"Study" Doesn't Mean What You Think It Does
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- Опубліковано 24 жов 2020
- My KJV-Only brothers tell me all the time, "You're just too lazy to use a dictionary! Haven't you read, 'Study to shew thyself approved'?!" Little do they know-"study" doesn't mean what they think it means.
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I am glad you’re doing these videos. I still read my King James Version but I go to modern versions to make sure I truly understand what I read. I don’t think I was ever truly a KJV onlyist but I was very close to becoming one. It was my dad, a pastor who corrected me about that.
Praise God! The KJV is a great translation, but reading other versions can only help you understand.
Your commitment to accuracy, expressed with grace and humility, is a blessing and an encouragement. Thank you.
Many thanks!
This one you have right.But it's only ironic in that "study" is exactly what Paul wants him to do--learn to "rightly divide" that is, interpret scripture, or prove to others that he can.
This usage of "study" persisted long after the King James--for example, the famous spiritual "Down By the Riverside/Study War No More," with the meaning "focus one's attention on, have concern or worry over." It continued on in Black American culture long after that even. To say, "I'm studying a girl," was a way of saying, "I like her."
Blues singer Bobby Rush recorded "I Ain't Studdin' (sic) Ya" as late as 1991. And a quick Google reveals that a girl on Twitter recently said "studying" someone meant to be romantically interested.
In the end, it seems like this just another example of one of those happy turns of phrase of the King James which makes other translations seem dry: "Be diligent..."
Maybe we need the Honesty Version--"Be anxious to show how right for the job you are..."
Another example of Black American vernacular usage is to "quit" a person (rather than an activity), meaning to "let go" or break off a romantic liaison--"I can't quit you, baby," sang Little Milton in 1969. While it was an older Willie Dixon tune that he was adapting, neither was it particularly antiquated usage. I imagine that, similar to "study," there are still places where "quit" would be understood.
But, in order to combat KJonlyism, if that is your end, you need to understand that, for the most part, these kinds of "false friends" as you call them fail to create much difficulty. Their meaning somehow comes across in a happy blend of strangeness and familiarity, as if baked into to our English consciousness.
Just as it's hard to top Shakespeare: ("Now is the winter of our discontent..." rings out in poetic grandeur. No one cares that it means, "Today the unhappiness of the royal-we is..."), so to, it's hard to top the King James for a combination of accuracy to the original languages and beauty.
There are English dialects, or there were dialects, in my lifetime which used the old archaic meaning of “study.” My elder relatives, now passed away knew of the older meaning. I heard them use it.
"Study" in that verse was my absolute favorite until I learned Biblical languages. However I must admit, that although I had already discovered that σπουδάζω means diligent or work hard and so on, I assumed that they were just communicating what "diligent" means in that context, i.e to study. I connected that with "dividing of the word of truth". So, even with my Greek and Hebrew, I still had a false friend - I didn't know they meant something different by study. Thank you 🙏
Deep diving into the scripture is so useful and so rewarding for some of use. Not everyone wants to go deep or can handle minutia and finer details of the original language and scripture, but some of us do. So we appreciate running into material that do. It is not quarreling. Thank you.
I appreciate this!
Pastor Jonathan Burris sent me here. Thank You for this video, Dr. Ward. I am actually liking KJV more and more as I am starting to read it.....more and more :)
The KJV is an excellent translation-but if you’re going to read it exclusively, you need to understand that it was translated into a form of English no one quite speaks or writes anymore. So there are going to be some places where you think you understand but, because of language change, you’re going to miss the intent of the KJV translators. For help discerning when this is the case, I encourage you to check out my “Fifty False Friends in the KJV” series on UA-cam for help reading the KJV! ua-cam.com/play/PLq1Aq0ucgkPCtHJ5pwhrU1pjMsUr9F2rc.html
Another great video, Mark. I encourage you to keep up your efforts. Your videos are very helpful to many of us. I hope critics of your work don’t make you second guess your efforts. Thank you.
I appreciate this. I do need this encouragement, though I also try not to listen to only good press!
Great video Mark, your channel is a blessing. Thank you for all your diligent application of your God given talents.
Wow, thank you for these kind words!
Oh great now I have to study my study of the scriptures lol .
This is a great one to point out . Excellent example.
Good one Mark .
Blessings
Thank you!
Bravo! Last Sunday I preached 2 Tim 2:15 with title, “Are you doing your best?”. I emphasized being diligent for accuracy of truth and that we are presenting ourselves to God Yahweh to see if we are approved and certified as Bible disciples rightly diving truth! Excellent and correct presentation again. You are a gift to the body of Christ!
Many thanks! Very kind of you!
Thank you for stressing the importance of diligence in our bible study, Mark.
One thing that I take away from your overall message regarding avoiding argumentation is the importance of Unity.
1 Corinthians 12:12
For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ.
This being only one of many such examples.
How about Mounce’s Expository Dictionary? Do you recommend that as a decent resource? In conjunction with BDAG?
If you have BDAG and know how to use it, I don’t recommend Mounce. I’m not saying it’s bad; but my use of it some years ago did not persuade me that it successfully avoided the problems of theological lexicography that it’s introduction promises to avoid.
