OMG! Amazing watching this. Like back to basics and really well explained. I love it when people EXPLAIN EACH STEP AND WHY. I find many videos leave this out _ suppose to protect their art. Thanks buddy! Subscribed.
*SUCH* a useful device for analogue repairs, I must have repaired hundreds if not thousands of power supplies, monitors, televisions, amplifiers etc. etc. with the help of one of these built into a Hameg 'scope. Brilliant for testing individual components and if you're lucky enough to have a working board the same type as the faulty one you can race through them and track down faults/suspicious areas *so* quickly.
It is nice to see a Huntron Tracker 1005B model (this one would be from around 1980) in such great condition. It may have been modified at some point because the LOW range open circuit signature would normally show a diagonal line. That was changed with the introduction of the Tracker 2000 where the LOW range shows a horizontal line. And yes, Huntron is still in business! Nice video!
When I saw the solder sucker tip I knew exactly what you were using, I have the same exact model. I acquired it back in the mid 80's at my old job as a maintenance mechanic. It's in storage for the time being till I get my new work bench together.
We used this type circuit at NASA and WSMR starting in 1970 onward, to repair TTL logic. We built our own and used an oscilloscope for display. Great little device for a few bucks you can build yourself.
Thank you very much sir. This is the first tool I’m building to go with my BK Precision 2120B. I love how YT knew I needed this video. As always a pleasure being learned by Play With Junk channel. ❤️
I’ve used curve tracing most of my days, using a Hameg HZ65 external add on for scopes. However, it could potentially destroy (pun intended!) digital circuits. I then bought an ABI System 8 BFL and AICT module that can curve trace dozens of pins at the same time and even store the traces for comparison later. Really powerful power off diagnostic technique!
but what do you gain by using it vs. just measuring voltages and scoping(?), offcourse once you know what the voltages and waveforms on properly functioning device would be.
@@ivok9846 A quick example I can give is when examining a data or address bus, the characteristic VI trace will typically be the same for each line. Of course, there may be address decoders hanging on some pins and not others which may lead to differences. Any differences such as leakage, open or short pins will instantly become apparent. Removing and curve tracing all the pins on an IC is useful too, e.g comparing all the input and output pins of an op amp or a microprocessor data or address lines. It’s not a substitute for functional testing but can help locate trouble for further investigation.
@@ivok9846 Indeed, if you are good at pattern recognition, this is quite convenient, especially for in-circuit testing Just two kinds of tools that both work fine, provided you heed the warning about digital circuits. The main advantage of the octopus is that it measures both voltage *and* current at the same time. You would need two multimeters at once to get the same data (in numbers rather than a shape on the screen). For field testing it's usually more convenient to just pack two multimeters, since scopes tend to be delicate and either heavy (if using a classic CRO) or expensive (if you use a modern digital one).
Very elegant in its simplicity. A dedicated digital curve tracer is more accurate but I apreciate the ingenuity of making something so useful from only a transformer, couple of resistors and an osciloscope.
In this case accuracy is not needed. You only compare identical curves. If one component shows a different shape than another, you know something is wrong. It's like a continuity beeper to trace wire connections... ;-)
"... and osciloscope" :) it reminded me of an old joke from electronic vocational school in my town - how to measure size of the room with an oscilloscope?...
@@robertoteles Yeah I did that too. And you still can read 555EN (mirrored) on my index finger when I touched a chip that was way hotter than expected 🙂
Excellent video, really interesting and well narrated. I’ve always fancied a VI curve tracer & will certainly be lookin to build the version you’ve shown. Thank you & God bless.
When mounting the load resistors, I would give them more airspace (i.e. longer legs) if there is enough room in the case. That way the cooling is improved, you could see from the blackened pcb that there is too much heat in a confined space.
You are right. But on the other hand, the original resistors were mounted directly on the board and that went well for 20+ years. I hope this line of power supply will disappear in 5 years.
The transistor is mounted in reverse for very specific reason - that is electrical isolation - sometimes the tab is at high voltage and cannot be directly connected to usually grounded heat sink. Various ways are used to overcome this - some use thin heat-conductive isolation pads, some use special transistors with isolated tabs, but this is the cheapest one of them - works only if the planned heat dissipation of the transistor is not too big...
I built the simple add on for my scope to do the same thing with junctions, as used Huntrons are priced more than your scope, if you can find one. But the home made one is simply two selectible AC voltage levels and 60 Hz. A fixed frequency is very limiting when you want to test stuff like inductors or capacitors with it. So I may devise a way to connect a function generator to same sort of test circuit so I can clearly analyze different capacitors and coils with the most appropriate frequency range. With diodes I can screen them for knee voltage and reverse leakage if I have a pile of diodes that are untested and cull the duds. OR match diodes.
Amazing. I saw the Tracker demonstrated by a salesman at a company I was with in about 1978 or 79 I think. I was very impressed and it was too expensive. I have been curious about them ever since.
Super video and brilliant explanation, thank you. I will be building the curve tracer adaptor very soon. (I note you are based in Switzerland, I have great affection for your beautiful country and have had many wonderful hiking experiences there. I will be visiting again soon).
Very neat, this shows that you don't need a super expensive Tektronix curve tracer. I have not seen the Huntrons before, they look awesome. I like your test load.
I've not seen a Huntron Tracker for a very long time. I learned how to use one back in my apprenticeship, but ended up in the digital domain and never really considered getting one. Might end up building one for the scope though, that would be handy addition. The other handy tool was the Toneohm audiable short circuit locator, but I guess the world is flooded with micro ohm and milli ohm meters now.
I use the tracker to test LEDs too. It has a current limit of a few milliamps... a simple go-nogo test 🙂 For example if you want to find out the color of the LED.
8:39s those days we made this jig to prep our components for our manual insertion production lines. Only when parts come in loose packing, if taped we feed them to automatic cut n form machines.
