Your comment reminds me of a guy I worked with. He had a '37 Chevy street rod he sold to his nephew. The car had a 350 in it. The kid pulled the 350 and slipped in one of the 4.2 Twin Cam inline sixes GM built in the 2000s. He was at a meet up one time and somebody asked how come he put the 4.2 in it. His answer was any idiot can stick an LS in. That aside if the owner wanted to go big power, then swap an LS in. The 304 was turd from day one. Low compression, small valves, two barrel, smog cam and possibly in this case an air pump with lines to the exhaust manifolds. With an LS there so many options as far as heads, intakes etc that building big power isn't a problem. I take it the owner here just wants a little more punch. One thing I think sould have been done is run an extra oil line to supply more oil to the #4 and #5 main bearing. The oil galley on the right side intersects the lifter bores and the feed from the galley intersects the cam bore before it gets to the mains. The oiling system is fine for street use but any thing beyond that that involves high RPM it falls short. I wonder if there is enough meat in the webs to add a second feed line to the main bearings from the left hand oil galley on these engines.
the 304 was a good basic v8. it was the goto for amc in all there cars and jeeps. yes they are not a drag monster, but they are reliable, run on bug juice, and are not picky on what type/viscosity oil is put in them.
@@mpetersen6 = all = All = ALL --- AMC cams were identical in ALL (all) AMC V-8 engines (except the 401ci ) / 290 / 304 / 343 / 360 / 390 / ALL had identical LIFT & DURATION !!! ( except the 401 AMC - V-8) there was No-Such-Thing as a AMC "smog CAM" unless there was possibly a "CALIFORNICATION" cam that I am un-aware of as a Parts-Manager Just " IMHO" COOP ...
@@pmscalisi Agreed. The one good thing about an LS swap is it's pretty much a given you can parts if you need them. I still think they should have decked the block to bump the compression up to 9.5 or 10. The heads they used will fit 343s up to 401s.
I glad you stayed with the 304 motor, my grandfather is smiling up in heaven! He worked for AMC at the Kenosha plant. I can't wait to see this car done!!!!!!!!!!!
@@spicydeath82 That's awesome! My grandfather he worked on engines. I know he did valve work on cylinder heads, my brother has some of his tools. Like the stones to grind valves plus other hand tools. Maybe he did the valve job on your Gremlin, that's a cool thought! I'm glad to hear this story!!!
Man it sucks not to see Mike on the show anymore. 😕 I was watching the show from before he started and it was cool seeing him every weekend. Regardless though, I'll keep watching the show and love this build on the AMC. 👌
So refreshing to see something other than the more regular manufacturers getting some love. Being from the UK we didn't get any of the big American V8's other than in Jensens really but AMC stuff is almost unknown, so genuinely excited to see this rebuild.
@@bigboreracing356 then why you here? And on every other one crying why it's not a Chevy. For it being nothing special it's special to you. Your wasting allot of your time crying in the comments..LMFAO
@@bigboreracing356 my Chevy Camaro was a Pos had to sell it it kept breaking down. It was a 2001 best thing I ever did that crap box was nothing but a money pit.
What great timing for this episode! We literally just started the build process on both a 304 AND 360 AMC for our 79 AMX project! Thanks for the tips guys!
Y'all definitely threw some serious budget at this little 304 rebuild, just a weeeee bit wilder than most anyone good do but at least now we know the potential! ;)
That little Hornet body with a healthy 304 would definitely be somewhat of a sleeper. Mainly because most people don't know what it is. A full boogie 360 would make a grown man cry.
I would 100% bet that Mr. Forman knows the answers to the questions Pat is asking him, but the delivery they are giving for the What and more importantly WHY of the topics is REALLY useful for us that don't know. well done.
@@trainsbangsandautomobiles824 The compression being so low is something very interesting to us as well. Would love to see them chime in on why they stayed so low. The "Shelf" piston they used keeps it in the lower compression ratio, but there are ways to bump the compression up at least a bit even with those less than great "stock replacement pistons"
It's pretty cool to see engines like this get the attention they deserve, this was a cool build. The only critique I have is why not up the compression a little since y'all were changing the pistons and heads anyway?
Right! There are always reasons someone may have and yet it still pains me to think of what could have been with a little more punch on the piston. Quite impressive results with such low compression.
337hp from a 304 (now 314) with 8.34:1. Pretty sweet stuff. But imagine a 401 stroked to a 436 (4.165 bore X 4 stroke) or bored 30 over to a 442 with 10.5. Now THAT is something I want to see you guys tackle.
Those little 304s wake up nicely with just a bit of love. Back in 1990 my buddy and I rebuilt the 304 in his '79 AMX. That thing would not even peel out on gravel (no joke) when we tore it down. We put headers, edelbrock cam/intake/carb set and a 0.010" clean up bore on it. With a rebuilt transmission and 2200 stall converter, that little car would leave a nice set of double stripes on the pavement afterward. 30 years later he still has that car!
Doesn't need it. This is probably the best Street Engine they've done in a while. AMC, outside the Jeep I feel, doesn't get the Respect from the average Car guy that they should.
The only way I could see this being a good thing is if they’re going to throw some boost at it but besides that it doesn’t seem anymore then it would’ve been factory.
@@ChrisOnez718 9.5:1 comp ratio can still be easily boosted. You do have a valid point with keeping it closer to what a normal person on a budget would do though.
These engines were not honed in the main bearing bores. But if a block was found to have a slight bore mis-alignment they would be honed off line by hand. The pistons were not one size fits all. After the cylinder bores were honed they were measured and the size denoted by letters A-F iirc. The pistons were also sized A-F. The difference between each letter was .0002". One needs to remember holding really tight tolerance with 1960s era manufacturing technology on a production line is extremely difficult. The cam bearings on these engines, in fact all AMC engines were installed undersized and line bored in place the same time as the main bearing bores in the block.
