This actually makes me understand some of my alters. There is one of us who, when shopping, will be incredibly stoic and won't even smile at the cashier. It's always felt very odd to us, because the majority of us are actually incredibly social and tend to make connections with others easily. It's probably an unconscious act to keep people away on his part. Thank you so much for the insight!
Wow, I thought everybody had to teach themselves to smile at people. I don’t think I started doing so until my mid teens, and it was a very intentional and effortful process. People always made me deeply uneasy (and still do if I’m being honest). What an eye opener. I can’t wait to hear more on this topic. Thank you so much for these videos!
Thank you. It explains why i used to think being "invisable" or being able to physically disappear in social settings was my super power. And why i hide from people. Suggestion for topics: DiD/osdd and self harming parts
WOW! I'll ask my wife's alters to smile at me. I realize most of them have never smiled at me even when I'm smiling at them. So small, yet so telling. Thank you for elevating my awareness.
I wouldn't suggest asking them to smile at you. They may find that threatening or take it as you trying to give them a command. Maybe instead let them know that you would welcome a smile if they ever felt so inclined. And/or ask if they mind if you offer THEM a smile. Don't just start smiling at them. Even that could be read as a threat or a trigger. DID/OSDD is EXTREMELY complicated. You have to be very careful not to damage trust and do your best to word/do things in a way that can't possibly be taken as a threat or order. The slightest hint of trying to control them can hurt your relationship. Good luck and thank you for taking the time to educate yourself on your wife's experience.
I only brought this up to my wife. She smiles at me a lot. But I've noticed that 4 of the 8 alters rarely smile if at all. I met her first alter in 2002, an 8 year old. I'm no expert and I won't proclaim to be. Most times during my interactions I question whether I'm helping or making things worse. So I've always been very cautious in that regard. Alters ages are 2, 3, 5, 8 12, 15, 19 and 28. All female, all have the same name as my wife. Different speech patterns, different handwriting, different postures and mannerisms, different wants and desires, even different facial expressions. Even though every one of them can mimic my wife so perfectly that even now many times I have no idea who I'm talking to. A few months ago my wife saw her psyc doctor but remembered none of it. The 15 year old, later in the day, came forward and told me she drove down and back and talked to the doctor. She didn't reveal herself as a 15 year old and I doubt he knew it either. Maybe his concept of dissociation is different than mine. But I have 20+ years day in day out first hand experience. But that doesn't make me wiser, smarter or right. I'm very careful.
@@davidrada241It depends on the severity of the dissociation. I’ve experienced both mild and complete amnesia-filled dissociation with separate parts/alters. Sometimes this depends on my level of awareness of my traumas, other times other people have pointed out my “switching” and “acting like a teenager” and I didn’t even realize it beforehand. It’s a spectrum, so can be to the degree of your lived experiences with your wife, or it can be more mild in expression. For decades, no one would have even known I was dissociating because they would have actually had to know me on a deeper level and I never let anyone close enough to see those differences until I met my husband. He and his family started pointing out the inconsistencies and even amnesia gaps I wasn’t recognizing, and it really F-ed with me mentally and emotionally to realize I have severe dissociative amnesia and parts of self that do things without me realizing it.
I'm at an advanced place in treatment and have read all the dissociation psych literature I can get my hands on, so I feel like my system hasn't been the target audience for your videos for a while. But THIS -- this was so helpful, it actually made me tear up. It's one thing to read about normal childhood development in a book, and quite another to hear someone talk about what their normative experiences allow them to do that my system struggles with, and to hear it all goes back to these very basic things that should have been - and were not - provided in infancy. Thank you for this, and looking forward to part 2.
Saaame here!! My mother's idea of teaching us emotional regulation was telling us to stop doing whatever we were doing (being sad, upset, crying, etc) and just kept repeating "Just Smile". Smiling became an automatic reaction to any intense emotion or reaction.... then used against us as "just stop. Your not sad (or upset, or hurt)... you're smiling." Because of it weve also had both medical doctors and mental health professionals not believe us when we say how aweful we are feeling. We couldnt possibly feel as bad as we say because "you are still smiling all the time, i saw it" or make comments about a cheerful tone which comes along with the smiling as part of an auto-mask to intense or numb emotions, or other peoples intense emotions. It did come in handy working at call centers for billing, tech support, and retention though. That, along with Autistic scripting, usually gave us top scores at work while we were still able to work!
Amazing video! I am autistic and also have quite a bit of depersonalization/derealization symptoms and c-ptsd, and this really resonated with me. A thing I want to add, that smiling is also a cultural thing (in USSR people were not smiling to strangers, the first McDonald's had to teach the workers that...), and also it can be dangerous also to different groups. If you look like a woman and smile it can be seen as an invitation or a flirt while you just want to go home...
Ich habe einen sehr starken sozial agierenden Anteil, der immer aufploppt wenn Menschen in meiner Nähe sind...sie ist extrem positiv,lustig und mitreisend und dementsprechend beliebt..wärend sie agiert denke ich das wäre ,,ich,,..ich fühle mich verbunden und habe eine gute Zeit. Sind die Menschen fort ist auch sie Zeitgleich verschwunden und hinterläßt nur ein Echo was gewesen ist ...und ich bin wieder abgetrennt...kein anderer meiner Anteile will wirklich mit Menschen zu tun haben. Ich frage mich woher sie diese Skills hat,mit ihr habe ich meine Kinder aufgezogen und wir haben viel zusammen gelächelt.... Danke für das erste Video dieser Reihe🙏🏻
Amazingly Helpful ! ! ! Another piece in my jigsaw to help me understand why I have NEVER trusted people, ALWAYS considered myself a lone wolf & so many other issues / traits. Its taken 50+ years to realise these things started so VERY early 😢
I always wondered why I so rarely smile socially. Even with safe people, I don’t smile unless something really good happens. I feel vulnerable when I smile at people, it’s a feeling of insecurity and fear. This has helped me to understand that it might be something related to dissociation and my DID. I’ll bring it up with my psychologist. Thank you for this video!
❤This video explains much to me. At your lectures in Ohio, I asked if having a complete blood transfusion at birth and immediately having pneumonia could cause an opening for DID. (This was before modern medical improvements-I was in an oxygen tent for two weeks.) Collective Dennis (my System) developed on our own as co-conscious because we were quite different from other kids and didn’t fit in. The trauma experienced around age 4 made it easy to segregate us from each other and built a wall of shyness, anxiety, unconnectedness, and unhappiness. Events throughout our lives projected fear of rejection and isolation. Our emotions are guarded by a platoon, making it nearly impossible to smile socially and express joy. Not having a therapist who understands DID the last 30+ years stagnates personal growth. Thank you, Dr. Mike; I value your sharing helpfulness in your videos. Sincerely, Dennis O. Shepherd
This made me weep. No. I’ve no confidence my smile will produce a smile. And that lack of confidence has followed me since childhood. I never rely or trust the response of others.
I always endeavour to smile back at those who extend a smile to me; if I ever pass you, expect for one person in the world to return your smile :3 and here’s an unprompted internet one for you too ☺️
This is so interesting, in therapy I was just talking about how I often avoid looking at people at all when I'm out and about because of this fear that they will start shouting or attack me, and how after two years of trauma therapy mostly grounding skills, I've started practicing "gentle looking at people" and trying to stay safe in my body while I do it. This makes so much sense, as a baby my parents smiled or yelled unpredictably, and I've lived my life feeling like the person at the bar who didn't smile at anyone and felt that the world was a lonely isolated place.
I do that too (avoid looking at people when I'm out). There's such a deeply ingrained fear of negative reactions, both because of my toxic family, and because being autistic and missing social cues often led to negative reactions in others. Even though I've gotten much better at socializing since, that fear still lives in me and is triggered automatically any time I'm around other people. "Gentle looking at people" sounds like a good skill to train. I think I would really struggle with that, though. I can look at people, but I'm dissociated when I do. There are only a few parts of me that interact with others, and the other parts only come forward when I'm alone.
Wow thank you for this video. I have autism that wasn't diagnosed until I was in my 20s, and my mom got diagnosed with it a few years after I did. I've always felt like im invisible or I cant have any impact on the world around me. Just recently in my job I got promoted and its been kinda confounding and bewildering to me to see how I can train people on things and they will take it in and learn it, i.e. that I can have an impact on the people/world around me. This video has been very validating for me. I was working with a therapist for two years, but felt like we weren't making headway and the things I kept trying to bring up weren't getting addressed. so I switched to someone else but in that final session with my old therapist he told me he thought I experienced a healthy level of dissociation, and that really stumped me because that wasn't how I felt, and wasn't the impression I was under from the work we were doing and the things he would say. So it's left me feeling just so unsure of myself and my experiences. But then I watch this video and wow. Just felt like it really hit the mark. Even my new therapist now has noted my dissociation and stuff, but its hard for me to trust other peoples words, unless it's like a negative thing about myself I guess lol. I know in prior jobs, and even my current one, I really struggle with building positive relationships with others, I tend to just end up isolated and I never really understood why, I just blamed it on my autism. But this has been really eye opening. Even my old therapist said how my mom was likely just very unatuned. Thank you for this video and I look forward to the rest of this series.
