What are The Best Places to Move if You're Building Wealth?
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2021
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A few days ago we posted a video about where rich people choose to relocate.
This naturally arised a question- which are the best places to build wealth?
Today we’re covering exactly that!
The process of building wealth is quite different than maintaining wealth. Once you made money you need to make sure you keep it by paying less taxes and protecting your assets.
But what happens when you’re on the road to success? You don’t care as much about taxes, because you’re not paying much. You care about access to opportunities, financial infrastructure, funding and being discovered.
Traditionally famous offshore places are not at all good for that.
If you look at the statistics they tell you exactly the opposite- you’re more likely to build a successful company in countries like Denmark, Sweden and the USA than in Eastern Europe or South America.
So it all shows that countries for building wealth are quite different than countries for keeping wealth.
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We are Offshore Citizen team. We help people become global: get a second passport, set up a second residency, pay less taxes, do banking abroad, etc.
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Author: Michael Rosmer
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Spot on. This is one of your best videos. Best places to start off are places that have stability that arises out of transparency (minimal corruption), rule of law and respect for private property and extended capital markets If you look at societies that are not generating great financial success stories, you will see that they are lacking one or more of those characteristics. Most European countries (including France and Germany) have lesser access to capital markets and therefore their entrepreneurs are at a disadvantage when compared to USA for raising capital. The countries sometimes lack the culture of risk taking and entrepreneurship As an example a good friend who had a great technology solution idea in France could not get started in France because his friends, family and others in the financial system would tell him about all the reasons why he would fail. He got tired and went to Switzerland and started his startup and succeeded to sell his company to Swiss investors and later he went on to US for lager ideas involving even more risks, capital and talent pool. The people's culture and society that surrounds you matter.
“Feeling good” in the location you are in is EXTREMELY important. Of course taxes and regulations have to be reasonable but it is less important than most people including myself think. Better to pay 25% tax and live in your dream location than 0% in a place where you don’t feel home.
Yeah definitely agreed if we're talking long term. I think the only reason to do a place you dislike is if it's a short term stepping stone
Having like-minded peers in close proximity often propels people forward and makes higher goals easier to reach. It also has the benefit of negating self-limiting beliefs.
Ikkoo
Absolutely of course can hold you back as well depending on who they are
@@MichaelRosmer Motivational speaker Jim Rohn famously said that we are the average of the five people we spend the most time with. Pick your group wisely - hence why I watch your channel!
One of the most sagacious comments I have read on UA-cam in a while!
💯
I’m semi retired and am loving Europe. A little work, a little leisure and relaxation)
Sounds like Offshore Citizen's version of Maslow's hierarchy of needs?
Awesome stuff, keep them coming!
That's really good advice Michael and I can attest to being somewhere where you have you base level necessities taken care of really helped me focus on building.
Eric, thank you! Glad to hear that!
Anything you'd like to see next?
Awesome insight. I like how you're quite rational and objective and unlike some other channels you weigh all the options and don't write off any country.
Thank you for the support and kind words! It's appreciated ☺
A lot of value in this video.. Excellent Job!...
Thank you, Ricardo! Always a pleasure.
Anything you'd like to see next?
Film to me is Hollywood, Vancouver, New York, Atlanta, Austin, Wilmington, NC, Bollywood, Paris, London, Hong Kong, Tokyo, & Seoul. Finance to me is New York, London, Hong Kong, & Singapore, with some possibilities in the Bahamas & the Cayman Islands as well. Tech is the Bay Area of San Francisco, Seattle, Austin, Stockholm, Berlin, & Singapore.
I like your approach to this difficult question, the considerations are many and variable. Good starting point for the conversation.
Thank you, Howard! Happy to be of service ☺
Anything you'd like to see next?
I disagree. I lived in Uzbekistan and Russia. And trust me, they have A LOT of regulations and taxes. On paper Russia has 13% flat tax rate but government made it look like that for the purpose of populism. If you count all taxes, then real tax rate about 50%. Moreover, they have double digit inflation (thanks to money printing), so it's tax without representation. And you add sales tax. So in the end, you would give to government 60-70% of tax. In Russia (and in Uzbekistan), there are lots and lots of regulations created for sole purpose to either milk entrepreneurs (i.e. informal tax) or jail them if they are too stubborn (read this as 100% tax which also takes your life).
In Africa is exactly the same system. There were lots of communist countries, now it's just post-communist, socialist, corrupt states which lots of price controls and corruption. The governments there is like leeches, sucking everything from economy.
So in this sense, there is LESS state intervention in economy in countries like Sweden. And their taxes there isn't fuel of progress, if anything it slows down everything a lot.
I lived in Sweden as well. And I left Sweden for good when I realized I always be in corporate slavery because I will never save up enough money there.
