection fraction? Do you know the pathophysiology behind it?
Heart is forced to pump blood through more miles of blood vessel than any normal heart would have to. In the average American this is caused by hundreds of pounds of fat, but guess what requires much more perfusion, and thus many more miles of blood vessels than fat? Yes, muscle.
In response to radically increased workload, walls and septum of heart hypertrophy. This makes the heart stiff, and it no longer properly fills with blood fed from inferior vena cava. The cardiac hypertrophy is further exacerbated by long term exposure to anabolic steroids. Now that heart can't fill, and can no longer meet the immense demand of a 300 lb muscle body, heart is no longer able to perfuse itself. Heart dies, person dies immediately after.
His cause of death was textbook heart failure with preserved ejection fraction, most common cause of death in America. Gains did indeed kill him. It's not a thing that is up for debate, it is established fact.
This is the truest video ever. When I started training 4 years ago I was 6' 155lbs. I discovered powerlifting very early on and I was just doing SBD with very high intensity and low volume. I gained some strength. Then in the 2nd-3rd year of training I looked at every one else and noticed despite me being the same strength as others I was skinny like 6"2 175lbs. So I decided to do follow some powerbuilding plan that was super high volume. Within 16 weeks my squat blew tf up from 325-405lbs. I gained some 15 pounds from the program from just training at higher volumes.
Even now I really train for most of the year with a volume focus to gain more muscle then max out maybe 2-3 times a year. I'm currently sitting at 210 and pushing towards filling out the 220lbs/100kg class.
Great vid
Now I am considering to follow similar approach. I am doing low volume training and mainly focusing 4-5 main lifts. Although strength gains were good, but not very shocking at all. But I didn't gain muscle size despite strength.
Over half of my nephew's class are excused phys ed. There are now a lot of kids in powerlifting who have legit NEVER done any other sport, not even at school, not even phys ed. So, of course, they think powerlifting is the toughest sport (this is not helped by equipped guys talking about PL as if it's trans-universal alien bounty-hunting).
yeah powerlifting is probably the easiest sport. you could be a fat couch potato but be good at powerlifting after a couple of months of training. it's just 3 simplistic movement patterns
The most annoying thing about powerlifting is how everyone preaches how it's the best way to gain size, I thought they must be right, then I watched IPF worlds, and the vast majority of lifters looked DYEL while lifting very impressive weights. The most notorious place for this is r/Fitness, they shove strength programs down every new inexperienced lifter and tell them it'll make them big if they just get strong. Then they'll use a jacked powerlifter as an example that it works, ignoring the fact the majority of powerlifters look like dogshit.
And the ones that don't do a metric fuck ton of accessory work
@@AlexanderBromley that's just not true, i do almost all SBD, very little accessory work, and i look much, much better than you.
For looks, you need:. Program that isn't pants on head retarded, consistent high effort over years/decades, low bodyfat. The minutiae of programming aren't a factor.
I'm glad I realized that early on and shifted to "powerbuilding". I have no desire to compete and most people I encounter in life will never see me deadlift something anyway but they'll notice big arms and shoulders every time.
@@zerrodefex I'm watching you deadlift, boy. 👀👀👀
I like what I see. 😎👉🏻👉🏻
The “must not gain weight” relative strength fallacy is absolutely rampant in calisthenics. It’s understandable because it’s heavily focused on relative strength, but people are just completely wrong about how this works. Within the realistic muscle gaining range for almost every redditor, more muscle means more relative strength in almost all cases. But people really think they’re going to indefinitely progress “skills” with sets of 3 at 101% effort, then wonder why they get overuse injuries and plateau for literally years.
I did the math 7 years ago or so, and adding up all the world, national, and state records (just for the united states feds) and all of their sub categories, there were more records to be had than actual lifters. I've gotten state records that I didn't even know about until years later when someone else showed me lmao.
Over specialization was the main reason I had left the Ohio State powerlifting club. Their programming was tailored towards more advanced lifters, while their off-season programming was only a few months out of the year, and even that was specific, boring, and pretty low volume. It’s worth noting that many members were fairly new to lifting in general, yet they get thrown right into meet prep mode. They were great people, just too focused on developing the peak.
I decided to switch to your Bullmastiff program which I’ve been using for a year. Needless to say my base is WAY better now, as well as my work capacity and muscle imbalances. And it’s simply more fun.
In France, a powerlifting team thinks like that. They only do SBD at low volume and they claim that it's enough to become huge and strong. They also say that with only sbd you can have all the muscle mass that you want. Of course they are on gear but they claim to be natty. A real cancer.
@@divicospower9112weight classes with PED’s are wild
I like your base building approach. I know I'm going to be building my base for years to come, and I might not bother doing anything resembling a peaking process (no desire to compete). I've built most of what I have on sets of 8-12. Just flat out works. Over the years, adding strength is just a byproduct of adding a rep here and there and occasionally some weight to the bar.
