Why Do More Jazz Players Play Gibson 175s & Not Les Pauls?
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- Опубліковано 11 вер 2024
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Youngman, I'm pretty sure that you could take any guitar no matter it value and make beautiful music. I'm a fan for life. God Bless and keep you safe Sir.
Check out a video titled 'Everybody Ought to Know Who Jesus Is' by Walter Rodrigues Jr .On the video he plays a Squire Telecaster in a jazz style with wonderful results !
Im not a jazzer but I prefer the sound of the les paul.
I have only les Paul’s. Strung and set up properly and run into an all tube amp with a twelve inch speaker, a fantastic jazz tone can come from a les Paul. The warmth and fullness and clarity is outstanding. My favorite amp is a fender tweed deluxe. Coincidentally also a great blues combination. Another bonus for the les Paul is that it looks a lot nicer than a telecaster 🥰 but your right, any guitar set up properly and played through a amp which focuses on warmth and fullness will produce a lovely jazz sound!
ted greene /end
@@esdenaze huj
I play Les Paul's and an ES 339. But when I was little boy my music teacher played an ES 175. It was beautiful. A little hard for me to fret but he would let me play it. I think I was 12 years old when he gave me a 1967 Epiphone Sorrento. And I learned a lot of my jazz technique there on that instrument. Of course, I also learn some rock music because I thought the girls would really really like me then. I'm still working on that by the way. But I've learned over the years that it's really subjective as far as the sound you're trying to accomplish. The next girlfriend said no matter what guitar I play I still sound like me. She was a pianist and a singer and she said she could pick my playing out of a crowd anytime. But to her ear she could not tell whether I was praying a Les Paul, a hollow body, or strat. Well I'm saying is, for an individual's best performance they should play whatever guitar they feel most comfortable with. If you love jazz but feel more comfortable playing a telecaster, that's the instrument you should play jazz on because that's the instrument that you express yourself the best
@Alan Hollis well said. You’re gonna sound like you no matter what you’re playing. It’s all subjective. Much of the expression is coming from your hands. Les Paul, Telecaster, ES 345? It doesn’t matter. You play what feels good to you.
I'd love a serento
I played jazz on my SG and it sounds absolutely wonderful.. for some people, they just can’t stand the look and association with heavy music.. while the truth is, it is very suitable for jazz as well as VERY VERY COMFORTABLE GUITAR.. it’s so light..
I never liked SG’s for that heavy metal association … just got a vintage SG Custom (Les Paul). Wow, I was so wrong… great guitars & yes, excellent for Jazz too.
Do you ever play on the bridge pup and near the bridge to get a bright sound?
@@davetbassbos I mainly play on the neck PU. If I need it to be brighter, I roll down the volume and turn on a drive pedal as a boost..
I have seen many great jazz players with Les Pauls but I agree with you it probably has something to do with the culture around a musical genre, you want to be seen playing "the right guitar" for the particular music you like to play and be taken as a serious player. I have wide range of guitars and I like to explore how they might sound in different types of music. As I listen to guitar players from around the world its amazing how different and wonderful the same guitar like the Les Paul sounds when it's played in the music from all the different cultures that are out there. Between different tunings and playing styles it's truly amazing.
I love both sounds. That said, at moderate volume, the note envelope doesn’t “bloom” on the Les Paul the way it does on the hollow body. The LP comes into it’s own when you crank the amp up. Also, that mid-push on the 175 helps with clarity for chord solos and double stops.
Yeah! The BLOOM!
Well said. Love it.
I agree totally with your comments. I also own an ES 175, but I also play jazz on my Fender Telecaster. Your Les Paul sounds excellent and it's totally suitable for jazz. It's the same thing with the Telecaster, but very famous few jazz guitarists have played a Tele except for the great Ed Bickert. Howard Roberts also used one a lot. Ed and Howard certainly showed that it's the musician who makes the sound, not the guitar.
strat also
That’s a nice Heritage H-150.
Gibson may have stopped production of jazz boxes but Heritage, Eastman and Ibanez have great arch top guitars available that sound as good as the ES-175 and L5. Not forgetting Benedetto, Godin and others as well.
