I've been watching this show at least twice a year for the last 10 year, and I've never noticed CGI Livia until someone pointed it out to me a couple of month earlier.
I like the way it actually turned out. The Sopranos excelled at NOT wrapping things up in a neat or expected way (the Russian, Furio, Ralph and the horse, etc). The fact that Tony’s feelings about Livia ARE unresolved haunts him in the later seasons and is a big part of his character.
It's also shitty writing. I love, love, love the Sopranos. But let's be honest, they fucked the pooch on some of their interim plotlines. Ya know, like this guy says. There's a fake, red herring "one-season-only" villain every time, and the piecemeal way the show was shot and written is why we have those moments. It's not the show "excelling" so much as it is "having one director write or direct one episode a year and not doing a very good job of establishing a season-level through-line." Nobody's calling for "neat and expected," but "exists" would be fine. I love this show, again, but it's not perfect. It's okay to admit its mistakes.
@@davemccombs Although I can agree to an extent. Sopranos (to me) seems to be the only TV show flaws seem to work in itself, not every storyline got wrapped up which left viewers on the edge of their seats. Always wondering about what happens next, it happens that many times that not once during my first viewing could I predict anything major which is a rarity for me.
@@davemccombs I didn't understand exactly what you are trying to convey but if we are talking about Sopranos not tying up loose threads then it's absolutely not a bad thing and neither bad writing. It takes few seconds of screen time to show Jimmy Altieri was really a rat or to show Russian lying dead in the woods or to show Ralph indeed burnt the stables. But either of these doesn't add anything of importance to the show. In fact not giving these things creates this lingering ambiguity over the show which reflects the ambiguity of real life, without harming the show in any way. It also makes sense from storytelling perspective since our pov characters don't know it so we don't know it.
You’re theory was proven to be correct. On “Talking Sopranos” Podcast Episode #28 Michael Imperioli admits that David did indeed plan to have Livia testify in court against Tony for the airline tickets. Can only imagine how it would turned out if she was still alive for season 3. Great video. PS: He discusses the airline tickets plot at 1:00:00 mark. Enjoy.
I mean, David Chase said that was his plan a decade ago. That wasn't a big reveal. OP didn't predict it, he just thinks the show would have been better. Which has not been proven.
As disappointing as it is that Tony never got to have a real send off with Livia, that episode with her funeral is some of the best shit that The Sopranos has to offer. Also the weird shadow she has over the rest of the show is perfect. Shows that even after she’s gone, she haunts Tony’s psyche. I’m sure Chase would’ve kept that in anyways, but having Tony never really have a cathartic blow-up with his mother makes it even darker and creepier that she has such a hold on him from beyond the grave.
I feel like it was appropriate for the show because it’s so emblematic of real life. We often don’t get climactic send offs or confrontations. Things more likely fizzle out or fade away as opposed to a grand explosion. As Livia says herself: “It’s all a big nothing.”
It’s a shame that Nancy Marchand passed away, she was an incredible actress. But honestly, I think the show only got better throughout season 3 to 4. Not because Livia was no longer in it, but because the “extra” plot lines he mentions in the video were super interesting and made the show a blast to me. Plus Livia never really died, as you mentioned; her memory impacted the show until the last episode.
Chris' stoned monologue at the funeral reception was classic! Anyone who has ever tried to pull off not being high in public can identify with this scene.
Man, whatever happened to Paulie and Patsy? Their whole family was taken out. Wonder where they went? Maybe Paulie joined New York, I mean Carmine senior always spoke highly of him.
@@mikimiyazaki no all the horse references conflating the dead girl in Pio my like kid is a thoroughbred and the chompers on that girl etc. go to show it really didn’t matter Tony was really killing him for killing the girl subconsciously
I don't understand the mystery here. She died, couldn't testify and so the case was barely worth pursuing. As far as Tony's relationship with her, it's made very clear that NOTHING changed. In fact, the show is MORE interesting, having characters die randomly, as ppl do in real life. I understand that we don't know what David Chase's original future plot was but this isn't the "show's biggest mystery" ... The show is what we were showN so an actual mystery would be ... How did it really end?
This isn't a mystery involving the shows world. It's a mystery involving our world behind the scenes of the show. But I agree, the fact that she died randomly had its own interesting affect on the show.