Good plan for those goals, peaking is about displaying maximal strength not building it. 👍
Not a bad approach but I think you're shortchanging your gains. There's a huge difference in pushing a 8-12 rep max and a 3 rep max, I think it would be beneficial to do a "peak" cycle once in a while (training heavier for 6-8 weeks leading up to a 5RM). I'm pretty sure you'd gain strength a bit faster.
@@Gus-Moose Oh, totally. I definitely use sets of 5 (especially with lifts I consider weaker). I just tend to spend the majority of my sets in the 8-12 range for compounds.
When things get a little stale, I'll work in a different range than I'm used to. Could be 5s, could be 15s. Haven't really worked compounds in the 20+ rep range though...
Already know this is gonna ruffle some feathers
I have been competing in powerlifting at state level on and off for over 30 years. In that time I raised a family and had a career. Powerlifting let's you do that. You can be strong, in relative good shape and still have a life. I will agree with you though that cardio and diet are very important and it is often overlooked. At the last meet I was in, I was talking to another lifter over 50 and he made a comment on how many out of shape "athletes " were there. I couldn't agree more.
Absolutely accurate. As someone whos a novice/intermediate 'powerbuilder', I feel discouraged when I see powerlifters 20kilos below my weightclass lifting more than I do and therefore feel like I am lacking 'skill' and 'technique', and I'd even want to diet down to a lower weight class just so I can feel better about my lifts.
If people 40+ pounds less than you are lifting more than you, you are indeed lacking skill and technique, and getting fat won't fix that problem. I don't know why you're putting those words in quotes like it's some kind of debatable subject.
You probably SHOULD diet down, you'll live a lot longer, and it doesn't sound like you're going to be breaking any records either way.
I remember walking around the gym in college and noticing all the guys who did the power lifts (myself included) were way smaller than the bros doing dumbbell work
You’re absolutely spot on. At my last meet I was one of the only ones who had decent size on his frame. You could see these guys did nothing but low rep strength work.
My meet prep program actually consists of high volume the first 4 weeks with a build and peaking phase. When I’m not prepping for a meet, I do a program that’s similar to the first 4 weeks. I usually work in weights 67.5, 70, 72.5 and 75 percent of my max for tons of volume.
Correlation between size of prime movers and strength is a real thing.
Yeah I seen that I did my first unsanctioned local meet last month. I’m 36 and had more size one my frame than most of the 20 something year olds. Lol and I out totaled most of them.
You don't get an award for size at a powerlifting meet. It's like saying you were the only guy who could dance when you went to a wrestling tournament. Did your size get you best lifter? What was your wilks? Let's see that openpowerlifting page captain mass.
@@sevourn bro. Did you even watch the video? Did you even see Bromleys point? Maybe you should actually watch the video, as opposed to spitting off at the mouth and completely misconstruing what I said.
There’s a lot of study’s that point out size of prime movers means more strength. While yes, you’re not judged in a Speedo at a powerlifting competition, having more muscle will help your total. And if I gotta link you over to Matt Venas channel where he shows these studies I will. My god, the internet never ceases to fucking amaze me
@@stephenstathis4 yes, i did. More muscle means higher totals. Duh. No argument there. Totals don't win powerlifting competitions. Wilks and DOTS scores win competitions.
If you want to link me to studies showing that high muscle mass increases wilks/DOTS I'm all eyes.
From a practical health and longevity standpoint, carrying a huge amount of muscle mass is in most ways as bad as carrying a lot of fat. In a few ways it is actually worse. Then on top of that it doesn't actually even make you more likely to win the competition.
I don't know what competitions you attend, but i see the opposite problems. I see mostly 35-45 year old prematurely aged Peter Griffins who use powerlifting as an excuse to be obese.
They think they are athletes because they can bench 350 at a bodyweight of 275 but can't make it up a flight of stairs. Meanwhile I'm outtotalling them at a bodyweight of 165 and i can actually move around like a human being.
@@sevourn I agree with you on one thing, too much muscle being as bad as carrying around too much fat. You have to be athletic, and be able to move well. I’m 215, I’ve naturally been on the taller, bigger side. But I’m also proficient In calesthenics, yoga and cardio.
You brought up a very interesting fact also. Yes Wilks and DOTs have a play in winning competitions, but if you have an already high score adding a few lbs of muscle may take you higher.
So all in all, I agree with you on a few key points and brought a good debate to the table. There is definitely a carry over between muscle/dots/wilks.
My wilks is 339, my DOTS is 343. I placed third in my weight class my last meet which was untested, and I’m a natty lifter. So that point alone holds up your end of the argument
Absolutely love your hot takes! I'm a sucker for drama, and this stuff is the best.
At this point, powerlifting is giving all of strength a bad name for muscle building. There's a resurgence of people claiming that training for strength isn't good for hypertrophy because they conflate powerlifting with strength.
Bodybuilders who acheive the professional bodybuilding physique standard and then die because 320 pounds of muscle is all but incompatible with life give strength sports a bad name.
Powerlifting gives people realistic goals and a reason to get in the gym.