My experience has been much the same as yours only without any diagnosis of Autism. I saw a therapist for 3 1/2 years. While she was helpful in helping me recognize abuse and trauma had occurred (I literally had no clue because my experience had been downplayed and dismissed by my family), she did not recognize the degree of my dissociation. At the end I had to tell her, “Look, I know you said I don’t have DID but something more is happening here. Maybe not full DID but not normal dissociation, so I don’t know where we go from here.” That’s when she referred me to a practice that specializes in trauma and dissociation. There I was diagnosed with DID. Finally on my journey to healing!! A grown up therapist, as we call them , is not able to address DID because it does not always present as overtly as it is stereotyped.
This was very interesting, thank you. I find I actually smile a lot, but coming from a childhood with severely emotionally unstable parents and taking communication courses, I was “trained” to smile. I learned it was the most wanted emotional reaction. I do at times have to stop myself from smiling/laughing as someone will switch to a serious topic and it takes my brain a moment to catch up that my face doesn’t match the emotion output. I have to physically think about what configuration to put my face in, and I struggle with that because I’ve not been taught those. Smiling is like a shield- no one knows what I’m really thinking or feeling. But I can dissociate while smiling or not. A very few trusted family and friends know my tells or I’ll let them know if I notice.
@@emileehoerl98Omg, SAME. I can look back at childhood pictures and see me smiling while also dissociating… 😢😅 It’s so F-ed up… Trauma is a B-word to heal.
As always a massive thank you Dr Mike. I was a little confused at the beginning as I obviously can’t remember being three months old. I’m sure I was very loved by my family and things developed when I was more like three years. I know there was a lot of trauma in my life that continued as I grew. Know my DID continues to traumatise me, how strange. Reading people’s comments really hits home, I honestly thought I was the only one that uses the invisible state! I’m a very smiley person but it’s rarely real. Looking forward to part two, brilliant subject xx
Thank you just live that you took basic attunement and explained it in real life terms/re dissociation it makes sooo much sense and we can see how this impacts on us daily
This is incredibly helpful and really validates the hard work we have been doing smiling at strangers and trying to come up with reasons, outside of ourselves, why they wouldn't smile back and just be okay if they do.
Yes, you're right. Nothing bad ever happens. I personally prefer doing this while walking, so I get the positive reinforcement with reduced "risk" of a stranger wanting to "chat me up". Outside of simple chatter, e.g., about the weather. It also means it's okay if I don't remember them or their name in case I run into them again in a different state of being. It's been great practice!
Useful video! And now just imagine when the face smiling at the infant is one of an abuser. How confusing that will be, and the damage this causes the person throughout life. Tragic. 🌹
I was helped by the information. I am able to connect with babies, children and the elderly quite easily. I struggle, sometimes. I have a great smile that I often love to share. Your information gave me hope.
Thank you so much for this video! What you described explains so much to me about how I act around strangers. So grateful for a glimpse into the world of not being dissociative.
Thank you thank you thank you!! Understanding what my brain "should" or could have been like is immensely helpful and interesting. I have always struggled to remember to smile when others smile or look at me, and this makes a lot of sense. Looking forward to future videos in this series!!
Holy cow!!! I'm Autistic with OSDD, this makes so much sense! I'm sad, that when I say, "I don't have a default position!" I didn't realise how accurate I have been in that comment.
Seeing the title, I thought wow, that's a smart question. I'm all ears and will sure be listening. Thank you for gifting us with your time and expert information.
Smiling. 9:23 "I can smile at someone, and expect to get a smile back" I don't know if I smile or not. Generally I am not aware of other people's facial expressions at all. Exception. When someone is angry with me, I stare at their face. But normally I make very little eye contact. (I am 90% faceblind) But this isn't what I would call dissociation. 10:00 I can talk to someone. If there is a barrier -- couple of shopping carts even. Who do I avoid? Everyone. In my entire adult life I have ONLY made friends in the work place, or in volunteer acativities over an extended period of time. I have never trusted enough to be in a romantic relationship. In 60 plus years of living with this I have learned a bit. But in relationships I get mousetrapped. Someting out of nowhere where I have miscommunicated stuff on the non verbal level or have missed non-verbal cues. So I keep people far away. Hypervigilance is a habit. 10:27 Sat down in a bar and started a conversation. I'm 72. I've never done that. I have met a guy on a dock. he was a pilot for local float plane company. For the next hour and a half I learned about the lfoat plain business. But it wasn't a laugh. It was an interesting intellectual connection, but NOT an emotional connection. I do not generally believe that the world is a kind and gentle place. I try to behave as if it is, but I am always expecting betrayal and abandonment and rejection. I'm you in that bar sitting watching the tv. Not smiling. 11:32 "When I'm nowhere and not near anyone else" I am safe. I can stop being hypervigilant. I can turn off the Threat Analyst processor. (Is this why learning dual awareness was so easy? I already have the TAP running all the fukcing time?) Confidence comes from being able to do a task myself without assistance. Security comes from having the materials and tools to cover anticipated problems. (Money is a generalized tool here.) I prefer (and have done) bought $500 worth of tools, and wasted a similar value of material to do a job I could hire done for $300. But I can now do that task.
This was indeed very helpful, thank you so much! I'm 48 and I don't have a therapy, been searching for years and trying to work on dissociation on my own. During the last months, one of my alters always reminds me to smile to people, telling me I look very frightening to them. And every time, I do as I'm asked, people not only smile back, but I notice a deep change in their body language, they visibly relax and open up. I really wasn't able to understand this, to me, a smile is nothing but an act, so I also don't trust the smiles of other people. Your explanation of social smiling really helped me to better understand what is happening and why. This is priceless!
I clicked on this as soon as I saw the title haha, my T and I have been speaking about what normal cognition is like a bit lately and it is such good perspective. I’m also Autistic and my mom describes feeling disturbed when I smiled or laughed as an infant because it “didn’t seem quite right”, so I’m sure she didn’t smile back. I’ve never thought about how impactful that kind of thing would be to my system’s view of the world, but it makes a lot of sense. We tend to assume hostility or judgment with others until we pull ourselves out of that automatic response. Looking forward to the rest of this series, thanks as always for the great resources you’re putting out here
Love love love this approach because I’ve wondered about it so many times. This type of video may also be helpful for non dissociative people to try to understand our world because you give the comparisons. You are able to do this having worked with so many of us. This could be a series that you come back to with almost never ending chapters. Thank you so much Dr Mike ❤
Wow! I appreciate all of your videos but what part really stood out to me was when you said how much effort each day is when you’re dissociative. I am 48 and was diagnosed DID this summer, after years of just trying to explain my anxiety is really really bad, I feel weird, I lose time etc. I was pleased (sadly) with the CPTSD diagnosis but the DID REALLY explains A LOT! I’m scared to be in a car accident or pulled over and then (like I do when frightened just slightly) switch to a little who - doesn’t know how to drive, and I get upset and scared and not know “how to make my car go”.
I have DID, am currently in the trauma processing portion of my treatment with a specialist and this was EXTREMELY helpful. Please continue with this series! This made so much sense to me and put so many pieces together!
Thank you for your channel Dr. Mike. It is my first time to have a DID client. It is quite rare in our country. Your videos have helped me in my intervention with my client. I have established good rapport with him now and I am hopeful of his further progress.
Thank you so much for this. Many years ago, we used to ask everyone, "What is normal?" We were obsessed with it. This was pre-system awareness, and then when we were also in the beginning stages of awareness. Our need to know how other people function in the world has long been a curiosity for us, but it also helps with the dreaded denial, that kept us unwell for many years. We were a sick baby and kept in an orphanage for the first 6 months of our lives, we deeply felt this when our darling daughter was born. We saw the amazing effects of mirroring of smiling with her. Watching her normal developmental stages was incredible, we could sense that we were so very different. Due to our close bond, she knew we were different from a very early age. Just the other day a chap smiled and said hello at the bus stop, we freaked out and had those nanoseconds of trying to figure out how the hell to respond. Have often wondered if that was normal. So thank you as always!
I love starting this series thinking about associating with others. I know as Americans we get a lot of flack for starting interactions with "how are you" with the assumption that "fine" is the only answer being that the asker doesn't actually care. But I see it just like the smiling, as a bid for knowing how to best approach an interaction. If someone tells me they aren't having a great day, are very tired, loving the weather, excited for the holidays, etc. it gives me a starting place to know how to treat that person in the course of the interaction. I actually really love that this is part of our culture. I'm glad you got to experience some of the Midwestern friendliness! I grew up there and while there is definitely a darker side to the region, I do miss the ability to immediately befriend strangers with a smile
This was really interesting! I hadn't thought about the relationship between trauma and knowing you can impact the world around you before. Now that I think about it, that's something that I really struggle with. I constantly feel like nothing I do will really matter, and I live in my head a lot instead of in the real world. I get frustrated with myself because I try to get myself to stop retreating inward and engage with the world but even when I'm actively trying it feels impossible sometimes. I had never really thought about it as being related to early trauma though.
