For context, the Armored Core series has a running project across universes known most commonly as Human Plus. Those who undergo Human Plus augmentation typically do it to get rid of their debt or willingly to make themselves better at their jobs (specifically AC piloting and bodyguarding). They are more often than not stripped of their original identity and are marked with a designation (In the original Armored Core, it was Rebel-String of numbers.) Early-gen augmentation from VI seems to follow the same principles as Human Plus augmentation from other Armored Core universes. Leos Klein, the villain of Armored Core 2, is 92, but it sounds like he's in his late 30s through the entire game, thanks to his augmentation. Cryosleep is also implied to exist during the Allmind ending of Fires of Rubicon, and in the Armored Core Light Novel, we see a woman who underwent Human Plus augmentation, which left her looking like a young woman unable to age, so while 621 might be chronologically old, we have no reason to believe they'd look or move like a geezer. P.S. About the aging mercenary who's to be the trigger, it was Sulla who was Allmind's first pick before 621 came along; she planned on having Sulla bond with Ayre. Iguazu is definitely young. Coral has been rediscovered for the last few years, the game heavily implies that the RLF has been trading B.A.W.S. Coral in exchange for weapons and AC parts. The coral used in Iguazu's augmentation was most likely obtained in the black market after B.A.W.S. sold it.
Havn't seen more than 30 seconds but i gotta say we are in SPACE. The beginning of the game Walter says "wake the hound up" So there is always the possibility that 621 was in some sort of cryogenic sleep. Him being an old person is a neat idea tho.
@@kirbyis4ever Are you talking about at the end of the Allmind route? I will have to check the dialogue in the missions. But I don't think this causes a time skip, because all the events seem contemporary with the other story routes.
@@theeldenconspiracy9451 I do speak of the ALLMIND NG++ story. When 621 wakes up on the Xylem she notes that you were in stasis and smuggled aboard so you could be activated later to tie up loose ends. Walter's way of storing us isn't explained as far as I know, nor how the actual stasis works. As for time skip? It would basically be mandatory. The coral collection is built no matter what you do and it can be assumed it took some time since Arquebus takes the entire city.
@@theeldenconspiracy9451 The allmind route is contemporary with the other endings, but there's a line in a cutscene some time after being abducted by snail, that explains that while we were stuck in the reeducation camp, there was a good time skip that happened. It was long enough that Arquebus had enough time to completely rebuild the coral siphon, which is absolutely GIANTIC. That cutscene implies that a good amount of time passes between being captured and our escape to the first two endings. It makes sense to have the allmind ending take a similar time skip. Still, we don't know if that form of sleep also extends people's lives, or if they still age relatively normally during their sleep. I'm choosing to believe that Carla is quite old. She's probably augmented in some capacity, and I think that there's definitely some life extension that happens as part of augmentation. Sulla is obviously very old, which shows that augmented humans can live very long while still being capable of piloting an AC. If Carla received augmentation during her stay at the B.R.I. then she could easily be old, without looking very old. If augmentation preserves your age when you get it, she was quite young when she would have been augmented. Still, even if Carla is unaugmented, she could still be very old. If you pay attention to her AC, it's a heavy weight AC that uses 100% missiles, which don't require extreme aiming skills. She doesn't actually need good reflexes or piloting skill to use her AC. It would be one of the lowest skill ACs to use out of any of the arena opponents. She could be ancient, and still pilot her AC well enough. The only data that indicates that she's young is a single Coyote log, which might not be the most honest place to get data from. There's also the option that Carla is doing something to hide her true age, but at this point I'm purely speculating.
There is some implications that just because there are newer gens of augmentation, some pilots still undergo older processes due to accessibility - For example Iguazu. He also went through gen 4 augmentation due to debt that he acquired through gambling. I think this is left ambiguous for the sake of letting the player put themselves on the character, same reason why 621 doesnt explicitly talk, even though there are some implications like Walter saying we "Said" to him we were hearing voices.
It's weird that many people have this same idea, that older generations would somehow be more accessible. But the older procedures also required coral, the ultra-rare substance which comes from only one planet in the known universe. If anything, this would make the earlier augmentations less accessible, and incredibly expensive. This makes Iguazu perhaps the biggest anomaly in this game. It doesn't make sense that someone would undergo coral augmentation out of desparation, after the fires of Ibis. This could only happen in the context of experimentation. In which case, Iguazu would have been around in the early days, closer to Carla in age than anyone else. So why do they sound so young, when they obviously aren't? Iguazu even acts young. Either some important story details were cut from the game or it was written without this kind of consistency in mind. It's like two people wrote the story separately and just mashed them together at the end.