@@markwardonwords
Thanks. Yes I have both a hard copy of BDAG and one on logos and it’s what I use 99% of the time I was just interested if his more expositional method would be insightful but I was not aware of a bias or distortion called “theological lexicography.” So thanks for that information.
Great video, Mark. Thank you for your work!
Thank you, Bobby. Make sure to let me know what you end up doing as far as more school goes… Enjoyed talking to you the other week.
Thank you for doing this video brother! I became a word geek because for you! Godbless! 💚
Ha! The world needs more word geeks!
@@markwardonwords please visit www.incmedia.org brother! 💚😊
Can you please repeat the name of that lexicon you said it so fast I couldn't keep up with it lol or provide a link to where I can find one or use one online perhaps?
BDAG? Bauer, Danker, Arney, & Gingrich? It’s not available freely online. :/
@@markwardonwords Fair enough thank you for letting me know. And they're not cheap either but I still want one.
@@ThecrosseyedTexan, it’s available in Logos. Or try Louw-Nida. I might actually start there. Cheaper. More accessible.
@@markwardonwords I actually own logos so I will check that out. Thank you sir I really enjoyed your videos
Mark, I really appreciate these videos. Thanks for your diligent, studious, work :) I have a modern-translation only background and sometimes I go to the KJV to get some variety in the rendering of the English and ofttimes I find myself very confused, one instance being exactly this 1 Timothy passage. I consulted BDAG and it was clear to me that the word study in the KJV was off to me, a modern man. Would you recommend to always go to the Oxford Dictionary to get the obsolete semantic range of a word in the KJV? Also, what Oxford Dictionary was that? What is the website that has that version you presented on the video?
It’s the one and only Oxford English Dictionary. You’ll know it from other dictionaries with “Oxford” in the title by its massive size. 20 volumes. It is literally the only source that can do the (whole) job for KJV readers. Other dictionaries will capture a portion of the help it gives, but it’s the only one that covers the entire history of English.
@@markwardonwords thanks for your reply to my comment. It is interesting that you can unlock God's Word rendered in the Elizabethan English today only if you have a $500 bulky dictionary. Praise God for our modern-English translations! (including the NKJV)
Right. This is a point I make in my book. Now I do want to acknowledge that, though my Fifty False Friends are all part of God's word and therefore important to understand, a number can be uncovered by careful reading and the use of a contemporary dictionary, and a number are commonly known. In other words, it's not like the lack of the OED will cause massive understandings of Christian theology among KJV readers. But I have demonstrated a number of places in the KJV where, without the OED (or at least the checking of other translations), nearly all KJV readers will be mislead. "Halt" in 1 Kings 18:21 is one example; I myself was misled. "So that" in 1 Kings 8:25 is another, and one of my favorites-it's just so random.
Another good one. Study to keep doing these videos!
Thanks, John. I really do appreciate the encouragement.
Which Oxford English Dictionary did you look these words up in? 3rd Edition? I am trying to locate this Dictionary on Ebay to perhaps purchase one, if available. Thank you for your help!
It’s the 20-volume edition. It’s huge.
Thanks Mark!@@markwardonwords
OMG. I didn’t see this coming. (Maybe it is in your book, but I am not there yet?) Thanks for this episode.
*fun fact* Korean KJV onlyist translated KJV into Korean.. and _voila_, Of course, they didn’t know it was a false friend... it is translated into 연구(研究) which draws pictures of scientists doing research in labs or post-doctors doing their research.
Thanks for this! （don’t worry, i won’t use this to quarrel)
Ha!
Great video, brother!
Thank you!
What is your website(s), please? Thank you.
kjvparallelbible.org
Thank you, brother. Must get your book!
Any time!
I read it. It's really good
Mark, this is my favorite video of the series so far. Yes, the demonstration of "study" as a false friend was great, but the passion with which you explain why you do what you do was incredible.
Being motivated to be accurate when you say "thus saith The Lord" is life altering.
I say all that with real sobriety, as I hope you can see. This work is not easy on the spirit. =( I would appreciate your prayers.
The Body of Christ needs more teachers like you, Mark, with your love and humility! Keep the videos coming!
Wow, thank you!
Someone once "prophecied" over me to study to show myself approved...I honestly thought he meant i was supposed to go Bible school (which I haven't done but not opposed to) . Oddly enough after he said that I found myself falling "in love" with reading The Bible and wanting to learn more about it an Biblical history.
When I listen to you, I do not hear you “quarreling,” rather I experience you as edifying. Please do continue - I really appreciate growing in understanding.
Much appreciated. Pray for me!
I came across a comment in another ministry email which says the correct translation of Isaiah 14:12 translated Lucifer is Morning Star because the Hebrew read Haylel instead of Lucifer which was taken from Latin vulgate.The Lord is the Bright and Morning Star and there is a big difference right.Can you comment?
Jose, yes, modern translations go for "Morning Star," because that's what the Hebrew says.
Thank you very much for your comment Pastor Mark I wrote a note about the difference in translation in the KJV and modern versions in Isaiah 14:12 and also in the 2 Timothy your important explanation on verse 15 that it use is the limited to study whether for personal Bible study,teaching or preaching but including aspects of a minister's responsibility.
To set your mind upon , that is really powerful !!! Great video my brother God bless and thankyou .
