Elden Ring has become one of my most played games ever, with the smallest amount of actual gameplay time, simply from the time it can take to set up just one build legitamately.
Yeah I gave up on doing that a bit ago. I have a level 200 at NG+10 or so that I just have a crap tone of larval tears on, if I run out I just speed run the game again and get more larval tears to respec
The most I have done is teleport myself to the dlc from the beginning Give myself all maps sacred tears whetblades base game talismans and golden seeds before entering dlc Otherwise I make my own build from the very beginning of the game I also don't enter ng+ So basically I do a lot of starting a new save and running around for 2 hours to start whatever playthrough I'm aiming towards I have 1400 hours in elden ring I see nothing wrong in cheating in items if you want Do whatever But I have nothing wrong with just playing the game for everything even after 1400 hours of this Video games are fun I like starting the save a lot cheating everything in isn't as fun for me because to me it's cheating me out of the experience of playing the beginning of the game I want to struggle until I get my build and then use my knowledge about the bosses to beat the shit out of everything until I either reach a challenge my build doesn't steamroll where I can then learn the fight better until I am able to complete the fight or just go until I have completed the game again
Cheating in order to create builds or spawn in items that can realistically be gained through a normal playthrough(s) is perfectly fine, as it's mainly only used as a massive time-saver. The Item Economy in Elden Ring is honestly terrible, even worse than previous FromSoft games what with the crafting system and how many items that are necessary for invasions are incredibly rare drops. Cheating in items is borderline necessary until FromSoft fixes the game's Item Economy, either by going back to a system where you can just purchase all the items you need in shops, or by massively upping the drop rates for rare items that can only be gained via farming (or both).
In ds3 it was possible to buy almost every pvp related consumable (maybe even all of them), in ER there's literally consumables you can only get more of in NG+
Edit 2: Farming items in this game is a pain in the neck as well as the original comment author pointed out already. Edit: obviously we do not want to use all that shit on low levels, before somebody accuses me of that This is probably the only correct take on this. Nobody has the time to farm Starlight Shards and Meat Dumplings on NG cycles. Time saving is fine, anything else is not.
Cheating to make a build: *OK* (spawning items instead of mindlessly grinding for hours) Cheating to counter cheaters: *OK* (for instance, insta-deathblighting someone with infinite HP) Cheating to grief PvErs/invaders: *NOT OK*
@qasfgdsdrgyrfddfgddd honestly, f that. Grinding ingredients so you can use consumables is bad design. They should all be purchasable by end game. Items should be there to be used, as most legit players won't bother with the constant grinding to use them
@Helleuphoria I think they’re distinguishing between crafting materials and weapons / armor. I don’t have any issue whatsoever with duping crafting mats but you gotta admit it’s a bit scummy to use cheat engine to give your RL20 invader the Sacred Relic Sword without even stepping out of Limgrave.
@nickoliekeyov746 yeah I was only talking throwables n such really. Weapons and talismans should be done legitimately unless you're going straight to 125/150/200 etc, when it comes to pvp
I appreciate the nuance and intricacy with which you approach this topic. Too often is it reduced to an indefinable binary of 'cheating bad' or 'duping good actually', without any examination of the logic being used. I also like the fact that you explore the corner cases and unfortunate implications of more absolutist attitudes that aren't often acknowledged. I also appreciate the refocus from 'is this right?' to 'is this healthy for the game's enjoyability?', as it is a far more discrete question that is far easier to answer, and it draws attention to where the root causes of problems actually are. The fact that so many consider using third-party software or manipulating the files directly preferable to the in-game avenues of acquisition for many items is a condemnation of those avenues, and a pretty blatant sign that the item economy is in dire need of review. It is simply not an attitude that would be present in such numbers within a healthy item economy.
I just don’t understand why their isn’t a bell bearing to purchase literally every single item that people dupe all the time. Like golem arrows should be sold, greases should be sold, exhaled flesh should be sold, turtle neck should be sold, etc….. In ds3 basically all the essential pvp tools could be bought for souls, I don’t understand why they couldn’t have allowed players to just buy the stuff. I have no problem farming runes, but farming items is such a pain.
Chainsaw glitching PvEers was always ok, hell I’d argue that not doing it was unacceptable, you were morally obligated to chainsaw glitch PvEers. The only reason it is gone is because all the PvEers sent Micheal Zaki their feet pics and their prayers were answered whilst we were punished for doing the right thing. All jokes aside, cheating to make a build is fine, ER makes getting everything set up tedious when you just want to PvP, same with using glitches to take out save edited characters and other exploiters, I’d go as far to say it’s justified to cheat against shitters but that’s probably just because I’m petty lol.
I draw the line at using cheats to grief pvers or invaders with cheated stats or being invincible, making builds faster and having access to alot of items is fine cus either way people will complain if you have 999 doohicky stuff farmed or not
I use cheat engine to prep new characters for PvP. There's no way I'm spending hundreds of more hours in a game I've already got hundreds of hours in just to get some fucking arteria leaves. I've already played the single player experience more times than I can remember, the game doesnt respect my time anymore
@@mrbenman97 do you ever feel like you are cheesing other players by doing so? Like if you give yourself golem arrows which are extremely rare and just blast people with them constantly. If they don’t also have access to that stuff so you ever feel guilty?
@@DreyfusLagoon Eh, not really. In my experience the extra items don't give a significant enough bonus to really change the power balance in invasions. If I'm in a 1v3 against people standing around waiting for me to invade, having some golem arrows (just as an example) isnt going to make it much easier.
I like cheating 999 runes in and drop some for wholesome hosts and phantoms i invade. Polite players who bow or wave to their invaders deserve the world.
