Paid Almost Nothing For An Expensive Telescope - But there's a catch... (by
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- I got this large Orion XT10 Dobsonian telescope for cheap - but it's going to cost me. The missing part is impossible to replace, so I guess I'll just have to find a way to fix it myself. If I can do that, can I upgrade the entire thing for less than a hundred bucks?
#telescope #restoration #dobsonian
In this video we explore three methods for making the replacement part and find out which one is best. And if that wasn't enough, in this two-parter, we hot-rod this Dob, turning it into a Pro version for less than a hundred bucks.
//UPGRADE VIDEOS IN THIS SERIES:
Part 1: Fixing the wrecked spider: • Paid Almost Nothing Fo...
Part 2: Hot-rodding the base: • Hotrod Your Telescope ...
Part 3: Flocking the inside of the telescope: • Flock Your Telescope B...
Part 4: Cooling fans and the finale • Cool Your Telescope Pl...
//AMAZON AFFILIATE LINKS (I earn a small commission from these links)//
Dremel Tool: amzn.to/3LJwLPI
Dremel Cutoff Tool Assortment: amzn.to/3QaRX3X
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UA-cam NOTES:
1) This video complies with the UA-cam Community Guidelines and Terms of Service.
2) Soundtracks and sound effects provided with permission by my video editing suite, Camtasia.
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//NON-AFFILIATE LINKS:
These items are not available at Amazon. You're better off getting these in-person at Lowes or Harbor Freight:
o) Roll pins assortment (Harbor Freight, $5)
o) Titanium Drill Bit Set Of Four, 1/16 inch: (Harbor Freight, $4)
o) Threaded hex bolts with pre-drilled hole (www.aliexpress...)
o) 5mm x 30mm Cap Screw with shoulder (Buy at Lowes in person)
This video shows you how to #repair a telescope, especially a Dobsonian telescope. It shows you how to use a Dremel cutoff tool to replace a threaded lug on the spider vane assembly.
#Reflactor
Next time
Take a drillbit. And a hacksaw. 100x more easy and probebly faster.
The time you spend on asking for that lug. Getting 20 different bolts. Dremel hearing personal protection and bandages with the drillbit that broke.
You will be done in 5 min. And it probbebly is more ztraight with the hacksaw.😊
I do exactly that in the second video in that series. I use a hacksaw and a drillbit and re-create the lug pretty quickly.
Hot rod this dob . . . new favorite quote ;)
Hahaha. Glad you liked it!
Great problem solving! I can't wait for part 2!
Thanks! Part 2 is pretty packed with stuff. I'm going to have to really edit it down. Clear skies!
With the cap, it is the plasticizers in the ball or whatever (probably vinyl) that leached into the plastic cap that caused the deformation. That is the same stuff that causes the new car smell and causes the haze on the inside of car windows, especially on hot days.
That makes sense. By the time I bought the telescope, the plastic on the lid was back to being hard plastic. It was relatively easy to chisel off and sand down. I've heard that the "new car smell" is actually outgassing of not-so-healthy chemicals.
@@reflactor sure is, those chemicals are the plasticizers that give some plastics extra flexibility. Also stickiness. Restorers like Armor-all put these chemicals back on and in the plastics. I’m convinced the chemicals never before found in nature in our bodies must be affecting human, animal and plant health in ways we are only now beginning to understand.
I find your repairing old beat up telescopes fascinating. Would love to do it myself, but I have no talent, skills or tools.
I'm glad you're enjoying the videos. Restoring telescopes is a fun hobby. Right now I've got two in the queue waiting. I promise you that you can do it, especially if the right one (cheap,!) comes along. Then you don't have much to lose if something goes wrong. Clear skies!
I HIGHLY reccomend getting a small lathe. With a lathe not only would making the pin have been a 10 minute job, but if needed, you could have made the knurled nut, too.
Its the single most useful tool in my garage.
It’s awesome to watch likeminded people work on things, it’s like you’re reading my mind lol .
Thanks! It's fun to work on these telescopes and accessories (and fix them).
Looking forward to part II 😃
Thanks for watching!