According to the internet a 1970-71 AMC 304 gross rating of 210 hp and a 1972 AMC 304 SAE rating 150 hp was measured with the same engine combination...just the rating at the flywheel was measured without any drive accessories(1970-71)...and then with full accessories and full exhaust -(1972). Keeping 8.3:1 compression will allow this engine to run great on as low as 87 octane and if someone wants to boost it or put a small shot of nitrous to it later it will work well, too. This will be a great street engine and best of all they used the original engine from the vehicle. If the wanted they could have made way more power but this is what those Detroit Muscle guys asked for. Solid build.
just a NOTE: FYI: the 1970 / 1971 AMC V-8 engines had smaller chamber HEADS than the 1972 & NEWER Engines the 1970 / early 1971 V-8 Heads ( BIG valve or 'small' VALVE ) had 50cc chambers the 1972 & NEWER AMC V-8 Heads were 58+cc's thus a different H-P rating due to compression ratio COOP ...............................
Depending on the year and engine size, AMC also used red, Gold (290's), Copper (343's), Forum blue (287), Turquoise www.amarkamc.com/category.sc;jsessionid=9E1598604EA239AD4D51A832DD6B5813.p3plqscsfapp003?categoryId=39
AMC was an underrated brand, but they came from such a good line; Nash. Unfortunately, people who buy them depend so much on their indestructability that they don't take care of them. They change oil, tires and brakes, then just drive them into the ground.
@@JesusIsTheLightAndway My Dad bought Rambles! He had 50 something American (bathtub), 63 Classic wagon, 67 Rebel, 70 AMC Hornet and they all had 232 6cylinders mostly 3 sp on the column.
Interesting build on a 304 AMC engine, you went farther than most of us have the finances to do. I really would have liked to see the AMC 290 engine build from a back yard stance. Older brother had the 1968 Rambler American with a 290 and 4 speed he bought it used,. It had the 3.15 open rear gears, a fun car to drive. More could have been done with very little money to get 275 horse or more from the 290. Looking back, the big valve heads from the 343, and 4 barrel carb would swap right in, a set of 3.73 rear gears would really have made the 290 come alive. I know you put a lot of time and money into the 304, I'm just not that big of a 304 fan, it reminds me of Chrysler's 318, just a good passenger car engine. Thanks for doing an AMC engine.
Awesome just had the engine machine work done on our 390 for our ‘68 AMX going with the same heads can’t wait to see the performance on both our car and this one!!!
Wow, well done and I am so happy the original engine is going back in rather than another unimaginative LS swap. I do wonder what an extra half a point of compression would have gotten you. Still that engine isn't stressed at all and should last a good long time.
Good on Pat for making sure the next generation is getting all his years of knowledge. A lot of the older generation seem to just do their job and not bother with young mechanics who need their advice.
One year out of high school bought a 1974 Gremlin X with the 304. Tried to order the 401 but the dealer wouldn't let me. One thing I have to say though had the Jeep rear axle with positraction, also came with the Chrysler torqueflite transmission both of them bulletproof. All I did was put on a set of headers and Cherry Bomb mufflers, remember them? and wider tires, I went through more rear tires and you can imagine, lot of fun. All I will say is the brand new 74 Corvettes could not beat me in a race. Sadly put it into a telephone pole, drag racing of course. A lot of fun while I had it though.
Rambler/AMC was always underrated! Starting from. NASH, which was a popular car back then they didn't get the respect they deserved. My Dad bought a lot of Ramblers and loved them.
Injection can be such an improvement on any engine, tunability and economy, really like it on my jeep, off-road use it cures numerous issues caused by operating carburetors that are bouncing around or at extreme angles
I’m glad your doing an amc motor. My dad has an 304 in his 1969 amc amx but we are going to rebuild his 390 and put it back in front of the good old four speed.
don't confuse seeing something happen on video and think its real time,this took months of work. young people crave instant gratification but don't realize nothing happens instantly,its the sad truth.
AMC engines were so underrated! My Dad had several Ramblers/AMC cars w/232 6cylinders. He put a lot of miles on them. He never owned a V8, only 6 cylinders, 232s, 225 slants and a couple of V6s.
LS swaps are done because they work. Good power. Good packaging. Huge aftermarket. Can be very budget friendly. Can't say the same for a modern Hemi or Coyote.
I agree Chevy the cheapest way to make power but to some it's not about being the cheapest. It's about keeping what it came with. Nothing wrong with that.
FINALLY an AMC build! But guys...get it together! You forgot a key tiny nylon piece that COULD end up killing your (any AMC) engine. There's a small hole (~3/16") on the underside of the oil pickup (near the large opening) where you SHOULD put a nylon spacer button. This button prevents the pickup from sucking the oil pan up against it, and starving the engine from oil. I can see it's missing as you show the installation of the oil pan. Basic AMC stuff! More involved, but a good idea anyways is an oil transfer line from the front oil distribution galley to the rear passenger-side lifter galley to help even out oil delivery to the rear bearings, if you're planning on pushing it hard. I've been an AMC fanatic since 1979, when I bought my (1st car!) scrapyard-ready Javelin 343 Auto for $275, which I STILL OWN TODAY. I now have a built but-not-crazy 401, 4-speed with a 3:15 posi that ran high 12's BEFORE I put in a hydraulic roller cam, and I take home show trophies........ I have to agree with mindeloman's comment regarding color.......EN-66 is one of the nicest engine colors....
Especially if they kept the hardened gear on the msd, and a stock style non-hardened gear in the cam, gonna eat that gear alive, especially if they didn't throw the little break in grease on the gears on assembly
I was looking forward to the promised "I want to put it on the dyno before we do anything to see how much driveline loss there is". To bad they weren't able/didn't run it on the dyno before the rebuild. It would have also been nice to see how much power was being robbed by that 70's era AC compressor.
