The X-Cars were GM's first front-wheel-drive, transverse-engine cars, but not the first built in the USA by an American automaker -- that honor goes to the Dodge Omni and Plymouth Horizon, introduced in 1978, although with the caveat that they were co-developed with Chrysler Europe and thus were not 100% American-designed. For the first few years they also used VW and Peugeot engines, rather than Chrysler's own. Speaking of which, VW also began manufacturing the Rabbit in their Westmoreland, PA plant in 1978; it was obviously a German-designed car, but the U.S.-built ones were called "Malibuized" because they had a softer suspension and color-keyed interior to suit American tastes. And as part of the deal to supply Chrysler with engines, VW got to use Chrysler-made automatic transmissions in their cars.
@@danfarris135 - GM's first front-wheel-drive, transverse-engine cars. Just lift up the hood and look at the engine. My 1979 Toronado had a longitudinal 350 engine.
I had two X-cars as company cars… an ‘81 Olds Omega with the Iron Duke and an ‘84 Buick Skylark with the V-6. I was driving 20k miles per year and both of them held up. Adam is correct. The interiors were comfortable and roomy and neither car stranded me. What I most remember was both of them had pronounced torque steer at full throttle and the 4-cylinder Omega was very crude… noisy with considerable vibration. The paint on both left much to be desired, as well.
I had an '82 Omega. (Also a '78, but totally different platform.) You are correct about the paint. The EPA had banned the older style of painting the the paint itself because of off gassing hurting the ozone layer. It took every company a while to get the new process right, some (GM and Chrysler) longer than others. Mine had an issue with dumping transmission fluid at random times. The trunk seals never fully sealed despite replacing them. I joked it was a safety feature. When it rains the spare wheel well fills with water to add rear ballast. Oddly, I must have gotten one of the few that never had breaking issues. Yes, I could lock the tires and on more than one occasion stopped while pointing 45° off from the direction I'd started, but that wasn't unusual for cars if the era. But it was a comfortable cruiser. And for $600 in 1988 I couldn't complain about the price.
Yeah, them Iron Duke engines were pretty crude. My sister had a 1981 base model Camaro with that engine, with automatic and it was awful. When you stepped on the gas, it just made more noise.
The X-cars had such promise but they arguably drove more loyal GM customers into the arms of imports than ever. Case in point was my uncle who was a die hard GM buyer from 1960 until his purchase of a new 1983 Skylark Limited V6. Loaded with every option and a beautiful velour interior…but the honeymoon was very short. The car was plagued with so many drivability woes, most notably a transmission failure at 13k miles. Adding all the recalls, he grew disgusted with the car and dumped it in early 1986 and purchased a new Toyota Camry. And he drove only Toyotas until his passing in 2017.
The X cars were rushed to market for a variety of reasons: GM (and Ford) were pressured to bring a small, fuel efficient car to market by the gov't in response to the 1973-74 oil embargo (it took the feds several years thereafter before being able to give the Big 3 direction regarding fuel economy - which included gov't incentives). In addition, the bean counters were working overtime cutting corners not just on engineering, but quality control. And in typical GM fashion, when they finally have the cars dialed in correctly, they cancel the program. 1984-85 X cars were not too bad for the era. GM did the same with the 1990/91 Reatta, 2000-2002 Eldorado, and 2018/2019 Impala (to name three). Good video!
I'm fully convinced there was never a need to regulate MPGs for American manufacturers, and that with a dysfunctional formula to go by to calculate those MPGs is a major part of what killed the greatness of American automobiles of the 60s. The oil issues were also in place because of our government. Foreign competition was so great because our government was so lenient towards imports and lack of demand they do the same for our products.
All of that was not necessary, they merely could have put smaller engines in their large cars and continued to engineer them to get better gas mileage, (and outsourced diesels), that would have been cheaper and more effective in the long run than completely engineering a car from the ground up. Yesz the cars would have been slow, but the 55 mph speed limit did not require a lot of power and it would have just been a reality of understanding that gas was expensive, so drag racing was not necessary as long as we can get to a to b in comfort and reliability and still retaining style as a side benefit with a small V8 or even a mid-size V6 or large four cylinder in a traditionally sized car that was engineered to handle 55mph would have been a much better solution, not only for gas mileage, but for retaining the essential parts of styling and comfort and size that America abandoned when they tried to compete with countries that had been building them for 50 years because of poverty and requirements of size that we just didn't suffer from. Competing on your competitions home soil is always going to put you at a disadvantage and they really should have focused on more economical engines and perhaps aerodynamics rather than front-wheel drive, downsized nonsense.
Summer, 1981....having had my learner's permit for a few months, my junior high science teacher stopped by my house with a brand new 1981 Chevy Citation 5 door hatch. The teacher had a summer job teaching behind the wheel. The Citation was supplied by a local Chevrolet dealership who loaned the school system new vehicles on a yearly basis. We spent a few days a week for a couple of weeks driving around town and learning the basics. The challenging thing was reversing and finding the rear sightlines....we managed to reverse into a concrete wall a few times but the 5 mph bumpers shrugged it off without issue. On a family vacation, I met someone who was also taking behind the wheel...and her school system was getting the "new K-cars" probably a Dodge Aries. The car was pretty well equipped...and was a white over cinnabar two tone paint combo with a dove gray velour interior. I remember the aroma of new car smell and mint flavored chewing gum...our teacher chewed gum constantly and had packs of gum stashed in the glove box. Probably to calm down while teaching new drivers in a new car that had to go back to the dealer at the end of the summer. We would go over the features....the teacher said he would tune the radio...he kept it off mostly and adjusted the climate control. We did get to try out the cruise control and the resume feature...which would cause the car to full throttle accelerate when engaged...and the iron duke would thrash in the background getting us up to 55 mph....the legal limit back then. The last day, he would invite a parent to join us and offer feedback on our driving skills. So my Mom joined us for a session. I had to work on my lane changes but other than that he was very happy with my driving ability. The Citation was a perfect car to learn on...not too big...not too small and not powerful enough to get into serious trouble. I would then start driving my parents cars....a G-Body Cutlass and a PA build VW Rabbit during the height of the Malaise era.
@@adamwhite3584 Sorry! We were on a tour bus and conversing for a couple of hours...and we were both really excited about having learner's permits and looking forward to taking behind the wheel....never saw her again after that.
I’d say it was the Vega. The lessons learned by GM between it and these x cars made that they was such a disaster inexcusable and proved that GM management was too bureaucratic to compete.
My Dad bought an ‘81 Pontiac Phoenix used in 1981. I think it was 9 months old when we got it. It was a GM employee’s car. It was an ok car. It completely rusted out and had to be repainted. The transmission blew when we were on a trip down south. My Dad won a an arbitration case against GM for the blown transmission. It was the first car that I drove. The brakes were terrible. The left side wheels would lock up before the right side. If you were not careful, you could go into a spin because of the brakes locking up. We kept the car until 1992. I learned a lot about driving from this car.
My aunt won a 1982 Buick Skylark from Publisher's Clearinghouse. I remember it being a very nice looking car and asked her about it years later. She didn't have much good to say about it.
My parents bought a 1980 Pontiac Phoenix LJ hatchback in the spring of 1979. Red on red. Really turned heads as it just came out. We toured the Tarrytown NY assembly plant. Soon after delivery the parking brake broke. They had to replace the entire dashboard with a black one they repainted red. It looked terrible. We had the rear brake problems and steering morning sickness. It was my car through college and I really liked it.
It looked terrible. We had the rear brake problems and steering morning sickness. It was my car through college and I really liked it. That's pretty funny.
My parents had an '82 Citation 5-door with the V6. It was one of the first two cars I drove after getting my license in the summer of '87. They kept it until the fall of '89. It was actually kind of fun to drive - the V6 had way more oomph than my parents' '83 Sentra, and was a far more reliable vehicle; that Sentra was garbage. While GM studied the Lancia Beta and VW Dasher to learn about FWD compact cars, Volvo used the Citation as a test mule for the Volvo 850's 5 cylinder engine.
Didn't notice you beat me to it about Volvo using the X-Car mules. Given the massive torque from the Volvo I-5 - especially the Turbo I-5, the mules must have been a hoot to drive!
I was a warranty admiistration in the years when the x bodies were introduced and they actuallly had over 20 recalls before they could be sold in fall 79
Adam, my late father bought a 1980 Chevy Citation brand new. It had a V6, 4-speed. I still have copies of the letters he sent to GM, complaining about the car, and all of its problems. But, eventually it was a good car, as he kept it for 18 years, and 198,000 miles. We took it on several trips, and in August of 1980, my Sister and her first husband took it on their honeymoon to Washington DC. Also, my 4th car was a 1981 Citation 2-door hatchback, with the 2.5 4cyl, 4-speed. It was a pretty good car. I did however have problems with the steering, and it went through at least 3 high pressure power steering lines.