In repairing systems, it really depends on the context of the repair as to the troubleshooting approach used. Obviously, we must consider either an active test or a passive power-off test, or perhaps a mix of the two. But, the testing approach is greatly influenced by what is being repaired and where. For example, the Huntron Tracker used for analog signature analysis for a company repairing their own products at a repair depot, would have procedures to use the Huntron and have a library of known good waveform shapes (signatures) across circuit nodes while the equipment is powered off. We should consider that the Huntron may just be one tool in how the engineering team envisioned the repair procedures. So, you might see AC powered equipment first connected to an AC variable power supply to see what current is being drawn on power up without removing the DUT (Device Under Test) case. The current can tell you a lot especially if you can vary the AC line voltage and protect the DUT with a circuit breakers or a current limiting device. You usually will see two different types of AC variable power supplies one for troubleshooting and one for outgoing test. If we look at analog signature analysis, once a problem is confirmed with the AC power supply then after the unit is powered down, disassembled and large capacitors discharged, the Huntron would be used to compare signatures. The Huntron approach is useful for in-house product repairs that are within the DUT warranty period because there is an established approach to the signature testing and the DUT has not reached the end of its useful life, also the Huntron is very easy to use, you just have to know how to probe and then compare traces. If you play with junk, then you do not know what you will encounter as a repair, so you would have to formulate a strategy for repair as you evaluate the equipment. Signature analysis is certainly doable on unique (one-off) repairs, but I think it loses some of its advantages if you don't have known good signatures. The newer Huntron Trackers like the 2800 are very versatile in analog signature analysis given the options for voltage, source resistance and frequency, but the 2800 is not cheap, and if you move up in capability you are usually incorporating production circuit scanning. If you see brown spots on the PCB you know that it is getting hot. To find out how hot you can use a thermal imaging camera. This may lead you to replacing some resistors with a high wattage equivalent, especially if you have a lot of vertical board space available. I think it should be mentioned that once a power supply is repaired you have to understand if it meets spec. This means measuring load regulation, line regulation, noise (ripple) and a host of other parameters (maybe even custom AC input test waveforms) before releasing it back to the customer. The transistor mounted backwards makes no sense at all. I would guess looking at the board itself is that the PCB layout is wrong, and the manufacturer did not want to waste any PCBs regardless of the problems with useful life. If you look at the PCB you will notice no silkscreen on the top layer or markings of any kind, not even in copper to denote capacitor polarity. Also, if you look at the pad size for the large diode you will notice the pad is actually too small for the lead size given the space available.
Sounds like you know you stuff? Got any videos you recommend for diagnosis of Amplifier receivers (AR). I believe these are mainly amps, but I want to find the exact issue by doing 'passive power off tests' (as you call it) and 'active test'. Sorry to be a clueless moron here, but I am extremely new to this repair stuff. I have discovered that there are few and far between videos that are walk throughs for the absolute beginner i.e. the video maker explaining exactly why probes like a multimeter are put where on a PCB and what they are looking for before moving to the next PCB section, thus tracing the 'what's working, what's not' sections of a PCB. I only learned the other day that part of an 'active test' means placing multimeter probes - one on the earth, one on components' and looking for the potential difference is possible without a BANG! However, the guy never explained this, I had to guess it by remembering the probe testing tutorials and putting 2-and-2 together. It was a UREKA moment. It meant I had 'learned something useful' on my own.
I was missing this tool for my field repairs, but recently came across some nice chinese battery powered handheld 2ch scope w. built in signal generator (w.DPO feature!) - with the help of few external components i have my very versatile curve tracer back in my set of instruments for field use! Wonder why they do not integrate such a useful feature in the otherwise great new toys! Great video btw!
The choice of steel for the heat sink is probably because it is also providing a lot of the structure of the PSU against torsional and compressive forces.
Fun fact... I never build an octopus tester like the one in the schematic. I went the more complicated way and copied the op-amp circuit from the Huntron.
You have to be carefull with the curve tracer on some lower voltage IC's. You can destroy them checking pins. I used one of those, and in some cases it is a handy tool once you understand how to use it. Different manufacturer IC's can look very different when testing the same pins. You can make an adapter like that to attach to your scope.
That's correct. But when using in the "low" range it outputs about 3Vp. I have never experienced a defect caused by the tester. You may kill a laser diode...
Valuable information and especially love the wiring diagram. Are there any caveats when using this device for testing components or circuitry? A video regarding your recommendations for the essential test instruments, would be very valuable for those looking to troubleshoot and repair PCBs.
Excellent! I have to build one now and the first item I will test is the ASA V-I Tracer (shown at 1:47) which I bought but which doesn't work - no output. Thank you!
That's just reminded me that my old Hameg HM 205-2 oscilloscope has a built-in component tester. Three and a half pages of the user manual are dedicated to it. It's something my Rigol DS2072A-S doesn't appear to have, at least according to the manual as I'm sure the word "diode" would be in there if it did.
We had transistor curve tracers in high school, the ones that gave a couple of curves rising from zero to N like in the transistor data books. I don't know where they went. That stuff was all over my head back then.
We had a Tektronix transistor curve tracer at school and our teacher demonstrated the effects of static discharge on MOSFET transistors. We could see the damage very well.
@@PlaywithJunk yes, i am talking about the 80s experience. I used it daily in the factory. Later we added an ersa which has no foot pedal. Just using your index finger to block the hole to start vacuuming. Have u seen one?
I worked with a Tracker 2000 and it got occasional use. I think I used it alot more than anyone else in the shop. Alot of the techs never used it. I copied a circuit online and built a simple version but it only has 60 Hz ability. The 2000 can test at several frequencies thus better for testing capacitors. I tend to use mine for semiconductor junctions. I had a lot of old microwave diodes from a bulk purchase of parts. I found most of them were good but many had poor reverse leakage and forward conduction characteristics, so I screened out the "duds" that worked poorly. I have priced used Huntrons and they are pretty expensive but building the basic tester than uses only line frequency and uses my oscilloscope for display was pretty cheap to build.
I’ve got the hunting tracker 1000 had to outbid the other person to get it. Just looked they’re not cheap even one that doesn’t work. Made the home version years ago to use with a scope that version works as good.
Hi, thanks for sharing this informative video. I have a question please regarding Huntron Tracker 2000. I have one but the transformer has burned out and I need a new part or used to get it back to work, Can you help me where to find it?