AMC, YES. I've had a 360 in my cj7 for 20 years. Very reliable. People said put a small block chevy in it. Glad I didn't. Rebuilt it myself. Quadrajet carb, all the power I need.
Had a 77 Hornet station wagon, the factory motor died on me. Bought a short block an completely built it my way. 650 4bbl holly, dual plenum aluminum intake, head work, and headers. Duel exhaust,with turbo mufflers. Towing a camper I got 18.9 mpg, double stock mileage. Ran 13.1 in quarter mile.. I really enjoyed that car.
Just love AMCs, unfortunately they are almost unheard of in my country That's an impressive amount of power from such a low compression build. Can't wait to see the Javelin finished
AMC was one of my favourite body styles as a youngster , I always thought the base engine was a 390 CID, while the Javelin was a 290. That setup will make that a real nice engine for the AMC though, enjoyed, cheers!
I wish they would build a 401.AMC had 2 engine groups. Prior to 1970 the V8 were 290-343-390. 1970 cu in went to 304-360-390. 1971 the 390 went to 401. The exterior dimensions of all the V8s were the same. That why it was so easy to drop a 401 into a Gremlin X 304. I would love them to play with a Gremlin. LOL
I was taught about 55 years ago to not lube bearing surfaces all the way to the parting line. Bearings don't need it for assembly, and it could allow the lubricant to squeeze out onto the mating surfaces. If you're actually concerned with tolerances to the ten-thousandth of an inch in bearing diameter, this will throw off the OD as well as help allow the cap to walk now that you've greased it up.
Pat you are an OG , Master Kung Fu ,torgue wrenching , heavyweight champ of air induction ; guru of all controlled explosions inside of a Swiss cheese looking metal container. Go speed Go
Man that was impressive for 8.3 CR! Now for 5-8 lbs boost! Ha ha would be interesting to see the numbers but that 304 is healthy and will really get that Javelin moving
You actually run into some interesting problems with the AMC 304, especially right now. As they state in the video they used a .060 over piston, those are almost impossible to get ahold of right now. We know, because we're building a .060 over 304 right now for our 79 AMX :) Sealed Power is sold out and won't be back in stock for 2-3 months and the only other option is from UEM and those are also a factory stock replacement unit around 8.5 : 1. The only other other option really is to go for a set of custom pistons at about twice the price. But, when you are throwing $5500 in parts at this build, why not spend an extra $300 on some better pistions?
In case you guys are still wondering why there was no whiz-bang high end pistons, rods, etc, put onto the AMC. Programs like Power Nation rely on promotional freebies. AMC high end parts are usually custom, limited run, and are not the kind of thing you get as a promotional based sponsorship. 304s and 290s make great forced induction platforms. The stock cast internals can hold to some pretty big numbers if you keep the detonation at bay. Turbocharged 290s and 304s are cheap and easy to make. The thick walls allow you to run some crazy boost. Knew a guy who was pushing 35PSI with stock cast internals. Won't even say the HP but that was a damned fast car. As a long time AMC guy we are plagued by lack of modernity and modern engineered parts that the GM and Dodge crowd can easily acquire via back ported and custom engineering because of bulk sales numbers. Even eddelbrock screwed the AMC guys with warped, out of spec intake manifolds and low-effort aluminum heads that really didn't offer much flow wise beyond the ported iron dog-legs, except for the heat transfer and weight savings of aluminum. I still miss my AMCs but the frustration of trying to get quality high end parts was maddening. Fun history, AMC made multiport injection engines back in the early 60s an an option.
It’d take 85 without too much timing. It seems the senior builder wanted to limit the timing in the video as well. Should be super streetable and non temperamental.
Every time I watch these guys put together an engine I always wish that I'd had the equipment they have when I was doing a lot of this. I heard AMC heads flow pretty good themselves. I would have liked to see a comparison between stockers and the aluminum heads.
Amc dog leg heads are great flowing from the factory. I have a set on a 360 that makes over 400hp with minimal upgrades. 9.5 compression and a 268 cam. Makes my cj7 move pretty good.
@@bryceocain5234 Thanks for confirming what I've heard......if you inspect the AMC heads they seem to have the better attributes of both SBC heads and Mopar 340's. AMC held their own with the Mustangs and Camaros when they were racing in the TransAm series. I know that they were pretty special breathed-on heads but, hey, so were the other guys. I wish we had a series like that now.
@@josephfigueroa3527 Exactly maybe 25 more hp...A blow through supercharger with the 8.3 CR and 5-7 lbs of boost on this engine would bring it to 400 easily
Ensure the viewers that the cam needs to be broken in at around 2000 RPM for about 20 minutes. I love watching a show with all brand new parts, because you have many sponsors. Anytime you install new cam bushings with a new cam and new lifters, if this isn’t done, it’s a waste of healthy cash. It’s a valuable thing to know for many reasons. Thanks!
You guys are so lucky to have a great job , I love what you guys do, keep them on the road and if ever need a tech , I would love to work with you guys
I love the comment about how bad the condition was. I wish i foind any cars from tbe 70's with that little of gunk in it. Just the condition of the entire car ment it was taken care of...other then they used pennz oil. No rust or roof rot. Iy was kept in a garage. Its a survivor. I wish you woukd have used tbe original heads and intake system. They where knkwn to get the same power oit of the 401,390 go package and used the same heads.