That's why you should go to places like Hong Kong (where I'm) or Dubai or Singapore. Don't go to Germany, it's BAD advice.
Canada the same.
You're totally correct. I also don't like the fact that he focuses solely on taxes when he is talking about Africa. It is a total straw man argument that he is making it all about taxation.
Of course there are other factors like the culture, how trusting the society is in general, weather, educational levels etc.
Africa as a continent isn't as developed as the West not JUST because they have had high taxes and that is the only thing holding them back.
Just because most people are located in the West and make their success this way doesn't mean that there is not asymmetrical risk reward waiting for that one person who is going to a backwards country making their riches there since no one is actually there to compete with him.
In general though all the indicators are crystal clear that less state intervention brings about better results. Taxes, bureaucracy, a bad culture with low trust all of those are factors that need to be weighed when making a decision. That being said the West in general has peaked and will slowly crumble on it's moral shortcomings with huge debt loads, horrible incentives to not work and live of someone else's stolen money, repression of free expression which will stifle creativity. Yes right now the west may be living high but that will likely change in the next generation.
Depends what your position is
Thanks for sharing your insights from your experiences, I'm sure many will benefit.
I don't see why taxes are such evil. As explained in the video, it's not so much about individual factors but rather about the whole picture. Taxes mattera a lot less than you may think. Sweden, for example, has a culture of being innovative and risk taking and that's why many middle class/lower class people start a business there. Higher taxes is a problem only if you belong to the absolute top in terms of income and/or wealth, which is a one in an x million chance anyway.
Excellent analysis about taxes and the importance of starting from a secure position (safety net). Also, I totally agree with your recommended locations.
Thank you so much, Fatma. Appreciate your compliments and happy you like our video.
Anything you'd like to see next?
@@OffshoreCitizen Thanks, Michael. I truly value your insights and found many of your videos here useful. Would you be interested to examine these options to form an offshore company in the UK?
www.1stformations.co.uk/compare-packages/
www.yourcompanyformations.co.uk/packages/international/
Awesome stuff, Yes indeed and Thanks for not being solely focused on Your billionaire clientele when creating content 👍
PS: What did You mean when You said UK can be „painful” ?
Great video as always, Mike.Excellent analysis. I think what you said is spot on. First-world county is great when you want to start, but once you make some money, get out and leave to a place that is optimal for you. I have a suggestion to make: As you run an online business, I want to hear your opinion or journey that discusses how to build a location-independent business.
Thank you!
And thanks for the suggestion! Definitely a good idea👍
Before I watch: as much as the offshore crowd likes to be contrarian (myself included), the geography of wealth is still pretty darn important. That moves California, New York, Switzerland, Toronto, London... to the top in the West. Of course, this says nothing about specific situations... My father-in-law became pretty wealthy in Switzerland as a high-school dropout working as a horticulturist and then working in a second-hand shop. That would not have happened almost anywhere else. There was a wonderful talk by the LSE several years ago which said that geography is the most important factor in wealth creation, followed by career/industry choice. If I can find the podcast again I'll post it here.
Please do post the podcast if you are able. It sounds interesting.
Please post that!
I'll dig it up tonight! The LSE Public Lectures are a treasure source of valuable info.
@@samjordan8800 I'm having trouble finding it and I can't spend 24 hours searching... But here's a link to all of the LSE lectures: digital.library.lse.ac.uk/collections/publiclectures/subject; www.lse.ac.uk/International-History/Podcasts. You can't go wrong with any of them and if you try hard enough and have enough time, I'm sure you could find it. I'd guess it was around 2015/2016.
@@Topknot60 I'm having trouble finding it and I can't spend 24 hours searching... But here's a link to all of the LSE lectures: digital.library.lse.ac.uk/collections/publiclectures/subject; www.lse.ac.uk/International-History/Podcasts. You can't go wrong with any of them and if you try hard enough and have enough time, I'm sure you could find it. I'd guess it was around 2015/2016.
Spot on!!
Thank you!
Anything you'd like to see next?
Is there anything on living and or tax information in Albania? Being in between Montenegro and Greece could in be and up and coming area?
Good stuff. Great analysis but probably could have cut 5-7 minutes off the vid. But you bring up good points we don’t usually think about
Thanks, Riley. Happy you're enjoying our content
You're smart my guy
I think there are some interesting tax and expense arbitrage opportunities for people at the low income level even doing something like driving for Uber or DoorDash in the US if they have a very low cost residence in the US & they start or operate a travel blog or travel vlog these days. I mean if you can get into a situation with roommates or a sublet situation where your expenses are under $1k a month in the US or if you are a van dweller for example, & you then travel 50% of the time to cheap locations overseas, you could really make most of your living expenses tax deductible & live a fairly interesting life at relatively low cost. I mean airfare can be cheap to the right places & long term stays at AirBNBs in a lot of countries are far less than rent in the USA, but if you are writing a Tavel blog or making a travel vlog it can be a business expense along with meals. There are a lot of interesting possibilities in the lifestyle business arena even if you are engaging primarily in a side hustle that is looked down on to earn the bulk of your income. If you are frugal there are interesting opportunities.