@@sevourn Yeah it's definitively the muscle that kills them, not the egg shriveling shoe on head retarded doses of gear and diuretics they take.
@@sevourn That's enhanced, competitive bodybuilding, not the simple act of gaining muscle; no one who body-builds naturally is at risk of getting so big, their heart collapses in a futile attempt to fuel the inflated, unhealthy amount of muscle mass/fluid they have.
@@idihcerebe yes, since there are basically zero people who follow any kind of truly natural bodybuilding, they don't really have a chance to give the sport any kind of name at all, do they?
The only pieces of bodybuilding people really pay attention to are open pro and classic pro, which, like I said, give the sport a bad name.
My eastern European neighbour told me there's a saying where he comes from: anyone under 90kg(200lb) shouldn't have an opinion.
I also love the saying that pullups don't count unless you weigh 100kg
Your neighbor is rippetoe?
And i can most likely out-total your neighbor at bodyweight 165 lb.
/r/powerbuilding is practically a subreddit for sub-90kg lifters only. What about the building part, lmao.
So true
Nothing like trying to be strong while grabbing max width and bending your wrist some may to cut .2 inches of ROM all while in the 75 kg weight class. That caricature is what I see when I think overspecialized internet powerlifter enthusiast.
In France, a powerlifting team thinks like that. They only do SBD at low volume and they claim that it's enough to become huge and strong. They also say that with only sbd you can have all the muscle mass that you want. Of course they are on gear but they claim to be natty. A real cancer.
If they've convinced you they must be using gear whatever they are doing must be working at least fairly well. 90% of lifters on gear will never look good enough to even get accused of it.
I hardly ever max out anymore being in my late 30s. I do 5/3/1 with a lot of reps and have found I keep getting generally stronger the more I train like this. I’m in it for the old man strength in 20 years. Guys will argue it’s too hard to limit yourself with relative strength. You need to count rep maxes more often. Strongmen have been doing general strength like this for years.
I've been lifting for about 30 years and find it hard to stick to doing higher reps. I've tried! It's just too tempting to add more plates, so I usually still end up still working in the 1 to 5 range maximum on the big compounds. Those big one rep maxes just feel so good, lol. I should start doing more rep work though. It's probably better for me. I've started doing more reps on accessory movements. I just need to find more self control on the SBD lifts.
@@DANA-lx8cv Get up to 8 reps on the SBDs and then add more weight to bring it down to 3-4 and then work your way up again.
@@BrookMaboyi that's a good idea tbh
I am the same age as yours. But started lifting late, only a year or so ago, initially progressed a lot with low rep stuff but have realised the importance of more muscle so have curated my program to more accessory volume. Even in squats doing a 20 rep sets once a week. I guess muscle is the only way I can ensure general well being and strength as I move into the 40s and later.
Powerlifting rules 🤟💪🏻
(jokes apart, I spent 25 years doing body building style of training before starting competing in pl… basically, keep the good work Bromley 👍 )
Conjugate has been a game changer for me personally. But not Westside's version, more in line with Alex Leonidas (AlphaDestiny). Heavy Singles with different variations weekly plus all volume work.
I'm in the last two weeks of Bull Mastiff. Excellent program!
I do think a lot of young kids gets 2 specific 2 soon...In my opinion beginners should focus on mostly hyperthrophy and getting stronger in the 5 - 10 rep range using both barbell AND dumbell excercises.When you are a beginner you don`t need to do singles at all.Build your strength,don`t just test it...
I am beginning to think Bromley doesn’t like powerlifting.
Idk I feel like bodybuilding appeals to the bottom of the iceberg too since most people care more about what they look like than how much weight they can lift. Weekend warrior bodybulders are 90% of the guys you see in a commercial gym. Most of the ppl they follow on social media are usually shitty fitness influencers selling them some shitty product to build their gains or get lean. I don't see as many equivalents in powerlifting in terms of "Buy my shit and you'll get really strong". I'm sure there is, maybe with coaching or programming.
But hell, anyone can sign up and do a low level bodybuilding show and they all get participation trophies too. In my cousin's first couple of physique shows he was going up against guys who look like mailmen (and not Karl Malone). When he did a couple of bigger shows and came in like 3rd or 4th he was still getting medals lol. I think in general everyone gets participation trophies now. I agree with the overspecialization point though. Many new people who are into powerlifting just want to do 5x5 or max effort then go home not realizing the way you build weaknesses (of the muscular kind) is through old fashioned bodybuilding.
A switch has taken place where "strength training" now means "powerlifting" or ""powerlifting with ohp".
The guys who always had amazing first meets were those who spent 2-4 years doing bodybuilding training in college before they decided to give powerlifting a crack. They put up incredible numbers at the meet only doing the RTS or Calgary Barbell 12-week program to really hone in on their neural-muscular and lift-specific efficency. Then the hyperspecific USAPL bros always had a tough time since they only lifted the main three lifts in a overly specific way. They would only use comp bars, kilo plates, and a comp combo rack and refused to use any other equipment. Then come meet day, they would crumble when one one thing was off or a lift didn't go exactly as they needed it. They lacked the ability to adapt and overcome.