Glad you enjoyed it!
Do you have a link to get the standard Greek English dictionary?
It's not cheap: www.amazon.com/dp/0226039331?tag=3755-20
This is free and almost as good-probably better for most non-specialists: semanticdictionary.org.
@@markwardonwords thank you brother. I have a pretty good library. It's an investment.
@@markwardonwords how much difference is between the second and the 3rd edition?
@@jonathanriesco1 Enough that I would not get the second edition. If you're going to spend any money at all, you need to get the definitive edition. It's also easier to use, I think.
Coming across your channel has been very helpful. Thank you.
I have wrestled for years over which Bible version I should personally use (i.e. most comfortable using). For years I used the NIV but have become disillusioned with knowing it is based on the critical texts.
And more recently, the updated NIV seems to lack gravitas.
I certainly would never have become 'KJVO' but have been using the KJV for a while, but then I find more dilemmas:
1. The risk of me not spotting the 'false friends' you refer to is very real.
2. Reading a passage in my small group, all members of which use the NIV, seems out of place. While I may choose to study privately so I understand the KJV language better, my hearers will not have done so, and therefore, they will not be edified by MY reading of the Scripture to them. If I were preaching, I could expound it, but I'm not, so they have to understand what they're hearing when I read.
3. Related to 2, my friends will find some of the 'KJVisms' quaint or even amusing, comical, or silly to the modern ear. For example, 'a superfluity of naughtiness' does not carry that sense of utter abhorrence that it once did.
As far as I can tell, the NKJV seeks to carry similar gravitas as the KJV. What using the KJV HAS taught me is, to slow down. I have found that reading the NKJV in the same kind of tone as I would the KJV seems to help me regard and esteem the word of God, more than the NIV, which appears to be styled for fast reading, thus engendering a lightness which is not fitting. I may be wrong, that that is my experience.
God bless
I love this, especially points 2 and 3, which show love for fellow believers. I've gone through something like your evolution-and then to a further stage, where I realized I'd never set aside the NIV even if the ESV, a more literal translation, was my "default." I'm glad to have all options. Sometimes I WANT to read a Bible styled for fast reading. What's so bad about that, if my purpose is to cover a lot of ground quickly, to get a big picture?
To study is to learn, to learn to do, or to learn to be. It can be by books, or by experience and practice.
Can't we study what someone does in order to learn how to do it ourselves? Without using a book? And besides that, in order to be diligent to present ourselves approved unto God, would it perhaps help, to study the word of God? (You know, in the "book" sense?)
Absolutely!
Just subscribed. You're giving more "benefit of the doubt" to KJV-only than I think is warranted. I don't know if it's a "cult" but it's certainly idolatry. They have put love of the KJV above the love of Jesus Christ. 1 Cor. 16:22 comes to mind. And 1 John 4:20. I hope your clear and gentle presentations will win a few.
That is true of some on the extreme end, but it's not true of the mainstream. I really don't believe that it is. If I did, I don't think I'd put this kind of time into reaching the mainstream.
I am no scholar but I do read multiple translations and interpretations. Thank you for your work. (Your parents are proud.)
Wonderful! Thank you!
Another great video about false friends, thank you! Indeed, this one is ironic in the context of KJV Onlyism.
Well done for including the bit about "quarrelling about words".
Glad you enjoyed it! Please pray for me not to quarrel!
@mark great video. slight correction, though. Not all modern translations exclude the word study from 2 tim 2:15 (depending on your definition of 'modern') - Jubilee Bible 2000, Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, Third Millennium Bible, Amplified, MEV, etc. Certainly, none of the 'mainstream' modern translations use study, though.
Good call!
You are not arguing over words but teaching! Good job friend.
Thank you.
@@markwardonwords Keep up the good work brother. Praying for you!
Thank for your diligence on studying as you do to provide the brethren with information they may have otherwise never come across.
My pleasure!
John 3 uses one Greek word for believe, then in the last verse 36 in the KJV it says believe but the Greek word is different, meaning obey. Is there any significance?
There is some ambiguity in the word. Commentaries will explain further, or maybe the NIDNTTE. I wouldn't call what the KJV translators did wrong.
Great video! Thank you for your faithfulness! I’ve never heard that Strongs and Vines were not responsible before. I don’t have access to BDAG so I’ve used the online Strongs in the past. Ever thought of doing a video exploring that claim?
I need to back this up. Planning on it.
@@markwardonwords Have you made that video on what makes BDAG responsible, while Strongs and Vine are not yet? I haven't seen it yet, but I may have missed it.
I have not, but I did make a Word Nerd video explaining some of the problems that Strong's can cause-I don't think they're all his fault, but there it is. ua-cam.com/video/2f6Qj7XKU9c/v-deo.html
Strong's both came at a time before the papyri were discovered, papyri that showed that New Testament Greek was not a special Holy Spirit language. Strong's doesn't make clear divisions among senses, either.
It's been a long while since I looked closely at Vine's, but during my dissertation work I looked in detail at relevant entries, I believe. I did so because I was looking for word study fallacies-and I found them.
At the super general level, Strong's doesn't organize its lexical information in given entries to distinguish senses; it doesn't give enough info. Vine's gives too much info, as most theological and expository dictionaries tend to do. They tend to invite readers to load up too much meaning on the backs of poor innocent Greek and Hebrew words that weren't designed to carry the load.