Trains, planes and you even got the Automobile hahahaha. Good catch on the spider vane!
It's very noisy here. I have to record and go, go, go during the brief quiet times, lol.
You learned things. You may have spent much more money than you needed to, but you gained really good knowledge.
For drilling the hole, to make easier to center, i would probably 3D print a jig that would have a hex head recess to keep it from rotating, and drill before I cut the head off and the slot.
If i were trying to thread the bar the way you did, I'd probably again make a 3D printed jig that would let me clamp it down in the vise.
In the end, this was one of those projects where you have to spend a lot of money to learn that you don't need to spend a lot of money. Later on, I was able to reproduce the same threaded lug using a fine-tooth hack saw. However, I'm a huge fan of 3D printing, so I appreciate your method.
Thanks for the replies and thanks for these videos. I'm very new to the hobby. I just got my new Skywatcher 8" Dobsonian/Newtonian in today, which is my first serious telescope and I'm attending my first meeting with a local Astro club tonight. I was previously trying to get by and learn with a 70mm Refractor from Celestron... Which I'm not skilled enough to overcome it's limitations. I did some mods that I came up with to make the mount and tripod infinitely more useable, using things I just had lying around. Any further improvement would cost money, and most likely be in eyepieces and... It seemed like decent eyepieces would cost as much as the scope, so I decided if I'm gonna invest money, I'm gonna get something that I don't have to fight as much.
I'm probably going to order those knurled thumbscrews from Bob's Knobs. I did my first collimation with a laser collim earlier aaaand... I can immediately see why you're such a fan.
Anyway, I love taking things that are pretty good and making worthwhile upgrades for not a lot of money. I've turned a lot of used and mid-range gear in other hobbies like guitar/bass and turntables into stuff that could compete with much more expensive stuff... So, I'm immediately a fan of your channel!
Excellent video! Thank you very much. Your solution helps me a lot in building my telescope.
Happy to help. Thank you for watching. Good luck on your build project!
Clever man good job🤙🏻
Thanks for watching. This was a fun restoration.
As somebody who does the same, getting busted-up used telescopes for cheap and hot-rodding them, this is serious zen stuff for me.
Who would've thought that restoring them could be so fun?
Awesome video!! Part 2 should be fun.🤙🏻
Thanks! I'm working on it now and will need to do some serious editing.
I would have used a drill press and a hack saw. But the black machine bold looks excellent!
You're one step ahead of me. In the next video, I talk about how I did exactly as you suggest - I used a hacksaw with a 32-teeth/inch blade and was able to reproduce the black lug bolt replacement in about 30 minutes. Much cheaper that way!
I have the Orion XT10i and need to get some of those knobs! Very good video. I look forward to part 2. PS. Really makes me nervous seeing you work on that tube vertically. I always place mine near horizontal to avoid dropping something down onto the primary.)
You are doing it correctly. Mine was tilted at about 30 degrees, but to be safe I really should've tilted it more. Once you get Bob's Knobs, you can throw that allen wrench away. I don't even look at the knobs while I'm collimating. You can do it by feel.
Now if my arms were only two feet longer, I could adjust the primary mirror while looking into the focuser. lol @@reflactor
@@reflactor, I figured it was camera angle, not looking down the tube from the ceiling.
@@MrGp3po I eventually got the laser collimator (which itself needed collimating) to help with this task.
"I'll move this blade out of the way so I don't injure myself."
I think you're ok. Looks like you'd have to hack your way though about 1/2 an inch of Bandaids before you got close to risking an injury.
LOL, this was a fun project.
Instead of a dremel to cut the slot I think a needle file or a jewelers saw would work also. I’d still start with the shouldered bolt and cut the head off but than I’d take a block of wood and drill and tap a 5mm hole in it with a drill press that way I have a way to hold the bolt and it will be perfectly straight in relation to the opposite edge of the block. I would than use jig to drill a hole in the center of the bolt from the top giving me a perfectly centered hole as a guide for my saw or file that will be to the proper depth. You could than insert a small rod through the hold that the roll pin will go through in final assembly, use this rod as a guide to make the slot perpendicular.