It's super simple. Look at 7:58 in the video. Plus and minus of the tester are connected to drain and source of the MOSFET. Gate is connected through one button to plus and through the other button to minus. So you just press one bitton and gate gets connected to drain or source. That's all... If you press both buttons at the same time, you get a short, indicated by a vertical line.
It appears that the manufacturer/seller information and model number are on the right end of the bender, in the video. You might give it another look. HTH.
Normally I do check after replacing components but in this case, I know that board so well, I know it's only the diodes. :-) I normally also check the input (AC) connector curve and I only apply power when it's OK. I guess I have done that off camera. (Or is it in the video?)
Thank you. Very cool. Where is the sucked solder going to...? Is there a chamber you can clean? 7:41 😊👍👍 8:40 maybe put some clear tape on it to prevent further damage.? Thx 4 this vid 😊👍 Ps: 12:39 😅😂😂😳😂😂👍 elsewhere the Power switch would have gotten too hot.. 😉
The solder gets sucked into a glass tube inside the handle. This can be cleaned easily. The newer model we got has disposable tubes made of cardboard. They last quite a while but I prefer the reusable system because it costs nothing except some time for cleaning.
When I listened and watched the first seconds of the video, I thought to myself, finally a video on topic I am curious about with a good sound. Then the jingle passed and I was faced with the usual sobbing into a pillow sound quality.
I'm sorry to hear that. I have a new microphone and I'm not completely familiar with it. I hope you could still enjoy the rest of the video which is quite interesting IMHO
I can't say it's junk because I find it very useful. Maybe you tried to repair the wrong devices... It's perfect for analog circuits like power supplies or TVs
@@PlaywithJunk i am sorry to say junk, i hereby delete it. It is because most of us technicians were not given proper training by the sellers, those who knew how to use left the office, leaving new ones to the instructions manual which was quite thick. Anyway that was the 80s.
Nice vid. Do you know a type or dedicated cutter for Male header pin 2.54, I need to cut them but my cutter is making a sharp finish, maybe there is a cutter for that purpose you may know and can mention.
My guess that last clip the transistor backwards probably a PCB design error got the legs the wrong way around so they just fitted it backwards bizarre. I would of cut the trace on the PCB and use two bodge wires than fit it backwards or they didn’t and it was an alternative part that was the same apart from the different leg position
Maybe they wanted the heatsink on the other side of the transistor and they found out it wouldn't fit into the machine. This manufacturer does a lot of weird things....
It'd be interesting to make one but use a frequency generator and class-D amplifier as the signal source. You could vary the level and frequency of the generator for whatever that you are working on. Low voltage for sensitive electronics, high frequency to test SMPS caps.
A class-d amplifier is probably a bit overkill because you don't need much power. Maybe you find schematics of the Huntron 2000 tracer, that has 50Hz, 400Hz and 2000Hz.
@@PlaywithJunk Thanks for the tip on the Huntron schematics. I'll have to look in to that. I was saying class-d because they are SO cheap. But you're right, some little class-AB like a LM386 would probably be perfect. Heck, for 1mA, you could just use an op-amp.
That is pretty rare and hard to see. Semiconductors are almost always shorted or open when failed. The other problem is when you measure in a circuit, you have all kind of "leaks" from the other components. A bad diode would have a slant curve instead of a vertical/horizontal line.
Can I ask you the manufacture of your de-soldering tool? Yours works so much better and faster than mine. Great informative video. Especially the curve tracer. Thank you!
No that's a KA1M0880 integrated device. It's a power MOSFET and a driver chip in one package. That's why it has 5 pins. I guess it has a very good efficiency otherwise it would blow up in seconds (which it doesnt)
@@PlaywithJunk That's an interesting device. From circuit examples it seems like it's initially fed from a 1W resistor and then a secondary coil. I can't think of any situation where I'd not mount it conventionally? Although it doesn't state if the tab is isolated, and it's not a mistake where the layout was reversed because it's polarised.
Well, even if it's not insulated, a piece of insulating thermal pad would solve the problem. Ithink they simply designet it wrong and then it was no more time to change the heat sink. Ehh... it will work anyway... and amazingly it does.
It can test everything but only on a good/bad basis. Or you compare a known good part with an unknown. Also high voltage parts are not testable because you only use a few volts.
For TTL logic, we use our tracker as showed in the video, just a commercial one. With simple gates you can see a difference between a faulty and a good one. But you need a good board to compare.
As seen on Mr Carlson's Lab :) I sometimes use one I built from a gutted old scope. Speaking of scopes - Hameg had a bunch of models (e.g. HM204) with that feature built in. Pretty nice. Lovely 10Ω resistor :) All hail the FULL BRIDGE RECTIFIER, for it brings us the power!
Have we not all used a simple multimeter in resistor or diode mode to test circuits ? Well, this octopus tester does the same. But instead of having to swap leads and switch between different modes, it does this all in one go. If you want to go real fancy, replace the transformer with a sine wave generator. That way you can not only identify if there is a resistance/short/diode but even show inductance and capacitance
You maybe solved a mystery that was haunting me from decades! I was working in greece and I used a similar devices in the '90, to test and fix digital boards full of components, by tracing faults. It worked like this: You have a GOOD board and an identical faulty one. You put the ground on all 2 boards, then you probe the good board and the bad board anywhere (on IC pins etc) and you must have identical images. When you found a different shape, almost every time there's where the fault is - change the component, test again, etc. I never remember how this device was called. Do you think that this is it? Thank you :)
That sounds like our Huntron Tracer 2000. It has two channels that can be set to alternate and that makes it easy to compare two circuits or boards. That's why we call it the Idiots Tester 🙂 You don't need to know anything about the circuit. When you see a difference... replace the chip. I did that many times too.... 🙂
wonderful tool really! one question please, what is that desoldering pump you use? It looks like it is a lot easier and safier to use than usual pump plus iron I use.
I used to use and love the huntron tracker. It is cool to see one of those again. Best probes ever, I need some new ones. Do you have a source for the probes?