@@markwardonwords Great! Thanks for the help!
@@markwardonwords Thanks for the link! I've probably made some word study fallacies in my past use of Strong's. I will remind myself usage determines meaning.
This make so much sense. My eyes are being opened. Thank you Sir.
Do you have any youtube teachings on: 1) how the Canon was decided, and 2) Why we Protestants, unlike the Roman Catholics, do not agree on something teachings of the early church fathers?
I don't. I point you to Michael Kruger: www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justin-taylor/10-basic-facts-about-the-nt-canon-that-every-christian-should-memorize/
I always wondered what “study to be quiet” meant! 😲
Yup. It’s a homeschool subject.
❤ much love to Mark Ward for his hard work
This is a comment that doesn't have to do with the topic but what you said at 9:45 Is that what that verse 2 Tim 2:13 really means?
I was under the impression Paul was saying the exact opposite there.
I wish I could "study"as well as you have done. I have a brother by birth that is hard to dicuss anything about the Bible with due to his King James only mentality. Please continue to educate us.
Pray for him! I was once him! There are many more damaging errors in the church, but this is the one I feel called to address-for now, at least. And I have seen the Lord do very good things for his KJV-Only sheep.
Somewhat off topic but, is the NKJV also full of "false friends"? I'm no KJV onlyist but i do like the KJV.. I do find it hard to understand it at all in many areas.. Hence i use the NKJV.. I like to keep a few translations out of the both texts like KJV.NKJV and then also the NASB.HCSB.ESV etc
No, false friends happen because of language change over time. The NKJV was completed in the early 80s. It may have a few false friends that have been held over from the KJV, but I would put that number very low. I am not aware of a single instance.
@@markwardonwords I'm glad to hear that as i really do like the NKJV.. One of my favs.
Any hints as to what your favorite translations are? :-)
@@sylviafriessen9124, my book will tell you! I have a whole chapter answering that question! amzn.to/2r27Boz
Thanks Mark.
My pleasure.
Hi:
1) The Book Of Common Prayer has the word study, meaning "Be seriously diligent", like the KJV, somewhere in it; but I forget where.
I do recall I only came upon it once in a while, though.
........
2) You spoke of preaching. In one book on preaching, the (I think Scottish) author advises pastors: "The sermon you preach on Sunday, is the most important thing that will happen in your village, all week!"
:--}>
I’m preaching in the morning!
One of the translations that tries to stir up trouble in the Spanish-speaking world changes "procura con diligencia presentarse" in the RV1960 to "estudia con diligencia para presentarse" because, you know, endeavoring without studying isn't good enough, because - KJV. It is interesting that they left the corruption "con diligencia" in there. Not sure why the corruption in English is acceptable in Spanish but I don't suppose they can change it now that it is perfect.
Like the Rey Jaime version, which (I’m told?) translated, “And they cast the same in his teeth,” as, “Y echaron lo mismo en sus dientes.”
Based on my study so far, I do not accept the Critical Text as the "oldest and best" Greek so my choices for a Bible to use is limited to three (KJV, NKJV, MLV).
More power to you, brother! As long as you give liberty to other Christians to conclude differently-because the Bible doesn't speak to this. But if you and your house use the KJV, NKJV, and MEV, that's fine!
Perhaps Part 2 should be "Rightly Dividing Does not Mean what you Think it Does?" I just wrote a seminary paper on dispensationalism dealing with this! You're welcome to my notes if they would help... 😎
I recall a young man, with whom I was engaged in a discussion about KJV-only, that ironically made an incorrect argument for KJV only because he didn't understand Elizabethan English.
It's so sad!!
"Study to show thyself approved"--apply yourself (in a general sense). I read lots of old books. I have no problem with virtually all of your "false friends". But because I don't have a problem, I know that most other people do! Lol.
The one that most surprised me was “so that.” Did you see that one? FF39? ua-cam.com/video/04f3P85d-ZE/v-deo.html
Hello Dr. Ward, Pastor Johnathan Burris sent me.
Thanks for coming! I pray my work can be beneficial to you.
Very good. σπουδάζω
You do? Great!
lol
"I'd have to poke into the Hebrew to see..."
...
"I did poke and..."
Poking into Hebrew is fun!
@@markwardonwords Absolutely agree!
I have personally never found you to be quarrelsome, Mark. I think you have a lot of humility and charity when speaking about this subject. What you discuss on your channel is a worthy topic because it divides the body unnecessarily. We shouldn’t ignore anything that divides the body in that way.
Thank you. Pray for me!
False Friends aside i think Mark Ward is my new BFF.
There is one particular Bible passage that, in my mind, is a false friend used wrongly as a weapon in the arsenal of most KJV-Only "activists", and that is Psalm 12:6-7.
There are no misunderstood words in these verses, but rather it's the grammar that misleads the unwary.
Extreme KJV Onlyists discourage the use of Bibles with footnotes, saying, oh, those notes are not inspired and have no business being in the Bible. But if they knew what the marginal notes in verse 7 say, they would realise that there is something lost in translation due to grammar!
Could you do a video about that, please?