While I agree that the A bodies were essentially spiritual successors to the X body, the late unlamented L-body: Chevrolet Corsica and Beretta deserve some mention in this evolution since they were marketed for almost a decade until return of the reimagined Malibu. A pretty much forgotten car…but might warrant a retrospective review.
Maybe I'd call myself an X car expert... I worked on many and owned a few. In fact, i was driving a $100 rotted out V6 stripper Citation coupe in 1988, repairing a Corvair at the curb in Montréal, when I met a guy who got me started in real estate, and that new career changed my life
The 1980 Pontiac Phoenix was the last American car my family bought. Generations of our families have now purchased Hondas and Toyota. I can remember driving the car and it was great on gas, quiet unless under acceleration, and ran well until it didn't. The front seat bottom fell apart and the dealer couldn't get it run after about 30k miles. They just disconnected the pollution controls and plugged the vacuum lines with screws. It would barely idle and wouldn't accelerate and when it did it backfired. A neighbor went through several x and j cars unable to keep them running and kept trading them in. They then bought VW's.
My mom had a Phoenix 2.5L and Grandma had a Skylark 2.8 V6, both 1980's. My mom got rid of hers after 4 years but the Skylark stayed with my Grandma for 25 years and really wasn't that bad.
We had a 1981 Oldsmobile Omega 2 door Brougham. It was a good car and I loved it. It was burgundy inside and out. However my aunt had a Pontiac phoenix and she hated it! lol she was so mad when my uncle came home with it. 😂
I owned a 81 Chevy Citation X-11 back in the mid 80s, it was my first car. My parent's helped me buy it to get to work. I had it for 5-6 yrs before i sold it. Had lots of good times in that car.
I have been a mechanic since the late 70's and a shop owner for the last 11 years. I remember those cars very well. I am a land yacht (pre 1977) person but I own a 1980 Citation 2dr hatch V6 auto with only 54K original miles on it. The 1980 models were the only year with no computer, only electronic ignition. Yes, the X cars were a bit crude but once you got used to them they were very reliable and comfortable. The braking system was a new learning curve from the older cars, the transmissions were known for design flaws and yes the steering rack issues were not only a GM problem.
It's unfortunate how the X cars turned out. They could have been so much more, and done so much better for GM. I remember how common they were in the early and mid 80's, but they thinned out fast even before 1990. Now, I can't remember the last time I've seen one.
Once again, learned a ton about a GM platform that I thought I was thoroughly knowledgeable about. Thanks Adam. Nearly a three year sub of your channel and really like your content (and fabulous car collection). Yes, would have preferred an X platform Cimarron over the Cavalier J-Car with chrome that our Cadillac District Sales Managers had to force on dealers to get better preferencing on faster moving, more profitable models. But it’s all part of automotive history that you document so well.
We took delivery of our V6 Buick Skylark Limited in December 1979, loaded with options but with a standard trans. As a Ford guy I have to admit the car was pretty darn good. I put close to 200,000 miles on it before passing to my local service station who stuck it into a neighbour's Citation who added another 100,000 miles on the mill. Love your channel Adam, keep up the good work.
I owned a 1980 Buick Skylark Limited Two Door in black that I purchased new. The only problem, the wipers would come on all by themselves while a puff a smoke would actually come out of the wiper stalk! It was excellent in the snow with the skinny tires and front wheel drive at Watertown NY. I traded for a 1981 LeSabre which was a disaster and another story . . .
I always enjoy your videos covering your own vehicles. However, I equally enjoy these videos full of esoteric information we didn't get at the time. Thanks so much!
I remember when the x cars were about to come out, there was a lot of secrecy surrounding them. My dad had been looking at a new Cutlass but wanted to see the new Citation we got to sit in one and even drive it but the dealer did not have the window sticker for the car yet. The day the prices came out my dad drove down to the Chevrolet dealer to take a look and the Citation was over $8000 it was a loaded model with practically every option you could get. Dad was sticker shocked and went right down to the Oldsmobile dealer and bought the Cutlass for $5500 with the trade in of our '72 Impala Sport Sedan. After the recalls on the Citations started dad was so glad he bought the Cutlass we drove it 8 years with very few problems
Adam , your knowledge about this subject is astounding. You’ve really caused me to look at the x cars in a different light. I remember these cars well growing up in the 80s. Especially the Citation.
This video was quite good: the information, the education, the facts and the images. I knew there was a connection to the A bodies. The C and H Bodies look like larger A Bodies. You can clearly see it in the styling. The X Bodies spawned so much and created so much for future models. It impacted so much although they did not live on past 1984-1985. They had worked out the issues by then. You can see how the European cars influenced GM. This was a learning time for GM indeed with the X Bodies. You can see how the N Bodies were influenced by the X Cars too. You see it in the Omega and Phoenix and Skylark which became an N Body. Thank you so much Adam.
I enjoy all the new things I have learned from your videos. I paid close attention from 71-88 to GM products. The Eldorado’s of the early 70’s were beautiful but too flashy even in my 17 year old dreams but the Toronado was angular perfection to my eyes. At 67 I have collected all my dream cars with the exception of a gold and black 72 or 73 Toronado but I’m always on the lookout for the right one.
Sad but true. A local Ecology wrecking yard had a mint condition black 1972 Toronado a few years ago, on blocks and sent to the crusher six weeks later. My 1972 is being repainted back into the original Nordic blue in a few months.
As always, an exceptional video. I liked the X cars. Friends had a 4-door Citation that was VERY roomy. Another friend had a loaded '82 Skylark 2-door. Zero problems in 8 years of ownership.
Thanks for this one, Adam.. I drove a lot of X cars when they were new as a Buick-Pontiac salesman.. At first, they looked promising, but driving characteristics left a lot to be desired. Torque steer was especially pronounced, and braking was a fraught experience as well. On the other hand, seats were comfortable, and they were easy to park and maneuver.
I actually got used to and even appreciated torque steer. Gave that "front wheel drive" feeling. There was a sense of controlling power. Right at your fingertips.
I had a 1982 Pontiac Phoenix hatchback that I bought used in 1984. I loved that little car. It handled beautifully, had plenty of pep (2.5l 4cyc). The transmission seemed to shift more than other automatics I have driven but it never had any problems. The only thing I remember that was annoying was the driver's window crank would always pop off. I replaced it several times, but could never solve the problem. After reading all the comments here, I guess I got a rare good one, but after all these years I still have fond memories of that car.
Rode as a backseat passenger in my brother’s Pontiac Phoenix… full day across very hot Midwest landscape. Remember it as being quite comfortable with four adults and some luggage.
During high school, one of my friends had a 2 door Buick Skylark. It had the anemic 2.5 Iron Duke so no speed records were set! It was dark blue with blue interior. It was a very comfortable car to ride in.
Back in the day the first v6 cars off the assembly line had rack and pinion issues, would blow the seals. There were no racks available for warranty replacement so we would bench rebuild them and put them back in. After a while we had a couple of spares so were could quick turn two cars a day then last thing before going home rebuild another two racks for the next day. Our rebuilds never came back probably because we sourced the seals from an out side company rather than using the weak GM ones.
I have been the proud owner of an Ods Omega V6, drove it about 120.k km over a 10 years period without any major complaint. The comfort was great compared to European cars of the time, performance was marginal for a 2.8 engine as well as the range probably due to a too small fuel tank in relation to the fuel consumption which was about 11 l/100 km. I agree that changing the sparks plugs of the rear row of cylinders was a nightmare for the mechanic. Also, the car was the victim of rust on the lower part of the body due to salty winter roads in Northern Europe (I imagine that a similar situation exists in the Northern part of the US and in Canada). When my Omega did not look very nice, I finaly exchanged it for a Series 5 BMW with a 2 liters 6 cylinders that gave the same performance for a smaller fuel consumption.
The wheel covers on the Olds X-car was sooo stereotypical Oldsmobile and I love it…..now. Back in the day, I disliked Olds styling but I’ve come to fully appreciate it now. I’m so intrigued now as to how the different divisions imparted their own unique personalities in the same platform; a feast for auto stylists today when reviewing the history of auto styling.
I was super excited about the X-11 Citation in 1980. I was budget constrained, so I bought a used car instead. In 1985 I did buy a new car, an Olds Cutlass Ciera with the 3.8 V6. My mom had bought a Cutlass Ciera with the Iron Duke 2.5, I was impressed with the power of the 3.8.