Thank you for this comment. Your way would definitely be baster than mine. After posting the first video, I learned (through many commenters) that there are much more efficient ways to go about this. In the next video in that series, I used a fine-toothed hacksaw to create a replacement lug in probably a quarter of the time.
Great job! That was crazy about the left/right vanes. My solution would have involved a 5 mm bolt with the head inside and a u-shaped washer/bracket, but your repair was elegant, for sure. At the start, I was thinking @ as long as the main mirror is ok…”
As I've learned since posting this video, there are a lot of cleverer-than-me people who are watching. Admittedly, I retried the hacksaw method yesterday, but this time with a 32 tooth blade and it worked great. I was able to reproduce the same one shown in the video in about 30 minutes. It still destroyed the drill bit, but no Dremel tool was used.
I have missed you!, great video
Thanks! I got knocked down by covid for many weeks, so there were no new videos for a while. You can hear my nasally voice at the beginning of this video. Feeling much better now. Clear skies!
Mr. Reflactor does the Bobs Knobs interfere with the dust cap. I may get some. I have those stock allen screws and they are set and stay true. Seems like adding knobs just creates another problem that may not exist.
This is a great question. You can add Bobs Knobs to probably 95% of all Newtonians without worrying about interference with the dust cap. HOWEVER, I happen to own one of those problem telescopes. I have an Orion 14 inch Dobsonian and the dust camp is roughly 3/8 inch from the secondary mirror holder. In theory I could carefully trim the length of some thumb screws, but that's putting it too close. The nice thing about Bob's Knobs is that you can throw that allen wrench away. I collimate without even looking (the thumb screws are easy for my fingers to find).
I love taking safety advice from someone wearing three band-aids on three different fingers.
I’d listen to him, he’s clearly done it the wrong way first and paid the price hahah
There are company's that makes sollid spiders for the secondary mirror.
Do they fit in existing Orion Dob mount holes? That would be very useful.
Well done simple Hacksaw would do straighter cut, instead inhaling the carbon discs. the spider vane how that got true inspections at the factory. anything near the sider vanes that shiny should be painted black. great Dobsonian fixer you are amazing. how many now 3 you have good wife.🔭🏅👏
The hacksaw would be a good option, but I thought my hacksaw would be too thick for the proper slot. My Dob count ebbs and flows as I run out of room, lol.
Man i bet it took a few hours and almost your hand trying to get that telescope fixed, you definitely had a lot of bandages in that right hand. Great video as always, i was wondering what happened to you, its been a long time with no videos
Thanks for watching! No serious injuries, just scrapes. :) I think that video started out with about 3 hours of footage to edit down. Over the summer I couldn't record very many videos because of the extreme heat - it was 108 degrees almost every day for two months and my camera overheated every time I used it for more than 10 minutes (I put it in the fridge to cool down). Five weeks ago I got covid and that put a real damper on video production - in fact near the beginning you can hear me still sounding nasally while recovering.
Interesting video
This was a fun one to make.
You could try threading the clevis pin before drilling and slotting it.
You are absolutely correct. The trick would be to not mar the end with the pre-drilled hole. Perhaps mounting it into a drill chuck would solve that problem?
I would try putting padding between the jaws of the vise grips and the pin to avoid marring the pin.
Sorry, I'm flying low here
Padding vice -grips- done
Thanks! I was looking for those myself and they're just nowhere to be had!!!
Happy to help! I was surprised that nobody sold these. They must be a very custom production run by Orion (or GSO or whoever makes their equipment). For something so simple, it sure took a lot of time, lol. Clear skies!
@reflactor next time try finding out who their authorised repairer is for warranty repairs and contact them for replacement parts. Often thise guys will stock the fiddly small parts that are not sold as spares on the websites of the manufacturers. But all your attempts were fine. A nice video and now i will watch part 2.
I've seen some 3d printable designs for Dremel cutoff saw attacments.
That sounds interesting.