@@theeldenconspiracy9451 it's not that they would be more accessible, just cheaper for corps. They see someone who is desperate for money, they have access to enough coral (As seen on the mission you have to destroy coral supplies for Allmind) and then they use some of that residual coral for their pilots. Keep the best and most resource intensive version of the procedure for the best candidates, and use the cheaper and (probably) less resource intensive one for the ones you don't really care about. Rusty for example is someone who (supposedly) went through generation 8 augmentation while generation 10 augmentation is already available. Plus, it's not the first time the series explored the topic of companies using desperate people to do invasive and unnecessary procedures that would just make them better at piloting ACs for them, while still having access to less invasive and better procedures, but just not doing them because it requires more resources. Plus, I might be wrong on this, but augmentation didn't stop after the fires of ibis. After the corps came back to Rubicon they 100% did more augmentations afterwards. And, as I've mentioned before with Rusty, he does go through Generation 8 augmentation AFTER Gen 10 is available and AFTER the Fires of Rubicon. How do I know this? The RLF was only formed after the leak to fight off the corps that were taking the coral supplies that the surviving rubiconians were using to grow mealworms, and Rusty is an RLF soldier that joined the vespers to spy on them. This timeline of events cannot happen pre-fires, only after.
That's exactly what I assumed. Walter doesn't seem like the richest guy ever and he originally had 5 pilots under his leash in total, it makes sense to ho for an older, cheaper type of augmentation, taking sheer numbers over power. He didn't quite account for 621's tenacity and vectors though..
@@theeldenconspiracy9451Bear in mind, while amounts of Coral present on Rubicon for Corporations are dissapointing, there are still presumably loads of smaller coral stores on Rubicon. The corps just don't care about such a trivial amount, but that can still be used to augment gen 4's, seeing as in the trailer it really didn't seem like there was too much coral being used. Being an older gen seems to lead to less efficiency than those of newer gens, (despite the deceptive lack of skill from newer gens in-game) so that combined with the apparent lower cost would make it an attractive option for independents. As well as Iguazu who no-one seems to give a crap about... It's important to remember these are future-style Corporations with abilities far beyond the likes of Google or Disney even, finding a few scraps of coral no-one wants would be trivial for them.
@@Ixarus6713 The thing I find extremely odd is that the mercs that work for the big corps, the Vespers and the Redguns, by and large, do not have coral augmentation. Whereas the main character, who is talked about like a throwaway dog, has the magical coral augmentation which allows them to communicate with Ayer. Maybe it's just plot contrivance? Seems backwards.
theres also some soft implication (at least i think so) that walter and 621 were around for the fires of ibis, tho the story trailer seemingly taking place “just before” the game may disprove that
There is some circumstantial evidence that stasis technology exists in a data log from the Honest Brute mission where some Coyote grunts talk about how Carla appears too young to be a Cinder, and also with how Carla seems to have simply appeared a few years before the game started with an army of genius engineers and no information at all about what she did in the 47 years between the Fires of Ibis and her joining RaD. My personal assumption is that Carla and her engineers were all a part of the RRI before the fires and they went to sleep afterwards to wait and see if the Coral would come back. My reasoning here is that both the other confirmed Cinders, Dolmayan and Sulla are both called old or aging (I'm pretty sure Sulla is the "aging mercenary" since he's working with ALLMIND's invisible MTs and he's specifically highlighted as a Release Project candidate in the briefing for the O'Keefe mission) while Carla is specifically called out as being suspiciously young. That would mean 621 was probably made before the fires and shipped out and put on ice to be sold off world, allowing them to escape the fires, and then never got bought as augmentations advanced and no one wanted a 4th gen anymore. As for Iguazu, I think he was made very recently after the Coral was rediscovered, since he was forced to get augmentation because of gambling debts and in the Depths II fight, he calls the doctor who augmented him a "quack" neither of which jive with what we know about the RRI, the reason he has old augments is just down to the fact that new gens are proprietary corpo tech while old gen methods could be scavenged theoretically by anyone on Rubicon, and due to the shady circumstances of his augmentations, I doubt whoever gave them to him were rubbing shoulders with the likes of Arquebus.