I really want to go on a rant about how USAPL bros refuse to work as a crew anymore so every indivuadal has to take up every fucking squat rack and use all the kilo plates when they could have worked together since none of them went above three reds on squats.
I wonder what your definition of an "amazing" first meet is. Bodybuilding builds muscle in areas that take up weight on the scale but don't contribute to the 3 lifts you're actually compating in.
This is a much better criticism of powerlifting culture and I agree, for the most part. I've always done a lot of bodybuilding and I think its why I continued to rise with the tide despite slightly above average genetics.
Yep something weird about getting first place trophy in a weight class of 1 guy
There are so many guys in my gym who do powerlifting but never do any volume work and needless to say., they have not progressed in years
This new trend of powerlifters who don’t want to gain mass is so puzzling to me. Everyone I knew before started lifting for the same reason: I want to get bigger. This new generation almost feels perverse; lifting not to get bigger and get stronger, but to have your friends clap for you and get a meaningless medal for placing top 3 in a class with 2 people in it.
I feel like old man yelling at cloud and I’m not even 30 yet. What point is there in lifting big numbers if none of your coworkers even believe that you lift weights? 😂
Why does what your coworkers think matter
Yeah, i started lifting wanting to get bigger. Then i went to nursing school, took pathophysiology, and learned your heart doesn't care if you are 300 lbs of fat or 300 lbs of muscle, it's going to go into heart failure either way. Then I watched a bunch of 300 lb bodybuilders die at ages 25-50.
At that point, i decided i want to be strong, but maybe i don't want to get die at 50 big.
I compete at 165 and i've never had ANYONE doubt that i lift weights. I'll give 99.9% odds that at my weight i look a LOT more like i lift weights than you do, AND that i'm stronger at 165 than you are at your bodyweight.
@@sevourn don’t care post physique or gtfo
@@sevourn you can do a hypertrophy program without going anywhere near 300 lbs, you're not going to get to that natty anyway. Sounds like you're just making excuses for being small. You also make a lot of assumptions about other people and seem to do a lot of projecting.
Personally, I’d search for a powerlifting program because programming to peak for a meet or just testing 1rms is more difficult than just programming for general strength. But if I’m doing a hypertrophy block I just program for my self because as long as you are hitting your volume and overload putting on mass is not that complicated.
As a relative beginner, I went into higher volume, 5 days a week and saw very good gains. However, after a few months I was getting too tired and burned out. I think I should have learned about deload weeks, but I haven't yet. I have started on gzclp program without additions now, and focusing on strength and also started reading your book. We'll see, I hope to add more to my current simple program soon.
Great video. Natural Hypertrophy has a much longer one, with a different bent, about the same topic. How and why powerlifting came to dominate the discussion of fitness/ie lifting heavy shit on youtube and other platforms.
Kind of reminds me of what Doug Hepburn wrote in the 1950s. Although Olympic weightlifting was the only "official strength sport" at the time, weightlifters were expected to be all-around strong at everything and ready to back it up even in non-standard challenges. It was like a reputational thing, you couldn't call yourself a strongman, much less "the World's Strongest Man," if all you could do were the Olympic three but immediately deflated as soon as you left that comfort zone.
Doug Hepburn was 5'8" and walked around at between 285-305 lbs for most of his career; in modern days he would probably water cut to 275. His best power lifts were a 760 lb squat with a 5 second pause, a 525 lb paused bench (580 touch and go with wide grip), and a 705 lb deadlift (740 with straps - he mostly used the deadlift as an assistance movement for the Olympic lifts). There have been a few guys who have surpassed those numbers in powerlifting, but I can't think of anyone in his weight class who can do all of that AND do things like put up a world record Olympic total, strict press 450 lbs off the rack, strict curl 260 lbs (without leaning on a wall - rules were different back then), bend coins with his fingers, or even acrobatic stuff like walking up ladders on his hands or supporting a man doing a handstand on a bar he was pressing overhead. This kind of versatility is something we really only see in strongman, and almost never to this extent.
He was, what CrossFit athletes intended to be 😂
A problem I've recently noticed is advanced lifters using cookie-cutter programs, or at least not heavily personalizing them. After 2-3 years of moderate to high commitment to a given sport, you need to really break down what works for you. Not necessarily what exercises, as injury flows, lifestyle changes, equipment, and weak points will all change, but what structure. SBD/compound heavy days? Accessories coupled with one main movement? Higher relative frequency for a given lift? This and understanding your personal habits and preferences, as I'm a firm believer in that this should be *fun*. Yes, you can tear yourself apart fiber by fiber every workout, but you should be getting a kick out of it.