@@cavemanzach9475 exactly. That’s what I always thought. If she had come clean in the beginning before Matush killed that big dude, she would’ve lived.
I've always felt that the first two seasons of The Sopranos were the best and that the show, as great as it was in its entirety, did suffer to a degree qualitatively over the last four seasons. And yet I've never been able to identify what explains my feelings. The absence of Nancy Marchand and the way her death impacted the show is definitely an idea worth exploring.
I did have signals of them losing sight of what this show is later in the seasons but nonetheless, the way it turned out was better though than any show that starts to lose focus later on. They made a nothing out of something and made it blossom cause this show is still talked about in a good way less than the bad
I got the HBO Max app, and let me tell you something: I actually watched the Sopranos for the first time in forever and my Dad's attitude in his last few months was just like Livia's. I couldnt tell you how much, in that respect, I related to Tony Soprano for the first time ever. I loved the show when I was in High school, I really got to watching it when it was winding down, but still loved even more on the re-watch. Honestly if you did a version of season 3 where Nancy Marchand lived that would be an interesting watch.
It really isn’t one particular thing. The therapy and the mother-son relationship fit into a bigger idea of humanizing and de-dramatizing this mob boss while also still being a great mob drama. That’s why the show was such a success
Nancy Marchand dying very nearly sunk season 3. They had to do emergency rewrites and he apparently told people he (Chase) was up all night nonstop nearly a week.
I'm kind of glad how it all worked out. Him not getting any closure on his mother was way more fitting for the show then him having a moment of closure of getting all his anger out because of her. There is no way a relationship as toxic as theirs would have any closure
i cannot lie, i love the sopranos, but i'm glad she passed before they started filming the third season. rest in peace to Nancy Marchand, i don't mean this in any sense where i'm saying i'm glad she died, but i hated her character in the show. i could barely stand the scenes with her in them, so when she was out of the show by the beginning of s3 i was so relieved that i would no longer have to suffer through her parts in the show
Carlo was going to testify against him mentioned in the last episode. The lawyer at the strip club in the last episodes mentioned the airline tickets were part of the ongoing rico case👍
I would have had Livia make Tony and his family sweat it out right up until she takes the stand. If Tony tries talking to her prior to her testifying, id have Livia play up her dementia / old age. But overall for Tony and the viewer i would have them thinking it could go either way. Then on the witness stand we see Livia be who she is, which is an old school mafia wife. She would get up on the stand and show that shes always kept her wits and shows up the prosecution. They drop all charges or find tony not guilty and tony finally realizes that A.) His mother truly does love him and B.) This is the only way she can show it because of her flaws. This gives Tony some peace and as the family goes out (or has a party at the house) for Tony getting off on the charges, Livia collapses or has some kind or stress induced heart attack. season 3 ends with her clinging to life and on the verge of death but Tony is unsure how to feel. Or like hes feeling devastated and broken up but also some relief. Then, depending on the shows direction the writers decisions they can figure out what they plan on doing with Livia going forward.
Did they ever consider hiring a new actor to fill the role of Tony’s mother? I think Nancy was so embedded into the hearts and minds of us all that it would not work to substitute in a new actor. Thoughts?
Agree with you 100% Nancy has such a distinct look and personality that could not be replicated, we saw actor changes on the show but never with major characters for this reason.
@@Devin0835 then you have actors playing other people when they would go on to be main characters, like vito being in the pastry shop when Christopher shoots the guy in the foot.
Sure, I think the Livia story could have had a more climactic finish but one of the thing's I appreciate about the Sopranos and the shows it inspired is that sometimes there isn't a big climax. Not only is it truer to life but when you do get a big climax to a story arc it feels more satisfying.
Yep. Not knowing for sure about that poor bastard’s fate is the best part. If there had been something definitive later on or whatever would’ve ruined it man.
I appreciate your take on what could've happened, it's well thought out. That being said I dont think it couldve ever played out that way. Livia was miserable and nobody ever (except maybe svetlana) got on her good side. Her character was simple yet brilliant, a black hole flying through the middle of a very important circle, sucking in everything that got too close. But, as Bobby says "who the fuck really knows huh?" Thanks for the good content!
