Just because you have a lot of processing power doesn't mean you need it. I did live sound for a touring Christian group at a local HoW. The first thing I did when I got there was back off all the EQ and compressors, just using them to combat proximity effect and tame above-average levels,. respectively. The band said that was by far the best monitor mix they ever heard.
When our church upgraded our speakers for FOH we had a professional audio company install and tweak the settings. When they handed it over to us we couldn't run our master over -40 or it would be way too loud. They had the speakers gain cranked waaaayyy too loud. I had to adjust it myself to a normal level. Don't think we will get them to do anymore work.
The reason that you set gain based on the fader being at unity is that your fine control is near unity. It is not because it makes the board look pretty.
@@adamwberanek for one instrument maybe. But when you have many, your mix bus might overload. My way of fixing this is to have a master DCA for the band near -6dB. Very useful for the transitions to speech, and you get to mix your faders near 0dB with proper gain staging and no mixbus overload... (Although they are all floating point nowadays, it's still good to keep all your signals in the green with the orange blinking)
So Guys great and informative video. But one thing to mention (maybe for another video) I think you could check out when it comes to setting the gain of the channels first is to ensure you have horse power from the PA and keep the amps full. Then put your PA on a Matrix Bus and not on a Stereo Bus. This means you are now controlling the Room Volume of the PA with the Matrix Bus. If the PA is now too loud then bring down the Matrix Bus of the PA not the Stereo Bus. Reason being is that now you have a significant amount gain from all channels hitting the Stereo Bus which most likely is controlling your up stream, sources such as to your 2ch Online Mix from a Matrix or a Lobby Mix from a Matrix or what ever your Matrix Bus is being used for. Your milage may vary from console to console depending on what resource's your console has as far as the quantity Matrix's and Groups available. Now you can put your Band in a Band Group, Vocals on a Vocal Group, Pastor on a Pastor Group and send these Groups to the Stereo Bus which is picked up by the Matrix Bus. This seems to have really good control of it all.
Committing to the Waves super wreck seems like an over complication that is unnecessary. The M 32 has a fairly nice assortment of onboard effects per channel, not to mention the auxiliary effects. I think I would have disabled the super rack unless it was for very specific effects and processing.
@stephenbaldassarre2289 0 seconds ago I agree. Most consoles have good enough on-board processing that adding an external unit just adds another point of failure.
Gain structure is extremely important to understand and many people do not get it. You should make a video on this. Simplify it to just show how to set up proper gain structure. The best way I have found is input music on a channel. Coming out of a computer or such. And then adjust everything to work with that. But. It’s also very important to note, that different brands have their own gain structure as well. Yamaha board vs Allen and Heath are very different when it comes to how you set up gain on your channels.
Great Video but could you show everything (especially the sound before any adjustments) before and than analyse it with us? It’s very abstract and not really tangible imho. Thanks!
I know what you mean, but when you're on the job, you're working for the client and not pushing your social media. I also think showing the specifics can cause people to miss the point, that good gain structure and simplicity are often key.
Wish I could have gotten one of you guys to assist me with our worship mix. Problem is, I already know what our biggest problem is, our hall's acoustics is terrible. And in South Africa, acoustic treatment is very expensive 🙆♂️
I feel your pain. I'm also in South Africa. We have church in a school hall with horrible acoustics and because it's not our building there isn't much we can do.
@@elishahocking2885 it's possible, but the import duties would be crazy for the amount of acoustic treatment our hall needs. It would be cheaper to have it built and installed locally, but would still be expensive. Plus, we are renting the building so there's that too.
@@riaanpretorius2858 we have a similar issue, we are renting the building we are in. We were in a school hall as well. But that hall's acoustics was amazing. It had the acoustic ceilings and everything. Actually miss doing sound in that hall 😂
hello i use Ableton for our church streaming to Facebook but when we playing live through Ableton the channel level goes way higher than the level recording gives. when singing live the level is at -12 and when i playback recording the level is around -35 any help is it the settings problem with asiolinkpro?
Our mix is not very good. Too much rhythm guitar, kick drum isn't clear, drum isolation is bad so there's so much bleed, the church is an older building that was build for acoustical amplification, there's too much mud and no clarity. And we don't have anyone who knows how to mix. I'm pretty sure our in-ear routing isn't set up correctly because we can't get any effects on our channels (P16's), and it's hard to be "in the moment" during Worship when, especially as the drummer, everything coming into my ears just sounds horrible. I've been trying to persuade our worship director and pastor to invest in the worship ministry courses, especially the mixing one...but to no avail yet.
Just because you have a lot of processing power doesn't mean you need it. I did live sound for a touring Christian group at a local HoW. The first thing I did when I got there was back off all the EQ and compressors, just using them to combat proximity effect and tame above-average levels,. respectively. The band said that was by far the best monitor mix they ever heard.
It's important to have a mix goal. Do you want to sound more like Rush/Dream Theater or Olivia Rodrigo/Madonna. We definitely lean toward the former!
Definitely Dream Theater lol
@@mdwisdom3 Sayin'! Ima get all Petrucci this weekend!