This was mind blowing. I wasn't sure it would apply to me as I don't have DID (I have complex trauma/depersonalisation) but this video really made my day to day experience make sense. The worst part about my illness for me is the isolation but it helps to know the reasons behind it. Despite there being a lot of difficulties in my childhood, I think it's likely that I was smiled at as a baby, so I am a little confused why this still resonates so much but it really describes how I interact with the world. Thanks for the helpful video :)
This is incredibly helpful information! I've always wondered what kinds of things specifically make my living experiences different from someone who is not dissociative. I'm aware that my experiences are different (having DID) but I also know that because this is the only lens I have on life, these differences are essentially invisible to me and I wouldn't be able to identify them otherwise. Social smiling as a concept appears so simple but the ramifications of it not having gone "correctly" (can't find better word atm) are actually massive and complicated. Anyway your work is hugely helpful, thank you so much! Really excited about this series.
This is your most helpful video yet for us. Thank you !Looking forward to the rest of the series. This information will help us articulate things to singletons in a way that we've just never been able to because we just didn't know what we were missing in the first place and certainly didn't have language to explain our experience in relation to what theirs might have been compared to ours.
this video was so much more insightful than i expected. being an autistic introvert who faced neglect as a kid, i got used to being sidelined and it was easy to ignore my own life through dissociation when so many other people ignored me. i'm 22 now with less dissociative barriers than ever before and i've gotten teary eyed having coworkers that acknowledge me by name and recognize me in public, and i wonder if finding the ability to acknowledge my own life made me more able to let others in in a way that matters to them and their ability to perceive me
This video was very insightful, and I really appreciate you making it. It was also quite difficult to watch, as it brought up a lot of pain from early childhood. I'm autistic, my mom was autistic, and my dad was emotionally unavailable and neglectful. As a very young child, life was horrible and terrifying. Literally no one attuned to me. Both of my parents were abusive and neglectful. My siblings were emotionally abusive as well, often taking advantage of my autistic vulnerabilities in order to hurt me for their own amusement. I also was abused from some people outside of my family, such as one of my mom's ex-boyfriends, my brother's best friend, and my best friend. I basically encountered trauma from all directions so early on, that by the time I started school, I was already heavily traumatized and terrified of people. I don't think I ever got people smiling at me, or a sense that I could influence others (except perhaps by annoying them). I never had the sense that I had the power to get other people to connect with me (and I still don't). All of my efforts in childhood failed because of my toxic family environment (and probably also my autism). I felt like my entire existence was a burden, I was worthless, my needs were selfishness, I didn't belong anywhere, I wasn't wanted, and I was owed nothing. I have felt detached from the rest of the world/society ever since. It's like there's a barrier between myself and other people. Occasionally I can connect with people on an individual level, though usually only other neurodivergent and/or traumatized folk. I don't seem to know how to connect with neurotypicals. I also think that the way in which I naturally connect is different, and it makes it difficult to be on the same wavelength as others. I naturally gravitate towards other autistics. I don't generally smile at strangers. Or, at least, I don't initiate smiling. If someone smiles at me I will usually force a smile in return, because I know it is socially expected, and I don't want to seem hostile. I don't think I project openness, though. I don't generally want to invite people to approach me. I don't know how to interact socially, and it's stressful and anxiety-inducing. When I get it wrong, people look at me like I'm confusing or an alien, or sometimes like I'm hostile to them (even though I feel no hostility). I've learned to mask my autism, but mostly by withdrawing and playing it safe. I keep my cards close to the vest and don't volunteer anything spontaneously. I do my best to respond to the situation as is expected, and then escape the encounter as soon as possible, before anyone can notice that something is off about me. I don't like being socially isolated. I don't like having no friends and no support system. But I honestly don't know what to do about it. Trying to just "go out and meet people" is beyond exhausting, and usually doesn't yield any success. Even when people are chatty and friendly with me, it never goes anywhere. With great effort I can manage small talk, but I have no idea how to progress a relationship beyond a surface level.
Thank you. Valuable words. Healthy association and healthy attachment. And reality. This video is very welcome and I'll be looking forward to the next one.
Exhausting considering what I heard listening to the video and the associations with remembered experience. Having a DBT practice of nonjudgmentally observing and holding willingness for change simultaneously with acceptance of what is not implying agreement, I'm experiencing happiness acknowledging a new relationship with the perception of fatigue. Thank you. Definately looking forward to updating with my clinician. Thank you.
More very helpful bits of puzzle solving Dr. Mike! At 66 years of age following a D.I.D. diagnosis it occurred to us my step-mother never once smiled or laughed...
This is incredible!!! Thank you for doing this video series. I have a wonderful therapist but he has not had much experience describing his own internal world. It's something that I love to kid him about since I do nothing but describe mine! 😂 But to listen to you, explain it, and that you know how to break it down, really helps -- especially because I am at a midway point in integration and my internal experience is really changing. So I tend to ask questions that have to do with somebody who is non-traumatized internal experience because I'm trying to figure out if my experience is starting to match.
Once again I am impressed with how your content speaks to the heart of a question. We submitted pretty specific questions but this video addresses something underlying it all that I would never think to ask. (I had no idea smiling functioned in this way. And it gives me a lot to think on.) Very grateful for your professional insight and looking forward to the series. Thank you.
I like the word "associative" to describe a non-dissociative person. Some of what you said, I actually tried to relate to it through one of my more extraverted, social alters. I always wondered why, when he was out, people seemed a lot more drawn to us. We seemed to get into more romantic situations and he wasn't trying, it was just his way of engaging with people. He SOUNDS like a more "associative" person. Another of our social alters would often get into high-intensity social situations or would have people flirt with her, but it was more distressing. But she couldn't help getting into those situations, again it was just her extremely friendly way of engaging with people. Interestingly enough, these two highly social alters don't tend to smile that much, even though they are very animated and charismatic. But it's clear they are on the extreme end of being ANPs, so I would be interested to know, how does an ANP differ from a non-dissociative person, exactly? 🤔
Damn. Got us thinking about who smiles and who doesn't. Normal everyday, I don't smile much if at all and unless certain others are close to the front its physically exhausting to smile for more than a few seconds. Things like going to a party or out to a pub leave us feeling absolutely hung out to dry. That cascade effect you've described is an absolute avalanche in our experience
This explains a lot. I'm not autistic, but my parents likely are, plus some possible additional disorders. I think I never felt like I had any influence on them at all. I was only ever a set piece for their life, and a defective one at that.
WOW. This WAS very helpful, super insightful! Suddenly so many things about my life and the way I relate to the world/other people make so much more sense. Thank you so much for this video, really looking forward to the next one!
Thank you for starting the series. Wild Smith started as a response to systems reaching into ask what it's like to not be dissociative I Can see how it will have the inverse effect on those who are not dissociative. In other words it gives non-systems lens in which they are encouraged to reflect on what they take as an inherent advantage/privilege of not being dissociative. How much effort systems have to put into coordinate mask and resolve any struggles that they have just to interact with people and the world. Thank you again!
Holy cow, I think this one hit harder than any previous. I walk the earth with something I figure looks like a scowl. I hadn't considered how that was helping me keep others at a distance. I hadn't realized how much safer the world feels when people see me as threatening. Ill be looking forward to more videos in this series.
I think I’ve seen a study about how therapist conceptualize dissociation. I only read the summary, but the authors said something in line with that it’s important to discuss how you view/conceptualize dissociation. Avoiding doing so could cause an issue in the therapeutic alliance due to misinterpretation of what the therapist.. think or something. I’ve thought about it a lot and I agree. I’ve experienced it and the issue wasn’t that I wasn’t being heard or something, but our conceptualization did not match.
Can you do a video on eye contact? Im currently still dealing with minimal to 0 eye contact, even when present. It seems to be a shame thing where if i dont look at my therapist, I feel I can try to focus harder on not talking about my severe trauma, which I know isnt healthy, but sort of an automatic response to avoid. Especally when digging deep. What is odd is smaller age regressed alternative states dont seem to struggle as much with this issue, except one who seems to keep there eyes shut. My therapist is still struggling with that age regressed state to move or to open there eyes. I would love more detail on how you approch those issues.😊
All I can say is that this is HUGE! Thank you for explaining this. I look forward to Object Permanence. That has been an issue for me, and now I know it comes from my DID, and that is encouraging.
I was going to mention autism. Glad you did. It doesn't have to be a 'deep' level of autism either. I don't know if this is was part of my development Pretty sure I wouldn't have got a response even had I done the 'normal' infant smile initiation. One of the biggest factors in understanding that I'm AuDHD with a abusive childhood was hearing snippets of what 'normal' thinking, social interaction and childhood was like. It took by far the longest to understand what dissociation was (from descriptions of dissociation) because what was being described was my normal and I couldn't figure out what was 'wrong' about that as there was no description of what the alternative was. This is a very important topic. Looking forward to part 2 (&3?).
Thank you, really helpful explanation if a little harrowing, it fits with my internal attitude of feeling that I can't really influence anything, looking forward to the next part
I love this approach to answering this particular question! I found it very enlightening and helpful. I need to give it some more thought, but it makes quite a bit of sense to me. Smiles don't really feel safe, and that is genuinely kind of sad
Very very helpful! I have DID and for me is not quite easy to see the differences between people without dissociation. Happy greetings from Costa Rica. Your videos are always useful! ❤
This video was so helpful and instructive! I know that I've always struggled with perceiving and reciprocating social cues like facial expressions...this really makes sense of why, especially given my primary caregiver. I can't wait for the rest of this series!
