quick note, Ody did not just try to go as fast as he can through Scylla, he knew six people would die, the lines "Scylla has a price" "Light up six torches" and "Tell me captain, that you did not just sacrifice six men". When he gave the order to light torches, he knew whoever was holding them was going to die, this is also why he just stands there, he is not in danger.
There's also the implication that since he told Eurylicus to "light up 6 torches" that it would be Eurylicus' choice of who dies, including possibly Eury himself (especially after that confession about betrayal).
@@mamaadri1342 It's an assumption you can have, but not really an implication about Ody wanting Eurylochus to die. He just ordered 6 torches, and it is common for Eurylochus to command the crew on Ody's behalf. I would personally imagine Ody was just letting it all be random without getting involved in choosing who in his crew gets to live or die.
For the Wisdom Saga: Legendary - Duvetbox Little Wolf - Duvetbox We´ll Be Fine - Gigi Love in Paradise - Ximena Natzel God Games - Neal Illustrator (ahh im so excited for you to react to this saga)
I disagree with god games I think story wise Anniflama is better neal is %100 better artist but lets be honest she flexed bit too hard and thats ok she does it with every other animatic too and they are all epic.
@raineseth5661 THANK YOU! Rochi's legendary is actually my favorite, duetbox's one is also really good but its a bit of a shame no other artists versions are used.
If it makes it any better, in the original Odyssey, Eurylochus and the crew were basically like "we'll kill the cattle and beg for forgiveness, if we live we'll build a new temple to Helios when we get home but if not, at least getting smited is better than slowly starving to death"
Fun fact about Scylla. When the siren mention Scylla you can hear Circe's motif in the background, that's because it was Circe who turned Scylla into a monster. Scylla was originally a beautiful nymph, her and Circe fell in love with the same guy, but the guy liked Scylla more than Circe, so Circe turned Scylla into a monster out of jealously. I think it makes the part where Ody and Scylla harmonize at the lyric "we are the same you and I" more symbolic since both Ody and Scylla were once good people who got turned into monsters because of their respective problems (and Circe was involved with both of them)
just a little correction, the guy fell in love with Scylla, Scylla didn't want him so he went to Circe so she will brew him a love potion. Circe was madly in love with him, and out jealousy poisoned the water she bathed in, turning her into a monster. another fun fact: in the original myth she has 6 dog heads going out of her abdomen.
Iirc as well Scylla and Carybdis were both daughters of Poseidon and the line scared to go that the siren mentioned is because he viewed them both as abominations. That and while Poseidon is immortal Scylla would definitely try to kill him anyway.
I believe in the og story the reason Zeus shows up is because Helios threatened to take the Sun to the underworld if Zeus didn’t do anything. Zeus is literally just there on business and decided to fuck with Ody to entertain himself.
If you notice Ody doesn't move the entire time during Scylla, he knew it was safe to just stand in one spot because the sacrifices were already decided
Its kinda sad that its so hard to make out what the backround vocals are singing in No longer you. They said "siren song" "scilla throat" "mutiny" "lightning bolt" and something even I can't make out, its just such a great erster egg/spoiler hidden in plain sight
@@maxthegreater1921The last bit is a spoiler for the Ithaca Saga, and it's probably for the best that you can't make out the background vocals since they're a spoiler to the Thunder Saga 😂
@@maxthegreater1921 the other parts seem to be "Fight Poseidon" or something like that and "Kill all the suitors for love". Or at least what people in the internet understand but I choose to believe them lmao
Important note about Scylla: The torches were a beacon for Scylla to eat the man holding them - so he did more than just sail them through it, he basically gave Eurylochus orders to choose six men to die (and in the process ensuring he wouldn’t be one of the six men sacrificed.)
people call him selfish for making sure he wasn't eaten, but look at that crew, he knew there was no chance in hell they were making it back without him
@@felixsonofscouty IMHO one should also consider it would be rightfully his call to make. He is the king and the commanding officer. He is entitled to and burdened with the decision, who lives and who dies to achieve the goal - getting back home. Without the mutiny the majority of the crew had a pretty good chance.
@@fluffythecat8280THANK YOU. Fuck I'm so tired of people not understanding that this story isn't supposed to be cute and that being a pacifist and merciful were considered flaws and faults back then.
I mean… how can we possibly lift him up? It’s based on The Odyssey 😂… Maybe he’ll watch some livestream animations for The Wisdom Saga and one of Aeolus’ Winions will make him smile 😂💜
For the Wisdom saga i recommend: Legendary - Duvetbox Little wolf- Duvetbox We'll be fine - gigi Love in paradise- Ximena Natzel God Games - Neal Illustrator
My favorite thing about Gigi's Scylla is just how much joy Scylla takes in it, she's basically dancing in the water taunting the men being sacrificed. Also, there wasn't a portrayal of betrayal, there were portrayals. The first was the reveal about the wind bag. The second was him betraying his crew to sacrifice them to Scylla. The third was the mutiny. There's still some of Tiresias' prophecy to pass.
I am so so desperate for someone to react to Rochi’s ‘Legendary’ - as far as I can tell no one has reacted to it and it is by far one of my favourite Epic animatics ever…it just captures something really unique about Telemachus that I don’t think others do
About the "double-layer" voice. If I remember right then Jay actually has one voice per head for Scylla, all singing exclusively one note (which sounds hella weird/robotic if it's only one of them), which is how you get that multi-voice effect that's so effective for Scylla
"Eurylochus, light up six torches" Odysseus, after hearing his second in command's confession of betrayal, has him light up and pass out the 6 torches that would mark them as sacrifices to distract the 6 heads of Scylla. He planned for Eurylochus to die in that cave.
Personal animator suggestions for the Wisdom Saga: Legendary: Duvet Box Little Wolf: Duvet Box We'll Be Fine: Gigi Love In Paradise: Ximena Natzel God Games: Anniflamma Great reactions and happy watching!
I think is important to say, you seem to think in the video that Ody's plan to Syclla was flee as fast as he could, and that is true, but he went with the plan of sacrifice 6 men, he knew Scylla have 6 heads and he ask to light up 6 torches. The crew didn't get piss of because 6 people died on a plan gone wrong, but because his plan was to let them die.
There is no way he could escape Syclla. There were 3 choices here: 1- Sail into the storm and get killed 2- Sail into Syclla's place and sacrifice 6 men(anything else would once more mean death since you can't kill her, and she would eat all of them before they got out) 3- Or just never return home
@@kunilsen2519"no other way" yeah, like no way he would escape poseidon, literal god, oh wait, he did, no way he'd rescue his men from circe, oh, divine intervention and he did. That's what Eurylochus talked about. Ody always had a plan, always at least tried do the impossible to save his crew. Now he stopped and ruthlessly sacrificed them
@@danylonazarov But it all failed. He did not escape Poseidon, Poseidan killed all his men. Circe he found common ground with and came to an agreement, so sure. Scylla, how the hell is he supposed to kill her? She has 6 heads, and she is more or less untouchable to them because she has ultimate reach while they cannot touch her What are they gonna do? Swim at her? Eurylochus himself admitted that he would have made the same choice as Ody, it's just that Eurylochus likes to point fingers and blame Ody to feel better about himself. Ody has gotten nothing but pushback for being creative and clever with his solutions. Both from Gods, his crew, and Eurylochus. Can't really blame a man for finally following the rules people and gods force upon him.
As an author, Jorge's writing is an absolute masterpiece. Especially in the newest saga (no spoilers, promise), the build up, and the raw emotion, and the payoff as so many elements and themes come together is the kind of moment I dream of writing!
You’ve got to watch Neal the illustrators animatic for thunder bringer it is insane. Every crew member looks distinct and sure has so much personality.
The difference between Odysseus and Eurylochus is that when Eury opened the bag he had no intent of harming anyone. Many of the crew believed that Odysseus was hiding treasure for himself in the bag, so Eurylochus thought he was doing something for the crew's benefit. Odysseus knew exactly what he was doing when he handed out those torches. He purposefully gave up lives of his men, betraying his role as a captain and protector of his crew.
How Eury thought he was benefiting the crew? Ody is a king, and then a captain, he gets to decide if and how actual treasure is divided once they're home. If the crew focused on sailing they'd have seen how close home they were, but they focused on the silly bag instead. They were greedy.
@@Musiyca The winds constantly told the crew its treasure in bag. Yes, they should have listened to their captain, but do you have guts to say a God is wrong? Also, if they didn't open the bag, Poseidon would have flooded Ithaca the moment they landed.
@@terra4822 which is irrelvant. not only is he king. but HE earned whatever was in the bag he brought back. the best defense they have is that they were stealing from their rightful king. actively betraying him. especially as they go against his direct order. which. btw is treason...
Scylla is a famous Greek sea monster with a tragic tale of betrayal that involves Circe, where she use to be one of the most beautiful nymph but now she stays at a straight. Where she needs six sacrifice to pass or try the impossible task of going through her siblings charybdis who sinks fleets(another famous sea monster and one of my favorite).
Charybdis is also Poesidon's daughter who was cursed(Sorry if im wrong lol it's been a while) Edit: Thats also the reason Poesidon doesn't go near her, in the og Oydessey(he doesn't want to disturb her)
FINALLY (no offense Mattables but I’ve been on the edge of my seat since you’re reaction to the Underworld lol) Edit: This man’s pure SHOCK at Scylla just murdering men is absolutely hilarious to me Also Matt if you see this, Team Eurelocus or Team Odysseus? Personally I’m on Ody’s side in mutant/thunderbringer.
So I just had a thought. If they had kept the siren corpses as torch holders they would have made it home. Clearly Ody knew how many heads Scylla had by telling Eury to get 6 torches. Siren torch holders fix everything
@@Venomtankmod To add to this, in the original myth, the six heads of Scylla were a belt of dogs. I think she also had the head and body of a beautiful woman in the middle and crab legs? Or something to that effect. The love Circe mentioned before was a different ocean God than Poseidon and THAT God was in love with Scylla (either a woman or water nymph, that part gets dicey), so Circe cursed her and she want to hide in that lair next to Charybdis. She sent out her six heads to eat fish, monsters, and sailors that got too close. So, no she wasn’t particularly picky about what she ate, but I doubt she’d consider the sirens as her being a cannibal. After hearing the song, I was curious about Scylla and did some reading to find out what she looked like and what her story was 😅 so I could picture her.
Fun fact! Eurylochus addresses your point about the cows and divine pubishment in the Odyssey. Not going to bring out the quote, but he's basicially like "Starving to death is one of the worst ways to die. I know killing these cows could result in our deaths, but I would rather die at the hands of a god, I would rather drown at sea, than die slowly of hunger. And, if Helios spares us, we will make a shrine to the god upon our arrival home."
We'll be fine - gigi God Games - Neal Illustrator or AnniFlamma (heck watch them both they are worth watching both) I have no preference on the other songs. Some of the songs for vengeance saga have animatics also but have not found a preference for those yet I am glad you are enjoying Epic the Therapy bill
I feel like the difference between Eurylochus’ opening of the bag and Odysseus’ sacrificing the men to Scylla is that Eurylochus didn’t know the consequences of his actions. Sure, he was warned not to open the bag since it held the storm inside, but how was he supposed to know that Poseidon would suddenly show up and kill off the majority of the crew? On top of this, Poseidon is ODYSSEUS’ fault. HE was the one who gave his name away to the cyclops, who then went crying to his father Poseidon. But, in Ody’s defence, he also didn’t know that him giving his name away would have consequences. Ody *did* know about Scylla’s cost, though. The thing I feel we could use to point fingers at Eurylochus for is how he was totally ready to just give up on the men on Circe’s island. Sure, he probably didn’t know how he could possibly turn pigs into men again in the face of this powerful sorceress, but that fact makes him hypocritical to turn against Odysseus who *also* didn’t see any choice but to go through Scylla’s lair. Sorry if this was a lot to read, I just have *lots* of thoughts on this 😅💕💗 (AND sorry if this comment showed up twice, I had to fix some grammar mistakes)
Yes and no. I think you made a good point about Odysseus not knowing the consequences of letting the cyclops live and viving his name. All Athen told him was "No!" Which doesnt solve anything. But Eurylochus was told what would happen. "Don't open this bag, it was the winds of the storm." I think you can logistally understand "okay big storm. Thats a no no." And I think that should outweigh the promise of treasure. And on the island, Odysseus told him "This is the home of the sun god. Kill his cattle, who knows what he'll send." And at this point, they've seen the wrath of the god's first hand. Yet, he still choose to be greedy again in a way. In the book (which I know is different from Epic) Eurylochus basically says "If we kill Helios' cattle and make it home, we will build him a temple. Or he will strike us down here. But it is better to die at the hands of a god than slowly starve." Odysseus never knew what consequences the Cyclops would have because he was just told "no." But Eurylochus was given reason. He was given the truth and knew what would happen. Yet he still chose to act on it in order to make himself better (treasure and no slow death)
@@Lemon-dt4is Thank you! Ody so far has been making choices with very little information, and he has been trying his best to keep everyone alive, it simply has not worked out. The stupidest thing he did was doxxing himself. Everything else was choices he was forced to make with little to no info while trying to learn from the past. (His journey from being merciless and killing a bunch of unaware soldiers as well as a baby --> being kinder and following his friend's wishes for him --> someone who experiences the consequences of mercy --> into someone that has been formed by the gods to become a 'monster') Eurylochus on the other hand got all the info that was needed and still chose his greed. Constantly arguing with his captain(planting seeds of doubt within the crew), going against direct orders in the vain hope of treasures. Starting a mutiny and backstabbing Ody after he sacrificed 6 men I can understand (from Ody's perspective, I think it was the lesser of two or even three evils, but it was still cruel). Now with Eurylochus in charge, having taken down their captain and king, he stupidly kills the immortal cows and then immediately turns back to Ody when things go wrong(exactly as Ody warned them). I personally feel people hold Ody accountable for pretty much everything even if it was out of his hands while pretty much excusing Eurylochus for all his stupid decisions. I don't get it lol
@@kunilsen2519 I understand your feelings on that! I feel like people try to put all the blame on either Eury or Ody, so I tried to dish it out evenly in my comment. If it didn’t seem that way, I apologize! ❤️
@@neaccanonn No need to apologize! I enjoyed reading your comment and thought it was pretty open and fair even if some parts I would personally not fully agree on (The commnt I originally replied to touched on it well) :)
Suffering feels like messing with a bot on tinder, like they get basic info wrong, they try to lure you in (poorly), and when you start making weird requests they break, they they just start repeating the same line over and over because the bot has forgotten what they are supposed to be doing. No I don't speak from experience, why do you ask?