Insightful point of view. That's a lot! I have been thinking about the topic from completely different angle! I like the highlight of having a "right environment" for your type of business which tends to be much more valuable than tax savings.
My personal view is based on a job being 100% remote and having a moderate capital build up already. With these conditions in mind I think exploring Eastern Europe further might make a lot of sense. Thanks again!
Your view makes sense as well. Glad we've helped you look at things from a different perspective.
Good luck with exploring Eastern Europe and come back to share your impressions ☺
Thanks
Thanks for the support!
Anything you'd like us to cover next?
My guess on the Most important thing : Network / people / community 😊
Good guess☺
Hugely important putting a finer point on it: culture, expertise, motivation, capital
@@OffshoreCitizen guess? Okay than what is your guess?
Thanks for this marvelous video n thanks for sharing your great expertise n indepth knowledge on creating wealth in d right countries.
You're welcome! It's always a pleasure!
@@OffshoreCitizen 😀
I am an American expat, and I feel no need to be near other entrepreneurs for influence because I have, "the internet". Being around others for influence is becoming obsolete.
@trique9776 As an American you don't have that fear changes over the next decades. You are already there with citizenship-based worldwide taxation. And if you want to renounce your citizenship to avoid those taxes that provide no value to you (You are not there.), you pay a hefty exit tax.
Sweden and the Nordic countries have fewer business regulations than other countries, not more. People there are able to pursue their dreams much more than in other countries. Africa has far more trade and business regulations than Scandinavia. Love the video :)
Some great thoughts here. Of course, many would frown upon the idea that one would leverage countries with social welfare programs then leave as soon as you have built something that would feed back into it. But I appreciate the matter-of-fact advice here.
The framework is build wealth where it is based off your industry (in my case it's the US, tech cloud industry), then consume the wealth in a different environment. Unless you're scared of a bad sequence of return that could wipe your wealth, the final environment can be vastly different from where you build your wealth. If you're somewhere in between, maybe move to a place that still can help you build your wealth, but maybe not as fast.
Great observation, where do you think of for consumption?
@@MichaelRosmer I think it's vastly dependent on the individual. Some people are closer to asian values, while other prefer to be surrounded by latin or Mediterranean folks. One thing people tend to underestimate is the acclimatation to a different speed of life. Bureaucracy, small corruption etc. That's especially true for Americans as in America everything is designed to consume fast. There is no friction when someone is going to take your money. Sometimes in places like Spain even businesses make it hard for you to spend money and give it to them.
Personally I think in my old age I will probably be in a place where I understand the framework of the country (not necessarily agree but at least I understand the rules) and don't want to have to speak a foreign language to be understood if I start going senile. That means the place I grew up in, France.
Before that, my playground will probably be a mix of Spain/Portugal until kids are out of high school, just so they can get into European universities easier. After that, probably a mix of Malaysia to be able to reduce the spend and the sequence of return risk. With a little bit of travelling everywhere.
I also seriously consider Luxembourg before retiring.
The reason is if I live off capital gains its 0% and I can structure my estate to leave everything tax free to the surviving spouse. I can still collect a decent income in my field. There is not a lot of places in the EU where you can attain 0% income tax and 0% inheritance.
Also collecting an excellent passport in case I need to get rid of the French one but be able to visit family.
I loved the part where you said If you're building an online business then go to some Eastern European Countries like Bulgaria and just grind there without any distractions with good infrastructure and good qualify of living for a cheaper price.
Thank you!
Planning anything similar?
@@OffshoreCitizen yep
Low cost of Living with excellent infrastructure is a factor.
It definitely is
VERY Good to know!!! Was looking at Montenegro, but Bulgaria may be a better option. One thing to mention and reason I was going for Montenegro, is Bulgaria has the E2 VISA Treaty with USA.
That is a major plus for me. Between that, a better business environment (It appears) and a better Passport, Bulgaria may be a better option.
We've done many videos on both countries, that can also help make the final decision.
Have you watched them?
@@OffshoreCitizen Yes Sir but has been a while. I will go back and review.
Thank You and Be Blessed!
