I started playing because of your videos. I used to play frozen throne on battle net when it first came out i 2003 or 2004 whenever it was. I also won a few comps on Australia when I was younger. Playing first strike brings back some nostalgia for me. I have 2 companies and a family but somehow I can find time for this game.
I actually did that yesterday, went full units and it stacked with ally kotg, no exp loss and almost took tower first 2 of my waves. (Then they both went double gold mine tier 3 and we lost ours
really nice to see your joy while playin i like this variant of direct strike very much, i played over 3k games of the original and can feel your adiction^^ to the 3 gold rush: i would just skip gold for a clear reason conquering mid is important, but espacially in the early mostly matchup decided to go later for the mines doesnt made sense considering that a normal game (original) goes around 15-20 min honestly its more harmful to drag the fight and stack your wave into another than letting the early waves run into the tower (no matter your plan, around wave 4-5 you need an army) hitting in wave 4-5 with t2 units (ideally counter ones) and a full eco helps your team alot more than investing in a negative matchup for the sake of "helping" if someone wonder why wave 4-5 is so important, thats normally the threshold when the enemy army can really destroy the bunker/tower if you have just a hero as example, can differ in WC if someone insist that you skip without plan eco (in a negative matchup, a positive is quite pointless) ask how the gold would win your lane now, maybe they know something always worth investigating (very often i hear things like "build units" or "go 2/2 upgrades" with 2-5 units)
Grubby u always seem surprised when you win. There’s a common strategy in Tug’o’war that if applied to DS would win you every game. It’s quite simple; u allow enemy to attack your throne by reducing your spends, deliberately so they over commit all their resources, then once your throne has defended against their stacked push, you mass rush siege units and take their throne with your own counter-stack and they have minimal resource to counter. This in tug’o’war is the equivalent of releasing the rope slightly to let your opponent get over confident to create a window of opportunity to build fast momentum.
While this is true remember controlling the middle give you more income so when the stacks fail to finish up the game now the opponents have more resources to essentially finish up the game ending with your loss
@@darkerrex1442 yeah true mate but ultimately the winner of DS isn’t about resource control at all, it’s about who uses their throne to inflict the most damage. The throne is the 4th player on your team, if you look at every scoreboard at the end of the game, the difference is minimal after all of the resource trading. Yeah you might have top kills on your team but it’s at the expense of the kills of your ally. It all evens out. The only missing and key data point is the damage inflicted by your 4th player, the throne. If you saw this data point you would see that the team that wins every game is the team whose throne did the most damage. Because that damage equates to more advantage than even the hero xp lost. In the strategy I explained above, you’re basically leveraging the throne damage to give you that instant significant advantage that tips the balance enough for you to snowball.
@@alcbaz Huh, interesting throne as 4th player is definitely an angle i never thought of i always thought the throne as a "last resort", good point there friend
i suggest a strategy grubby next game do this: rush mines + units of each type 1 + hero, then at the point u realise what strategy u need, add more units of that type u need, to push + upgrade them, basically u classically play the game the way its supposed to play
You need to learn when to tech to tier3. It costs way too much, so usually, right when your wave spawns, spent most your money on units and or upgrades, BUT NOT ALL, ensuring you have at least 100g the exact moment. that way, you have 60 secs to generate 350g (2mines give you a total of 6 g/s, so after 60 secs you have 360gold, so you can tech in time). Dont spent money on upgrading your wave or buying units when you do decide it's finally time for teching to tier3. Similar concept applies for 2nd or 3rd hero: it takes 30 secs to produce it, so you have about 70seconds of generating gold and a few seconds to think about it. You should have around 100g or so when the wave spawns, and next wave, you will have your hero. Also, always max units and items before the wave, and get upgrades during the wave march, unless you are defending the fort. Golden rule: max units and heroes before maxing upgrades, unless it's a super critical upgrade like bloodlust inner fire dispel ressurect for tauren frontline etc.
Grubby could try to play, review solar empire 2. Slow-paced RTS, I personally would like to see his opinions. I personally see lots of potential issues, but doing an honest review could make the game flow faster I think. One of the factions is not far out of beta state imo, but at the same time I think it has good potential.
