Acendans forest makes no sense. First of all building that trench system would take a lot of effort. Also the design makes little sense because the mess of trenches means once you get in you could defeat the defenders with flamers and grenades effectively. Also why are both teams equal.
@@Cutepanda1943TO make things fair I guess (Last question) I mean If Antares brought like more than hundred men while Aquila just give out 5 to defend it will be some sort of a dummy vs noobs gameplay
For Blackton, that villiage never was a goal, it was simply where the two armies first met. I do agree with your trench arguments but they mainly do that for gameplay reasons. Id say the forest trench map wasn’t worth the usual 3-4 thousand dead for medical supplies and artillery, and Route 23 was a planned offensive, every other way is surrounded by thick forest that prevents armor getting through, and by now Antares likely needs time to recover its troops before any new major offensive. Plenty of IRL examples of route 23 happen IRL too, and in Route 23 the infantry work with the armor, the armor providing (not very good) covering fire and blowing up some defenses and enemy tanks, while the infantry paves the way for Antaren armor to drive deeper. Route 23 also has air support, unseen until this point in game. This map was more or less a gamble to end the war as soon as possible
@@MrMereScratch According to Kelson Village's Lore, they were told to stay and protect the village. A reason I can think of is because given Cetus lost large parts of land due to the Chemical Attacks, they're delaying enemy forces in sporadic resistance to somewhat slow the enemy before better plans and reinforcements arrive. After all, you can't always be kept pushing back. The trenches in the map are also pretty rudimentary and not very deep, indicating that they never really had a chance to properly build defences or it was rear or back defences. Which might be indicative of the lacking manpower the Cetus forces in the battle had. Finally, it does not seem like Cetus particularly has many major cities within the area of strategic importance, this was a nation priding itself over it's Navy and exploration. So they may have more important towns/cities situated closer to coastal regions. (My theory.) Now for Capri Valley, apart from gameplay reasons, it may just be because due to the stalemate during the time of this battle, they more or less had some discussions to distance from the other? It's probably a temporary declaration though before command got impatient with the stalemate of the war. Considering the area has seen some damage, it may have been an area that has regularly been re-captured and attacked. The awkward positioning may in fact be due to the urgency of building trenches given how lacking the Cetans Army was. Though I can't answer for why it's pretty small in width. However, I feel like Monus Plains is just an odd one out. No form of existing destruction to indicate previous battles but it's pretty fortified with those wire-gates and rudimentary trenches. It's pretty contrasting considering the Antareans caught Cetus by surprise and were capturing pretty quickly. Now to be fair for Ascendus Forest, I think it's a reserve trench and not meant to be fought in, which may explain why Antares has their armoured cars in a parked position at their end. The reason why it's wide may be due to those on-going fires and they more or less wanted more ground which couldn't be burnt or spread by those fires. Route 23 from the Antares side can simply be summarised to their attitude, their idea is to be more offensive than defensive. To probably support their news about their territorial gains, which is what the Emperor was wishing for. (Expansionist like mindset.) HOWEVER, I think they'll learn their mistakes when fighting the next few campaigns. Grusea and those other countries close to Aquila. They are heavily mountainous, freezing and rugged. Infantry warfare is different here and would be particularly damaging to them. I also say this because, this is again making an assumption from the lore. During these campaigns, they had very slow progress and were in fact frustrated on that. Which is why, it would explain why the lore also states they won said mountainous campaigns with Heavy Bombers that bombarded the heavily defended Grusean Troops? (I don't know the country in question but it was mentioned in lore Heavy Bombers were made around the same time.)
More things to note for me personally is how we see instances of armored cars being used as breakthrough vehicles as if they are tanks. When in reality they probably have less than an inch of armor making them vulnerable to rifle rounds and have them be easily stuck in off-road terrain. This is seen in Coastal Battery Q, Mons Planus and Route 23. In reality, armored cars during this time are either tasked with transporting high value military personnel or reconnaissance.
Well here’s the thing, the timeline in tech dosnt really match up. The first tanks were invented in our timeline in 1916, and (doing this from memory) the first real tanks arrive in centaura in the final battles of the Cetan war (I’m pretty sure there’s on on the train) tanks is our time,one we’re mostly used to try and break through lines when they were first deployed. Your point about armored cars is probably true but remember, this was both nations in desperation to break the enemy, so they would probably use anything they have, and the armored cars would be one of the first to be sent out.
@@Captain_potatArmored cars have existed long before tanks have entered service yet armies always knew they couldn’t handle small arms fire and artillery hence why the entente never deployed them to breakthrough lines despite it being arguably cheaper to do so. Their just simply not good for the role.
I’m pretty sure for blackton, it was one of the most valued towns due to its mines which both the corvuns and the cetans needed. The cetans to mine iron, and the corvuns for the coal industry. Because Cetus took over the mines, Corvus’ coal industry suffered sending them into an economic collapse. I dunno though not really a tactical genius.
It’s important to note non of the battles in Centaura (game) are actually major events, taking over Blackton in a way makes sense as it’s part of South Corvus lands and the whole Second South Corvus War and the Cetan Theatre was for Corvus to retake the South Corvus area. It’s also still one of the first places in the region to be met with combat.
Ascendens Forest could potentially make sense because well maybe the original detachment got wiped out and there’s a new garrison moving to it after both sides abandoned it i guess? Although it seems a bit lacking in sense because you could just station troops there incase the Aquilans push your frontlines back.
In route 23, I understand what you are saying. In the lore, General Archer was criticized for his bullhead style of attack in the Aquilan campaign , which is sending men straight into a fortified position and hope it works. For Ascendens forest, maybe the Aquilan soldiers are caught by surprise and need to quickly move.
And General archer never got « honorably discharged » or anything? Other generals didn’t took advantage of his probably low popularity to get him his position? If the answer is ‘’he’s the best option we have’’ they could very well hire foreign military adviser or try to convince other nations to do so (wouldn’t be too hard considering in real life geopolitics for the most part in history had a « balance of power « where each country ensured nobody got too powerful so they wouldn’t have troubles getting foreign actors looking towards sabotaging said ennemies)
Dude, that’s flawed logic, Devs can’t just use the lore as a cover up for bad game design, “oh but in the lore the battle was criticized for being fought from a foolish position” no that’s just bad game design
If someone else said this already, then extra reminder: None of the battles are very pivotal to the wars. It was intended that the maps were not major so that the result of the war remained the same. So, winning as the Cetus marines won't cause a major change. In fact, it is explicitly said (if I recall correctly) that only a few portions of the navy landed. The end result is already that they failed their mission. Your success (as the marines) was shadowed by the overall strategic failure. Another counterargument surrounding places with minor objectives for major investments into, is the frontline. Inconsequential places might become the point of contention between two armies. That, or I'm wrong.
Also, for maps with trenches, if I recall correctly, armies in WW1 rushed in to occupy trenches after engineers completed trenchworks. Additionally, it's not an ongoing battle, I think.
the EM landings we see at whitemouth were only a small portion of the landings, as the devs stated there were other, larger landings with capital ships
This is war it’s highly erratic and spontaneous, let me take the battle of Gettysburg to help prove it. The battle of Gettysburg was fought from july1-3 1863 when Ap hills corps stumbled across a cavalry unit under John Buford in the small town of Gettysburg, Gettysburg played no pivotal role in the campaign until that point, it was just a small town that lee had orders be taken for the small depot there and it ended up being the biggest and bloodiest battle in American history.
While Yes, war is imposed chaos, it's exactly the most well organized and communicated force, or at least, The LEAST disorganized force that allwyas wins, it's only recently that you kids have grown the idea that war is like call of duty and you don't stick to your lead while gunning stuff down like Rambo
the biggest? probably yeah. bloodiest, no although it was probably pretty close. Antietam still holds the bloodiest title because it was just a sheer massacre
@@slayermcrx7519 Everyone knows that Gettysburg was the bloodiest battle on the North American continent. Antietam wasn't the bloodiest battle. Bloodiest SINGLE DAY battle.
My Opinion is for WHY you don't spawn into trenches is because you'd be like Antares on Mons Planus and get near to capturing a Cetan trench their just going to spawn immediately and gun you down. Its probably more or less for gameplay and not for a Aneurysm.
@@Yourlocalwordrobe There is nothing more to elaborate? The first spawn is inside the trenches - as that is where the soldiers would realistically be - any any spawn afterwards is in the current in-game places. That is to say, far behind the trenches.
Roland’s Prairie’s is one of the many fortresses in the Ring of Fire, it’s impossible to attack between the forts because of the howitzers and forests, artillery isn’t used and is out of the question because of the valuable artillery positions stationed there that could be exploited. Lastly, it’s has a similar resemblance to the Battle of Verdun. It could all just be my opinion though, anyone may share their thoughts.
With Kelson Village, I argue neither side wanted it taken. Corvus' goal was to continue its offensive and seize as much ground as possible in order to break the stalemate, and Cetus' goal was to hold their ground. Cetan soldiers had been stationed in Kelson Village, and likely happened to be in the way of the Corvun offensive. 400 soldiers on each side is also not that many, considering the fact both sides probably had more than a million troops. The creator of Centaura has also stated in the discord that no battles in Centaura are major battles.
@@tauempire1793 in roland prairie we play as the 3rd wave of antareans troops trying to siege the fortress, if we lose, its not so out of the question if Antares just sent another wave some time later, same with Talona, its just a matter of attrition until Aquila doesnt have enough forces to repel Antares.
Explanation 1 : resources. Explanation 2 : chlorine gas was probably added during the battle. other than that no importance other than a skirmish where the 2 sides happen to meet. 3: trenches cannot work their intended purpose at steep elevation. trenches also have some form of cover (plank boards) from artillery. other than that, makes sense.
By the way, Route 23 is VERY strategic; Route 23 leads straight towards Talona, which is one of Aquila’s major cities. Securing Route 23 was for their supply chains, and capturing Talona would allow them to have a supply hub in enemy territory.
@@allenrosales9738 Talona isn't the capital, if anything it's probably the 2nd biggest city. Don't really know where you got the idea of it being a capital from.
Tbf centaura uses many ww1 tactics so going head on into a position like that isn’t too outta the question. Also remember that the battle is taking place like not even 600-700 yards from the actual city and the last objective point on the map is literally on the city border limit.
FR, and then when people say the artillery isn’t balanced the glazer fans just say “ohh but that’s to show the true horrors of war” no. That’s just bad game design. So as with any other gameplay loop in this overrated game
@@julymonarchy7341 I’ll start with the map design. It’s the worst I’ve seen in a long time. Back when it was those first 3 maps Centaura was my favorite game and I was so excited for the updates. And then the update came with the new maps and it just wasn’t fun anymore because of how badly the maps were designed. Mons Planus for example, like it was fun for the first few times playing but the way it’s structured and the paths the map encourages you to take, it just becomes a slow grind that’s more of a nuisance then fun, it creates stalemates and not even the fun type of stalemates, which Is why I think it’s the worst map. Literally most players agree the older maps were way better. And the game design is horrible. Artillery literally only exists to artificially inflate the death count, you look at the death count of an average game, 2000 or so. But 70% of those 2000 deaths aren’t even from real players, they are from artillery. So really, there are only maybe 500 real kills. And the worst part, artillery doesn’t even serve a tactical purpose, it doesn’t help your team and damage the other team at all, it’s just a badly implemented map wipe feature with an artillery label slapped on it, it literally exists only to make the death count higher then it really is. And then when somebody actually criticizes the game, people say “no dude it’s not bad game design it’s a feature to show the horrors of war” no bro, I don’t think the gameplay consisting of mindlessly holding W at an objective for 30 seconds because that’s the average lifespan is fun.
@@maurology chill bruh,why are you so aggressive? Calm down a bit,man. Anyways,i do agree with you that artillery is useless most of the time and mons planus is basically designed to create stalemates
Well, it is meant to be a prequel to DEAD AHEAD. Made after Noobic Sea. And Capri valley is the oldest map. Made to be just a place holder (I think) back in the days of Gridlock. Plus, there mostly working on dead now. Plus theres a chance that Grid lock was going to be a test for atoll. Which is very, very chaotic.