I bought a 100,000 mile 1980 X-11 in 1987 for $600, and that was about all it was worth. I could make a long list of everything that broke/fell off. My favorite was when the four speed shifter bracket's spot welds failed and the shifter lever came off it's mount LOL.
I had an 81 X-11 that was the best Performance version of the vehicle, it was Jon Moss's first project, it had a higher HP engine with a working cowl induction hood, the sub frames had a welded reinforcement to the cowl, look it up this was a unique vehicle and certainly the most desirable X body. It was a good match against the VW GTI that was the darling of that time. Unfortunately a drunk read ended mine and totalled it
My first car was an 82 Pontiac Phoenix. It rotted from the bottom up in less than 9 years. But it was actually very easy to drive and comfortable for 4 adults.
I was in South Korea in 1980, and our old taxi's on base were mid-70's Novas when I got there. They started the transition into the Buick Skylark X-variant. I was pleased with how much more comfortable it was compared to the Nova, but amazed how they could easily go up a hill on snow and ice from a standing start, when it was very difficult getting the Nova up that same hill. That Skylark proved to me that FWD was a good choice if you are driving a front engine vehicle.
My Dad worked for GM after WWII and worked his way up the chain until retirement in 1989. At some point in time he was able to buy several new cars each year at a discount. He bought one truck and one family car each year. We kids got in on the deal too. I owned many GM cars over the years and had almost zero problems. I owned four of the X cars and only had one instance where the electric fan died. Of course, we only kept each car for a year or so and never experienced any of the high-mileage issues. I still buy new GM cars to this day when the ones I want are available. I did settle for a KIA this year as I could not get any GM dealers here in AZ to get a new compact SUV.
Was in highschool in those days neighbor across the street purchased first year Omega V-6 in the first year it was towed because it would crank over but not start, Liked the looks of the Citation especially the X-11 .
Some real good info there! My first driver was an 81 citation 4 door hatch, 2.5/4 speed. Something a lot of people don’t know and argue, while the automatic was a straight 3 speed, the manual trans, was a 3 speed plus overdrive, although it was just marketed as a 4 speed.
Good report! I was issued a Citation 4 door hatchback company car in 1980. My POV was a 1974 Volvo 145. The Citation drove great, was quiet, had enormous passenger space and a rear space into which I carried several hundred pounds of T 8 CCR, safety & risk management materials. This was it's weakness: the rear bumper dropped by a few inches. Recall no loss of handling to and from San Diego to El Centro, CA.
The 1980 cars had a normal bench seat. The 81s had the tray in the middle because the Feds required either a seatbelt for the center seating position OR make it impossible to sit in the middle.
Great video Adam, as always. Would love to see a very detailed A-Body video if you're able to do one. Would be an awesome addition to the channel. Thanks :)
Neat video, these cars came to life as I got my drivers license. As a muscle car guy I hated them of course but I will admit the X bodies were very practical cars and the interiors were very luxurious feeling relative to the cars they replaced.
The rear brakes were prone to locking the rear wheels, suspension would squat, lifting the wheels off of the ground😮 Reverse donuts were awesome...until the engine overheats😂
Thanks for a great review of the X-body cars. I had a new 1980 Citation 4-cylinder automatic, and must’ve experienced at least half of the teething problems you described: carburetor problems; door hinge / door sagging; power steering intermittently dropping out during turns, or squealing / shreaking for its life. The worst problem was 4 heater core failures in the first 18 months, with antifreeze coolant dripping into the front passenger-side footwell. I was on a first name basis with the cashier at the dealership. Not surprisingly , she told me I needed to get rid of that car. Despite all of these problems, it was still an OK car, and only broke down on me once in the seven years I had it. It was, however, the last GM car that I will ever own.
It was 1984, I was in 4th grade, and my dad traded off my mom's Dodge Omni 024 for a green '81 Citation 2.8L V6 hatchback auto. I think that was the only time my dad broke my mom's heart. When she got home from work, dad had already brought the Citation home--she was crushed. I really try to find something good about it...but honestly, the Citation encapsulates everything that went wrong for the Big 3 Domestics in the 80's. It was butt-ass ugly (strictly in my opinion), plus keep in mind...that was right when I think Ford came out with the Ford Tempo/Mercury Topaz line...which was a fresh looking (again, in my opinion) design. I love these backstory features, Adam...thanks again!
Lol! Traded a pos for another pos! My parents bought a 1985 dodge omni brand new and had to take it in for warranty work SEVERAL times for various things breaking on it. They got rid of it less than a year after buying it and said it was even worse than the AMC Pacer they owned before that😂 a true lemon!
I bought a new Citation V-6 in July 1980. We had almost no trouble with it in 85,000 miles! I had a relative who had a Pontiac version and his was in the shop about 3 months of the first year. In those days, no dealers in our area provided loaner cars. But it suffered many problems common to cars of that era; emergency handling was a joke and the rear suspension was solid axle and would hop around like crazy on a rough road. The braking was poor and the interior was all hard plastic.
16:03 Good Job Adam... Oldsmobile diesel did play such an important role in the late 70's to mid 80's in automotive history....I wish these X-cars did get the Olds diesel...
The 82+ A-bodies were more than just a spiritual successor to the X-bodies, they shared many of the same floorpan amd orher stampings as well, and many underhood/suspension parts too. The A cars are really what the X cars should have been from the get-go. And it always makes me wonder how different the automotive landscape would have been had GM worked through the bugs and refined the designs and engineering more thoroughly before releasing them. Aftetall, the A cars were sales leaders, and produced up until 1996 for the Ciera/Century versions.
You said that you wanted to hear that engine run about the v5 diesel. I am most certain that it would shake, smoke, and rattle like a box of rocks not unlike many other diesels. I do enjoy your presentations, keep up the good work.
I liked the Citation and the Phoenix the best. They were good looking cars and the 2.8L V6 wasnt a bad engine. For a first attempt, these cars were not the worst out there. I still wish you could buy a car with the 2.8L V6 as it had some jump to it. Plate C
The 2.8 became the 3.1, then there was a dual overhead cam 3.4, then a regular 3.5 on the same design. The 3.5 had 200 hp and my friend had a 2005 Malibu with it. It was quick!
Its last iteration is the 3900. We have one in a 2006 Impala LTZ. 240hp. It goes quite well for a car its size and still only having a 4 speed auto trans.@@jamesengland7461
Great videos! I enjoy your knowledge and your videos a lot. Off subject and for like the past week now every single day UA-cam is unsubscribing me from your channel. I subscribe again every time and it seems like every day unsubscribed again and it’s like that for a few other channels that I watch. This is the seventh time I had to resubscribe in the past couple of weeks.
Mom only bought 1 NEW car in her life - 1980 Citation. Recalled like 9 times in the first 1 1/2 years. We posted each one on the refrigerator door. Mom missed a lot of work because of that car. - - A real shame, as it was a good looking car, and nice [ for what it was] interior [ except for the sideways mounted radio. It drove nice, and was comfortable. Also great interior size. IF ONLY….. 🚗🙂
When the very first 1980 Citations were made available it was discovered the owners' manuals had been printed in a size that wouldn't fit into the glove compartment. If that's not a bad sign, I don't know what is.
If GM had beat Chrysler to the minivan,, Chrysler might not exist today. I know they did good with the K car platform. But without the minivan being a Chrysler exclusive. They probably wouldn't have made it through the 80's. That's just my opinion. I'd love to hear what others think about this
I think you're right, and while the Chevy Astro was very dependable, it and the Ford Aerostar were too trucklike and a pain in the butt to climb in and out of, with worse gas mileage. Also even harder to work on than any fwd car.
I had a 1980 Citation 2-door hatch with the Iron Duke 4 and 4 speed transmission. I drove it for nearly 8 years, and the biggest problem I ever had was with the cv-joint boots - they would not last. When the AC died in 1989, I decided to retire it forever and get something else.
Yes, I had the Pontiac Phoenix version and I remember back then. I took it in before I knew about the recall and they had to replace the whole breaking system on all four corners plus ended up replacing the struts in the front and it never cost me a nickel but boy it must have really cost them
Those cars had unequal-length half-shafts driving the front wheels which created a fair amount of torque-steer. You could accelerate and you had to counter-steer just to hold these things in the road; and the Celebrity was no different. GM had lent Motortrend Magazine models that specifically had the torque-steer engineered out when they awarded it "Car of the Year" in 1980. IIRC the Citation was the only model produced in 1985 and by that time it was renamed the "Citation II." Officials with the NHTSA said "This thing needs a CITATION." GREAT VIDEO!