Howdy PowerNation, several questions: 1) if you are BUYING Pistons - why Why WHY specify 8.3:1 Compression Ratio ? when 9.5:1 or even 10:1 CR would respond so WELL ??? 2) CAM - you did spec a bit MORE duration on your Exhaust - why not a smidgen MORE lift on the EXHAUST Lobe too ? AMC's like a bit more LIFT & Duration on the Exhaust side 3) I guess you could have made up for the "EVEN" Lift on the INT & EHX by specifying a half set of 1.7:1 Roller Rocker arms for the Exhaust Valves (but you didn't) 4) Aluminum Heads could have used any Any ANY Sized VALVES - why go so BIG that you had to "NOTCH" your 3.810" Block & SHROUD the bejesus out of the Head Flow ??? 5) I did NOT see the push-in THIMBLE / SPACER / BUTTON get placed in the 1/4" hole in the OIL PICK-UP Tube Base (that keeps the spacing between the OIL PAN & Pick-Up Tube 6) CORRECTION = ONE (1) of your Head Bolts does indeed enter the Water Jacket = FYI 7) Even with the AIR-GAP Intake Manifold - you probably should have installed a Valley Pan GASKET to control PVC Oil Control Thanks for WORKING on an AMC V-8 Engine = it is NICE to see AMERICAN MOTORS getting some "ink" COOP ...........................................
Powernation: We decided to keep the AMC original
AMC Community: *Slowly puts pitch forks and torches away*
Your comment reminds me of a guy I worked with. He had a '37 Chevy street rod he sold to his nephew. The car had a 350 in it. The kid pulled the 350 and slipped in one of the 4.2 Twin Cam inline sixes GM built in the 2000s. He was at a meet up one time and somebody asked how come he put the 4.2 in it. His answer was any idiot can stick an LS in.
That aside if the owner wanted to go big power, then swap an LS in. The 304 was turd from day one. Low compression, small valves, two barrel, smog cam and possibly in this case an air pump with lines to the exhaust manifolds. With an LS there so many options as far as heads, intakes etc that building big power isn't a problem. I take it the owner here just wants a little more punch. One thing I think sould have been done is run an extra oil line to supply more oil to the #4 and #5 main bearing. The oil galley on the right side intersects the lifter bores and the feed from the galley intersects the cam bore before it gets to the mains. The oiling system is fine for street use but any thing beyond that that involves high RPM it falls short. I wonder if there is enough meat in the webs to add a second feed line to the main bearings from the left hand oil galley on these engines.
LOL
@@mpetersen6 I think he was after smoothness and that I-6 rumble
the 304 was a good basic v8. it was the goto for amc in all there cars and jeeps. yes they are not a drag monster, but they are reliable, run on bug juice, and are not picky on what type/viscosity oil is put in them.
@@mpetersen6 = all = All = ALL --- AMC cams were identical
in ALL (all) AMC V-8 engines (except the 401ci )
/ 290 / 304 / 343 / 360 / 390 / ALL had identical LIFT & DURATION !!! ( except the 401 AMC - V-8)
there was No-Such-Thing as a AMC "smog CAM" unless there was possibly a "CALIFORNICATION" cam that I am un-aware of as a Parts-Manager
Just " IMHO"
COOP
...
Thank you for rebuilding the AMC instead of putting a LS. I’m really enjoying this build.
The LS stuff has become boring.
Still a reliable swap, however
I completely agree. It's amazing how you can take old but usable blocks and breathe fire through them again.
@@pmscalisi
Agreed. The one good thing about an LS swap is it's pretty much a given you can parts if you need them. I still think they should have decked the block to bump the compression up to 9.5 or 10. The heads they used will fit 343s up to 401s.
I’m considering swapping my 78 Cherokee to a LS but also wanting to rebuild my Amc360 😅
Thank you for spending 10 times as much money to have less power and less reliability 👍
I glad you stayed with the 304 motor, my grandfather is smiling up in heaven! He worked for AMC at the Kenosha plant. I can't wait to see this car done!!!!!!!!!!!
ha, that's where my gremlin came from, found the build paper under the sound deadening in the interior.
@@spicydeath82 That's awesome! My grandfather he worked on engines. I know he did valve work on cylinder heads, my brother has some of his tools. Like the stones to grind valves plus other hand tools. Maybe he did the valve job on your Gremlin, that's a cool thought! I'm glad to hear this story!!!
I have a few ambassadors made in kenosha, your grandfather probably made them
Did your Granddad work at the Main or Lakefront plant? My Dad worked Plant Security so he worked both.
Why waste your time and money on a 304 AMC motor when you can get a 401 with more cubic inches for that price people
Glad you guys stayed with the 304 on that Javelin.. Well Done!
Buddy of mine had a bright yellow one with a 6 banger and a 100 watt cassette player back in high school. Long live the 70’s....
Love the 304 in my 1972 CJ5 - still going strong and reliably as ever
Man it sucks not to see Mike on the show anymore. 😕 I was watching the show from before he started and it was cool seeing him every weekend. Regardless though, I'll keep watching the show and love this build on the AMC. 👌
What happened to him?
@@J-W.- I'm not sure but since it's been several shows he hasn't been on, I'm assuming he's not with them anymore.
While I am sad to see Mike go, the new guy is growing on me.
What did y'all expect? AMC engines were tough as nails and made with a high nickel content. Glad you guys stuck with Rompin Rambler power!
Damn straight. Very underrated.
That is a unique and beautiful engine. I hate that the milodon pan was painted but the power sound and reliability make up for that. Love these shows.
Nice to see a engine rebuilt that I haven't done. Notching the block for valve cl. brings back memories of my 273 with 340 heads. Nice video!!
So refreshing to see something other than the more regular manufacturers getting some love. Being from the UK we didn't get any of the big American V8's other than in Jensens really but AMC stuff is almost unknown, so genuinely excited to see this rebuild.
I can’t recall seeing one here. They don’t seem to travel like the Fords and Chevy’s.
@@bigboreracing356 Then go watch something else!!!!
@@bigboreracing356 then why you here? And on every other one crying why it's not a Chevy. For it being nothing special it's special to you. Your wasting allot of your time crying in the comments..LMFAO
@@bigboreracing356 my Chevy Camaro was a Pos had to sell it it kept breaking down. It was a 2001 best thing I ever did that crap box was nothing but a money pit.