The probes and cables on the tracker are from Hirschmann, a german company. They are pretty old, I don't know if they are still made in the same style. You should get the products from all big distributors.
@@PlaywithJunk I am a Russian-speaking Internet user and watched your video and liked it. You will have more interesting videos, and their viewing will also increase. But maybe I'm wrong🙂
Thank you very much for your video. I will buy myself a device right now too. One question; I find your desoldering tool very intriguing. Is it sucking up the solder? Or is is a blow torch? Which one is it you are using and could you please give a recommendation? Thanks in advance.
It sucks.... 🙂 It's a Pace desoldering station and it's relatively expensive. I have one at home too but I only bought the handpiece and put an old transformator and a tiny vacuum pump in an enclosure. That works pretty well too...
The volume is a bit low but compared with other videos, not so much as you say. Have you tried it on another device? Maybe your phone can not reproduce my angel-like voice ;-)
in... ? In what? This device is a tiny oscilloscope in XY mode. If you use a "real" analog oscilloscope, you would get the same display. Digital scopes don't look as good.
OMG! Amazing watching this. Like back to basics and really well explained. I love it when people EXPLAIN EACH STEP AND WHY. I find many videos leave this out _ suppose to protect their art. Thanks buddy! Subscribed.
Love that desoldering Iron .. which I have never seen before .. Very cool tool indeed ..
PACE is the brand...
*SUCH* a useful device for analogue repairs, I must have repaired hundreds if not thousands of power supplies, monitors, televisions, amplifiers etc. etc. with the help of one of these built into a Hameg 'scope.
Brilliant for testing individual components and if you're lucky enough to have a working board the same type as the faulty one you can race through them and track down faults/suspicious areas *so* quickly.
Do you know a useful device for testing digital components (logic gates) ?
@@wadib3eed7the best you can do is a logic analyzer.
@@wadib3eed7a logic probe.
I know what you mean, I must have repaired thousands if not millions of power supplies with the help of a soldering iron.
The Value in this video ☝️ is priceless.
Well done 👍
Beautiful work. Such skill & intelligence. Perfect lab you have too. What a plessure to see this. Thankyou
That’s my workplace… thank you!
^pleasure. it’s pleasure 🤨
It is nice to see a Huntron Tracker 1005B model (this one would be from around 1980) in such great condition. It may have been modified at some point because the LOW range open circuit signature would normally show a diagonal line. That was changed with the introduction of the Tracker 2000 where the LOW range shows a horizontal line. And yes, Huntron is still in business!
Nice video!
When I saw the solder sucker tip I knew exactly what you were using, I have the same exact model. I acquired it back in the mid 80's at my old job as a maintenance mechanic. It's in storage for the time being till I get my new work bench together.
Pace ...brother 🙂
We used this type circuit at NASA and WSMR starting in 1970 onward, to repair TTL logic.
We built our own and used an oscilloscope for display. Great little device for a few bucks you can build yourself.
Our tester was also bought in the TTL time. We repaired DEC PDP boards.
For analog circuits it's still useful today.
In the Navy, we referred to it as an octopus.
@@josephbento7545 Do you know why it is called octopus? I don't see any connection to that 8 legged animal.
Thank you very much sir. This is the first tool I’m building to go with my BK Precision 2120B.
I love how YT knew I needed this video.
As always a pleasure being learned by Play With Junk channel.
❤️
Also that 3D printed guide for THC “Through Hole Components”
Will come in handy too.
I’m on it Boss.
God Bless.
It's not 3D printed. That bending tool is from the 1970's. They are still made today, just google "lead bending tool"
@@PlaywithJunk you’ve kept great care of it. That’s the first time I’ve seen one, let alone one being used.
Thanks Christian
I’ve used curve tracing most of my days, using a Hameg HZ65 external add on for scopes. However, it could potentially destroy (pun intended!) digital circuits. I then bought an ABI System 8 BFL and AICT module that can curve trace dozens of pins at the same time and even store the traces for comparison later. Really powerful power off diagnostic technique!
but what do you gain by using it vs. just measuring voltages and scoping(?), offcourse once you know what the voltages and waveforms on properly functioning device would be.
@@ivok9846 A quick example I can give is when examining a data or address bus, the characteristic VI trace will typically be the same for each line. Of course, there may be address decoders hanging on some pins and not others which may lead to differences. Any differences such as leakage, open or short pins will instantly become apparent. Removing and curve tracing all the pins on an IC is useful too, e.g comparing all the input and output pins of an op amp or a microprocessor data or address lines. It’s not a substitute for functional testing but can help locate trouble for further investigation.
@@ivok9846 Indeed, if you are good at pattern recognition, this is quite convenient, especially for in-circuit testing Just two kinds of tools that both work fine, provided you heed the warning about digital circuits. The main advantage of the octopus is that it measures both voltage *and* current at the same time. You would need two multimeters at once to get the same data (in numbers rather than a shape on the screen). For field testing it's usually more convenient to just pack two multimeters, since scopes tend to be delicate and either heavy (if using a classic CRO) or expensive (if you use a modern digital one).
@@LarixusSnydes not that expensive anymore. i think eevblog tested rigol that can be usb powered...dho800. portable too.
Very elegant in its simplicity. A dedicated digital curve tracer is more accurate but I apreciate the ingenuity of making something so useful from only a transformer, couple of resistors and an osciloscope.
In this case accuracy is not needed. You only compare identical curves. If one component shows a different shape than another, you know something is wrong. It's like a continuity beeper to trace wire connections... ;-)
@@PlaywithJunk I have no thermal cam and naively I touch the components looking for shots 90% of cases works for me
"... and osciloscope" :) it reminded me of an old joke from electronic vocational school in my town - how to measure size of the room with an oscilloscope?...
@@robertoteles Yeah I did that too. And you still can read 555EN (mirrored) on my index finger when I touched a chip that was way hotter than expected 🙂
Excellent video, really interesting and well narrated. I’ve always fancied a VI curve tracer & will certainly be lookin to build the version you’ve shown. Thank you & God bless.
Come on, the "most useful tool ever for electronics repairs" is a multimeter!