Wisdom Saga recommendations: Duvetbox for Legendary Duvetbox for Little Wolf Gigi for We’ll Be Fine Either Duvetbox or Ximena Natzel for Love In Paradise Nealillustrator for God Games Then the stream for the Vengeance Saga
Troy Saga, Zeus: *The blood in your hands is something you won't lose... All you can choose is whose* Thunder Saga, Zeus: *Someone's gotta die today and you have got the final say... You? Or your crew?*
In Scylla, when she talks about betrayal she is not talking about Eurylochus but rather Odysseus who had planned to sacrifice six men for a safe passage. Thats why she also says they are the same and at the end Odysseus admits it by singing with her
so Scylla demands a sacrifice of six men (one for each head) if you want to get out of there alive. The six torches let her know who will be her tribute... Which is why when Eury told him he was the one who opened the wind bag he made sure Eury would be one of the ones holding a torch. But due to luck he drops his torch and a different crew member picked it up. (also side note the choice was between passing by Scylla, who always takes six men no mater what but will spare the ship, or sail by charybdis, who could possibly be outmaneuvered but if he failed the entire ship would be eaten.)
So fun fact, the depictions of Scylla aren’t full on artistic interpretation. Scylla has 6 heads, ody asked for 6 torches to be lit, one for each head. You could also think that ody was subtly trying to kill eurylochus by asking him to light the torches.
Just not believing someone when they tell you taking a course of action will fuck you over doesn't make you not responsible for fucking people over though. It just makes you an idiot for not listening. Eurylochus was explicitly told what the bag held and had the choice to not open it, Odysseus was basically told 'you have no other option' and thus went with the only thing on the table. Eurylochus is far more responsible for the deaths of the crew than Odysseus, particularly considering they wouldn't have even needed to deal with Scylla if he hadn't opened the bag.
@@thrall898 Sure that's true, but you have to remember ody doxxed himself, Poseidon was coming after them anyways and all those people would still have died. And probably more since they would have been at Ithaca
@@malcolmartsryactually not true. The bag of wind is a test for ody. If he managed to keep it close, he will managed to get home safely and poseidon won’t be able to do anything to him. Why do I say this? Because the gods won’t allow poseidon to do anything to ithaca, the same reason why poseidon didn’t just drowned troy
@@merlinrecon7528 that's incorrect, Poseidon can do exactly wtf he wants as long as it it isn't drastic, in Get in The Water, Poseidon quite literally claims that, "I will raise the tides so high... All of Ithaca would die" and "I'll take your son and gauge his eyes! That is unless you choose to die!" Which fully implies he has all the power in the world he could. And even if you assume that Zeus wouldn't let him drown so many of his people for sacrifices, Poseidon still has all the right to kill Odysseus, his men and possibly Penelope and Telemachus with the excuse of "Odysseus disrespected both him and Polyphemus for blinding him, not kill him" So no.
@@RacketEPIC why do you think he ONLY threatened ody? And not just do it? Why not just simply kidnapped penelope or telemachus and parade them in front of ody? And why do you think after 600 strike, poseidon wouldn’t just go to ithaca and gouge telemachus’s eyes??? BECAUSE he can’t actually do that. It’s all mental manipulation to basically make ody despair (the same reason why zeus have ody kill the infant even tho zeus could kill the infant easily) Poseidon is NOT a god of island, he can’t just do everything he wants to a whole ass island just because he wanted to. Ithaca worship the olympians, has the patronage of athena, under the protection of zeus because of the alliance ody made when helen’s courting happened so NO poseidon can’t do anything to ithaca the same way he can’t do anything to troy DIRECTLY.
Fun thing about Scylla is that the references Jorge gave out to any animatic artists is that he wanted people to leave the theaters - or in this case the animatics - traumatized, basically 😂 So yes, Scylla was meant to be the ultimate scary and ultimate creepy. Scylla's lair or passage is also a place where you kinda can't pass without people dying and it was adapted here so that the cost was "manageable" because, technically, Scylla could have killed the whole crew. Hence the torches, making her focus her hunting instead of going willy nilly. Don't know how Odysseus knew about Scylla in EPIC -we can persume that it's his lessons with Athena or the prophet - but in the Odyssey, Circe was considerably more helpful and an ally than just getting him to the Underworld. He also explained some about how he imagined the siren's song works: basically, their song, once it snares someone, allows them a peep into their mind so they can better lure them into crashing the ship against the rocks of the islands they populate. Because Odysseus and his crew had beeswax in their ears, they only got partial information and had to work based on that, hence the mistakes they made when impersonating Penelophe. Another thing about the sirens: these are not Ancient Greece accurate sirens, these are more mermaids, as sirens are basically bird-women - there are even myths that connect them to the nymphs who used to be companions of Persephone before she was taken by Hades and were then either punished or enhanced by Demeter, Persephone's mother, to better search for her - however Homer never really described them in the Odyssey so they could be either for all we know. All that aside, in the Odyssey it really is one of the most brilliant moves of Greek wits when Odysseus and his crew twarted the sirens. Helios, the sun god, was known for his secret island where he kept his sacred cows. When Odysseus' crew killed some to feed themselves - which in the Odyssey happened not through mutiny but rather a trickery by Zeus that had them stuck on the island for ten days so their supplies from Circe would be used up and they'd go hungry again; they even waited for Odysseus to be asleep again before making their stupid decisions - Helios got so angry that he demanded from Zeus himself to punish them and threatened that he'd take the sun to shine in the Underworld instead of the overworld/human world if they weren't punished. Hence why Zeus was the one Odysseus and co faced in Thunderbringer and not the sun god. Another fun thing is the role Eurylicas has in EPIC vs his role in the Odyssey. In EPIC, he's Odysseus' close friend, SIC and loyal comrade who tried his best but always messed up somehow when it counted the most until he kinda reached his limit in suffering. In the Odyssey, he was actually a secretly envious rival and had tried multiple times to undermine Odysseus, which is also partially how they ended up killing Helios' cows. I love how much the role was changed yet there's still subtle underlines of his original role in his actions. It also bears mentioning that Luck Runs Out and Mutiny really bring out how undecided Eurylicas himself is in EPIC on whether or not Odysseus should rely on his wit to save/lead the crew. In Luck Runs Out, he warned him against relying on wit and basically reaffirmed the opinion on Circe's island in Puppeteer, but in Mutiny he was angry that Odysseus HADN'T used his wit to miraculously save them all from Scylla. (Which may very well be impossible for even the gods themselves considering Poseidon avoids going into her or her counterpart's waters) Ultimately, besides the mess with the Cyclops - which technically ended up involving Poseidon, though in the Odyssey he was already kinda pissy because of the "disrespect" with the Troyan horse - everything else really is the crew's fault because they angered more gods/mythical creatures than Odysseus himself. EPIC doesn't touch upon all the messes they went through but you can bet that Odysseus was a babysitter no one listened to 😅 Good luck with the next two sagas, they're packed with emotion and tension but also a lot of action so they're very fun to experience!
23:49 ACTUALLY her voice is made from the same recording, but layered over a few times and manually edited to make different tones into a harmony- doing this method by itself sounds odd but really fits Scylla as she’s a monster of course she would sound inhuman!
The thing is, i think you are right that he is a sweet, good and clever leader who wants to see his boys get home. It literally is who he is, and that is why its 'no longer him' that gets home. The gods break him
Of course you were still into the sirens after the reveal. I've accepted that you are pretty much down for any feminine looking monster drawn xD Anyways, here are my animatic recommendations for the Wisdom Saga. The stream itself is honestly really good to watch tbh, if that's an option. - Legendary and Little Wolf by Duvetbox (their design choices are honestly pretty peak, and the action in both songs is pretty smooth. There's a lot of other cool little wolf animatics though you should check out nonetheless) - We'll be fine by Gigi (self explanatory. We love Gigi here ❤) - Love in Paradise (Ximena or Britt. Poww. They have some pretty good ones, but Britt is a bit more menacing with the design choices in my opinion) - God Games (Top two animatics would be either Neal Illustrator or AnniFlamma. They both pulled out ALL the stops with the animatics, and is bound to get you slack jawed at the end.)
Yeah, there's a big difference between making a mistake that costs people their lives, and being the Captain with people under your command you're supposed to protect, and a monster comes along, and the Captain goes "Yeah, eat this guy, this guy, this guy, that one, that, and that one, and let us pass.". Which is what Ody did. A difference between a costly mistake and serving up your crew on a silver platter to be eaten.
(I finished the video after writing this, I appreciate you calling me out like that. Like Zeus brings the thunder, I bring the misery) My normal job of providing source material trauma is a bit difficult here as it deviates significantly from the original.... uuummm I guess in the original Scylla was next to Charybdis and they had to choose which painful death to go through and chose the "6 people die" option instead of the "everyone dies" option.... and in mutiny they were trapped on the island for several days, just watching the cows roam around as a storm kept them from leaving before, on the brink of death by starvation, they finally killed a cow
RECOMMENDATION MATT ^^ legendary: Rochi Little wolf: PurpleSky DL We'll be fine: gigi Love in paradise: duvetbox God games: neal illustrator ( again ^^ )
My theory is that thought Posiden is not directly influencing them at this moment, because of him, the sea creatures (such as fish) are staying away from Odysseus. Which is why they can't just fish. Plus, they still have around 50 men to feed.
My one defense for eurylicus is that while he opened the windbag and killed more people, he didn’t INTEND to kill them, whereas Odysseus KNEW 6 people would die and indiscriminately decided that was more acceptable.
For the Wisdom Saga animatics, here are my suggestions! They're listed in chronological order, & I also included the links for any video/s that I mentioned below each song: Song 1 - "Legendary" ~ the best animatic for this song IMO is 100% the one made by Duvetbox, hands down 🥰 "Legendary" by Duvetbox link: ua-cam.com/video/7-PXMTzbEys/v-deo.htmlsi=WOv1wDFggF6NmJkX Song 2 - "Little Wolf" ~ if you're willing/up for it, I personally am still a REALLY huge fan of the animation & art that Jorge had commissioned for the full length of "Little Wolf" for the Wisdom Saga release live stream, & that streams footage is actually still up on his channel, so I'd LOVE if you used the "Little Wolf" livestream visuals for your reaction (if its not too much of a hassle 😅) but its also nbd if you'd rather not deal w/ that, & if thats the case then my runner up animatic suggestion for this song is actually yet another one made by the talented Duvetbox 🥰 "Little Wolf" by Duvetbox link: ua-cam.com/video/BPiJF7rceiA/v-deo.htmlsi=2NjlmGPlZ0zQO3-g There's a bit of explanation that goes w/ the Livestream footage links, plus this won't be the only song I mention it for, so I'm gonna put those links & said explanations/info down at the very end of my comment instead so it doesn't take up too much space up here 😅☠️ Song 3 - "We'll Be Fine" ~ for this song I recommend the animatic made by Gigi 💕 "We'll Be Fine" by Gigi link: ua-cam.com/video/DR26QjyF__g/v-deo.htmlsi=YnjWG6CHpsyT7ThS Song 4 - "Love in Paradise" ~ for this song I once again HIGHLY recommend reacting to the Wisdom Saga Livestream footage for this song if you're up to it (this song has multiple different INCREDIBLE visuals/animations from a handful of artists occurring back to back throughout pretty much the entire song, w/ the only exception being literally like mayyyybe 2 or 4 lines TOTAL that lacked any commissioned art), but if not then I personally prefer the animatic made by Duvetbox, & the one by Ximena Natzel is a very close second favorite of mine as well (even tho the Duvetbox one is genuinely my #1 favorite for this song, I figured I should still include an alternative suggestion too, since I assume you probably wanna at least TRY to have some artist/creator variety for your reaction video, rather than just react to Duvetbox for over half the songs in the saga lol 🤣) "Love in Paradise" by Duvetbox link: ua-cam.com/video/lpVWEq_wIrs/v-deo.htmlsi=a2IeraagQaP0an8k "Love in Paradise" by Ximena Natzel link: ua-cam.com/video/Uq3gSWvjI7Y/v-deo.htmlsi=U4akAn7EIEFAWmeH Song 5 - "God Games" ~ ok, ik I've already brought it up twice, but if for some reason you were to choose just one of the songs to react to the Wisdom Saga Livestream footage of, THIS is the one I'd want you to do the most of any of them. I can't really explain much about exactly WHY I feel that way - beyond just emphasizing that the Livestream visuals for "God Games" were SO cool, SO creative, & were done SO INCREDIBLY WELL - w/out possibly getting spoilery. However, once again I totally understand if you don't wanna deal w/ whatever hassle might come w/ this livestream reaction route (if there is any, that is; idek for sure if there'd be any more &/or less difficulty than reacting to a regular animatic - I'm not a reactor or content creator myself, so I am by NO means ANY kind of expert on how all that behind the scenes stuff works 😅), so for my stand alone animatic suggestion for this song, my ABSOLUTE favorite W/OUT QUESTION is the one by Neal Illustrator 😍 "God Games" by Neal Illustrator link: ua-cam.com/video/z_5Hokpu0vg/v-deo.htmlsi=1vIV-23ut1zUcOq4 **Livestream Stuff** In case you didn't already know, the Wisdom Saga Livestream footage is actually split into 2 parts/videos (I'll explain why in a moment 😅🤣☠️) Wisdom Saga Livestream (Part 1) link - ua-cam.com/users/liveXwx0X4O91Kk?si=1yxRUjvlk3l4AnQK Wisdom Saga Livestream (Part 2) link - ua-cam.com/users/liveC3ctXVWMBXc?si=hUQ2Aw-J4ipGiym4 So the Wisdom Saga itself starts in Part 1 @ the timestamp 1:32:05 w/ song #1 "Legendary", then #2 "Little Wolf" starts at 1:35:20, & #3 "We'll Be Fine" begins at 1:38:35, but then #4 "Love in Paradise" is where it gets a bit tricky 😅🤣 So that song still starts off in Part 1 as well - @ the timestamp 1:40:41 - but then only a little bit later, while still right in the middle of that same song - around 1:43:05-1:43:10-ish - is when the original livestream had gotten abruptly cut off by yt (& for a freakin COPYRIGHT violation of all things no less 🤯 - like seriously tho, what violation?!?! Jorge WROTE/CREATED/OWNS THE DANG MUSIC THAT HE WAS STREAMING, WYM?!?! Make it make sense 😭😅🤣☠️), so it only took about 15-30secs of the live chat absolutely LOSING it for Jorge to realize what happened (the live chat VERY quickly descended into most of us in all caps yelling "CAPTAIN?!?! CAPTAIN!!!" while a handful of others just popped off w/ insanely quick wit & started using all sorts of Epic quotes/memes to make some pretty hilarious &/or messed up jokes in chat as well 🤣☠️) So he ended that Livestream & then started a whole new one (aka Part 2) in which he 1st set the player back to an earlier spot in song #4 "Love in Paradise" (as to ensure nobody missed anything) before getting the live itself up & running & then hitting play again (song #4 starts playing again in Part 2 around the 1min timestamp or so) & then once that song is finished, song #5 "God Games" begins at the timestamp 4:54 & ends around 10:24 - w/the last
Remember when the prophet said "portayals of betrayal?" notice how he said "portayals" and not "portayal" because there is no "one" betrayal. Eury opening the bag, ody sacrificing the 6 men to Scylla, Mutiny, etc.