You'd think if cryo-sleep technology existed it would be mentioned somewhere. I'll check that datalog. About Iguazu, there's a datalog that mentions both him and Volta have been in the Redguns for seven years. So, either coral was rediscovered about seven years ago, or Iguazu was augmented with leftover coral, or he's very old. Iguazu doesn't have a designation, (that we know of) so that could mean he was augmented 'off-the-books' somehow. My contention about Sulla, (who also sounds young despite being 60+), is that he seems to be guarding the watchpoint. This is very different from what the datalog about the aging mercenary proposes. If he is working with Allmind, then that means he wouldn't want to get into contact with Ayre, because Allmind doesn't like coral-symbiosis. From the alternate Xylem mission, Allmind says "Coral-symbiosis is nothing more than the exploitation of coral" Allmind doesn't want symbiosis, she basically wants Coral to overtake the universe independent of humanity. This is why Dolmayan attacks you, because he's seen visions of coral spreading through the universe and killing humanity as a result of coral release. This is why I don't think Sulla would be looking for Ayre, he would want to STOP someone else from finding Ayre. But then, who left the log at the watchpoint? Possibly someone involved with the RLF or RAD, some faction who wants coral-symbiosis.
I kind of assumed this as well. Or there's some form of anti-aging tech involved. Otherwise Carla is bare minimum 60 years old. I assume something similar happened to Walter when he got sent to Jupiter
i kinda liken the augmentation leads to slow aging like how cybernetic implants work in cyberpunk where people live over 100 years and age very slowly.
havent seen another else point it out but the time given until the fires of ibis, 47 hours 2 minutes 16 seconds, in nagai’s 4th log, 2 minutes 16 seconds is dangerously close to 621. C4 is 3 and 4, added equals 7. 47216.
great video, just one nitpick, when iguazu says that freak actually did it I think he’s referring to rusty actually landing the shot on the iceworm with the railgun
This is the weirdest take I've seen. Occam's Razor: You're a grandpa with machine like reflexes OR you were cryogenically frozen OR the augmentations you got were old for accessability reasons. I like possibility 3 bc its pretty clear Walter is running a rag tag operation
I've heard the 'old implants' theory before. C4-621 is a designation, which suggests that they were augmented in an official capacity, i.e. not a black market operation and not after the operation had long been obsolete. 621 is one of 'gen four's lot' as Sulla puts it, which suggests he was part of the initial run of generation 4 augmented humans. Considering the current generation is number 10, this represents a gap in time the game never tries to explain. Therefore, Occam's razor would dictate your character is an elderly person. You just think it's a weird take because you don't want to consider you might be playing as an elderly person :)
Sulla is honestly the best piece of supporting data for how augmentation mixes with aging. He's first gen, which killed most of the people undergoing it. Yet he's still a good AC pilot, with plenty of ability. As noted in the Rubiconian Research Institute's parts, ACs move fast enough that an unaugmented human would struggle to pilot one, let alone handle the stress it would place on the human body. Based on Sulla's performance, it's obvious that augmenting keeps human reflexes high, even into old age. It seems reasonable that many of the Gen 4 pilots are very old.
Considering Gen 4 augmentation operates using coral to interface with machines, namely the armored cores, the only times 621 could have reasonably augmented is shortly before the events of the game, or before the fires of ibis and were put into stasis in order to keep 621 alive and to maintain the coral in their body. Ayre making contact also explains why over the course of the game, 621 is hinted at being more lively and is able to move enough to enter jailbreak, because Ayre is literally powering 621's augmentations
@@xSinisterSixx very beginning of the game when 621 is put into loader 4. There is a computer notification about your coral neural interface activating. There are a few logs mentioning how gens 1-4 used coral too, which is why only gens 1-4 can make contact
Personally I'm under the belief that 621 can be anything we want to think they are because we don't know much about them but I think 621 at some point after getting their augmentations was cryogenically frozen input into like a storage inventory for a Time before being adopted by Handler Walter Reason being the story trailer for the game has 621 in a body bag of some kind and was going through some kind of process getting prepped for Handler Walter what the scientists in the trailer pacifically saying "you're helping me cleaning out my inventory" which means this scientist person had 621 for quite some time Also in that trailer you can see Coral being pumped into 621 during the trailer suggesting that Coral is still out there but maybe in small quantities outside of Rubicon what's my also explained how iguazu was able to get Gen 4 augmentation granted it's also suggested that his augmentations we're not done properly which is why he couldn't really make contact like 621 can and said all he heard was painful static Also Iguazu brains up a comment after doing the damn mission where you meet him for the first time saying " you were the only warm body they can find " which can support the idea that cryogenic freezing is a practice One last thing because I know this comment is quite long but another character who seems to defy the laws of Aging is Carla that the game suggest that she looks much younger than she supposed to be since she was a adult around the time the fires of Ibis happened I believe she also went under cryogenic freezing for a Time which is why she looks younger than she supposed to Again I'm not saying 621 is Young because we don't know how old they were before being cryogenically frozen if that is what happened but that could help the idea of 621 being young despite being technically quite old
Even if there was a form of cryostasis, just like Aang from Last Airbender, your body is still aging. 621 would still, regardless, be an elderly person despite their appearance.