I want Atoll to be added back, I know Centaura takes place during the Centauran Wars but it would be fun to have land battles that go on during Dead Ahead, as Atoll was originally scrapped because Centaura was based on ground combat.
@@loadingscreentipguy some people shit on it, but I feel like it’s an alright mode, better than Stronghold because you don’t have much to defend the bastions and Antares basically just kamikaze’s the hell out of them.
@@ThePawsketeer Way too early, but to see the 1875 Antarean-Aquillian War, 1886 Southern Corvun War or 1888 Riaan Civil War would be great as a next game. We have a c.1940s-50s style combat game, a 1900s-10s game and to have a latter 19th century one would be awesome
Blacktown is the frist battle were two armis met,it was a coldmine, reason for the war, and Kelson Village was a holding point for Cetus, they have already lost much territory so they would like to stop the Corvun at th villages befor ethey got to the big cities.
Honestly I find the argument of the city not being significant enough to warrant pouring loads of resources into rather invalid. The ongoing war in Ukraine is a perfect example of this. Bakhmut had little strategic value, and still both Russia and Ukraine poured tens of thousands of men into it, culminating in the second longest active battle in history (second only to Verdun), and at LEAST 40k deaths, the deadliest battle of the war (to my knowledge). The battle was purely for glory on both sides, it simply had no value beyond that. Another example is the tiny village of Robotyne on the southern front, it had less than 200 population before the war began, and still it was the main offensive point during last summer's Ukrainian offensive, of which fighting in the village lasted around 3 months, also with obscene casualty numbers. There's even a Russian counteroffensive ongoing in what remains of the village, for little reason more than deducting Ukraine's already minuscule gains during its previous offensive. There are plenty more examples from other wars, such as Stalingrad, Verdun, and so on. So to sum it up, Cetus most likely had a no-step-back mentality when it came to the war, as territorial losses would show their weakness, ultimately explaining why they put so much into defending such small settlements. I'm not exactly an expert on Centauran lore, but that's just my theory. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Yeah that's a probable answer Propaganda is quite a powerful tool, though not strategically important now, but Mons Planus, Blackton, and maybe the forest have cultural and/or historical influences (Verdun like you mentioned is one of that) forces the countries to put a lot of manpower to those specific strategically insignificant targets to keep morale high for the soldiers so they can keep fighting
@@Kartez228 Stalingrad really wasn't that strategically important. The Germans could have attacked to cut off the Caucasus further south, say, at Astrakhan, but they went for Stalingrad because they new that if they took the city named after the leader of the Soviet Union, it would be a huge morale blow.
Bakhmut has much strategic value, just like Robotyne or any other village within the vast steppes of eastern Ukraine. There is little to no natural cover there or any true millitary objectives, that's why villages, towns and cities are fought over with tooth and nail. Not only that, Bakhmut opened the way for Russia and its allies further west. Stalingrad was a major supply and industrial hub for the Soviet Union, alongside with being the SECOND most populous city of the USSR at the time. Verdun was supposed to be a trap for the French. The Germans attempted to draw the French into mindless suicidal attacks to recapture the city and the lands in its close vacinity, thus sustaining high casualties and tipping the balance in Berlin's favor. Kelson's importance is miniscule, there is enough natural cover (forestry) around it. However, in the case of Blackton it solely depends on how the *surrounding* area looks like; is it densely populated? How close is the other nearest boomtown?
Blud this is actually logical. Like in real life wise too, Blackton was a waste of manpower on both sides. Kelson could actually somehow destroy like a quarter of Cetus's military. Cetus is known for being undermanned and seriously it would be a massacre. For Capri there are two possible reasons 1. One of the side probably made unfinished trenches and were forced to retreat 2. They were abandoned long ago -Mons planus is alright -For Ascandes I 100% agree -Route 23? Antareans are just stupid But hey a game is a game
For Route 23, Antares was planned to have an engineer class with engineer trucks to disable defensive positions. Unfortunately, due to time constraints they were never finished. I'm not too sure if they were making an actual class for the engineer but for the to do list, Engineer trucks were planned to be spawned.
@@epapuelvalve3250 Rolands Prairie is one of the most fun maps on both sides while Route 23 (the map with the worst strategic sense) is probably the least fun on attack
What I think is that sense Cetus has lots of men at Blackton, Corvus would try send enough manpower to match Cetus. And Cetus probably placed all those men there as a possible standby location where they can be shipped out where needed when needed. And if the town would be under attack, there would be more than enough men left to defend. But what they didn't expect was for Corvus to bring enough men for a real fight. As for the stalemate map, I could only think that both sides decided to pull back and regroup due to relentless artillery strikes from both sides then they both just happen to launch an offensive at the exact same time, artillery and all.
Ah yes Mons Planus. You may think that the resources are the main battle reason, but no. This is a rescue mission. Because you will always here in chat: „PROTECT SHAUN THE SHEEP!“ Apparently, this meme went arround since 2 years, bur I didn’t know that, and my friends and I had a blast pretending to save Shaun
@@ashton2283 Technically, as far as I know, there are two other devs alongside several community contributors (providing helmets, webbing, and other meshes).
My opinion on the kelson village and blackton part is that, corvus just wanted to recapture their lost territories so they didnt care whether the town or village they are advancing to is strategic or not.
i think the dev himself confirmed that the battles are all obsecure in the universe. so the people who die there wont be remembered aside from the 2 paragraph wiki page on the dead ahead/centaura universe wiki
Hot take, but I really like the design of Mon’s Planus and it absolutely makes sense lore-wise why it occurred. Mons Planus (adjunct with Roland’s Prairie) was the initial invasion of the Aquilan countryside and subsequent “Ring of Fire” defense system. The trenches built here are very narrow and crudely built with lumber, pointing towards a clearly short-timed maneuver by both sides. Flanked by the thick, harsh pine forests of Aquila it’s no wonder Antares needed to use the farm of Mons Planus to access the artery road of Route 23. My best assumption is that the belligerents and defenders saw each other from the flanking hills, dug down, and eventually moved forward into the farm. This makes the most sense because the initial dig-ins are in-front of large convoy lots that host transport trucks and armor. The artillery gun dugouts are also crude and made up on smaller machine guns and sandbag protectants. Outside of lore, I like the way the map is structured. Sure, it can be an absolute pain to get through and many matches have been recorded in the HOURS mark - but that’s the most reflective thing about it! WW1 was a war of inches, and it was grueling, gruesome, and ghastly. I always look forward to a good fight on Mons Planus!
An Idea I had for trench maps was they extended the trenches beyond the playable boundary to give a deeper feeling of a stalemate. A game called Verdun does this by having the trenches either caved in or Blocked by barbed wire
I have a theory that the reason it was depicted more brutal then it was is that the gameplay is from a veteran telling his grandkids about the centauran war and that grandpa was so horrified by the war that all he could know about the war was that lots of them died
MrMereScratch the devs of Centaura have made some changes, such as reduce the spawn numbers of Kelson village to 250 per team and that the vehicles on Route 23 is comprised of more heavily armored vehicles.
Blackton is probably the armies meeting together and the reason for such huge amounts of numbers of troops invested there now is to stop one of the main invasion force and if Cetus won then my guess is they would turn the town into a fort until they aquire the numbers necessary to maybe to do coubter attacks and there's the Monus planus which was made like that for the sake of the player's experience now Kelson village was probably a village where a hige number of cetan entrenched themselves and Corvus decided to use the gas to make the battle more simple
@@slendygamer1231 That why i think cetus is superior if they weren't that imcompetent and used the navy manpower to help the army manpower cetus wouldn't have lost
coming back to this video since it was updated recently, route 23 is still a suicide mission but they removed armored cars, as they should have cause they aren’t breakthrough vehicles
in 1:29 . There is actually the reason for trenches being straight is because its the first time Cetus and Corvus actually used trenches on a wide scale, if you go uphill in the area near the forests of Battery Q you can see a small jagged trench but the one in Capri Valley was made in mind to act as a spacious, multi-use, low-cost solution as mentioned in the Capri Valley page with "Trench systems were built as they were proven to be the best defenses that could be cheaply set up. Trench systems were built as they were proven to be the best defenses that could be cheaply set up. These trenches doubled as anti-vehicle ditches, being dug wide - it also gave troops more space as opposed to the cramped trench designs of the early-war period (ear-war being the one seen in Battery Q.)" Overall this is a good video :)
Blackton could just be a skirmish, or simply a route Cetan soldiers would take to intercept Corvun advances, Kelson village also could be the case, as seen with the roads spanning the map, where it could be used to transport vital supplies to the front lines, Mons Planus' large open field could be used to set up artillery pieces, the trench map's dont see their soldiers occupy their trenches, probably because of a tactical retreat, like in Ascendant forest, where toxic ash from the fires could give Aquilan soldiers harder times to breathe, and or suffocate completely, the Antareans took Route 23 as their counteroffensive into Talona, as it simply is the best option for their armored vehicles and tanks to go through, it would be much better to take an open road and sacrifice their vehicles, than to spend weeks chopping down trees to clear paths for their tank, which could open up an Aquilan offensive
To be fair alot of other people have said their thoughts but my thoughts was the Cetus army lacks...some sense. Their army had lots of supplies apparently but lacked manpower in conparrison to their navy and their marines, which okay fair enough can work. You'd think in order to deal with manpower issues they'd use their marines more and more along the coast (not just those Marine detatchments that decided to help out the army and go awol from navy command) and commit to drafts for their army in order to make up for this especially when Antares invades and threatens the Empire's existance. It would be a good plot point of how Navy-Army rivalries and the infleunce of the navy made it so that alot of errors that were fatal as this did happen irl were made but we have yet to see this reflected on lore.
The thing is, if you use strategy like actually you could end a game. I had a Capri Valley game last 6:06, with 527 casualties. Cetus Victory because we said, “Hey why don’t we attack after the arty strikes?”
One unrealistic thing is the fact that Cetus never conscripts people which is something every government does when in desperate situations and I’m sure Cetus has plenty of soldiers. Also why doesn’t Cetus have the marines fight on land like they were useless so putting them on land might’ve helped the the fight. Also why would Cetus not even consider conscription like they could’ve just held off the attacks and either slow down the enemy or possibly win
Here is what I think (I may get some stuff wrong): Blackton: It was a really strategic town it provided for a lot of the Corvun economy when it was seized in 1886 the Corvus economy suffered greatly so it would be vital for the Corvuns to capture to improve their economy. For Cetus it would also be vital to capture since it provided for a lot of the Corvun economy if the Cetans held it they could dig in and let the Corvun economy collapse. Kelson Village: I believe it was most likely a test of the gas or it was a small skirmish during a larger offensive. Capri Valley and Mons Planus: I agree with you I think the dev did it for gameplay. Acendence Forest: The Antares must have moved faster than the Aquilans expected so they probably found out when it was too late and couldn't occupy the whole trench. Route 23: Again I agree with you I think the dev did it for gameplay. Battery Q and Rolands Prairie: Yes, I agree with you.
I really think they should add chlorine gas that players can control. Like in WW1, chlorine gas were set off, but sometimes the wind blows it back into friendly position, mbe wind could also be added as an addition to controlable chlorine gas? 🔥
@@bg1052 It is, but… Do be warned that when searching for lore, stay away from the Reddit and the Discord server. I’ve distanced myself from it for good reason: some pretty messed up lore and community stuff has happened. I’ve only heard rumors, but they’re terrifying.
So the maps basically were Corvus commits warcrime in coal mine town CIS Mira commits friendly fire Trench Warfare 1 Corvus commits warcrime chemically Antares appears (Trench warfare 2) Failed D-day landing Third attempt on Maginot line Trench warfare but night How… Bonus: Antares -commits warcrime- takes a tour in Aquila city Conclusion Cetus invests too much stats on naval power Corvus hires criminals to help the country No one invades Antares because they got invaded by them first Aquila thought Roland could clutch the war
I feel like most of these battles are insignificant battles compared to the larger scope of things, and if we are taking into account that they are using WW1 type tactics, 3k to 6k deaths for one small village or farm doesn't do any damage to either country PHYSICALLY. My second point is that we all take these battles at face value, a waste of "so many men" for a small and "insignificant" piece of land. If we say that these numbers are, in fact, huge losses (which imo they aren't), *all of these battles are fought purely for morale, glory, and propaganda.* Because let's face it, the populous of each nation involved at this point is probably not so pleased with a brutal and bloody war waging on for seemingly nothing. The whole game is based on insignificance and "death over nothing". From a tired and restless soldiers pov (which is who we play as), you don't care about glory, you just want things to get done, you want the war done, so in the eyes of who we play as, these battles mean nothing if we don't gain some physical reward for winning them.