Honestly i wish the arena had a no consumable rule, im exhaisted by everyone throwing 200 pots, knives, and using rot, magic or lightning drawstrings. ... its annoying as hell My characters are legit and someone throwing rare pots and drawstrings is annoying.
I'm right there with you gamer! Would be awesome if at least after completing the game all crafting materials and purchasable items were just available at Round Table. I would even love to see the ability to buy the weapons that are normally rare drops from enemies. Would be an excellent feature for new game plus. Cheers! 🍻
I think you can still do save states; I don't know how that works, but I know some UA-camrs who play on PlayStation and reuse the same save for invasions without running out of perfumes and larval tears
People hate when I gripe about this but there is absolutely a huge advantage for players who dupe compared to those who don't. I don't use consumables as willy nilly because of playing fair, not only do you have less to use but it also affects your psyche where you are in consumable preservation mode
Turn off auto update on ps save file. Upload your save once someone has dropped you what you need. When you run out of an item download the save. You can do this to copy items too, to get the materials you need
As a SL1-5 twink invader, i usually place the line at no exploits and no mule/duping. Everything else is fair game. I've seen too many shameless overleveled phantoms or ganks at the "first step" bonfire that i didn't mind using the thunderbolt AoW, volcano pots or a health regen loadout back at them. There is an arm race going on between invaders and ganks and the only losers are the ones from both sides who will try to be legit and "non-sweaty". Me personally, i checked out of Elden Ring and found it more relaxing on DS1 and 2. I just hope FROM makes a solo game next time, the way they handled ER's multiplayer was awful.
Thanks for the video bro, after a long hard deep introspection i realized its very bad to cheat in elden ring. Never will I ever undermine the sanctity of ER multiplayer I cheated on my wife instead
I made honest builds for the first few hundred hours, but when every mage is cracking multiple stars, everyone has a million boluses, golem arrows ect, I just can’t anymore. They all deserve it. Chain them together, send them to the volcano with or without cheats
cannot fathom invaders having golem arrows being seen as more dishonest then 3 man teams camping first step at sl125 lmao ppl are wild edit: also yeah, the trading being allowed really hurts the duping/spawn in argument imo
After i beat ds3 a couple times i usually had a mod that increases soul and drop rate and cheat engine for items bosses or teleportation etc on later playthrus bc i just dont wanna waste time, this sorta thing should be fine as it doesnt harm anyone. Esp as i age and my time and tolerance for grinding shrinks, stuff like this is a must
Yes, it is totally ok, actually. Me and my level 802 buddies always make sure to stock up on all consumables in the game before we initiate our cooperation against invaders at level 21.
I just got a 180 days ban after the last update, the only thing I ever did was spawning in a few souls to quickly level a character for pvp a few months ago and nothing happened back then. I think is outrageous that FS will outright block my online for something so trivial without even giving a warning first!
Megamule helped keep Dark Souls 1 PvP alive for years and years. I never would have hung around in that game for so long if I'd had to grind out every single build from scratch.
I love the introspection and intricacy here. It has never been as simple as "cheating bad, but duping good". There are other angles and corner cases. Ill always consider duping cheating because you have to bypass normal gameplay to do it. Though it's ramifications are where the real comversations lie.
Cheating to get items to make a build is totally fine, some items are just way too tedious to get normally (golem arrows), should be buyable infinitely but aren't (rot boluses) or are available way too late in the game if you wanted to make a build with them (Euporia). Frankly it's almost necessary to dupe ancient dragon smithing stones because the game just doesn't give you enough of them.
Elden Ring yet again tries to make a base pvp experience but forgets the basic qol mechanics to make it remotely enjoyable. From no rewards in pvp to abusable weapons and items. If only we had a merchant that traded rune arcs for items like starlight shards. Have you also noticed that invaders lose their runes on death but coopers don't? You can't be more obvious about punishing specific playstyles. 🙄 but yeah, 10 out of 10 game, no?
Can I just say locking the DLC behind Mohg and Radhan is bad design when I just want the Milady or repeating crossbow on my low level builds? You don’t even have to fight a single mob to get either of them once you set foot in SOTE, but for some reason, you’re not allowed to pick them up when you start the game like everything else before mountaintops.
Beyond the obvious story implications of those bosses in the DLC, I imagine at least part of their decision was to try and gate it from a progression stance. Sort of a "If you can't beat those bosses, you can't handle the DLC" mentality, though I can't be sure. I managed to get past Mohg and Radahn on my level 10 +3/+1 but it was entirely through cheese. Bleed, Rot, & Poison and +10 Spirit Ashes can do a surprising amount for any build. Also, if you're having a lot of trouble and don't wanna mess with your build, getting an overleveled friend who can use something like Mohgwyn's Sacred Spear's Bloodboon Ritual can absolutely melt him with the right timing. I'd also highly recommend things like the Uplifting Aromatic. Can make a big difference when you'd otherwise get 1-shot. Otherwise, yeah, it's sort of lame to have to go through so much of the game just for the DLC items when new builds already have so many chores. But that's Elden Ring for ya.
