As an adult I find it super fun to learn things that were hard for me when I was younger. The topics are not hard at all! They were just taught by bad teachers and without real motivation!
School ruined my love for math. Not because I had bad teachers, but because I had to spend so much time and energy on other subjects that I wasn't even interested in.
As a former teacher, who taught for over 20 years, I can attest that we are only part of the equation. Because even GOOD teachers cannot turn bad students into good ones! Teaching has been, and will ALWAYS be, a partnership between teacher and student! It HAS to be a joint effort! Otherwise it will fail! And just to add... I've pretty much taught myself EVERYTHING I know! Indeed, the BEST teacher you can EVER have... Is Yourself! So long as you can read... You can learn... End Of! The rest... Is totally down... To You!
Learning mathematics as a programmer is huge leverage. You can already tie up the concepts you're learning into functions which the computer can remember and complete reliably every time the functions are called. The computer does the memorization. You do the process of understanding the mathematics and translating it into something to be held within your digital toolbox.
Interesting points all round... But remember, there are links between coding, at least on a DEEP level, and abstract Mathematics like Logic. Indeed one could argue that computers are *predicated* on Logic, which is a branch of Mathematics. Many pioneers of the modern computer age had a background in Maths... Including Alan Turing, arguably the father of modern theoretical computer science, who indeed *was* a Mathematician. However, as always, the picture, especially these days, isn't so black and white, because there is a multitude of disciplines that go into making a modern computer game. For low level work however, especially in 3D graphics, sound and AI etc, having a background in Maths definitely doesn't hurt!
+kilroy washere Sure dude (I did not make the video, I just recorded that snippet). Check out Handmade Hero for more Casey and super quality education hero.handmadedev.org/jace/guide/
I would say that just knowing how to setup a higher level math problem is very related to programming in general. It is related to debugging also since you have to know where you went wrong during math setup, for example in setting up a dynamics/statics system. The rote/meticulous stuff is basically irrelevant in higher level math, but the wiring of the brain is almost directly related. Good at "real" math (not arithmetic) -> good at programming. Bad at math -> maybe not the best programmer, but can still be decent.
If you are a good software developer then that means - you can find the necessary information and learn new technologies, algorithms, concepts quite fast. Which means, you can also learn the necessary areas in math by using just logical thinking, you can figure out many topics in math. Also, I'm a strong believer that you should learn only the things that you will be actually be using..., same as it is for software development, the same applies for math.
Superficially, you are right. If you want to make new things (as in new algorithms and technologies) you are wrong. Some fields of mathematics require different kinds of logic (fuzzy, informal, formal, and so on). Then there are numerical problems the computer brings to the surface. I wonder about the percentage of programmers who actually know how to compare floating point numbers correctly.
I’m taking a math minor and honestly I think that what he says about the field of math is absolutely true. . . Until you finish linear algebra. Before then (calc, linear algebra, etc) we have a really good grasp so it’s mostly rote learning. After though you begin to get more abstract and it becomes much more akin to programming. It really is quite different from hs maths
I love this. It's what I'm about ATM, I use Khan Academy to learn what I saw no point in learning while in school, just because I'm interested in more low level programming (engines and stuff). I think it's totally doable, but I'm aware it will take a while.
I think the ones who are good at math or just love it, they are really becoming good at in programming sooner. In the essence of programming, we solve problems. In math, we have this idea in center, too.
All the math i remember from high school was just about learning how to solve a problem. And then doing it over and over again with different values. There was little to no situations where you had to come up with a way to find a solution (which is what you do in programming)
I don’t find that as true. Math in K-12 is not problem solving. I used alternative method to solve a problem and correctly but than got all zeros on them even when final answer was right. I told her it was faster/easier to do it like that and was told it’s not right way.
Learning maths and similar things is just different. Many teachers are not telling this "secret" and think you have to be born for it, but this is how it is: - You feel pain while doing maths? This discourage you and you think you are not good for it - false! - How about doing pushups? Isn't it painful to do 30 pushups? Maybe you cannot even do. But brain is muscle and your mental pain shows it is growing. ^^This is all there is to the secret. Just do not be discouraged if it feel mentally tiresome or painful to understand things. If you would not feel that pain you would not progress - it is sign of your muscle becoming better at it! Most people give up and think math is like literature instead and you just need to learn as if learning poetry but its more like a muscle training for the brain.
Nothing to be scared about math. I never liked it, got always bad degrees in high school and I though it's just very hard for me. Now I'm graduated CS and learning math on my own form coursera courses (free audit) and entire math it's way easier than ever be. There is also Khan Academy and many more free/paid sources. For all people who stopped at "I'm just bad in math" and want to change it instead of asking "Do I need math?" - Just try to understand why you are bad, maybe just your teacher was bad or maybe his/her way of explaining was bad? Maybe teacher wasn't explaining anything and just want you to use formulas without even understanding it? Mayber you just need deep explaination from scratch like me? Probability that you are bad at math, because just you are is nearly impossible.