I did a similar 3 mines opener for only to be called out by my somewhat toxic teammates. Ironically, the one teammate would straight out said I sucked got smashed at around 27 minutes in with no upgrades whatsoever, costing us the game (it gave the enemy a near untouched wave that stacked with the follow-up wave). Still unsure how DS is meant to be be played though for every position. I think early heroes is the way to go, but then you lose the zero-sum game against no-heroes openers. Where is Spirit of the Law when you need him?!?
Multiple things can be true at once: 1) Your teammates are toxic. 2) Your teammate is bad and does something like not have upgrades at 27 minutes. 3) Your 3 mine opener is terrible. Against an opponent of equal skill, you're going to lose mid at least several times if you go for 3 mines. Every time you lose mid, it costs your team a value equal to 6 gold mines lost. You would be far, far better off at least trading mid back and forth than losing it entirely by being down 3 mines' worth of gold. Early-ish hero is ok. But few heroes will have value in the first couple of rounds more than 500 gold of units. I would recommend getting hero at round 2 at earliest, but usually round 3 or 4.
@@thesustraveler Thanks for the respectful answer. While I could expand on what you said, after playing more games, I'm getting the feeling that piling the pressure on 2 mines and getting a free virtual 3rd mine by keeping the middle provides good results for me so far. Is the 3rd (and 4rth) comeback mechanics when you are down to your fort waiting for them to pay themselves back in order to eventually stack and push out?
@@XtReMz98 I would encourage you to look more from the math side because experience is somewhat faulty here - a lot of your opponents are also new, so you might feel going 2 mines is going well but maybe that's because your opponent went for 3 mines (which is an even worse strategy). A large part of this as well is that control of mid is hard to "feel". It's worth 6 mines, but spread over 6 people. But the economic advantage is certainly there. In starcraft 2 we have direct strike and it's been more competitive for longer, so the strategy is more refined. Both the math and higher ranked experience has shown that greeding for even a single mine is generally a really bad strategy until like minute 7-10. I'm not saying it translates directly to WC3, but it would suggest that you should need a pretty strong argument for going against years and years of high ranked experience from a sister game. In terms of when to get the third and fourth mine, you could use it as a comeback mechanic I suppose but that seems to be a pretty rare case. It means you guys have to be losing enough such that the extra gold can't let you push out and take center, but you're not losing hard enough that they're doing significant fortress damage over and over again. I would only ever get a third or fourth mine if my team is clearly ahead and we can see that the extra gold won't be sufficient to win the game (e.g. we don't have good ults). But that's rare.
@@thesustraveler Pretty informative post, highlighting potential biases I might have through outcome confirmation (validating my decision because of a victorious outcome, rather than through thorough analysis). Would you recommend I tried mineless starts, up to maybe r4? How about Grubby’s guide to DS which he stated to always get 1rst mine right away? When I start top, I usually go mineless now to maximize unit count to win r1 (or draw/lose on even strenght RNG). Lanchester law really swing a fight with these extra units early on, unless you get hard counter armor wise or debuffed.