I agree...just play what you got! I ran into a video this morning of Jimi Hendrix playing a Les Paul...and guess what? It sounded exactly like Jimi Hendrix! So much of your tone is in your fingers.
The LP is so underrated for jazz; I agree, it’s mostly tradition.
I'm yet to hear a good reason why a form of music based on musical experimentation would restrict itself to precisely the sound of Wes Montgomery. It's baffling. I don't think there is a reason. Jazz players especially should have the full range of sounds available to them. (And this includes all the pedals)
First of all, you're a fantastic player, you have melodies down pat, and are more than at home in both rhythm and lead playing. Great technique too! As to your observations about a Les Paul vs. a ES175, to me, it's a little more than "tradition" or "sound" as to either guitar. Jazz players, for the most part, sit down when they play. A 175 or any kind of a archtop is much more comfortable to play for jazz, easy to get a hold of, sits on the thigh just the right way and balances pretty good. Your arms don't have to stress and strain to both hold the guitar and play it, whereas, a Les Paul would require more work to do that, even if a strap is used while sitting. I remember when I was taking lessons, my teacher was a jazz guitarist who also did a lot of studio work. He had a absolutely beautiful 1943 Super 400, and one day, I was having trouble with a chord progression on my Yamaha acoustic. He said; "Here, play it on the Super 400". And then, of course....AHHHHHHHHHHHHH! And he had flatwounds on it to boot! That chord progression was soooooooooo EASY on that beautiful guitar!
I've been playing my Les Paul for 30 years now, there's one thing that doesn't work for me: you cannot strum open chords on it without using a good EQ. On my ES-175 I can play as if it was an acoustic, without changing the amp setting. Even with overdrive you hear the body.
I bought a Les Paul specifically for playing clean, as I absolutely LOVE the rich, complex, yet clear clean tone. I agree that the expectations (both of the audience and the player) of what a "jazz guitar" looks like is the main driver away from the Les Paul for jazz. However, I also find two very practical reasons why it may not be preferred: 1) The LP sustains noticeably longer than an ES175, and has more potential to make complex chord progressions sound murky and indistinct. 2) Many, if not most, jazz players play while seated. The LP sits very low in the lap, and is typically very butt-heavy, causing it to slide off the leg if one tries to raise the neck to a comfortable position for complex playing. There are ways around this, of course, but sitting with a Les Paul takes a bit of adjustment.
A lot of Jazz guitar players are now playing PRS SE Hollow body guitars nice and small, light weight, yet still has the warm tone and cost a heck of a lot less than a Gibson ES175. Excellent presentation and superb guitar playing.
They have a wonderful built-in tone and a quality feel
Sweet playing! I remember a Guitar Player Magazine interview with Barney Kessel in the early '70's where he expressed his dislike for solid body guitars because all he could feel through them were "little thumps" instead of more resonant vibrations. I have a '57 single pickup Gretsch Streamliner hollow body (laminate maple) that resonates nicely, has no dead notes, and is hard to put down. It definitely has some "magic." But if I didn't own that I'd be quite satisfied with the tones and feel of my Squier Bullet Telecaster with a Duncan Jazz humbucker in the neck position. Great music can be made on both.
👍
How did you fit a humbucker in it?
@@danieli.9252 - Fortunately, the Squier body was already routed to fit a humbucker. I picked up an after-market pickguard, and the rest was easy. I followed Fender's schematic for a humbucker/single coil Tele configuration, which, as I remember required the addition of a balancing resistor, and also changing over to 500K pots.
I had the privilege of seeing Les Paul play live at The Iridium. After that, don't really need a lot of convincing. It may not be "quintessential" jazz, but damn! I'm glad there's a lot of different guitars out there... but I always end up back on a LP.
Larry Carlton, Lee Ritenour, and Robben Ford come to mind as great players who occasionally strap on a Les Paul. I've had my
175 almost 50 years, and its tone is unmatched in my somewhat excessive collection. At 19, I plugged my '68 175 into a Showman stack, and learned right then that it could feedback for days! I was a kid and grabbed it. I now have most of the holy grail axes, and none outshine the 175S{single pickup} in terms of sweet tone. I use 8's on all my electrics and 9's on my acoustics cuz I refuse to fight my guitars. The 175 is a forever guitar for me. Not being strictly a jazz guy, it"s not right for every situation, but it always gets love from other players no matter where I take it. I once had the privilege of playing the late and great Mel Brown's Super 400, which amazing, but whenI knew him he played a 175 almost exclusively. It's not just a poor man's L5. It's a glorious instrument.