Everyone was betrayed and made betrayal in some kind of way. From pleasing the will of Zeus with the baby, to offending him with the cow, to Aeolus, Circe, Polyphemus, etc. Conflicting desires will always end with one party hurt, then feeling forced to hurt in retaliation. I love the dualism
Zeus goes down to deal with them for two reasons 1) He just loves fucking with mortals, in every sense of the world. 2) Helios did threaten to turn off the Sun if he didn't go and punish Odysseus, as Helios himself could not go to Earth to do it. However being Zeus, I think reason 2 was very much just a convenient excuse for reason 1.
Great video as always ^_^ Always love seeing people's reactions to Scylla and Zeus My personal recommendation for the Wisdom Saga is: Legendary - Duvetbox Little wolf - Duvetbox We'll be fine - Gigi Love in Paradise - Duvetbox God Games - Neal illustrator Love all of these animatics, especially Neal illustrator's God Games, can't say why for spoilers but its so good ^_^
OK SO… Wisdom Saga suggestions: 1. legendary - duvetbox 2. little wolf - the traveling pen (small creator- EXTREMELY talented) 3. we’ll be fine - gigi 4. love in paradise- ximena natzel 5. god games - neal illustrator
Fun fact; Scylla has ties to another major character in the EPIC musical, that being Circe. In some myths, Circe was in love with the Sea God Glaucus (hence Circe's line 'I have been in love once before' in There Are Other Ways), but the guy only had eyes for Scylla. To try and get a chance with him, Circe poisoned the water Scylla was bathing in, turning her into the monster she is in the Odyssey.
Idk if you will ever see this comment but I wanted to let you know that this is probably my favorite reaction to this saga that I have ever seen (and I have seen A LOT!!) *The fact that you don't judge or demonize Odysseus until the very end* (well except the one moment where he really DID go overboard with his cruelty against the sirens, but in that moment is actually fair yk) *means so much to me, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for that.* You wouldn't believe how many people do. It's pretty insane. I honestly think on specifically the "It's no longer you" Tiresias (the seer) can't be taken too literally. Because while Odysseus does change in some ways, especially because he gains and goes through so much experience, he doesn't actually change his true *core* self. Ever since becoming the "Monster," he has embraced a ruthless mentality and he needs to learn for himself that it's not the right way to go. However, it's important to recognize that this "Monster" is not the true Odysseus, but rather a situational/trauma response. He acts this way because he thinks it's necessary to reach his goal, not because he truly wants to or condones it. It's crucial to consider the bigger picture of what someone has gone through in order to understand their actions. People should not be judged solely based on their darkest moment. And I assume that they did eat the siren tails, but we don't actually know how much time passes between Different Beast and Mutiny so they may not have lasted that long. In regards to Scylla, others already mentioned that the six torches marked the deliberate sacrifices (Scylla's "cost"). Odysseus had to decide between sacrificing 6 of his men, matching the number of heads on Scylla, or risk everyone dying in a battle with her. It was a choice between two evils, with no clear right or wrong path. Ultimately, he chose to sacrifice 6 in order to save the rest, a ruthless but potentially life-saving decision considering the potential casualties in a fight against Scylla (considering even Poseidon is scared to cross her, that should mean something.) He gave the (unintentional) choice whom to sacrifice to Eurylochus, and then turned away because he very likely didn't want to see or know. Allowing him to unknowingly select sacrifices might have been the punishment for the wind bag, but there is no concrete evidence that Eurylochus was supposed to die himself as some people seem to insist. Personally, I think allowing Eurylochus to pick the sacrifices is fair. If there's already a need to sacrifice men, let the one who is actually to blame for their situation do it. THANK YOU by the way for being pissed at Eurylochus who IS to blame for so many casualties, and never actually takes accountability for it despite the apology. In Mutiny ... Honestly as much as I understand why he's mad from a "he's just human" perspective, you're so right that Eurylochus is the last person to be complaining about now. The song is heart-wrenching because it shows that Odysseus still cares about his crew despite everything, and is determined to help them all return home. During his desperate attempts to get them off the island he completely abandons trying to sound or act ruthless as well. He made that sacrifice of six to get the others through and then this ... Well, they doomed themselves, so nothing that can really be done. And then the MOMENT they run into trouble Eurylochus immediately goes back to calling Odysseus "captain", despite leading a mutiny a few hours (?) ago. It seems he didn't want to carry all the power and blame himself after all. I don't mean to be too critical of Eurylochus, as he's a compelling character and his actions are understandable from a human perspective, but it's important to acknowledge that he was the original traitor and his hypocrisy is clear. This part of the story just beautifully demonstrates how subordinates frequently blame their superiors for their tough and often ruthless decisions, but when faced with the same responsibility, they crumple immediately. Now THUNDER BRINGER is imo one of the best written songs in the musical. The lyricism in it is simply top notch, even though Zeus is technically very off when blaming the crime Odysseus' men committed on pride. "Pride is a damsel in distress, hiding away where only I can undress her" ... He claims exclusive ownership of pride (which I suppose holds true if he's the one making the rules). "Try as she can not to confess, in the end they're all the same once I apply all the pressure." ... This is maybe not true in the way he intended it, as in a sense of "everyone becomes evil or flawed when stripped of pride and humbled." But then again, Odysseus did just indirectly kills the rest of his crew, so perhaps it's too soon for me to say that lol. Not that I blame him considering they just mutinied, stabbed him in the back, and then tried to kill some immortal cows against his explicit order/advice... Either way, my most genuine condolences to Odysseus for having to live with that burden... He really does embody sheer misfortune, never having signed up for any of this, yet here he is... alone now. ANYWAY LONG RANT OVER... Yes we all did enjoy the Vengeance saga very much it was incredible... You'll get to join us soon. Hey, maybe you'll get to the Ithaca saga on release day at least (that's the final saga, it doesn't have a release date yet but probably sometime at the very end of the year. Jorge likes to release these on holidays, so maybe Christmas or New Years?) For the next saga (Wisdom Saga) I would highly recommend Legendary by Duvetbox Little Wolf by Krieo (I KNOW PEOPLE LOVE DUVETBOX' LITTLE WOLF BUT THIS ONE IS JUST SO MUCH BETTER AT THE EMOTIONS IMO 🥺) We'll be fine by gigi Love in Paradise by mikuchi or Gaia Ruggenini (both HIGHLY underrated) God Games by Anniflamma or Neal Illustrator (honestly I prefer Anni's for the ending, but Neal does nail the middle section of this song ... If at all possible somehow I would recommend watching both, even if one in your own time)
The thing in my opinion about Eurylochus is that compared to his things Odysseus sacrificed those men consciously. He didn’t know what would happen with the bag how could he know the Winons couldn’t be trusted and after polities died many others did because ody froze which would be a chance of lost trust. He tries to tell ody immediately but is brushed off and immediately in his perception “loses” more men to Circe. He couldn’t predict Hermes showing up and had that not been the case ody would have infact died. Either way knowing the results and hindsight he would’ve taken back everything but Odysseus who has been acting odd ever since the underworld the one who is supposed to protect them and the one who never left a man behind if he could just sent him to unknowingly pick the deaths of six men he spent the last 13 years with and with hindsight would not have done anything differently. The man you trusted for years someone brotherly to you and if you had kept that torch you wouldn’t be speaking right now. “If you want all the power you must carry all the blame” I don’t think eurylochus wanted that power I think he’s hurt that Odysseus given that power in his perception just LET six friends die for which he doesn’t fully even know the context of because he didn’t speak with the siren. Eurylochus’s actions that have haunted him weren’t conscious but Odysseus’s actions that led to death were he just resigned to that fate. That’s the crux of his motivation. Sorry for yapping im not like upset at all I'm just very passionate about his character and kinda annoyed at how lots of ppl don't even really try to understand him
@@Hardleyheckling Oh, please never apologize for yapping about Epic! I actually love your comment every much. If I came across as villainizing Eurylochus or anything of the sort that wasn't my intention. I actually really love his character and what he does for the story, just I think that the narrative itself doesn't emphasize the share of the blame that he carries for the situation enough. While I don't think there was any excuse to open the wind bag after 9 days especially (after 1 day maybe, but like Odysseus went up there in a storm and came back and the storm was gone and then continued to be gone for as long as the bag was closed, as he said, for THAT long, I think that in and of itself is a pretty good reason to think he's telling the truth). But then I also think if Odysseus had approached Eurylochus and asked him openly to keep an eye on the bag while he slept, he likely wouldn't have opened it. Same with Scylla-I get why he didn't tell the crew about it since that may have caused a panic but he might have told Eurylochus as his second. Basically what I'm trying to say is the issues between them are 100% rooted in mutual distrust. Eurylochus didn't trust him first, confronted him in front of the crew, leading to Odysseus not trusting him when he really should have with the bag, leading to more distrust. Odysseus shut him down when he wanted to confess the bag thing, pushing him further away, and Eurylochus didn't ask about his motivation or thought process behind making the sacrifice to Scylla, he just immediately resorted to a mutiny. It's basically like, mutual lack of attempts to understand each other and/or maintaining their closeness. Btw I didn't necessarily mean Eurylochus wanted the power for powers sake, I meant that he must have thought he could lead the crew better than Odysseus since he mutinied, even if it was not out of hunger for power. And then he failed immediately. I fully understand why you're yapping btw I dislike people who don't try to understand characters and just sh*t on them for shallow reasons as well. If I came across that way I apologize 😭 Maybe I'm just jaded bc I've seen too many people villainizing Odysseus for exactly such shallow reasons, but I can imagine the same being done to Eurylochus or anyone else. Honestly NO ONE in this musical is truly evil or malicious except some of the gods and/or monsters such as Poseidon or the sirens. Not all of them either, which just means the character work is all the more incredible.
Here's the thing with Scylla (and to an extent Mutiny). If you don't fight Scylla, she will always kill six men, regardless of different things The big difference the Torches made was ensuring that Odysseus would survive, which is why he doesn't act in the latter half of the song, because he knows the six dead will not include him. And in regards to the moment Eury starts calling Odysseus Captain again, I see that in a very different light, instead encapsulating what he said earlier in the song. He screwed up in a very bad way, and in reacknowledging Odysseus authority he accepts that he screwed up dramatically. And I don't think making Eurylochus unknowingly pick six friends to die is "fair" as any sort of punishment. It's an incredible level of cruelty and Odysseus should be called out for. I'm sympathetic to Ody and want him to get home, but his actions during Scylla are completely unexcusible, because as I said prior, he opted to, without letting anyone on his crew know, cosign six random men to death without their knowledge just so he could live and he could get home. If he's going to make that choice he should not make someone else choose who dies, he's chosen that six men would die, he must be the one to make the choice of who. Finally, intent means a lot to me, which is why I don't understand calling Eurylochus a hypocrite when itt comes to the Wind Bag. Eurylochus 100% fucked up there and I won't defend him, but the deaths that followed should not be place on his nor Odysseus hands, only on Poseidon, the God who killed them. The difference with the Wind Bag compared to Scylla is that Eurylochus never intended a single one of his friends and comrades to die, Odysseus fully intended on letting six men die so he could live, and that's inexcusable Now with all that said, I want to be clear that I don't see Odysseus as a villain and I want him to get home and all that, I still root for him. But that doesn't mean I won't point out things hhe did that I fully think are awful things to do and should not be excused. No one in this musical is pure good or evil, but Odysseus in the Thunde Saga does Ruthless things to people who consider him a friend and a leader, and that is unacceptable for a leader, a Captain, a King, to do.