@@XtReMz98 I mean this in truly the nicest way to Grubby because I'm a fan (obviously since I'm watching his vids) and he has good intentions at heart. But he's just not good at Direct Strike in a lot of ways. If you're familiar at all with SC2 units/graphics, I'd recommend watching a few videos on direct strike. It's not what it used to be in terms of active player count, but you can see from a couple years ago the tournament results. The basic strategy is that there is no magic round number you should add a mine. Minute 7-10 for SC2 is because that's where typically army deviation is high enough that it's possible for one side to "safely" add a mine. And, in a nutshell, that's the strategy. Only ever add a mine if you can "safely" do so. If at any point you add a mine and then lose mid because of it, you've made a mistake. You don't have to be perfect in your estimation here of what "safe" means. In fact, being flawed here is the best way to learn. If you thought to yourself "hell yeah that was one sided. I can add a mine and there's no way I lose next round" and then you lose after all, this is one of the absolute best ways to figure out what happened. Did you miscount your opponent's gold? Did they counter your troops? Change positioning? Did your teammate lose mid which led to you having to fight a little more than 1 army? It's really a great learnable moment. And one last thing about mining too early that people seem to forget, Grubby included: when you lose your fight and lose mid, you usually don't just lose it for yourself. You lose it for your team. What I mean by that is that once you lose your fight your opponent's units don't just vanish. They keep going and harass the next wave. Suddenly your teammate, which maybe was equal to their opponent without the leak, is on the back foot. They lose now because of it, which in turn causes the next person to be on the back foot. This can go on and on in a horrible cycle where your team normally would be on equal footing but instead loses every single fight because of that one earlier leak. The above isn't some wild fanfic or exaggeration of how it goes. This is basically every direct strike game, especially when one side mines too hard
@@thesustraveler the winrates disagree however also doing the simple math compared to old patch and old GM/Hero costs Hero = Nerfed all 4 GM's = buffed if this doesnt point you out the obvious and being told so by a top player then idk :shrug:
@@MethicalYT Sure, show the math then. Show me how losing mid for 5 minutes straight by spamming gold mines will help you get more gold and win. I can only hope this is satire. It's the dumbest strategy ever. And if you were a top player (you're not - only a moron would think that's a strategy), you'd realize the direct strike scene in WC3 is new and nooby. If you learned anything from SC2 direct strike which is far more mature and competitive, you would know that even getting a single mine early on is very risky/greedy and often will lose mid for a very long time.
I'm glad u cut down the "slow" parts. I like ur twitch streams but on youtube it was so boring to see every moment where u have to wait 20+sec in draft and co.
nah, that's way too much. 2nd lane can get away with getting 2 fast mines and a hero for wave 2, but getting a third mine early is asking to lose the game all by yourself.
i dont really like that whole mmr debate in the beginning. so childish. could've just mute the guy or smth if you dont like their idea instead of shaming each other for ultimately nothing while the 3rd player in the team is clearly showing their distaste to your elitism act.
Honestly true. The whole "i am the elite here" way of acting is so irritating especially with all those unsolicited advices. It's good to help each other and win the game yeah, but you don't do that to everybody you know? sometimes people just don't like being ordered around when they just want to have fun and play the game peacefully.
Ill just watch one more Direct strike video, then ill be done.
Except the guy is annoyingly yapping too much. I can umderstand why that guy told him to shut up.
Grubby is addicted to DS, and I'm addicted to watching Grubby play it. It's a deadly combo.
I started playing because of your videos. I used to play frozen throne on battle net when it first came out i 2003 or 2004 whenever it was. I also won a few comps on Australia when I was younger. Playing first strike brings back some nostalgia for me. I have 2 companies and a family but somehow I can find time for this game.
Carefull direct strike is addictive as F.
You have 6k salary right?
I actually did that yesterday, went full units and it stacked with ally kotg, no exp loss and almost took tower first 2 of my waves.
(Then they both went double gold mine tier 3 and we lost ours
He said resistant skin will prevent charm. It won't. Hero ults pierce magic immunity. It will prevent possession though :)
It's just a slip of tongue, ironically he stated just few minutes earlier that Hero ults do indeed pierce magic immunity at 18:15
Thank you for the infinite content
That RchHbIH thingy is read Jasnyj Jastreb. Last B read as P. bright hawk :)
26:41 ChadSeer as always. Looks like the creator loved Thrall.
I would have put him anti speell, block item.
really nice to see your joy while playin
i like this variant of direct strike very much, i played over 3k games of the original and can feel your adiction^^
to the 3 gold rush:
i would just skip gold for a clear reason
conquering mid is important, but espacially in the early mostly matchup decided
to go later for the mines doesnt made sense considering that a normal game (original) goes around 15-20 min
honestly its more harmful to drag the fight and stack your wave into another than letting the early waves run into the tower
(no matter your plan, around wave 4-5 you need an army)
hitting in wave 4-5 with t2 units (ideally counter ones) and a full eco helps your team alot more than investing in a negative matchup for the sake of "helping"
if someone wonder why wave 4-5 is so important, thats normally the threshold when the enemy army can really destroy the bunker/tower if you have just a hero as example, can differ in WC
if someone insist that you skip without plan eco (in a negative matchup, a positive is quite pointless) ask how the gold would win your lane now, maybe they know something always worth investigating (very often i hear things like "build units" or "go 2/2 upgrades" with 2-5 units)
Loving this
Grubby u always seem surprised when you win. There’s a common strategy in Tug’o’war that if applied to DS would win you every game. It’s quite simple; u allow enemy to attack your throne by reducing your spends, deliberately so they over commit all their resources, then once your throne has defended against their stacked push, you mass rush siege units and take their throne with your own counter-stack and they have minimal resource to counter. This in tug’o’war is the equivalent of releasing the rope slightly to let your opponent get over confident to create a window of opportunity to build fast momentum.