@@bigboreracing356 ps5 and xbox doesn't count. Lol. You do know all Chevy 305 and 350 are cast crank,rods and pistons right? Or did you not know that?
Yes thank you for keeping this engine in the build
What great timing for this episode! We literally just started the build process on both a 304 AND 360 AMC for our 79 AMX project! Thanks for the tips guys!
Y'all definitely threw some serious budget at this little 304 rebuild, just a weeeee bit wilder than most anyone good do but at least now we know the potential! ;)
@@LucoreAuto I was going to point you to this episode.
@@XA351GT definitely great timing! With our two AMC builds going now, will be very interesting to compare the results :)
That little Hornet body with a healthy 304 would definitely be somewhat of a sleeper. Mainly because most people don't know what it is. A full boogie 360 would make a grown man cry.
I would 100% bet that Mr. Forman knows the answers to the questions Pat is asking him, but the delivery they are giving for the What and more importantly WHY of the topics is REALLY useful for us that don't know. well done.
Good thing Dad was watching JR when he forgot the oil slinger....😂😂
Can't have a proper Sunday morning coffee with an engine episode ☕👍
That 304 is a great engine. Had one in a 1980 CJ-7. Carb, cam, intake and headers it went from Dog to Hot!
That's some really impressive power from a 304! Especially when you consider the fact that it has such a low static compression ratio.
And with Aluminum heads which tend to need about an extra point to max out. I bet this would run all day on 85 octane Wyoming gas at sea level.
Any old school AMC guys know how to boost compression on these things? Would like to see it at 10 to 1 or so, just for the hell of it.
+
The only reason I could see why they kept the comp so damn low is they plan on boost. Even then I would have at least went 9.0-1
@@trainsbangsandautomobiles824 The compression being so low is something very interesting to us as well. Would love to see them chime in on why they stayed so low. The "Shelf" piston they used keeps it in the lower compression ratio, but there are ways to bump the compression up at least a bit even with those less than great "stock replacement pistons"
Nice to see a old AMC in bigness get new life great job guys!!
Sorry I fat fingered. Engine get new life
It's pretty cool to see engines like this get the attention they deserve, this was a cool build.
The only critique I have is why not up the compression a little since y'all were changing the pistons and heads anyway?
Right! There are always reasons someone may have and yet it still pains me to think of what could have been with a little more punch on the piston.
Quite impressive results with such low compression.
337hp from a 304 (now 314) with 8.34:1. Pretty sweet stuff. But imagine a 401 stroked to a 436 (4.165 bore X 4 stroke) or bored 30 over to a 442 with 10.5. Now THAT is something I want to see you guys tackle.
Those little 304s wake up nicely with just a bit of love. Back in 1990 my buddy and I rebuilt the 304 in his '79 AMX. That thing would not even peel out on gravel (no joke) when we tore it down. We put headers, edelbrock cam/intake/carb set and a 0.010" clean up bore on it. With a rebuilt transmission and 2200 stall converter, that little car would leave a nice set of double stripes on the pavement afterward. 30 years later he still has that car!
Im happy they are building an AMC motor for the Javalin. But 8.3 to 1 compression ratio, wow could have bumped that up.
Doesn't need it. This is probably the best Street Engine they've done in a while. AMC, outside the Jeep I feel, doesn't get the Respect from the average Car guy that they should.
9-9.2 would be good. Can still use regular and get a good bump in power and fuel economy.
That was kind of silly to not turn that compression ratio up a little higher like maybe 10 or 11 :1
The only way I could see this being a good thing is if they’re going to throw some boost at it but besides that it doesn’t seem anymore then it would’ve been factory.
@@ChrisOnez718 9.5:1 comp ratio can still be easily boosted. You do have a valid point with keeping it closer to what a normal person on a budget would do though.
These engines were not honed in the main bearing bores. But if a block was found to have a slight bore mis-alignment they would be honed off line by hand. The pistons were not one size fits all. After the cylinder bores were honed they were measured and the size denoted by letters A-F iirc. The pistons were also sized A-F. The difference between each letter was .0002". One needs to remember holding really tight tolerance with 1960s era manufacturing technology on a production line is extremely difficult.
The cam bearings on these engines, in fact all AMC engines were installed undersized and line bored in place the same time as the main bearing bores in the block.
Pat Topolinski has forgotten more things than I know about engines. What a legend.
Guys , thank you ,thank you, thank gou. Just started a 77 CJ 5 Golden Eagle frame off resto with, you guessed it, a 304. Lots of great info.
According to the internet a 1970-71 AMC 304 gross rating of 210 hp and a 1972 AMC 304 SAE rating 150 hp was measured with the same engine combination...just the rating at the flywheel was measured without any drive accessories(1970-71)...and then with full accessories and full exhaust -(1972). Keeping 8.3:1 compression will allow this engine to run great on as low as 87 octane and if someone wants to boost it or put a small shot of nitrous to it later it will work well, too. This will be a great street engine and best of all they used the original engine from the vehicle. If the wanted they could have made way more power but this is what those Detroit Muscle guys asked for. Solid build.
just a NOTE:
FYI: the 1970 / 1971 AMC V-8 engines had smaller chamber HEADS than the 1972 & NEWER Engines
the 1970 / early 1971 V-8 Heads ( BIG valve or 'small' VALVE ) had 50cc chambers
the 1972 & NEWER AMC V-8 Heads were 58+cc's
thus a different H-P rating due to compression ratio
COOP
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I am so pumped you guys are building a 304! I have a 74 Javelin 360 4 speed and I know your tech tips will help! Love it!
tips are easy,have a big budget and do it right.this was a $5-7000 k rebuild
That’s awesome! Had several V8 Jeep’s including a 401 in a CJ7! I love the AMC motors!