I feel like so many people put too much blame on Ody. Don’t get me wrong, he definitely makes mistakes, but for the most part he usually makes good decisions and is smart about things. It sucks but I dont blame him for choosing himself over the crew after their betrayal.
Now that we’ve reached the Thunder Saga, I can tell you that the souls behind the prophet were saying things, as well. We don’t only know the first four, though. In order, it goes- Siren song. Scylla throat. Mutiny. Lightning bolt. Not sure about the final two. One sounds like it says Poseidon, though.
9:20 - "We all knew it": well you say that, but for the release party livestream there were no animatics to hint to us, only lyric videos, and Jay had explicitly said he was not including the sirens, so many of us didn't. The whole chat filled up with several instances of "wait, what?", like when she said 'daughter' and when the screen showed nothing but the caption 'Odysseus shoots Penelope'. He also kept the titles of Suffering and Different Beast secret right up until they played for the first time, only calling them Song 21 and 22.
For the next saga, I would recommend (also an important side note): Legendary- DuvetBox Little Wolf- DuvetBox We’ll Be Fine- SincerelyMaxx Love in Paradise- Michus or DuvetBox God Games- Here, I’d actually recommend the original livestream. It’s on Jorge’s channel, and the last part of the second half (they got split into two) streams. It’s multiple animators, and _so cool._ If you’d rather stick with fan animations, I recommend AnniFlama or Noir.Hyacinth, but people are going to ask for Neal Illustrators’. Theirs is well animated, however, it is _very_ strenuous on photosensitive viewers. (Speaking from personal experience). If you’d want to do two, like with Wouldn’t You Like, I’d like to kindly ask that you play that one last. Thank you 🩵
"half-cannibalisim that's half-bad.." 😂 And I loove Eurylochus calling Odysseus Ody and their talk happening after mutiny, it's heartbreaking! And golden blood (like gods) on cows because they're immortal is SO GOOD on that animation :D Also I think it's implied Eurylochus was so done he knew he would get killed when killing the cow but he didn't care..
The only suggestion (even though I know it could be too late for it) I have for the next saga is the last song: God Games by Neal Illustrator. I think it's her best work so far
(Haven't finished the video yet but...) In defense of Eurylochus in Mutiny, during Keep Your Friends Close, he did not open the wind bag with the intent to get most of them killed by Poseidon. In Scylla, Odysseus made the conscious decision to sacrifice a handful of the few left - mostly for his own benefit. I believe you even mentioned in Keep Your Friends Close that instead of staying up for nine days, Odysseus should've given Eurylochus the task of guarding the bag while he slept, and if Ody had shown some trust instead of guarding the bag like it's some big secret, maybe SIC wouldn't have been tempted to sneak a peek at what their Captain had been hiding from them. (I mean, in the end, though, even if they'd made it home without opening the bag, Poseidon could've drowned the entirety of Ithaca in an attempt to enact revenge instead of facing them out in the middle of the ocean, so...)
I see you making correlation between "No Longer You" and the events after that song and you were right with the "song of past romance" being about the sirens but the "sacrifice of man" is actually about Scylla then "I see portrayals of betrayal and a brother's final stand" is about Mutiny. The rest of the things the prophet says will be seen in later Sagas
for the wisdom saga: legendary - duvetbox little wolf - duvetbox we’ll be fine - gigi love in paradise - duvetbox god games - Anniflame ! I do really hope you take these creators into consideration! I think you can really tell which ones my favorite 😭, I’m excited for you to react to the wisdom and vengeance saga next upcoming!
The thing is: Eurylochus didn’t open the wind bag thinking it was the literal storm. The entire game with it was that Ody had to keep it closed, while the winions convinced everyone else it was treasure, and Ody keeping it with him at all times. So the crew legit thought that thing had treasure in it and Ody was hiding it from them. Still stupid but the point is that he didn’t open it knowing it would get people killed. Ody on the other hand with Scylla, knew that in order to pass through he would have to sacrifice 5 men, one for each of her heads, and he didn’t tell anyone that was going to happen. No nobody but him knew they were going to Scylla bc they all had the wax in their ears. So Odysseus intentionally sacrificed their friends, and *that* is what Eurylochus is mad about
Great reaction as always! I do gotta defend my boy Eurylochus (the one with the big ass sword) though. I dont think its entirely fair to fully blame Eurylochus opening the wind bag for the fleet getting massacred. Obviously while he does share some of the blame, it is Odysseus that spared the Cyclops and revealed his name, allowing Poseidon to identify and find them. Eurylochus just brought them closer. So they are both to blame for that one. Also, there is a difference between making a mistake that leads to deaths and knowingly sacrificing people (which if somebody hasn't already informed you, Odysseus making the crew light up six torches was him offering six men as a sacrifice for safe passage through Scylla's lair, which is why Eurylochus was so mad. It doesn't help that Odysseus originally intended for Eurylochus to be sacrificed too, but Eurylochus dropped his torch at some point so somebody else died instead).
I wonder if Scylla wouldn’t have accepted the sirens because they weren’t enough of a sacrifice? I don’t remember how it worked in the original story, but maybe she only wanted something that was valuable to Odysseus? Like some random sirens they were going to kill anyways wouldn’t be much of a sacrifice to them.
@Chromaggia In the original story, there actually was no sacrifice. In the Odyssey, Scylla and Charybdis were almost right next to each other and the crew had to sail in between them. There's a moment where they're distracted by Charybdis, and Scylla attacks and snatches six men off the deck^^
I know I'm late to the Video, but I wanted put down my suggestions for Wisdom Saga: 1. Legendary by Roshi 2. Little Wolf by Duvetbox 3. We'll Be Fine by Kisu Doodles 4. Love in Paradise by Mikuchis 5. God Games by Noir.Hyacinth Great work! Always a pleasure to watch you videos!
Okay, but no one is in the wrong for mutiny I understand Eury caused 500+ men to die, but he only wanted closure for what was in the bag, and he didn’t mean to kill ppl accidentally. But on odysseus’s side, he purposely sacrificed 6 men (bc scylla has 6 heads to feed) only because there were no other solutions to get home So technically they are both wrong, but they have their own reasons.
I always wondered why Odysseus hears the Siren’s song during thunder bringer and not his actual wife. But I read a comment somewhere and it made perfect sense. He’s been away from home for 13 years at this point and despite it not actually being his wife, it was her voice, her face, the first time he’s seen or heard her since he left home. It’s the freshest “memory” he has of her.
My thoughts on the fishing issue: Poseidon hates Ody and his crew, so do you really think he'd allow them to fish in his waters? Because even prior to the journey, Ody and crew snubbed Poseidon and didn't give a proper sacrifice, hence "I've been so GRACIOUS"
I think you're the first reactor I've seen that actually related No Longer You to what happens in the Thunder Saga like that lol Most at least get the betrayal part but you caught everything else pretty well As someone whose second favourite song from the entire musical is No Longer You, based af edit: your rant during Mutiny is literally me lmao
I NEED you to react to the original livestream for the wisdom saga. The animatics Jorge uses in the livestream are animatics he personally commissioned so they are as accurate to his vision as possible. Also, Ody did indeed willingly sacrificed those men. The 6 torches he had handed out were basically beacons for Scylla, one man for each of Scylla’s heads. And really he didn’t have much of a choice. It was either they fight their way out and lose a bunch more people, or choose 6 people to die. And fun fact, Helios is god of the sun in Greek mythology before it became Apollo. Helios has a herd of immortal cows that he considers his friends and when he saw that Ody’s crew tried to kill one of his cows he went to Zeus and threatened to take the sun to the underworld. Now if he did that it would be hell because nothing would grow. It would basically be an apocalypse, and the gods want people alive to worship them. So Zeus stepped in.
MATT! If you see this! You have to know if you don’t! In the close to the end of No Longer You! You can hear like a choir in the background and was telling the future of the thunder saga!! “Siren Song” “Scyllas throat” “Mutiny” “Lightning Bolt” AND some from the future sagas you’ll see! “Fight Poseidon” “Kill All The Suitors for LOVE!”
At the end of thunder bringer ody is being charged by all his crew, but he doesn't back away, or move. He knows he's safe because he LITERALLY has a god backing him up. Also, Neal illustrator does my absolute favorite thunder bringer animatic, if you want to see a differently egotistical version of Zeus, which is pretty much cannon, Zeus is narcissistic AF
For the Wisdom saga I would say to watch Jorge's livestream! The Wisdom saga has some of the best Official Animatics! But if not that. Legendary - Rochi Little wolf- Duvetbox We'll be fine - Gigi Love in paradise- Duvetbox God Games - AnniFlamma or Neal Illustrator. AnniFlamma is more story accurate and have really cool God designs based on their Sacred animal! Neal Illustrator is more epic scaled, and kinda like a Video game fight! I like both equally so, either will would be cool : D
u are one of the only persons i see who feel the same way i did the first time i saw mutiny like this damn crew man 😭 they really forgot Ody is still king
While Eury absolutely deserves blame for opening the bag, you gotta remember that his argument is not that men were killed, it was that Odysseus _knew_ that six people were going to die, like he actively made that decision, as opposed to Eury who opened the bag before anyone even knew that Posideon was the cause of the storm
I am in love with your Epic reactions, your energy and assumptions are so entertaining and I can’t wait for you to catch up! ☺️ also to note when Eurylocus opened the wind bag, they were so close to home they could actually see it. That’s what made it more upsetting because they were that close to home 🥲 I will be rewatching these reactions and be on the lookout for your upcoming ones! Welcome to the Epic community! 🥳🩷
quick note, Ody did not just try to go as fast as he can through Scylla, he knew six people would die, the lines "Scylla has a price" "Light up six torches" and "Tell me captain, that you did not just sacrifice six men". When he gave the order to light torches, he knew whoever was holding them was going to die, this is also why he just stands there, he is not in danger.
There's also the implication that since he told Eurylicus to "light up 6 torches" that it would be Eurylicus' choice of who dies, including possibly Eury himself (especially after that confession about betrayal).
@@mamaadri1342 It's an assumption you can have, but not really an implication about Ody wanting Eurylochus to die.
He just ordered 6 torches, and it is common for Eurylochus to command the crew on Ody's behalf. I would personally imagine Ody was just letting it all be random without getting involved in choosing who in his crew gets to live or die.
Also the thought that only Ody read the lips so no one in the crew knew what they where they were going or what was waiting for them :'(
@@kunilsen2519 the implications are from the animatics and not the song itself, so its "creative liberty" on their part
@@maxthegreater1921 U right, I was speaking from the song only
The face I made when he said “I think he’d be happy if he got his men home at least”
… well YOU SEE 😂
I somehow do this EVERYTIME...
@ Your predictions are like eerily accurate…can’t wait till you get to the vengence saga!
Many Casper-esque nat 1s being rolled today
FOR REAL 😂 "Sweet summer child" seems appropriate
@@Mattables I was like, "Oh boy, you're batting 100 here."
For the Wisdom Saga:
Legendary - Duvetbox
Little Wolf - Duvetbox
We´ll Be Fine - Gigi
Love in Paradise - Ximena Natzel
God Games - Neal Illustrator
(ahh im so excited for you to react to this saga)
Oml I love Neal’s God games!!!
I disagree with god games I think story wise Anniflama is better neal is %100 better artist but lets be honest she flexed bit too hard and thats ok she does it with every other animatic too and they are all epic.
Anniflamma god games is better
Rochi's Legendary is criminally underrated
@raineseth5661 THANK YOU! Rochi's legendary is actually my favorite, duetbox's one is also really good but its a bit of a shame no other artists versions are used.
If it makes it any better, in the original Odyssey, Eurylochus and the crew were basically like "we'll kill the cattle and beg for forgiveness, if we live we'll build a new temple to Helios when we get home but if not, at least getting smited is better than slowly starving to death"
Hunger is heavy. It drives us.
"that is not a siren, that is a full-blown alarm" I loved it hahahha😂
I actually cackled a bit too loudly when I first hear him say that 💀
had to pause to finish laughing at that one
Pure comedic genius
13:20 "I'm sure he'd be happy if could at least get his boys home and not him", my dude, my guy, love of my life, you couldn't be more wrong hehehe.
:3
I was just standing here shaking my head as he said it...
I mean it really shouldn't be much of a surprise. Very first song of all he said i would trade away the world to see my son and wife XD
@@madamlefreak1781 "Deep Down I would TRADE THE WORLD TO SEE MY SON AND WIFE I'M JUST A MAAAAAAAAN...... But when? does a comet become a metor?"
@@scorpioneldar when does a candle become a blaze, when does a man become a monsterrrr
Fun fact about Scylla. When the siren mention Scylla you can hear Circe's motif in the background, that's because it was Circe who turned Scylla into a monster. Scylla was originally a beautiful nymph, her and Circe fell in love with the same guy, but the guy liked Scylla more than Circe, so Circe turned Scylla into a monster out of jealously. I think it makes the part where Ody and Scylla harmonize at the lyric "we are the same you and I" more symbolic since both Ody and Scylla were once good people who got turned into monsters because of their respective problems (and Circe was involved with both of them)
just a little correction, the guy fell in love with Scylla, Scylla didn't want him so he went to Circe so she will brew him a love potion. Circe was madly in love with him, and out jealousy poisoned the water she bathed in, turning her into a monster. another fun fact: in the original myth she has 6 dog heads going out of her abdomen.
@dustyroo666 oh thanks for sharing! I feel so bad for Scylla now bro. She didn't sign up for this
That's from Ovid, iirc. A later writer. In Homer's work, Scylla was born the way she is. Up to you which interpretation you go with, of course.