Another thing to do with manpower and resources is that yes in our world it seems like way too much but Forma is around 2x bigger so troop counts which would be seen as a lot in our world don’t really have as big of a deal in Forma
on the centaura wiki the population of forma is about the same as irl earth. some guy later calculated the land area and found out that there is actually less land on forma then on earth
That kinda seems like BS to me because if the population is the same the people on Forma just kinda don’t care that 150 odd million people are dead and can just recover in 3 years
The requests you have to make the maps "better" will make the matches take wayyyyyy longer and some players dont even hav etime to play as match as it already is, if the request you came up with became true, then the matches would take maybe an hour. And for the maps you thought was not making sense to fight for, then they actually are, Blackton is a miner town that mines coal and other resources and Kelson village is there for Corvus to push Cetus longer back and take back the land that Cetus took away from Corvus.
MAYBE JUST PUT A COUNTDOWN TIMER FOR THE MAX ROUND TIME? But no, people will keep saying “no the 45 minute round times and 2k of the 3k deaths being from artillery and the average life span being 30 seconds is to show the true horrors of war” dude. That’s just cover up’s for bad game design. I blame the people who voted in the dc server for the maps to go on until all objectives are done.
I would like to point out that similarly much deadlier battles over basically useless ground happened in the first world war. While i agree that trenches appear short thats mostly a gameplay limitation and you would most likely suspend your disbelief.
0:54 they wanted the coal and iron mines for there navy. 1:06 well thats your real "worthless battle" like the battle of the somme (1st and 2nd ones) 1:31 thats so the gameplay is fun. 1:39 thats not true. 1:59 thats again for gameplay. 2:16 AGAIN GAMEPLAY IS SUPOAED TO BE FUN. 2:37 hahahah antares 3:01 true. 3:30 YEA CUZ ITS SUSPOED TO BE FUN
For Whitemouth Estuary, I do agree with the Officers, they would try to Conserve Manpower, Equipment, and Ships, and try to Escape to Riaa or Columba, what the Exercutis Maris did was kinda Stupid, then again, they're Marines, "Brave and Foolish.", They Basically Did A Gallipoli. I mean, they would Probably be in their 30s, maybe late 40s if they're an Officer, by the Time the Antares Imperium tried to Invade Columba. But oh well. (Why did bro Forgor about Whitemouth Anyway) RECLAIM OUR HOMELANDDDDD 🗣🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥 Also, I believe the Final Aquilan Map (The Battle of Talona), will basically be a Stalingrad or Moscow moment, I Imagine the Imperium would Replace the Comical Amount Of Artillery With CAS. (Close Air Support, like Dive Bombing or Strafing Runs)
The conflict in Aquila started in 1912 so I don’t believe technology wise air support would really be used. The first bombers weren’t used until the Columban Campaign and dive bombers wouldn’t be a thing until about the Riaan, Tucanan, and Centarii campaigns. Maybe light fighter planes in the sky and light bombs, but not the type of Stalingrad you’d expect.
I was kinda confused by the lack of artillery in the whole Aquilan campaign. I guess in Roland’s Prairie there is useful artillery and ammunition in the Battery Liberius so it wasn’t bombed i saw from another comment and Talona makes sense because they stopped bombing it after they realized they were civilians but it’s odd how there were no artillery in Ascendes Forest or just the area surrounding it but mostly no bombings at Route 23. I have to guess that the Ascendes Forest wasn’t strategically important to strike with artillery since it was just a forest with a trench with both Aquilan and Antares soldiers but for Route 23 I don’t see why they couldn’t have bombed the bunkers and fortifications across the route. I guess the only other reason they didn’t bomb Route 23 was to not damage the road/path which would be used by tanks to get to Talona but it also doesn’t make sense that Aquila had no Field Guns when they were defending Route 23
The owner explicitly stated all maps in Centuara are relatively minor in the grander scheme of things. They are not battles that defined an entire campaign or turned the tide of battle. Even if a country was able to win on a certain map (or even all maps in a given campaign), Antares and her allies will still manage to conquer the entire country in lore.
@@NoshGilligan23 Seeing as the game up until now is based on WW1 combat, 3k to 6k deaths for one minor battle actually makes sense. Looking at the grander scope, each nation has over half a million on the front lines so losing that amount is not pivotal if we are looking through the lens of WW1 tactics. I'm sure for more pivotal battles that the game will never have (devs keep the gameplay to insignificant battles), the casualty rate is probably in the tens of thousands and dwarfs the battles that we actually play in. Im sure for future campaigns we will see shorter times and quicker battles with less casualties due to blitzkrieg probably being used as a doctrine later on. As for route 23, this was an insane gamble by the Antarean leadership to end the Aquilan war ASAP as atp both sides are in a stalemate. With Antares needing war support and supplies, they just said f*ck it and threw anything they could on route 23 and prayed it worked.
@@Teenhistory09 Because population is not scaled, troops have to be spread thin over the much larger area. Cetus manpower is mostly in naval and Corvus is much smaller so armies aren’t giant.
@@Teenhistory09 yep. on the forma size comparison google doc some guy calculated the land and found out that forma has less land than earth, on the wiki there is also the population count of forma
My opinion These maps are all minor battles, so the losing side would still have lost the war regardless of who won the engagement. Blackton and Kelson were just small villages that happened to have both sides meet there Capri and Mons Planus would have been destroyed by artillery Batteries Q and Liberius were indeed important places to capture Route 23 should have been bombarded by artillery Whitemouth was an act of desperation so really there shouldn't be much tactical stuff Talona itself should have been destroyed by now to artillery The strategy of the Antareans during the war was to use their naval superiority instead of trying to push through the mountains which was a good decision
I feel like I need to add on Blackton - While I agree it's not strategical much to attack a small town with a coal mine like that, you gotta keep in mind that the armies simply happened to meet while Corvus was retaking territory that Cetus annexed at one point. Kelson Village - I agree, it makes absolutely no sense, what's the point of sending men to an even smaller town than Blackton that has been already gassed? I mean the concept of fighting in a gassed town is original, I can't lie - But the execution and realism is absolutely terrible. Capri Valley & Mons Planus - Nothing to be said here, your explanation was on point. Ascendēns Forest - The Antares (or is it Antaraes?) were scorching Aquillan territory, and from a strategic standpoint - The trenches are FULL of resources from helmets and rifles to artillery shells, which would be extremely beneficial in future advances. Route 23 - It is really the only logical way to Talona as the majority of the Aquillan landscape is forests, that tanks would have no way of moving in. And the army simply would NEED the tanks since it's not like Aquilla has zero tanks. Everything else pretty much on point.
Kelson village seems to be just two armies stumbling upon each other by accident. The fact players usually get lost in the beginning and the fact that there's no map to show where you spawn means that it was canonically an unintended chaotic battle especially with the gas hindering vision (and officers can't even use their whistles to organize charges due to the required use of gas masks). I've seen players literally run away from the center of the map thinking they're charging into battle. That happened a lot during the initial phase of WW1 minus the gas part.
I see people making the counter argument that none of the battles are major enough to warrant lore implications, so here's my 2 cents on the issue. While yes, the scale of the maps we see (usually) justify it not being a major battle, I ultimately feel like it's a copout in order to "maintain canon" that Antares is ultimately victorious in their efforts to take over the continent. There are maps like Talona where they would have to be a major battle, going off what we know of the setting, or at least a smaller section of a bigger battle we focus on. TL;DR: I'm butthurt that we don't get any big battles for the sake of a single timeline over having in universe alt-history.
these battles, no matter which side wins them, do not impact the course of the war in any way. it still turns out the same. hence the strategic unimportance
Ehh most of the time, but I don't think capturing a coastal battery, breaching a major weak point in a defensive line or a major road hub nothing though
Except that for Antares, it's a war over conquest and control over the entire continent. For Corvus, it's about a war of reclaiming previously stolen territory that is desperately needed to fix the economic woes of your crime and poverty ridden nation. For everybody else it's about maintaining their very existence as a nation.
@@Sleve_McDichael1 I feel like the « they need this for their economy » plotline is stupid. If they were really struggling this bad why would they go to war, especially in the industrial warfare era where wars are expensive and typically not worth it.
If i'm Kalvin Tau i'd already give General Archer Dishonorable Discharge before Route 23 like bro's mind is just Throw in as much firepower and we win High risk low reward. Simply not worth it
imo capri valley it should start off with both teams in their respective trenches and corvus starts a massive artillery barrage towards the cetus trenches shortly after the match starts. corvan soldiers would then charge and hopefully claim at least 1 trench. then a little while later cetus fires their own barrage and it's one big back and fourth between artillery barrages and waves of infantry, instead of random small barrages and soldiers trickling into no mans land (which makes 0 sense)
I feel like Kelson Village and Blackton aren't important yes, but are just another area of the invading line, also they could be bigger cities, but then the game wouldn't run well.
just saying, you show Ursa at 0:21 but im pretty sure they werent there during the Centauran Wars, they were fighting Hydrus, Lepus, Canis and Orion in the Grease Wars and suffering from instability afterwards
The grease wars were late 1890s and ended around 1905, Centaura is years after that, And Ursa naval invaded Tucana and riaa in the 30's causing Tucana to fall quickly and Riaa to resort to desperate tactics like suicide bombs and human waves, but in the end tucana and riaa collapsed
@@Stravinghelp If you’re asking for advice: read a lot of military books, stories of veterans, study maps of battles, understand what each country is capable of. If you’re not asking a question: idk but don’t ask Antares
Moving away from the battles, in general the lore doesnt make sense. Like why didnt any countries on Centaura make pacts when it was clear Antares was trying to invade everyone after the fall of Aquila. Why did Cetus never use there navy or draw troops from it? So many silly flaws in the lore.
@@ag4ming662 I 100% agree. Seeing that Cetan land was close to territory of the entire Third Reich in 1942 (Russia, Norway, etc.), you would imagine that there would be a lot of resistance. But nope, post occupation is stupid easy for Antereas. In WWII, the Germans were often being undermined in a relative sense compared to their iron fist. The fact alone a country took over the world is so hard to wrap my head around.
This is due to decades of imperialism with many of the countries in Centaura being uninterested in forming alliances due to personal self-interests, as mentioned in the "World Lore" page of the wiki, titled "How was Antares able to conquer Centaura by themselves?".
(4 months late to the proverbial party, but whatever.) okay, to preface this, i have to clarify that i know centaura isn't intended to be a realistic scenario in the first place, it handwaves' (as in, takes the creative license and alters) aspects of reality and makes concessions to make things like gameplay properly fun, and the lore more impactful. with that said, i think it's some worth looking at exactly what those are and how they're wrong this video gets a few things about the lore wrong, but it's.. solid nontheless, i suppose. but i feel that this does not acknowledge a lot of the major handwaves that centaura makes. such as its portrayal of early armored vehicles and chlorine gas and how it overstates their decisiveness compared to how they actually were in reality. it isn't a problem that the video didn't cover these admittedly major conceits (alas finding material that covers such subject matter is very hard unless you're willing to put in the effort to do so) but it's definitely worth knowing at least. anyway, cheers. first video i've seen covering this subject.
Route 23 is eaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasssssy! especially for attacking team, just plan strategy before game and have a competent team, in this game, a bad team means a loss, a good team is a much better chance of victory
Its important to note that without iron for Cetus, there desire for a better Navy wont become a truth. And that the Corvun army needed the coal because coal = Electricity. In total, the Cetus are tempted to do whatever to reach there goal of exploring the sea. And will put as much defenses as they could to there new annexed city of Blackton.