Loved your talk! I’m a Computer Science grad with around 2 years software experience (8 months intern). I personally am interested in giving game dev a try, but I’ve been scared of the math because I didn’t have my life together when I took my math courses in college (barely passed and didn’t really learn the material). I’ve dabbled in trying to teach myself math in the same style you’ve described, but just haven’t disciplined myself to stick with it yet. Whether or not I decide to go hard after it, I wanted to say your story and pep talk were very inspirational since I’m essentially in the same boat!
Thank you sir for this video.. im no good at math and this somehow inspired me to take computer science course. I hope I may finish the course. God bless you sir!
In my experience, the closest things to programming in math are algorihtmics and system modeling. Maths in school is not problem solving. It's learning stuff by heart and having a rigorous routine. In my experience, people who have precise routines are bad at having multiple modes of thought for the same issue and are bad programmers because they tend to just learn one way of constructing a program and repeating that ad nauseam. When you have a hammer like that, every problem is a thumb.
I know people who claim were pretty bad at math in school (no good teacher or not motivated back then to pay attention) that ended up being really good programmers, building their own 3D engines or other related code, and that's where they learned and understood the math they didn't learn at school.
As someone who majored in maths, I honestly think most higher maths (minus statistics) is useless for most programmers. Anything more than highschool linear algebra will probably go to waste.
Although I disagree with the idea that there's no relation between people being good at maths and programming. Most mathematicians I know picked up programming super easily.
What I have been told by from a professor is that the reason calculus is required for a CS degree is because its a good way to filter for people who will be capable of finishing the degree. I will ask though, what about discrete math?
@@AJ213Probablydamn, this brings bad memories. I hated discrete math ( and math in general ) back in college. If only someone told me back then it's a foundation of animation and pathfinding and many other things.........
I am pretty sure this misses the mark completely. People dont think math is important for programming beacuse of pointer arithmetic of because some of the graphical matrix math in graphics engines can be complicated, it is because it is the same thing. Programming languages are just a specific types of mathematical language. To program you absolutely need to meticulously do things without making mistakes. No compiler/runtime I have ever encountered did not care if your code was filled errors and misspellings. 1 error in 10 million lines will make you program fail. I think where vexe might be confused and trying to force out incontinent ideas to try to justify his experience, is it is possible to be a lazy bored, math student that gets failing grades, and a excelling programming students with straight A. Because how much effort you put in also matters. Because, yes, you probably wont use any mathematical equations that you wre ever told to memorize in any math class in programming. But saying they are mostly unrelated is like saying someone incapable of ever learning to program in Java should just try C#. Sure, C# does not depend on java language knowledge, but that is not the point.
Are the owner of this channel,i found your handmade hero channel and wanted to ask a question but comment was turned off. Is there a way to download the source code for the entire game and all the videos as a single batch. Do u sell the videos via media other than UA-cam cuz downloading the entire collection is tedious n expensive
just be honest and say "no" no, you cannot be someone who is naturally bad at math and be a very good programmer. you can't even be decent really. programming involves lots of quantitative reasoning, spatial visualization, etc (the kind of skills that make you good at math) however 1. you don't actually have to know a lot of math to be a good programmer, but you almost certainly have to be naturally pretty good at it 2. I've met a lot of programmers who don't think of themselves as being good at math. they are, though, when you actually ask them to do quantitative reasoning. usually their low math confidence comes from a childhood of being completely surrounded by people who are even better at it
No one is naturally good at anything. There are a lot more factors that are involved when it comes to why someone is bad at math. I think you can have the same level of rational ability to be a good programmer, but fail to apply that to math still.
Based. Too much lying so people hear what they want to hear. The most notable programmers are good at mathematics, and know computer science, and how the hardware works.
Kinda like a corset for his wrists or something like that. I guess it's to prevent the carpal tunnel syndrome. I don't remember exactly, he mentioned it in one of Handmade Hero streams.
As an adult I find it super fun to learn things that were hard for me when I was younger. The topics are not hard at all! They were just taught by bad teachers and without real motivation!
@Andai School was terrible for me as well. Now I love learning!
100%
School ruined my love for math. Not because I had bad teachers, but because I had to spend so much time and energy on other subjects that I wasn't even interested in.
As a former teacher, who taught for over 20 years, I can attest that we are only part of the equation. Because even GOOD teachers cannot turn bad students into good ones! Teaching has been, and will ALWAYS be, a partnership between teacher and student! It HAS to be a joint effort! Otherwise it will fail!
And just to add... I've pretty much taught myself EVERYTHING I know! Indeed, the BEST teacher you can EVER have... Is Yourself!