No
While this is true remember controlling the middle give you more income so when the stacks fail to finish up the game now the opponents have more resources to essentially finish up the game ending with your loss
@@darkerrex1442 yeah true mate but ultimately the winner of DS isn’t about resource control at all, it’s about who uses their throne to inflict the most damage. The throne is the 4th player on your team, if you look at every scoreboard at the end of the game, the difference is minimal after all of the resource trading. Yeah you might have top kills on your team but it’s at the expense of the kills of your ally. It all evens out. The only missing and key data point is the damage inflicted by your 4th player, the throne. If you saw this data point you would see that the team that wins every game is the team whose throne did the most damage. Because that damage equates to more advantage than even the hero xp lost. In the strategy I explained above, you’re basically leveraging the throne damage to give you that instant significant advantage that tips the balance enough for you to snowball.
@@alcbaz Huh, interesting throne as 4th player is definitely an angle i never thought of i always thought the throne as a "last resort", good point there friend
This mod has MMR and matchmaking?
It do. W3Campions baby
Level 27 in 3 weeks. "I am not addicted" 😂
I would get back to w3 but I know myself. I am addicted.
7:20 Grubby types ЯсныйЯстреб using english keyboard
my eyes:
O_o
i want more grubster direct strike! Strike those videos directly into youtube!
i suggest a strategy grubby next game do this: rush mines + units of each type 1 + hero, then at the point u realise what strategy u need, add more units of that type u need, to push + upgrade them, basically u classically play the game the way its supposed to play
These things are addictive
Love it, thanks for the direct strike.
Хорошо затащил катку Кексу!
pretty much u have 3 specialization options: upgrade units, buy items for hero, or maximize units without upgrades
Finally some real wc3 players, feel the toxicity 😈
You need to learn when to tech to tier3. It costs way too much, so usually, right when your wave spawns, spent most your money on units and or upgrades, BUT NOT ALL, ensuring you have at least 100g the exact moment. that way, you have 60 secs to generate 350g (2mines give you a total of 6 g/s, so after 60 secs you have 360gold, so you can tech in time). Dont spent money on upgrading your wave or buying units when you do decide it's finally time for teching to tier3. Similar concept applies for 2nd or 3rd hero: it takes 30 secs to produce it, so you have about 70seconds of generating gold and a few seconds to think about it. You should have around 100g or so when the wave spawns, and next wave, you will have your hero.
Also, always max units and items before the wave, and get upgrades during the wave march, unless you are defending the fort. Golden rule: max units and heroes before maxing upgrades, unless it's a super critical upgrade like bloodlust inner fire dispel ressurect for tauren frontline etc.
Such a troll sometime, Grubby :)
hell yeah lets go!
we lost him bois, he is now so deep he is starting to greed with 3 mines
Awesome !
for 2nd lane, going 2 mines first then hero then units seems feasible. you skip wave 1 which would reset anyway for lane 2
Love you grubby
Grubby could try to play, review solar empire 2. Slow-paced RTS, I personally would like to see his opinions. I personally see lots of potential issues, but doing an honest review could make the game flow faster I think. One of the factions is not far out of beta state imo, but at the same time I think it has good potential.
Thumbnail grubby high off the unholy frenzy
Did he do “ideal” unit selection for DS video? Or tier list
I don't think so, but Grubby is nowhere near good enough to make any sort of list you should trust.
Grubb started to swear more, it is Direct strike fault ?