This is an interesting point most sci-fi creators don't take into account :) But I was thinking more along the lines of something seen in most sci-fi media to explain how a character experienced a time-skip of some kind. If 621 or other characters experienced something like that, wouldn't some lore talk about it? Just saying.
621 being Walters last resort makes sense imo since I always kinda wondered why we ,for the most part, were operating alone. Seeing the trailers implied to me that we maybe working alongside other hounds of Walter npcs or actual players through coop but we are his last man. He didn’t purchase a batch he just threw us in and seemed weirdly confident in our abilities considering there were HUNDREDS of hounds before us so there must be something that sets us apart and I think that might have something to do with 617. 617 I believe survived the events in the trailers and went on to become Raven. Whenever we encounter the og Raven they don’t say a word and I believe he was a gen 4 just like us and his ac is even similar to our beginning set up but modified. Awesome vid and thx for reading 👍
What's interesting is that the members of Branch, including Raven's operator, all know C4-621's designation, while pretty much all the other corporate mercs all call you Raven and never mention your generation or designation.
@@theeldenconspiracy9451Given that they are "hacktivists" It wouldn't be surprising if just like ALLMIND they can gather data easily or tap in like Carla does for her arena entry
I want to believe that older gen augmentations are still practiced in black markets because it may be more accessible, faster and cheaper than newer generations. It would explain how Iguazu, someone who had accrued massive debt, was able to receive gen 4 augmentation; because it was the cheapest and safest option. I’d say it’s up in the air about how old 621 is but I like to think that the operator’s line of “This one is… functional but don’t expect much more.” Is more about how 621 didn’t show that much promise in regards to combat ability initially. As opposed to 617, who is mentioned several times specifically by other characters in game. It seems 617 was an exceptionally good pilot. Maybe the augmentation exhausts 621 more than other recipients but is still passable to operate an AC, like a kid who gets sick very often trying to participate consistently in a sports team. As for 621’s past, I’d like to think that certain humans are raised essentially as cattle to pilot ACs. It would be much more efficient if there was a farm of humans that Walter could get pilots from as opposed to him recruiting people. If the numbering system is anything to go by, he’s gone through six-hundred and twenty other pilots before the player character. It goes in hand with the dehumanization aspect since 621 is effectively a slave. Well, they’re paid in COAM currency so I suppose you could say in court that they aren’t legally a slave but it’s not a good argument, just another aspect of even more dehumanizing of AC pilots.
Logs indicate that the earlier generations of augmentation(including gen four), required coral. Considering this augmentation would be taking place well after the fires of Ibis, I doubt a procedure requiring coral would be "cheaper" or more "accessible"
Idk, watching the kind of world that AC6 is, and the fact that at the start of the game 621 "awakes" makes me think that eithee augmentation can be done in very young persons or 621 could indeed be a piece of tuna in a refrigerator
How do we know it's still available? And why would the older gen augmentation be cheaper when it requires Coral, the macguffin resource that is the entire reason the corps are on Rubicon? The economics are out of whack.
I mean you would think they would mention your age if that was true it's more believable for their to be cryo sleep especially since in the beginning of the game Walter says wake up the hound .....plus it's a sci fy but still a pretty cool concept
Old men get it done I guess. As a current gen soldier, I'd be scared to go against a WWII soldier with a garand, or a even Vietnam soldier with an old school M16. Experience means everything.
For context, the Armored Core series has a running project across universes known most commonly as Human Plus. Those who undergo Human Plus augmentation typically do it to get rid of their debt or willingly to make themselves better at their jobs (specifically AC piloting and bodyguarding). They are more often than not stripped of their original identity and are marked with a designation (In the original Armored Core, it was Rebel-String of numbers.) Early-gen augmentation from VI seems to follow the same principles as Human Plus augmentation from other Armored Core universes. Leos Klein, the villain of Armored Core 2, is 92, but it sounds like he's in his late 30s through the entire game, thanks to his augmentation.