Video title really hit the right algorithmic/rhythmic note and glad to see so many ppl enjoying your playing.
Semi Hollow is a bit more resonant and everyone just kinda stuck with it. Ofcourse you make it sound awesome.
There's history in that tone but it's also a key to unlock the power of the future!!! Peace and blessings
JUST YESTERDAY, STILL FEELS LIKE TODAY, I PICKED UP MY ES 135. LOVING IT.
There’s a small but still distinct acoustic and woody sound from a hollowbody. I have a semi-hollow Gibson Howard Roberts Fusion (also laminate wood) and it sounds not like my old Les Paul, even if I would not say there’s a huge difference.
Absolutely agree with you! It is all about tradition. Jazz players and blues players archtops was because that was what was available to them in the earliest days of jazz and jazz was THE popular music of the US back then. And country players did the same, since the only guitar soloists popular when they were growing up were jazz players (Christian, Reinhardt, Barnes, etc.) Jazz, and the musicians who played jazz, continued to exert a lot of influence over popular music long after jazz declined as popular music. But just as laminated guitars generally amplify better than carved top guitars, solid body guitars generally amplify better than laminated hollow guitars. They have less "issues", whether that is feedback or large variations in tone.
Ed Bickert made a telecaster sound like a Jazz guitar, even before he installed a hum-bucker in the neck position….it’s partially in the guitar, but mostly in the hands..
I love Ed's music. I have actually ab'd his sound with the single coil neck pickup and his installed humbucker later on in his life and there is no big discernible difference. It's 90% plus in the hands and players like Ed can make whatever they play sound great.
I’m an ES175 over LP player, but in addition to Les, jazz guitarists Julian Lage and Clint Strong made a LP sound great.
You know that spot when you see somebody play, and you go back and forth between being inspired to practice more and using your guitar as a step stool? Yeah.
The Les Paul when introduced was a "signature guitar" and Gibson's answer to the Telecaster. Les Paul's popularity at that point was enormous i am sure truly helped legitimize the guitar. Les even had his own TV show.
Great playing Man! ... Yes, tradition probably has the most to do with it. A great Jazz player will get suitable tones from almost anything ... so yes, tradition mainly!
I think people listen with their eyes quite a bit. No reason you can't play an SG or 335, 339. The main differences between guitars are between humbuckers vs single coils, vs P90's. You are the sound. You sound very good.
I think some if it is tradition because the ES-175 has more of the look and feel of the ES-150 that Charlie Christion played and they were affordable. I also think the 175 has a little more of a percussive quality then a Les Paul. Jim Hall played a Les Paul for a short period and said it felt too cold to him. I don't own a 175, but I have used them at times going as far back as the mid 70s and I love ES-175s.
That's a very good question because the Les Paul is an excellent choice for jazz.
ES-175s are the best. I prefer the ones with a single P-90 pickup. The ES-125s are great too. I play blues myself. I like the Harmony made H50 or Artisan archtops which have P13 pickups and are killer for blues,rockabilly,and jazz. Gibson made a big mistake not continuing the ES-175. I play National Duolians and was delighted when Don Young kick started National Resophonic back up. Cary in Tucson.
Les Paul was and played Jazz originally. one thing i did not like about a hollow body is that when you play a note you hear the note coming from the hollowbody and the amp. i like a solid body because you hear more of the sound coming directly from the "electric" part of the guitar - STings to amp directly. something to consider if you are looking to get a hollowbody or semi hollow body. good luck
It's subtle, but the 175 has more presence in the frequencies that matter for Jazz. The slighter darker LP is fine for open chords and power chords. Anyway, your playing is incredible.
The hollow body makes the difference. It's not that I love one over the other; but I can understand that the tone of a hollow body guitar is more appealing in a jazz context.