Alec Issigonis was a genius. The path to the modern front-drive layout took several steps beyond that. Fiat brought the end-on gearbox a few years later (Autobianchi Primula), then MacPherson struts (Fiat 127/128). Then the layout took off after that. The X-cars were the first North-American-designed model to use it. Chrysler Horizon was a European design which was a development from an earlier Simca design. Every innovation is built on the shoulders of what came before...
Great car but remember the gearbox was built into the bottom of the engine which made them not very scalable if you wanted bigger engines. You would have to redesign the gearbox as well. Fiat was the first to do a tranverse engine with the gearbox on end of the engine
Great video! It's refreshing to see a history of these cars that honestly appraises their qualities and defects. I've had quite a few A and X bodies and they'll always be my favorite cars, probably because my first car was an 86 Eurosport coupe. My current fleet is heavily A/X centric LOL 😂
I don't care what people think. I like the looks of these cars. I would happily drive one today. I've never been in an X-Body car. But I've driven a few A-Body cars and I really liked them. Would definitely drive one today
I had a 1980 Citation 2 door hatchback, v6 auto, I bought it from a little old lady in about 1990. It was a pleasant, useful car that I did not have much trouble with.
I really enjoyed this video. Is that two-tone Citation yours? If so, can you please feature it? You forgot the quirky 60k mile service tab that pops up, too!
I will never forget seeing a Citation doing a 180 coming to a stoplight, the driver was just bewildered. No one was injured and he drove away after an awkward reverse 180.
I think the reverse-crank windows were common on a lot of cars in the eighties. I seem to remember our Renault Alliance having that quirk, as well as many other cars I rode in back then.
I remember the ads when these came out. They had a Citation sawn in half with the front half driving (supported by a dolly - maybe it was better with no rear brakes!). They (ironically) also bragged that it was the most tested new model ever released - driven over 1 million miles. PS I think you forgot to mention the cracking V6 engine blocks.
My inlaws preordered a 1980 Citation delivery was delayed for months. It was as i recall a basic model with 4 cylinder and manual trans they drove it 140,000 miles with only minor issues along the way.
Thanks for showing some love to the much-maligned X-cars, but shouldn’t Chrysler get recognition as the first domestic auto company to produce a transverse engine FWD car with the 1978 introduction of the Omni/Horizon? It may have been based on the European Chrysler Horizon introduced that same year but the US L-body was heavily re-engineered for the US market. Plus by 1980 MoPar had two L-body variants on the market in the form of the new -for-1979 Dodge Charger and the Plymouth Omni 024.
The X cars were the first fully designed and built in the US. Omnis were designed with the help of Chrysler Europe. They used a VW engine the first 2 or 3 years.
@@r90fan1 All true (although the VW engine used a Chrysler-designed intake; they also imported engines from Chrysler-owned Simca.). Still, I maintain Chrysler deserves credit for introducing domestic-built , if not fully domestic -designed, front drivers to the U.S. market.
I would agree with you that the other frame 'X' might have been better for Cadillac. My mother's Sunbird J2000 was a cool car and the Cimarron almost looked like it from the side view. On a humorous note, my friends and I enjoyed the Citation at that time because it was one of very few North American cars at that time to which the back seat could open up to its trunk. We used to access our beer from the cooler there when at the drive-in. So when the cops came around looking inside cars for drinkers, we could quickly open the back seat and hide the beers...lol...True story!
I was a warranty administrator back then. I'm still remember the steering rack labor operation for these cars: E9730. I think they paid about 4 hours to replace and our steering guy could do them in about 1.5 hrs with a toe set. Good times!
I had a 77 Nova Concours. It was old when i bought it but i loved that car. The perfect size, great options, a small V8 and it seatrd six. Why couldnt they leave the Nova Phoenix Skylark eha ALONE?
I had a 76 Concours, one of the best cars of many I have owned. I pity the people who traded in perfectly good 68-79 X body cars for the new freak wheel drives.
I'd like to have seen the sketches for the Cadillac X Car. In killing the X Car minivan, they handed its sales to Chrysler. Hey, they couldn't officially do anything to help them, but... It amazes me that they had even driven these Lancias and VWs and not learned anything from those cars. I'm sure that drivers of manual transmission X cars would have appreciated a manual that shifted as well as the VW Dasher/Audi Fox. I used to have such a car. it was a Phoenix coupe that was one of the weirdest cars I've ever owned. The 3/4 scale Bonneville Brougham outside, complete with two tone paint, and the Trans Am interior (full gauges, buckets with console) concealed a lack of power steering and power brakes. It had some sort of suspension package, as there was a rear anti-roll bar, right where you described it being. Sometimes I wish I kept it longer than I did. I actually never had to replace much on that car. The muffler fell off one day, I had to replace the half-shafts, and something called the pulse air unit, which was fortunately located on the front of the engine. The cassette tape deck (a separate unit from the radio, located at the bottom of the dash) died from the sheer volume of music I pumped through it, so I resorted to the only replacement that would fit. It was made by Sparkomatic. Despite that, it wasn't too bad a stereo. In the nearly seventy thousand miles I drove it, it dealt with a lot, like the trip to The Longest Day of Nelson Ledges, taken partly across one of Car and Driver's Ten Best Roads (US 250 across Virginia and West Virginia. A week after that trip, someone pointed out that one of the tires was flat, as if I didn't know. After that much abuse, those Arrivas, good in no weather conditions whatsoever, had finally given up. Thanks for provoking the memories again.
Well, the Citation certainly does look just like that Lancia! I think the Cimarron is good in it's smaller version, I guess the problem was justifying the ridiculous price tag on a "tarted up Cavalier". I only drove a few xcars, and would agree that they did handle pretty well, and were roomy. While I can understand that it would be impossible for engineers to know all the issues that may crop up over time, it is just a shame that GM brought these cars to market knowing there were many cost cutting changes that would lower quality and reliability. The cars would have been impossible to sell with the Vega engines installed for sure.
The X-Cars were GM's first front-wheel-drive, transverse-engine cars, but not the first built in the USA by an American automaker -- that honor goes to the Dodge Omni and Plymouth Horizon, introduced in 1978, although with the caveat that they were co-developed with Chrysler Europe and thus were not 100% American-designed. For the first few years they also used VW and Peugeot engines, rather than Chrysler's own.
Speaking of which, VW also began manufacturing the Rabbit in their Westmoreland, PA plant in 1978; it was obviously a German-designed car, but the U.S.-built ones were called "Malibuized" because they had a softer suspension and color-keyed interior to suit American tastes. And as part of the deal to supply Chrysler with engines, VW got to use Chrysler-made automatic transmissions in their cars.
Yeah, so I am giving GM "first built in the USA by an American automaker" status for those reasons
Huh, what about Eldorado’s and Tornados from the 60’s
@@danfarris135 Those had a longitudinal engine, not transverse.
@@danfarris135 - GM's first front-wheel-drive, transverse-engine cars. Just lift up the hood and look at the engine.
My 1979 Toronado had a longitudinal 350 engine.
First Front wheel car in America was the Cord in the 30s and then the first Mass Produced FWD car was in 1966 The Oldsmobile Toronado.
I had two X-cars as company cars… an ‘81 Olds Omega with the Iron Duke and an ‘84 Buick Skylark with the V-6. I was driving 20k miles per year and both of them held up. Adam is correct. The interiors were comfortable and roomy and neither car stranded me. What I most remember was both of them had pronounced torque steer at full throttle and the 4-cylinder Omega was very crude… noisy with considerable vibration. The paint on both left much to be desired, as well.
I had an '82 Omega. (Also a '78, but totally different platform.)
You are correct about the paint. The EPA had banned the older style of painting the the paint itself because of off gassing hurting the ozone layer. It took every company a while to get the new process right, some (GM and Chrysler) longer than others.
Mine had an issue with dumping transmission fluid at random times. The trunk seals never fully sealed despite replacing them. I joked it was a safety feature. When it rains the spare wheel well fills with water to add rear ballast.
Oddly, I must have gotten one of the few that never had breaking issues. Yes, I could lock the tires and on more than one occasion stopped while pointing 45° off from the direction I'd started, but that wasn't unusual for cars if the era.
But it was a comfortable cruiser. And for $600 in 1988 I couldn't complain about the price.
Yeah, them Iron Duke engines were pretty crude.
My sister had a 1981 base model Camaro with that engine, with automatic and it was awful. When you stepped on the gas, it just made more noise.
I would really like an in-depth video about the FWD A platform, the Chevrolet Celebrity, Pontiac 6000, Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera and Buick Century
Same. Most of the vehicles I've owned were /are A bodies. I absolutely love them cars and would love to see an indepth video on those as well.