We have an autistic brain, which might have disrupted the social smiling development... Great insight as to why many of us still struggle to feel that we can affect other people, the outside world and our own life. We generally feel like ghost entities trapped in a body to which we don't really relate and a life that feels fake and disconnected from who we are. When our presence in the outside world is acknowledged by people initiating contact (for example by greeting or asking something) we often internally startle at it, because we unconsciously assume we're kind of invisible to others. It's hard to remember that the body is perceivable and perceived (and that creates expectations of social engagement and about our identity) even if we feel invisible. Thanks a lot, looking forward for the next part!!
That makes a lot of sense. I have recently experienced rythme. I have been playing music and had music lessons with a lot of focus on rhythm but never really felt it. When I sometimes feel it rhythm I also feel in tune/connected to others following the same rhythm. So that must be an experience of being inside my body.
Super helpful video 🙏 I realise I kinda go through the world as if I'm invisible. Both my parents were emotionally neglectful and I've heard I was not taken good care of as a baby from what older family members have said. I have a hard time with eye contact, which might both be because I'm possibly autistic too, but also it is just scary being seen! I was taught that if I was seen it would make me a target for abuse from both my family and peers at school. I have developed mild short sightedness in my late 20s and I honestly avoid using glasses to create more of a barrier between me and the world (especially people). Also it helps me if I don't recognise someone due to amnesia I can just blame it on my bad eyesight 😅
Also I'm very quick at smiling at people automatically because I've learned to people please since me being nice ment less chance of abuse. I just smile all the time and sometimes my over-friendly demeanor has been misunderstood as flirting, which is also dangerous because then sexual protectors step in and are in fight/flight not knowing they can say no 😅
Not sure if this a question fitting for this series per se, but I wonder if you could talk about the, especially OSDD, experience of questioning your system, and what it is like to not be sure whether or not this is going on for you. It's such an odd in between stage of questioning if everything you do is too forced or fake, while also trying to be accepting of yourself. I just wonder what someone without OSDD may experience differently in such a situation.
If this was an ongoing series I would reference each video multiple times. I think it would be very helpful. I could start with an initial watch then later on in treatment where it feels appropriate refrence it again in a different state of mind.
Walking around smiling at people means more men will approach me with sexual interest. And they won't be classy And I would not feel safe. People are not kind when they want sex. Great video though, really made sense to me! Looking forward to part two. If you want, can you mention what it's like when something really moves you emotionally? Or like.. to process an experience with all parts of you? Does it flow through? Does it change you? I always feel disjointed and like things get stuck Maybe you have something to say on that, idk
@@grimming4886 definitely don’t go around smiling at everyone! It’s more of an innate skill that is learned to work out social engagement when needed. Thanks also for the suggestion!
A smile is a positive and a negative thing for sure. Smiling attracts all kinds of people and in our case, the not so nice are like magnetized to come to us if we just casually smile and not even at them. So I guess, better just look more grumpy all the time >.>
As an Autistic, learning disabled child, that was where the physical abuse began, because my mother believed I should have my lack of smiles and what she called,”bad moods”( not having expressions and being overwhelmed and terrified most of the time) beaten out of me, which is where a dissociative persona came into being, and would obey the direction to smile after my beatings and show gratefulness, happiness and whatever they wanted me to express or act like, so further abuse wouldn’t occur in that moment. That part became my Autistic mask for every social situation…in order to be safe. Being whatever others needed, wanted and enjoyed. As an older poor, Autistic, disabled and chronically ill nonbinary human, not many humans smile back anyway, which makes me feel very unreal and invisible.
It odd how trauma can dictate the way you interact with others, especially when you was young. I have no memory of this, but I was told that when I was a kid, I use to walk up to strangers and full blown made friends with them; most tended to be adults. I had friends my age, but for some reason, I was always trynna be friends with the adults. Then I sorta figured out, that it could've been us trynna escape, we wanted to be kidnapped or taken away, cause we knew we was going back to bad things. I think I was tynna seek out a parent figure to save the kid,who never got to be child, forced to grow up to survive a environment of oppression and extreme trauma. Just writing this has me disassociating, but it important to share this experience, as it could help someone else going through trauma, to recognize and hopefully to help them to seek help.
Wow interesting. I’ve always known to smile, and been hyper aware of how whatever I express can impact the situation. For me I do it even when I DON’T want to. It feels like I have to. That if I don’t and the other person (walking down the street, at the shops, or in a friend group) isn’t ok - that my tension will be worse. It feels like I am in charge of interactions. That somehow I can see what others don’t, and can jump in and steer conversation or notice when someone is feeling left out. It’s pressure. All on me. It’s exhausting. I hate it. I wish I could choose not to.
Thanks a lot for that interesting video. It helps a lot! Now I wonder, is the “parathyme smile/laugh” the same phenomenon, or does it come from the same place? Or is that something completely different? Thank you for your work!
I suspect a racist person would see the colour (for example) and adopt their entrenched belief system, so a smile could be seen as a threat or laughter at them (triggering the inevitable insecurity). Being subjected to racism could mean that a smile is perceived as threat as well. The smile should enable safety, but experience may counter this.
I have discovered that experiencing any form of oppression, poverty, and/or minority status( for me, it is multiply disabled and poor) where we are already not seen by most as being fully human, not receiving a smile back when we seek to connect through social smiling can feel devastating-as though we are invisible and not even worthy of acknowledgement…as though we subhuman, as though we are not alive. This is my experience anywhere in my community, and I would never wish it on anyone. 😔
I have so much trauma and am dealing with so much. I'm queer, trans, cant get access to good healthcare, have ODDD, CPTSD, Autism, and ADHD. I feel like I handle it really well but i have to adopt a very punk underground anarchist lifestyle otherwise im just completely disenpowered and have nowhere to go.
I do not have many pictures from my childhood...in the pictures I do have, there are exactly zero pictures of me smiling..I am just blankly staring into the camera. To this day, I rarely smile...mostly, as an adult, I smile to put others at ease..smiling is an "act" and those of us with DID know exactly how to "act" so as not to be ridiculed or abused even more...we are professionals at deflecting...
Very eye opening. Just kinda wild how that is an automatic thing for 'associative' people and that probably explains some stuff about our sociability cause we don't really do that (and when we do it feels kinda forced)
I HAVE A QUESTION! This video only reinforces my theory that the "neurodivergent brain" (whether ADHD, ASD, or DID) are all simply different variations of a traumatized brain that solidified this networking early due to the presence of trauma. Having said that, I use a bunch of tips and tricks an ADHD person would find helpful to stay on time and know where I put things. But I don't have ADHD, I have DID. At least, I think I do. 😅 Does this mean there's a dissociative component to ADHD (and autism, respectively)? Or am I lying to myself about having DID and are all the skeptics right about it not existing and I just have ADHD? 😉 I'm asking a lot with these questions, I know.
It is a good question. We often see overlap in symptomology between all three conditions, but the cause of the symptoms can be quite different. That’s why in-depth assessment is so vital.
This actually makes me understand some of my alters. There is one of us who, when shopping, will be incredibly stoic and won't even smile at the cashier. It's always felt very odd to us, because the majority of us are actually incredibly social and tend to make connections with others easily. It's probably an unconscious act to keep people away on his part.
Thank you so much for the insight!
Wow, I thought everybody had to teach themselves to smile at people. I don’t think I started doing so until my mid teens, and it was a very intentional and effortful process. People always made me deeply uneasy (and still do if I’m being honest).
What an eye opener. I can’t wait to hear more on this topic. Thank you so much for these videos!
Thank you. It explains why i used to think being "invisable" or being able to physically disappear in social settings was my super power. And why i hide from people.
Suggestion for topics:
DiD/osdd and self harming parts
This... I also have that "super power"... being invisible.
WOW! I'll ask my wife's alters to smile at me. I realize most of them have never smiled at me even when I'm smiling at them. So small, yet so telling. Thank you for elevating my awareness.
You are very welcome!
I wouldn't suggest asking them to smile at you. They may find that threatening or take it as you trying to give them a command. Maybe instead let them know that you would welcome a smile if they ever felt so inclined. And/or ask if they mind if you offer THEM a smile. Don't just start smiling at them. Even that could be read as a threat or a trigger. DID/OSDD is EXTREMELY complicated. You have to be very careful not to damage trust and do your best to word/do things in a way that can't possibly be taken as a threat or order. The slightest hint of trying to control them can hurt your relationship. Good luck and thank you for taking the time to educate yourself on your wife's experience.
I only brought this up to my wife. She smiles at me a lot. But I've noticed that 4 of the 8 alters rarely smile if at all. I met her first alter in 2002, an 8 year old. I'm no expert and I won't proclaim to be. Most times during my interactions I question whether I'm helping or making things worse. So I've always been very cautious in that regard. Alters ages are 2, 3, 5, 8 12, 15, 19 and 28. All female, all have the same name as my wife. Different speech patterns, different handwriting, different postures and mannerisms, different wants and desires, even different facial expressions. Even though every one of them can mimic my wife so perfectly that even now many times I have no idea who I'm talking to. A few months ago my wife saw her psyc doctor but remembered none of it. The 15 year old, later in the day, came forward and told me she drove down and back and talked to the doctor. She didn't reveal herself as a 15 year old and I doubt he knew it either. Maybe his concept of dissociation is different than mine. But I have 20+ years day in day out first hand experience. But that doesn't make me wiser, smarter or right. I'm very careful.