Good video. You probably could have used a 1/16th diamond drill for your Dremel instead of going through the hassle of hand drilling any of those. That step is definitely the least beginner friendly :)
Thanks for the tip! I was worried about several of these steps because I don't have the right equipment. I guess I got lucky and the third one was the charm! Clear skies!
The black bolt would be black oxide. As for the damage on the 3rd bolt, don't cut the slot until you tap it. You can put a pin in the hole then put that end in a vise to tap it. then cut the slot. I drill 6 0.5mm holes in M8 bolt heads, slow and easy gets the job done. Great video. I have a Orion XTi10 and would like to make it a goto. I have the hand controller with the 2 star alignment. But how do I make my scope a goto like yours?
All good tips. In Part 2 to this video series, I redid this threaded lug, starting with the cap screw, but using a hacksaw with a fine-tooth blade. I was able to reproduce the threaded lug in less than half an hour. Orion made three styles of Dobsonian. The simplest was the manually moved XT series - no electronics whatsoever. Then they had the XTi Intelliscope series where YOU provided the motive power, guided by the hand controller. Then they had the XTg GoTo systems which were commanded and controlled by the SynScan hand controller. There are after-market kits to turn manual Dobs into GoTo systems, but they look like a lot of work to me. I've had all three and the XTi Intelliscopes are probably my favorites because the guidance system is so extremely robust and accurate. I've got my eyes open for an XT8i, but those are very rare. Thanks for watching!
Far easier and more accurate to cut the slot with a hacksaw. Also investing in a pillar drill is a massively useful piece of kit!
Thanks! I think I'll give the hacksaw another try - I was worried it would cut too big of a slot. Clear skies!
Great video J.D. .Now your learning how to be a machinist. Looks like that Dremil bit you a few times😅. Good job and clear skys.
Thanks for watching! I learned a few machining skills many years ago, but back then I had access to a milling machine. Now I have a Dremel, haha.
I got a little brother who is a machinist journey man by trade. Teaches me all kinds of stuff. Have fun and clear sky's from the beautiful swamps of South La.
Haha, enjoy the swamps!
It Sure looks like the END OF A Hack saw , The part that holds the saw on the Hack saw 🤔
I'm surprised you could not find veins for a truss-tube scope. Seen many exactly like this one (and I do have an 8" Orion Dob myself), although mine uses all original nuts and bolts. For that to fall apart, it has to be taken an abusive amount of force.
I looked. Even considered switching to a new spider system. I'm pretty sure it left the factory with that odd extra vane which made proper spider adjustment impossible without over-stressing the whole setup (and causing the tension pin to snap).
Great video. Did you try telescope warehouse?
No, I didn't. However, I've looked through their offerings and these lugs weren't among them (as far as I can tell). Thanks for watching!
Hacksaw blade tensioner?😊
That very well could be a good solution! I didn't even think about that even though there's a hack saw less than two feet from where this was all recorded.
O Man, why did you not make the tube horizontal when working on the secondary mirror. If it is vertical, will every drop of any bolt hurt your primary mirror?
Good point. I generally try to put it at an angle so that anything that falls will slide down the tube. There's a one inch buffer all around the primary mirror, but you have a very valid concern.
one sixteenth inch whatever .... much easier to say the size in millimeters.
I am slowly making the transition to metric. :) Clear skies!
Wow. Three lefts and a right spider vane. That's pretty sloppy. Regardless, every individual part should be available to the end user, but aren't. (The primary mirror cooling fan plug on my Apertura AD12 appears to be proprietary, and the battery pack was missing when I got it... I'll replace the receptacle end when I get a generic rechargeable battery pack). Orion, like all the brands, buys the tube and optics, but should quality check everything on arrival instead of simply stacking boxes for orders.
I was pretty shocked too. I suspect it explains why the threaded lug was broken in the first place - the previous owner had tried to "make it work" despite having the defective parts. Fortunately, for your fan, the hole locations are pretty standard so you could either buy a new fan with a different connector, or install your own connectors and a custom battery pack.