I’ve got one in my CJ5 every time I drive her I got a smile.
AMC blue feels more right.
AMC turquoise paint ftw
Depending on the year and engine size, AMC also used red, Gold (290's), Copper (343's), Forum blue (287), Turquoise
www.amarkamc.com/category.sc;jsessionid=9E1598604EA239AD4D51A832DD6B5813.p3plqscsfapp003?categoryId=39
These 71 cj6 304 never rebuilt 485000 when I sold it ran like a top,never made enough revs to hurt itself 😁
I would agree except that AMC engines in cars with California emissions were red in 71 and 72, so I'm ok with that. I have one in my 72 Javelin.
@@reeferaddickt66 excellent info!!👌
AMC was an underrated brand, but they came from such a good line; Nash. Unfortunately, people who buy them depend so much on their indestructability that they don't take care of them. They change oil, tires and brakes, then just drive them into the ground.
They still take it tho
@@JesusIsTheLightAndway My Dad bought Rambles! He had 50 something American (bathtub), 63 Classic wagon, 67 Rebel, 70 AMC Hornet and they all had 232 6cylinders mostly 3 sp on the column.
Back in the 70's, they rarely even changed the oil. They waited for the oil light to come on, then they added some.
My first car was a 70 amc rebel sst with a 304. Absolutely love the 304. I still have the car
I love that they touch everything with their bare hands like there's no tomorrow!
Interesting build on a 304 AMC engine, you went farther than most of us have the finances to do. I really would have liked to see the AMC 290 engine build from a back yard stance. Older brother had the 1968 Rambler American with a 290 and 4 speed he bought it used,. It had the 3.15 open rear gears, a fun car to drive. More could have been done with very little money to get 275 horse or more from the 290. Looking back, the big valve heads from the 343, and 4 barrel carb would swap right in, a set of 3.73 rear gears would really have made the 290 come alive. I know you put a lot of time and money into the 304, I'm just not that big of a 304 fan, it reminds me of Chrysler's 318, just a good passenger car engine. Thanks for doing an AMC engine.
Bump compression and see what it runs. Impressive and easy build. 👍
It's always fun when you guys do something unusual. I'd love to see what you guys could do with a late 70s/early 80s Cutlass with the 260.
Turn it into a 260 c.i boat anchor.
Awesome just had the engine machine work done on our 390 for our ‘68 AMX going with the same heads can’t wait to see the performance on both our car and this one!!!
Wow, well done and I am so happy the original engine is going back in rather than another unimaginative LS swap. I do wonder what an extra half a point of compression would have gotten you. Still that engine isn't stressed at all and should last a good long time.
Well said.
Engine power is the only show left in this lineup I can stand watching. RIP Muscle Car, Xtreme, and Trucks
Good on Pat for making sure the next generation is getting all his years of knowledge. A lot of the older generation seem to just do their job and not bother with young mechanics who need their advice.
One year out of high school bought a 1974 Gremlin X with the 304. Tried to order the 401 but the dealer wouldn't let me. One thing I have to say though had the Jeep rear axle with positraction, also came with the Chrysler torqueflite transmission both of them bulletproof. All I did was put on a set of headers and Cherry Bomb mufflers, remember them? and wider tires, I went through more rear tires and you can imagine, lot of fun. All I will say is the brand new 74 Corvettes could not beat me in a race. Sadly put it into a telephone pole, drag racing of course. A lot of fun while I had it though.
Finnaly something that may take more brains than needed for rebuilding a Chevy 350
This video convinced me to save and rebuild my AMC 360 in my JEEP Wagoneer! We'll save that LS for another project.
Rambler/AMC was always underrated! Starting from. NASH, which was a popular car back then they didn't get the respect they deserved. My Dad bought a lot of Ramblers and loved them.
Injection can be such an improvement on any engine, tunability and economy, really like it on my jeep, off-road use it cures numerous issues caused by operating carburetors that are bouncing around or at extreme angles
One of my buddies in high school had that 304 in a gremlin and it could pull a wheelie, and I'm not kidding you.
What's his name Andy
I’m glad your doing an amc motor. My dad has an 304 in his 1969 amc amx but we are going to rebuild his 390 and put it back in front of the good old four speed.
Loved seeing that little AMC build. Strong runner also!
Didnt Detroit Muscle just yank this engine like yesterday?! Sweet turnaround, gang!
These are older episodes I believe, also build time and upload time are Definitely far apart
don't confuse seeing something happen on video and think its real time,this took months of work.
young people crave instant gratification but don't realize nothing happens instantly,its the sad truth.
I'm always amused that some people think these are new.
@@hawkdsl I'm always amazed that some people dont know that these are new 2021 episodes.
Finally an AMC mill. Would LOVE to see you guys build out an AMC 360 or a 401.
A 360 would be better would not do this to a 304 seems like a waste a money
AMC engines were so underrated! My Dad had several Ramblers/AMC cars
w/232 6cylinders. He put a lot of miles on them. He never owned a V8, only 6 cylinders, 232s, 225 slants and a couple of V6s.
100% AMC 👍 👍. Far too many LS swaps, nothing against that if that's what floats your boat but how about some originality?.
LS swaps are done because they work. Good power. Good packaging. Huge aftermarket. Can be very budget friendly. Can't say the same for a modern Hemi or Coyote.
I agree Chevy the cheapest way to make power but to some it's not about being the cheapest. It's about keeping what it came with. Nothing wrong with that.
That is great numbers from the baby AMC v8. Use the same parts on big brother 360 or even 401 and it should be a screamer!
SO stoked you kept the 304!
So happy you chose to keep the 304 and give it a good massage over
The Pro-Flo4 really is an awesome system. I recently installed one on my 1968 SBF 302 and wow, what a world of difference it made.