Cryosleep is also implied to exist during the Allmind ending of Fires of Rubicon, and in the Armored Core Light Novel, we see a woman who underwent Human Plus augmentation, which left her looking like a young woman unable to age, so while 621 might be chronologically old, we have no reason to believe they'd look or move like a geezer.
P.S. About the aging mercenary who's to be the trigger, it was Sulla who was Allmind's first pick before 621 came along; she planned on having Sulla bond with Ayre. Iguazu is definitely young. Coral has been rediscovered for the last few years, the game heavily implies that the RLF has been trading B.A.W.S. Coral in exchange for weapons and AC parts. The coral used in Iguazu's augmentation was most likely obtained in the black market after B.A.W.S. sold it.
I wonder does Human plus still exist in AC6s timeline but coral augmentation was just deemed better.
Havn't seen more than 30 seconds but i gotta say we are in SPACE. The beginning of the game Walter says "wake the hound up" So there is always the possibility that 621 was in some sort of cryogenic sleep. Him being an old person is a neat idea tho.
There's also the EXPLICIT stasis that ALLMIND puts the character in.
@@kirbyis4ever Are you talking about at the end of the Allmind route? I will have to check the dialogue in the missions. But I don't think this causes a time skip, because all the events seem contemporary with the other story routes.
@@theeldenconspiracy9451 I do speak of the ALLMIND NG++ story. When 621 wakes up on the Xylem she notes that you were in stasis and smuggled aboard so you could be activated later to tie up loose ends. Walter's way of storing us isn't explained as far as I know, nor how the actual stasis works.
As for time skip? It would basically be mandatory. The coral collection is built no matter what you do and it can be assumed it took some time since Arquebus takes the entire city.
@@theeldenconspiracy9451 The allmind route is contemporary with the other endings, but there's a line in a cutscene some time after being abducted by snail, that explains that while we were stuck in the reeducation camp, there was a good time skip that happened. It was long enough that Arquebus had enough time to completely rebuild the coral siphon, which is absolutely GIANTIC. That cutscene implies that a good amount of time passes between being captured and our escape to the first two endings. It makes sense to have the allmind ending take a similar time skip. Still, we don't know if that form of sleep also extends people's lives, or if they still age relatively normally during their sleep.
I'm choosing to believe that Carla is quite old. She's probably augmented in some capacity, and I think that there's definitely some life extension that happens as part of augmentation. Sulla is obviously very old, which shows that augmented humans can live very long while still being capable of piloting an AC. If Carla received augmentation during her stay at the B.R.I. then she could easily be old, without looking very old. If augmentation preserves your age when you get it, she was quite young when she would have been augmented.
Still, even if Carla is unaugmented, she could still be very old. If you pay attention to her AC, it's a heavy weight AC that uses 100% missiles, which don't require extreme aiming skills. She doesn't actually need good reflexes or piloting skill to use her AC. It would be one of the lowest skill ACs to use out of any of the arena opponents. She could be ancient, and still pilot her AC well enough. The only data that indicates that she's young is a single Coyote log, which might not be the most honest place to get data from. There's also the option that Carla is doing something to hide her true age, but at this point I'm purely speculating.
@@theeldenconspiracy9451sulla doesn't sound old and he's a first gen augment? also 621 is fourth gen right?
There is some implications that just because there are newer gens of augmentation, some pilots still undergo older processes due to accessibility - For example Iguazu. He also went through gen 4 augmentation due to debt that he acquired through gambling.
I think this is left ambiguous for the sake of letting the player put themselves on the character, same reason why 621 doesnt explicitly talk, even though there are some implications like Walter saying we "Said" to him we were hearing voices.
It's weird that many people have this same idea, that older generations would somehow be more accessible. But the older procedures also required coral, the ultra-rare substance which comes from only one planet in the known universe. If anything, this would make the earlier augmentations less accessible, and incredibly expensive.
This makes Iguazu perhaps the biggest anomaly in this game. It doesn't make sense that someone would undergo coral augmentation out of desparation, after the fires of Ibis. This could only happen in the context of experimentation. In which case, Iguazu would have been around in the early days, closer to Carla in age than anyone else. So why do they sound so young, when they obviously aren't? Iguazu even acts young.
Either some important story details were cut from the game or it was written without this kind of consistency in mind. It's like two people wrote the story separately and just mashed them together at the end.
@@theeldenconspiracy9451 it's not that they would be more accessible, just cheaper for corps. They see someone who is desperate for money, they have access to enough coral (As seen on the mission you have to destroy coral supplies for Allmind) and then they use some of that residual coral for their pilots. Keep the best and most resource intensive version of the procedure for the best candidates, and use the cheaper and (probably) less resource intensive one for the ones you don't really care about. Rusty for example is someone who (supposedly) went through generation 8 augmentation while generation 10 augmentation is already available.