The X-cars had such promise but they arguably drove more loyal GM customers into the arms of imports than ever. Case in point was my uncle who was a die hard GM buyer from 1960 until his purchase of a new 1983 Skylark Limited V6. Loaded with every option and a beautiful velour interior…but the honeymoon was very short. The car was plagued with so many drivability woes, most notably a transmission failure at 13k miles. Adding all the recalls, he grew disgusted with the car and dumped it in early 1986 and purchased a new Toyota Camry. And he drove only Toyotas until his passing in 2017.
The X cars were rushed to market for a variety of reasons: GM (and Ford) were pressured to bring a small, fuel efficient car to market by the gov't in response to the 1973-74 oil embargo (it took the feds several years thereafter before being able to give the Big 3 direction regarding fuel economy - which included gov't incentives). In addition, the bean counters were working overtime cutting corners not just on engineering, but quality control. And in typical GM fashion, when they finally have the cars dialed in correctly, they cancel the program. 1984-85 X cars were not too bad for the era. GM did the same with the 1990/91 Reatta, 2000-2002 Eldorado, and 2018/2019 Impala (to name three). Good video!
I'm fully convinced there was never a need to regulate MPGs for American manufacturers, and that with a dysfunctional formula to go by to calculate those MPGs is a major part of what killed the greatness of American automobiles of the 60s.
The oil issues were also in place because of our government.
Foreign competition was so great because our government was so lenient towards imports and lack of demand they do the same for our products.
Government shouldn't be in the car business. Screws it up every time
Keep going: the 1960-63 Corvair, the 1971-76 Vega.
@@HAL-dm1eh How's the weather in Russia today? We know that you are a paid employee of Russia's Internet Research Agency.....
All of that was not necessary, they merely could have put smaller engines in their large cars and continued to engineer them to get better gas mileage, (and outsourced diesels), that would have been cheaper and more effective in the long run than completely engineering a car from the ground up.
Yesz the cars would have been slow, but the 55 mph speed limit did not require a lot of power and it would have just been a reality of understanding that gas was expensive, so drag racing was not necessary as long as we can get to a to b in comfort and reliability and still retaining style as a side benefit with a small V8 or even a mid-size V6 or large four cylinder in a traditionally sized car that was engineered to handle 55mph would have been a much better solution, not only for gas mileage, but for retaining the essential parts of styling and comfort and size that America abandoned when they tried to compete with countries that had been building them for 50 years because of poverty and requirements of size that we just didn't suffer from.
Competing on your competitions home soil is always going to put you at a disadvantage and they really should have focused on more economical engines and perhaps aerodynamics rather than front-wheel drive, downsized nonsense.
Summer, 1981....having had my learner's permit for a few months, my junior high science teacher stopped by my house with a brand new 1981 Chevy Citation 5 door hatch. The teacher had a summer job teaching behind the wheel. The Citation was supplied by a local Chevrolet dealership who loaned the school system new vehicles on a yearly basis. We spent a few days a week for a couple of weeks driving around town and learning the basics. The challenging thing was reversing and finding the rear sightlines....we managed to reverse into a concrete wall a few times but the 5 mph bumpers shrugged it off without issue. On a family vacation, I met someone who was also taking behind the wheel...and her school system was getting the "new K-cars" probably a Dodge Aries.
The car was pretty well equipped...and was a white over cinnabar two tone paint combo with a dove gray velour interior. I remember the aroma of new car smell and mint flavored chewing gum...our teacher chewed gum constantly and had packs of gum stashed in the glove box. Probably to calm down while teaching new drivers in a new car that had to go back to the dealer at the end of the summer. We would go over the features....the teacher said he would tune the radio...he kept it off mostly and adjusted the climate control. We did get to try out the cruise control and the resume feature...which would cause the car to full throttle accelerate when engaged...and the iron duke would thrash in the background getting us up to 55 mph....the legal limit back then.
The last day, he would invite a parent to join us and offer feedback on our driving skills. So my Mom joined us for a session. I had to work on my lane changes but other than that he was very happy with my driving ability. The Citation was a perfect car to learn on...not too big...not too small and not powerful enough to get into serious trouble. I would then start driving my parents cars....a G-Body Cutlass and a PA build VW Rabbit during the height of the Malaise era.
I was expecting a love/marriage story after reading about a young lady you met learning on a K car... what a rip. I mean a real letdown!
@@adamwhite3584 Sorry! We were on a tour bus and conversing for a couple of hours...and we were both really excited about having learner's permits and looking forward to taking behind the wheel....never saw her again after that.
@@adamwhite3584
💔😢
The beginning of the end for USA dominance in the Automotive Industry in America.
I’d say it was the Vega. The lessons learned by GM between it and these x cars made that they was such a disaster inexcusable and proved that GM management was too bureaucratic to compete.
@@gordtulk I'd say it was the Corvair.
Also the end of the us manufacturing dominance of the world car market.
@@lvsqcsl the Corvair was a marvel in many ways but turned out to be an engineering dead end. GM quickly recovered with the Nova and similar vehicles.
@@CAROLDDISCOVER-1983 that had begun in the late sixties - manifold reasons - currency rates, union labour costs and management sloth to name three.
My Dad bought an ‘81 Pontiac Phoenix used in 1981. I think it was 9 months old when we got it. It was a GM employee’s car. It was an ok car. It completely rusted out and had to be repainted. The transmission blew when we were on a trip down south. My Dad won a an arbitration case against GM for the blown transmission. It was the first car that I drove. The brakes were terrible. The left side wheels would lock up before the right side. If you were not careful, you could go into a spin because of the brakes locking up. We kept the car until 1992. I learned a lot about driving from this car.
My aunt won a 1982 Buick Skylark from Publisher's Clearinghouse. I remember it being a very nice looking car and asked her about it years later. She didn't have much good to say about it.
My parents bought a 1980 Pontiac Phoenix LJ hatchback in the spring of 1979. Red on red. Really turned heads as it just came out. We toured the Tarrytown NY assembly plant. Soon after delivery the parking brake broke. They had to replace the entire dashboard with a black one they repainted red. It looked terrible. We had the rear brake problems and steering morning sickness. It was my car through college and I really liked it.
Some of the repair techs in the dealership where I worked would sing:
Mister Goodwrench, reseal my gear
"Cause in the morning it's so hard to steer.
It looked terrible. We had the rear brake problems and steering morning sickness. It was my car through college and I really liked it.
That's pretty funny.
My parents had an '82 Citation 5-door with the V6. It was one of the first two cars I drove after getting my license in the summer of '87. They kept it until the fall of '89. It was actually kind of fun to drive - the V6 had way more oomph than my parents' '83 Sentra, and was a far more reliable vehicle; that Sentra was garbage. While GM studied the Lancia Beta and VW Dasher to learn about FWD compact cars, Volvo used the Citation as a test mule for the Volvo 850's 5 cylinder engine.
Didn't notice you beat me to it about Volvo using the X-Car mules. Given the massive torque from the Volvo I-5 - especially the Turbo I-5, the mules must have been a hoot to drive!
I failed to mention that both my father and I later owned 850s. I had a '93 and my Dad had a '96. I currently drive a C30 with the turbo I5.
That probably be a hoot to drive with manual cogs. The test mule (Volvotation) that is!😂
I was a warranty admiistration in the years when the x bodies were introduced and they actuallly had over 20 recalls before they could be sold in fall 79
Adam, my late father bought a 1980 Chevy Citation brand new. It had a V6, 4-speed. I still have copies of the letters he sent to GM, complaining about the car, and all of its problems. But, eventually it was a good car, as he kept it for 18 years, and 198,000 miles. We took it on several trips, and in August of 1980, my Sister and her first husband took it on their honeymoon to Washington DC. Also, my 4th car was a 1981 Citation 2-door hatchback, with the 2.5 4cyl, 4-speed. It was a pretty good car. I did however have problems with the steering, and it went through at least 3 high pressure power steering lines.
While I agree that the A bodies were essentially spiritual successors to the X body, the late unlamented L-body: Chevrolet Corsica and Beretta deserve some mention in this evolution since they were marketed for almost a decade until return of the reimagined Malibu. A pretty much forgotten car…but might warrant a retrospective review.
Maybe I'd call myself an X car expert... I worked on many and owned a few. In fact, i was driving a $100 rotted out V6 stripper Citation coupe in 1988, repairing a Corvair at the curb in Montréal, when I met a guy who got me started in real estate, and that new career changed my life
I was a model maker \ specialty machinist for decades. Knowing what I know now, I wish I had done more dealings in Real Estate and land.