Thank you for the memories. I first saw the octopus circuit in 1962 in a late 50’s copy of “electronics Illustrated”.
I'd love to read that magazine...
When mounting the load resistors, I would give them more airspace (i.e. longer legs) if there is enough room in the case. That way the cooling is improved, you could see from the blackened pcb that there is too much heat in a confined space.
You are right. But on the other hand, the original resistors were mounted directly on the board and that went well for 20+ years. I hope this line of power supply will disappear in 5 years.
That reverse mounted transistor is a weird choice. But so is mounting the power switch _through_ the heatsink. Weird.
It also seems to be mounted with a plastic snap rivet, so I doubt it gets very hot...
The transistor is mounted in reverse for very specific reason - that is electrical isolation - sometimes the tab is at high voltage and cannot be directly connected to usually grounded heat sink. Various ways are used to overcome this - some use thin heat-conductive isolation pads, some use special transistors with isolated tabs, but this is the cheapest one of them - works only if the planned heat dissipation of the transistor is not too big...
@@MrGabrovcheit makes sense.😊
@@MrGabrovcheI recon the PCB designer got the legs backwards, or they would of just done that if it was an insulation thing
@@MrGabrovche Well, it surely didn't work wel here ... or am I the only one that sees a cracked transistor ...
Wow, such an interesting video. Thank you very much! And really cool devices you built and use :)
I built the simple add on for my scope to do the same thing with junctions, as used Huntrons are priced more than your scope, if you can find one. But the home made one is simply two selectible AC voltage levels and 60 Hz. A fixed frequency is very limiting when you want to test stuff like inductors or capacitors with it. So I may devise a way to connect a function generator to same sort of test circuit so I can clearly analyze different capacitors and coils with the most appropriate frequency range. With diodes I can screen them for knee voltage and reverse leakage if I have a pile of diodes that are untested and cull the duds. OR match diodes.
Very nice. Thank you for sharing your work with us.
Amazing. I saw the Tracker demonstrated by a salesman at a company I was with in about 1978 or 79 I think. I was very impressed and it was too expensive. I have been curious about them ever since.
Super video and brilliant explanation, thank you. I will be building the curve tracer adaptor very soon. (I note you are based in Switzerland, I have great affection for your beautiful country and have had many wonderful hiking experiences there. I will be visiting again soon).
Absolutely fantastic practical demonstration of curve tracer. ❤❤❤
Thank you! :-)
Very neat, this shows that you don't need a super expensive Tektronix curve tracer. I have not seen the Huntrons before, they look awesome. I like your test load.
PSU's like that are good for our business...! Subbed.
I've not seen a Huntron Tracker for a very long time. I learned how to use one back in my apprenticeship, but ended up in the digital domain and never really considered getting one. Might end up building one for the scope though, that would be handy addition. The other handy tool was the Toneohm audiable short circuit locator, but I guess the world is flooded with micro ohm and milli ohm meters now.
I use the tracker to test LEDs too. It has a current limit of a few milliamps... a simple go-nogo test 🙂 For example if you want to find out the color of the LED.
8:39s those days we made this jig to prep our components for our manual insertion production lines. Only when parts come in loose packing, if taped we feed them to automatic cut n form machines.
In repairing systems, it really depends on the context of the repair as to the troubleshooting approach used. Obviously, we must consider either an active test or a passive power-off test, or perhaps a mix of the two. But, the testing approach is greatly influenced by what is being repaired and where.
For example, the Huntron Tracker used for analog signature analysis for a company repairing their own products at a repair depot, would have procedures to use the Huntron and have a library of known good waveform shapes (signatures) across circuit nodes while the equipment is powered off.
We should consider that the Huntron may just be one tool in how the engineering team envisioned the repair procedures. So, you might see AC powered equipment first connected to an AC variable power supply to see what current is being drawn on power up without removing the DUT (Device Under Test) case. The current can tell you a lot especially if you can vary the AC line voltage and protect the DUT with a circuit breakers or a current limiting device. You usually will see two different types of AC variable power supplies one for troubleshooting and one for outgoing test.
If we look at analog signature analysis, once a problem is confirmed with the AC power supply then after the unit is powered down, disassembled and large capacitors discharged, the Huntron would be used to compare signatures.
The Huntron approach is useful for in-house product repairs that are within the DUT warranty period because there is an established approach to the signature testing and the DUT has not reached the end of its useful life, also the Huntron is very easy to use, you just have to know how to probe and then compare traces.
If you play with junk, then you do not know what you will encounter as a repair, so you would have to formulate a strategy for repair as you evaluate the equipment. Signature analysis is certainly doable on unique (one-off) repairs, but I think it loses some of its advantages if you don't have known good signatures. The newer Huntron Trackers like the 2800 are very versatile in analog signature analysis given the options for voltage, source resistance and frequency, but the 2800 is not cheap, and if you move up in capability you are usually incorporating production circuit scanning.
If you see brown spots on the PCB you know that it is getting hot. To find out how hot you can use a thermal imaging camera. This may lead you to replacing some resistors with a high wattage equivalent, especially if you have a lot of vertical board space available.
I think it should be mentioned that once a power supply is repaired you have to understand if it meets spec. This means measuring load regulation, line regulation, noise (ripple) and a host of other parameters (maybe even custom AC input test waveforms) before releasing it back to the customer.
The transistor mounted backwards makes no sense at all. I would guess looking at the board itself is that the PCB layout is wrong, and the manufacturer did not want to waste any PCBs regardless of the problems with useful life. If you look at the PCB you will notice no silkscreen on the top layer or markings of any kind, not even in copper to denote capacitor polarity. Also, if you look at the pad size for the large diode you will notice the pad is actually too small for the lead size given the space available.
Sounds like you know you stuff? Got any videos you recommend for diagnosis of Amplifier receivers (AR). I believe these are mainly amps, but I want to find the exact issue by doing 'passive power off tests' (as you call it) and 'active test'.
Sorry to be a clueless moron here, but I am extremely new to this repair stuff. I have discovered that there are few and far between videos that are walk throughs for the absolute beginner i.e. the video maker explaining exactly why probes like a multimeter are put where on a PCB and what they are looking for before moving to the next PCB section, thus tracing the 'what's working, what's not' sections of a PCB.