Dream job . I’m so jealous every part brand new out the box man it must be like Christmas every day for them guys at the shop .
FINALLY an AMC build! But guys...get it together! You forgot a key tiny nylon piece that COULD end up killing your (any AMC) engine. There's a small hole (~3/16") on the underside of the oil pickup (near the large opening) where you SHOULD put a nylon spacer button. This button prevents the pickup from sucking the oil pan up against it, and starving the engine from oil. I can see it's missing as you show the installation of the oil pan. Basic AMC stuff! More involved, but a good idea anyways is an oil transfer line from the front oil distribution galley to the rear passenger-side lifter galley to help even out oil delivery to the rear bearings, if you're planning on pushing it hard. I've been an AMC fanatic since 1979, when I bought my (1st car!) scrapyard-ready Javelin 343 Auto for $275, which I STILL OWN TODAY. I now have a built but-not-crazy 401, 4-speed with a 3:15 posi that ran high 12's BEFORE I put in a hydraulic roller cam, and I take home show trophies........ I have to agree with mindeloman's comment regarding color.......EN-66 is one of the nicest engine colors....
Praying they fixed the oil slot in the timing gear, they're all drilled about 10* off, starving the dizzy gear
Especially if they kept the hardened gear on the msd, and a stock style non-hardened gear in the cam, gonna eat that gear alive, especially if they didn't throw the little break in grease on the gears on assembly
No button on oil pickup, no intake pan,
I had an old Jeep CJ5 and it had a 304. It ran awesome
I was looking forward to the promised "I want to put it on the dyno before we do anything to see how much driveline loss there is". To bad they weren't able/didn't run it on the dyno before the rebuild. It would have also been nice to see how much power was being robbed by that 70's era AC compressor.
I scrolled down, looking for this comment!
With the York compressor it between 25-30 Hp!
AMC, YES. I've had a 360 in my cj7 for 20 years. Very reliable. People said put a small block chevy in it. Glad I didn't. Rebuilt it myself. Quadrajet carb, all the power I need.
Had a 77 Hornet station wagon, the factory motor died on me. Bought a short block an completely built it my way. 650 4bbl holly, dual plenum aluminum intake, head work, and headers. Duel exhaust,with turbo mufflers.
Towing a camper I got 18.9 mpg, double stock mileage. Ran 13.1 in quarter mile.. I really enjoyed that car.
🤣🤣
No you didn’t
Just love AMCs, unfortunately they are almost unheard of in my country
That's an impressive amount of power from such a low compression build. Can't wait to see the Javelin finished
You guys freaking rock , I can't get enough of Power Nation I would say I'm a bonified mechanic now !
Okay, Pat-please build a 401. Have one that I want to put in a Cherokee Chief. Great vid guys
Currently having a AMC 304 built for a Jeep. Great video, long live AMC!
You guys build a real sweet engine
Imagine what it would have been if you we’re running a bit more compression 😍😍👍👍
This is a really cool and unique build. But I'm really surprised they didn't get some pistons that would have added a little more compression.
I’m a Chevy man but I really enjoy builds of all makes- there’s always something to learn 👍
New episodes on the weekend for the win 🙌🏽🙌🏽
AMC was one of my favourite body styles as a youngster , I always thought the base engine was a 390 CID, while the Javelin was a 290. That setup will make that a real nice engine for the AMC though, enjoyed, cheers!
I wish they would build a 401.AMC had 2 engine groups. Prior to 1970 the V8 were 290-343-390. 1970 cu in went to 304-360-390. 1971 the 390 went to 401. The exterior dimensions of all the V8s were the same. That why it was so easy to drop a 401 into a Gremlin X 304. I would love them to play with a Gremlin. LOL
I was taught about 55 years ago to not lube bearing surfaces all the way to the parting line. Bearings don't need it for assembly, and it could allow the lubricant to squeeze out onto the mating surfaces. If you're actually concerned with tolerances to the ten-thousandth of an inch in bearing diameter, this will throw off the OD as well as help allow the cap to walk now that you've greased it up.
Pat you are an OG , Master Kung Fu ,torgue wrenching , heavyweight champ of air induction ; guru of all controlled explosions inside of a Swiss cheese looking metal container.
Go speed Go
Made 358 hp with one of these.stock stroke mild porting and a hyd roller cam set up.did some other upgrades ran great on a superflow dyno.
Thank you Thank you Thank you for building an AMC 304!!!
I have a pair of 343's, the bigger brother of the 304, in two of my AMX's. I'm using your blueprint to build mine. Good video of underrated AMC V8's.
Thanks for the update on the Pistons Rings Position
I’ve got the 304 in my 73 cj5. It’s only got 63k mikes on it. With a dui distributor and a 500 cfm carb it rips. It’s a good motor.
Man that was impressive for 8.3 CR! Now for 5-8 lbs boost! Ha ha would be interesting to see the numbers but that 304 is healthy and will really get that Javelin moving
Back in the 80’s I was in high school and bought an old jeep CJ with a 304. It was a lot of fun
Think I would have raised compression to like 10to1 leaving power on the table
Me too
Unless they plan to add forced induction at some point
@@lighterguy82 can still add boost at 10 to 1 lol
@@PatrickScottlxw but you can add alot at 8.34, with 10.1 your limited to really high octane and low boost at low rpm
@@lighterguy82 Your tune dictates what you can do. Low compression - high boost just runs parts ragged and creates a lot of heat.
Your video makes AMC alive and well again in my mind.
Bless you! I’m subscribed
I wish they'd gone with some hotter pistons. Even 9:1 would have gotten some big gains.
If big you mean about 13 hp, sure. A point of compression is only worth about 4% tops.