I would appreciate everyone's help deciding. I have looked at Apertures dobsonian telescope i can't decide which one I should get the 8" or 10". I keep on looking at the focal ratio
8" F/5.9
10" F/4.9
I am not going to be doing any real Arthrography at ALL just taking a picture on my phone that is about as close i will get to that. But i just want to see some deep space objects like nebulaus and galaxies. I know they aren't going to be like from James webb telescope. Fyi this is going to be my first real telescope. I currently have a Celestron Omni az102 telescope 4" its focal ratio is f/6.5. which one should I get!?
Heey! Mr. Refactor, I bought a use SS 114 Explorer for the SS tube mount thinking it would fit on my 8" Dob but the curvature of mount is to small and will not sit flush on the tube. I need help with ideas to retrofit the mount or Is it possible to 3D print a StarSense Explorer base mount for an 8" Dobsonian? tube?
Somebody on Thingiverse.com designed a mount that fits into the standard Dovetail viewfinder mount. Would this work for you? www.thingiverse.com/thing:4868065
Is there a particular brand of 8in dobsonian telescope you prefer for a newcomer to use
A good question. My favorite has always been the Orion XT8, but they've cheapened the production while raising prices recently. As far as accessories go, it's hard to beat the Apertura 8 inch Dob. Keep an eye on the used markets (Facebook Marketplace, Offerup, and Craigslist). A used Orion XT8 just sold near me this week for $150. That's unusually cheap though - you can find them for about $300 used. Just be sure to watch my video on how to buy a used telescope.
@@reflactor Thank you so much for your time, effort, in making your videos! You have taught me and my son (10yr) lots of helpful information and you have made learning about telescopes fun and entertaining. I will be looking into the Apertura 8in dobsonian telescope. I have been looking at Facebook marketplace for telescopes but most of them are pretty far from us. We plan on doing many of your upgrades shown in your videos! Can't wait!
How would you compare the 10” to the 12”
Good question. Of all the telescopes that I've used over the years, the best quality mirror was in an Orion 10 Inch Goto (the automated big brother to this one). However, as far as light-gathering capability goes, here in the city it's not much of a difference between 10 and 12 inch.
I recently got a 12” dobsonian and I’m in a bortle 6
Through my 8” with an oiii filter the veil nebulas were faintly visible, but in the 12” the veils are pretty much obvious
That makes sense. In a Bortle 6, you should get good benefit from sizing up. Here in Bortle 8 (where I am), it's not much of a difference.
I just saw a red Coulter 13" Dob for sale for $200, but the owner says the mirror needs recoating. It looks about $5-600 for recoating. Not sure it is worth it.
Back in May of 2021, I paid $175 to have my 12 inch mirror (and diagonal) recoated using Jeff Deckers' company Majestic Optical Coatings out of Ruckersville, Virginia. It's been fantastic ever since.
I would LOVE to fined something like that 13” DOB.
I have a 12-y/o niece who has discovered the stars.
They moved out to the country!
They also discovered that StarBase was a 30-min drive.
AND they got to watch, and hear, and feel, StarShip’s Raptors heading skyward.
OMG! Tell me you didn't buy all that stuff to make that part? A tap and die set and all those various parts?? It had to cost you as much for that stuff as you paid for the scope! I'm just an amateur handy man and I could have gone to the local hardware and gotten a roll pin and a bolt, assuming I already didn't have them, for maybe $2 and made that! Still... that vane not being correct was strange... someone who originally built that scope screwed up! You fixed it the same way I would have!
Well, I didn't own a tap & die kit, so it worked out okay, lol. This weekend, I followed the advice of some viewers and used a 32-tooth hack saw and that did a pretty good job. I was able to reproduce the part in about 1/2 hour starting with the black cap screw. The drill bits are still wrecked after one use though. Thank you for watching!
@@reflactor It was a great video and I enjoyed watching it! I don't have a tap and die set either but I'm slowly getting one cause every time I need a tap or die I don't have I go and buy it! lol I should just go to the chinese parts store and get me a set and be done with it!
Can't u just print a support for it ?
There's a lot of tension in these supports and I don't think the plastic from my 3D printer would hold.