@@Pupp3tfr funny thing is if you look up the translation of several east asian countries you can get pretty odd results oirat means forest people jurchen means real girls tufan empire means vomit fan empire and so on
If you think this is bad then check battalion wars 2 where there is a level where you must defend a palace and everything is wrong since the forces who must defend the said palace come from the beach where it's the SAME side where enemies come from and not enter the besieged palace from behind where it's more safe and the game thinks that putting replacing the enemy's flag with yours and taking the hq is securing an are when actually you must kill all soldiers and secure it by either holding the area or building defenses
I mean the only tactics they really had at that point was covered in the Centauren Lore, such as blmbardments, and Chemical warfare, and urban warfare. Alongside trench warfare the horrible tolls of it. I personally think that Centauras tactical perspective makes sense.
Classicmasternoob was careful for the playable maps to have no significant impact on the war itself in the lore. Even if one side wins it doesn't actually effect the canonical war much, say except for The Siege of Talona.
the Talona map i dont think will impact it as much, As it wont be a map the size of the entire city, only like a suburb of it, so either way, even if aquila wins that battle in the map, they'll most likely still end up either getting massacred or surrendering to the antareans in the other direction
why wouldn't any pf the countries form a coalition after antares invades aquila? their only justification is uniting centaura which is a big enough threat +they invaded cetus and don't seem like they will stop soon
@@Scober420 The NCA is formed between the remaining Centauran nations after Aquila falls. For whatever reason it is comically weak. The argument of “Imperialism estranging countries”, in my opinion is kind of weak. Psychologically, one of man’s greatest priorities is survival. Because Aquila and Cetus had fallen when standing alone, it would be clear that banding together strongly is the only chance of survival. Second, Antares takes around two decades to fight mountainous Columba but suffers no anti war protests. In WWI, French and British armies were mutineering after three years of trench warfare and Vietnam was absolutely riddled with interior unrest in the United States.
I personally think that most of Centaura lore is flawed in general. Like with Antares how they basically have plot armor for the whole story until the Forma War's and then they get the same treatment as Cetus. Cetus falling so quickly makes some but also no sense. Cetus is like the Poland of the Centaura universe, weak but patriotic. Being fueled on patriotism alone. However in game and in the lore they make it seem like Cetus is basically Libra status (having Napoleonic tech according to the lore by the 1910's. I could be thinking of a different nation here, and correct me if I'm wrong). You can't expect me to believe that Cetus who has basically the same amount of tech as Corvus and Antares falls within just 4 years. Now Cetus, it makes sense. But Aquila is a whole different story. You expect me to believe Aquila, of all the nations would lose it's war with Antares? They have patriotism, same hell almost better tech than Antares, already well prepared defenses, and the nickname for your army being the 'Iron Army' like, mate. At worst it would've been a stalemate, at best Aquila would've won and maybe lost small territory.
The antareans likely destroyed the morale of the aquilans by doing America's method in vietnam, Except 10 fold across all of aquila, in the official lore 40% Of Aquila's Forests and countryside were burned by the antareans
@@robowisanveithasung6022 funny thing is that you do not need to be a tech giant to win a war. ie finland nearly defeating the ussr during ww2 and iraq booting out both the uk and usa from their territory. it would have been more believable if riaa lost because they were kidnapping too many female soldiers from antares and fucking them instead of fighting because the khitans fell in a similar manner by demanding jurchen nobelwomen and losing their entire country because of that
I don't get it, the manpower thing is based on the amount of players. Canonically, tactics are WW1-like. To be fair, for WW1, it is pretty realistic. Keeping in mind of course, that even a "low" amount of manpower moght be bigger on Forman terms, as Forma is canonically much larger than Earth, leading to more people. Then again, I could be completely wrong.
@@MrMereScratch Oh. I did not know this. I don't really go too much in-depth with the lore but I assumed the higher population. Although, I do believe that the Forman population _should_ be bigger.
I had read somewhere that the trench warfare in ww1 is nothing like what we see in capri valley for example. They didn't blindly send one wave after another into the attack without success, but rather the opposite. They had captured the first trench line "relatively easily", but could not hold it because of a very fast counterattack by the rear lines. (I see this error, as far as it is one not only in this game) And please correct me, but are the trenches actually missing dugouts ? (I know it is a game)
@@mountenia5556 Yeah, a lot of people are under the impression that soldiers are blindly thrown into battle in larger than life combat. The trench networks were not isolated during WWI and went from alps to sea.
@@mountenia5556 Also yes, they are missing dugouts. I get that “there was little time”, but those trenches are massive. You’d think there would be some infrastructure so they can actually function.
I think you’re aware that the battles are not actually major events, and are for gameplay yes? Well the reasons why so many people die in such small villages is that it isn’t actually a lot. In our timeline 1000 people over a village may sound like a lot, but in Centaura there is over a billion people, and small villages will be good for any strategic standpoint since there are few cities. Why few cities? well that’s because everyone lives in the cities that already exist, and for those that don’t have alot of people, well, again strategics.
@@timwai3132idk man Cetus is literally a naval power, THE naval power of their world, Aquila is an economic powerhouse, as well as Vega, and Riaa is basically China
Antares is literally just the USA if it suddenly decided to invade it's neighbours, no one can really stop it. It's actually realistic Antares is winning every single war since they have new resources, strategy and manpower after every war they win in. They're afterwar rebuilding in conquered nations also means they don't deal with rebellions as much as they quickly restore infrastructure (this is also why there weren't any German or Japanese rebels after WW2, the Allies primarily the Americans quickly restored basic infastracture). Basically, it's actually plot breaking for Antares to be weak when it's literally just the USA.
for blacktown you do realize its a gold mine right i mean for gods sake the description is a IMPORTANT GOLD MINING TOWN not coal (im not trying to beef with u just saying it) for Kelson Village yeah i can get your point For the Trench maps its possibly because uhh idk its the only way for military vehicles to cross since im guessing the terrain is too mountainus and for mons planus you can clearly see the sheer ammount of forrests and not to mention the fact that the armored vehicles don't drive through trees unlike our era also i wonder how will our planet react when faced with the entirety of forma
im not well versed in Centaura lore but arent some of these early war stuff just like in real life id assume commanders still have that Napoleonic was mindset causing them to make tatical blunders thats my excuse for the small town maps
The problem is... The entire region of South Corvus is resource rich Blackton is probably not a massive contributor to that, since there is fiercer fighting on other towns during the start of the war
Have you... played Centaura? On route 23 its pretty much just a wait until Aquila loses, I have never seen a single game where Aquila wins route 23 (maybe because they're made to lose it).
@@Masteechief. I’ve played that map at least 30 times and Antares kept winning. That portion of the video was made also taking into account the Aquilan Artillery guns worked. Centaura is my second-most played Roblox game behind Rise of Nations.
@@MrMereScratch really? first time on the map when i played and aquila won easily, antares couldn't get through point c (me and some other dude were obliterating their vehicles with AT, that was so fun)
I dont bother these map designs and sense's (besides the artillery) but things bothers me that the weapons in description, Like cetus rifles desc:having a cheap texture and it have chance of jamming, but in gameplay you can fire this rusty crap over 100 rounds, with no problems Not same thing to antares/corvun their rifles is a direct upgrade having prevention jamming. Yet one of the soldiers decided to grab one of these cetus rifles over their new bolt action rifles, (Besides gameplay) i get it some of the soldiers like cetus actually stealing one of their opponents guns but their opponents stealing their guns as well, I mean think about it: imagine a Russian Pmc from tarkov decided to steal a poor made rifle from the scavenger over their high ergonomic ak, seems weird right? just my thoughts lol
Artworks credits go to:
www.youtube.com/@PoweringRusli
www.youtube.com/@ClassicMasterNoob
And photo credits go to the Centaura Fandom Wiki community.
Acendans forest makes no sense. First of all building that trench system would take a lot of effort. Also the design makes little sense because the mess of trenches means once you get in you could defeat the defenders with flamers and grenades effectively. Also why are both teams equal.
@@Cutepanda1943TO make things fair I guess (Last question)
I mean If Antares brought like more than hundred men while Aquila just give out 5 to defend it will be some sort of a dummy vs noobs gameplay
For Blackton, that villiage never was a goal, it was simply where the two armies first met. I do agree with your trench arguments but they mainly do that for gameplay reasons. Id say the forest trench map wasn’t worth the usual 3-4 thousand dead for medical supplies and artillery, and Route 23 was a planned offensive, every other way is surrounded by thick forest that prevents armor getting through, and by now Antares likely needs time to recover its troops before any new major offensive. Plenty of IRL examples of route 23 happen IRL too, and in Route 23 the infantry work with the armor, the armor providing (not very good) covering fire and blowing up some defenses and enemy tanks, while the infantry paves the way for Antaren armor to drive deeper. Route 23 also has air support, unseen until this point in game. This map was more or less a gamble to end the war as soon as possible
@@OrbitalKineticbombardemnt these are some good points
Yeah, I can see that. Nice points!
(Your username is also one of my favorite forms of weaponry :D)
@@MrMereScratch According to Kelson Village's Lore, they were told to stay and protect the village.
A reason I can think of is because given Cetus lost large parts of land due to the Chemical Attacks, they're delaying enemy forces in sporadic resistance to somewhat slow the enemy before better plans and reinforcements arrive. After all, you can't always be kept pushing back.
The trenches in the map are also pretty rudimentary and not very deep, indicating that they never really had a chance to properly build defences or it was rear or back defences. Which might be indicative of the lacking manpower the Cetus forces in the battle had.
Finally, it does not seem like Cetus particularly has many major cities within the area of strategic importance, this was a nation priding itself over it's Navy and exploration. So they may have more important towns/cities situated closer to coastal regions. (My theory.)
Now for Capri Valley, apart from gameplay reasons, it may just be because due to the stalemate during the time of this battle, they more or less had some discussions to distance from the other? It's probably a temporary declaration though before command got impatient with the stalemate of the war.
Considering the area has seen some damage, it may have been an area that has regularly been re-captured and attacked. The awkward positioning may in fact be due to the urgency of building trenches given how lacking the Cetans Army was. Though I can't answer for why it's pretty small in width.
However, I feel like Monus Plains is just an odd one out. No form of existing destruction to indicate previous battles but it's pretty fortified with those wire-gates and rudimentary trenches. It's pretty contrasting considering the Antareans caught Cetus by surprise and were capturing pretty quickly.
Now to be fair for Ascendus Forest, I think it's a reserve trench and not meant to be fought in, which may explain why Antares has their armoured cars in a parked position at their end. The reason why it's wide may be due to those on-going fires and they more or less wanted more ground which couldn't be burnt or spread by those fires.
Route 23 from the Antares side can simply be summarised to their attitude, their idea is to be more offensive than defensive. To probably support their news about their territorial gains, which is what the Emperor was wishing for. (Expansionist like mindset.)
HOWEVER, I think they'll learn their mistakes when fighting the next few campaigns. Grusea and those other countries close to Aquila. They are heavily mountainous, freezing and rugged. Infantry warfare is different here and would be particularly damaging to them.
I also say this because, this is again making an assumption from the lore. During these campaigns, they had very slow progress and were in fact frustrated on that. Which is why, it would explain why the lore also states they won said mountainous campaigns with Heavy Bombers that bombarded the heavily defended Grusean Troops? (I don't know the country in question but it was mentioned in lore Heavy Bombers were made around the same time.)
Air support, those are strategic bombers that don't have visible Bomb. Either devs are lasy or players are not gonna notice.
Blackton wasn't the first place the armies met.
More things to note for me personally is how we see instances of armored cars being used as breakthrough vehicles as if they are tanks. When in reality they probably have less than an inch of armor making them vulnerable to rifle rounds and have them be easily stuck in off-road terrain. This is seen in Coastal Battery Q, Mons Planus and Route 23. In reality, armored cars during this time are either tasked with transporting high value military personnel or reconnaissance.
Yeah. I was playing Route 23 and knocked out 8 armored cars in one go while laughing about it with my friend. I totally agree with your point.
I agree but in Centaura we start seeing AT rifles from the Aquilan campaign onwards
Well here’s the thing, the timeline in tech dosnt really match up.