@@davidrada241It depends on the severity of the dissociation. I’ve experienced both mild and complete amnesia-filled dissociation with separate parts/alters. Sometimes this depends on my level of awareness of my traumas, other times other people have pointed out my “switching” and “acting like a teenager” and I didn’t even realize it beforehand.
It’s a spectrum, so can be to the degree of your lived experiences with your wife, or it can be more mild in expression. For decades, no one would have even known I was dissociating because they would have actually had to know me on a deeper level and I never let anyone close enough to see those differences until I met my husband.
He and his family started pointing out the inconsistencies and even amnesia gaps I wasn’t recognizing, and it really F-ed with me mentally and emotionally to realize I have severe dissociative amnesia and parts of self that do things without me realizing it.
I'm at an advanced place in treatment and have read all the dissociation psych literature I can get my hands on, so I feel like my system hasn't been the target audience for your videos for a while.
But THIS -- this was so helpful, it actually made me tear up. It's one thing to read about normal childhood development in a book, and quite another to hear someone talk about what their normative experiences allow them to do that my system struggles with, and to hear it all goes back to these very basic things that should have been - and were not - provided in infancy.
Thank you for this, and looking forward to part 2.
Saaame here!! My mother's idea of teaching us emotional regulation was telling us to stop doing whatever we were doing (being sad, upset, crying, etc) and just kept repeating "Just Smile". Smiling became an automatic reaction to any intense emotion or reaction.... then used against us as "just stop. Your not sad (or upset, or hurt)... you're smiling."
Because of it weve also had both medical doctors and mental health professionals not believe us when we say how aweful we are feeling. We couldnt possibly feel as bad as we say because "you are still smiling all the time, i saw it" or make comments about a cheerful tone which comes along with the smiling as part of an auto-mask to intense or numb emotions, or other peoples intense emotions.
It did come in handy working at call centers for billing, tech support, and retention though. That, along with Autistic scripting, usually gave us top scores at work while we were still able to work!
Amazing video! I am autistic and also have quite a bit of depersonalization/derealization symptoms and c-ptsd, and this really resonated with me.
A thing I want to add, that smiling is also a cultural thing (in USSR people were not smiling to strangers, the first McDonald's had to teach the workers that...), and also it can be dangerous also to different groups. If you look like a woman and smile it can be seen as an invitation or a flirt while you just want to go home...
Ich habe einen sehr starken sozial agierenden Anteil, der immer aufploppt wenn Menschen in meiner Nähe sind...sie ist extrem positiv,lustig und mitreisend und dementsprechend beliebt..wärend sie agiert denke ich das wäre ,,ich,,..ich fühle mich verbunden und habe eine gute Zeit.
Sind die Menschen fort ist auch sie Zeitgleich verschwunden und hinterläßt nur ein Echo was gewesen ist ...und ich bin wieder abgetrennt...kein anderer meiner Anteile will wirklich mit Menschen zu tun haben.
Ich frage mich woher sie diese Skills hat,mit ihr habe ich meine Kinder aufgezogen und wir haben viel zusammen gelächelt....
Danke für das erste Video dieser Reihe🙏🏻
Amazingly Helpful ! ! !
Another piece in my jigsaw to help me understand why I have NEVER trusted people, ALWAYS considered myself a lone wolf & so many other issues / traits.
Its taken 50+ years to realise these things started so VERY early 😢
I always wondered why I so rarely smile socially. Even with safe people, I don’t smile unless something really good happens. I feel vulnerable when I smile at people, it’s a feeling of insecurity and fear. This has helped me to understand that it might be something related to dissociation and my DID. I’ll bring it up with my psychologist. Thank you for this video!
I really hope it helps, maybe it can offer some way of making life easier!
❤This video explains much to me. At your lectures in Ohio, I asked if having a complete blood transfusion at birth and immediately having pneumonia could cause an opening for DID. (This was before modern medical improvements-I was in an oxygen tent for two weeks.)
Collective Dennis (my System) developed on our own as co-conscious because we were quite different from other kids and didn’t fit in.
The trauma experienced around age 4 made it easy to segregate us from each other and built a wall of shyness, anxiety, unconnectedness, and unhappiness.
Events throughout our lives projected fear of rejection and isolation. Our emotions are guarded by a platoon, making it nearly impossible to smile socially and express joy.
Not having a therapist who understands DID the last 30+ years stagnates personal growth.
Thank you, Dr. Mike; I value your sharing helpfulness in your videos.
Sincerely, Dennis O. Shepherd
What a terrific video. This made realize I in fact associate smiling with fear, or at least parts of me do. A lot to think about there
This made me weep. No. I’ve no confidence my smile will produce a smile. And that lack of confidence has followed me since childhood. I never rely or trust the response of others.
Thank you so much for this heart felt response to the video. I hope it can help you find your true smile with others, safely.
I always endeavour to smile back at those who extend a smile to me; if I ever pass you, expect for one person in the world to return your smile :3 and here’s an unprompted internet one for you too ☺️
This is so interesting, in therapy I was just talking about how I often avoid looking at people at all when I'm out and about because of this fear that they will start shouting or attack me, and how after two years of trauma therapy mostly grounding skills, I've started practicing "gentle looking at people" and trying to stay safe in my body while I do it.
This makes so much sense, as a baby my parents smiled or yelled unpredictably, and I've lived my life feeling like the person at the bar who didn't smile at anyone and felt that the world was a lonely isolated place.
I do that too (avoid looking at people when I'm out). There's such a deeply ingrained fear of negative reactions, both because of my toxic family, and because being autistic and missing social cues often led to negative reactions in others. Even though I've gotten much better at socializing since, that fear still lives in me and is triggered automatically any time I'm around other people. "Gentle looking at people" sounds like a good skill to train. I think I would really struggle with that, though. I can look at people, but I'm dissociated when I do. There are only a few parts of me that interact with others, and the other parts only come forward when I'm alone.
Wow thank you for this video. I have autism that wasn't diagnosed until I was in my 20s, and my mom got diagnosed with it a few years after I did. I've always felt like im invisible or I cant have any impact on the world around me. Just recently in my job I got promoted and its been kinda confounding and bewildering to me to see how I can train people on things and they will take it in and learn it, i.e. that I can have an impact on the people/world around me. This video has been very validating for me. I was working with a therapist for two years, but felt like we weren't making headway and the things I kept trying to bring up weren't getting addressed. so I switched to someone else but in that final session with my old therapist he told me he thought I experienced a healthy level of dissociation, and that really stumped me because that wasn't how I felt, and wasn't the impression I was under from the work we were doing and the things he would say. So it's left me feeling just so unsure of myself and my experiences. But then I watch this video and wow. Just felt like it really hit the mark. Even my new therapist now has noted my dissociation and stuff, but its hard for me to trust other peoples words, unless it's like a negative thing about myself I guess lol. I know in prior jobs, and even my current one, I really struggle with building positive relationships with others, I tend to just end up isolated and I never really understood why, I just blamed it on my autism. But this has been really eye opening. Even my old therapist said how my mom was likely just very unatuned. Thank you for this video and I look forward to the rest of this series.
My experience has been much the same as yours only without any diagnosis of Autism. I saw a therapist for 3 1/2 years. While she was helpful in helping me recognize abuse and trauma had occurred (I literally had no clue because my experience had been downplayed and dismissed by my family), she did not recognize the degree of my dissociation. At the end I had to tell her, “Look, I know you said I don’t have DID but something more is happening here. Maybe not full DID but not normal dissociation, so I don’t know where we go from here.” That’s when she referred me to a practice that specializes in trauma and dissociation. There I was diagnosed with DID. Finally on my journey to healing!! A grown up therapist, as we call them , is not able to address DID because it does not always present as overtly as it is stereotyped.
This will be a great series! Thank you for tackling this - it's very interesting. 💜
Glad you think so!
never clicked so fast 🫠 WHAT IS IT LIKEEEE
Yes!!
Weird when you finally realize you never knew what it's like to not be at least partially dissociated isn't it?
This was very interesting, thank you.
I find I actually smile a lot, but coming from a childhood with severely emotionally unstable parents and taking communication courses, I was “trained” to smile. I learned it was the most wanted emotional reaction.
I do at times have to stop myself from smiling/laughing as someone will switch to a serious topic and it takes my brain a moment to catch up that my face doesn’t match the emotion output. I have to physically think about what configuration to put my face in, and I struggle with that because I’ve not been taught those.
Smiling is like a shield- no one knows what I’m really thinking or feeling. But I can dissociate while smiling or not. A very few trusted family and friends know my tells or I’ll let them know if I notice.
That sounds so time and energy intensive, and your explanation is extremely helpful. Thank you!