The 1980 Pontiac Phoenix was the last American car my family bought. Generations of our families have now purchased Hondas and Toyota. I can remember driving the car and it was great on gas, quiet unless under acceleration, and ran well until it didn't. The front seat bottom fell apart and the dealer couldn't get it run after about 30k miles. They just disconnected the pollution controls and plugged the vacuum lines with screws. It would barely idle and wouldn't accelerate and when it did it backfired.
A neighbor went through several x and j cars unable to keep them running and kept trading them in. They then bought VW's.
You need to find better mechanics.
Sounds like the spark plug wires were installed out of order. Don't ask me how I know 😂
My mom had a Phoenix 2.5L and Grandma had a Skylark 2.8 V6, both 1980's. My mom got rid of hers after 4 years but the Skylark stayed with my Grandma for 25 years and really wasn't that bad.
We had a 1981 Oldsmobile Omega 2 door Brougham. It was a good car and I loved it. It was burgundy inside and out.
However my aunt had a Pontiac phoenix and she hated it! lol she was so mad when my uncle came home with it. 😂
I owned a 81 Chevy Citation X-11 back in the mid 80s, it was my first car. My parent's helped me buy it to get to work. I had it for 5-6 yrs before i sold it. Had lots of good times in that car.
I have been a mechanic since the late 70's and a shop owner for the last 11 years. I remember those cars very well. I am a land yacht (pre 1977) person but I own a 1980 Citation 2dr hatch V6 auto with only 54K original miles on it. The 1980 models were the only year with no computer, only electronic ignition. Yes, the X cars were a bit crude but once you got used to them they were very reliable and comfortable. The braking system was a new learning curve from the older cars, the transmissions were known for design flaws and yes the steering rack issues were not only a GM problem.
It's unfortunate how the X cars turned out. They could have been so much more, and done so much better for GM.
I remember how common they were in the early and mid 80's, but they thinned out fast even before 1990. Now, I can't remember the last time I've seen one.
Yeah, they did thin out fast. I live in kind of a rust belt area so loads of interesting cars have been consumed by rust/salt.
Once again, learned a ton about a GM platform that I thought I was thoroughly knowledgeable about. Thanks Adam. Nearly a three year sub of your channel and really like your content (and fabulous car collection).
Yes, would have preferred an X platform Cimarron over the Cavalier J-Car with chrome that our Cadillac District Sales Managers had to force on dealers to get better preferencing on faster moving, more profitable models. But it’s all part of automotive history that you document so well.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thx so much.
We took delivery of our V6 Buick Skylark Limited in December 1979, loaded with options but with a standard trans. As a Ford guy I have to admit the car was pretty darn good. I put close to 200,000 miles on it before passing to my local service station who stuck it into a neighbour's Citation who added another 100,000 miles on the mill. Love your channel Adam, keep up the good work.
I owned a 1980 Buick Skylark Limited Two Door in black that I purchased new. The only problem, the wipers would come on all by themselves while a puff a smoke would actually come out of the wiper stalk! It was excellent in the snow with the skinny tires and front wheel drive at Watertown NY. I traded for a 1981 LeSabre which was a disaster and another story . . .
I always enjoy your videos covering your own vehicles. However, I equally enjoy these videos full of esoteric information we didn't get at the time. Thanks so much!
I remember when the x cars were about to come out, there was a lot of secrecy surrounding them. My dad had been looking at a new Cutlass but wanted to see the new Citation we got to sit in one and even drive it but the dealer did not have the window sticker for the car yet. The day the prices came out my dad drove down to the Chevrolet dealer to take a look and the Citation was over $8000 it was a loaded model with practically every option you could get. Dad was sticker shocked and went right down to the Oldsmobile dealer and bought the Cutlass for $5500 with the trade in of our '72 Impala Sport Sedan. After the recalls on the Citations started dad was so glad he bought the Cutlass we drove it 8 years with very few problems
Fun fact! The Chevrolet Citation and Buick Skylark were also sold in Japan
I would upload pictures but I am sure they would be flagged
The X11 fastback/coupe is one I Still want!! (Just because)
Adam , your knowledge about this subject is astounding. You’ve really caused me to look at the x cars in a different light. I remember these cars well growing up in the 80s. Especially the Citation.
This video was quite good: the information, the education, the facts and the images. I knew there was a connection to the A bodies. The C and H Bodies look like larger A Bodies. You can clearly see it in the styling. The X Bodies spawned so much and created so much for future models. It impacted so much although they did not live on past 1984-1985. They had worked out the issues by then. You can see how the European cars influenced GM. This was a learning time for GM indeed with the X Bodies. You can see how the N Bodies were influenced by the X Cars too. You see it in the Omega and Phoenix and Skylark which became an N Body. Thank you so much Adam.
I enjoy all the new things I have learned from your videos. I paid close attention from 71-88 to GM products. The Eldorado’s of the early 70’s were beautiful but too flashy even in my 17 year old dreams but the Toronado was angular perfection to my eyes. At 67 I have collected all my dream cars with the exception of a gold and black 72 or 73 Toronado but I’m always on the lookout for the right one.
Sad but true. A local Ecology wrecking yard had a mint condition black 1972 Toronado a few years ago, on blocks and sent to the crusher six weeks later. My 1972 is being repainted back into the original Nordic blue in a few months.
@@jeffshadow2407
😠😡 I hate hearing about nice cars being totaled out, by folks who could care less or just don't know any better.. 😔
As always, an exceptional video.
I liked the X cars. Friends had a 4-door Citation that was VERY roomy. Another friend had a loaded '82 Skylark 2-door. Zero problems in 8 years of ownership.
Thanks for this one, Adam.. I drove a lot of X cars when they were new as a Buick-Pontiac salesman.. At first, they looked promising, but driving characteristics left a lot to be desired. Torque steer was especially pronounced, and braking was a fraught experience as well. On the other hand, seats were comfortable, and they were easy to park and maneuver.
I actually got used to and even appreciated torque steer. Gave that "front wheel drive" feeling. There was a sense of controlling power. Right at your fingertips.
I had a 1982 Pontiac Phoenix hatchback that I bought used in 1984. I loved that little car. It handled beautifully, had plenty of pep (2.5l 4cyc). The transmission seemed to shift more than other automatics I have driven but it never had any problems. The only thing I remember that was annoying was the driver's window crank would always pop off. I replaced it several times, but could never solve the problem. After reading all the comments here, I guess I got a rare good one, but after all these years I still have fond memories of that car.
Oh the days of drooping headliners and peeling chrome on plastic parts cause me stitches
Rode as a backseat passenger in my brother’s Pontiac Phoenix… full day across very hot Midwest landscape. Remember it as being quite comfortable with four adults and some luggage.
A great overview, Adam. I learned a thing or two about these cars.
I couldn't comment yesterday due to a 24 hr ban. Please never stop making videos.
That white 2-door Omega is a pretty good-looking car
During high school, one of my friends had a 2 door Buick Skylark. It had the anemic 2.5 Iron Duke so no speed records were set! It was dark blue with blue interior. It was a very comfortable car to ride in.
I always liked that sedan/hatchback design the X platform had, it's a good shape that I wish automakers used more.
Back in the day the first v6 cars off the assembly line had rack and pinion issues, would blow the seals. There were no racks available for warranty replacement so we would bench rebuild them and put them back in. After a while we had a couple of spares so were could quick turn two cars a day then last thing before going home rebuild another two racks for the next day. Our rebuilds never came back probably because we sourced the seals from an out side company rather than using the weak GM ones.
I have been the proud owner of an Ods Omega V6, drove it about 120.k km over a 10 years period without any major complaint.
The comfort was great compared to European cars of the time, performance was marginal for a 2.8 engine as well as the range probably due to a too small fuel tank in relation to the fuel consumption which was about 11 l/100 km. I agree that changing the sparks plugs of the rear row of cylinders was a nightmare for the mechanic. Also, the car was the victim of rust on the lower part of the body due to salty winter roads in Northern Europe (I imagine that a similar situation exists in the Northern part of the US and in Canada).
When my Omega did not look very nice, I finaly exchanged it for a Series 5 BMW with a 2 liters 6 cylinders that gave the same performance for a smaller fuel consumption.
The wheel covers on the Olds X-car was sooo stereotypical Oldsmobile and I love it…..now. Back in the day, I disliked Olds styling but I’ve come to fully appreciate it now. I’m so intrigued now as to how the different divisions imparted their own unique personalities in the same platform; a feast for auto stylists today when reviewing the history of auto styling.