I only learned the other day that part of an 'active test' means placing multimeter probes - one on the earth, one on components' and looking for the potential difference is possible without a BANG! However, the guy never explained this, I had to guess it by remembering the probe testing tutorials and putting 2-and-2 together. It was a UREKA moment. It meant I had 'learned something useful' on my own.
Most comprehensive clip I ever saw! ❤
Thank you!
It was good to see you solder the resistors raised from the board for better air flow. That PCB has been overheated.
Thanks!
Oh… thank you! I think you are the first „super thanker“
@@PlaywithJunk you're welcome. Thank you for your efforts.
I was missing this tool for my field repairs, but recently came across some nice chinese battery powered handheld 2ch scope w. built in signal generator (w.DPO feature!) - with the help of few external components i have my very versatile curve tracer back in my set of instruments for field use! Wonder why they do not integrate such a useful feature in the otherwise great new toys! Great video btw!
is it the dso2512g? i seen a video of someone using XY mode to test components with the help of some extra components, is that the same thing?
The choice of steel for the heat sink is probably because it is also providing a lot of the structure of the PSU against torsional and compressive forces.
No. It is just a wrong choice. A 1mm aluminium sheet would be stable enough.
They probably had family in a steel manufacturing factory that did bending. That way his whole family got paid 😅
We always called it a "knee bender". It also gives you a circle for a capacitor.
Yaaay! Before you showed the octopus, I was chanting "octopus, octopus, octopus".... and then it appeared! ;)
I love the MOSFET foot tapping.
Fun fact... I never build an octopus tester like the one in the schematic. I went the more complicated way and copied the op-amp circuit from the Huntron.
You have to be carefull with the curve tracer on some lower voltage IC's. You can destroy them checking pins. I used one of those, and in some cases it is a handy tool once you understand how to use it. Different manufacturer IC's can look very different when testing the same pins. You can make an adapter like that to attach to your scope.
That's correct. But when using in the "low" range it outputs about 3Vp. I have never experienced a defect caused by the tester. You may kill a laser diode...
Valuable information and especially love the wiring diagram. Are there any caveats when using this device for testing components or circuitry?
A video regarding your recommendations for the essential test instruments, would be very valuable for those looking to troubleshoot and repair PCBs.
Beautiful work. fantastic.
Wow! Nice effect with foot stepping!!!!
Yeah I found that by coincidence... 🙂
I had one from Hameg ( I think) as an add-on to a scope.
Yes some Hameg scopes had that… I wish I had one.
My hameg 603 has this built in.... I just press the component tester button, very handy except for scopes being huge....
So basically a component tester that comes with most hameg scopes... So useful it's unreal. Must have if you repair stuff without schematics
Excellent! I have to build one now and the first item I will test is the ASA V-I Tracer (shown at 1:47) which I bought but which doesn't work - no output. Thank you!
So you need a curve tracer to repair a curve tracer 🙂 There are some tools you always need two... like soldering irons for example.
Yes, DVMs and screwdrivers, but the irony of having to repair the test kit....
Super interesting! I also love the Distrelec component bender (or whatever is called) never saw that
Distrelec is only an advertisement... the tool is a "component lead bender". You can find it on Google.
That's just reminded me that my old Hameg HM 205-2 oscilloscope has a built-in component tester. Three and a half pages of the user manual are dedicated to it. It's something my Rigol DS2072A-S doesn't appear to have, at least according to the manual as I'm sure the word "diode" would be in there if it did.
It's a pity that modern scopes don't have that function. It would be more useful than a logic analyzer.
We had transistor curve tracers in high school, the ones that gave a couple of curves rising from zero to N like in the transistor data books. I don't know where they went. That stuff was all over my head back then.
We had a Tektronix transistor curve tracer at school and our teacher demonstrated the effects of static discharge on MOSFET transistors. We could see the damage very well.
Never heard of this before, wonderful, I mean, really!
Has the Mosfet at 12:51 blown? Looks to me like a big crack at the side :O
Yes that one is defective. Maybe caused by the "superb" mounting. Problem is that this Mosfet/chip is not available anymore. So repair is difficult.
5:58s sounds like a pacecenter desoldering tool working. Could it be correct?
Yes it’s a Pace. A very old one from the 1980s
@@PlaywithJunk yes, i am talking about the 80s experience. I used it daily in the factory. Later we added an ersa which has no foot pedal. Just using your index finger to block the hole to start vacuuming. Have u seen one?
I worked with a Tracker 2000 and it got occasional use. I think I used it alot more than anyone else in the shop. Alot of the techs never used it. I copied a circuit online and built a simple version but it only has 60 Hz ability. The 2000 can test at several frequencies thus better for testing capacitors. I tend to use mine for semiconductor junctions. I had a lot of old microwave diodes from a bulk purchase of parts. I found most of them were good but many had poor reverse leakage and forward conduction characteristics, so I screened out the "duds" that worked poorly. I have priced used Huntrons and they are pretty expensive but building the basic tester than uses only line frequency and uses my oscilloscope for display was pretty cheap to build.
It's a shame but I use it more frequently for testing LEDs than for anything else. Since power supplies have become so cheap, we rarely repair them.
8:20 what is the name of that blue component lead bender?
I'd call it a "component lead bender".... why not gooogle that?
Actually, many oscilloscopes come with a component tester like this already integrated, such as the Hameg 200 series.
I know... unfortunately I don't have one of those. :-(
I’ve got the hunting tracker 1000 had to outbid the other person to get it. Just looked they’re not cheap even one that doesn’t work. Made the home version years ago to use with a scope that version works as good.
So cool to see repairs
That was cool as you putting yourself in the circuit!
I invented the sensor button... 🙂
I found the Huntron 2000 very useful when working for Telstra Service Center for near 14 years. Very expensive through.
Expensive yes but it still works after 20+ years. And we still use it.