Aside from your first point about the story, the DLC has its own unintuitive leveling system, with bountiful upgrade materials. I made it in on my RL60 and it was just as hard as when I walked in the first time the night it dropped on my RL138. My biggest issue with beating mohg is keeping my upgrades low. Even with black knife spam it just doesn’t do enough damage to him with the Nihil. The best summon for the fight is easily +10 dungeater but I’d need to go get the cerulean hidden tear to be able to summon him with 10 mind, which also means I’d have to summon before Nihil to use the purifying tear. It’s just lame that the DLC weapons have such low stat requirements. It also means that anybody seen using them at low levels is always seen as suspicious. I also don’t have any friends that play ER to summon. Uplifting Aromatic sounds great but is limited by crafting materials and FP. I’m also not sure how much it would help me because I have most of mohg’s moveset down. I always end up dying to the bloodflame I fail to carian retaliate and not his actual spear attacks. I appreciate the suggestions Jon, but by the time I beat him and get my build together I’ll already be planning another one.
@@TheAzul_Indigo Yeah, I don't mean to downplay any part of the struggle. It's a genuinely tough and annoying situation to deal with. Saint_Riot did a video where he took him on with a base character just by looping Mohg's moveset with a bit of baiting. He made it seem quite easy but in reality I'm sure it's a lot harder to consistently get right if you don't have adequate practice. And the Scadutree leveling system in the DLC does genuinely feel like it makes standard character levels much less relevant. It's weird how viable playing even with lower leveled weapons can be against some of the early DLC bosses. Hardest thing I ran into was having to 1v1 Rakshasa because they're immune to all status (I think) and spirit ashes aren't allowed. I suspect they may have wanted to make it harder to twink without outright forbidding it. At least, it feels that way.
@@emotionaljonxvx Sane Ryan’s scrub dojo is the best value-per-minute video on his channel. I stayed up all weekend fighting mohg, rewatch, fight mohg again, rewatch, etc. It’s always stay close, and roll right. The only way you mess up is if he does the downwards spray, but it’s got a delay, and if you miss your carian retaliation, then you’ve got to back up or take heavy DOT. Suddenly, BAM! he’s throwing blood EVERYWHERE! Re: Rakshasa, yea I wouldn’t even try the gaol bosses. I hope that when they make their next game they make the level cap 80 or something like that. Have us *all* “git gud” and make sacrifices for our build. Not just the twinks! 😭
Cheating for the sake of making builds, especially in a specific level bracket is a GOD SEND. Especially if you're like me and like to make a lot of different builds. Just recently i made a Man Eater Mildred kosplay in Bloodborne, but realized i needed to get to a late game area to buy poison knives. Now to do the same thing in a massive game like Elden Ring sounds obnoxious, and I totally respect those who admit they just don't have the time or patience to set up a build "legitimately" everytime they want to experiment Obviously cheating to grief is unacceptable.
As someone who mainly PvP in arena, there is 0 things wrong with giving yourself items to save time. I have 1000+ hours in most souls games, but 0 of that is from farming. I’m a grown ass man I don’t have time to deal with abysmal drops, I just want to game. My rule for this is if I beat game then I can give myself w/e, so I can PvP comfortably.
Cheating is fine as long as you are not violating the limits of your own build, such as increasing your health above qhat your vigor and items give, infinite stamina, infinite estus, etc etc
Considering I don't have much interest in PvP, my aim in duping and other such things would be to try new builds, save the time of grinding, or not deal with overly obtuse sidequests.
Honestly I wouldn’t blame someone for using cheats to get certain items, since no one wants to grind or do another new playthrough to get a bit of rope for their grease.🐱
My personal belief has always been if you’re altering the game with any code or data not designed or written by the official devteam, it’s cheating. Glitches, exploits, and skips are completely valid. HOWEVER, I believe there’s absolutely nothing wrong with playing the game how you like if you’re enjoying a solo experience or experimenting. So long as you aren’t actively compromising the enjoyment or value of another player’s experience in the process it’s not a bad deed. Video games are fun first, always. And for some people modding and hacks are how they have their own fun. Just respect your fellow gamers along the way.
I spawn in all my crafting materials and starlight shards. Ill get all my equipment by playing through the game. Having to farm is too disrespectful of my time.
It's OK to play a game however you want. You don't need some UA-camr to tell you whether or not it's OK. Trainers can't be used while the game is connected to the internet, so it doesn't affect PvP. No problem here.
Players who are bad at the game think it's cheating. Players who are good at the game don't think it's cheating. Go figure. As an invader, I definitely use starlight shards, etc. because of the poorly designed consumable mechanics and invader disadvantages. Most invasions are 3v1, which means if every player involved allocoted their flask to only healing, for example, that would be 42 healing flasks vs. my 7 while dealing with 3 people at the same time... The players who say its cheating are the same players who quit out of their game when the invader has killed both of their summons. If you dont strive to get better at the game, why are you complaining about item duping in the first place? If the host and his summons had starlight shards, marikas blessings, etc, im not gonna complain, im gonna continue on and try to win as best I can. Complaining and quitting doesn't make you a better player. People that complain about item duping saying its a disadvantage for the people who dont item dupe, well HELLO! Invaders are already at a huge disadvantage the moment they step into an invasion. Pvers like to ignore this simply because their mindset is; if it doesn't inconvenience ME than its fair. Start invading, and you'll quickly understand why our duping is justified.
I use cheats offline only, to fast track builds and refight bosses, that's it. I think if you've played and beaten a game multiple times, I think cheating in items and such to skip the grind is okay, as long as you're not ruining the experience online (obviously).
I'll always advocate for item duplication via CE due to the game's insanely bad loot economy. There's no way to realistically grind out the consumables (I tried).