Iirc as well Scylla and Carybdis were both daughters of Poseidon and the line scared to go that the siren mentioned is because he viewed them both as abominations. That and while Poseidon is immortal Scylla would definitely try to kill him anyway.
Penelope, wHy? YoU KnOw I'M ToO ✨️sHy✨️ 👉👈
_canonically tucks hair behind ear_
Yesss lol@@icemagiciangh
@@icemagicianghive seen that mentioned, where was it established as canon?
@@Cl0udlight Jorge did it during a livestream. Everyone ran with it, like with high fiving Athena in WOTM
Pernerlerpr wer
I believe in the og story the reason Zeus shows up is because Helios threatened to take the Sun to the underworld if Zeus didn’t do anything. Zeus is literally just there on business and decided to fuck with Ody to entertain himself.
Yap, That happened
Hades:WHY ARE YOU THREATENING TO BRING THINGS INTO MY HOME!!?! GET OUT!!!
If you notice Ody doesn't move the entire time during Scylla, he knew it was safe to just stand in one spot because the sacrifices were already decided
"Song of past romance?" He got it within 10 seconds
Its kinda sad that its so hard to make out what the backround vocals are singing in No longer you. They said "siren song" "scilla throat" "mutiny" "lightning bolt" and something even I can't make out, its just such a great erster egg/spoiler hidden in plain sight
@@maxthegreater1921The last bit is a spoiler for the Ithaca Saga, and it's probably for the best that you can't make out the background vocals since they're a spoiler to the Thunder Saga 😂
@@traviswelty3806 I get that its a spoiler, but I still think its really cool he put it in
@@traviswelty3806 the background vocals spoil the thunder saga, the vengeance saga and the ithaca saga
@@maxthegreater1921 the other parts seem to be "Fight Poseidon" or something like that and "Kill all the suitors for love". Or at least what people in the internet understand but I choose to believe them lmao
Important note about Scylla: The torches were a beacon for Scylla to eat the man holding them - so he did more than just sail them through it, he basically gave Eurylochus orders to choose six men to die (and in the process ensuring he wouldn’t be one of the six men sacrificed.)
people call him selfish for making sure he wasn't eaten, but look at that crew, he knew there was no chance in hell they were making it back without him
@@felixsonofscouty IMHO one should also consider it would be rightfully his call to make. He is the king and the commanding officer. He is entitled to and burdened with the decision, who lives and who dies to achieve the goal - getting back home. Without the mutiny the majority of the crew had a pretty good chance.
@@fluffythecat8280THANK YOU. Fuck I'm so tired of people not understanding that this story isn't supposed to be cute and that being a pacifist and merciful were considered flaws and faults back then.
@@felixsonofscoutywhich is true because look what happened after they knocked him out they all did something stupid and got smited.
22:02
Mattables: absolutely fucking not
Me: absolutely fucking would
i found my people
Bards (aka monster lovers)@@Mattables
Matt: “Stop bringing me down with you.”
The entire community: •~no~•
I heard that no lol
I mean… how can we possibly lift him up? It’s based on The Odyssey 😂… Maybe he’ll watch some livestream animations for The Wisdom Saga and one of Aeolus’ Winions will make him smile 😂💜
@@icemagiciangh Wait till he learns about Argos...
For the Wisdom saga i recommend:
Legendary - Duvetbox
Little wolf- Duvetbox
We'll be fine - gigi
Love in paradise- Ximena Natzel
God Games - Neal Illustrator
@@thepumpky2710 THIS IS PERFECT ^^^
💯 Also favorite list!
I personally prefer AnniFlamma God Games but can’t go wrong with Neal. Other than that perfect recommendation.
@@kyleanderson1183 agreed
PERFECT 💕
gigi’s scylla for a first-time reaction is ROUGH…. i can’t wait :)))
edit: the trauma in his expression is so tangible. goodness gravy dudes.
My favorite thing about Gigi's Scylla is just how much joy Scylla takes in it, she's basically dancing in the water taunting the men being sacrificed. Also, there wasn't a portrayal of betrayal, there were portrayals. The first was the reveal about the wind bag. The second was him betraying his crew to sacrifice them to Scylla. The third was the mutiny.
There's still some of Tiresias' prophecy to pass.
AND NOW, FOR THE FINAL TIME, Eurylocus being hangry kills people
Wisdom Saga Animatics:
Legendary - Duvetbox
Little Wolf - Duvetbox
We´ll Be Fine - Gigi
Love in Paradise - Ximena Natzel
God Games - Neal Illustrator
I love Neals God Games soooooo much
Anniflamma god games is better
@@The_Hunted you really do not have to hate on her in every comment that recommends her god games you know
I am so so desperate for someone to react to Rochi’s ‘Legendary’ - as far as I can tell no one has reacted to it and it is by far one of my favourite Epic animatics ever…it just captures something really unique about Telemachus that I don’t think others do
About the "double-layer" voice. If I remember right then Jay actually has one voice per head for Scylla, all singing exclusively one note (which sounds hella weird/robotic if it's only one of them), which is how you get that multi-voice effect that's so effective for Scylla
"Eurylochus, light up six torches" Odysseus, after hearing his second in command's confession of betrayal, has him light up and pass out the 6 torches that would mark them as sacrifices to distract the 6 heads of Scylla. He planned for Eurylochus to die in that cave.
Also, fun fact, Helios threatened to hide the sun in the underworld if Zeus didn't enact retribution for the cows
Personal animator suggestions for the Wisdom Saga:
Legendary: Duvet Box
Little Wolf: Duvet Box
We'll Be Fine: Gigi
Love In Paradise: Ximena Natzel
God Games: Anniflamma
Great reactions and happy watching!
I think is important to say, you seem to think in the video that Ody's plan to Syclla was flee as fast as he could, and that is true, but he went with the plan of sacrifice 6 men, he knew Scylla have 6 heads and he ask to light up 6 torches. The crew didn't get piss of because 6 people died on a plan gone wrong, but because his plan was to let them die.
There is no way he could escape Syclla. There were 3 choices here:
1- Sail into the storm and get killed
2- Sail into Syclla's place and sacrifice 6 men(anything else would once more mean death since you can't kill her, and she would eat all of them before they got out)
3- Or just never return home
@@kunilsen2519"no other way" yeah, like no way he would escape poseidon, literal god, oh wait, he did, no way he'd rescue his men from circe, oh, divine intervention and he did. That's what Eurylochus talked about. Ody always had a plan, always at least tried do the impossible to save his crew. Now he stopped and ruthlessly sacrificed them
@@danylonazarov But it all failed.
He did not escape Poseidon, Poseidan killed all his men.
Circe he found common ground with and came to an agreement, so sure.
Scylla, how the hell is he supposed to kill her? She has 6 heads, and she is more or less untouchable to them because she has ultimate reach while they cannot touch her What are they gonna do? Swim at her?
Eurylochus himself admitted that he would have made the same choice as Ody, it's just that Eurylochus likes to point fingers and blame Ody to feel better about himself.
Ody has gotten nothing but pushback for being creative and clever with his solutions. Both from Gods, his crew, and Eurylochus. Can't really blame a man for finally following the rules people and gods force upon him.
As an author, Jorge's writing is an absolute masterpiece. Especially in the newest saga (no spoilers, promise), the build up, and the raw emotion, and the payoff as so many elements and themes come together is the kind of moment I dream of writing!
You’ve got to watch Neal the illustrators animatic for thunder bringer it is insane. Every crew member looks distinct and sure has so much personality.
The difference between Odysseus and Eurylochus is that when Eury opened the bag he had no intent of harming anyone. Many of the crew believed that Odysseus was hiding treasure for himself in the bag, so Eurylochus thought he was doing something for the crew's benefit.
Odysseus knew exactly what he was doing when he handed out those torches. He purposefully gave up lives of his men, betraying his role as a captain and protector of his crew.
Eurylochus was rhich af, the treasure wouldn't have been needed. That was just greed
How Eury thought he was benefiting the crew? Ody is a king, and then a captain, he gets to decide if and how actual treasure is divided once they're home. If the crew focused on sailing they'd have seen how close home they were, but they focused on the silly bag instead. They were greedy.
@@Musiyca
The winds constantly told the crew its treasure in bag.
Yes, they should have listened to their captain, but do you have guts to say a God is wrong?
Also, if they didn't open the bag, Poseidon would have flooded Ithaca the moment they landed.
@@terra4822 which is irrelvant. not only is he king. but HE earned whatever was in the bag he brought back. the best defense they have is that they were stealing from their rightful king. actively betraying him.
especially as they go against his direct order. which. btw is treason...
Scylla is a famous Greek sea monster with a tragic tale of betrayal that involves Circe, where she use to be one of the most beautiful nymph but now she stays at a straight. Where she needs six sacrifice to pass or try the impossible task of going through her siblings charybdis who sinks fleets(another famous sea monster and one of my favorite).
Charybdis is also Poesidon's daughter who was cursed(Sorry if im wrong lol it's been a while)
Edit: Thats also the reason Poesidon doesn't go near her, in the og Oydessey(he doesn't want to disturb her)
FINALLY (no offense Mattables but I’ve been on the edge of my seat since you’re reaction to the Underworld lol)
Edit: This man’s pure SHOCK at Scylla just murdering men is absolutely hilarious to me
Also Matt if you see this, Team Eurelocus or Team Odysseus? Personally I’m on Ody’s side in mutant/thunderbringer.
Your* and same. I have been waiting for this video👏👏👏
@@Greekmythlover543-b2d thanks for the correction lol my Danm Autocorrect can correct my spelling but not my grammar
Lmao, I can relate to that
Literally I've been WAITING for this video to drop
@@Greekmythlover543-b2dhilarious that you corrected "your" but not "Eurylochus"
So I just had a thought. If they had kept the siren corpses as torch holders they would have made it home. Clearly Ody knew how many heads Scylla had by telling Eury to get 6 torches. Siren torch holders fix everything
This is horrible. I freaking love it.
Aldo isn't Scylla part siren herself? Pretty sure she wouldn't like that.
@ look Scylla looks more monstrous in Gigi’s art so I doubt it cares what kind of food it eats
@@Venomtankmod To add to this, in the original myth, the six heads of Scylla were a belt of dogs. I think she also had the head and body of a beautiful woman in the middle and crab legs? Or something to that effect. The love Circe mentioned before was a different ocean God than Poseidon and THAT God was in love with Scylla (either a woman or water nymph, that part gets dicey), so Circe cursed her and she want to hide in that lair next to Charybdis. She sent out her six heads to eat fish, monsters, and sailors that got too close. So, no she wasn’t particularly picky about what she ate, but I doubt she’d consider the sirens as her being a cannibal. After hearing the song, I was curious about Scylla and did some reading to find out what she looked like and what her story was 😅 so I could picture her.
Fun fact! Eurylochus addresses your point about the cows and divine pubishment in the Odyssey. Not going to bring out the quote, but he's basicially like "Starving to death is one of the worst ways to die. I know killing these cows could result in our deaths, but I would rather die at the hands of a god, I would rather drown at sea, than die slowly of hunger. And, if Helios spares us, we will make a shrine to the god upon our arrival home."
We'll be fine - gigi
God Games - Neal Illustrator or AnniFlamma (heck watch them both they are worth watching both)
I have no preference on the other songs.
Some of the songs for vengeance saga have animatics also but have not found a preference for those yet
I am glad you are enjoying Epic the Therapy bill
I feel like the difference between Eurylochus’ opening of the bag and Odysseus’ sacrificing the men to Scylla is that Eurylochus didn’t know the consequences of his actions. Sure, he was warned not to open the bag since it held the storm inside, but how was he supposed to know that Poseidon would suddenly show up and kill off the majority of the crew?
On top of this, Poseidon is ODYSSEUS’ fault. HE was the one who gave his name away to the cyclops, who then went crying to his father Poseidon. But, in Ody’s defence, he also didn’t know that him giving his name away would have consequences. Ody *did* know about Scylla’s cost, though.
The thing I feel we could use to point fingers at Eurylochus for is how he was totally ready to just give up on the men on Circe’s island. Sure, he probably didn’t know how he could possibly turn pigs into men again in the face of this powerful sorceress, but that fact makes him hypocritical to turn against Odysseus who *also* didn’t see any choice but to go through Scylla’s lair.
Sorry if this was a lot to read, I just have *lots* of thoughts on this 😅💕💗
(AND sorry if this comment showed up twice, I had to fix some grammar mistakes)
Yes and no. I think you made a good point about Odysseus not knowing the consequences of letting the cyclops live and viving his name. All Athen told him was "No!" Which doesnt solve anything.
But Eurylochus was told what would happen. "Don't open this bag, it was the winds of the storm." I think you can logistally understand "okay big storm. Thats a no no." And I think that should outweigh the promise of treasure. And on the island, Odysseus told him "This is the home of the sun god. Kill his cattle, who knows what he'll send." And at this point, they've seen the wrath of the god's first hand. Yet, he still choose to be greedy again in a way.
In the book (which I know is different from Epic) Eurylochus basically says "If we kill Helios' cattle and make it home, we will build him a temple. Or he will strike us down here. But it is better to die at the hands of a god than slowly starve."
Odysseus never knew what consequences the Cyclops would have because he was just told "no." But Eurylochus was given reason. He was given the truth and knew what would happen. Yet he still chose to act on it in order to make himself better (treasure and no slow death)
@@Lemon-dt4is Thank you!
Ody so far has been making choices with very little information, and he has been trying his best to keep everyone alive, it simply has not worked out. The stupidest thing he did was doxxing himself. Everything else was choices he was forced to make with little to no info while trying to learn from the past.