I am planning a lengthy and extensive video on this topic. It will coincide with the release of an academic paper I've written on Psalm 12:6-7.
Thank you for your diligent work. I appreciate these videos.
Thanks for watching!
I cracked up when I heard that KJV Research guy misuse this verse. Hello?!
The most ironic false friend!
My 1637 Matthew's and 1560 Geneva also say "Study". Have to assume all pre-KJV's have it.
Yes, because "study" was a perfectly fine rendering in their day.
@@markwardonwords it's a perfectly fine rendering today too... And superior!😉
@@Pilgrim-funjIt no longer accurately communicates what Paul intended, because English has changed since 1611.
@@markwardonwords the context of the verse is scripture and rightly dividing it so yes, STUDY is the right word for that verse.
Now you can kinda see why Romanism tried so hard to keep the Bible out of the hands of ordinary people, for half a millennium. "Everybody wants to get into the act!" as the late, great Jimmy Durante used to complain. Everybody thinks that he understands every jot and tittle of Holy Writ and that his personal opinion is the revealed word of God.
Yeah that’s a myth, scripture is read daily at mass and has been in the past.
Yep ironically the most overused and least understood passage used by the onlyists.
I'd love to see just a few of them-three, I'm praying now for three-acknowledging what I've argued here.
@@markwardonwords don't hold your breath Mark. For a lot, if not most of them, their doctrine is dependent on misunderstanding. Ever notice that people who believe the Earth is flat and/or space is fake also hold only to the kjv?
I'm more of a "King James mainly." Honestly, I don't see much of a difference between modern "study" and Elizabethan. I mean, what besides Scripture and doctrine *would* we strive at? Tiddly-winks? Beer pong? Mumblety-peg?
What does the verse say? What is the object of the diligence we’re called to?
@@markwardonwords the verse says "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." Which only brings me back to the question: other than Scripture and doctrine, what is there to strive at? Badminton? Volleyball? To me, inferring--even understanding that "study" may have a broader meaning in Elizabethan English--that one can show oneself approved by applying oneself to something other than Scripture and doctrine is at best a bit of a stretch--especially since the whole point of such study appears to be to "rightly divide the word."
The real misinterpretation is missing the “to” direction. Its not study, in order to show…, it’s study to show yourself approved.
What’s the difference? I’m not catching it!
I'm just saying that the emphasis isn't on study or diligence. That is not the end goal. It's to be diligent to be approved of God. Right?@@markwardonwords That's how I knew that the KJV had a different meaning that reading books or memorizing scripture.
I'd rather read esv and spend my time on study rather than studying old English
Agreed!
4,114 Definitions says that study means to try hard; Gk be diligent.
Right!
@@markwardonwords So why go through several books to find the definition, when you only need that one book that covers every false friend you've discussed on this blog.
BTW, 4,114 only costs about $10.oo on amazon.com
Excellent.
Many thanks!
The word in greek there can be translated as strive OR study (as learning something, doing research etc.). Same with the english word "study" in 17 century - it could mean both. Dictionaries proof. The rule of the game behind the new translations is if there are multiple ways to translate a particular word - use anything else, but the one that KJB translators used...
It could be translated “study” in 1611, but not today, my friend. The current meaning of that word does not fit the Greek word.
@@markwardonwords as I mentioned- greek word can mean both ways - to strive (try hard, be diligent) and learn something
the defenition#4 @@markwardonwords
What’s your source, my friend?
@@markwardonwords I try to put a link here to a lexicon, but for some reason it does not let me to do so. Can I email it to you?
How about “rightly dividing the word of truth“. This is not exactly a false friend. But it is some thing that some people misunderstand and take it to mean literally dividing the Bible. When actually the Greek phrase which was more literally “cut straight” the word of truth. Was a figure of speech that originated from construction simply meaning do it right. I’m sure you already know this but it is one that I had to learn after dealing with a hyper dispensationalist.
That's a tough phrase in Greek as in English. The metaphor is not clear. People have come up with various proposals. I wouldn't call it a false friend, either-like you. Because language change isn't the reason it's difficult or gets misunderstood.
Mark Ward, do you pull modern translations apart like you pull the kjv?.
Please show a video where you show some if the 1000s of errors in the modern translations.
Friend, I have posited precisely one error in the KJV. An archaism is not an error. It’s not an error on the KJV translators’ part, nor on the part of modern readers-who should never be expected to keep up with changes in English over the centuries. It’s no one’s fault that “study” in the minds of the KJV translators meant something different than it means today. It’s simply the natural force of language change that has caused this minor problem.
@@markwardonwords why don't you call modern translations,
"False friends"?.
I have the Hebrew and Greek, and I have found the NKJV to be the most accurate translation.
@markwardonwords please give some of the errors in modern translations. You have 1000s of errors to choose from.
I'll look forward to watching them.
I know there's errors in the kjv, but so is there in modern and, plus 1000s more errors.
@alanhales1123 There is no movement of Christians dividing from other Christians over the alleged perfection of the ESV. There is no one to argue against.
@markwardonwords anyone who knows the Bible and is sensitive to the leading of the Holy Spirit will know how erroneous the esv along with other modern translations are.
Scientists have proved that the Alexandrian texts have been changed to suit the anti-God Alexandrian's and Wescott and Hort.