The first tanks were invented in our timeline in 1916, and (doing this from memory) the first real tanks arrive in centaura in the final battles of the Cetan war (I’m pretty sure there’s on on the train) tanks is our time,one we’re mostly used to try and break through lines when they were first deployed. Your point about armored cars is probably true but remember, this was both nations in desperation to break the enemy, so they would probably use anything they have, and the armored cars would be one of the first to be sent out.
@@Captain_potatArmored cars have existed long before tanks have entered service yet armies always knew they couldn’t handle small arms fire and artillery hence why the entente never deployed them to breakthrough lines despite it being arguably cheaper to do so. Their just simply not good for the role.
@@aungkyawmin6709 ik, but I also brought up the desperation factor of both armies using anything and everything to make a advancement
I’m pretty sure for blackton, it was one of the most valued towns due to its mines which both the corvuns and the cetans needed. The cetans to mine iron, and the corvuns for the coal industry. Because Cetus took over the mines, Corvus’ coal industry suffered sending them into an economic collapse. I dunno though not really a tactical genius.
@@Sisbrolife8183 Yeah, but there is a lot of troops committed to that little town haha.
@@MrMereScratch thats true
It’s important to note non of the battles in Centaura (game) are actually major events, taking over Blackton in a way makes sense as it’s part of South Corvus lands and the whole Second South Corvus War and the Cetan Theatre was for Corvus to retake the South Corvus area. It’s also still one of the first places in the region to be met with combat.
@@ThePawsketeer perhaps apart of a larger operation that was important yes, but not the individual town
Ascendens Forest could potentially make sense because well maybe the original detachment got wiped out and there’s a new garrison moving to it after both sides abandoned it i guess? Although it seems a bit lacking in sense because you could just station troops there incase the Aquilans push your frontlines back.
In route 23, I understand what you are saying. In the lore, General Archer was criticized for his bullhead style of attack in the Aquilan campaign , which is sending men straight into a fortified position and hope it works. For Ascendens forest, maybe the Aquilan soldiers are caught by surprise and need to quickly move.
And General archer never got « honorably discharged » or anything? Other generals didn’t took advantage of his probably low popularity to get him his position? If the answer is ‘’he’s the best option we have’’ they could very well hire foreign military adviser or try to convince other nations to do so (wouldn’t be too hard considering in real life geopolitics for the most part in history had a « balance of power « where each country ensured nobody got too powerful so they wouldn’t have troubles getting foreign actors looking towards sabotaging said ennemies)
@@centralhunter9169 I think Archer has too much plot armor. Lincoln burned through generals in the Civil War.
(I hate plot armor)
General Archer explaining how rushing into whats basically normandy 2x is a good idea:
@@Shiz_mc-grilz291 “Blood makes the gods happy!”
“I thought that was just the enemies’ blood.”
“…”
Dude, that’s flawed logic,
Devs can’t just use the lore as a cover up for bad game design, “oh but in the lore the battle was criticized for being fought from a foolish position” no that’s just bad game design
If someone else said this already, then extra reminder:
None of the battles are very pivotal to the wars. It was intended that the maps were not major so that the result of the war remained the same. So, winning as the Cetus marines won't cause a major change. In fact, it is explicitly said (if I recall correctly) that only a few portions of the navy landed. The end result is already that they failed their mission. Your success (as the marines) was shadowed by the overall strategic failure.
Another counterargument surrounding places with minor objectives for major investments into, is the frontline. Inconsequential places might become the point of contention between two armies. That, or I'm wrong.
Regardless, points in the video are correct and is very straightforward. Nice!
Also, for maps with trenches, if I recall correctly, armies in WW1 rushed in to occupy trenches after engineers completed trenchworks.
Additionally, it's not an ongoing battle, I think.
@@ethanton7074 Thank you!
the EM landings we see at whitemouth were only a small portion of the landings, as the devs stated there were other, larger landings with capital ships
yea like we saw in bakhmut
This is war it’s highly erratic and spontaneous, let me take the battle of Gettysburg to help prove it. The battle of Gettysburg was fought from july1-3 1863 when Ap hills corps stumbled across a cavalry unit under John Buford in the small town of Gettysburg, Gettysburg played no pivotal role in the campaign until that point, it was just a small town that lee had orders be taken for the small depot there and it ended up being the biggest and bloodiest battle in American history.
@@Rhett_Kierbow That’s interesting.
While Yes, war is imposed chaos, it's exactly the most well organized and communicated force, or at least, The LEAST disorganized force that allwyas wins, it's only recently that you kids have grown the idea that war is like call of duty and you don't stick to your lead while gunning stuff down like Rambo
the biggest? probably yeah. bloodiest, no although it was probably pretty close. Antietam still holds the bloodiest title because it was just a sheer massacre
@@slayermcrx7519 “Oh boy do I sure love standing shoulder to shoulder with cannons ahead. Sure hope only one of us dies this time…”
@@slayermcrx7519 Everyone knows that Gettysburg was the bloodiest battle on the North American continent. Antietam wasn't the bloodiest battle. Bloodiest SINGLE DAY battle.
My Opinion is for WHY you don't spawn into trenches is because you'd be like Antares on Mons Planus and get near to capturing a Cetan trench their just going to spawn immediately and gun you down.
Its probably more or less for gameplay and not for a Aneurysm.
fr
Or, hear me out here, the first spawn is in the trenches, then as the battle progresses, you spawn further back.
@@aname6794 Can you elaborate more
@@Yourlocalwordrobe There is nothing more to elaborate?
The first spawn is inside the trenches - as that is where the soldiers would realistically be - any any spawn afterwards is in the current in-game places. That is to say, far behind the trenches.
@@aname6794 now when you add more info it sounds like a idea worth of testing
Roland’s Prairie’s is one of the many fortresses in the Ring of Fire, it’s impossible to attack between the forts because of the howitzers and forests, artillery isn’t used and is out of the question because of the valuable artillery positions stationed there that could be exploited. Lastly, it’s has a similar resemblance to the Battle of Verdun. It could all just be my opinion though, anyone may share their thoughts.
@@RetroFacility That’s what I mentioned in the video! Glad to see someone else see it!
@@MrMereScratchno one talked about it so I mentioned it lol
Something tells me that Roland’s PIRARIE is something like the Maginot line, except it actually has been used
average day in the centauran continent
And Usea from Ace Combat
With Kelson Village, I argue neither side wanted it taken. Corvus' goal was to continue its offensive and seize as much ground as possible in order to break the stalemate, and Cetus' goal was to hold their ground. Cetan soldiers had been stationed in Kelson Village, and likely happened to be in the way of the Corvun offensive. 400 soldiers on each side is also not that many, considering the fact both sides probably had more than a million troops. The creator of Centaura has also stated in the discord that no battles in Centaura are major battles.
Well except Talona tbf as Talona is by far a major battle and the last true stronghold of Aquillan resistance when the capital fell.
@@tauempire1793 in roland prairie we play as the 3rd wave of antareans troops trying to siege the fortress, if we lose, its not so out of the question if Antares just sent another wave some time later, same with Talona, its just a matter of attrition until Aquila doesnt have enough forces to repel Antares.
Explanation 1 : resources.
Explanation 2 : chlorine gas was probably added during the battle. other than that no importance other than a skirmish where the 2 sides happen to meet.
3: trenches cannot work their intended purpose at steep elevation. trenches also have some form of cover (plank boards) from artillery.
other than that, makes sense.
By the way, Route 23 is VERY strategic; Route 23 leads straight towards Talona, which is one of Aquila’s major cities. Securing Route 23 was for their supply chains, and capturing Talona would allow them to have a supply hub in enemy territory.
Yeah but the way the attackers go about attacking Talona makes no sense
Indeed it is a big city, it's just the way they attempt to take over Route 23 and Talona in general is a very bad way of doing it
Talona isn’t just one of Aquila’s major city, it’s the Capital
@@allenrosales9738 Talona isn't the capital, if anything it's probably the 2nd biggest city.
Don't really know where you got the idea of it being a capital from.
Tbf centaura uses many ww1 tactics so going head on into a position like that isn’t too outta the question. Also remember that the battle is taking place like not even 600-700 yards from the actual city and the last objective point on the map is literally on the city border limit.
Me when i see 2k+ deaths on the screen because the artillery ai wasn't balanced enough for actually enjoyable gameplay:
FR, and then when people say the artillery isn’t balanced the glazer fans just say “ohh but that’s to show the true horrors of war” no. That’s just bad game design. So as with any other gameplay loop in this overrated game
@@maurology tell me how the game is overrated,what exactly is bad about it
@@julymonarchy7341 I’ll start with the map design. It’s the worst I’ve seen in a long time. Back when it was those first 3 maps Centaura was my favorite game and I was so excited for the updates. And then the update came with the new maps and it just wasn’t fun anymore because of how badly the maps were designed.
Mons Planus for example, like it was fun for the first few times playing but the way it’s structured and the paths the map encourages you to take, it just becomes a slow grind that’s more of a nuisance then fun, it creates stalemates and not even the fun type of stalemates, which Is why I think it’s the worst map. Literally most players agree the older maps were way better. And the game design is horrible. Artillery literally only exists to artificially inflate the death count, you look at the death count of an average game, 2000 or so. But 70% of those 2000 deaths aren’t even from real players, they are from artillery. So really, there are only maybe 500 real kills. And the worst part, artillery doesn’t even serve a tactical purpose, it doesn’t help your team and damage the other team at all, it’s just a badly implemented map wipe feature with an artillery label slapped on it, it literally exists only to make the death count higher then it really is. And then when somebody actually criticizes the game, people say “no dude it’s not bad game design it’s a feature to show the horrors of war” no bro, I don’t think the gameplay consisting of mindlessly holding W at an objective for 30 seconds because that’s the average lifespan is fun.
@@julymonarchy7341 and he asks me for my opinion, I give him my opinion and he doesn’t even reply. Classic
@@maurology chill bruh,why are you so aggressive? Calm down a bit,man. Anyways,i do agree with you that artillery is useless most of the time and mons planus is basically designed to create stalemates
Well, it is meant to be a prequel to DEAD AHEAD. Made after Noobic Sea. And Capri valley is the oldest map. Made to be just a place holder (I think) back in the days of Gridlock. Plus, there mostly working on dead now. Plus theres a chance that Grid lock was going to be a test for atoll. Which is very, very chaotic.
Also dead ahead is being revived.
I want Atoll to be added back, I know Centaura takes place during the Centauran Wars but it would be fun to have land battles that go on during Dead Ahead, as Atoll was originally scrapped because Centaura was based on ground combat.
@@ThePawsketeer It will most likely come back. It was my favorite mode.
@@loadingscreentipguy some people shit on it, but I feel like it’s an alright mode, better than Stronghold because you don’t have much to defend the bastions and Antares basically just kamikaze’s the hell out of them.
@@ThePawsketeer Way too early, but to see the 1875 Antarean-Aquillian War, 1886 Southern Corvun War or 1888 Riaan Civil War would be great as a next game. We have a c.1940s-50s style combat game, a 1900s-10s game and to have a latter 19th century one would be awesome
Blacktown is the frist battle were two armis met,it was a coldmine, reason for the war, and Kelson Village was a holding point for Cetus, they have already lost much territory so they would like to stop the Corvun at th villages befor ethey got to the big cities.
Honestly I find the argument of the city not being significant enough to warrant pouring loads of resources into rather invalid. The ongoing war in Ukraine is a perfect example of this.
Bakhmut had little strategic value, and still both Russia and Ukraine poured tens of thousands of men into it, culminating in the second longest active battle in history (second only to Verdun), and at LEAST 40k deaths, the deadliest battle of the war (to my knowledge). The battle was purely for glory on both sides, it simply had no value beyond that.
Another example is the tiny village of Robotyne on the southern front, it had less than 200 population before the war began, and still it was the main offensive point during last summer's Ukrainian offensive, of which fighting in the village lasted around 3 months, also with obscene casualty numbers. There's even a Russian counteroffensive ongoing in what remains of the village, for little reason more than deducting Ukraine's already minuscule gains during its previous offensive.
There are plenty more examples from other wars, such as Stalingrad, Verdun, and so on.