When our church upgraded our speakers for FOH we had a professional audio company install and tweak the settings. When they handed it over to us we couldn't run our master over -40 or it would be way too loud. They had the speakers gain cranked waaaayyy too loud. I had to adjust it myself to a normal level. Don't think we will get them to do anymore work.
The reason that you set gain based on the fader being at unity is that your fine control is near unity. It is not because it makes the board look pretty.
If you set gain properly and the fader isn’t anywhere unity there’s a gain issue somewhere else in the system.
@@adamwberanek for one instrument maybe. But when you have many, your mix bus might overload. My way of fixing this is to have a master DCA for the band near -6dB. Very useful for the transitions to speech, and you get to mix your faders near 0dB with proper gain staging and no mixbus overload... (Although they are all floating point nowadays, it's still good to keep all your signals in the green with the orange blinking)
So Guys great and informative video. But one thing to mention (maybe for another video) I think you could check out when it comes to setting the gain of the channels first is to ensure you have horse power from the PA and keep the amps full. Then put your PA on a Matrix Bus and not on a Stereo Bus.
This means you are now controlling the Room Volume of the PA with the Matrix Bus. If the PA is now too loud then bring down the Matrix Bus of the PA not the Stereo Bus. Reason being is that now you have a significant amount gain from all channels hitting the Stereo Bus which most likely is controlling your up stream, sources such as to your 2ch Online Mix from a Matrix or a Lobby Mix from a Matrix or what ever your Matrix Bus is being used for. Your milage may vary from console to console depending on what resource's your console has as far as the quantity Matrix's and Groups available. Now you can put your Band in a Band Group, Vocals on a Vocal Group, Pastor on a Pastor Group and send these Groups to the Stereo Bus which is picked up by the Matrix Bus. This seems to have really good control of it all.
That's the way, we have matrix for mains, sides, balcony and subs. LR always at 0
Committing to the Waves super wreck seems like an over complication that is unnecessary. The M 32 has a fairly nice assortment of onboard effects per channel, not to mention the auxiliary effects. I think I would have disabled the super rack unless it was for very specific effects and processing.
@stephenbaldassarre2289
0 seconds ago
I agree. Most consoles have good enough on-board processing that adding an external unit just adds another point of failure.
@@stephenbaldassarre2289I completely agree.
Gain structure is extremely important to understand and many people do not get it. You should make a video on this. Simplify it to just show how to set up proper gain structure. The best way I have found is input music on a channel. Coming out of a computer or such. And then adjust everything to work with that. But. It’s also very important to note, that different brands have their own gain structure as well. Yamaha board vs Allen and Heath are very different when it comes to how you set up gain on your channels.
Can you cover mixing using ableton live
Good morning people have a blessed day!
is it better to run the audio first to Waves Rack then to M32? We do it the other way around. is that bad?
Great Video but could you show everything (especially the sound before any adjustments) before and than analyse it with us? It’s very abstract and not really tangible imho. Thanks!
I know what you mean, but when you're on the job, you're working for the client and not pushing your social media. I also think showing the specifics can cause people to miss the point, that good gain structure and simplicity are often key.
Wish I could have gotten one of you guys to assist me with our worship mix. Problem is, I already know what our biggest problem is, our hall's acoustics is terrible. And in South Africa, acoustic treatment is very expensive 🙆♂️
I feel your pain. I'm also in South Africa. We have church in a school hall with horrible acoustics and because it's not our building there isn't much we can do.
Is it possible to ship from the USA. I know imports are expensive so I have no ideaof cost but a thought
@@elishahocking2885 it's possible, but the import duties would be crazy for the amount of acoustic treatment our hall needs. It would be cheaper to have it built and installed locally, but would still be expensive. Plus, we are renting the building so there's that too.
@@riaanpretorius2858 we have a similar issue, we are renting the building we are in. We were in a school hall as well. But that hall's acoustics was amazing. It had the acoustic ceilings and everything. Actually miss doing sound in that hall 😂
Be creative with building insulation materials.
hello i use Ableton for our church streaming to Facebook but when we playing live through Ableton the channel level goes way higher than the level recording gives.
when singing live the level is at -12 and when i playback recording the level is around -35
any help is it the settings problem with asiolinkpro?
Good insight y’all!
Our mix is not very good. Too much rhythm guitar, kick drum isn't clear, drum isolation is bad so there's so much bleed, the church is an older building that was build for acoustical amplification, there's too much mud and no clarity. And we don't have anyone who knows how to mix. I'm pretty sure our in-ear routing isn't set up correctly because we can't get any effects on our channels (P16's), and it's hard to be "in the moment" during Worship when, especially as the drummer, everything coming into my ears just sounds horrible. I've been trying to persuade our worship director and pastor to invest in the worship ministry courses, especially the mixing one...but to no avail yet.
A very frustrating and common situation indeed. I work for a lot of churches and the #1 issue by a long shot is education.
Hahaha, you invite this guy and you talk for 10 minutes.
This guy is not a guest, he’s part of the Churchfront team.