If you're playing offline and never pvp, then cheat all the F you want, alter stats, drop loot, use mods, whatever. It's only your own experience you're screwing with . If you're online and playing PVP? No, don't do anything outside of the game. If that means you have to spend hours farming for rare items to make things that help you in PVP then that's the game.
my line was simple before eldenring but right now its a mess... i usually farm everything possible on the character and then trade and dupe all the consumables. all the weapons need to be accessed in the world to play them and if i want to dual wield or have multiple copies then i have to get them on another character if i want to use them. all the talismans and cookbooks need to be accessed in the world aswell. so ie i duplicate the consumables and trade over the weapons for multiples. and even with that i have spent so much time farming in this game it's actually insane... more than 500h for farming and buildmaking and thats the lowest estemate i could come up with...😢 guys.... if you want to pvp with a set build and dont have 100h just for setting up 2 characters then cheat... i dunno what else to say sorry from😮💨
I play seamless coop with my fiance. I used cheat engine to set up our builds from the beginning and then we play through the game. I also don’t like dealing with invaders lol I play vanilla otherwise in every other souls game ie. dark souls, dark souls 2 and dark souls 3
As long as you don't change the rules of the game itself it's fine. Give yourself all the items ok... give yourself infinite hp, you're trash This only applies to pvp though you can play the game by yourself with infinite hp if you want you are not taking away anyone else's fun. Some say giving yourself items for Pvp is cheating but I disagree. This is something every PvPer is ok with (also when their opponent does it) because it levels the playing field when everyone has the stuff they need. In Invasions PvPer play against people who are not fully equipped but in most cases the invasion is already in favor of the host. You really have to get into Pvp yourself to understand this perspective if you don't already. I was like this too before I got heavily invested in PvP, I didn't know shit about PvP tools, build creation, what takes skill and so on which is why I was just mad at players for having stuff I didn't have. The fact is you have to "cheat" to get better in PvP and take it a bit more serious.
No, it's no "saving time" it's cheating, they design some items to be rare. Rarity of such items created explicitly by the fact you need to huge amount of time to have such items. You not just saving time, you make rare items being not a rare.
@@ShMokou They also designed the save file to have an offline copy. My game always crashes and corrupts my save file when i finish my session, so I just restore the backup, ok!??
I dont like people spawning items because i suffered through 99 purple blood burgeons so you should as well... Frankly thats why i hate the stinginess of the crafting system but i still dont like cheat engine for items at all. Making a route for a build is my favourite passtime since ds1
How do you justify stealing peoples time by that much (20min video, really ?) when it comes to a question that might aswell be, is the sky blue or not. If you need a 20 min video in order to get YOUR OWN thoughts straight on what is and isn't fair then you're a waste of oxygen.
Because he's not really interested in discourse, but justifying himself being a cheater. Thats all it is. It doesn't take 20 minutes to figure out "IS USING THE CHEAT ENGINE, CHEATING?!?"
It's never okay to cheat, dupe, or introduce means in which you have a way to circumvent the game in a way that other players dont. This isnt hard guy. If you don't like grinding for materials lobby harder with FROM SOFTWARE or dont play the game.
@@chriskotte8468 Yes im above it and never did it. Suck on that cheater. Also, I don't even play cheater ring anymore so it doesnt really matter what I think.
Until From Software either does something to stop players duping or adds a means to buy all these crafting materials and consumables in game, I’ll keep duping for as long as they continue making these games because I’m not about to waste hours of my time that I could spend PvPing just so I can throw pots at people when I can get it done much faster, the end result is the same anyhow so it’s whatever at this point. Either way, enjoy farming the same mob for 70 hours just so you can use Golem Arrows in an invasion whilst I’m using the maxed out arrows me and a buddy spent merely around 20-30 minutes duping.
7:05 Turning in my card. I disconnected on an invader because he ran ahead of me in the level, went up an elevator and stood on the button so I could no longer progress, and I wasn't going to suicide and redo the level because of that, so I just closed the game. Not giving him my death just because he wants to exploit a flaw in the game to grief me.
Elden Ring has become one of my most played games ever, with the smallest amount of actual gameplay time, simply from the time it can take to set up just one build legitamately.
Yeah I gave up on doing that a bit ago. I have a level 200 at NG+10 or so that I just have a crap tone of larval tears on, if I run out I just speed run the game again and get more larval tears to respec
The most I have done is teleport myself to the dlc from the beginning
Give myself all maps sacred tears whetblades base game talismans and golden seeds before entering dlc
Otherwise I make my own build from the very beginning of the game
I also don't enter ng+
So basically I do a lot of starting a new save and running around for 2 hours to start whatever playthrough I'm aiming towards
I have 1400 hours in elden ring I see nothing wrong in cheating in items if you want
Do whatever
But I have nothing wrong with just playing the game for everything even after 1400 hours of this
Video games are fun I like starting the save a lot cheating everything in isn't as fun for me because to me it's cheating me out of the experience of playing the beginning of the game
I want to struggle until I get my build and then use my knowledge about the bosses to beat the shit out of everything until I either reach a challenge my build doesn't steamroll where I can then learn the fight better until I am able to complete the fight or just go until I have completed the game again
Cheating in order to create builds or spawn in items that can realistically be gained through a normal playthrough(s) is perfectly fine, as it's mainly only used as a massive time-saver.
The Item Economy in Elden Ring is honestly terrible, even worse than previous FromSoft games what with the crafting system and how many items that are necessary for invasions are incredibly rare drops.
Cheating in items is borderline necessary until FromSoft fixes the game's Item Economy, either by going back to a system where you can just purchase all the items you need in shops, or by massively upping the drop rates for rare items that can only be gained via farming (or both).
In ds3 it was possible to buy almost every pvp related consumable (maybe even all of them), in ER there's literally consumables you can only get more of in NG+
Edit 2: Farming items in this game is a pain in the neck as well as the original comment author pointed out already.