So to sum it up, Cetus most likely had a no-step-back mentality when it came to the war, as territorial losses would show their weakness, ultimately explaining why they put so much into defending such small settlements. I'm not exactly an expert on Centauran lore, but that's just my theory. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
@@cuberrt I am speechless. Thanks for your feedback!
Yeah that's a probable answer
Propaganda is quite a powerful tool, though not strategically important now, but Mons Planus, Blackton, and maybe the forest have cultural and/or historical influences (Verdun like you mentioned is one of that) forces the countries to put a lot of manpower to those specific strategically insignificant targets to keep morale high for the soldiers so they can keep fighting
What do you mean by Stalingrad?
@@Kartez228 Stalingrad really wasn't that strategically important. The Germans could have attacked to cut off the Caucasus further south, say, at Astrakhan, but they went for Stalingrad because they new that if they took the city named after the leader of the Soviet Union, it would be a huge morale blow.
Bakhmut has much strategic value, just like Robotyne or any other village within the vast steppes of eastern Ukraine. There is little to no natural cover there or any true millitary objectives, that's why villages, towns and cities are fought over with tooth and nail. Not only that, Bakhmut opened the way for Russia and its allies further west.
Stalingrad was a major supply and industrial hub for the Soviet Union, alongside with being the SECOND most populous city of the USSR at the time.
Verdun was supposed to be a trap for the French. The Germans attempted to draw the French into mindless suicidal attacks to recapture the city and the lands in its close vacinity, thus sustaining high casualties and tipping the balance in Berlin's favor.
Kelson's importance is miniscule, there is enough natural cover (forestry) around it. However, in the case of Blackton it solely depends on how the *surrounding* area looks like; is it densely populated? How close is the other nearest boomtown?
Blud this is actually logical. Like in real life wise too, Blackton was a waste of manpower on both sides. Kelson could actually somehow destroy like a quarter of Cetus's military. Cetus is known for being undermanned and seriously it would be a massacre. For Capri there are two possible reasons
1. One of the side probably made unfinished trenches and were forced to retreat
2. They were abandoned long ago
-Mons planus is alright
-For Ascandes I 100% agree
-Route 23? Antareans are just stupid
But hey a game is a game
Hey, Antarean stupidity on Talona is canon
@@RandomFurry07 REALLY? YES I CAN MOCK THEM FOR REAL!!!!
Those are just cover ups for bad game design
Antares generals have always been stupid rookies, Sending more men thinking they have more men than their bullets
Explains why Orion beat the living hell out of them
Are you questioning my strategic decisions?
@@KalvinTau Maybe… :)
@@MrMereScratch ):
For Route 23, Antares was planned to have an engineer class with engineer trucks to disable defensive positions. Unfortunately, due to time constraints they were never finished. I'm not too sure if they were making an actual class for the engineer but for the to do list, Engineer trucks were planned to be spawned.
I think that most of the errors in strategic logic is simply for the purposes of gameplay
@@Dallie502 Yeah, I had mentioned that in the video.
@@MrMereScratch often the maps that make more strategic sense are the least fun
@@epapuelvalve3250 Rolands Prairie is one of the most fun maps on both sides while Route 23 (the map with the worst strategic sense) is probably the least fun on attack
The reason Blackton has so much defensive because he was a main resource to powerlines
What I think is that sense Cetus has lots of men at Blackton, Corvus would try send enough manpower to match Cetus. And Cetus probably placed all those men there as a possible standby location where they can be shipped out where needed when needed. And if the town would be under attack, there would be more than enough men left to defend. But what they didn't expect was for Corvus to bring enough men for a real fight. As for the stalemate map, I could only think that both sides decided to pull back and regroup due to relentless artillery strikes from both sides then they both just happen to launch an offensive at the exact same time, artillery and all.
Ah yes Mons Planus.
You may think that the resources are the main battle reason, but no.
This is a rescue mission. Because you will always here in chat: „PROTECT SHAUN THE SHEEP!“
Apparently, this meme went arround since 2 years, bur I didn’t know that, and my friends and I had a blast pretending to save Shaun
The cetan marine corps landing map is great too IMO.
@@cashas6969 Yeah, especially as an Antares hiding in the boats >:)
@@MrMereScratchthe 6’6 Marine called Buck with a room temperature IQ looking at you:
Hes no military strategist, hes just a developer with a dream.
Note: this is a solo project.
@@ashton2283 Technically, as far as I know, there are two other devs alongside several community contributors (providing helmets, webbing, and other meshes).
this is not a solo project, they have like 5 extra developers
My opinion on the kelson village and blackton part is that, corvus just wanted to recapture their lost territories so they didnt care whether the town or village they are advancing to is strategic or not.
i think the dev himself confirmed that the battles are all obsecure in the universe. so the people who die there wont be remembered aside from the 2 paragraph wiki page on the dead ahead/centaura universe wiki
Hot take, but I really like the design of Mon’s Planus and it absolutely makes sense lore-wise why it occurred.
Mons Planus (adjunct with Roland’s Prairie) was the initial invasion of the Aquilan countryside and subsequent “Ring of Fire” defense system. The trenches built here are very narrow and crudely built with lumber, pointing towards a clearly short-timed maneuver by both sides. Flanked by the thick, harsh pine forests of Aquila it’s no wonder Antares needed to use the farm of Mons Planus to access the artery road of Route 23.
My best assumption is that the belligerents and defenders saw each other from the flanking hills, dug down, and eventually moved forward into the farm. This makes the most sense because the initial dig-ins are in-front of large convoy lots that host transport trucks and armor. The artillery gun dugouts are also crude and made up on smaller machine guns and sandbag protectants.
Outside of lore, I like the way the map is structured. Sure, it can be an absolute pain to get through and many matches have been recorded in the HOURS mark - but that’s the most reflective thing about it! WW1 was a war of inches, and it was grueling, gruesome, and ghastly.
I always look forward to a good fight on Mons Planus!
To be fair, Forma, the world where centaura takes place, is 2.3 times larger than earth, meaning they have much more disposable manpower.
An Idea I had for trench maps was they extended the trenches beyond the playable boundary to give a deeper feeling of a stalemate. A game called Verdun does this by having the trenches either caved in or Blocked by barbed wire
@@liamhernandez9891 I’ve several examples of that. It is a clever move.
I have a theory that the reason it was depicted more brutal then it was is that the gameplay is from a veteran telling his grandkids about the centauran war and that grandpa was so horrified by the war that all he could know about the war was that lots of them died
MrMereScratch the devs of Centaura have made some changes, such as reduce the spawn numbers of Kelson village to 250 per team and that the vehicles on Route 23 is comprised of more heavily armored vehicles.
@@AlphaDu-wp2nb Yes, I have played the update
Blackton is probably the armies meeting together and the reason for such huge amounts of numbers of troops invested there now is to stop one of the main invasion force and if Cetus won then my guess is they would turn the town into a fort until they aquire the numbers necessary to maybe to do coubter attacks and there's the Monus planus which was made like that for the sake of the player's experience now Kelson village was probably a village where a hige number of cetan entrenched themselves and Corvus decided to use the gas to make the battle more simple
I remember in the lore forma was bigger than earth 12 times so the population was double to alot of people and alot of those people are in centaura
@@nanominator.1893 I’m pretty sure Cetus had around 40 million people, which is less than Germany in WWII.
Its mostly water though
@@slendygamer1231 That why i think cetus is superior if they weren't that imcompetent and used the navy manpower to help the army manpower cetus wouldn't have lost
@@nanominator.1893 Yeah true
@@nanominator.1893I'm pretty sure communications between the navy and the army don't exist considering how much friendly fire there is from the navy💀
coming back to this video since it was updated recently, route 23 is still a suicide mission but they removed armored cars, as they should have cause they aren’t breakthrough vehicles
in 1:29 . There is actually the reason for trenches being straight is because its the first time Cetus and Corvus actually used trenches on a wide scale, if you go uphill in the area near the forests of Battery Q you can see a small jagged trench but the one in Capri Valley was made in mind to act as a spacious, multi-use, low-cost solution as mentioned in the Capri Valley page with
"Trench systems were built as they were proven to be the best defenses that could be cheaply set up. Trench systems were built as they were proven to be the best defenses that could be cheaply set up. These trenches doubled as anti-vehicle ditches, being dug wide - it also gave troops more space as opposed to the cramped trench designs of the early-war period (ear-war being the one seen in Battery Q.)"
Overall this is a good video :)
Kalvin tau watching aran fumble his good war and then fumble his empire
Blackton could just be a skirmish, or simply a route Cetan soldiers would take to intercept Corvun advances, Kelson village also could be the case, as seen with the roads spanning the map, where it could be used to transport vital supplies to the front lines, Mons Planus' large open field could be used to set up artillery pieces, the trench map's dont see their soldiers occupy their trenches, probably because of a tactical retreat, like in Ascendant forest, where toxic ash from the fires could give Aquilan soldiers harder times to breathe, and or suffocate completely, the Antareans took Route 23 as their counteroffensive into Talona, as it simply is the best option for their armored vehicles and tanks to go through, it would be much better to take an open road and sacrifice their vehicles, than to spend weeks chopping down trees to clear paths for their tank, which could open up an Aquilan offensive
To be fair alot of other people have said their thoughts but my thoughts was the Cetus army lacks...some sense.
Their army had lots of supplies apparently but lacked manpower in conparrison to their navy and their marines, which okay fair enough can work. You'd think in order to deal with manpower issues they'd use their marines more and more along the coast (not just those Marine detatchments that decided to help out the army and go awol from navy command) and commit to drafts for their army in order to make up for this especially when Antares invades and threatens the Empire's existance.
It would be a good plot point of how Navy-Army rivalries and the infleunce of the navy made it so that alot of errors that were fatal as this did happen irl were made but we have yet to see this reflected on lore.
The thing is, if you use strategy like actually you could end a game. I had a Capri Valley game last 6:06, with 527 casualties. Cetus Victory because we said, “Hey why don’t we attack after the arty strikes?”
Ngl the mg and the armored car in this game are way too op they have ww1 mg and they fire like 20mm shells
@@natus1 yup
"Hi Orion, fuck you," -Antares
One unrealistic thing is the fact that Cetus never conscripts people which is something every government does when in desperate situations and I’m sure Cetus has plenty of soldiers. Also why doesn’t Cetus have the marines fight on land like they were useless so putting them on land might’ve helped the the fight. Also why would Cetus not even consider conscription like they could’ve just held off the attacks and either slow down the enemy or possibly win
Here is what I think (I may get some stuff wrong):
Blackton: It was a really strategic town it provided for a lot of the Corvun economy when it was seized in 1886 the Corvus economy suffered greatly so it would be vital for the Corvuns to capture to improve their economy. For Cetus it would also be vital to capture since it provided for a lot of the Corvun economy if the Cetans held it they could dig in and let the Corvun economy collapse.
Kelson Village: I believe it was most likely a test of the gas or it was a small skirmish during a larger offensive.
Capri Valley and Mons Planus: I agree with you I think the dev did it for gameplay.
Acendence Forest: The Antares must have moved faster than the Aquilans expected so they probably found out when it was too late and couldn't occupy the whole trench.
Route 23: Again I agree with you I think the dev did it for gameplay.
Battery Q and Rolands Prairie: Yes, I agree with you.
All the battles according to the devs are minor battles so they dont have a major impact
@@ace74909talona say the otherwise, that city was the 2nd biggest city of Aquilla, and they got their supply from there
I really think they should add chlorine gas that players can control. Like in WW1, chlorine gas were set off, but sometimes the wind blows it back into friendly position, mbe wind could also be added as an addition to controlable chlorine gas? 🔥
Honestly had no idea this game was so in depth. I've only played it a few times. I might be more interested now
@@bg1052 It is, but… Do be warned that when searching for lore, stay away from the Reddit and the Discord server. I’ve distanced myself from it for good reason: some pretty messed up lore and community stuff has happened. I’ve only heard rumors, but they’re terrifying.