(His journey from being merciless and killing a bunch of unaware soldiers as well as a baby --> being kinder and following his friend's wishes for him --> someone who experiences the consequences of mercy --> into someone that has been formed by the gods to become a 'monster')
Eurylochus on the other hand got all the info that was needed and still chose his greed. Constantly arguing with his captain(planting seeds of doubt within the crew), going against direct orders in the vain hope of treasures. Starting a mutiny and backstabbing Ody after he sacrificed 6 men I can understand (from Ody's perspective, I think it was the lesser of two or even three evils, but it was still cruel).
Now with Eurylochus in charge, having taken down their captain and king, he stupidly kills the immortal cows and then immediately turns back to Ody when things go wrong(exactly as Ody warned them).
I personally feel people hold Ody accountable for pretty much everything even if it was out of his hands while pretty much excusing Eurylochus for all his stupid decisions. I don't get it lol
@@Lemon-dt4is You make a good point! 🤗
@@kunilsen2519 I understand your feelings on that! I feel like people try to put all the blame on either Eury or Ody, so I tried to dish it out evenly in my comment. If it didn’t seem that way, I apologize! ❤️
@@neaccanonn No need to apologize! I enjoyed reading your comment and thought it was pretty open and fair even if some parts I would personally not fully agree on
(The commnt I originally replied to touched on it well)
:)
Suffering feels like messing with a bot on tinder, like they get basic info wrong, they try to lure you in (poorly), and when you start making weird requests they break, they they just start repeating the same line over and over because the bot has forgotten what they are supposed to be doing.
No I don't speak from experience, why do you ask?
Wisdom Saga recommendations:
Duvetbox for Legendary
Duvetbox for Little Wolf
Gigi for We’ll Be Fine
Either Duvetbox or Ximena Natzel for Love In Paradise
Nealillustrator for God Games
Then the stream for the Vengeance Saga
1st song 'Legendary', Animatic by: Duvetbox
2nd song 'Little Wolf', Animatic by: Duvetbox
3rd song 'We'll Be Fine', Animatic by: gigi
4th song 'Love In Paradise', Animatic by: Ximena Natzel
5th song 'God Games', Animatic by: Neal Illustrator
❤❤❤❤❤
Troy Saga, Zeus: *The blood in your hands is something you won't lose... All you can choose is whose*
Thunder Saga, Zeus: *Someone's gotta die today and you have got the final say... You? Or your crew?*
In Scylla, when she talks about betrayal she is not talking about Eurylochus but rather Odysseus who had planned to sacrifice six men for a safe passage. Thats why she also says they are the same and at the end Odysseus admits it by singing with her
I never see anyone mention it, but I find the change from "I need to get home" to "we can get home" SO good
Act 2 time!! Different Beast, and Syclla are my favorite.
And ofc Thunder Bringer, Luke Holt (Zeus' VA) has a voice that makes us all melt.
so Scylla demands a sacrifice of six men (one for each head) if you want to get out of there alive. The six torches let her know who will be her tribute... Which is why when Eury told him he was the one who opened the wind bag he made sure Eury would be one of the ones holding a torch. But due to luck he drops his torch and a different crew member picked it up.
(also side note the choice was between passing by Scylla, who always takes six men no mater what but will spare the ship, or sail by charybdis, who could possibly be outmaneuvered but if he failed the entire ship would be eaten.)
So fun fact, the depictions of Scylla aren’t full on artistic interpretation. Scylla has 6 heads, ody asked for 6 torches to be lit, one for each head.
You could also think that ody was subtly trying to kill eurylochus by asking him to light the torches.
29:15 the difference is that he didnt know opening the bag would doom them. Like he thought ody was lying.
Ody knew scylla has a cost. 6 lives.
Just not believing someone when they tell you taking a course of action will fuck you over doesn't make you not responsible for fucking people over though. It just makes you an idiot for not listening. Eurylochus was explicitly told what the bag held and had the choice to not open it, Odysseus was basically told 'you have no other option' and thus went with the only thing on the table.
Eurylochus is far more responsible for the deaths of the crew than Odysseus, particularly considering they wouldn't have even needed to deal with Scylla if he hadn't opened the bag.
@@thrall898 Sure that's true, but you have to remember ody doxxed himself, Poseidon was coming after them anyways and all those people would still have died. And probably more since they would have been at Ithaca
@@malcolmartsryactually not true. The bag of wind is a test for ody. If he managed to keep it close, he will managed to get home safely and poseidon won’t be able to do anything to him. Why do I say this? Because the gods won’t allow poseidon to do anything to ithaca, the same reason why poseidon didn’t just drowned troy
@@merlinrecon7528 that's incorrect, Poseidon can do exactly wtf he wants as long as it it isn't drastic, in Get in The Water, Poseidon quite literally claims that, "I will raise the tides so high... All of Ithaca would die" and "I'll take your son and gauge his eyes! That is unless you choose to die!" Which fully implies he has all the power in the world he could. And even if you assume that Zeus wouldn't let him drown so many of his people for sacrifices, Poseidon still has all the right to kill Odysseus, his men and possibly Penelope and Telemachus with the excuse of "Odysseus disrespected both him and Polyphemus for blinding him, not kill him"
So no.
@@RacketEPIC why do you think he ONLY threatened ody? And not just do it? Why not just simply kidnapped penelope or telemachus and parade them in front of ody? And why do you think after 600 strike, poseidon wouldn’t just go to ithaca and gouge telemachus’s eyes??? BECAUSE he can’t actually do that. It’s all mental manipulation to basically make ody despair (the same reason why zeus have ody kill the infant even tho zeus could kill the infant easily)
Poseidon is NOT a god of island, he can’t just do everything he wants to a whole ass island just because he wanted to. Ithaca worship the olympians, has the patronage of athena, under the protection of zeus because of the alliance ody made when helen’s courting happened so NO poseidon can’t do anything to ithaca the same way he can’t do anything to troy DIRECTLY.
Fun thing about Scylla is that the references Jorge gave out to any animatic artists is that he wanted people to leave the theaters - or in this case the animatics - traumatized, basically 😂 So yes, Scylla was meant to be the ultimate scary and ultimate creepy.
Scylla's lair or passage is also a place where you kinda can't pass without people dying and it was adapted here so that the cost was "manageable" because, technically, Scylla could have killed the whole crew. Hence the torches, making her focus her hunting instead of going willy nilly. Don't know how Odysseus knew about Scylla in EPIC -we can persume that it's his lessons with Athena or the prophet - but in the Odyssey, Circe was considerably more helpful and an ally than just getting him to the Underworld.
He also explained some about how he imagined the siren's song works: basically, their song, once it snares someone, allows them a peep into their mind so they can better lure them into crashing the ship against the rocks of the islands they populate. Because Odysseus and his crew had beeswax in their ears, they only got partial information and had to work based on that, hence the mistakes they made when impersonating Penelophe.
Another thing about the sirens: these are not Ancient Greece accurate sirens, these are more mermaids, as sirens are basically bird-women - there are even myths that connect them to the nymphs who used to be companions of Persephone before she was taken by Hades and were then either punished or enhanced by Demeter, Persephone's mother, to better search for her - however Homer never really described them in the Odyssey so they could be either for all we know.
All that aside, in the Odyssey it really is one of the most brilliant moves of Greek wits when Odysseus and his crew twarted the sirens.
Helios, the sun god, was known for his secret island where he kept his sacred cows. When Odysseus' crew killed some to feed themselves - which in the Odyssey happened not through mutiny but rather a trickery by Zeus that had them stuck on the island for ten days so their supplies from Circe would be used up and they'd go hungry again; they even waited for Odysseus to be asleep again before making their stupid decisions - Helios got so angry that he demanded from Zeus himself to punish them and threatened that he'd take the sun to shine in the Underworld instead of the overworld/human world if they weren't punished. Hence why Zeus was the one Odysseus and co faced in Thunderbringer and not the sun god.
Another fun thing is the role Eurylicas has in EPIC vs his role in the Odyssey. In EPIC, he's Odysseus' close friend, SIC and loyal comrade who tried his best but always messed up somehow when it counted the most until he kinda reached his limit in suffering. In the Odyssey, he was actually a secretly envious rival and had tried multiple times to undermine Odysseus, which is also partially how they ended up killing Helios' cows. I love how much the role was changed yet there's still subtle underlines of his original role in his actions.
It also bears mentioning that Luck Runs Out and Mutiny really bring out how undecided Eurylicas himself is in EPIC on whether or not Odysseus should rely on his wit to save/lead the crew. In Luck Runs Out, he warned him against relying on wit and basically reaffirmed the opinion on Circe's island in Puppeteer, but in Mutiny he was angry that Odysseus HADN'T used his wit to miraculously save them all from Scylla. (Which may very well be impossible for even the gods themselves considering Poseidon avoids going into her or her counterpart's waters)
Ultimately, besides the mess with the Cyclops - which technically ended up involving Poseidon, though in the Odyssey he was already kinda pissy because of the "disrespect" with the Troyan horse - everything else really is the crew's fault because they angered more gods/mythical creatures than Odysseus himself. EPIC doesn't touch upon all the messes they went through but you can bet that Odysseus was a babysitter no one listened to 😅
Good luck with the next two sagas, they're packed with emotion and tension but also a lot of action so they're very fun to experience!
23:49 ACTUALLY her voice is made from the same recording, but layered over a few times and manually edited to make different tones into a harmony- doing this method by itself sounds odd but really fits Scylla as she’s a monster of course she would sound inhuman!
The thing is, i think you are right that he is a sweet, good and clever leader who wants to see his boys get home. It literally is who he is, and that is why its 'no longer him' that gets home. The gods break him
"I'd try to gaslight him into making it seem like that was the only way out of there." Hah. Cute. You actually think there was another way.🤣
My head canon about them not fishing is that Poseidon was being petty and making fish not go near the boat
Of course you were still into the sirens after the reveal. I've accepted that you are pretty much down for any feminine looking monster drawn xD
Anyways, here are my animatic recommendations for the Wisdom Saga. The stream itself is honestly really good to watch tbh, if that's an option.
- Legendary and Little Wolf by Duvetbox (their design choices are honestly pretty peak, and the action in both songs is pretty smooth. There's a lot of other cool little wolf animatics though you should check out nonetheless)
- We'll be fine by Gigi (self explanatory. We love Gigi here ❤)
- Love in Paradise (Ximena or Britt. Poww. They have some pretty good ones, but Britt is a bit more menacing with the design choices in my opinion)
- God Games (Top two animatics would be either Neal Illustrator or AnniFlamma. They both pulled out ALL the stops with the animatics, and is bound to get you slack jawed at the end.)
Yeah, there's a big difference between making a mistake that costs people their lives, and being the Captain with people under your command you're supposed to protect, and a monster comes along, and the Captain goes "Yeah, eat this guy, this guy, this guy, that one, that, and that one, and let us pass.". Which is what Ody did. A difference between a costly mistake and serving up your crew on a silver platter to be eaten.
(I finished the video after writing this, I appreciate you calling me out like that. Like Zeus brings the thunder, I bring the misery) My normal job of providing source material trauma is a bit difficult here as it deviates significantly from the original.... uuummm I guess in the original Scylla was next to Charybdis and they had to choose which painful death to go through and chose the "6 people die" option instead of the "everyone dies" option.... and in mutiny they were trapped on the island for several days, just watching the cows roam around as a storm kept them from leaving before, on the brink of death by starvation, they finally killed a cow
RECOMMENDATION MATT ^^
legendary: Rochi
Little wolf: PurpleSky DL
We'll be fine: gigi
Love in paradise: duvetbox
God games: neal illustrator ( again ^^ )
Personally I’d say Anneflamme for God games
2:20 I love how you got it immediately
My theory is that thought Posiden is not directly influencing them at this moment, because of him, the sea creatures (such as fish) are staying away from Odysseus. Which is why they can't just fish. Plus, they still have around 50 men to feed.
My one defense for eurylicus is that while he opened the windbag and killed more people, he didn’t INTEND to kill them, whereas Odysseus KNEW 6 people would die and indiscriminately decided that was more acceptable.