Edit: obviously we do not want to use all that shit on low levels, before somebody accuses me of that
This is probably the only correct take on this. Nobody has the time to farm Starlight Shards and Meat Dumplings on NG cycles. Time saving is fine, anything else is not.
@@rigel9228 ds3 had siegbrau which is pretty good and some people spammed it by cheating it in
why the fuck is there no rune arc merchant trading you un-farmable items in return LOL
thats a genius solution tbh
Been saying since this day 1 of Elden Ring.
Cheating to make a build: *OK* (spawning items instead of mindlessly grinding for hours)
Cheating to counter cheaters: *OK* (for instance, insta-deathblighting someone with infinite HP)
Cheating to grief PvErs/invaders: *NOT OK*
I'd like to disagree with the first point. Obtaining equipment should be part of the game, even if it is tedious.
@qasfgdsdrgyrfddfgddd honestly, f that. Grinding ingredients so you can use consumables is bad design. They should all be purchasable by end game. Items should be there to be used, as most legit players won't bother with the constant grinding to use them
@Helleuphoria
I think they’re distinguishing between crafting materials and weapons / armor. I don’t have any issue whatsoever with duping crafting mats but you gotta admit it’s a bit scummy to use cheat engine to give your RL20 invader the Sacred Relic Sword without even stepping out of Limgrave.
Agreed
@nickoliekeyov746 yeah I was only talking throwables n such really. Weapons and talismans should be done legitimately unless you're going straight to 125/150/200 etc, when it comes to pvp
Duping crafting materials is a time and sanity saving measure that I don’t think should really be an issue.
I appreciate the nuance and intricacy with which you approach this topic. Too often is it reduced to an indefinable binary of 'cheating bad' or 'duping good actually', without any examination of the logic being used. I also like the fact that you explore the corner cases and unfortunate implications of more absolutist attitudes that aren't often acknowledged.
I also appreciate the refocus from 'is this right?' to 'is this healthy for the game's enjoyability?', as it is a far more discrete question that is far easier to answer, and it draws attention to where the root causes of problems actually are. The fact that so many consider using third-party software or manipulating the files directly preferable to the in-game avenues of acquisition for many items is a condemnation of those avenues, and a pretty blatant sign that the item economy is in dire need of review. It is simply not an attitude that would be present in such numbers within a healthy item economy.
miyazakis hatred for ds2 (mad that its peak souls and he had nothing to do with it) has had terrible consequences for subsequent games
True
Bait used to be believable
I just don’t understand why their isn’t a bell bearing to purchase literally every single item that people dupe all the time. Like golem arrows should be sold, greases should be sold, exhaled flesh should be sold, turtle neck should be sold, etc…..
In ds3 basically all the essential pvp tools could be bought for souls, I don’t understand why they couldn’t have allowed players to just buy the stuff. I have no problem farming runes, but farming items is such a pain.
Very true
Chainsaw glitching PvEers was always ok, hell I’d argue that not doing it was unacceptable, you were morally obligated to chainsaw glitch PvEers. The only reason it is gone is because all the PvEers sent Micheal Zaki their feet pics and their prayers were answered whilst we were punished for doing the right thing.
All jokes aside, cheating to make a build is fine, ER makes getting everything set up tedious when you just want to PvP, same with using glitches to take out save edited characters and other exploiters, I’d go as far to say it’s justified to cheat against shitters but that’s probably just because I’m petty lol.
I draw the line at using cheats to grief pvers or invaders with cheated stats or being invincible, making builds faster and having access to alot of items is fine cus either way people will complain if you have 999 doohicky stuff farmed or not
I cheat in items to make new builds, but I do it in a way that when I invade the other player has no reason to believe I've cheated in any way.
I use cheat engine to prep new characters for PvP. There's no way I'm spending hundreds of more hours in a game I've already got hundreds of hours in just to get some fucking arteria leaves. I've already played the single player experience more times than I can remember, the game doesnt respect my time anymore
@@mrbenman97 do you ever feel like you are cheesing other players by doing so? Like if you give yourself golem arrows which are extremely rare and just blast people with them constantly. If they don’t also have access to that stuff so you ever feel guilty?
@@DreyfusLagoon Eh, not really. In my experience the extra items don't give a significant enough bonus to really change the power balance in invasions. If I'm in a 1v3 against people standing around waiting for me to invade, having some golem arrows (just as an example) isnt going to make it much easier.
110% agreed
I like cheating 999 runes in and drop some for wholesome hosts and phantoms i invade. Polite players who bow or wave to their invaders deserve the world.
Honestly i wish the arena had a no consumable rule, im exhaisted by everyone throwing 200 pots, knives, and using rot, magic or lightning drawstrings. ... its annoying as hell
My characters are legit and someone throwing rare pots and drawstrings is annoying.
Personally this is an extremely easy question you can do literally anything you want as long as you do not negatively impact other players experiences
PlayStation Players (like me) wish we could get infinite consumables
I'm right there with you gamer! Would be awesome if at least after completing the game all crafting materials and purchasable items were just available at Round Table. I would even love to see the ability to buy the weapons that are normally rare drops from enemies. Would be an excellent feature for new game plus. Cheers! 🍻
I think you can still do save states; I don't know how that works, but I know some UA-camrs who play on PlayStation and reuse the same save for invasions without running out of perfumes and larval tears
People hate when I gripe about this but there is absolutely a huge advantage for players who dupe compared to those who don't. I don't use consumables as willy nilly because of playing fair, not only do you have less to use but it also affects your psyche where you are in consumable preservation mode
It's not a mechanic because consumables are busted in this game
Turn off auto update on ps save file. Upload your save once someone has dropped you what you need. When you run out of an item download the save.