Plus, it's not the first time the series explored the topic of companies using desperate people to do invasive and unnecessary procedures that would just make them better at piloting ACs for them, while still having access to less invasive and better procedures, but just not doing them because it requires more resources.
Plus, I might be wrong on this, but augmentation didn't stop after the fires of ibis. After the corps came back to Rubicon they 100% did more augmentations afterwards. And, as I've mentioned before with Rusty, he does go through Generation 8 augmentation AFTER Gen 10 is available and AFTER the Fires of Rubicon. How do I know this? The RLF was only formed after the leak to fight off the corps that were taking the coral supplies that the surviving rubiconians were using to grow mealworms, and Rusty is an RLF soldier that joined the vespers to spy on them. This timeline of events cannot happen pre-fires, only after.
That's exactly what I assumed. Walter doesn't seem like the richest guy ever and he originally had 5 pilots under his leash in total, it makes sense to ho for an older, cheaper type of augmentation, taking sheer numbers over power.
He didn't quite account for 621's tenacity and vectors though..
@@theeldenconspiracy9451Bear in mind, while amounts of Coral present on Rubicon for Corporations are dissapointing, there are still presumably loads of smaller coral stores on Rubicon. The corps just don't care about such a trivial amount, but that can still be used to augment gen 4's, seeing as in the trailer it really didn't seem like there was too much coral being used. Being an older gen seems to lead to less efficiency than those of newer gens, (despite the deceptive lack of skill from newer gens in-game) so that combined with the apparent lower cost would make it an attractive option for independents. As well as Iguazu who no-one seems to give a crap about...
It's important to remember these are future-style Corporations with abilities far beyond the likes of Google or Disney even, finding a few scraps of coral no-one wants would be trivial for them.
@@Ixarus6713 The thing I find extremely odd is that the mercs that work for the big corps, the Vespers and the Redguns, by and large, do not have coral augmentation.
Whereas the main character, who is talked about like a throwaway dog, has the magical coral augmentation which allows them to communicate with Ayer.
Maybe it's just plot contrivance? Seems backwards.
theres also some soft implication (at least i think so) that walter and 621 were around for the fires of ibis, tho the story trailer seemingly taking place “just before” the game may disprove that
There is some circumstantial evidence that stasis technology exists in a data log from the Honest Brute mission where some Coyote grunts talk about how Carla appears too young to be a Cinder, and also with how Carla seems to have simply appeared a few years before the game started with an army of genius engineers and no information at all about what she did in the 47 years between the Fires of Ibis and her joining RaD. My personal assumption is that Carla and her engineers were all a part of the RRI before the fires and they went to sleep afterwards to wait and see if the Coral would come back. My reasoning here is that both the other confirmed Cinders, Dolmayan and Sulla are both called old or aging (I'm pretty sure Sulla is the "aging mercenary" since he's working with ALLMIND's invisible MTs and he's specifically highlighted as a Release Project candidate in the briefing for the O'Keefe mission) while Carla is specifically called out as being suspiciously young.
That would mean 621 was probably made before the fires and shipped out and put on ice to be sold off world, allowing them to escape the fires, and then never got bought as augmentations advanced and no one wanted a 4th gen anymore.
As for Iguazu, I think he was made very recently after the Coral was rediscovered, since he was forced to get augmentation because of gambling debts and in the Depths II fight, he calls the doctor who augmented him a "quack" neither of which jive with what we know about the RRI, the reason he has old augments is just down to the fact that new gens are proprietary corpo tech while old gen methods could be scavenged theoretically by anyone on Rubicon, and due to the shady circumstances of his augmentations, I doubt whoever gave them to him were rubbing shoulders with the likes of Arquebus.
You'd think if cryo-sleep technology existed it would be mentioned somewhere. I'll check that datalog.
About Iguazu, there's a datalog that mentions both him and Volta have been in the Redguns for seven years. So, either coral was rediscovered about seven years ago, or Iguazu was augmented with leftover coral, or he's very old.
Iguazu doesn't have a designation, (that we know of) so that could mean he was augmented 'off-the-books' somehow.