@@MrMereScratch Warning heeded
So the maps basically were
Corvus commits warcrime in coal mine town
CIS Mira commits friendly fire
Trench Warfare 1
Corvus commits warcrime chemically
Antares appears (Trench warfare 2)
Failed D-day landing
Third attempt on Maginot line
Trench warfare but night
How…
Bonus:
Antares -commits warcrime- takes a tour in Aquila city
Conclusion
Cetus invests too much stats on naval power
Corvus hires criminals to help the country
No one invades Antares because they got invaded by them first
Aquila thought Roland could clutch the war
I feel like most of these battles are insignificant battles compared to the larger scope of things, and if we are taking into account that they are using WW1 type tactics, 3k to 6k deaths for one small village or farm doesn't do any damage to either country PHYSICALLY.
My second point is that we all take these battles at face value, a waste of "so many men" for a small and "insignificant" piece of land.
If we say that these numbers are, in fact, huge losses (which imo they aren't), *all of these battles are fought purely for morale, glory, and propaganda.* Because let's face it, the populous of each nation involved at this point is probably not so pleased with a brutal and bloody war waging on for seemingly nothing.
The whole game is based on insignificance and "death over nothing". From a tired and restless soldiers pov (which is who we play as), you don't care about glory, you just want things to get done, you want the war done, so in the eyes of who we play as, these battles mean nothing if we don't gain some physical reward for winning them.
Another thing to do with manpower and resources is that yes in our world it seems like way too much but Forma is around 2x bigger so troop counts which would be seen as a lot in our world don’t really have as big of a deal in Forma
on the centaura wiki the population of forma is about the same as irl earth. some guy later calculated the land area and found out that there is actually less land on forma then on earth
That kinda seems like BS to me because if the population is the same the people on Forma just kinda don’t care that 150 odd million people are dead and can just recover in 3 years
The requests you have to make the maps "better" will make the matches take wayyyyyy longer and some players dont even hav etime to play as match as it already is, if the request you came up with became true, then the matches would take maybe an hour.
And for the maps you thought was not making sense to fight for, then they actually are, Blackton is a miner town that mines coal and other resources and Kelson village is there for Corvus to push Cetus longer back and take back the land that Cetus took away from Corvus.
MAYBE JUST PUT A COUNTDOWN TIMER FOR THE MAX ROUND TIME? But no, people will keep saying “no the 45 minute round times and 2k of the 3k deaths being from artillery and the average life span being 30 seconds is to show the true horrors of war” dude. That’s just cover up’s for bad game design. I blame the people who voted in the dc server for the maps to go on until all objectives are done.
@@maurology FR
Kalvin Tau: "WE HAVE MORE TANKS THAN THEIR BULLETS!"
I would like to point out that similarly much deadlier battles over basically useless ground happened in the first world war. While i agree that trenches appear short thats mostly a gameplay limitation and you would most likely suspend your disbelief.
0:54 they wanted the coal and iron mines for there navy. 1:06 well thats your real "worthless battle" like the battle of the somme (1st and 2nd ones) 1:31 thats so the gameplay is fun. 1:39 thats not true. 1:59 thats again for gameplay. 2:16 AGAIN GAMEPLAY IS SUPOAED TO BE FUN. 2:37 hahahah antares 3:01 true. 3:30 YEA CUZ ITS SUSPOED TO BE FUN
I have a theory these trenches where used when there was a war but after it ended there were abandoned
Lets imagine how hard it is to cross the no man land on capri valley if its accurate
For Whitemouth Estuary, I do agree with the Officers, they would try to Conserve Manpower, Equipment, and Ships, and try to Escape to Riaa or Columba, what the Exercutis Maris did was kinda Stupid, then again, they're Marines, "Brave and Foolish.", They Basically Did A Gallipoli. I mean, they would Probably be in their 30s, maybe late 40s if they're an Officer, by the Time the Antares Imperium tried to Invade Columba. But oh well. (Why did bro Forgor about Whitemouth Anyway)
RECLAIM OUR HOMELANDDDDD 🗣🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥
Also, I believe the Final Aquilan Map (The Battle of Talona), will basically be a Stalingrad or Moscow moment, I Imagine the Imperium would Replace the Comical Amount Of Artillery With CAS. (Close Air Support, like Dive Bombing or Strafing Runs)
The conflict in Aquila started in 1912 so I don’t believe technology wise air support would really be used. The first bombers weren’t used until the Columban Campaign and dive bombers wouldn’t be a thing until about the Riaan, Tucanan, and Centarii campaigns. Maybe light fighter planes in the sky and light bombs, but not the type of Stalingrad you’d expect.
I was kinda confused by the lack of artillery in the whole Aquilan campaign. I guess in Roland’s Prairie there is useful artillery and ammunition in the Battery Liberius so it wasn’t bombed i saw from another comment and Talona makes sense because they stopped bombing it after they realized they were civilians but it’s odd how there were no artillery in Ascendes Forest or just the area surrounding it but mostly no bombings at Route 23.
I have to guess that the Ascendes Forest wasn’t strategically important to strike with artillery since it was just a forest with a trench with both Aquilan and Antares soldiers but for Route 23 I don’t see why they couldn’t have bombed the bunkers and fortifications across the route. I guess the only other reason they didn’t bomb Route 23 was to not damage the road/path which would be used by tanks to get to Talona but it also doesn’t make sense that Aquila had no Field Guns when they were defending Route 23
Thr Aquillan was caught off guard on the forest anyway, its not necesarry to use artillery since the soldiers take care of it
The owner explicitly stated all maps in Centuara are relatively minor in the grander scheme of things. They are not battles that defined an entire campaign or turned the tide of battle. Even if a country was able to win on a certain map (or even all maps in a given campaign), Antares and her allies will still manage to conquer the entire country in lore.
The Devs: No there's no major battles
The Game: entire regiments lost for one fucking farm
I think the respawn cap for Gridlock maps is now 3,000 for each team. Which is around 3 battalions, and thus roughly a single regiment.
@@NoshGilligan23 Seeing as the game up until now is based on WW1 combat, 3k to 6k deaths for one minor battle actually makes sense.
Looking at the grander scope, each nation has over half a million on the front lines so losing that amount is not pivotal if we are looking through the lens of WW1 tactics. I'm sure for more pivotal battles that the game will never have (devs keep the gameplay to insignificant battles), the casualty rate is probably in the tens of thousands and dwarfs the battles that we actually play in.
Im sure for future campaigns we will see shorter times and quicker battles with less casualties due to blitzkrieg probably being used as a doctrine later on.
As for route 23, this was an insane gamble by the Antarean leadership to end the Aquilan war ASAP as atp both sides are in a stalemate. With Antares needing war support and supplies, they just said f*ck it and threw anything they could on route 23 and prayed it worked.
Keep in mind Forma is much larger than Earth and more soldiers can be fielded than in our timeline
@@Teenhistory09 Because population is not scaled, troops have to be spread thin over the much larger area. Cetus manpower is mostly in naval and Corvus is much smaller so armies aren’t giant.
funnily enough forma has about the same population and less land
@@ace74909 oh real?
@@Teenhistory09 yep. on the forma size comparison google doc some guy calculated the land and found out that forma has less land than earth, on the wiki there is also the population count of forma
@@ace74909 wow so the entire planet is just the inanis ocean.
My opinion
These maps are all minor battles, so the losing side would still have lost the war regardless of who won the engagement.
Blackton and Kelson were just small villages that happened to have both sides meet there
Capri and Mons Planus would have been destroyed by artillery
Batteries Q and Liberius were indeed important places to capture
Route 23 should have been bombarded by artillery
Whitemouth was an act of desperation so really there shouldn't be much tactical stuff
Talona itself should have been destroyed by now to artillery
The strategy of the Antareans during the war was to use their naval superiority instead of trying to push through the mountains which was a good decision
No no
These are actually factual according to lore
Personally I feel like the wastes resources is kinda the point of the game to show the brutality of war only for a tiny bit of land.
I feel like I need to add on
Blackton - While I agree it's not strategical much to attack a small town with a coal mine like that, you gotta keep in mind that the armies simply happened to meet while Corvus was retaking territory that Cetus annexed at one point.
Kelson Village - I agree, it makes absolutely no sense, what's the point of sending men to an even smaller town than Blackton that has been already gassed? I mean the concept of fighting in a gassed town is original, I can't lie - But the execution and realism is absolutely terrible.
Capri Valley & Mons Planus - Nothing to be said here, your explanation was on point.
Ascendēns Forest - The Antares (or is it Antaraes?) were scorching Aquillan territory, and from a strategic standpoint - The trenches are FULL of resources from helmets and rifles to artillery shells, which would be extremely beneficial in future advances.
Route 23 - It is really the only logical way to Talona as the majority of the Aquillan landscape is forests, that tanks would have no way of moving in. And the army simply would NEED the tanks since it's not like Aquilla has zero tanks.
Everything else pretty much on point.
Kelson village seems to be just two armies stumbling upon each other by accident. The fact players usually get lost in the beginning and the fact that there's no map to show where you spawn means that it was canonically an unintended chaotic battle especially with the gas hindering vision (and officers can't even use their whistles to organize charges due to the required use of gas masks). I've seen players literally run away from the center of the map thinking they're charging into battle. That happened a lot during the initial phase of WW1 minus the gas part.
I see people making the counter argument that none of the battles are major enough to warrant lore implications, so here's my 2 cents on the issue.
While yes, the scale of the maps we see (usually) justify it not being a major battle, I ultimately feel like it's a copout in order to "maintain canon" that Antares is ultimately victorious in their efforts to take over the continent. There are maps like Talona where they would have to be a major battle, going off what we know of the setting, or at least a smaller section of a bigger battle we focus on.
TL;DR: I'm butthurt that we don't get any big battles for the sake of a single timeline over having in universe alt-history.
these battles, no matter which side wins them, do not impact the course of the war in any way. it still turns out the same. hence the strategic unimportance
It’s meant to be a war over nothing, a battle over a small segment of land nobody cares for.
Ehh most of the time, but
I don't think capturing a coastal battery, breaching a major weak point in a defensive line or a major road hub nothing though
Except that for Antares, it's a war over conquest and control over the entire continent. For Corvus, it's about a war of reclaiming previously stolen territory that is desperately needed to fix the economic woes of your crime and poverty ridden nation. For everybody else it's about maintaining their very existence as a nation.
@@Sleve_McDichael1 I feel like the « they need this for their economy » plotline is stupid. If they were really struggling this bad why would they go to war, especially in the industrial warfare era where wars are expensive and typically not worth it.
well to be fair in trench warfare location does not matter
If i'm Kalvin Tau i'd already give General Archer Dishonorable Discharge before Route 23 like bro's mind is just
Throw in as much firepower and we win
High risk low reward. Simply not worth it
imo capri valley it should start off with both teams in their respective trenches and corvus starts a massive artillery barrage towards the cetus trenches shortly after the match starts. corvan soldiers would then charge and hopefully claim at least 1 trench. then a little while later cetus fires their own barrage and it's one big back and fourth between artillery barrages and waves of infantry, instead of random small barrages and soldiers trickling into no mans land (which makes 0 sense)
I feel like Kelson Village and Blackton aren't important yes, but are just another area of the invading line, also they could be bigger cities, but then the game wouldn't run well.
Mons planus could possibly be under defended, since Cetus was too busy fighting Corvus.
It is
just saying, you show Ursa at 0:21 but im pretty sure they werent there during the Centauran Wars, they were fighting Hydrus, Lepus, Canis and Orion in the Grease Wars and suffering from instability afterwards
@@henrycooper3431 They were in the Tucan Campaign
@@MrMereScratch i must have misremembered then, thanks for pointing out
@@henrycooper3431the devs retconned it so Ursa now fights in the Centaura
@@robowisanveithasung6022 oh that makes sense, thanks!
The grease wars were late 1890s and ended around 1905, Centaura is years after that, And Ursa naval invaded Tucana and riaa in the 30's causing Tucana to fall quickly and Riaa to resort to desperate tactics like suicide bombs and human waves, but in the end tucana and riaa collapsed
How to make good military tatics in fictional wars
@@Stravinghelp If you’re asking for advice: read a lot of military books, stories of veterans, study maps of battles, understand what each country is capable of.