For the Wisdom Saga animatics, here are my suggestions! They're listed in chronological order, & I also included the links for any video/s that I mentioned below each song:
Song 1 - "Legendary" ~ the best animatic for this song IMO is 100% the one made by Duvetbox, hands down 🥰
"Legendary" by Duvetbox link:
ua-cam.com/video/7-PXMTzbEys/v-deo.htmlsi=WOv1wDFggF6NmJkX
Song 2 - "Little Wolf" ~ if you're willing/up for it, I personally am still a REALLY huge fan of the animation & art that Jorge had commissioned for the full length of "Little Wolf" for the Wisdom Saga release live stream, & that streams footage is actually still up on his channel, so I'd LOVE if you used the "Little Wolf" livestream visuals for your reaction (if its not too much of a hassle 😅) but its also nbd if you'd rather not deal w/ that, & if thats the case then my runner up animatic suggestion for this song is actually yet another one made by the talented Duvetbox 🥰
"Little Wolf" by Duvetbox link:
ua-cam.com/video/BPiJF7rceiA/v-deo.htmlsi=2NjlmGPlZ0zQO3-g
There's a bit of explanation that goes w/ the Livestream footage links, plus this won't be the only song I mention it for, so I'm gonna put those links & said explanations/info down at the very end of my comment instead so it doesn't take up too much space up here 😅☠️
Song 3 - "We'll Be Fine" ~ for this song I recommend the animatic made by Gigi 💕
"We'll Be Fine" by Gigi link:
ua-cam.com/video/DR26QjyF__g/v-deo.htmlsi=YnjWG6CHpsyT7ThS
Song 4 - "Love in Paradise" ~ for this song I once again HIGHLY recommend reacting to the Wisdom Saga Livestream footage for this song if you're up to it (this song has multiple different INCREDIBLE visuals/animations from a handful of artists occurring back to back throughout pretty much the entire song, w/ the only exception being literally like mayyyybe 2 or 4 lines TOTAL that lacked any commissioned art), but if not then I personally prefer the animatic made by Duvetbox, & the one by Ximena Natzel is a very close second favorite of mine as well (even tho the Duvetbox one is genuinely my #1 favorite for this song, I figured I should still include an alternative suggestion too, since I assume you probably wanna at least TRY to have some artist/creator variety for your reaction video, rather than just react to Duvetbox for over half the songs in the saga lol 🤣)
"Love in Paradise" by Duvetbox link:
ua-cam.com/video/lpVWEq_wIrs/v-deo.htmlsi=a2IeraagQaP0an8k
"Love in Paradise" by Ximena Natzel link:
ua-cam.com/video/Uq3gSWvjI7Y/v-deo.htmlsi=U4akAn7EIEFAWmeH
Song 5 - "God Games" ~ ok, ik I've already brought it up twice, but if for some reason you were to choose just one of the songs to react to the Wisdom Saga Livestream footage of, THIS is the one I'd want you to do the most of any of them. I can't really explain much about exactly WHY I feel that way - beyond just emphasizing that the Livestream visuals for "God Games" were SO cool, SO creative, & were done SO INCREDIBLY WELL - w/out possibly getting spoilery. However, once again I totally understand if you don't wanna deal w/ whatever hassle might come w/ this livestream reaction route (if there is any, that is; idek for sure if there'd be any more &/or less difficulty than reacting to a regular animatic - I'm not a reactor or content creator myself, so I am by NO means ANY kind of expert on how all that behind the scenes stuff works 😅), so for my stand alone animatic suggestion for this song, my ABSOLUTE favorite W/OUT QUESTION is the one by Neal Illustrator 😍
"God Games" by Neal Illustrator link:
ua-cam.com/video/z_5Hokpu0vg/v-deo.htmlsi=1vIV-23ut1zUcOq4
**Livestream Stuff**
In case you didn't already know, the Wisdom Saga Livestream footage is actually split into 2 parts/videos (I'll explain why in a moment 😅🤣☠️)
Wisdom Saga Livestream (Part 1) link -
ua-cam.com/users/liveXwx0X4O91Kk?si=1yxRUjvlk3l4AnQK
Wisdom Saga Livestream (Part 2) link -
ua-cam.com/users/liveC3ctXVWMBXc?si=hUQ2Aw-J4ipGiym4
So the Wisdom Saga itself starts in Part 1 @ the timestamp 1:32:05 w/ song #1 "Legendary", then #2 "Little Wolf" starts at 1:35:20, & #3 "We'll Be Fine" begins at 1:38:35, but then #4 "Love in Paradise" is where it gets a bit tricky 😅🤣
So that song still starts off in Part 1 as well - @ the timestamp 1:40:41 - but then only a little bit later, while still right in the middle of that same song - around 1:43:05-1:43:10-ish - is when the original livestream had gotten abruptly cut off by yt (& for a freakin COPYRIGHT violation of all things no less 🤯 - like seriously tho, what violation?!?! Jorge WROTE/CREATED/OWNS THE DANG MUSIC THAT HE WAS STREAMING, WYM?!?! Make it make sense 😭😅🤣☠️), so it only took about 15-30secs of the live chat absolutely LOSING it for Jorge to realize what happened (the live chat VERY quickly descended into most of us in all caps yelling "CAPTAIN?!?! CAPTAIN!!!" while a handful of others just popped off w/ insanely quick wit & started using all sorts of Epic quotes/memes to make some pretty hilarious &/or messed up jokes in chat as well 🤣☠️)
So he ended that Livestream & then started a whole new one (aka Part 2) in which he 1st set the player back to an earlier spot in song #4 "Love in Paradise" (as to ensure nobody missed anything) before getting the live itself up & running & then hitting play again (song #4 starts playing again in Part 2 around the 1min timestamp or so) & then once that song is finished, song #5 "God Games" begins at the timestamp 4:54 & ends around 10:24 - w/the last
To quote Hermes from a different musical. "It's a sad song. It's. A. Tragedy."
But we’re gonna sing it again (and if you’re me, again and again and again and again)
Remember when the prophet said "portayals of betrayal?" notice how he said "portayals" and not "portayal" because there is no "one" betrayal. Eury opening the bag, ody sacrificing the 6 men to Scylla, Mutiny, etc.
Everyone was betrayed and made betrayal in some kind of way. From pleasing the will of Zeus with the baby, to offending him with the cow, to Aeolus, Circe, Polyphemus, etc.
Conflicting desires will always end with one party hurt, then feeling forced to hurt in retaliation. I love the dualism
You got two types of people:
Mattables when he sees Scylla: What the fuck is that.
Casper: Would.
Zeus goes down to deal with them for two reasons 1) He just loves fucking with mortals, in every sense of the world. 2) Helios did threaten to turn off the Sun if he didn't go and punish Odysseus, as Helios himself could not go to Earth to do it. However being Zeus, I think reason 2 was very much just a convenient excuse for reason 1.
Great video as always ^_^ Always love seeing people's reactions to Scylla and Zeus
My personal recommendation for the Wisdom Saga is:
Legendary - Duvetbox
Little wolf - Duvetbox
We'll be fine - Gigi
Love in Paradise - Duvetbox
God Games - Neal illustrator
Love all of these animatics, especially Neal illustrator's God Games, can't say why for spoilers but its so good ^_^
33:14
They cut off the sirens tails and let them drown. Where do you think the fish tails went? It is implied the crew ate them.
OK SO… Wisdom Saga suggestions:
1. legendary - duvetbox
2. little wolf - the traveling pen (small creator- EXTREMELY talented)
3. we’ll be fine - gigi
4. love in paradise- ximena natzel
5. god games - neal illustrator
Anniflamma god games is way better
@ ok 👍 both are very talented!
@@The_Hunted Not really. Both are about the same level, but Neal's character designs are stronger, imo
@@Orion_44 i dont like neals character designs
@@The_Hunted And that's a personal opinion. One that isn't very common. Go back to your cave, troll!
Fun fact; Scylla has ties to another major character in the EPIC musical, that being Circe. In some myths, Circe was in love with the Sea God Glaucus (hence Circe's line 'I have been in love once before' in There Are Other Ways), but the guy only had eyes for Scylla. To try and get a chance with him, Circe poisoned the water Scylla was bathing in, turning her into the monster she is in the Odyssey.
That's why, during "Suffering," when the siren sings "this is your only way home, the lair of Scylla," it's Circe's string melody played on piano!
Idk if you will ever see this comment but I wanted to let you know that this is probably my favorite reaction to this saga that I have ever seen (and I have seen A LOT!!)
*The fact that you don't judge or demonize Odysseus until the very end* (well except the one moment where he really DID go overboard with his cruelty against the sirens, but in that moment is actually fair yk) *means so much to me, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for that.* You wouldn't believe how many people do. It's pretty insane.
I honestly think on specifically the "It's no longer you" Tiresias (the seer) can't be taken too literally. Because while Odysseus does change in some ways, especially because he gains and goes through so much experience, he doesn't actually change his true *core* self. Ever since becoming the "Monster," he has embraced a ruthless mentality and he needs to learn for himself that it's not the right way to go. However, it's important to recognize that this "Monster" is not the true Odysseus, but rather a situational/trauma response. He acts this way because he thinks it's necessary to reach his goal, not because he truly wants to or condones it. It's crucial to consider the bigger picture of what someone has gone through in order to understand their actions. People should not be judged solely based on their darkest moment.
And I assume that they did eat the siren tails, but we don't actually know how much time passes between Different Beast and Mutiny so they may not have lasted that long.
In regards to Scylla, others already mentioned that the six torches marked the deliberate sacrifices (Scylla's "cost"). Odysseus had to decide between sacrificing 6 of his men, matching the number of heads on Scylla, or risk everyone dying in a battle with her. It was a choice between two evils, with no clear right or wrong path. Ultimately, he chose to sacrifice 6 in order to save the rest, a ruthless but potentially life-saving decision considering the potential casualties in a fight against Scylla (considering even Poseidon is scared to cross her, that should mean something.)
He gave the (unintentional) choice whom to sacrifice to Eurylochus, and then turned away because he very likely didn't want to see or know. Allowing him to unknowingly select sacrifices might have been the punishment for the wind bag, but there is no concrete evidence that Eurylochus was supposed to die himself as some people seem to insist. Personally, I think allowing Eurylochus to pick the sacrifices is fair. If there's already a need to sacrifice men, let the one who is actually to blame for their situation do it. THANK YOU by the way for being pissed at Eurylochus who IS to blame for so many casualties, and never actually takes accountability for it despite the apology.
In Mutiny ... Honestly as much as I understand why he's mad from a "he's just human" perspective, you're so right that Eurylochus is the last person to be complaining about now. The song is heart-wrenching because it shows that Odysseus still cares about his crew despite everything, and is determined to help them all return home. During his desperate attempts to get them off the island he completely abandons trying to sound or act ruthless as well. He made that sacrifice of six to get the others through and then this ... Well, they doomed themselves, so nothing that can really be done.
And then the MOMENT they run into trouble Eurylochus immediately goes back to calling Odysseus "captain", despite leading a mutiny a few hours (?) ago. It seems he didn't want to carry all the power and blame himself after all. I don't mean to be too critical of Eurylochus, as he's a compelling character and his actions are understandable from a human perspective, but it's important to acknowledge that he was the original traitor and his hypocrisy is clear. This part of the story just beautifully demonstrates how subordinates frequently blame their superiors for their tough and often ruthless decisions, but when faced with the same responsibility, they crumple immediately.
Now THUNDER BRINGER is imo one of the best written songs in the musical. The lyricism in it is simply top notch, even though Zeus is technically very off when blaming the crime Odysseus' men committed on pride.
"Pride is a damsel in distress, hiding away where only I can undress her" ... He claims exclusive ownership of pride (which I suppose holds true if he's the one making the rules). "Try as she can not to confess, in the end they're all the same once I apply all the pressure." ... This is maybe not true in the way he intended it, as in a sense of "everyone becomes evil or flawed when stripped of pride and humbled." But then again, Odysseus did just indirectly kills the rest of his crew, so perhaps it's too soon for me to say that lol. Not that I blame him considering they just mutinied, stabbed him in the back, and then tried to kill some immortal cows against his explicit order/advice...
Either way, my most genuine condolences to Odysseus for having to live with that burden... He really does embody sheer misfortune, never having signed up for any of this, yet here he is... alone now.
ANYWAY LONG RANT OVER... Yes we all did enjoy the Vengeance saga very much it was incredible... You'll get to join us soon. Hey, maybe you'll get to the Ithaca saga on release day at least (that's the final saga, it doesn't have a release date yet but probably sometime at the very end of the year. Jorge likes to release these on holidays, so maybe Christmas or New Years?)
For the next saga (Wisdom Saga) I would highly recommend
Legendary by Duvetbox
Little Wolf by Krieo (I KNOW PEOPLE LOVE DUVETBOX' LITTLE WOLF BUT THIS ONE IS JUST SO MUCH BETTER AT THE EMOTIONS IMO 🥺)
We'll be fine by gigi
Love in Paradise by mikuchi or Gaia Ruggenini (both HIGHLY underrated)
God Games by Anniflamma or Neal Illustrator (honestly I prefer Anni's for the ending, but Neal does nail the middle section of this song ... If at all possible somehow I would recommend watching both, even if one in your own time)
The thing in my opinion about Eurylochus is that compared to his things Odysseus sacrificed those men consciously. He didn’t know what would happen with the bag how could he know the Winons couldn’t be trusted and after polities died many others did because ody froze which would be a chance of lost trust. He tries to tell ody immediately but is brushed off and immediately in his perception “loses” more men to Circe. He couldn’t predict Hermes showing up and had that not been the case ody would have infact died. Either way knowing the results and hindsight he would’ve taken back everything but Odysseus who has been acting odd ever since the underworld the one who is supposed to protect them and the one who never left a man behind if he could just sent him to unknowingly pick the deaths of six men he spent the last 13 years with and with hindsight would not have done anything differently. The man you trusted for years someone brotherly to you and if you had kept that torch you wouldn’t be speaking right now. “If you want all the power you must carry all the blame” I don’t think eurylochus wanted that power I think he’s hurt that Odysseus given that power in his perception just LET six friends die for which he doesn’t fully even know the context of because he didn’t speak with the siren. Eurylochus’s actions that have haunted him weren’t conscious but Odysseus’s actions that led to death were he just resigned to that fate. That’s the crux of his motivation.
Sorry for yapping im not like upset at all I'm just very passionate about his character and kinda annoyed at how lots of ppl don't even really try to understand him
@@Hardleyheckling Oh, please never apologize for yapping about Epic! I actually love your comment every much. If I came across as villainizing Eurylochus or anything of the sort that wasn't my intention. I actually really love his character and what he does for the story, just I think that the narrative itself doesn't emphasize the share of the blame that he carries for the situation enough.
While I don't think there was any excuse to open the wind bag after 9 days especially (after 1 day maybe, but like Odysseus went up there in a storm and came back and the storm was gone and then continued to be gone for as long as the bag was closed, as he said, for THAT long, I think that in and of itself is a pretty good reason to think he's telling the truth). But then I also think if Odysseus had approached Eurylochus and asked him openly to keep an eye on the bag while he slept, he likely wouldn't have opened it. Same with Scylla-I get why he didn't tell the crew about it since that may have caused a panic but he might have told Eurylochus as his second.
Basically what I'm trying to say is the issues between them are 100% rooted in mutual distrust. Eurylochus didn't trust him first, confronted him in front of the crew, leading to Odysseus not trusting him when he really should have with the bag, leading to more distrust. Odysseus shut him down when he wanted to confess the bag thing, pushing him further away, and Eurylochus didn't ask about his motivation or thought process behind making the sacrifice to Scylla, he just immediately resorted to a mutiny. It's basically like, mutual lack of attempts to understand each other and/or maintaining their closeness.