Great post. I think it's tradition (or influence, or looks) but also ergonomics. Les Paul was a small guy, and the guitar was designed for his body. I chose an Eastman 371 (175 knockoff) and hold it like a classical guitar. If I want to play a different style, I'll gravitate towards a guitar that projects the image of that style, and supports that style, but that doesn't send me to the physiotherapist.
Ok. I like it. For me the 175 just sounds better for this style of music as well as again for me just a more friendly guitar to play sitting down.
While we’re at it I actually prefer a telecaster for jazz even a strat over a LP. At the end of the day play what you like the best for the music you’re playing.
Great playing.
Has anyone ever watched Les Paul play? Seems every jazz guitar player with the 175 mindset needs an education. I noticed one commenter wrote about "Les Paul invented the Les Paul hence a Jazz guitar." I have played Jazz on a Gibson Sunburst V..."The V" people were shocked at the sound...why? It's the player as much as the guitar.
Kudos to you for playing what you Love..
I'm glad to see that you are using flat-wound strings on your ES-175; at least, it appears that way due to the red threads wrapped around the tuning posts. I'm one of the last (heavy) flat-wound hold-outs, and I don't even play jazz.
This is an interesting topic of discussion which could go a bit deeper. I agree with you that tradition is one of the reasons hollow bodies are so prevalently used by jazz guitarists; but, I fervently believe, that the main reason is snobbery. In my nearly 40 years of being a guitarist, I have yet to meet a jazz guitarist or a guitarist who plays other genres as well, use, or prefer to use a solid body over a big hollow body. Now, there are exceptions to this: Les Paul, as you mentioned comes to mind; another solid body user, is Mike Stern, who is famous for playing jazz on a Telecaster.
Both the Les Paul and the Telecaster were actually intended for jazz guitarists: they were intended to reduce the the problem of feedback that hollow bodies posed; they were also designed to be used with and left the factory with heavy flat-wound strings, with wound Gs.
Both Les Paul and Leo Fender were formulating the concept of a solid body guitar together, as they were friends. Leo even made Les a business offer, but Less refused it as he din't want to ruin is affiliation with Gibson; Leo completely understood, and took no offense.
Ted McCarty said that Les Paul was more involved with Epiphone prior to his involvement with Gibson.
The were other BIG hollow body manufacturers at the time besides Gibson. In New York, many jazz and session guitarists were using Epiphone, Gretsch, Gulid, and instruments made by the more pricey craftsman, D'Angelico, who all just happened to located be in New York at the time.
I was always under the impression the the pre-eminent "jazz guitar" was the Gibson L-5; even Wes Montgomery used them primarily throughout his career, even during the same time period while he was using the ES-175. If any jazz guitarist would like to chime in here to confirm or deny this, please do.
Special mention must be given to Grant Green: he used neither the L-5, nor the ES-175; he most notably used the Gibson ES-330, as well as L-7 McCarty, the Epiphone Emperor, and D'Aquisto New Yorker.
In the end, when all is said and done, use whatever guitar you prefer for whatever music you chose to use it for.
Yess. I have an 54 custom reissue with flats and a 56 goldtop with flats that I play jazz on. I also have a washburn j6 that I adore too. They're all great. Nice playing.
I love that sound and am working out how to play those tones and LP. Is he using special amp setting or pedals?
I honestly believe many guitarists pick their guitars by the looks. They want to look like their heros. The sound matters as well, of course, they want to sound like their heros, too. But soundwise, at least for jazz, the difference between ES175 and Les Paul is actually not that much. It is really insane how everyone is playing Les Pauls, ES175s, Teles and Strats, all designs that go back more than 60 years. Not so many people drive cars that are similar to 60 year old cars.
The 175 had instant Jazz tone when you switched, Has a dry sound distinctive
I think you are incredible. Great playing. Finally someone I can enjoy listening to. Michael Newell from Niagara Falls, Ontario
I used hollow-body big “jazz” guitars for years, but my feeling was that something was missing, especially when playing in a combo (even a small one, say, guitar, piano, bass and drums). After years, I realized that I got tired of the traditional jazz sound. IMO, the reason is that the sound traditional jazz boxes does not blend ok in the mix with a band. It tends to clash with the bass frequencies, also tends to sound too pianistic. Your range in terms of dynamics is much more limited (try compare with a tenor). So, more than a guitar, I changed radically and started using the bridge pickup, tone control open. It was a life change moment for me. I’m not talking about fusion overdriven sound. I mean, the clean bridge pickup sound. I keep my phrasing, but now I cut much better through the band. I feel my playing sounding much more horn like. Yes, that’s something that has been used by blues players for many years. My main guitars became a Les Paul and a Tele (as I said, treble pickup).