I think that you over think to solve the problem its spring steel so use hacksaw blade with teeth ground down and just use a bolt cut head of cut slot drill hole for sizr of roll spring pin you're over thinking to much 😂😂😂
You're two steps ahead of me. Between this video (Part 1) and the follow-on video (Part 2), I used a hacksaw to cut the slot and it worked great. I talk about it in the follow-on video.
Have you heard of the humble hacksaw - It works great when cutting slots. It goes a little slower but is nice and controllable.
Funny story. I first tried a hacksaw, but it had very coarse teeth and did a bad job. After the first video, I bought a fine-toothed hacksaw and it did a great job. In fact, I re-created the lug using just a drill bit and a fine-toothed hacksaw. More info about that in the second video.
The diamond dremel bits are great. They are actually for cutting glass
I didn't know that. I love my Dremel tool.
Next time you're doing something let me know I'll see if i can think it out for you if you like know problem
I appreciate it! I put the "amateur" in amateur astronomer. Although I try to use streamlined methods, I sometimes end up brute forcing things. Make sure to watch the four parts to this series. :)
Ps if it's harden steel heat up let cool at room temp then its soft drill then heat up dip in oil job done easy peasy 😂😂
That's a good tip. I thought the cap-head screws would be harder than they were. I was able to hack-saw through them.
3D printing is always a good solution :)
It's a lot of fun.
As long as you are including safety tips, you might want to mention that the parts you are cutting become very hot during the process. Wearing gloves or at least using pliers to handle the parts for a while after the cutting process (as it seems you did) will avoided burns. Also, I wonder if using the cap screws would it be possible just to skip cutting off the head. It would avoid a cut and perhaps make the slot more robust, though it seems it might matter where the through hole needs to be.
You've shown me how lucky I was, I had this exact same problem on the 8" Orion Intelliscape and found someone on eBay that had a Orion 8" spider vane for sale. He kept the secondary mirror and mount I did not need and sold me the vane and attachment nuts for only 20.00. I was pleased with it, the entire vane was in much better shape than the original one had been. What a great deal.
Wow! Were you the original owner? Did it come like that? I suspect that this one came from the factory like that, with the wrong set of vanes.
@@reflactor No, I bought the Intelliscape for only 50.00 and the only problem was the spider vane was missing the attached parts. I had found a fix for it, but I wanted original Orion parts and got them from the guy on eBay that sells replacement parts and when the spider came it was in great shape, not a bit twisted, which the original one was.
You got the deal of the century! I can tell you that I paid much more for my 8 inch Intelliscope, lol, but.... it's a fantastic telescope.
Do you have a tool maker friend? He could make that lug you need...
Unfortunately I don't. I tried this one more time (results shown in the next video of that series) and found that a fine-tooth hacksaw did the trick.
@@reflactor you did a great job on that lug. That turned out to be a good scope. I got a Mead 2045 sc last fall. I had it out for the eclips, even took some pictures with it ( I have a camera bracket too) they turned out well. Your bringing me back to astronomy. I love to watch your videos. Thanks for all you do. We appreciate it.
Thank you for watching! I make these videos for fun when I have time (my dayjob is completely unrelated).
ScopeStuff is your friend for all things small pieces and parts.
I didn't mention it in the video, but I contacted them too. They have a lot of great stuff, but even they didn't have these lugs unfortunately.
Bob's Knobs must be a division of Bob Bobs Law from Arrested Development
Haha, as a big fan of that show, I never even thought to make that connection. Bob's Knobs makes a fine product. :)
That is Bob Loblaw,
OMG John what are you doing with 3 band aids on that right hand about 20 minutes into your video? Maybe fabrication is not for you. LOL But I’m glad you figured it out.
LOL, 'tis but a scratch. :)
But of course. I do find your videos interesting and informative. I always root for the guy that goes where no man has gone before.
Thank you for the amazing videos, hard to believe something quite simple turns into such a big job
Agreed. I was hoping it would be super simple. Without a supplier or source, it became a big job. Thank you for watching.
great fix John thats alot work for a tiny issue but you did it thanks for sharing
Hi Joe, thanks for watching. It was a lot of fun because I had no idea what I was doing and just stumbling toward the solution, lol.