You can do this to copy items too, to get the materials you need
As a SL1-5 twink invader, i usually place the line at no exploits and no mule/duping. Everything else is fair game. I've seen too many shameless overleveled phantoms or ganks at the "first step" bonfire that i didn't mind using the thunderbolt AoW, volcano pots or a health regen loadout back at them. There is an arm race going on between invaders and ganks and the only losers are the ones from both sides who will try to be legit and "non-sweaty". Me personally, i checked out of Elden Ring and found it more relaxing on DS1 and 2. I just hope FROM makes a solo game next time, the way they handled ER's multiplayer was awful.
Thanks for the video bro, after a long hard deep introspection i realized its very bad to cheat in elden ring. Never will I ever undermine the sanctity of ER multiplayer
I cheated on my wife instead
Come on
This is basically the steroids in athletics situation lol.
I made honest builds for the first few hundred hours, but when every mage is cracking multiple stars, everyone has a million boluses, golem arrows ect, I just can’t anymore. They all deserve it. Chain them together, send them to the volcano with or without cheats
cannot fathom invaders having golem arrows being seen as more dishonest then 3 man teams camping first step at sl125 lmao ppl are wild
edit: also yeah, the trading being allowed really hurts the duping/spawn in argument imo
Cheating should result in an immediate, permanent online ban. Buy the game again if you want to play online.
respectfull fistfight? haha youre a genius dude. i shall
Duping is a solution to Fromsoft's sloppy design.
After i beat ds3 a couple times i usually had a mod that increases soul and drop rate and cheat engine for items bosses or teleportation etc on later playthrus bc i just dont wanna waste time, this sorta thing should be fine as it doesnt harm anyone. Esp as i age and my time and tolerance for grinding shrinks, stuff like this is a must
True
Having fought both actual cheaters and people who used cheat engine to set up characters for pvp at specific levels. There is a difference
great take honestly, agree
Yes, it is totally ok, actually. Me and my level 802 buddies always make sure to stock up on all consumables in the game before we initiate our cooperation against invaders at level 21.
you're an OG, max lvl is 713 now
I just got a 180 days ban after the last update, the only thing I ever did was spawning in a few souls to quickly level a character for pvp a few months ago and nothing happened back then. I think is outrageous that FS will outright block my online for something so trivial without even giving a warning first!
How did you do it? did you turn off easy anti cheat? did you start in offline mode?
Megamule helped keep Dark Souls 1 PvP alive for years and years. I never would have hung around in that game for so long if I'd had to grind out every single build from scratch.
Cheating is cjeating no matter how you look at it. Don't make excuses for your behaviour.
I love the introspection and intricacy here. It has never been as simple as "cheating bad, but duping good". There are other angles and corner cases.
Ill always consider duping cheating because you have to bypass normal gameplay to do it. Though it's ramifications are where the real comversations lie.
I killed commander gaius while hiding behind a wall the whole time and couldn't be happier with my decision
Cheating to get items to make a build is totally fine, some items are just way too tedious to get normally (golem arrows), should be buyable infinitely but aren't (rot boluses) or are available way too late in the game if you wanted to make a build with them (Euporia). Frankly it's almost necessary to dupe ancient dragon smithing stones because the game just doesn't give you enough of them.
miyazaki told me cheating is completely intended, & getting banned is just a skill issue.
Cheating is cheating lol, common sense isn't common these days eh?
The question is when is cheating acceptable. It's never good, just acceptable.
Fromsoft games have one of the only playerbases I've seen where players try to justify cheating and exploiting 💀
rune scammers swinging at the air rn with the ce controversy lately 😭
Elden Ring yet again tries to make a base pvp experience but forgets the basic qol mechanics to make it remotely enjoyable.
From no rewards in pvp to abusable weapons and items.
If only we had a merchant that traded rune arcs for items like starlight shards. Have you also noticed that invaders lose their runes on death but coopers don't? You can't be more obvious about punishing specific playstyles. 🙄 but yeah, 10 out of 10 game, no?
Can I just say locking the DLC behind Mohg and Radhan is bad design when I just want the Milady or repeating crossbow on my low level builds? You don’t even have to fight a single mob to get either of them once you set foot in SOTE, but for some reason, you’re not allowed to pick them up when you start the game like everything else before mountaintops.
Beyond the obvious story implications of those bosses in the DLC, I imagine at least part of their decision was to try and gate it from a progression stance. Sort of a "If you can't beat those bosses, you can't handle the DLC" mentality, though I can't be sure.
I managed to get past Mohg and Radahn on my level 10 +3/+1 but it was entirely through cheese. Bleed, Rot, & Poison and +10 Spirit Ashes can do a surprising amount for any build. Also, if you're having a lot of trouble and don't wanna mess with your build, getting an overleveled friend who can use something like Mohgwyn's Sacred Spear's Bloodboon Ritual can absolutely melt him with the right timing. I'd also highly recommend things like the Uplifting Aromatic. Can make a big difference when you'd otherwise get 1-shot.
Otherwise, yeah, it's sort of lame to have to go through so much of the game just for the DLC items when new builds already have so many chores. But that's Elden Ring for ya.
@@TheAzul_Indigo as long as you are good at the fights you can get access to both those bosses fairly quickly
Aside from your first point about the story, the DLC has its own unintuitive leveling system, with bountiful upgrade materials. I made it in on my RL60 and it was just as hard as when I walked in the first time the night it dropped on my RL138.
My biggest issue with beating mohg is keeping my upgrades low. Even with black knife spam it just doesn’t do enough damage to him with the Nihil.