Its DOTA. That game left its mark
Silencio, ya empezó mi novela
actually won cuz that warden didnt respawn at the end there when your fs sniped it LOL
Grubbster i love ya content. I'm a 70% win rate DS and I host. I love your strats but I stg i have the answer to victory and I'll play ya any day
Grubby thanks.
Please upload 1vs1 games please 😢
Would love Grubby to try Legion TD :>
7:59 drow is sucking that far seer dry
I like direct strike
Nothing positive comes out of arguing, even if they started with the non strictly-positive remark "losing lane already".
OH 3HAET!
How does grubby get "random" games all the time? I've played like 20 games so far and every time it's "draft" mode..
next video wave 3 4 goldmine rush
I did a similar 3 mines opener for only to be called out by my somewhat toxic teammates. Ironically, the one teammate would straight out said I sucked got smashed at around 27 minutes in with no upgrades whatsoever, costing us the game (it gave the enemy a near untouched wave that stacked with the follow-up wave).
Still unsure how DS is meant to be be played though for every position. I think early heroes is the way to go, but then you lose the zero-sum game against no-heroes openers. Where is Spirit of the Law when you need him?!?
Multiple things can be true at once:
1) Your teammates are toxic.
2) Your teammate is bad and does something like not have upgrades at 27 minutes.
3) Your 3 mine opener is terrible.
Against an opponent of equal skill, you're going to lose mid at least several times if you go for 3 mines. Every time you lose mid, it costs your team a value equal to 6 gold mines lost. You would be far, far better off at least trading mid back and forth than losing it entirely by being down 3 mines' worth of gold.
Early-ish hero is ok. But few heroes will have value in the first couple of rounds more than 500 gold of units. I would recommend getting hero at round 2 at earliest, but usually round 3 or 4.
@@thesustraveler Thanks for the respectful answer. While I could expand on what you said, after playing more games, I'm getting the feeling that piling the pressure on 2 mines and getting a free virtual 3rd mine by keeping the middle provides good results for me so far.
Is the 3rd (and 4rth) comeback mechanics when you are down to your fort waiting for them to pay themselves back in order to eventually stack and push out?
@@XtReMz98 I would encourage you to look more from the math side because experience is somewhat faulty here - a lot of your opponents are also new, so you might feel going 2 mines is going well but maybe that's because your opponent went for 3 mines (which is an even worse strategy). A large part of this as well is that control of mid is hard to "feel". It's worth 6 mines, but spread over 6 people. But the economic advantage is certainly there.
In starcraft 2 we have direct strike and it's been more competitive for longer, so the strategy is more refined. Both the math and higher ranked experience has shown that greeding for even a single mine is generally a really bad strategy until like minute 7-10. I'm not saying it translates directly to WC3, but it would suggest that you should need a pretty strong argument for going against years and years of high ranked experience from a sister game.
In terms of when to get the third and fourth mine, you could use it as a comeback mechanic I suppose but that seems to be a pretty rare case. It means you guys have to be losing enough such that the extra gold can't let you push out and take center, but you're not losing hard enough that they're doing significant fortress damage over and over again.
I would only ever get a third or fourth mine if my team is clearly ahead and we can see that the extra gold won't be sufficient to win the game (e.g. we don't have good ults). But that's rare.
@@thesustraveler Pretty informative post, highlighting potential biases I might have through outcome confirmation (validating my decision because of a victorious outcome, rather than through thorough analysis).
Would you recommend I tried mineless starts, up to maybe r4? How about Grubby’s guide to DS which he stated to always get 1rst mine right away? When I start top, I usually go mineless now to maximize unit count to win r1 (or draw/lose on even strenght RNG). Lanchester law really swing a fight with these extra units early on, unless you get hard counter armor wise or debuffed.
@@XtReMz98 I mean this in truly the nicest way to Grubby because I'm a fan (obviously since I'm watching his vids) and he has good intentions at heart. But he's just not good at Direct Strike in a lot of ways.
If you're familiar at all with SC2 units/graphics, I'd recommend watching a few videos on direct strike. It's not what it used to be in terms of active player count, but you can see from a couple years ago the tournament results.
The basic strategy is that there is no magic round number you should add a mine. Minute 7-10 for SC2 is because that's where typically army deviation is high enough that it's possible for one side to "safely" add a mine.