OTOH, where I believe big jazz boxes sound great is when your are playing solo or in a duo situation with a horn player or a singer, exactly because now you’re supposed to play also the bass lines, comp more pianistically, etc.
Barney Kessel played with Charlie Parker's band - full of many different kinds of musicians, yet Barney's playing cut through the mix quite well anyways. Just saying......
@@pharmerdavid1432 : So did Wes in different band configurations, Benson, etc. I’m talking about play live, not recordings. Also, I don’t want create any kind of new rule or standard. Just sharing an experience that was very important to me. What I describe is basically a blues tone with a jazz language. Perhaps, that’s not your thing, what is ok.
M
fwiw, les paul had one of the thinner tones i've ever heard from a les paul. he knew exactly where he wanted to sit in the mix. shoutout goes to jimmy page for honorable mention, there are many tones he got in the studio that people think are a telecaster but aren't. half the tracks on LZII are his #1 '59, and a lot of the tracks have overdubs crossing sessions so there are tracks with both les paul and telecaster. LZIII - Physical Graffiti are predominately the Les Paul. A couple odd tracks have a telecaster or the danelectro or a fender xxii but it's mostly his first '59 Les Paul. 50's wiring cuts bass and low mids as you roll the volume knobs down. late 50s les paul standards cop telecaster tone for days if you work the knobs. the maple cap helps too. watch some live zeppelin tapes and notice how jimmy rolls the volume off a little and gets some sick twangy tones out of a les paul. it's great
Having a game of golf in sweats can often be far more comfortable than regular pants. A telecaster makes beautiful jazz music if you plug it in... ... To the right artist.
I’m not a Jazz player but as a guitar player I find it an excellent question!
Nice style. You made me remember when I was given a heavy silver bracelet which I wore on my right wrist and it used to make a loud percussive sound when I hit the bridge. I was told people liked it so I did some flamenco style knocks which sounded great with some reverb. I know its nowt to do with the topic but The 175 was known by us sproggs as the "Joe Pass" guitar..we were 14/15 and playing noisy garage stuff...once in a while a "Jazz dude" would blow our minds with Miles Davis and Coltrane stuff played on his 175. Just for interest..Gibson did a gold 175 with those white p90 pickup known as the "Scotty More" ES295. Same guitar but gold as far as we knew. Only ever saw 1 in London in the late 80's. Your channel is hip, a the cats say it's the pen here in a UK! For intimate club gigs the 175 can sound warm and soulfull. I even heard Nile Rodgers played one too?
It is more about the "look" or "style"! Tradition is strong! More people play Jazz on Telecasters than Les Paul even if the Les Paul is maybe a solid body 175!
Interesting. No mention of Gibson 345, 355, 335. I have heard all of these in a Jazz context...with posh flat wound strings and they sound really jazzy and look kinda slim jazzy. Nice vid with historical insight. Thank you. 😊😊
Many choose 175s because it's a tradition already, modelling themselves after their jazz heroes. Pretty much the biggest reason behind 175s jazz players.
I have LPs, but haven’t explored the jazz tones possible with it. I will now thanks to you. I still want a 175 though. I hope Gibson will bring it back. The used ones are crazy prices.
Excellent player!! I enjoyed watching your video and I’m a big jazz fan. I own a Les Paul but I am a blues player and works well for my playing style.
yes I think you’re right about getting a jazzy tone on just about any Guitar I think George Benson sounds like George Benson on the guitar even though he played a Les Paul. The famous guitarist Ed Bickert played a fender telecaster with a humbucker and I think he played it also without as well and his tone is just incredible it doesn’t quite sound like an archtop it it sounds mellow and so you know. I think an arch top with flat wound strings can sound just wonderful and it does sound better than I non-arch top guitar but you have to listen to it and all of its presentations. also if you put flatround strings on a telecaster it does approach that more mellow arch top sound
I loved when you said you can get any sound on any guitar. I found at that the more guitars I get, the less I play guitar and the more I play the guitars. If that makes any sens. Maybe the only exception might be the Strat. I challenge you to get a Strat sound on a Gibson.