My system is the same. The smile is learned and a shield. I can tell in pictures if it’s a genuine smile or the shield smile
Saaame
@@emileehoerl98Omg, SAME. I can look back at childhood pictures and see me smiling while also dissociating… 😢😅 It’s so F-ed up… Trauma is a B-word to heal.
As always a massive thank you Dr Mike. I was a little confused at the beginning as I obviously can’t remember being three months old. I’m sure I was very loved by my family and things developed when I was more like three years. I know there was a lot of trauma in my life that continued as I grew. Know my DID continues to traumatise me, how strange. Reading people’s comments really hits home, I honestly thought I was the only one that uses the invisible state!
I’m a very smiley person but it’s rarely real. Looking forward to part two, brilliant subject xx
Thank you just live that you took basic attunement and explained it in real life terms/re dissociation it makes sooo much sense and we can see how this impacts on us daily
This is incredibly helpful and really validates the hard work we have been doing smiling at strangers and trying to come up with reasons, outside of ourselves, why they wouldn't smile back and just be okay if they do.
And that is really what happens, some folks don’t smile back. It can feel odd, but it usually ok, just them being them (for whatever reasons)
Yes, you're right. Nothing bad ever happens. I personally prefer doing this while walking, so I get the positive reinforcement with reduced "risk" of a stranger wanting to "chat me up". Outside of simple chatter, e.g., about the weather.
It also means it's okay if I don't remember them or their name in case I run into them again in a different state of being. It's been great practice!
I guess this explains why we always feel we’ve done something wrong if we don’t get a smile back. ??
I guess this explains why we always feel we’ve done something wrong if we don’t get a smile back. ??
Useful video! And now just imagine when the face smiling at the infant is one of an abuser. How confusing that will be, and the damage this causes the person throughout life. Tragic. 🌹
I was helped by the information. I am able to connect with babies, children and the elderly quite easily. I struggle, sometimes. I have a great smile that I often love to share. Your information gave me hope.
Thank you so much for this video! What you described explains so much to me about how I act around strangers. So grateful for a glimpse into the world of not being dissociative.
Thank you thank you thank you!! Understanding what my brain "should" or could have been like is immensely helpful and interesting. I have always struggled to remember to smile when others smile or look at me, and this makes a lot of sense. Looking forward to future videos in this series!!
Holy cow!!! I'm Autistic with OSDD, this makes so much sense! I'm sad, that when I say, "I don't have a default position!" I didn't realise how accurate I have been in that comment.
Seeing the title, I thought wow, that's a smart question. I'm all ears and will sure be listening. Thank you for gifting us with your time and expert information.
Smiling. 9:23 "I can smile at someone, and expect to get a smile back" I don't know if I smile or not. Generally I am not aware of other people's facial expressions at all. Exception. When someone is angry with me, I stare at their face. But normally I make very little eye contact. (I am 90% faceblind) But this isn't what I would call dissociation.
10:00 I can talk to someone. If there is a barrier -- couple of shopping carts even. Who do I avoid? Everyone. In my entire adult life I have ONLY made friends in the work place, or in volunteer acativities over an extended period of time. I have never trusted enough to be in a romantic relationship. In 60 plus years of living with this I have learned a bit. But in relationships I get mousetrapped. Someting out of nowhere where I have miscommunicated stuff on the non verbal level or have missed non-verbal cues. So I keep people far away. Hypervigilance is a habit.
10:27 Sat down in a bar and started a conversation. I'm 72. I've never done that. I have met a guy on a dock. he was a pilot for local float plane company. For the next hour and a half I learned about the lfoat plain business. But it wasn't a laugh. It was an interesting intellectual connection, but NOT an emotional connection.
I do not generally believe that the world is a kind and gentle place. I try to behave as if it is, but I am always expecting betrayal and abandonment and rejection. I'm you in that bar sitting watching the tv. Not smiling.
11:32 "When I'm nowhere and not near anyone else" I am safe. I can stop being hypervigilant. I can turn off the Threat Analyst processor. (Is this why learning dual awareness was so easy? I already have the TAP running all the fukcing time?)
Confidence comes from being able to do a task myself without assistance. Security comes from having the materials and tools to cover anticipated problems. (Money is a generalized tool here.) I prefer (and have done) bought $500 worth of tools, and wasted a similar value of material to do a job I could hire done for $300. But I can now do that task.
This was indeed very helpful, thank you so much! I'm 48 and I don't have a therapy, been searching for years and trying to work on dissociation on my own. During the last months, one of my alters always reminds me to smile to people, telling me I look very frightening to them. And every time, I do as I'm asked, people not only smile back, but I notice a deep change in their body language, they visibly relax and open up. I really wasn't able to understand this, to me, a smile is nothing but an act, so I also don't trust the smiles of other people. Your explanation of social smiling really helped me to better understand what is happening and why. This is priceless!
Thank you so much!
I clicked on this as soon as I saw the title haha, my T and I have been speaking about what normal cognition is like a bit lately and it is such good perspective. I’m also Autistic and my mom describes feeling disturbed when I smiled or laughed as an infant because it “didn’t seem quite right”, so I’m sure she didn’t smile back. I’ve never thought about how impactful that kind of thing would be to my system’s view of the world, but it makes a lot of sense. We tend to assume hostility or judgment with others until we pull ourselves out of that automatic response. Looking forward to the rest of this series, thanks as always for the great resources you’re putting out here
Love love love this approach because I’ve wondered about it so many times. This type of video may also be helpful for non dissociative people to try to understand our world because you give the comparisons. You are able to do this having worked with so many of us. This could be a series that you come back to with almost never ending chapters. Thank you so much Dr Mike ❤
Wow! I appreciate all of your videos but what part really stood out to me was when you said how much effort each day is when you’re dissociative. I am 48 and was diagnosed DID this summer, after years of just trying to explain my anxiety is really really bad, I feel weird, I lose time etc. I was pleased (sadly) with the CPTSD diagnosis but the DID REALLY explains A LOT! I’m scared to be in a car accident or pulled over and then (like I do when frightened just slightly) switch to a little who - doesn’t know how to drive, and I get upset and scared and not know “how to make my car go”.
I have DID, am currently in the trauma processing portion of my treatment with a specialist and this was EXTREMELY helpful. Please continue with this series! This made so much sense to me and put so many pieces together!
I certainly will, next one planned for the weekend.
Thank you for your channel Dr. Mike. It is my first time to have a DID client. It is quite rare in our country. Your videos have helped me in my intervention with my client. I have established good rapport with him now and I am hopeful of his further progress.
That sounds amazing!
Thank you so much for this. Many years ago, we used to ask everyone, "What is normal?" We were obsessed with it. This was pre-system awareness, and then when we were also in the beginning stages of awareness. Our need to know how other people function in the world has long been a curiosity for us, but it also helps with the dreaded denial, that kept us unwell for many years.
We were a sick baby and kept in an orphanage for the first 6 months of our lives, we deeply felt this when our darling daughter was born. We saw the amazing effects of mirroring of smiling with her. Watching her normal developmental stages was incredible, we could sense that we were so very different. Due to our close bond, she knew we were different from a very early age.
Just the other day a chap smiled and said hello at the bus stop, we freaked out and had those nanoseconds of trying to figure out how the hell to respond. Have often wondered if that was normal. So thank you as always!
I love starting this series thinking about associating with others. I know as Americans we get a lot of flack for starting interactions with "how are you" with the assumption that "fine" is the only answer being that the asker doesn't actually care. But I see it just like the smiling, as a bid for knowing how to best approach an interaction. If someone tells me they aren't having a great day, are very tired, loving the weather, excited for the holidays, etc. it gives me a starting place to know how to treat that person in the course of the interaction. I actually really love that this is part of our culture.
I'm glad you got to experience some of the Midwestern friendliness! I grew up there and while there is definitely a darker side to the region, I do miss the ability to immediately befriend strangers with a smile
This was really interesting! I hadn't thought about the relationship between trauma and knowing you can impact the world around you before. Now that I think about it, that's something that I really struggle with. I constantly feel like nothing I do will really matter, and I live in my head a lot instead of in the real world. I get frustrated with myself because I try to get myself to stop retreating inward and engage with the world but even when I'm actively trying it feels impossible sometimes. I had never really thought about it as being related to early trauma though.
This, so much.
This is very helpful! I didn't realize that smiling could have such a big impact on childhood development. Thank you for putting together this series!
Great video as always, enjoyed the watch
Thank you!
This is super helpful, looking forward to the upcoming videos. Thank you!
This taught me a lot, I'm blind and dissociative, plus suspected autism by friends, it truly takes effort to smile, now I know why, thank you.
I truly hope this video has helped you.
Fascinating content, I look forward to exploring what else you have and will put out
This was mind blowing. I wasn't sure it would apply to me as I don't have DID (I have complex trauma/depersonalisation) but this video really made my day to day experience make sense. The worst part about my illness for me is the isolation but it helps to know the reasons behind it.
Despite there being a lot of difficulties in my childhood, I think it's likely that I was smiled at as a baby, so I am a little confused why this still resonates so much but it really describes how I interact with the world.