America is great at starting from nothing. But once you hit a net wealth of a couple million or I should say a certain mark than it is harder to get pass that. Example, if you go to some other country or Africa with a couple million the sky is the limit and you can build wealth a lot faster. If you are going to retire you need to move to a place where you have good internet, decent healthcare and low cost of living. Everyone needs and business is different but this podcast is spot on and a eye opener
Factors: Demographics and Taxation. Governments that loot 50% make it impossible to create wealth.
Yes that's France, Canada, Sweeden, etc....
Entrepreneurs are running away from these cities London, San Francisco even though they have the systems but the cost of living is rising perpetually.
Shout-out rural Missouri haha
Does moving back in with my parents count?
Is it true that UAE might be offering CBI in the near future? I'm still focusing on Turkey's CBI. There's a possibility I may be eligible for Portugal and Spain's citizenship by ancestery. So, I am excited for the UAE program. But, the thought of living in the heat of Dubai doesn't sound attractive. Not really a fan of being cooped up in AC buildings all day. But, can be doable.
I think the weather is only brutal in the summer months
I think chicken will have teeths the day the UAE offers a CBI like carribean islands :D
They've said they will allow foreigners to get citizenship there but not CBI
The lack of money can also be a great motivation. Beyond the basic living requirements, you need to succeed. No choice.
True that!
Can be yes though usually that doesn't apply when you don't have the basics
If that were remotely true than everyone would be rich the world over. It's all about education. Motivation is just the dangling liberty of reaching ones evermore daring goals
Hey Micheal, did u make research on Central Asian countries? I'm holder of Uzbekistan's passport, just was curious if there are any benefits you discovered that we should be aware of
thanks you for your work and insights mate, as alwas very appreciated!
It's not an area I have deep expertise in yet but I'm keen to learn
Would you advise to or against buying property in Dubai? I’ve come across a lot of conflicting information.
Depends on the deal, the location, etc. Overall I'd say broadly I'm bullish but right now I think it's too hot so I'm waiting till maybe next year
I’m in Tbilisi Georgia and in a “building” phase. Just now getting to low six figures. The people I meet here are usually freelancers and developers. Not a lot of business people. Starting to get lonely in that regard. So considering other options like Malaysia, Bulgaria etc.
That's understandable. Feel free to reach out in case you need any assistance with figuring the things out
@@OffshoreCitizen already bought your services and I am very happy with the results. To anyone else reading this, don’t hesitate to get started with OffshoreCitizen.
Always happy to be of service! Thanks for your support
Michael, is Thailand or Singapore the best place to start a business. Please advise.
I am Canadian and I wish to be an entrepreneur
Depends on many other details and nuances involved. Best is to reach out through our website or book a call
Time stamps please!
Noted!
How did you like the video?
I am in my mid 30's . As an IT guy which country would be best ? Less tax etc.
Depends what level you're at now and where you can get the best network for your field
Romania doesn-t apply income tax for IT industry!
please post these videos on instagram so i can also get your content while scrolling through
Miami is becoming the financial Capital of the USA
I live in the Netherlands and I hate it here. Taxwise it would be perfect but I really need out. I wish spain would be an option but it would be fucked tax wise.
Why do you hate it?
Would love to live on NL
I am from India 🇮🇳 plz tell me about country which is good for Indians for less tax
mauritius & Malaysia
People asked me how the hell I left Canary Island to come to Canada... you just explained to them ;)
Do you regret it ? Canada is so bad since Covid, a lot of people left for good. That country is definitely not worth the move.
A lot of money is being made in AFRICA NOW because it is not a full developed economy like the US or UK - The richest guy in Africa is worth 20 BILLION US Dollars - on CEMENT, FLOUR + SUGAR and the richest women is worth 8 BILLION US Dollars - on OIL! who are both Africans from Nigeria.
Very tough to do as a foreigner and not even close to other places on a relative basis
What happened? Your website is gone and no Tweets since 2020?
Unfortunately, we've been having some issues with our websites but are working on fixing it.
Our most active social at the moment is Instagram. Feel free to follow to keep up
Taxation
Scottish Limited Partnership is a more than good enough banking environment; and the partner companies may be in Turkey and Morocco? Low costs of university educated graduates in Turkey are sufficient for competent operations, together with fast internet access? Ankara agreement with the European Union gives Turkish citizens good enough access to work permits in the European Union! Third country citizens can obtain residency and work permit rights in Turkey! Corporate dividend participation exemption from overseas tax is an advantage in Turkey? Keep up the great work!
African counties are poor because there is not a strong work ethic, not because people are preoccupied with surviving and can't afford to take risks. Take Germany and Japan after the war, they were in much worse shape than most African countries are now, yet not only did they rebuild but became world leaders within a generation. Wealth is created by producing things that others actually want to buy, which takes a lot of work.
Low government intervention is all you need