I love jazz, but I don't play it. My main Idol growing up and to this day is Steve Howe, and I have his signature ES 175. A most amazing guitar. Thank you for the great video.
Both sound great. A 175 is more comfortable to play sitting down. A Les Paul is more comfortable to play standing up. Your playing is excellent on both.
You're so awesome. Thanks for the historical lessons. It's gotta be Les Paul
Excellent answer. The guitar is much less important than the player. A good guitarists can make any guitar sound good.
This is a great video and asks a very appropriate question. I have often wondered the same thing as many here have already said. I think it's bc the 175 is a lot lighter and easier to sit with than the much heavier Les Paul, and as you know the Les Paul doesn't balance to well when sitting down , the body of the guitar wants to seesaw down and the nick up, this is great for standing up with a strap on tho but sitting down there is a constant fight going on. However this said, the tone of the Les Paul is so smooth and perfect for Jazz. Just my opinion. Your playing is wonderful ! Peace !
This jazz is like hearing a person who loves talks, and do some singing
I’m YOU could get a good tone with any guitar playing Jazz. The rest of us need all the help we can get and a nice archtop is definite help. It also makes us LOOK like a jazzer.
For jazz, having tried many hollow guitars,strats,lp...I bought a 175 because it has a unique 'punchy' sax horn like voice that none of the cheaper jazz boxes do not have... I do think certain special teles come close with a horn/human punchy sound as well...
I believe that tone comes from the head the heart and the soul and comes out through the hands.
Santana will sound like Santana no matter what guitar or amp. Same thing with any great guitar player.
That said guitars do sound different. A hollow body does sound different than a solid body.
It was clear to me how much more appropriate that 175 was for that style of music than the LP.
Nice playing. I enjoyed it.
Thank you…
I don't think the ES 175 is a necessarily a quintessential jazz guitar. Sure lots of jazz guys play them, but I play an Epiphone Broadway with Classic 57s and some other mods. I also have a Tele and a 335 style. I admit the first time I saw a jazz player playing a gold top, my first reaction was "He's got the wrong guitar. Of course now I have a gold top with P90's too.
Les Paul's are Great! So are Gibson ES 175, 275's, L5's are Great! But, I think the most bang for the buck for a "Jazz" guitar is the Ibanez LGB30. A whole lot of guitar with an ebony fretboard and a hard shell case for $1100.00. I don't know how anyone can beat that.
Subbed for the name of your channel alone. I’ll learn something here. Smooth chops!!!
Please make an album of that music and let us know when and where to buy it!!
The hollowbody gives a clarity and purity of clean tone that’s different from the softer but “thinner” clean tone of a Les Paul. I have a LP and a laminate Comins archtop. LP by far the easiest to play standing up!!