You actually run into some interesting problems with the AMC 304, especially right now. As they state in the video they used a .060 over piston, those are almost impossible to get ahold of right now. We know, because we're building a .060 over 304 right now for our 79 AMX :) Sealed Power is sold out and won't be back in stock for 2-3 months and the only other option is from UEM and those are also a factory stock replacement unit around 8.5 : 1. The only other other option really is to go for a set of custom pistons at about twice the price. But, when you are throwing $5500 in parts at this build, why not spend an extra $300 on some better pistions?
In case you guys are still wondering why there was no whiz-bang high end pistons, rods, etc, put onto the AMC. Programs like Power Nation rely on promotional freebies. AMC high end parts are usually custom, limited run, and are not the kind of thing you get as a promotional based sponsorship. 304s and 290s make great forced induction platforms. The stock cast internals can hold to some pretty big numbers if you keep the detonation at bay. Turbocharged 290s and 304s are cheap and easy to make. The thick walls allow you to run some crazy boost. Knew a guy who was pushing 35PSI with stock cast internals. Won't even say the HP but that was a damned fast car. As a long time AMC guy we are plagued by lack of modernity and modern engineered parts that the GM and Dodge crowd can easily acquire via back ported and custom engineering because of bulk sales numbers. Even eddelbrock screwed the AMC guys with warped, out of spec intake manifolds and low-effort aluminum heads that really didn't offer much flow wise beyond the ported iron dog-legs, except for the heat transfer and weight savings of aluminum. I still miss my AMCs but the frustration of trying to get quality high end parts was maddening.
Fun history, AMC made multiport injection engines back in the early 60s an an option.
That's actually pretty impressive with the super low compression. You can probably run 87 octane in this thing lol
It’d take 85 without too much timing. It seems the senior builder wanted to limit the timing in the video as well.
Should be super streetable and non temperamental.
Every time I watch these guys put together an engine I always wish that I'd had the equipment they have when I was doing a lot of this. I heard AMC heads flow pretty good themselves. I would have liked to see a comparison between stockers and the aluminum heads.
Amc dog leg heads are great flowing from the factory. I have a set on a 360 that makes over 400hp with minimal upgrades. 9.5 compression and a 268 cam. Makes my cj7 move pretty good.
@@bryceocain5234 Thanks for confirming what I've heard......if you inspect the AMC heads they seem to have the better attributes of both SBC heads and Mopar 340's. AMC held their own with the Mustangs and Camaros when they were racing in the TransAm series. I know that they were pretty special breathed-on heads but, hey, so were the other guys. I wish we had a series like that now.
1,000,000 subscribers is a great goal. I mean, you already have a subscriber for every pen in Pat's pocket. You're almost there.
SWEET! I have a 1979 CJ5 Renegade with a 304 I plan to rebuild on my channel one of these days, so this is great to see!
One of the sweetest sounding exhaust I've ever owed was a dual exhaust 304
I would like to see that Dyno with 9.7 to 1 compression.
Probably 350HP. If that.
9.8 😂
I know some guys that will be doing a dyno with a 9.5 : 1 cast iron headed 304 here soon ;)
@@josephfigueroa3527 Exactly maybe 25 more hp...A blow through supercharger with the 8.3 CR and 5-7 lbs of boost on this engine would bring it to 400 easily
@@phitownhustler4802 yeah but you lose fuel efficiency. I prefer a nice stout engine with lots of happy gas.
YES YES YES! Love when you take old muscle and pair it with fuel injection!!!! No more fouled plugs, full authority timing, fuel economy and POWER!!!
Ensure the viewers that the cam needs to be broken in at around 2000 RPM for about 20 minutes.
I love watching a show with all brand new parts, because you have many sponsors.
Anytime you install new cam bushings with a new cam and new lifters, if this isn’t done, it’s a waste of healthy cash.
It’s a valuable thing to know for many reasons.
Thanks!
You guys are so lucky to have a great job , I love what you guys do, keep them on the road and if ever need a tech , I would love to work with you guys
I’ve seen ring gaps lined up twice and I have always wondered how it would happen.
Learn something every day
Keep it up guys and thank you
I love the comment about how bad the condition was. I wish i foind any cars from tbe 70's with that little of gunk in it. Just the condition of the entire car ment it was taken care of...other then they used pennz oil. No rust or roof rot. Iy was kept in a garage. Its a survivor.
I wish you woukd have used tbe original heads and intake system. They where knkwn to get the same power oit of the 401,390 go package and used the same heads.
Howdy PowerNation,
several questions:
1) if you are BUYING Pistons - why Why WHY specify 8.3:1 Compression Ratio ? when 9.5:1 or even 10:1 CR would respond so WELL ???
2) CAM - you did spec a bit MORE duration on your Exhaust - why not a smidgen MORE lift on the EXHAUST Lobe too ? AMC's like a bit more LIFT & Duration on the Exhaust side
3) I guess you could have made up for the "EVEN" Lift on the INT & EHX by specifying a half set of 1.7:1 Roller Rocker arms for the Exhaust Valves (but you didn't)
4) Aluminum Heads could have used any Any ANY Sized VALVES - why go so BIG that you had to "NOTCH" your 3.810" Block & SHROUD the bejesus out of the Head Flow ???
5) I did NOT see the push-in THIMBLE / SPACER / BUTTON get placed in the 1/4" hole in the OIL PICK-UP Tube Base (that keeps the spacing between the OIL PAN & Pick-Up Tube
6) CORRECTION = ONE (1) of your Head Bolts does indeed enter the Water Jacket = FYI
7) Even with the AIR-GAP Intake Manifold - you probably should have installed a Valley Pan GASKET to control PVC Oil Control
Thanks for WORKING on an AMC V-8 Engine = it is NICE to see AMERICAN MOTORS getting some "ink"
COOP
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I'm working on a AMC 304 right now, great timing!
You missed a step on the oil pump! Fill it with petroleum grease so it primes good or it will wipe out quick........