They are very incorrect and unreliable.
Throw the esv and other modern translations away where no one can find them and be deceived by them.
If the TR is wrong, then God has been deceiving people for almost 200 years, because church history proves that the earliest Christians quoted from the Textus Receptus, until the devil inspired the Alexandrian texts to be discussed in the 1800s
Just like the devil has inspired Ministers and Christians to dress scruffy.
“Be diligent” also in the OED for study is “transitive. To be a student of (a specific subject) at a university, college, etc.; to be occupied with as the subject of one's formal course of…” I see the same meaning between both always have. To be diligent you have have to “study” Gods word in order show yourself approved, you must know what and how he wants, “study” is an essential part of that.
This is a common reply. I am not persuaded. The Greek word didn't mean "to be occupied with as the subject of one's formal course of study." It meant "Be diligent." I'm not putting down study; I'm saying that 2 Tim 2:15 doesn't command it.
@@markwardonwords got it but how do you be diligent? Learn, you apply in other words to a to study, just as I said above in line with your beloved OED
I am sorry for the negative reactions to my comment,I would like to the ASV of 1901 translates Lucifer as Daystar.I have had with try to control as to what versions or concordance I would.I don't care if you label me what negative adjectives.I am true being a KJV only.
Don't worry, Jose! Just keep watching and commenting. It's nice to have you around. I appreciate your spirit.
Thank you for your encouragement Pastor Mark.I remember in the late 1980's about reading an article about an Evangelist Tim Lee who mentioned a hypothetical case about preaching the Gospel in Vatican city,for saying he was labeled as compromiser,ecumenical and willing to cooperate with Rome-the end justifies the means.The title of Evangelist Lee is "The Fraternity of the Free" And so this plowboy who decided to be free from the bondage to using a only one Bible version have come to realize that I am too old now to enroll in seminary to study Hebrew and Greek so that I can know for myself what the original Hebrew and original Greek to understand one Bible version.As to watching your videos nobody can't stop me from doing it,God knows your purpose is not quarrel with those who don't agree with you.
You know, I'm so glad all these KJV loyalists speak English... This is the most stupid debate.... I have many friends in other regions of the world where English is not there first language and they don't argue about thaea kind of things until some person wants to translate the english into their native tongue instead of going straight to the Hebrew and Greek to do it.... Satan just sits back and laughs at all the idiots using God's word to cause division..and he's won.
And what do you do if tens or even hundreds of thousands of your fellow believers are caught in a snare? You pray and work to restore them.
@@markwardonwords the problem is many of them refuse to be restored....and go on a crusade to ruin you with other local ministries by noising abroad you've gone liberal or telling other pastors you no longer believe the Bible is God's word because you don't believe some translation is inspired.
@@kdeh21803, agreed. And the Bible describes that sin and tells you what to do with those who are committing it.
"Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, *enmity*, *strife*, *jealousy*, *fits of anger*, *rivalries*, *dissensions*, *divisions*, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21 ESV)
This is serious stuff. =(
And people in the KJV-Only world who hound you like that, when they are brothers, ought to be treated the way 2 Thess 3:6, 14 say:
"Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us." (2 Thessalonians 3:6 ESV)
"If anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed." (2 Thessalonians 3:14 ESV)
And if they show signs that they may not be brothers at all, Titus 3:10 is the next step:
"As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him." (Titus 3:10 ESV)
@@markwardonwords I've even had people tell me I was full of non sense since I used other "Bibles".
@@christopheryetzer so let's just make up words to fit like Erasmus did
I know that you made this video 3 years ago and after watching many of your videos about what you call "false friends" I do believe that this view is incorrect. I think a better way to view these words in the KJV is "misunderstood friends", and I say this with the upmost respect of your perspective. I view that when this was made back in the 1611 to 1769 that those who read this once called Holy Bible understood these words without any doubt to the meaning and usage. So, please fill free to continue to inform us of these, as I will call them, "misunderstood friends". You know in this same translation in 1 Corinthians 9:19-23 "19 ¶ For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.". It is because of these verse that I agree with us continuing to translate and reassessing these works to more accurately represent what is true about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
They weren't false friends to the original readers! That's the point, my friend!
They are false friends to us! Does that make sense?
@@markwardonwords Thanks and I am giving my opinion not commands like our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ may give. I view all words as created by God and so I do not view them as false but misunderstood. For instance these translator did not have computers or electricity to light their homes. They did have access to many books many written by hand and others from printing presses. I have to let you know a little about myself I like history and I think in historical methods sometimes this is not something that can be taught but may by used to explain how to view the past and understand how one may have viewed the reality that we all share. So, this is why I view these words differently and have to remind myself that others do not view reality the way I am able to. So, if for you this view you have presented is right for you and should be used by you or you can view these words as created by God and given to us to use to talk to one another and that all words are gifts from above.
What scares me is in several verses in KJV when it says "saved" the modern version will write "being saved" now that's a big difference and can change the way a person sees salvation which I've seen in my family
My friend, I've been meaning to do a video on this. That is not the reason the NKJV and other translators have gone with "being saved" there. Simply put: it's what the Greek says. And interpreting it to mean that salvation is an ongoing process as opposed to an instantaneous act of God-interpreting it that way goes against other verses in all evangelical translations. This is a sort of conspiracy theory: *The modern versions are trying to change the doctrine of salvation!* It ignores the fact that all the evangelical versions were translated by evangelicals who don't believe in a Catholic view of salvation, for example. Why in the world would they make this revision unless they believed it was demanded by the Greek?