Interesting question and I think like you said, it basically boils down to tradition (tradition is also seen within Rock, Blues and many other musical avenues). Tradition is a powerful force! However, as part of this "tradition" thing, there is the element of a kind of peer pressure. It is somewhat similar to the pressure regarding brand names. To be honest, there are some modern Epiphone guitars (made in Asia) that are very well made , and some Gibson guitars (made in the USA) that are sloppy and problematic (possibly finished at 4:45pm on a Friday afternoon ;-) ). Yet so many people would rather be seen playing a Gibson than a modern 'made in Asia' Epiphone (I'll dismiss the older pre-Gibson Epiphones ... that is a totally different discussion ). Perhaps part of this is also the price factor (the made in USA Gibson being quite a lot pricier ... so there is that factor to take into account). As another example, I am a fan of what is known as Gypsy Jazz or Gypsy swing. Almost every player you will see in that genre will have a Selmer-Maccaferri style European guitar (either the small oval sound hole or the large sound hole types) that were popularized by Django Reinhardt. It is so entrenched in that tradition of that era (1930's ~ 1940's ) that to show up at a gig/jam with just some archtop (although the Selmer-Maccaferris were "flat" tops but with a floating bridge so not archtops but similar in the bridge character and fairly similar in sound character imho) would likely be seen as an outsider (not always, I've seen some vids with some archtop and even someone using a hollowbody Jazz box)! Similar to the Les Paul question might be why don't more Jazz guitarists play Fender Telecasters (very versitile guitars)? (some have ... like Ed Bickert ua-cam.com/video/FuLPZ6HoP2s/v-deo.html ). It's funny that the whole alleged genre of "Jazz" is really a huge open area that has so many styles within it. I'm not sure the term "Jazz" as a genre is even useful or accurate to describe music but since it contains the possibility for everything from totally free open improv which seems devoid of any pre-determined structure to big band with a whole ensemble of players all following pre-determined written music, you might think there would be less attachment to tradition in some ways (my favourite style of Jazz is basically the small instrumental ensemble of drums, bass, guitar and maybe piano and no vocals ... just some players improvising with an intro/outro theme ~ so when I think of "Jazz" that's what I think of so probably pretty limited lol). I suppose within the "Jazz"realm there are fusion players playing pointy super-strats at high gain but somehow that traditional era of the 40's~50's seems to stick. I kind of think the Wes Montgomery influence is still reverberating through time until now and into the future. This observation begs the question ......... why are there not more Jazz guitarists playing with their thumb ;-)
Because of their warm tones. Warm gentle sounding Guitars 🎸
A very interesting commentary on a topic I've wondered about as well. As an aspiring jazz player ( not nearly as accomplished as you Sir, ) I play on another popular guitar ofter used for jazz (you've likely guessed) an ES335, which I love for this as well as other styles. As you say, tradition is surely a major reason the ES175 is so prevalent in jazz. I'd love to have the opportunity to play one. To my ear they do have that certain traditional jazz tone many search for. Les Paul's really hold little appeal for me, as I only own hollow and semi- hollow body guitars for there tonal qualities
as a guy who only plays les pauls and 335s, i think most serious jazz guys have problems with the low end and low mids of a les paul. they sit in the mix differently than a hollow body. they are punchy and percussive, and they can be very bright but they don't really do the airy tone of a 175. a 335 sits in the middle but sounds more solid than hollow to me, the center block kind of dominates the tone
think some folks find bigger hollow body to be more comfortable, and it can be played unplugged, also the distance from tailpiece to bridge is longer on 175's, so You can go with heavier gauge strings without tension, kinda same as on Jazzmaster...
I played an early 70's black and gold Les Paul Custom throughout the 70s and into the 80s....it was heavy as hell...got my back adjusted evey 6 weeks when I had it...beautiful tone...I think it's perfect for recording jazz but I switched to hollowbody guitars and play an Ibanez custom 125 with flatwounds on it and my main guitar is the Epiphone Casino which is the most comfortable to play of all my guitars...being comfortable with the instrument is important and I love light guitars these days and good tone pots
I can remember Jim Hall in a magazine interview from years ago - probably guitar player mag. He mentioned he tried a Les Paul at one stage and felt it was somehow cold in tone compared to what he was used to with the ES-175. Perhaps he was referring to the deeper tone on the 175 at low volume gigs. The 175 is such a nice guitar design
Fantastic video. I actually enjoy the sound of a Les Paul over the 175 in terms of a warmer tone. Needless to say whatever guitar you have in your hand will be sounding just fine. Cheers.
Beautiful playing. Soothing.
The same reason people dont use danelectro to play hair metal or a Les Paul for Stevie Ray Vaughan songs.
TONE.
It IS the tradition if you mean its the sound of Jazz guitar. Its got wood and air and dynamics.
I also agree that you can get a jazz tone on most guitars.. But does it inspire you? There is some real clean tone magic inside a nice jazzbox.
Your Heritage sounds very nice but your 175 blows it away!
Nice Playing!
I've wondered the same question myself, as my Heritage H150 is as capable of great jazz tones, as you displayed beautifully. I think the almighty Wes Montgomery may be the most singular reason for the ES-175's ubiquitous presence in the genre, in addition to its incredible sound.