By combining what you like (say mixing compounds on heavy days) with what actually works for your progression (changing SBD specific variations every few weeks/months with weak points) you will effectively tailor-make your own program with relatively little need for science. Not to say you shouldn't use science, especially at advanced training ages, but cutting a set of bench for an extra set of variations because of some protein synthesis theory instead of doing that last set because you know it works for you would be a good example. Still, find activation ratios for different exercises you can switch between easily, understand the organic chemistry behind fatigue and recovery, create ways to improve your S/F ratio for lagging body parts, but apply this all through a simple filter;
Does it work? Do I like it?
Oh and learn spreadsheets to build your own programs. Maybe find a fitness tracker app.
There was a point I realized I'm too tall to be strong at 150...
I'm 5 6 at 125 do you think I'm to tall to be strong at 125
@@shrexyboi1850 Well, I'm 5'9, 180 at the moment and thinking of bulking up at least another 10lb. Sounds you are in the same spot as me at 150, but make your own judgement.
@@shrexyboi1850 Yes. You would reach your maximum strength potential for your height at around 150-160, depending on your joint sizes. But remember that this is going to take years. You might get close in 5 years, depending on your current age and how you train.
I think his ideas a reflected in power building wich is basically bodybuilding whith a higher focus on the big three
No need to specialize too soon! Cultivate muscle mass and general strength before pursuing niché endeavors no?
I used to believe the powerlifting meme. Now I have so much more fun developing my 3-10RM. I’m getting bigger and stronger as opposed to highly specialized.
One of the reasons I've created the powerbuilding, Westside mish-mash of a program I run is because it isn't HYPER specific to any one thing. I get to lift heavy and train my CNS on my max effort days, while my dynamic/volume days are focused more on hypertrophy. Also, constantly rotating variations and exercise selection in 8 week blocks prevents over use and allows me to continue bringing up all areas of my body at a relatively even pace and lets me focus on weak points that naturally develop over time.
Damn bro gonna turn on Notifications for your vids. When did you become funny and entertaining?
I'm a long time gymbro but fairly new to powerlifting. I spent years just kinda winging it and following advice from friends and channels like yours and others, but after getting to 215lb at 5'10" and fairly lean decided I'm "big enough" for my personal goals, and want to try powerlifting.
I have a ton of respect for Strongman, Weightlifting and bodybuilding. It's not perfect, but I like powerlifting because it is basically just the answer to the question "how much can you lift" on lifts I was already doing. I think after a couple more meets I might train for and try to compete in strongman too, I don't have any delusions about winning but it'd be cool just to hang and see what I can do.
I get where you're coming from about the integrity of sports and the spirit of competition, but I do think accessibility is important for the vast majority of us who are never gonna be world champions. Like yeah, it's good to have role models to look up to, but 99% of athletes aren't pros in any sports. They're the local amateur leagues, school teams, or friends putting something together.
Anyway I do think you have good advice for powerlifters or anyone else. I definitely support programming in cardio, volume and conditioning, variations into main days and GPP workouts. I also think most people who want to get serious about powerlifting should be willing to go through hypertrophy blocks to get up into a weight where their body is operating in peak condition.
I say this to fellow Zoomers on tiktok every day and they don’t wanna hear it
Kinda off topic but the most annoyong thing about Powerlifting for me is this; after competing in about 15 competitions, 3 of which were for my country at International level I can say Powerlifting has become from my perspective "cultish" and closed minded.
I use to train at a Powerlifting only gym which might as well have been sponsored by the IPF, if you didn't compete IPF you weren't strong / you did "fake" competitions, if your Wilks didn't go up you weren't "getting stronger" (even if your absolute strength went up) and getting as much out of your raw small as can be knee sleeves and EXTREME contourtionist arch laying on Bench lift (cant be called a "Bench Press" is what really matters and how you get "stronger."
It really seemed as I got better and as others did we all started to believe this / our hype and turned into something we say we are completely against.
Most of all anyone reading this, get strong, jacked and reach your own goals for yourself, don't let federations and Mob rule control your thoughts about true Strength which is much much bigger and greater than any federation with all its group think, politics and straight up BS!
Thanks for the video Bromley!
Your thumbnails have gotten amazing
I mean, but what if I'm a genetic freak and I don't know it? Isn't it possible I'd wake up a 300lbs mass monster after a hypertrophycycle or two? I'm not sure that's a risk I'm willing to take.
you are right as usual, just call it musclebuilding not bodybuilding..., bc everybody wants more muscle, but most dont want to get on stage with a spraytan in a thong
I'm following Evolve AI training app right now and doing a power building program, and I'm really happy to find that the bodybuilding phases are really broad base and only touch the competition movements once a week. In fact, I get to choose most of my accessories, so can tailor the program to my weak points. It's based off Juggernaut from what I hear, so there are plenty of 10 rep workouts. Today, for example, I'm hitting 5x10 on front squat, followed by conventional deadlift 1x5@8 with a backoff set of 1x8, and then some bodybuilding assistance work. That rep scheme is the same for competition bench and squat within a training week, and usually the main movement isn't the first exercise of the workout, so you're hitting it when you're already slightly fatigued (which is a good thing this far out from a "mock meet" scenario).