My contention about Sulla, (who also sounds young despite being 60+), is that he seems to be guarding the watchpoint. This is very different from what the datalog about the aging mercenary proposes. If he is working with Allmind, then that means he wouldn't want to get into contact with Ayre, because Allmind doesn't like coral-symbiosis. From the alternate Xylem mission, Allmind says "Coral-symbiosis is nothing more than the exploitation of coral" Allmind doesn't want symbiosis, she basically wants Coral to overtake the universe independent of humanity.
This is why Dolmayan attacks you, because he's seen visions of coral spreading through the universe and killing humanity as a result of coral release.
This is why I don't think Sulla would be looking for Ayre, he would want to STOP someone else from finding Ayre.
But then, who left the log at the watchpoint? Possibly someone involved with the RLF or RAD, some faction who wants coral-symbiosis.
I kind of assumed this as well. Or there's some form of anti-aging tech involved. Otherwise Carla is bare minimum 60 years old. I assume something similar happened to Walter when he got sent to Jupiter
i kinda liken the augmentation leads to slow aging like how cybernetic implants work in cyberpunk where people live over 100 years and age very slowly.
havent seen another else point it out but the time given until the fires of ibis, 47 hours 2 minutes 16 seconds, in nagai’s 4th log, 2 minutes 16 seconds is dangerously close to 621. C4 is 3 and 4, added equals 7. 47216.
great video, just one nitpick, when iguazu says that freak actually did it I think he’s referring to rusty actually landing the shot on the iceworm with the railgun
This is the weirdest take I've seen.
Occam's Razor:
You're a grandpa with machine like reflexes OR you were cryogenically frozen OR the augmentations you got were old for accessability reasons.
I like possibility 3 bc its pretty clear Walter is running a rag tag operation
I've heard the 'old implants' theory before.
C4-621 is a designation, which suggests that they were augmented in an official capacity, i.e. not a black market operation and not after the operation had long been obsolete.
621 is one of 'gen four's lot' as Sulla puts it, which suggests he was part of the initial run of generation 4 augmented humans. Considering the current generation is number 10, this represents a gap in time the game never tries to explain.
Therefore, Occam's razor would dictate your character is an elderly person.
You just think it's a weird take because you don't want to consider you might be playing as an elderly person :)
Sulla is honestly the best piece of supporting data for how augmentation mixes with aging. He's first gen, which killed most of the people undergoing it. Yet he's still a good AC pilot, with plenty of ability. As noted in the Rubiconian Research Institute's parts, ACs move fast enough that an unaugmented human would struggle to pilot one, let alone handle the stress it would place on the human body. Based on Sulla's performance, it's obvious that augmenting keeps human reflexes high, even into old age. It seems reasonable that many of the Gen 4 pilots are very old.
I mean that’s better than being an off brand 40K dreadnaught, aka being a mangled corpse barely being held alive via advanced life support
Considering Gen 4 augmentation operates using coral to interface with machines, namely the armored cores, the only times 621 could have reasonably augmented is shortly before the events of the game, or before the fires of ibis and were put into stasis in order to keep 621 alive and to maintain the coral in their body. Ayre making contact also explains why over the course of the game, 621 is hinted at being more lively and is able to move enough to enter jailbreak, because Ayre is literally powering 621's augmentations
@@xSinisterSixx very beginning of the game when 621 is put into loader 4. There is a computer notification about your coral neural interface activating. There are a few logs mentioning how gens 1-4 used coral too, which is why only gens 1-4 can make contact
@@Christopher-eq1rn Oh my bad. Yeah I realized that then deleted my comment before I seen the reply
Personally I'm under the belief that 621 can be anything we want to think they are because we don't know much about them but I think 621 at some point after getting their augmentations was cryogenically frozen input into like a storage inventory for a Time before being adopted by Handler Walter
Reason being the story trailer for the game has 621 in a body bag of some kind and was going through some kind of process getting prepped for Handler Walter what the scientists in the trailer pacifically saying "you're helping me cleaning out my inventory" which means this scientist person had 621 for quite some time
Also in that trailer you can see Coral being pumped into 621 during the trailer suggesting that Coral is still out there but maybe in small quantities outside of Rubicon what's my also explained how iguazu was able to get Gen 4 augmentation granted it's also suggested that his augmentations we're not done properly which is why he couldn't really make contact like 621 can and said all he heard was painful static
Also Iguazu brains up a comment after doing the damn mission where you meet him for the first time saying " you were the only warm body they can find " which can support the idea that cryogenic freezing is a practice
One last thing because I know this comment is quite long but another character who seems to defy the laws of Aging is Carla that the game suggest that she looks much younger than she supposed to be since she was a adult around the time the fires of Ibis happened I believe she also went under cryogenic freezing for a Time which is why she looks younger than she supposed to
Again I'm not saying 621 is Young because we don't know how old they were before being cryogenically frozen if that is what happened but that could help the idea of 621 being young despite being technically quite old
Even if there was a form of cryostasis, just like Aang from Last Airbender, your body is still aging. 621 would still, regardless, be an elderly person despite their appearance.