That second guitar sounds more clear. I played a Les Paul 86, then switched to the Strat, now I’m playing a Tele.
Of course, one guy famously playing Jazz on a Les Paul was Lester Polfuss, better known by his artist name, Les Paul 😃
LP supreme has a chambered body and has a bloom effect comparable to the 175. A very versatile guitar and great for jazz players.
With that great name it sounds great 👍😀
Great video, Thank You
I would agree with you, tradition is a beautiful thing.
Gorgeous playing! I’m jealous
I have a Joe Pass Epi. I prefer the sense of the vibration of the full body guitar. I had a Les, it didn't give the vibration feed back. Just one opinion. Feed back isn't an issue mostly now, amps are off stage, using in ear monitoring. By the way, fantastic playing!
Nice playing! I own both and love the sound of both however, I think the difference in sound is significant. I have heard a couple videos of Benson playing a LP. The one you mentioned with Jack MacDuff and a couple when he is older in a small club. His playing technique and style are so strong that you forget he's not the big hollow Johnny Smith model he used on Breezin' - especially on the video where he is older. As remarkable as that is, Benson on the Johnny Smith is my favorite sound.
I see contemporary jazz guitarists play pretty much everything these days. Look at Kurt Rosenwinkel, Ulf Wakenius or Julian Lage: there are SG-style guitars, Gretsch-style Guitars, Les Pauls, Teles...175s not so much or not at all.
Definitely agree with the fact that contemporary jazz guitarist are playing solid bodies. Most of them are playing more of a processed sound and are running through delays and othe pedals. Kurt Rosewinkel's sound is a far cry from Benson, Joe Pass etc...having said that just about all the players you mentioned played hollow bodies and 175 styled guitars before moving to a solid body. Julian Lage has a great video where he discusses his migration from being a primarily archtop player to a tele player. Ulf was a shredder at one point and despite playing a les paul styled guitar also plays archtops. Kurt's sound is totally the product of his brilliant technique and his pedals. And as I mentioned, the art of pure archtop players is diminishing so we are in agreement.
@@Minor7thb5 Well...they are just enormous 😄
@@lincolnosiris3665 Personally I just love guitars. Everything about how they look, feel and smell. Archtops always seemed like fine furniture and works of art. I have had a love affair with Benedettos, Gibsons and all these new builders. Similarly, everyone here knows about my sweet spot for telecasters...guitars never get old. Each one has several stories to tell.
@@Minor7thb5 I concur. The instrument needs to tell a story, no matter the brand or the model. One can make pretty much any well made guitar sound great.
Amazing playing! I wish I could play and understand jazz like this! no idea what to practice and learn though (Im self taught)...
Thank you for the video. Interesting video. Greetings from Barcelona.
Didnt know they stopped making them...Now I wish I didnt sell my 1975 ES-175
Enjoyed your post. It occurs to me that Les could have made a better case for claiming to have invented the semi solid guitar such as the ES-335,45,55. A varitone control would have been his cup of tea.
Got a 1978 Les Paul custom love the neck love the sound
The body doesn’t sit well in my lap way too heavy don’t like straps
Neck rides too low due to small body
I was gonna make the comment that I've heard a few jazz guys say you can get a real nice jazz sound out of a Tele. I took a min a scrolled through your videos and sure enough I see you playing a Tele and it sounded real nice. Lol
What are your thoughts on a hollow body Gretsch?? As far as jazz goes?? Also what are your thoughts on a thin line? Like a Casino. Do those make a good jazz box? I am not a jazz guy but I am getting more into it lately.
Les Paul himself was a jazzy player and that was the original intent of that guitar. It was rockers in the 60s that adopted the guitar through loud, over-driven amps. The rest is history. But the original Les Paul guitar was in the hands of a jazz master.
Nice explanation and great playing!
Awesome mi amigo ,lovely man thanks 🙏 for sharing 🎶❤️❤️
I fall in love with lespauls for jazz beacause of Ulf Wakenius
At this point I think it's preference yet, tradition plays a big part in a jazzbo's axe choice. Back in them old days hollow bodys was all there was to have.