And, in a nutshell, that's the strategy. Only ever add a mine if you can "safely" do so. If at any point you add a mine and then lose mid because of it, you've made a mistake.
You don't have to be perfect in your estimation here of what "safe" means. In fact, being flawed here is the best way to learn. If you thought to yourself "hell yeah that was one sided. I can add a mine and there's no way I lose next round" and then you lose after all, this is one of the absolute best ways to figure out what happened.
Did you miscount your opponent's gold? Did they counter your troops? Change positioning? Did your teammate lose mid which led to you having to fight a little more than 1 army? It's really a great learnable moment.
And one last thing about mining too early that people seem to forget, Grubby included: when you lose your fight and lose mid, you usually don't just lose it for yourself. You lose it for your team. What I mean by that is that once you lose your fight your opponent's units don't just vanish. They keep going and harass the next wave. Suddenly your teammate, which maybe was equal to their opponent without the leak, is on the back foot. They lose now because of it, which in turn causes the next person to be on the back foot. This can go on and on in a horrible cycle where your team normally would be on equal footing but instead loses every single fight because of that one earlier leak.
The above isn't some wild fanfic or exaggeration of how it goes. This is basically every direct strike game, especially when one side mines too hard
Is peaking at their base never worth it?
if you only knew how much I miss for yours games of Warcraft III
bro, let grubby has his fun, sooner or later , it will get bored :) there's nth wrong to try something new
Personally going to unsub soon if the Direct Strike keeps coming
Then unsub. Not like youre being held hostage. The man just makes vids that he finds fun.@c0nstipat3d
@@c0nstipat3d🤣
Should push for 4 gold mines and go hero last in the current meta
If you want to throw, sure
@@thesustraveler the winrates disagree however
also doing the simple math compared to old patch and old GM/Hero costs
Hero = Nerfed
all 4 GM's = buffed
if this doesnt point you out the obvious and being told so by a top player then idk :shrug:
@@MethicalYT Sure, show the math then. Show me how losing mid for 5 minutes straight by spamming gold mines will help you get more gold and win.
I can only hope this is satire. It's the dumbest strategy ever.
And if you were a top player (you're not - only a moron would think that's a strategy), you'd realize the direct strike scene in WC3 is new and nooby. If you learned anything from SC2 direct strike which is far more mature and competitive, you would know that even getting a single mine early on is very risky/greedy and often will lose mid for a very long time.
Hi Kimmy :)
Ngl i kinda miss grubby play 1v1. This new game seems good but i think its getting too much attention
lol trash talk is real
I'm glad u cut down the "slow" parts.
I like ur twitch streams but on youtube it was so boring to see every moment where u have to wait 20+sec in draft and co.
I normally rush 4 mines then build a hero
nah, that's way too much. 2nd lane can get away with getting 2 fast mines and a hero for wave 2, but getting a third mine early is asking to lose the game all by yourself.
@zachariastsampasidis8880 for now I got 10 wins from 12 games with this strat it works for me
Ngl if I was playing with Grubby I would've told him to stfu too. He's really way too chatty. :D
It's a game dude
@@halfmnn ?
Thanks Grubby for infinite games that I lost cause teamamtes went 3-4 mines
i dont really like that whole mmr debate in the beginning.
so childish. could've just mute the guy or smth if you dont like their idea instead of shaming each other for ultimately nothing while the 3rd player in the team is clearly showing their distaste to your elitism act.
Honestly true.
The whole "i am the elite here" way of acting is so irritating especially with all those unsolicited advices.
It's good to help each other and win the game yeah, but you don't do that to everybody you know? sometimes people just don't like being ordered around when they just want to have fun and play the game peacefully.
@Medilia-ec6xx yes and no. It's a competitive game which requires team work.
Stop playing direct strike PLEASE stick to the strategy games sir
xd
Nope
First
first?
I kinda hope this dies down soon, I miss Grubby playing the original game.
Purge the heretic
Let him enjoy the custom map
Nah it's fresh and fun, and it's nice he's not just pwning like he does in 1v1.
He will def go back soon lol
If I'm being honest, Direct Strike is incredibly boring to watch