Thanks for the helpful video :)
This is incredibly helpful information! I've always wondered what kinds of things specifically make my living experiences different from someone who is not dissociative. I'm aware that my experiences are different (having DID) but I also know that because this is the only lens I have on life, these differences are essentially invisible to me and I wouldn't be able to identify them otherwise. Social smiling as a concept appears so simple but the ramifications of it not having gone "correctly" (can't find better word atm) are actually massive and complicated. Anyway your work is hugely helpful, thank you so much! Really excited about this series.
This is your most helpful video yet for us. Thank you !Looking forward to the rest of the series.
This information will help us articulate things to singletons in a way that we've just never been able to because we just didn't know what we were missing in the first place and certainly didn't have language to explain our experience in relation to what theirs might have been compared to ours.
this video was so much more insightful than i expected. being an autistic introvert who faced neglect as a kid, i got used to being sidelined and it was easy to ignore my own life through dissociation when so many other people ignored me. i'm 22 now with less dissociative barriers than ever before and i've gotten teary eyed having coworkers that acknowledge me by name and recognize me in public, and i wonder if finding the ability to acknowledge my own life made me more able to let others in in a way that matters to them and their ability to perceive me
Glad to have gone over and above what you thought it was going to be! Sound slike you are making huge steps forward.
This video was very insightful, and I really appreciate you making it. It was also quite difficult to watch, as it brought up a lot of pain from early childhood. I'm autistic, my mom was autistic, and my dad was emotionally unavailable and neglectful. As a very young child, life was horrible and terrifying. Literally no one attuned to me. Both of my parents were abusive and neglectful. My siblings were emotionally abusive as well, often taking advantage of my autistic vulnerabilities in order to hurt me for their own amusement. I also was abused from some people outside of my family, such as one of my mom's ex-boyfriends, my brother's best friend, and my best friend. I basically encountered trauma from all directions so early on, that by the time I started school, I was already heavily traumatized and terrified of people.
I don't think I ever got people smiling at me, or a sense that I could influence others (except perhaps by annoying them). I never had the sense that I had the power to get other people to connect with me (and I still don't). All of my efforts in childhood failed because of my toxic family environment (and probably also my autism). I felt like my entire existence was a burden, I was worthless, my needs were selfishness, I didn't belong anywhere, I wasn't wanted, and I was owed nothing. I have felt detached from the rest of the world/society ever since. It's like there's a barrier between myself and other people. Occasionally I can connect with people on an individual level, though usually only other neurodivergent and/or traumatized folk. I don't seem to know how to connect with neurotypicals. I also think that the way in which I naturally connect is different, and it makes it difficult to be on the same wavelength as others. I naturally gravitate towards other autistics.
I don't generally smile at strangers. Or, at least, I don't initiate smiling. If someone smiles at me I will usually force a smile in return, because I know it is socially expected, and I don't want to seem hostile. I don't think I project openness, though. I don't generally want to invite people to approach me. I don't know how to interact socially, and it's stressful and anxiety-inducing. When I get it wrong, people look at me like I'm confusing or an alien, or sometimes like I'm hostile to them (even though I feel no hostility). I've learned to mask my autism, but mostly by withdrawing and playing it safe. I keep my cards close to the vest and don't volunteer anything spontaneously. I do my best to respond to the situation as is expected, and then escape the encounter as soon as possible, before anyone can notice that something is off about me.
I don't like being socially isolated. I don't like having no friends and no support system. But I honestly don't know what to do about it. Trying to just "go out and meet people" is beyond exhausting, and usually doesn't yield any success. Even when people are chatty and friendly with me, it never goes anywhere. With great effort I can manage small talk, but I have no idea how to progress a relationship beyond a surface level.
Thank you. Valuable words. Healthy association and healthy attachment. And reality. This video is very welcome and I'll be looking forward to the next one.
Exhausting considering what I heard listening to the video and the associations with remembered experience. Having a DBT practice of nonjudgmentally observing and holding willingness for change simultaneously with acceptance of what is not implying agreement, I'm experiencing happiness acknowledging a new relationship with the perception of fatigue. Thank you. Definately looking forward to updating with my clinician. Thank you.
You are very welcome!
Thank you. Your videos helps me so much. All of them.
More very helpful bits of puzzle solving Dr. Mike! At 66 years of age following a D.I.D. diagnosis it occurred to us my step-mother never once smiled or laughed...
I can imagine that would have had quite an impact.
This is incredible!!! Thank you for doing this video series. I have a wonderful therapist but he has not had much experience describing his own internal world. It's something that I love to kid him about since I do nothing but describe mine! 😂
But to listen to you, explain it, and that you know how to break it down, really helps -- especially because I am at a midway point in integration and my internal experience is really changing. So I tend to ask questions that have to do with somebody who is non-traumatized internal experience because I'm trying to figure out if my experience is starting to match.
Once again I am impressed with how your content speaks to the heart of a question. We submitted pretty specific questions but this video addresses something underlying it all that I would never think to ask. (I had no idea smiling functioned in this way. And it gives me a lot to think on.) Very grateful for your professional insight and looking forward to the series. Thank you.
I like the word "associative" to describe a non-dissociative person. Some of what you said, I actually tried to relate to it through one of my more extraverted, social alters. I always wondered why, when he was out, people seemed a lot more drawn to us. We seemed to get into more romantic situations and he wasn't trying, it was just his way of engaging with people. He SOUNDS like a more "associative" person. Another of our social alters would often get into high-intensity social situations or would have people flirt with her, but it was more distressing. But she couldn't help getting into those situations, again it was just her extremely friendly way of engaging with people.
Interestingly enough, these two highly social alters don't tend to smile that much, even though they are very animated and charismatic. But it's clear they are on the extreme end of being ANPs, so I would be interested to know, how does an ANP differ from a non-dissociative person, exactly? 🤔
I'm wondering whether anyone else uses 'associative' as I did, it did seem quite natural to do so!
Damn. Got us thinking about who smiles and who doesn't. Normal everyday, I don't smile much if at all and unless certain others are close to the front its physically exhausting to smile for more than a few seconds. Things like going to a party or out to a pub leave us feeling absolutely hung out to dry.
That cascade effect you've described is an absolute avalanche in our experience
This explains a lot. I'm not autistic, but my parents likely are, plus some possible additional disorders. I think I never felt like I had any influence on them at all. I was only ever a set piece for their life, and a defective one at that.
WOW. This WAS very helpful, super insightful! Suddenly so many things about my life and the way I relate to the world/other people make so much more sense. Thank you so much for this video, really looking forward to the next one!
Thanks for this video! Super informative!! Can't wait for the next one!
Thanks Dr. Mike. Hope you do more on methods and ways of getting someone/me out of my head. And my heart is so closed ??? Thanks so much 💙🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻💙👊
Thank you, Dr. Mike, I’m really looking forward to the rest of the series.
Thank you for starting the series. Wild Smith started as a response to systems reaching into ask what it's like to not be dissociative I Can see how it will have the inverse effect on those who are not dissociative. In other words it gives non-systems lens in which they are encouraged to reflect on what they take as an inherent advantage/privilege of not being dissociative. How much effort systems have to put into coordinate mask and resolve any struggles that they have just to interact with people and the world.
Thank you again!
Yes! More of these please! I'd love for this to be an on-going series. 💙
I am looking forward to your next installment! I hope you had a great Thanksgiving and I hope you an equally wonderful Christmas.❤
This is so wild to me. I am stunned and don't know how to process this. I cannot wait to see the next video about this
Holy cow, I think this one hit harder than any previous.
I walk the earth with something I figure looks like a scowl. I hadn't considered how that was helping me keep others at a distance.
I hadn't realized how much safer the world feels when people see me as threatening.
Ill be looking forward to more videos in this series.
I think I’ve seen a study about how therapist conceptualize dissociation. I only read the summary, but the authors said something in line with that it’s important to discuss how you view/conceptualize dissociation. Avoiding doing so could cause an issue in the therapeutic alliance due to misinterpretation of what the therapist.. think or something. I’ve thought about it a lot and I agree. I’ve experienced it and the issue wasn’t that I wasn’t being heard or something, but our conceptualization did not match.
Can you do a video on eye contact? Im currently still dealing with minimal to 0 eye contact, even when present. It seems to be a shame thing where if i dont look at my therapist, I feel I can try to focus harder on not talking about my severe trauma, which I know isnt healthy, but sort of an automatic response to avoid. Especally when digging deep. What is odd is smaller age regressed alternative states dont seem to struggle as much with this issue, except one who seems to keep there eyes shut. My therapist is still struggling with that age regressed state to move or to open there eyes. I would love more detail on how you approch those issues.😊
All I can say is that this is HUGE! Thank you for explaining this. I look forward to Object Permanence. That has been an issue for me, and now I know it comes from my DID, and that is encouraging.
I was going to mention autism. Glad you did. It doesn't have to be a 'deep' level of autism either. I don't know if this is was part of my development Pretty sure I wouldn't have got a response even had I done the 'normal' infant smile initiation.
One of the biggest factors in understanding that I'm AuDHD with a abusive childhood was hearing snippets of what 'normal' thinking, social interaction and childhood was like. It took by far the longest to understand what dissociation was (from descriptions of dissociation) because what was being described was my normal and I couldn't figure out what was 'wrong' about that as there was no description of what the alternative was.