@@markwardonwords that's the problem, they are transcribing those versions from the Greek translations rather than the Hebrew translations like KJV. The Bible has nothing good to say about Rome so why would God spread his word through the Greek?
Russ, first things first: I checked out your channel, and you are GOOD at videography. Wow. I've learned a lot in the last two years, starting from pretty much nothing, but you are way ahead of me. I'm going to be watching some more of your content. I'm honored you'd watch mine.
I have to admit, though, that I just don't quite know where you're coming from in your comment. The KJV translators translated from the Hebrew in the Old Testament and from the Greek in the New Testament. This is what all sound translations do. Did I misunderstand you somehow? It is the standard, orthodox position to treat the Hebrew Bible and the Greek New Testament as inspired by God. What am I missing, my friend?
@@markwardonwords thank you I appreciate it. Yes you're right, I misunderstood that. I guess I'm still trying to learn more about KJV as well as other versions out there. In the grand scheme of things all those versions should bring you to Christ which is the goal and they can all do that
Yes, they can! My friend, do you have a good church to attend? If you have a well-trained pastor, he can recommend some good resources to you on the basics of bibliology. If not, my own little book is cheap and short and hopefully helpful: www.amazon.com/dp/B08N2XB6ML?tag=3755-20
And even better is a short book on the Bible by one of my favorite writers, Kevin DeYoung: www.amazon.com/dp/B00IFG0EPM?tag=3755-20
I highly recommend DeYoung's book!
You could also use Giberti's Unlocking The King James Bible's Common Words and Phrases. Stop the circuitous hunt for meaning when it's in one or two books.
Glen, I am using the best and most reliable sources.
@@markwardonwords Yes, but you go through so many books to find your answer. You really only need one book. It's just stupid fluff to fill a vlog.
@@glenconverse1327 Sounds to me like you're suggesting he not follow 2 Timothy 2:15, in either the false or true sense...
There are a lot of words in the English language that just don’t fully convey the meaning that you can get from the Greek and Hebrew. This does not mean that the king James interpreters use the wrong word. The English language is at fault. And the newer versions don’t make it any better. In fact it makes more sense, in the fact that the only way you can rightly divide the word is the study it. Too many Christians just casually read the Bible. They don’t apply themselves to know it fully. As in half heartally doing a job.
My friend, I just can't accept this-the idea that my language is incapable of expressing the truths of God's word.
@@markwardonwords In the English language we say I love ice cream or I love my wife or I love my brother. In English we know what they mean by the context. But to somebody who is learning English would be confused when they know that there are different kinds of love In the Greek you have different words for each.
@@markwardonwords I did not say that our language cannot express God‘s truth. What I was saying is that the Greek is more concise. I just have to say the word “agape “ and you exactly know what it is and what it isn’t. But if I say “love “ you will immediately ask “in what context “, tell me more.
@@leonardbramhill6889 Friend, I encourage you to read these two articles:
www.logos.com/grow/author/nathaniel-erickson/
I solicited and edited them after I heard the author on a podcast for Bible translators.
@@markwardonwords I didn’t say that the Greek was the most concise language. I said in the instances that I stated, it is MORE concise.
The word needs to be translated in the context. The literal meaning is “be diligent” the idiomatic meaning in the context of 2Tim 2:15 is “to study” or “to diligently study”. Also the word “spoudazo” means “study” in greek. For example: - Τι σπουδάζεις; (What are you studying [in university]?) - Σπουδάζω την ελληνική γλώσσα. (I'm studying [in university] the Greek language.)
That’s modern Greek, not ancient. See follow-up video.
2 Timothy 4:3-4. You will give account for the Christians you have led astray.
"I always take pains to have a clear conscience toward both God and man."(Acts 24:16 ESV)
@@markwardonwords STOP NOT PICKONG!!@!
Modern versions march in step to the dumbing down of the culture n country . and of course coming out with new updated copyright same old versions is a cash cow for that dumbing down publishing persuasion
Friend, let me copy-edit that for you:
“Modern versions march in step to the dumbing-down of the culture in our country-and, of course, coming out with new, updated-copyright, same-old versions is a cash cow for those of that dumbing-down publishing persuasion.”
Studying the bible is part of being diligent to show yourself approved, DUH!
Please interact with the arguments made in the video.
I will gladly, gladly debate you on these issues anytime my friend. Don't cowardly misrepresent us, put your money where your mouth is! Let us debate the matter publicly.
I have looked for suitable debate partners and found none who are yet willing. Use the contact form on my website to send me your resume. Byfaithweunderstand.com/contact
@@markwardonwords You got it! I will provide you a sampling of my past debates as well.
This creates a contradiction in modern versions that doesn't exist in the KJV.
Jesus said "Be ye therefore perfect"
"Do your best" is falling short of perfect.
Also it's not a divisive doctrine, the KJV was here before and the most widely used, therefore modern versions are the divisive ones. Tsk tsk. You shouldn't lie like that.