The best summon for the fight is easily +10 dungeater but I’d need to go get the cerulean hidden tear to be able to summon him with 10 mind, which also means I’d have to summon before Nihil to use the purifying tear.
It’s just lame that the DLC weapons have such low stat requirements. It also means that anybody seen using them at low levels is always seen as suspicious.
I also don’t have any friends that play ER to summon. Uplifting Aromatic sounds great but is limited by crafting materials and FP. I’m also not sure how much it would help me because I have most of mohg’s moveset down. I always end up dying to the bloodflame I fail to carian retaliate and not his actual spear attacks.
I appreciate the suggestions Jon, but by the time I beat him and get my build together I’ll already be planning another one.
@@TheAzul_Indigo Yeah, I don't mean to downplay any part of the struggle. It's a genuinely tough and annoying situation to deal with.
Saint_Riot did a video where he took him on with a base character just by looping Mohg's moveset with a bit of baiting. He made it seem quite easy but in reality I'm sure it's a lot harder to consistently get right if you don't have adequate practice.
And the Scadutree leveling system in the DLC does genuinely feel like it makes standard character levels much less relevant. It's weird how viable playing even with lower leveled weapons can be against some of the early DLC bosses. Hardest thing I ran into was having to 1v1 Rakshasa because they're immune to all status (I think) and spirit ashes aren't allowed.
I suspect they may have wanted to make it harder to twink without outright forbidding it. At least, it feels that way.
@@emotionaljonxvx Sane Ryan’s scrub dojo is the best value-per-minute video on his channel. I stayed up all weekend fighting mohg, rewatch, fight mohg again, rewatch, etc. It’s always stay close, and roll right. The only way you mess up is if he does the downwards spray, but it’s got a delay, and if you miss your carian retaliation, then you’ve got to back up or take heavy DOT. Suddenly, BAM! he’s throwing blood EVERYWHERE!
Re: Rakshasa, yea I wouldn’t even try the gaol bosses.
I hope that when they make their next game they make the level cap 80 or something like that. Have us *all* “git gud” and make sacrifices for our build. Not just the twinks! 😭
Cheating for the sake of making builds, especially in a specific level bracket is a GOD SEND. Especially if you're like me and like to make a lot of different builds. Just recently i made a Man Eater Mildred kosplay in Bloodborne, but realized i needed to get to a late game area to buy poison knives.
Now to do the same thing in a massive game like Elden Ring sounds obnoxious, and I totally respect those who admit they just don't have the time or patience to set up a build "legitimately" everytime they want to experiment
Obviously cheating to grief is unacceptable.
As someone who mainly PvP in arena, there is 0 things wrong with giving yourself items to save time. I have 1000+ hours in most souls games, but 0 of that is from farming. I’m a grown ass man I don’t have time to deal with abysmal drops, I just want to game.
My rule for this is if I beat game then I can give myself w/e, so I can PvP comfortably.
Shocked they didn’t make everything purchasable with souls in dlc since duping is so common.
Some guy says using exploits land glitches in the same as using spirit ashes lol
Duping items is fine it just invalidates 1/8 stats and removes the reward system from pve as well as the need for co-op with newer players/s
Only time I disconnect is if I see a gank and I don't have enough time to activate the finger severing knife
Cheating is fine as long as you are not violating the limits of your own build, such as increasing your health above qhat your vigor and items give, infinite stamina, infinite estus, etc etc
Considering I don't have much interest in PvP, my aim in duping and other such things would be to try new builds, save the time of grinding, or not deal with overly obtuse sidequests.
Honestly I wouldn’t blame someone for using cheats to get certain items, since no one wants to grind or do another new playthrough to get a bit of rope for their grease.🐱
My personal belief has always been if you’re altering the game with any code or data not designed or written by the official devteam, it’s cheating. Glitches, exploits, and skips are completely valid.
HOWEVER, I believe there’s absolutely nothing wrong with playing the game how you like if you’re enjoying a solo experience or experimenting. So long as you aren’t actively compromising the enjoyment or value of another player’s experience in the process it’s not a bad deed.
Video games are fun first, always. And for some people modding and hacks are how they have their own fun. Just respect your fellow gamers along the way.
as a console pve player id love to one day use a max level build against bosses
I spawn in all my crafting materials and starlight shards. Ill get all my equipment by playing through the game. Having to farm is too disrespectful of my time.
It's OK to play a game however you want. You don't need some UA-camr to tell you whether or not it's OK. Trainers can't be used while the game is connected to the internet, so it doesn't affect PvP. No problem here.
I think duping should be okay. What is not okay is exploiting in-game mechanics like tumblebuffing 🤷🏿♀️
We do be cheating
Players who are bad at the game think it's cheating. Players who are good at the game don't think it's cheating. Go figure. As an invader, I definitely use starlight shards, etc. because of the poorly designed consumable mechanics and invader disadvantages. Most invasions are 3v1, which means if every player involved allocoted their flask to only healing, for example, that would be 42 healing flasks vs. my 7 while dealing with 3 people at the same time... The players who say its cheating are the same players who quit out of their game when the invader has killed both of their summons. If you dont strive to get better at the game, why are you complaining about item duping in the first place? If the host and his summons had starlight shards, marikas blessings, etc, im not gonna complain, im gonna continue on and try to win as best I can. Complaining and quitting doesn't make you a better player. People that complain about item duping saying its a disadvantage for the people who dont item dupe, well HELLO! Invaders are already at a huge disadvantage the moment they step into an invasion. Pvers like to ignore this simply because their mindset is; if it doesn't inconvenience ME than its fair. Start invading, and you'll quickly understand why our duping is justified.