This is a very important topic. Looking forward to part 2 (&3?).
Thank you, really helpful explanation if a little harrowing, it fits with my internal attitude of feeling that I can't really influence anything, looking forward to the next part
I love this approach to answering this particular question! I found it very enlightening and helpful. I need to give it some more thought, but it makes quite a bit of sense to me. Smiles don't really feel safe, and that is genuinely kind of sad
Very very helpful! I have DID and for me is not quite easy to see the differences between people without dissociation.
Happy greetings from Costa Rica. Your videos are always useful! ❤
Hello to you from the UK!
This video was so helpful and instructive! I know that I've always struggled with perceiving and reciprocating social cues like facial expressions...this really makes sense of why, especially given my primary caregiver. I can't wait for the rest of this series!
Glad it helped!
We have an autistic brain, which might have disrupted the social smiling development... Great insight as to why many of us still struggle to feel that we can affect other people, the outside world and our own life. We generally feel like ghost entities trapped in a body to which we don't really relate and a life that feels fake and disconnected from who we are. When our presence in the outside world is acknowledged by people initiating contact (for example by greeting or asking something) we often internally startle at it, because we unconsciously assume we're kind of invisible to others. It's hard to remember that the body is perceivable and perceived (and that creates expectations of social engagement and about our identity) even if we feel invisible. Thanks a lot, looking forward for the next part!!
Thank you, too!
Excellent!!!
That makes a lot of sense. I have recently experienced rythme. I have been playing music and had music lessons with a lot of focus on rhythm but never really felt it. When I sometimes feel it rhythm I also feel in tune/connected to others following the same rhythm. So that must be an experience of being inside my body.
Super helpful video 🙏 I realise I kinda go through the world as if I'm invisible. Both my parents were emotionally neglectful and I've heard I was not taken good care of as a baby from what older family members have said. I have a hard time with eye contact, which might both be because I'm possibly autistic too, but also it is just scary being seen! I was taught that if I was seen it would make me a target for abuse from both my family and peers at school. I have developed mild short sightedness in my late 20s and I honestly avoid using glasses to create more of a barrier between me and the world (especially people). Also it helps me if I don't recognise someone due to amnesia I can just blame it on my bad eyesight 😅
Also I'm very quick at smiling at people automatically because I've learned to people please since me being nice ment less chance of abuse. I just smile all the time and sometimes my over-friendly demeanor has been misunderstood as flirting, which is also dangerous because then sexual protectors step in and are in fight/flight not knowing they can say no 😅
Thank you, im audhd and have CPTSD. It's only been in the last few years. i smile to people.
Thank you for this video.
Not sure if this a question fitting for this series per se, but I wonder if you could talk about the, especially OSDD, experience of questioning your system, and what it is like to not be sure whether or not this is going on for you. It's such an odd in between stage of questioning if everything you do is too forced or fake, while also trying to be accepting of yourself. I just wonder what someone without OSDD may experience differently in such a situation.
Sounds like we may be in a similar spot. My approach rn is to lean into “maybe I am a system” and see if it helps or hurts my life and go from there
If this was an ongoing series I would reference each video multiple times. I think it would be very helpful. I could start with an initial watch then later on in treatment where it feels appropriate refrence it again in a different state of mind.
Walking around smiling at people means more men will approach me with sexual interest. And they won't be classy
And I would not feel safe.
People are not kind when they want sex.
Great video though, really made sense to me! Looking forward to part two.
If you want, can you mention what it's like when something really moves you emotionally?
Or like.. to process an experience with all parts of you? Does it flow through? Does it change you? I always feel disjointed and like things get stuck
Maybe you have something to say on that, idk
@@grimming4886 definitely don’t go around smiling at everyone! It’s more of an innate skill that is learned to work out social engagement when needed. Thanks also for the suggestion!
This helped me for sure. Thank you
Glad it helped!
Thank you for this Dr Mike.
Welcome!
A smile is a positive and a negative thing for sure. Smiling attracts all kinds of people and in our case, the not so nice are like magnetized to come to us if we just casually smile and not even at them. So I guess, better just look more grumpy all the time >.>
That’s right, it can be useful, but at times better to have a neutral or ‘stay away’ face…
As an Autistic, learning disabled child, that was where the physical abuse began, because my mother believed I should have my lack of smiles and what she called,”bad moods”( not having expressions and being overwhelmed and terrified most of the time) beaten out of me, which is where a dissociative persona came into being, and would obey the direction to smile after my beatings and show gratefulness, happiness and whatever they wanted me to express or act like, so further abuse wouldn’t occur in that moment. That part became my Autistic mask for every social situation…in order to be safe. Being whatever others needed, wanted and enjoyed. As an older poor, Autistic, disabled and chronically ill nonbinary human, not many humans smile back anyway, which makes me feel very unreal and invisible.
That sounds so sad. I hope you've found people you know you can trust.
Hey you sound just like me🥺🥺🥺🥺 this is my experience but from a strangers eyes. I’m so sorry it happened to us
Thank you so much for your kind words.
I’m sorry for us too! Thank you for letting me know I am not alone in this. You have smiled back in understanding, and that means so much.
Socialising is never easy but I force myself to do it. So much hardworking.
It odd how trauma can dictate the way you interact with others, especially when you was young. I have no memory of this, but I was told that when I was a kid, I use to walk up to strangers and full blown made friends with them; most tended to be adults. I had friends my age, but for some reason, I was always trynna be friends with the adults. Then I sorta figured out, that it could've been us trynna escape, we wanted to be kidnapped or taken away, cause we knew we was going back to bad things. I think I was tynna seek out a parent figure to save the kid,who never got to be child, forced to grow up to survive a environment of oppression and extreme trauma.
Just writing this has me disassociating, but it important to share this experience, as it could help someone else going through trauma, to recognize and hopefully to help them to seek help.
Very helpful 👏
Glad you think so!
This was helpful, thank you
I love your videos as usuall and this helps me greatly i alwaysbgwt something from your videos thank you
Wow interesting. I’ve always known to smile, and been hyper aware of how whatever I express can impact the situation. For me I do it even when I DON’T want to. It feels like I have to. That if I don’t and the other person (walking down the street, at the shops, or in a friend group) isn’t ok - that my tension will be worse.
It feels like I am in charge of interactions. That somehow I can see what others don’t, and can jump in and steer conversation or notice when someone is feeling left out. It’s pressure. All on me.
It’s exhausting. I hate it. I wish I could choose not to.
Very good, thank you!!!
Glad you liked it!
Really?? It can be like that? Wow, that must be heaven. I never knew, thanks for explaining.
It can be very helpful, to be sure, but isn’t perfect! I sometimes make connections that I wished I hadn’t!
Thanks a lot for that interesting video. It helps a lot!
Now I wonder, is the “parathyme smile/laugh” the same phenomenon, or does it come from the same place? Or is that something completely different?
Thank you for your work!
How does Racism affect Social Smiling? I can’t imagine sitting down at any bar or cafe and having anyone smile back at me?
I suspect a racist person would see the colour (for example) and adopt their entrenched belief system, so a smile could be seen as a threat or laughter at them (triggering the inevitable insecurity). Being subjected to racism could mean that a smile is perceived as threat as well. The smile should enable safety, but experience may counter this.
I have discovered that experiencing any form of oppression, poverty, and/or minority status( for me, it is multiply disabled and poor) where we are already not seen by most as being fully human, not receiving a smile back when we seek to connect through social smiling can feel devastating-as though we are invisible and not even worthy of acknowledgement…as though we subhuman, as though we are not alive. This is my experience anywhere in my community, and I would never wish it on anyone. 😔
I have so much trauma and am dealing with so much. I'm queer, trans, cant get access to good healthcare, have ODDD, CPTSD, Autism, and ADHD. I feel like I handle it really well but i have to adopt a very punk underground anarchist lifestyle otherwise im just completely disenpowered and have nowhere to go.
I do not have many pictures from my childhood...in the pictures I do have, there are exactly zero pictures of me smiling..I am just blankly staring into the camera. To this day, I rarely smile...mostly, as an adult, I smile to put others at ease..smiling is an "act" and those of us with DID know exactly how to "act" so as not to be ridiculed or abused even more...we are professionals at deflecting...
Very eye opening. Just kinda wild how that is an automatic thing for 'associative' people and that probably explains some stuff about our sociability cause we don't really do that (and when we do it feels kinda forced)
Very useful thank you
I HAVE A QUESTION!
This video only reinforces my theory that the "neurodivergent brain" (whether ADHD, ASD, or DID) are all simply different variations of a traumatized brain that solidified this networking early due to the presence of trauma.
Having said that, I use a bunch of tips and tricks an ADHD person would find helpful to stay on time and know where I put things. But I don't have ADHD, I have DID. At least, I think I do. 😅 Does this mean there's a dissociative component to ADHD (and autism, respectively)?
Or am I lying to myself about having DID and are all the skeptics right about it not existing and I just have ADHD? 😉
I'm asking a lot with these questions, I know.
It is a good question. We often see overlap in symptomology between all three conditions, but the cause of the symptoms can be quite different. That’s why in-depth assessment is so vital.