My point is, there are certainly powerlifting coaches who "get it" and don't force you into specialized training when you're not in a competition prep. There are a decent amount of supersets built into my routine also. I feel like I'm really building my work capacity while maintaining proficiency in the barbell movements.
I have noticed a big influx of smaller framed powerlifters recently. I just thought that was some new norm
A big problem I have with strength sports is that it’s a simple process that’s intentionally made confusing to push content and/or products. Buzzwords like “build a base” are confusing to noobs. Saying the facts in a simple manner like “strength is how much muscle you can activate on a lift to get the weight up” tends to be more easily understood. All of a sudden the training cycles make sense. You understand that you start a training block by building muscle to increase your strength capacity and then increase the weight to train your muscle activation to find your actual limit and then rinse and repeat. I think a large percentage of people would go very far off of a repeatable program that hits the competition lifts and then allows you to select weak point exercises block by block. For example powerlifting you work up to a top set to maintain familiarity with the competition movement and the rest of the workout is bodybuilding stuff hypertrophy. Right now my hamstrings are my weak link so if training lower/upper/lower/upper in the form of squat/bench/dead/bench I would have perhaps 2/3 of my leg hypertrophy hamstring focussed and 1/3 quad focussed and vice versa as required and carry that basic premis forward as required to all sessions across the training block.
Bernie sanders got really jacked
OG Bromley viewers know he’s got a bone or two to pick with powerlifting😂
It’s really funny that Ronnie Coleman seems to have gotten it exactly backwards
Everybody wants to lift heavy ass weight but don’t nobody want to be a bodybuilder
I think relative strength is useful for certain sports (weight classed sports like wrestling, bodyweight punishing sports like rock climbing), but benchmarking your progress with relative strength definitely seems like a way to limit yourself.
Real life challenges don't care about our bodyweight. It is important only in certain sports like gymnastics, MMA/martial arts, etc. It is a cold truth that we need to accept.
Your weight class does in fact matter in "real life" or "caveman mode" too, the bigger you are, the more energy you'll need, and the more food you'll need to survive. And that can in fact be quite a disadvantage, survival never favored the largest people as even the most novice of anthropologists can tell you, and there is a reason animals have been getting smaller and smaller through millions of years. You have no idea what you are talking about farhan.
@@Kaledrone your point is valid from the perspective of survival that less food and energy is needed to remain alive for smaller person.
My point was from perspective of exerting or exhibiting maximum physical force/strength in situations where it is needed. For example if the situation requires to move or lift a very heavy object or push a dead vehicle, the stronger guy would be better able to do it. And usually but not always, bigger guy tends to be stronger than smaller guy provided that they both have trained with weights.
@@farhanhussain_ the real life challenge of living past 65 cares a whole lot about your body weight.
@@sevourn your point is absolutely correct in that sense. I was actually talking about sports or maybe situations where you have to deal with heavy physical objects. But yes, a healthy weight should be our goal. Athletes have different priorities for their sports so they may want to adjust their weights accordingly.
Powerlifting is a fruity pebble "sport", one or two degrees removed from crossfit. The arts of competitive exercising.
I don't know why powerlifters are so averse to hypertrophy. If it was that easy, everyone doing bodybuilding should be super jacked.
@@tGGgGg-sp9yx yes they all have jacked and impressive physiques. But the average "powerlifter" think that only squat, bench and deadlift are what got them there.
Because hypertrophy in the extreme is unhealthy, and the "classic" eddie hall fat but muscular physique is super unhealthy.
I just do the 9 pharmaceutical tenants from the needle king.
I agree that powerlifting has become a lot more popular in the past few years but don't think it is as popular as you make it out to be. Using your viewers as a database probably has skewed the results. While you talk about getting bigger and stronger I'd say your content leans towards strength and therefore attracts people more interested in that.
When I look around my gym there is maybe a handful of people training for strength.
I wasn't clear, I was comparing the search volume for all of youtube. The tool gives high, med or low rankings across the whole platform so I know what is likely to get searched before I make the video. Powerlifting program is high, all of the others were low.
@@AlexanderBromley well yeah, kinda makes sense. Strongman looks cool! Oh wait, I'm 5'4. Highland games looks cool! Oh wait, I'm 5'4. Surprise, suprise, the strength sport that doesn't arbitrarily lock out most body types is the most popular strength sport.
Yeah I personally enjoy trying to get stronger and lift heavily but if you work with general population and not strength athletes most peoples are goals are primarily physique related with a moderate level of strength, not extreme prioritization of strength in a narrow selection of movements.
Powerbuilding or bodybuilding is probably the best most generic training style for the most people but bodybuilding just has negative connotations regarding drugs and narcissism and eating disorders.
Alot of weak guys watch your channel. That's a good thing.
One of my friends dropped a weight class and got a silver medal at IPF world masters. I don’t know if this was his motivation but there are fewer guys competing in the classes lower than 74kg.
Hey coach, I want to go up 3 weight classes and gain as much strength as possible!