So long as you can read... You can learn... End Of! The rest... Is totally down... To You!
Learning mathematics as a programmer is huge leverage. You can already tie up the concepts you're learning into functions which the computer can remember and complete reliably every time the functions are called. The computer does the memorization. You do the process of understanding the mathematics and translating it into something to be held within your digital toolbox.
Interesting points all round... But remember, there are links between coding, at least on a DEEP level, and abstract Mathematics like Logic.
Indeed one could argue that computers are *predicated* on Logic, which is a branch of Mathematics.
Many pioneers of the modern computer age had a background in Maths... Including Alan Turing, arguably the father of modern theoretical computer science, who indeed *was* a Mathematician.
However, as always, the picture, especially these days, isn't so black and white, because there is a multitude of disciplines that go into making a modern computer game.
For low level work however, especially in 3D graphics, sound and AI etc, having a background in Maths definitely doesn't hurt!
Sir, I want to thank you for making this video. You have helped me today.
+kilroy washere Sure dude (I did not make the video, I just recorded that snippet). Check out Handmade Hero for more Casey and super quality education hero.handmadedev.org/jace/guide/
I would say that just knowing how to setup a higher level math problem is very related to programming in general. It is related to debugging also since you have to know where you went wrong during math setup, for example in setting up a dynamics/statics system. The rote/meticulous stuff is basically irrelevant in higher level math, but the wiring of the brain is almost directly related. Good at "real" math (not arithmetic) -> good at programming. Bad at math -> maybe not the best programmer, but can still be decent.
If you are a good software developer then that means - you can find the necessary information and learn new technologies, algorithms, concepts quite fast. Which means, you can also learn the necessary areas in math by using just logical thinking, you can figure out many topics in math. Also, I'm a strong believer that you should learn only the things that you will be actually be using..., same as it is for software development, the same applies for math.
Superficially, you are right. If you want to make new things (as in new algorithms and technologies) you are wrong. Some fields of mathematics require different kinds of logic (fuzzy, informal, formal, and so on). Then there are numerical problems the computer brings to the surface. I wonder about the percentage of programmers who actually know how to compare floating point numbers correctly.
I’m taking a math minor and honestly I think that what he says about the field of math is absolutely true. . . Until you finish linear algebra. Before then (calc, linear algebra, etc) we have a really good grasp so it’s mostly rote learning. After though you begin to get more abstract and it becomes much more akin to programming. It really is quite different from hs maths
I love this. It's what I'm about ATM, I use Khan Academy to learn what I saw no point in learning while in school, just because I'm interested in more low level programming (engines and stuff). I think it's totally doable, but I'm aware it will take a while.
How is it going now?
Mehmet Akyüz He gave up, lazy people never get anywhere
@@sava1300 l m a o
@@sava1300 Well, at least I'm still studying math, I'll get somewhere I suppose :)
I think the ones who are good at math or just love it, they are really becoming good at in programming sooner. In the essence of programming, we solve problems. In math, we have this idea in center, too.
All the math i remember from high school was just about learning how to solve a problem. And then doing it over and over again with different values. There was little to no situations where you had to come up with a way to find a solution (which is what you do in programming)
I don’t find that as true. Math in K-12 is not problem solving. I used alternative method to solve a problem and correctly but than got all zeros on them even when final answer was right. I told her it was faster/easier to do it like that and was told it’s not right way.
Best answer to this question I found, TY good sir.
Learning maths and similar things is just different. Many teachers are not telling this "secret" and think you have to be born for it, but this is how it is:
- You feel pain while doing maths? This discourage you and you think you are not good for it - false!
- How about doing pushups? Isn't it painful to do 30 pushups? Maybe you cannot even do. But brain is muscle and your mental pain shows it is growing.
^^This is all there is to the secret. Just do not be discouraged if it feel mentally tiresome or painful to understand things. If you would not feel that pain you would not progress - it is sign of your muscle becoming better at it! Most people give up and think math is like literature instead and you just need to learn as if learning poetry but its more like a muscle training for the brain.
The brain is NOT a muscle.
Nothing to be scared about math. I never liked it, got always bad degrees in high school and I though it's just very hard for me. Now I'm graduated CS and learning math on my own form coursera courses (free audit) and entire math it's way easier than ever be. There is also Khan Academy and many more free/paid sources. For all people who stopped at "I'm just bad in math" and want to change it instead of asking "Do I need math?" - Just try to understand why you are bad, maybe just your teacher was bad or maybe his/her way of explaining was bad? Maybe teacher wasn't explaining anything and just want you to use formulas without even understanding it? Mayber you just need deep explaination from scratch like me? Probability that you are bad at math, because just you are is nearly impossible.
Loved your talk! I’m a Computer Science grad with around 2 years software experience (8 months intern).