I was super excited about the X-11 Citation in 1980. I was budget constrained, so I bought a used car instead. In 1985 I did buy a new car, an Olds Cutlass Ciera with the 3.8 V6. My mom had bought a Cutlass Ciera with the Iron Duke 2.5, I was impressed with the power of the 3.8.
I bought a 100,000 mile 1980 X-11 in 1987 for $600, and that was about all it was worth. I could make a long list of everything that broke/fell off. My favorite was when the four speed shifter bracket's spot welds failed and the shifter lever came off it's mount LOL.
I had an 81 X-11 that was the best Performance version of the vehicle, it was Jon Moss's first project, it had a higher HP engine with a working cowl induction hood, the sub frames had a welded reinforcement to the cowl, look it up this was a unique vehicle and certainly the most desirable X body. It was a good match against the VW GTI that was the darling of that time. Unfortunately a drunk read ended mine and totalled it
I have always loved all cars. Even the most mundane and simple boxes from decades past.
My first car was an 82 Pontiac Phoenix. It rotted from the bottom up in less than 9 years. But it was actually very easy to drive and comfortable for 4 adults.
9 years at that time before rust through was a good run then, whether American or Japanese.
My uncle had a 1980 Buick Skylark with the 2.8L V6. I drove it and it was quick for its day.
I would like to hear that V5 Diesel engine run 😊
I was in South Korea in 1980, and our old taxi's on base were mid-70's Novas when I got there. They started the transition into the Buick Skylark X-variant. I was pleased with how much more comfortable it was compared to the Nova, but amazed how they could easily go up a hill on snow and ice from a standing start, when it was very difficult getting the Nova up that same hill. That Skylark proved to me that FWD was a good choice if you are driving a front engine vehicle.
My Dad worked for GM after WWII and worked his way up the chain until retirement in 1989. At some point in time he was able to buy several new cars each year at a discount. He bought one truck and one family car each year. We kids got in on the deal too. I owned many GM cars over the years and had almost zero problems. I owned four of the X cars and only had one instance where the electric fan died. Of course, we only kept each car for a year or so and never experienced any of the high-mileage issues. I still buy new GM cars to this day when the ones I want are available. I did settle for a KIA this year as I could not get any GM dealers here in AZ to get a new compact SUV.
I loved all my GM cars (other than some used imports, I have only had GMs, mostly used. They were always reliable and easy to repair)
Was in highschool in those days neighbor across the street purchased first year Omega V-6 in the first year it was towed because it would crank over but not start, Liked the looks of the Citation especially the X-11 .
Some real good info there! My first driver was an 81 citation 4 door hatch, 2.5/4 speed.
Something a lot of people don’t know and argue, while the automatic was a straight 3 speed, the manual trans, was a 3 speed plus overdrive, although it was just marketed as a 4 speed.
I really hope you can find and share any sketches of those proposed GM and Ford minivans, Adam!
Good report! I was issued a Citation 4 door hatchback company car in 1980. My POV was a 1974 Volvo 145. The Citation drove great, was quiet, had enormous passenger space and a rear space into which I carried several hundred pounds of T 8 CCR, safety & risk management materials. This was it's weakness: the rear bumper dropped by a few inches. Recall no loss of handling to and from San Diego to El Centro, CA.
The 1980 cars had a normal bench seat. The 81s had the tray in the middle because the Feds required either a seatbelt for the center seating position OR make it impossible to sit in the middle.
Great video Adam, as always. Would love to see a very detailed A-Body video if you're able to do one. Would be an awesome addition to the channel. Thanks :)
1st car was a 1980 Citation x11! 4 cyl, 4 spd, hatchback with a factory roof rack, looked like a porcupine, lol. Loved that car.
Neat video, these cars came to life as I got my drivers license. As a muscle car guy I hated them of course but I will admit the X bodies were very practical cars and the interiors were very luxurious feeling relative to the cars they replaced.
The rear brakes were prone to locking the rear wheels, suspension would squat, lifting the wheels off of the ground😮
Reverse donuts were awesome...until the engine overheats😂
Love the pic of the cream Oldsmobile in front of that stunning house in Palm Springs CA.
Thanks for a great review of the X-body cars. I had a new 1980 Citation 4-cylinder automatic, and must’ve experienced at least half of the teething problems you described: carburetor problems; door hinge / door sagging; power steering intermittently dropping out during turns, or squealing / shreaking for its life. The worst problem was 4 heater core failures in the first 18 months, with antifreeze coolant dripping into the front passenger-side footwell. I was on a first name basis with the cashier at the dealership. Not surprisingly , she told me I needed to get rid of that car. Despite all of these problems, it was still an OK car, and only broke down on me once in the seven years I had it. It was, however, the last GM car that I will ever own.
It was 1984, I was in 4th grade, and my dad traded off my mom's Dodge Omni 024 for a green '81 Citation 2.8L V6 hatchback auto. I think that was the only time my dad broke my mom's heart. When she got home from work, dad had already brought the Citation home--she was crushed. I really try to find something good about it...but honestly, the Citation encapsulates everything that went wrong for the Big 3 Domestics in the 80's. It was butt-ass ugly (strictly in my opinion), plus keep in mind...that was right when I think Ford came out with the Ford Tempo/Mercury Topaz line...which was a fresh looking (again, in my opinion) design. I love these backstory features, Adam...thanks again!
Lol! Traded a pos for another pos! My parents bought a 1985 dodge omni brand new and had to take it in for warranty work SEVERAL times for various things breaking on it. They got rid of it less than a year after buying it and said it was even worse than the AMC Pacer they owned before that😂 a true lemon!
Yeah the Omni and citation are ugly cars. The tempo and topaz, look better but also are garbage too
Great review and show keep up the great work could do a show on the A body?
another great video from Rare Classic Cars.
I bought a new Citation V-6 in July 1980. We had almost no trouble with it in 85,000 miles! I had a relative who had a Pontiac version and his was in the shop about 3 months of the first year. In those days, no dealers in our area provided loaner cars. But it suffered many problems common to cars of that era; emergency handling was a joke and the rear suspension was solid axle and would hop around like crazy on a rough road. The braking was poor and the interior was all hard plastic.
Thank you as always superb videos
16:03 Good Job Adam... Oldsmobile diesel did play such an important role in the late 70's to mid 80's in automotive history....I wish these X-cars did get the Olds diesel...
The 82+ A-bodies were more than just a spiritual successor to the X-bodies, they shared many of the same floorpan amd orher stampings as well, and many underhood/suspension parts too. The A cars are really what the X cars should have been from the get-go. And it always makes me wonder how different the automotive landscape would have been had GM worked through the bugs and refined the designs and engineering more thoroughly before releasing them. Aftetall, the A cars were sales leaders, and produced up until 1996 for the Ciera/Century versions.
Agreed. It is very sad that this went so wrong. This, to me, was the beginning of the end for old school GM.
You said that you wanted to hear that engine run about the v5 diesel. I am most certain that it would shake, smoke, and rattle like a box of rocks not unlike many other diesels. I do enjoy your presentations, keep up the good work.
I liked the Citation and the Phoenix the best. They were good looking cars and the 2.8L V6 wasnt a bad engine. For a first attempt, these cars were not the worst out there. I still wish you could buy a car with the 2.8L V6 as it had some jump to it.
Plate C
The 2.8 became the 3.1, then there was a dual overhead cam 3.4, then a regular 3.5 on the same design. The 3.5 had 200 hp and my friend had a 2005 Malibu with it. It was quick!
Its last iteration is the 3900. We have one in a 2006 Impala LTZ. 240hp. It goes quite well for a car its size and still only having a 4 speed auto trans.@@jamesengland7461
Great videos! I enjoy your knowledge and your videos a lot. Off subject and for like the past week now every single day UA-cam is unsubscribing me from your channel. I subscribe again every time and it seems like every day unsubscribed again and it’s like that for a few other channels that I watch. This is the seventh time I had to resubscribe in the past couple of weeks.
Mom only bought 1 NEW car in her life - 1980 Citation. Recalled like 9 times in the first 1 1/2 years.
We posted each one on the refrigerator door. Mom missed a lot of work because of that car.
- - A real shame, as it was a good looking car, and nice [ for what it was] interior [ except for the sideways mounted radio. It drove nice, and was comfortable. Also great interior size.
IF ONLY…..
🚗🙂
When the very first 1980 Citations were made available it was discovered the owners' manuals had been printed in a size that wouldn't fit into the glove compartment. If that's not a bad sign, I don't know what is.
I remember when I had the '79 Impala and my current 1981 Bonneville I had to remember the windows cranked the opposite way from each other.
Interesting that they used Dasher's for comparison cars, since these had LONGITUDINALLY mounted FWD drive trains....