This is an interesting point most sci-fi creators don't take into account :)
But I was thinking more along the lines of something seen in most sci-fi media to explain how a character experienced a time-skip of some kind.
If 621 or other characters experienced something like that, wouldn't some lore talk about it? Just saying.
not neccesarily, you could have been in stasis a long time and be physically young, or could have undergone an older process cuz black market.
A society that can build ACs and 1.5km tall mining rigs should definitely be able to slow down aging considerably, if not halt it entirely.
621 being Walters last resort makes sense imo since I always kinda wondered why we ,for the most part, were operating alone. Seeing the trailers implied to me that we maybe working alongside other hounds of Walter npcs or actual players through coop but we are his last man. He didn’t purchase a batch he just threw us in and seemed weirdly confident in our abilities considering there were HUNDREDS of hounds before us so there must be something that sets us apart and I think that might have something to do with 617. 617 I believe survived the events in the trailers and went on to become Raven. Whenever we encounter the og Raven they don’t say a word and I believe he was a gen 4 just like us and his ac is even similar to our beginning set up but modified. Awesome vid and thx for reading 👍
What's interesting is that the members of Branch, including Raven's operator, all know C4-621's designation, while pretty much all the other corporate mercs all call you Raven and never mention your generation or designation.
@@theeldenconspiracy9451Given that they are "hacktivists" It wouldn't be surprising if just like ALLMIND they can gather data easily or tap in like Carla does for her arena entry
I too believe Nightfall Raven is 617.
I want to believe that older gen augmentations are still practiced in black markets because it may be more accessible, faster and cheaper than newer generations. It would explain how Iguazu, someone who had accrued massive debt, was able to receive gen 4 augmentation; because it was the cheapest and safest option.
I’d say it’s up in the air about how old 621 is but I like to think that the operator’s line of “This one is… functional but don’t expect much more.” Is more about how 621 didn’t show that much promise in regards to combat ability initially. As opposed to 617, who is mentioned several times specifically by other characters in game. It seems 617 was an exceptionally good pilot. Maybe the augmentation exhausts 621 more than other recipients but is still passable to operate an AC, like a kid who gets sick very often trying to participate consistently in a sports team.
As for 621’s past, I’d like to think that certain humans are raised essentially as cattle to pilot ACs. It would be much more efficient if there was a farm of humans that Walter could get pilots from as opposed to him recruiting people. If the numbering system is anything to go by, he’s gone through six-hundred and twenty other pilots before the player character. It goes in hand with the dehumanization aspect since 621 is effectively a slave. Well, they’re paid in COAM currency so I suppose you could say in court that they aren’t legally a slave but it’s not a good argument, just another aspect of even more dehumanizing of AC pilots.
Logs indicate that the earlier generations of augmentation(including gen four), required coral.
Considering this augmentation would be taking place well after the fires of Ibis, I doubt a procedure requiring coral would be "cheaper" or more "accessible"
Carla must also be really old too as she was there during the time the fires of ibus happened.
i always wondered how she sounds so young.
Idk, watching the kind of world that AC6 is, and the fact that at the start of the game 621 "awakes" makes me think that eithee augmentation can be done in very young persons or 621 could indeed be a piece of tuna in a refrigerator
Another thing, the older augmentation surgery is still available since is cheaper than newer ones.
How do we know it's still available? And why would the older gen augmentation be cheaper when it requires Coral, the macguffin resource that is the entire reason the corps are on Rubicon?
The economics are out of whack.
I mean you would think they would mention your age if that was true it's more believable for their to be cryo sleep especially since in the beginning of the game Walter says wake up the hound .....plus it's a sci fy but still a pretty cool concept
I just want to say that this is a cool theory and i havent heard anyone else make it!
Thanks!
What happened to the best intro on the tube, you know the one with georgio etc?
Zulla in the JP dub sounds considerably older than his English VA.
The augmentation slow down his aging 70 year old, who looks like a 20-year-old or a lolly 😂
So the fan art of 621 isn’t false completely
Old men get it done I guess. As a current gen soldier, I'd be scared to go against a WWII soldier with a garand, or a even Vietnam soldier with an old school M16. Experience means everything.