That's not a contradiction. Different speakers, different contexts, different rhetoric.
@@MAMoreno It absolutely is a contradiction, and the context is exactly the same.
KJV - be ye therefore perfect even as your father in heaven is perfect.
Study to show thyself approved unto God.
Contexts are the same. But what can I say, if your God can't make a perfect bible like mine can, you might want to ditch that idolatry and learn to worship the Word.
@@HeisRisen174 Context 1: a sermon to a broad Jewish audience, calling on them to be faithful to the underlying intent of the Law in addition to the letter
Context 2: a personal letter from an older pastor to a younger pastor, encouraging him to preach the gospel accurately in the face of Ephesian heretics who were distorting the truth
Ok so all you did was show the circumstantial context when I was discussing the expressional context.
"Do your best" is still a far cry from "Be ye therefore perfect"
And you can not be ye therefore perfect while claiming that a perfect God cannot preserve his perfect words.
Amen! Well said HeisRisen174
Mark Ward you are wrong AGAIN.
The Greek word for, "Study" in 2 Tim 2: 15. Is Spoundazo.
And it means,
"Be diligent , give diligence and, STUDY".
Please keep to the Biblical Greek.
Your videos are pointless, nit picking and deceiving.
Modern translations are erroneous and are from the erroneous Alexandrian of Egypt texts.
What is your source, friend?
@@markwardonwords the Biblical Greek. Is my source.
Where's you go by man's opinions.
@markwardonwords you really need to take all your videos of UA-cam.
Because you'll have answers to God for your errors.
@@alanhales1123 "you'll have answers to God for your errors." So will you, Al.
@hwgray why would I have to answer to God for telling the truth?.
All modern translations come from the erroneous Alexandrian of Egypt texts, which were done by ant- Christians.
Mark it seems to me that you have a personal vendetta against those to are KJV-Only bible believers--you are promoting that those who hold this view are uneducated and misinformed by their pastors. Why do you attack the KJV with such passion? After all, it was the first official English translation that was authorized after fierce persecution and shedding of innocence blood of the martyrs by the Church of Rome and England. And because of the KJV the word of God reached to millions of people who came to the knowledge of the truth. Now according to you personal attacks, they were mislead and misinformed. Who's side are you--Jesus or the adversary?
My friend, I love the KJV. I *never* attack it. I'm reading through it yet again this year, and not to collect ammo but to do my daily devotions.
Imagine that a group of faithful Lollards in the early 1500s, followers of Wycliffe, who had held onto the gospel through the dark times of Romanism, suddenly encounter a brand new English Bible translation by some upstart who has fled the country, a man named "Tyndale." Let us imagine that the older folks in the congregation are very, very skeptical of Tyndale’s work.
They say, "Who needeth this unworthy newe translation? For verily the work of Wycliffe have served us and our fathers well these many score of years. For of a truth it hath been whispered abroad that 'Brother' Tyndale hath done this work of a hatred for Wycliffe and of a love for filthy lucre."
What arguments would you use with these dear brothers and sisters to persuade them to use Tyndale's translation? How might you go about pointing out that English had changed between Wycliffe's day (he died in 1384) and their own? That's the situation I'm in.
So the KJV is an excellent translation-but if you're going to read it exclusively, you need to understand that it was translated into a form of English no one quite speaks or writes anymore. So there are going to be some places where you think you understand but, because of language change, you're going to miss the intent of the KJV translators. For help discerning when this is the case, I encourage you to check out my "Fifty False Friends in the KJV" series on UA-cam for help reading the KJV! ua-cam.com/play/PLq1Aq0ucgkPCtHJ5pwhrU1pjMsUr9F2rc.html
My friend, I love the KJV. I *never* attack it. I'm reading through it yet again this year, and not to collect ammo but to do my daily devotions.
Imagine that a group of faithful Lollards in the early 1500s, followers of Wycliffe, who had held onto the gospel through the dark times of Romanism, suddenly encounter a brand new English Bible translation by some upstart who has fled the country, a man named "Tyndale." Let us imagine that the older folks in the congregation are very, very skeptical of Tyndale’s work.
They say, "Who needeth this unworthy newe translation? For verily the work of Wycliffe have served us and our fathers well these many score of years. For of a truth it hath been whispered abroad that 'Brother' Tyndale hath done this work of a hatred for Wycliffe and of a love for filthy lucre."
What arguments would you use with these dear brothers and sisters to persuade them to use Tyndale's translation? How might you go about pointing out that English had changed between Wycliffe's day (he died in 1384) and their own? That's the situation I'm in.
So the KJV is an excellent translation-but if you're going to read it exclusively, you need to understand that it was translated into a form of English no one quite speaks or writes anymore. So there are going to be some places where you think you understand but, because of language change, you're going to miss the intent of the KJV translators. For help discerning when this is the case, I encourage you to check out my "Fifty False Friends in the KJV" series on UA-cam for help reading the KJV! ua-cam.com/play/PLq1Aq0ucgkPCtHJ5pwhrU1pjMsUr9F2rc.html
@@markwardonwords Mark, I will give you the benefit of the doubt--I will take a look at those videos and see what you have to say. Hopefully I will get back to you with my take on this matter. On the mean time, you'll be blessed.