If GM had beat Chrysler to the minivan,, Chrysler might not exist today. I know they did good with the K car platform. But without the minivan being a Chrysler exclusive. They probably wouldn't have made it through the 80's. That's just my opinion. I'd love to hear what others think about this
I think you're right, and while the Chevy Astro was very dependable, it and the Ford Aerostar were too trucklike and a pain in the butt to climb in and out of, with worse gas mileage. Also even harder to work on than any fwd car.
@@jamesengland7461
My '91 Aerostat still gives me nightmares.
The original K cars saved Chrysler, the minivans took them to prosperity
Chrysler was flush with cash through the eighties and part of the nineties which is why they got the Germans attention.
@@sutherlandA1. Exactly couldn’t have said it better
I had a 1980 Citation 2-door hatch with the Iron Duke 4 and 4 speed transmission. I drove it for nearly 8 years, and the biggest problem I ever had was with the cv-joint boots - they would not last. When the AC died in 1989, I decided to retire it forever and get something else.
Once owned an 86 cavalier wagon, great car and aside from regular upkeep it never had any problems....Love the .8 engine 😊
Yes, I had the Pontiac Phoenix version and I remember back then. I took it in before I knew about the recall and they had to replace the whole breaking system on all four corners plus ended up replacing the struts in the front and it never cost me a nickel but boy it must have really cost them
Those cars had unequal-length half-shafts driving the front wheels which created a fair amount of torque-steer. You could accelerate and you had to counter-steer just to hold these things in the road; and the Celebrity was no different. GM had lent Motortrend Magazine models that specifically had the torque-steer engineered out when they awarded it "Car of the Year" in 1980. IIRC the Citation was the only model produced in 1985 and by that time it was renamed the "Citation II." Officials with the NHTSA said "This thing needs a CITATION." GREAT VIDEO!
The Morris Mini Minor a k a " Mini" had been using that transverse engine layout since the mid 1950s.
Always wanted a Mini Cooper S "A real one that is" Maybe a 66....
59
First American attempt
Alec Issigonis was a genius. The path to the modern front-drive layout took several steps beyond that. Fiat brought the end-on gearbox a few years later (Autobianchi Primula), then MacPherson struts (Fiat 127/128). Then the layout took off after that. The X-cars were the first North-American-designed model to use it. Chrysler Horizon was a European design which was a development from an earlier Simca design. Every innovation is built on the shoulders of what came before...
Great car but remember the gearbox was built into the bottom of the engine which made them not very scalable if you wanted bigger engines. You would have to redesign the gearbox as well. Fiat was the first to do a tranverse engine with the gearbox on end of the engine
Great video! It's refreshing to see a history of these cars that honestly appraises their qualities and defects. I've had quite a few A and X bodies and they'll always be my favorite cars, probably because my first car was an 86 Eurosport coupe. My current fleet is heavily A/X centric LOL 😂
I don't care what people think. I like the looks of these cars. I would happily drive one today. I've never been in an X-Body car. But I've driven a few A-Body cars and I really liked them. Would definitely drive one today
Grandparents bought a new 1980 citation, beige two tone with 2.8 auto. I enjoyed riding in and eventually driving that car.
I had a 1980 Citation 2 door hatchback, v6 auto, I bought it from a little old lady in about 1990. It was a pleasant, useful car that I did not have much trouble with.
I really enjoyed this video. Is that two-tone Citation yours? If so, can you please feature it? You forgot the quirky 60k mile service tab that pops up, too!
I will never forget seeing a Citation doing a 180 coming to a stoplight, the driver was just bewildered. No one was injured and he drove away after an awkward reverse 180.
I think the reverse-crank windows were common on a lot of cars in the eighties. I seem to remember our Renault Alliance having that quirk, as well as many other cars I rode in back then.
It might have been a European or Japanese norm. Their door keys turn the opposite way too
I know the B-body (Impala/Caprice, 88, LeSable, Bonneville/Parisienne) also had that quirk.
I would love to see some of the design sketches for the minivan and Cimarron variants of the X-platform!
I remember the ads when these came out. They had a Citation sawn in half with the front half driving (supported by a dolly - maybe it was better with no rear brakes!). They (ironically) also bragged that it was the most tested new model ever released - driven over 1 million miles. PS I think you forgot to mention the cracking V6 engine blocks.
I had a couple Lancia Betas, talk about an underrated car, I absolutely loved them
My inlaws preordered a 1980 Citation delivery was delayed for months. It was as i recall a basic model with 4 cylinder and manual trans they drove it 140,000 miles with only minor issues along the way.
Ah, the Chevette Deluxe
Thanks for showing some love to the much-maligned X-cars, but shouldn’t Chrysler get recognition as the first domestic auto company to produce a transverse engine FWD car with the 1978 introduction of the Omni/Horizon? It may have been based on the European Chrysler Horizon introduced that same year but the US L-body was heavily re-engineered for the US market. Plus by 1980 MoPar had two L-body variants on the market in the form of the new -for-1979 Dodge Charger and the Plymouth Omni 024.
The X cars were the first fully designed and built in the US. Omnis were designed with the help of Chrysler Europe. They used a VW engine the first 2 or 3 years.
@@r90fan1and a lot of Simca technology too. Chrysler owned Simca back in the day
@@r90fan1 All true (although the VW engine used a Chrysler-designed intake; they also imported engines from Chrysler-owned Simca.). Still, I maintain Chrysler deserves credit for introducing domestic-built , if not fully domestic -designed, front drivers to the U.S. market.
I didn't realize they were first! Maybe Adam forgot.
The Omni/Horizon came out in 1978.
The moment you mentioned Bob Eaton's name, I immediately groaned.
I would agree with you that the other frame 'X' might have been better for Cadillac. My mother's Sunbird J2000 was a cool car and the Cimarron almost looked like it from the side view. On a humorous note, my friends and I enjoyed the Citation at that time because it was one of very few North American cars at that time to which the back seat could open up to its trunk. We used to access our beer from the cooler there when at the drive-in. So when the cops came around looking inside cars for drinkers, we could quickly open the back seat and hide the beers...lol...True story!
I was a warranty administrator back then. I'm still remember the steering rack labor operation for these cars: E9730. I think they paid about 4 hours to replace and our steering guy could do them in about 1.5 hrs with a toe set. Good times!
Nice
I had a 77 Nova Concours. It was old when i bought it but i loved that car. The perfect size, great options, a small V8 and it seatrd six. Why couldnt they leave the Nova Phoenix Skylark eha ALONE?
I had a 76 Concours, one of the best cars of many I have owned. I pity the people who traded in perfectly good 68-79 X body cars for the new freak wheel drives.
I'd like to have seen the sketches for the Cadillac X Car.
In killing the X Car minivan, they handed its sales to Chrysler. Hey, they couldn't officially do anything to help them, but...
It amazes me that they had even driven these Lancias and VWs and not learned anything from those cars. I'm sure that drivers of manual transmission X cars would have appreciated a manual that shifted as well as the VW Dasher/Audi Fox. I used to have such a car. it was a Phoenix coupe that was one of the weirdest cars I've ever owned. The 3/4 scale Bonneville Brougham outside, complete with two tone paint, and the Trans Am interior (full gauges, buckets with console) concealed a lack of power steering and power brakes. It had some sort of suspension package, as there was a rear anti-roll bar, right where you described it being. Sometimes I wish I kept it longer than I did.
I actually never had to replace much on that car. The muffler fell off one day, I had to replace the half-shafts, and something called the pulse air unit, which was fortunately located on the front of the engine. The cassette tape deck (a separate unit from the radio, located at the bottom of the dash) died from the sheer volume of music I pumped through it, so I resorted to the only replacement that would fit. It was made by Sparkomatic. Despite that, it wasn't too bad a stereo. In the nearly seventy thousand miles I drove it, it dealt with a lot, like the trip to The Longest Day of Nelson Ledges, taken partly across one of Car and Driver's Ten Best Roads (US 250 across Virginia and West Virginia. A week after that trip, someone pointed out that one of the tires was flat, as if I didn't know. After that much abuse, those Arrivas, good in no weather conditions whatsoever, had finally given up.
Thanks for provoking the memories again.
Well, the Citation certainly does look just like that Lancia! I think the Cimarron is good in it's smaller version, I guess the problem was justifying the ridiculous price tag on a "tarted up Cavalier". I only drove a few xcars, and would agree that they did handle pretty well, and were roomy. While I can understand that it would be impossible for engineers to know all the issues that may crop up over time, it is just a shame that GM brought these cars to market knowing there were many cost cutting changes that would lower quality and reliability. The cars would have been impossible to sell with the Vega engines installed for sure.