I love lifting, but I do it to build a base of strength which I then apply to other things.
I believe that this is because of prevalent idea that you must start from strength oriented routine like 5x5, SS or 5/3/1 and then earn right to BB work.
Basic linear programs like SS don’t have a disclaimer that you should you only run them for 8-12 weeks before moving on.
So people spin their wheels running them for years because forums like Reddit give the impression that you should only graduate from beginner programs when your total hits a certain number.
When I filled out my frame I just filled out my belt, fat.
Love it bromley. We need more merch !
We all have that 60 yo grandpa in the gym who is powerlifting.
Love their vibe
facts remain strongest men have wheel barrel stomachs.
So my 8 hour arm day is optimal strength work
Why rant? -is that a California thing?
Another thing I noticed is that people who engage seriously in powerlifting are afraid to let go of SBD for a few weeks or months to work on their weaknesses. I mean there’s such a thing as muscle memory.
I definitely agree that it helps to build a wider base. A bit of a tangent but I’m always reminded of Yurik Vardanian: GOATed weightlifter with a very, very wide athletic base.
Like what weaknesses exactly? If i compete in squat, bench, and deadlifts, and those are primarily what i'm training, what "weaknesses" am i supposed to be covering?
My job is to fit as much muscle as humanly possible that can directly increase SBD into 165 lbs of beef jerky, go rehydrate to 195, and then squat, bench, and deadlift.
Every pound of muscle I carry that does not improve those lifts is a wasted pound of muscle taking up dead weight on the.scale.
@@sevourn possible muscle imbalances for one. One example that I can think of is groin being weak from doing so much sumo deadlifts and wide stance squats.
My point being is it’s ok to let go of SBD to give a body a break and to let those lagging weaknesses catch up
@@ShinSuperSaiyajin serious competitors aren't there to get a balanced, healthy set of muscles any more than a world class marathon runner is there to get a fitness model body.
Yes, we are imbalanced. In fact, i continuously fight groin pulls. Should I do a bunch of Copenhagen progressions to correct it at the cost of 3 pounds of pec and tricep muscle? Yeah, no. If you want to be at the top, it's a price you must pay. For the rest of you, i guess it doesn't matter what you do. If you have no hope of setting records, i suppose you can go get a happy little balanced body while you're at it.
@@sevourn I get your point and I do agree that serious competitors are not training for balance.
My case I guess is if you’re not an elite competitor, it won’t hurt to lay off from SBD once in a while for the sake of longevity.
@@ShinSuperSaiyajin well then you should probably take off your part about "people who engage seriously with powerlifting" and replace it with "backyard lifter local yokel competitors" or whatever you people are
Are machines helpful then?
I thought it was ric flair
PL’ing training is orders of magnitude more accessible in terms of equipment than strongman, or BB’ing, and even more so in terms of skill compared to OWL’ing. If one is inclined to compete, it’s also very accessible in terms of competition availability. A million bloody feds with a million meets (in the USA at least) and the outcome becomes predictable 🤷♂️
I'm 5'7 and honestly I like bulking and moving up weight classes doesn't bother me. Long term goal is 225lbs
I will say I am training strongman. But I also must be functional. As I am a fireman. I'm 7 months in. And I have put on a decent amount of muscle. Amd my numbers have went up alot. But there is a DELUGE of information. Most of it contradicts what others say. It's very confusing. So I have to spend hours studying and sifting through stuff that doesn't add up. 🙃. I mainly just focus on keeping my protein as high as I can. As that's really the only thing I can really commit to. Because some shifts we just have to take what we can get food and time wise. On off days I can eat better. Thanks for the video
This is all very interesting! I couldn’t tell you my opinion on newer trends of lifting since by al accounts i am a noob myself 😅 (It’ll be 2 years barbell training in February ) BUT i did trained in other sports before, mainly cycling and yoga/areal arts. So i have noticed slight comments maybe slightly making fun of my “yoga” like “oh yeah go do your yoga” or comments about how my “cycling is too much cardio” here and there never gave them too much thought, i gotta say i think it gives me an advantage with volume and super sets etc but i have notice i have issue putting out my max efforts. So i took this block to build muscle, let’s see what i can get. My front squats went from a max of 185lb to 210lb (for a single) and i still have two weeks in my block!
You mention jiu jitsu in passing which is funny, because the profit model in bjj is very similar to powerlifting and I think the culture being driven by novices is also very problematic in bjj.
Pretty spot on this is why I like the JuggernautAI app. Powerlifting specific with the SBD with a lot volume of secondary word and accessories.
most likely, the results are because your channel is associated with power lifting, not as much body building.
The most obvious thing that makes powerlifting so attractive is that there are only 3 movements to do. This makes it very easy for entry and specialisation since you only need to train 3 movements. For people who can't train like body builders, powerlifting requires far less hours of work. There's nothing wrong with this. It all comes down to goals. If you want to be a powerlifter, that's fine. But if you don't intend to powerlift or if you want to bulk up, the powerlifting training style isn't the optimal way. There are so many other muscle groups that get neglected if you only do those 3 squat, bench and deadlift movements.