If you’re not asking a question: idk but don’t ask Antares
@@MrMereScratch thanks I am trying to make a fictional world with geopolitical events and wars so on so on
@@Stravinghelp Very nice! I do a lot of writing and worldbuilding myself. Good Luck!
@@MrMereScratch thank you
Moving away from the battles, in general the lore doesnt make sense. Like why didnt any countries on Centaura make pacts when it was clear Antares was trying to invade everyone after the fall of Aquila. Why did Cetus never use there navy or draw troops from it? So many silly flaws in the lore.
@@ag4ming662 I 100% agree. Seeing that Cetan land was close to territory of the entire Third Reich in 1942 (Russia, Norway, etc.), you would imagine that there would be a lot of resistance. But nope, post occupation is stupid easy for Antereas. In WWII, the Germans were often being undermined in a relative sense compared to their iron fist.
The fact alone a country took over the world is so hard to wrap my head around.
nca (northern centaura alliance)
bro didnt hear about NCA
@@buhar3987 But to be fair, Cetus and Aquila were said to be really close but an alliance never came
This is due to decades of imperialism with many of the countries in Centaura being uninterested in forming alliances due to personal self-interests, as mentioned in the "World Lore" page of the wiki, titled "How was Antares able to conquer Centaura by themselves?".
Do you think think that they will add Columba and vega
(4 months late to the proverbial party, but whatever.)
okay, to preface this, i have to clarify that i know centaura isn't intended to be a realistic scenario in the first place, it handwaves' (as in, takes the creative license and alters) aspects of reality and makes concessions to make things like gameplay properly fun, and the lore more impactful. with that said, i think it's some worth looking at exactly what those are and how they're wrong
this video gets a few things about the lore wrong, but it's.. solid nontheless, i suppose. but i feel that this does not acknowledge a lot of the major handwaves that centaura makes. such as its portrayal of early armored vehicles and chlorine gas and how it overstates their decisiveness compared to how they actually were in reality. it isn't a problem that the video didn't cover these admittedly major conceits (alas finding material that covers such subject matter is very hard unless you're willing to put in the effort to do so) but it's definitely worth knowing at least.
anyway, cheers. first video i've seen covering this subject.
Route 23 is eaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasssssy! especially for attacking team, just plan strategy before game and have a competent team, in this game, a bad team means a loss, a good team is a much better chance of victory
Its important to note that without iron for Cetus, there desire for a better Navy wont become a truth. And that the Corvun army needed the coal because coal = Electricity. In total, the Cetus are tempted to do whatever to reach there goal of exploring the sea. And will put as much defenses as they could to there new annexed city of Blackton.
cetus really didnt need the massive navy unless they were planning on going to war with poseidon
@ace74909 well ig that's what happens when your country is named after a water god
@@Pupp3tfr funny thing is if you look up the translation of several east asian countries you can get pretty odd results
oirat means forest people
jurchen means real girls
tufan empire means vomit fan empire and so on
i usualy lose in route 23 as the defenders also they do flank trough the small surounding forest
If you think this is bad then check battalion wars 2 where there is a level where you must defend a palace and everything is wrong since the forces who must defend the said palace come from the beach where it's the SAME side where enemies come from and not enter the besieged palace from behind where it's more safe and the game thinks that putting replacing the enemy's flag with yours and taking the hq is securing an are when actually you must kill all soldiers and secure it by either holding the area or building defenses
Alright I seen some of your comments, would you rather play BF1 or BF5 then this?
Question 2: realism or gameplay?
@@bishalgurung4356
Answer 1: BF1
Answer 2: I like a good blend
I mean the only tactics they really had at that point was covered in the Centauren Lore, such as blmbardments, and Chemical warfare, and urban warfare. Alongside trench warfare the horrible tolls of it. I personally think that Centauras tactical perspective makes sense.
Classicmasternoob was careful for the playable maps to have no significant impact on the war itself in the lore. Even if one side wins it doesn't actually effect the canonical war much, say except for The Siege of Talona.
the Talona map i dont think will impact it as much, As it wont be a map the size of the entire city, only like a suburb of it, so either way, even if aquila wins that battle in the map, they'll most likely still end up either getting massacred or surrendering to the antareans in the other direction
i mean ukraine and russia cared so much for another mining town named bakhmut, we should question why we have blackton irl then
why wouldn't any pf the countries form a coalition after antares invades aquila?
their only justification is uniting centaura which is a big enough threat
+they invaded cetus and don't seem like they will stop soon
@@Scober420 The NCA is formed between the remaining Centauran nations after Aquila falls. For whatever reason it is comically weak.
The argument of “Imperialism estranging countries”, in my opinion is kind of weak. Psychologically, one of man’s greatest priorities is survival. Because Aquila and Cetus had fallen when standing alone, it would be clear that banding together strongly is the only chance of survival.
Second, Antares takes around two decades to fight mountainous Columba but suffers no anti war protests. In WWI, French and British armies were mutineering after three years of trench warfare and Vietnam was absolutely riddled with interior unrest in the United States.
@@MrMereScratchweakest antares plot armor:
I personally think that most of Centaura lore is flawed in general. Like with Antares how they basically have plot armor for the whole story until the Forma War's and then they get the same treatment as Cetus. Cetus falling so quickly makes some but also no sense. Cetus is like the Poland of the Centaura universe, weak but patriotic. Being fueled on patriotism alone. However in game and in the lore they make it seem like Cetus is basically Libra status (having Napoleonic tech according to the lore by the 1910's. I could be thinking of a different nation here, and correct me if I'm wrong). You can't expect me to believe that Cetus who has basically the same amount of tech as Corvus and Antares falls within just 4 years. Now Cetus, it makes sense. But Aquila is a whole different story. You expect me to believe Aquila, of all the nations would lose it's war with Antares? They have patriotism, same hell almost better tech than Antares, already well prepared defenses, and the nickname for your army being the 'Iron Army' like, mate. At worst it would've been a stalemate, at best Aquila would've won and maybe lost small territory.
@@LG_Official. Truly, and thank you for spending your time on this wonderful comment!
@@MrMereScratch No problem mate, I love rambling about things I love and this is just another example.
The antareans likely destroyed the morale of the aquilans by doing America's method in vietnam, Except 10 fold across all of aquila, in the official lore 40% Of Aquila's Forests and countryside were burned by the antareans
In the official army rankings in 1908, Aquila was a lot worse than Antares, and it did not have the same military tech as Antares
@@robowisanveithasung6022 funny thing is that you do not need to be a tech giant to win a war. ie finland nearly defeating the ussr during ww2 and iraq booting out both the uk and usa from their territory.
it would have been more believable if riaa lost because they were kidnapping too many female soldiers from antares and fucking them instead of fighting because the khitans fell in a similar manner by demanding jurchen nobelwomen and losing their entire country because of that
your critism of centaura is better than beta salvations becuase you have good reasons
@@geter8924 Thank you glorious man face! I will never forget your sacrifice.
@@MrMereScratch Do you have a problem with beta salvation always whinning about games for bad reasons?
Blackton was used for economic purposes and to give materials to their navy
I don't get it, the manpower thing is based on the amount of players. Canonically, tactics are WW1-like. To be fair, for WW1, it is pretty realistic. Keeping in mind of course, that even a "low" amount of manpower moght be bigger on Forman terms, as Forma is canonically much larger than Earth, leading to more people. Then again, I could be completely wrong.
@@2boredYT Population is roughly the same with most being concentrated in Orion or Antares. Cetan manpower is also said to be oddly low.
the population of Forma is not much bigger than Earth for whatever reason
@@MrMereScratch Oh. I did not know this. I don't really go too much in-depth with the lore but I assumed the higher population. Although, I do believe that the Forman population _should_ be bigger.
@@MrMereScratch so that explains why antares was so willing to waste so much human life and resources for things like Route 23 etc
I had read somewhere that the trench warfare in ww1 is nothing like what we see in capri valley for example. They didn't blindly send one wave after another into the attack without success, but rather the opposite. They had captured the first trench line "relatively easily", but could not hold it because of a very fast counterattack by the rear lines.
(I see this error, as far as it is one not only in this game)
And please correct me, but are the trenches actually missing dugouts ?
(I know it is a game)
@@mountenia5556 Yeah, a lot of people are under the impression that soldiers are blindly thrown into battle in larger than life combat. The trench networks were not isolated during WWI and went from alps to sea.
@@mountenia5556 Also yes, they are missing dugouts. I get that “there was little time”, but those trenches are massive. You’d think there would be some infrastructure so they can actually function.
I think you’re aware that the battles are not actually major events, and are for gameplay yes? Well the reasons why so many people die in such small villages is that it isn’t actually a lot. In our timeline 1000 people over a village may sound like a lot, but in Centaura there is over a billion people, and small villages will be good for any strategic standpoint since there are few cities. Why few cities? well that’s because everyone lives in the cities that already exist, and for those that don’t have alot of people, well, again strategics.
Not gonna lie, the devs really need to knock Antares down a peg because their plot armor is ridiculous.
I mean Antares is a global power and others are just small countries.
@@timwai3132idk man
Cetus is literally a naval power, THE naval power of their world, Aquila is an economic powerhouse, as well as Vega, and Riaa is basically China
Antares is literally just the USA if it suddenly decided to invade it's neighbours, no one can really stop it. It's actually realistic Antares is winning every single war since they have new resources, strategy and manpower after every war they win in. They're afterwar rebuilding in conquered nations also means they don't deal with rebellions as much as they quickly restore infrastructure (this is also why there weren't any German or Japanese rebels after WW2, the Allies primarily the Americans quickly restored basic infastracture). Basically, it's actually plot breaking for Antares to be weak when it's literally just the USA.
I have a feeling that the devs wont react nicely to this advice.
Centaura: Kill or be killed
for blacktown you do realize its a gold mine right i mean for gods sake the description is a IMPORTANT GOLD MINING TOWN not coal (im not trying to beef with u just saying it)
for Kelson Village yeah i can get your point
For the Trench maps its possibly because uhh idk its the only way for military vehicles to cross since im guessing the terrain is too mountainus and for mons planus you can clearly see the sheer ammount of forrests and not to mention the fact that the armored vehicles don't drive through trees unlike our era also i wonder how will our planet react when faced with the entirety of forma
@@cedricnash725 It’s a coal mining town… Even the canon novel says that…
Noob watched this video and is now remastering some maps lmao
im not well versed in Centaura lore but arent some of these early war stuff just like in real life id assume commanders still have that Napoleonic was mindset causing them to make tatical blunders thats my excuse for the small town maps
Um actually Blackton is a rich coal mining town which is important for both sides to supply the war effort and for economy
The problem is... The entire region of South Corvus is resource rich
Blackton is probably not a massive contributor to that, since there is fiercer fighting on other towns during the start of the war
@@RandomFurry07 oh ok, thanks for telling me that
With how many warships cetus had they could easily sell those ships and make bank
Have you... played Centaura? On route 23 its pretty much just a wait until Aquila loses, I have never seen a single game where Aquila wins route 23 (maybe because they're made to lose it).
@@Masteechief. I’ve played that map at least 30 times and Antares kept winning. That portion of the video was made also taking into account the Aquilan Artillery guns worked.
Centaura is my second-most played Roblox game behind Rise of Nations.
Alright, makes sense
@@MrMereScratch
really? first time on the map when i played and aquila won easily, antares couldn't get through point c (me and some other dude were obliterating their vehicles with AT, that was so fun)
I dont bother these map designs and sense's (besides the artillery) but things bothers me that the weapons in description,
Like cetus rifles desc:having a cheap texture and it have chance of jamming, but in gameplay you can fire this rusty crap over 100 rounds, with no problems
Not same thing to antares/corvun their rifles is a direct upgrade having prevention jamming.
Yet one of the soldiers decided to grab one of these cetus rifles over their new bolt action rifles, (Besides gameplay)
i get it some of the soldiers like cetus actually stealing one of their opponents guns but their opponents stealing their guns as well,
I mean think about it:
imagine a Russian Pmc from tarkov decided to steal a poor made rifle from the scavenger over their high ergonomic ak, seems weird right?
just my thoughts lol
Tbh centuara is just gameplay it’s realistic at the same time fast paced smaller maps are needed for it to be less of a running simulator