Hi, thanks for sharing this informative video. I have a question please regarding Huntron Tracker 2000. I have one but the transformer has burned out and I need a new part or used to get it back to work, Can you help me where to find it?
We built our own in the early 70’s out of a OS-8 Oscilloscope. We called it a “Octopus”.
Very good! Could You post the mosfet tester schematic? Thank You!!
It's super simple. Look at 7:58 in the video. Plus and minus of the tester are connected to drain and source of the MOSFET. Gate is connected through one button to plus and through the other button to minus. So you just press one bitton and gate gets connected to drain or source. That's all...
If you press both buttons at the same time, you get a short, indicated by a vertical line.
@@PlaywithJunk Thank You very much!!!
Thanks for posting this video.
Some very interesting information.
Rubycon is the good stuff, you clearly are a man of good taste!
Thank you! Panasonic makes also good caps and batteries.
12:10 What does this lamp assembly do?
It‘s just a big resistor (10 Ohm) as a load to test the power supply. And the green LED tells me that power is on. 😊
@@PlaywithJunk I think there should be a video about that too. It looks like a Tesla coil.Thank you for your response, I subscribed :)
@@AhmetBayil This is only a resistor and a LED.... that's not enough for a video 🙂
I agree the huntron tracker was very useful for comparisons.❤
Oh, it still is. I use it frequently.
Great video, thanks for sharing.
Pretty good. Is there any part number for that blue component lead bender? Thank you.
It appears that the manufacturer/seller information and model number are on the right end of the bender, in the video. You might give it another look. HTH.
That's a prime candidate for 3D printing these days!
Just google "lead bending tool" They are still manufactured in all kind of forms and sizes.
That will not help much because the tool is from the 1970's. But if you google "lead bending tool" you will find it.
You can make a simple lead bending tool from a piece of Veroboard / stripboard cut diagonally on one side
When I looked that you've said diodes are shorted, and after removing them didn't check if the short is still on the PCB, I've started to worry :D.
Normally I do check after replacing components but in this case, I know that board so well, I know it's only the diodes. :-)
I normally also check the input (AC) connector curve and I only apply power when it's OK. I guess I have done that off camera. (Or is it in the video?)
@@PlaywithJunk I've watched it 2 days ago, so not sure m8 :), sorry.
Thank you. Very cool.
Where is the sucked solder going to...? Is there a chamber you can clean?
7:41 😊👍👍
8:40 maybe put some clear tape on it to prevent further damage.?
Thx 4 this vid 😊👍
Ps: 12:39 😅😂😂😳😂😂👍 elsewhere the Power switch would have gotten too hot.. 😉
The solder gets sucked into a glass tube inside the handle. This can be cleaned easily. The newer model we got has disposable tubes made of cardboard. They last quite a while but I prefer the reusable system because it costs nothing except some time for cleaning.
When I listened and watched the first seconds of the video, I thought to myself, finally a video on topic I am curious about with a good sound. Then the jingle passed and I was faced with the usual sobbing into a pillow sound quality.
I'm sorry to hear that. I have a new microphone and I'm not completely familiar with it.
I hope you could still enjoy the rest of the video which is quite interesting IMHO
We had that huntron 2000, but rarely used.
I can't say it's junk because I find it very useful. Maybe you tried to repair the wrong devices... It's perfect for analog circuits like power supplies or TVs
@@PlaywithJunk i am sorry to say junk, i hereby delete it. It is because most of us technicians were not given proper training by the sellers, those who knew how to use left the office, leaving new ones to the instructions manual which was quite thick. Anyway that was the 80s.
@@sholimz Of course you need someone who shows you how to use it. If you don't know what the wiggly lines mean, you're lost 🙄
Hi , can you please give me the name of your desoldering station? I would like to buy one.
it's from PACE .... more info in the video description. :-)
Nice vid. Do you know a type or dedicated cutter for Male header pin 2.54, I need to cut them but my cutter is making a sharp finish, maybe there is a cutter for that purpose you may know and can mention.
My guess that last clip the transistor backwards probably a PCB design error got the legs the wrong way around so they just fitted it backwards bizarre. I would of cut the trace on the PCB and use two bodge wires than fit it backwards or they didn’t and it was an alternative part that was the same apart from the different leg position
Maybe they wanted the heatsink on the other side of the transistor and they found out it wouldn't fit into the machine. This manufacturer does a lot of weird things....
Maybe don't want electrical contact between the Heatsink and the tab? And don't want to buy an isolation kit?
@@mb106429 Yeah, that's the way professionals do it... ;-)
It'd be interesting to make one but use a frequency generator and class-D amplifier as the signal source. You could vary the level and frequency of the generator for whatever that you are working on. Low voltage for sensitive electronics, high frequency to test SMPS caps.
A class-d amplifier is probably a bit overkill because you don't need much power. Maybe you find schematics of the Huntron 2000 tracer, that has 50Hz, 400Hz and 2000Hz.
@@PlaywithJunk Thanks for the tip on the Huntron schematics. I'll have to look in to that.
I was saying class-d because they are SO cheap. But you're right, some little class-AB like a LM386 would probably be perfect. Heck, for 1mA, you could just use an op-amp.
Would have been interesting to see what the trace looks like when a component is leaky and not working properly, but not completely failed.
That is pretty rare and hard to see. Semiconductors are almost always shorted or open when failed. The other problem is when you measure in a circuit, you have all kind of "leaks" from the other components.
A bad diode would have a slant curve instead of a vertical/horizontal line.
Can I ask you the manufacture of your de-soldering tool? Yours works so much better and faster than mine. Great informative video. Especially the curve tracer. Thank you!
It's an old PACE model. They are expensive but good. One station we use is over 30 years old.
Where will be get this individual component tester I know old analogue oscilloscope is available using individually please reply me
In the video at about 2:00 you can see all kinds of testers.... choose what you need.
I do not see a diode, so the tester is working on ac, or do I got that wrong.
Yes it tests with AC. And that's good for many conponents. A capacitor needs to be charged and discharged....
Great Video. Thank you.