Pros with powerlifting: It's very accessible, the bar to entry is extremely low and everyone can give it a crack
Cons with powerlifting: It's very accessible, the bar to entry is extremely low and everyone can give it a crack
here early for once lol
I suck at putting on muscle. I’m trying now, but I absolutely hate it
AB, great Thumbnail; I thought it was Rippetoe - LOL!
Odd question but did you generate the character in your thumbnail with AI?
Ти Бракмата от Америка ли си?
I want to be the weakest bodybuilder so I can get more with less.
Holy shit the video actually starts at 7:40 . Good thing I got fck all to do at work so I still watched it all xD
anything that makes money its most important aspect. will turn to shit
Gaining muscle is hard! I started lifting for reals in July of this year and just hit the calories!! I was 180lbs at about 15/17% BF, started eating +6k per day, and by October I was 205lbs at 25% BF.......now I'm 210lbs at 22% BF. Losing fat is easy as fck, gaining muscle is hard as fck
I like working out. That's all I have to say about that.
Very logical perspective. Thanks for sharing with us.
I know this is a relatively serious video, but number 1 reason why I do powerlifting is because its fun. nothing bores me more than having to train shoulders on its own dedicated day, or arms. I'd rather be doing bench, squat or dead and then finish off with shoulders/arms. other training is boring for me.
A good hypertrophy program doesn't have you dedicate an entire day to 1 single body part.
@@PotatoSlices yeah of course. I'm just using it as an exaggerated example. I just much prefer to dedicate most of my time to heavy compound lifts that's all. That's what feels fun for me.
@@mami3790 thats literally what i do as a bodybuilder though. I just fill in the gaps and use more volume.
The day you stop giving a shit about how strong you are is the day you can start to get big
@@markbaker4425 which is ironically how you get stronger, by getting bigger
Doing only three movements all of the time sounds boring as hell.
Programming and training to add size is very easy compared to optimizing strength.
Also, the recent increase of popularity in powerlifting made a lot of bodybuilders realize that their training is pretty boring and repetitive and made them want to try this new stuff.
I disagree 100%. It's way harder to put on size than it is to gain strength.
@@jaredchalker7914 This might be true for an absolute beginner who still needs to learn the movements, but after those newbie strength gains, gaining muscle is definitely way simpler than gaining strength relative to your bodyweight.
For advanced lifters, optimizing strength can require complex programming, while gaining size is pretty much just a matter of lifting and sticking to your diet.
The opposite - there are fewer things less satisfying than training like a powerlifter. Bodybuilding mogs.
@@jaredchalker7914 Set a base amount of work, train close to failure, add volume each week until you can't recover, deload, repeat.
@@brs9044 I don't have an issue with it bud
But it's irrefutable science.that putting on mass takes longer than strengthen
powerbuilding is where it's at.
Great video mate. I've definitely noticed what you are saying and the negative impacts its had on the average lifter. "Anything more than 5 reps is cardio" "High reps doesn't work for natties" Are quotes I've heard from lifters who haven't experienced enough progress to tell anyone what works. They are even blind to how the best lifters in the powerlifting community they are in achieve success. Russell Orhii hits a few heavy top sets and then bodybuilds. Greg Nuckols once said that the weight classes are really height classes in disguise. Almost all elite 181s are 5'8" or less and carry a lot of mass. Good luck achieving that with nothing but singles doubles and triples. Also, I found that when I focused on powerlifting heavy only type training I could reach a good number on a few specific lifts but the carryover wasn't there and I wasn't really a strong guy. Adding just a bit of muscle makes your strength as a whole go up and carries over and you don't lose large amounts of strength just because you don't train a lift for a few weeks. Nowadays people just run programs that are intended to peak your lifts year round. It's gotten to the point that coaches on instagram that recommend lifts like weighted dips and belt squats are considered revolutionary/heretical. I'm talking like I'm old but I've only been in the game ~10 years and I've seen a big shift from guys training only what they look like, to training strength and size (peak), to now training only what they lift. All thats really been accomplished is helping skinny people post big sumo deadlifts on insta lol
I've never heard any high level powerlifter say any of the things you are saying. Of course you train high reps when you can to minimize injury risk. Weighted dips and belt squats are core powerlifting excercises.
People saying stuff like you mentioned sound suspiciously like some imaginary "powerliftier" strawmen
anyway, in terms of shift in culture, I go with a similar approach to "music was better back in the day!!" which is to say: nah, you've just forgotten all the bad shit, all the novelty bands, all the garbage one hit wonders. I haven't been training as long as you, but I'm quietly confident that there was just as much bullshit 20 years ago, your brain just filtered it out.
Good video tho don't get me wrong, I agree with almost all of it. I just see misplaced nostalgia in a lot of other scenes as well and I'm very sceptical of it.
I actually agree; this video is equal parts 'keep an eye out for how culture changes' and 'old dude mad'.