I personally am interested in giving game dev a try, but I’ve been scared of the math because I didn’t have my life together when I took my math courses in college (barely passed and didn’t really learn the material).
I’ve dabbled in trying to teach myself math in the same style you’ve described, but just haven’t disciplined myself to stick with it yet.
Whether or not I decide to go hard after it, I wanted to say your story and pep talk were very inspirational since I’m essentially in the same boat!
Thank you sir for this video.. im no good at math and this somehow inspired me to take computer science course. I hope I may finish the course. God bless you sir!
In my experience, the closest things to programming in math are algorihtmics and system modeling. Maths in school is not problem solving. It's learning stuff by heart and having a rigorous routine. In my experience, people who have precise routines are bad at having multiple modes of thought for the same issue and are bad programmers because they tend to just learn one way of constructing a program and repeating that ad nauseam. When you have a hammer like that, every problem is a thumb.
Look at dwarf fortress. It is the best example for a "crude" 2d game that is entirely build up on math 😂😂
I know people who claim were pretty bad at math in school (no good teacher or not motivated back then to pay attention) that ended up being really good programmers, building their own 3D engines or other related code, and that's where they learned and understood the math they didn't learn at school.
Perfect advice!
I've been learning matrix and 2d cartesian coordinate system at school, but i understand it at adult, since i learn how to do game development
As someone who majored in maths, I honestly think most higher maths (minus statistics) is useless for most programmers. Anything more than highschool linear algebra will probably go to waste.
Although I disagree with the idea that there's no relation between people being good at maths and programming. Most mathematicians I know picked up programming super easily.
What I have been told by from a professor is that the reason calculus is required for a CS degree is because its a good way to filter for people who will be capable of finishing the degree. I will ask though, what about discrete math?
@@AJ213Probablydamn, this brings bad memories.
I hated discrete math ( and math in general ) back in college.
If only someone told me back then it's a foundation of animation and pathfinding and many other things.........
Lockhart's lament
8:15 They are called Computer Algebra Systems
I am pretty sure this misses the mark completely. People dont think math is important for programming beacuse of pointer arithmetic of because some of the graphical matrix math in graphics engines can be complicated, it is because it is the same thing. Programming languages are just a specific types of mathematical language. To program you absolutely need to meticulously do things without making mistakes. No compiler/runtime I have ever encountered did not care if your code was filled errors and misspellings. 1 error in 10 million lines will make you program fail.
I think where vexe might be confused and trying to force out incontinent ideas to try to justify his experience, is it is possible to be a lazy bored, math student that gets failing grades, and a excelling programming students with straight A. Because how much effort you put in also matters.
Because, yes, you probably wont use any mathematical equations that you wre ever told to memorize in any math class in programming. But saying they are mostly unrelated is like saying someone incapable of ever learning to program in Java should just try C#. Sure, C# does not depend on java language knowledge, but that is not the point.
Well it's only one data point but I'm ass at math and ass at programming
No no no no! Never believe others!
Are the owner of this channel,i found your handmade hero channel and wanted to ask a question but comment was turned off. Is there a way to download the source code for the entire game and all the videos as a single batch. Do u sell the videos via media other than UA-cam cuz downloading the entire collection is tedious n expensive
I'm not Casey, you can preorder the game to get the entire source code, not sure about a video archive download but everything is on handmadehero.org
3d gfx yes 2d no. logic more important
to me its a moot point. how is, say, lambda calculus not math?
Programming is theoretical a watered down version of mathematics, but I still struggle with math even after years of programming
Not watered down, hyper-specialized field of mathematics.
GNU Octave
Numpy
just be honest and say "no"
no, you cannot be someone who is naturally bad at math and be a very good programmer. you can't even be decent really. programming involves lots of quantitative reasoning, spatial visualization, etc (the kind of skills that make you good at math)
however
1. you don't actually have to know a lot of math to be a good programmer, but you almost certainly have to be naturally pretty good at it
2. I've met a lot of programmers who don't think of themselves as being good at math. they are, though, when you actually ask them to do quantitative reasoning. usually their low math confidence comes from a childhood of being completely surrounded by people who are even better at it
No one is naturally good at anything. There are a lot more factors that are involved when it comes to why someone is bad at math. I think you can have the same level of rational ability to be a good programmer, but fail to apply that to math still.
Based. Too much lying so people hear what they want to hear. The most notable programmers are good at mathematics, and know computer science, and how the hardware works.
What is he wearing on his hands
Kinda like a corset for his wrists or something like that. I guess it's to prevent the carpal tunnel syndrome.
I don't remember exactly, he mentioned it in one of Handmade Hero streams.
Cool, I love meth
Wrong video you meant to look up chemistry sir.
@@CJBDTW1923 This made me drool my day.