You're welcome! :-)
12:44 isn’t that a bridge rectifier? (I see 4 terminals on the one at the back)That’s not likely to get warm maybe
No that's a KA1M0880 integrated device. It's a power MOSFET and a driver chip in one package. That's why it has 5 pins. I guess it has a very good efficiency otherwise it would blow up in seconds (which it doesnt)
@@PlaywithJunk That's an interesting device. From circuit examples it seems like it's initially fed from a 1W resistor and then a secondary coil. I can't think of any situation where I'd not mount it conventionally? Although it doesn't state if the tab is isolated, and it's not a mistake where the layout was reversed because it's polarised.
@@PlaywithJunk It looks cracked at12:52...
Well, even if it's not insulated, a piece of insulating thermal pad would solve the problem. Ithink they simply designet it wrong and then it was no more time to change the heat sink. Ehh... it will work anyway... and amazingly it does.
@@xtevesousa good spot 🙃
Thanks for the useful information, very informative.
I would like to know as to where can I purchase the “DISTRELECT” Resistor Lead Forming Tool.
You can’t. That tool is over 30 years old. But if you google lead bender you will find similar tools
can this be used for ic, igbt, triac testing and comparing?
It can test everything but only on a good/bad basis. Or you compare a known good part with an unknown. Also high voltage parts are not testable because you only use a few volts.
Do you know a method to test a logic gate inside a circuit without remove it from the board? and some optocouplers too ?
For TTL logic, we use our tracker as showed in the video, just a commercial one. With simple gates you can see a difference between a faulty and a good one. But you need a good board to compare.
Hi!
5:31 What is this device?
I meant a soldering iron.
It's a PACE desoldering iron... paceworldwide.com/
@@PlaywithJunk, Nice!
Thanks for your answer!
great video and groovy music!
Creative video, thank you :)
Great stuff. Regretable that default sound level too low.
As seen on Mr Carlson's Lab :)
I sometimes use one I built from a gutted old scope. Speaking of scopes - Hameg had a bunch of models (e.g. HM204) with that feature built in. Pretty nice.
Lovely 10Ω resistor :)
All hail the FULL BRIDGE RECTIFIER, for it brings us the power!
AMEN!
Kann ich damit eine Apfel Uhr flicken?
I made one back in the 1980's when I was an AT in the USN.
Does it still work? What's an "AT"?
Sehr gut. Habe auch beide. Gibt es das auch in deutsch? Danke.
Have we not all used a simple multimeter in resistor or diode mode to test circuits ?
Well, this octopus tester does the same. But instead of having to swap leads and switch between different modes, it does this all in one go.
If you want to go real fancy, replace the transformer with a sine wave generator. That way you can not only identify if there is a resistance/short/diode but even show inductance and capacitance
We have a newer Huntron2000 that has such an oscillator. It can do 50, 400 and 2000Hz (or so...)
You maybe solved a mystery that was haunting me from decades!
I was working in greece and I used a similar devices in the '90, to test and fix digital boards full of components, by tracing faults.
It worked like this:
You have a GOOD board and an identical faulty one. You put the ground on all 2 boards, then you probe the good board and the bad board anywhere (on IC pins etc) and you must have identical images.
When you found a different shape, almost every time there's where the fault is - change the component, test again, etc.
I never remember how this device was called.
Do you think that this is it?
Thank you :)
That sounds like our Huntron Tracer 2000. It has two channels that can be set to alternate and that makes it easy to compare two circuits or boards. That's why we call it the Idiots Tester 🙂 You don't need to know anything about the circuit. When you see a difference... replace the chip.
I did that many times too.... 🙂
Yes this is the Huntron, which model I do not know. But, what you are doing is called power-off direct comparative analog signature analysis.
PODCASA That's a nice acronym 🙂
wonderful tool really! one question please, what is that desoldering pump you use? It looks like it is a lot easier and safier to use than usual pump plus iron I use.
This is a desoldering station from PACE (USA). Our station is very old but they still make tools like that. But they are not cheap...
Is that a Weller with a magnastat tip?
I bought mine 1982 and it is still working 👍
No, it's a slightly more modern electronic station with a temperature selecting knob. But we also have some Magnastats around for soldering training.
link to soundtrack, please ?
I can't say anymore. It's from the UA-cam Music Library...
I used to use and love the huntron tracker. It is cool to see one of those again. Best probes ever, I need some new ones. Do you have a source for the probes?
The probes and cables on the tracker are from Hirschmann, a german company. They are pretty old, I don't know if they are still made in the same style. You should get the products from all big distributors.
What is that you're using to remove the solder and components from the circuit board? Sounds like it has a pump hooked to it.
It's a PACE desoldering station. It uses a hollow tip and it has a vacuum pump inside the station box. It sucks the molten solder from the PCB.
Greetings! Are there any other examples of repairs using Octopus on your channel? Thank you.
Not at the moment. But when I see how popular this video got, I'll probably add some more :-)
@@PlaywithJunk I am a Russian-speaking Internet user and watched your video and liked it. You will have more interesting videos, and their viewing will also increase. But maybe I'm wrong🙂
@@МихаилМихаил-х5ц Sometimes it is surprising what videos get a lot of views. It's almost unpredictable... 🙂 But repair videos are always popular.
@@PlaywithJunk Keep releasing videos.
Thank you very much for your video. I will buy myself a device right now too.
One question; I find your desoldering tool very intriguing. Is it sucking up the solder? Or is is a blow torch? Which one is it you are using and could you please give a recommendation?
Thanks in advance.
It sucks.... 🙂 It's a Pace desoldering station and it's relatively expensive. I have one at home too but I only bought the handpiece and put an old transformator and a tiny vacuum pump in an enclosure. That works pretty well too...
Another very helpful advice. Thank you very much.
Your audio volume is almost zero at its full volume setting. No problems with other YT selections' volume, so it is not my phone.
The volume is a bit low but compared with other videos, not so much as you say. Have you tried it on another device? Maybe your phone can not reproduce my angel-like voice ;-)
quick question. is this tool producing same results as an oscilloscope in ?
in... ? In what?
This device is a tiny oscilloscope in XY mode. If you use a "real" analog oscilloscope, you would get the same display. Digital scopes don't look as good.