Btw I didn't necessarily mean Eurylochus wanted the power for powers sake, I meant that he must have thought he could lead the crew better than Odysseus since he mutinied, even if it was not out of hunger for power. And then he failed immediately.
I fully understand why you're yapping btw I dislike people who don't try to understand characters and just sh*t on them for shallow reasons as well. If I came across that way I apologize 😭 Maybe I'm just jaded bc I've seen too many people villainizing Odysseus for exactly such shallow reasons, but I can imagine the same being done to Eurylochus or anyone else. Honestly NO ONE in this musical is truly evil or malicious except some of the gods and/or monsters such as Poseidon or the sirens. Not all of them either, which just means the character work is all the more incredible.
Here's the thing with Scylla (and to an extent Mutiny). If you don't fight Scylla, she will always kill six men, regardless of different things
The big difference the Torches made was ensuring that Odysseus would survive, which is why he doesn't act in the latter half of the song, because he knows the six dead will not include him.
And in regards to the moment Eury starts calling Odysseus Captain again, I see that in a very different light, instead encapsulating what he said earlier in the song. He screwed up in a very bad way, and in reacknowledging Odysseus authority he accepts that he screwed up dramatically.
And I don't think making Eurylochus unknowingly pick six friends to die is "fair" as any sort of punishment. It's an incredible level of cruelty and Odysseus should be called out for. I'm sympathetic to Ody and want him to get home, but his actions during Scylla are completely unexcusible, because as I said prior, he opted to, without letting anyone on his crew know, cosign six random men to death without their knowledge just so he could live and he could get home. If he's going to make that choice he should not make someone else choose who dies, he's chosen that six men would die, he must be the one to make the choice of who.
Finally, intent means a lot to me, which is why I don't understand calling Eurylochus a hypocrite when itt comes to the Wind Bag. Eurylochus 100% fucked up there and I won't defend him, but the deaths that followed should not be place on his nor Odysseus hands, only on Poseidon, the God who killed them. The difference with the Wind Bag compared to Scylla is that Eurylochus never intended a single one of his friends and comrades to die, Odysseus fully intended on letting six men die so he could live, and that's inexcusable
Now with all that said, I want to be clear that I don't see Odysseus as a villain and I want him to get home and all that, I still root for him. But that doesn't mean I won't point out things hhe did that I fully think are awful things to do and should not be excused. No one in this musical is pure good or evil, but Odysseus in the Thunde Saga does Ruthless things to people who consider him a friend and a leader, and that is unacceptable for a leader, a Captain, a King, to do.
6 torches and 6 sacrifices. Love this song
I feel like so many people put too much blame on Ody. Don’t get me wrong, he definitely makes mistakes, but for the most part he usually makes good decisions and is smart about things. It sucks but I dont blame him for choosing himself over the crew after their betrayal.
Def dont blame him, just REALLY unfortunate...
Now that we’ve reached the Thunder Saga, I can tell you that the souls behind the prophet were saying things, as well. We don’t only know the first four, though. In order, it goes-
Siren song. Scylla throat. Mutiny. Lightning bolt.
Not sure about the final two. One sounds like it says Poseidon, though.
9:20 - "We all knew it": well you say that, but for the release party livestream there were no animatics to hint to us, only lyric videos, and Jay had explicitly said he was not including the sirens, so many of us didn't. The whole chat filled up with several instances of "wait, what?", like when she said 'daughter' and when the screen showed nothing but the caption 'Odysseus shoots Penelope'.
He also kept the titles of Suffering and Different Beast secret right up until they played for the first time, only calling them Song 21 and 22.
“Well, the sirens *were* cut” -Jay
@@Azziyaisalwaysonline Teeeechnicallyyyyy...
For the next saga, I would recommend (also an important side note):
Legendary- DuvetBox
Little Wolf- DuvetBox
We’ll Be Fine- SincerelyMaxx
Love in Paradise- Michus or DuvetBox
God Games- Here, I’d actually recommend the original livestream. It’s on Jorge’s channel, and the last part of the second half (they got split into two) streams. It’s multiple animators, and _so cool._
If you’d rather stick with fan animations, I recommend AnniFlama or Noir.Hyacinth, but people are going to ask for Neal Illustrators’. Theirs is well animated, however, it is _very_ strenuous on photosensitive viewers. (Speaking from personal experience). If you’d want to do two, like with Wouldn’t You Like, I’d like to kindly ask that you play that one last. Thank you 🩵
"half-cannibalisim that's half-bad.." 😂 And I loove Eurylochus calling Odysseus Ody and their talk happening after mutiny, it's heartbreaking! And golden blood (like gods) on cows because they're immortal is SO GOOD on that animation :D Also I think it's implied Eurylochus was so done he knew he would get killed when killing the cow but he didn't care..
"im sure he'd be happy to at least get his boys home,and not him. I think? I dont know, we'll find out."
Hahaha.....oh you =^)
my exact reaction lmao! like, “…oh. of course! totally. mhm. yeah…”
The only suggestion (even though I know it could be too late for it) I have for the next saga is the last song: God Games by Neal Illustrator. I think it's her best work so far
(Haven't finished the video yet but...) In defense of Eurylochus in Mutiny, during Keep Your Friends Close, he did not open the wind bag with the intent to get most of them killed by Poseidon. In Scylla, Odysseus made the conscious decision to sacrifice a handful of the few left - mostly for his own benefit. I believe you even mentioned in Keep Your Friends Close that instead of staying up for nine days, Odysseus should've given Eurylochus the task of guarding the bag while he slept, and if Ody had shown some trust instead of guarding the bag like it's some big secret, maybe SIC wouldn't have been tempted to sneak a peek at what their Captain had been hiding from them. (I mean, in the end, though, even if they'd made it home without opening the bag, Poseidon could've drowned the entirety of Ithaca in an attempt to enact revenge instead of facing them out in the middle of the ocean, so...)
I see you making correlation between "No Longer You" and the events after that song and you were right with the "song of past romance" being about the sirens but the "sacrifice of man" is actually about Scylla then "I see portrayals of betrayal and a brother's final stand" is about Mutiny. The rest of the things the prophet says will be seen in later Sagas
for the wisdom saga:
legendary - duvetbox
little wolf - duvetbox
we’ll be fine - gigi
love in paradise - duvetbox
god games - Anniflame !
I do really hope you take these creators into consideration! I think you can really tell which ones my favorite 😭, I’m excited for you to react to the wisdom and vengeance saga next upcoming!
The thing is: Eurylochus didn’t open the wind bag thinking it was the literal storm. The entire game with it was that Ody had to keep it closed, while the winions convinced everyone else it was treasure, and Ody keeping it with him at all times. So the crew legit thought that thing had treasure in it and Ody was hiding it from them. Still stupid but the point is that he didn’t open it knowing it would get people killed.
Ody on the other hand with Scylla, knew that in order to pass through he would have to sacrifice 5 men, one for each of her heads, and he didn’t tell anyone that was going to happen. No nobody but him knew they were going to Scylla bc they all had the wax in their ears. So Odysseus intentionally sacrificed their friends, and *that* is what Eurylochus is mad about
Great reaction as always! I do gotta defend my boy Eurylochus (the one with the big ass sword) though.
I dont think its entirely fair to fully blame Eurylochus opening the wind bag for the fleet getting massacred. Obviously while he does share some of the blame, it is Odysseus that spared the Cyclops and revealed his name, allowing Poseidon to identify and find them. Eurylochus just brought them closer. So they are both to blame for that one. Also, there is a difference between making a mistake that leads to deaths and knowingly sacrificing people (which if somebody hasn't already informed you, Odysseus making the crew light up six torches was him offering six men as a sacrifice for safe passage through Scylla's lair, which is why Eurylochus was so mad. It doesn't help that Odysseus originally intended for Eurylochus to be sacrificed too, but Eurylochus dropped his torch at some point so somebody else died instead).
28:53 I mean...yes. Assuming...you know..Scylla wouldn't have accepted the sirens as a sacrifice...
I wonder if Scylla wouldn’t have accepted the sirens because they weren’t enough of a sacrifice? I don’t remember how it worked in the original story, but maybe she only wanted something that was valuable to Odysseus? Like some random sirens they were going to kill anyways wouldn’t be much of a sacrifice to them.
@Chromaggia In the original story, there actually was no sacrifice. In the Odyssey, Scylla and Charybdis were almost right next to each other and the crew had to sail in between them. There's a moment where they're distracted by Charybdis, and Scylla attacks and snatches six men off the deck^^
@@TheCreepingHour Interesting! Thanks
I know I'm late to the Video, but I wanted put down my suggestions for Wisdom Saga:
1. Legendary by Roshi
2. Little Wolf by Duvetbox
3. We'll Be Fine by Kisu Doodles
4. Love in Paradise by Mikuchis
5. God Games by Noir.Hyacinth
Great work! Always a pleasure to watch you videos!
i think there's an argument to be had about which is worse:
killing 100s through foolishness
killing 6 with intent
Okay, but no one is in the wrong for mutiny
I understand Eury caused 500+ men to die, but he only wanted closure for what was in the bag, and he didn’t mean to kill ppl accidentally. But on odysseus’s side, he purposely sacrificed 6 men (bc scylla has 6 heads to feed) only because there were no other solutions to get home
So technically they are both wrong, but they have their own reasons.
I always wondered why Odysseus hears the Siren’s song during thunder bringer and not his actual wife. But I read a comment somewhere and it made perfect sense. He’s been away from home for 13 years at this point and despite it not actually being his wife, it was her voice, her face, the first time he’s seen or heard her since he left home. It’s the freshest “memory” he has of her.
My thoughts on the fishing issue: Poseidon hates Ody and his crew, so do you really think he'd allow them to fish in his waters? Because even prior to the journey, Ody and crew snubbed Poseidon and didn't give a proper sacrifice, hence "I've been so GRACIOUS"
I think you're the first reactor I've seen that actually related No Longer You to what happens in the Thunder Saga like that lol Most at least get the betrayal part but you caught everything else pretty well
As someone whose second favourite song from the entire musical is No Longer You, based af
edit: your rant during Mutiny is literally me lmao
I NEED you to react to the original livestream for the wisdom saga. The animatics Jorge uses in the livestream are animatics he personally commissioned so they are as accurate to his vision as possible.
Also, Ody did indeed willingly sacrificed those men. The 6 torches he had handed out were basically beacons for Scylla, one man for each of Scylla’s heads. And really he didn’t have much of a choice. It was either they fight their way out and lose a bunch more people, or choose 6 people to die.
And fun fact, Helios is god of the sun in Greek mythology before it became Apollo. Helios has a herd of immortal cows that he considers his friends and when he saw that Ody’s crew tried to kill one of his cows he went to Zeus and threatened to take the sun to the underworld. Now if he did that it would be hell because nothing would grow. It would basically be an apocalypse, and the gods want people alive to worship them. So Zeus stepped in.
MATT! If you see this! You have to know if you don’t!
In the close to the end of No Longer You! You can hear like a choir in the background and was telling the future of the thunder saga!! “Siren Song” “Scyllas throat” “Mutiny” “Lightning Bolt”
AND some from the future sagas you’ll see! “Fight Poseidon” “Kill All The Suitors for LOVE!”
I actually LOVE when people bring up fishing, because there's absolutely no way Poseidon would let them get food from the sea
When you do the Wisdom Saga, my vote for the "God Games" animatic is 100% Neal Illustrator's version. It's fantastic
Fun fact: Eurylochus was holding one of the torches......guess odysseus plans were twarted again😅
At the end of thunder bringer ody is being charged by all his crew, but he doesn't back away, or move.
He knows he's safe because he LITERALLY has a god backing him up.
Also, Neal illustrator does my absolute favorite thunder bringer animatic, if you want to see a differently egotistical version of Zeus, which is pretty much cannon, Zeus is narcissistic AF
28:00 i feel like people are too hard on Eurylochus. If he didn't open the bag Poseidon would have just drowned the entire Island once Ody got home.
Maybe! but WE WILL NEVER KNOW!!
For the Wisdom saga I would say to watch Jorge's livestream! The Wisdom saga has some of the best Official Animatics! But if not that.
Legendary - Rochi
Little wolf- Duvetbox
We'll be fine - Gigi
Love in paradise- Duvetbox
God Games - AnniFlamma or Neal Illustrator. AnniFlamma is more story accurate and have really cool God designs based on their Sacred animal! Neal Illustrator is more epic scaled, and kinda like a Video game fight! I like both equally so, either will would be cool : D
For the Wisdom Saga, could you do NEAL ILLUSTRATOR's "God Games" animatic? It's the coolest one so far.
Gigi's animatic of scylla is my favorite, so I love that you also pick up on all the small details that I love it for
u are one of the only persons i see who feel the same way i did the first time i saw mutiny like this damn crew man 😭 they really forgot Ody is still king
Easily my favorite react channel keep up the good work!
I think the point where you commented about the nets. Its not like Poseidon would let the men who hes trying to kill enjoy the bounties of the ocean
While Eury absolutely deserves blame for opening the bag, you gotta remember that his argument is not that men were killed, it was that Odysseus _knew_ that six people were going to die, like he actively made that decision, as opposed to Eury who opened the bag before anyone even knew that Posideon was the cause of the storm
I am in love with your Epic reactions, your energy and assumptions are so entertaining and I can’t wait for you to catch up! ☺️ also to note when Eurylocus opened the wind bag, they were so close to home they could actually see it. That’s what made it more upsetting because they were that close to home 🥲 I will be rewatching these reactions and be on the lookout for your upcoming ones! Welcome to the Epic community! 🥳🩷
Eurylochus has been trying to tell Odysseus about the wind bag since they landed on Circe’s island.