I use cheats offline only, to fast track builds and refight bosses, that's it. I think if you've played and beaten a game multiple times, I think cheating in items and such to skip the grind is okay, as long as you're not ruining the experience online (obviously).
Duping is the line
I'll always advocate for item duplication via CE due to the game's insanely bad loot economy. There's no way to realistically grind out the consumables (I tried).
If you're playing offline and never pvp, then cheat all the F you want, alter stats, drop loot, use mods, whatever. It's only your own experience you're screwing with .
If you're online and playing PVP? No, don't do anything outside of the game.
If that means you have to spend hours farming for rare items to make things that help you in PVP then that's the game.
my line was simple before eldenring but right now its a mess... i usually farm everything possible on the character and then trade and dupe all the consumables. all the weapons need to be accessed in the world to play them and if i want to dual wield or have multiple copies then i have to get them on another character if i want to use them.
all the talismans and cookbooks need to be accessed in the world aswell.
so ie i duplicate the consumables and trade over the weapons for multiples. and even with that i have spent so much time farming in this game it's actually insane... more than 500h for farming and buildmaking and thats the lowest estemate i could come up with...😢 guys.... if you want to pvp with a set build and dont have 100h just for setting up 2 characters then cheat... i dunno what else to say sorry from😮💨
I play seamless coop with my fiance. I used cheat engine to set up our builds from the beginning and then we play through the game. I also don’t like dealing with invaders lol I play vanilla otherwise in every other souls game ie. dark souls, dark souls 2 and dark souls 3
As long as you don't change the rules of the game itself it's fine. Give yourself all the items ok... give yourself infinite hp, you're trash
This only applies to pvp though you can play the game by yourself with infinite hp if you want you are not taking away anyone else's fun.
Some say giving yourself items for Pvp is cheating but I disagree. This is something every PvPer is ok with (also when their opponent does it) because it levels the playing field when everyone has the stuff they need. In Invasions PvPer play against people who are not fully equipped but in most cases the invasion is already in favor of the host.
You really have to get into Pvp yourself to understand this perspective if you don't already. I was like this too before I got heavily invested in PvP, I didn't know shit about PvP tools, build creation, what takes skill and so on which is why I was just mad at players for having stuff I didn't have. The fact is you have to "cheat" to get better in PvP and take it a bit more serious.
Cheat engine offline is fine. In a single player game.
yeah, cheating's super cool.
No, it's no "saving time" it's cheating, they design some items to be rare. Rarity of such items created explicitly by the fact you need to huge amount of time to have such items. You not just saving time, you make rare items being not a rare.
@@ShMokou They also designed the save file to have an offline copy. My game always crashes and corrupts my save file when i finish my session, so I just restore the backup, ok!??
@@youtubeenjoyer1743 just don't get angry if you die to a "noob host/phantom" and spend all these rare items, ok?
@@ShMokouwhat do noob hosts have to do with this?
good video ❤
I dont like people spawning items because i suffered through 99 purple blood burgeons so you should as well... Frankly thats why i hate the stinginess of the crafting system but i still dont like cheat engine for items at all. Making a route for a build is my favourite passtime since ds1
Yes it is
How do you justify stealing peoples time by that much (20min video, really ?) when it comes to a question
that might aswell be, is the sky blue or not.
If you need a 20 min video in order to get YOUR OWN thoughts straight on what is and isn't fair then you're a waste of oxygen.
The irony in your comment is off the charts.
Because he's not really interested in discourse, but justifying himself being a cheater. Thats all it is. It doesn't take 20 minutes to figure out "IS USING THE CHEAT ENGINE, CHEATING?!?"
No
It's never okay to cheat, dupe, or introduce means in which you have a way to circumvent the game in a way that other players dont. This isnt hard guy. If you don't like grinding for materials lobby harder with FROM SOFTWARE or dont play the game.
Everybody dupes bro. Don’t act like you above it. If you ever been handed runes they were duped. They let players drop items for a reason.
@@chriskotte8468 Yes im above it and never did it. Suck on that cheater. Also, I don't even play cheater ring anymore so it doesnt really matter what I think.
@@chriskotte8468 True. It's always funny to see players like this guy that blame their bad performance on their opponent's consumable items.
@@chriskotte8468 Yes, everybody who is against cheating actually secretly cheats. you sound like a gay person.
Until From Software either does something to stop players duping or adds a means to buy all these crafting materials and consumables in game, I’ll keep duping for as long as they continue making these games because I’m not about to waste hours of my time that I could spend PvPing just so I can throw pots at people when I can get it done much faster, the end result is the same anyhow so it’s whatever at this point.
Either way, enjoy farming the same mob for 70 hours just so you can use Golem Arrows in an invasion whilst I’m using the maxed out arrows me and a buddy spent merely around 20-30 minutes duping.
Any form of cheating is a maidenless act only enticing to cowards.
I’m in Xbox and I gotta play for 10 hrs to make one build
If I had a choice I’d cheat
Or people who just want to pvp and don't want to have Miyazaki waste hundreds of hours of their lives.
Bet you're a proud ganker.
Its sad, Lots of salty invaders are duping items ect.
I use my cheating for good.
Items (non corrupt) for everyone
At random
Also luv ya jon
Seamless co op is cheating
7:05 Turning in my card. I disconnected on an invader because he ran ahead of me in the level, went up an elevator and stood on the button so I could no longer progress, and I wasn't going to suicide and redo the level because of that, so I just closed the game. Not giving him my death just because he wants to exploit a flaw in the game to grief me.