My theory? Livia would have spent the entire season basking in the reparations her son made, only to leave him under the impression that she was still gonna testify anyways. The kicker? she's old school as fuck. No way she would have talked to the feds for anything. She would have played up the dementia and gotten out of it. I firmly believe that they adapted Livia's storyline for Junior. They were tactful enough to abandon the airline ticket storyline, but Tony's strained relationship with Junior combined with his mental decline was a huge part of the back-half of the show. It would have been very different if Tony was watching his mother fade before his eyes.
This, but I think Chase would've had her die later in the season, making it ambiguous as to whether or not she would actually testify or not. Chase never liked clear cut answers, even S1 it can be debated - Was Livia FULLY aware she was plotting her son's death, or was it that she was developing dementia and plotting JOHNNY'S death and her increasingly confused mind conflated husband and son? It'd be a very Chase like move to build up an arc as to whether or not she's gonna testify, Tony doing all he can to win back her love in the hopes she won't....And then she just dies. And neither Tony nor we know what she would've actually done, leaving Tony right back at the start, having mixed emotions over his mother.
@@Bklyn93 this is a clever idea too. Too bad chase is a smug fuck and doesn't like being asked about stuff like this because 20 years later it would be cool to get some insight into his creative process
As much as I loved Livia as a character, I think I preferred the show after her death. Her and Tony's relationship not being the central focus of the show allowed the writers to breathe and fill in the world of the Sopranos in a way that felt very realistic and satisfying to me. In my opinion, all the additional characters you mentioned that got increased screen time had great arcs and added to the lore of the show so well. A lesser show wouldn't have known how to handle the death of a character central to the storyline of an entire season. Your video honestly made me respect the later seasons more, knowing that the storylines were written under a crunch.
Yeah dude I think this really works as what season 3 probably would’ve looked like. What I disagree with is the idea that the show wasn’t as good after 2, honestly, for me it really becomes one of the greatest shows after season 2...and that’s because we have all this weight from 1 and 2, having been mostly concluded, to anchor us in the reality and history of the show. 1 and 2 are the tightest plotted seasons of the show and act as a foundation for the grand ambiguities and experimental directions and detours into facets of American life they decided to explore. Further, the death of Livia before this plot line can come to fruition also works as the perfect bitter irony and anti-climax the show indulges in as a reflection of the absurdity and any-climax of life. It’s in Livia’s death that we get to explore the theme that I personally think is one of the Sopranos strongest: the spiritual. No other shows of its calibre really deal in the idea of life after death or ghostly hauntings or even alternative lives lived on the cusp of death. Hell, most other top US shows usually exist in a world where the spirit fundamentally does not exist - see the Wire and Deadwood and even BoJack Horseman. But in the Sopranos, the spirit world does sorta exist: even if it’s solely in someone’s mind it’s given weight because we see and live it with the characters...and the key to inviting us into that spirit world is the death of Livia. See how all the spirits come out to play at her wake : big pussy in the mirror, the stranger on the staircase, the guy in the cemetery...almost signposting the show’s trajectory of eventually having Tony on the brink of life and death, as embodied by a family gathering in a beautiful lodge, and who comes to invite him in? His mother. I’m of the opinion that the ghost of Livia is more powerful than the living one. Alive, there’s always a potential future, always another bout...but dead, she becomes the impossible reconciliation, the itch that’s never scratched and we watch Tony ultimately fail in his quest for therapy and finish the series right where he started: talking about his unresolved issues with his mother. Unresolved yes, because of their personalities, but also, fundamentally, because she died. And not dying in the properly plotted way you describe is almost better because it’s more realistic. Life doesn’t end when the arc naturally would nor is it ever as brilliantly poetic as the scene you described...it just ends. Suddenly. And all the potential goes for a future and it’s just those left behind who are haunted by that life. It’s the hauntings of people we knew that remind us of the inherent fear that we too will die and likely haunt others after us. And I think that sort of philosophising is only actively encouraged by the show in later seasons due in part to Livia’s unexpected death. So I went on tangents a bit there lol but I hope I made some sense. I think your plotting is spot on for how it would’ve played out and I am sad that we never got to see that scene in Livia’s bedroom as you described cos it would’ve been brilliant.
Much appreciated! I just want to clarify I don’t want you to think I meant the show goes downhill or anything in later seasons. In fact my top 3 favorite episodes all come within Seasons 3-6 (Pine Barrens, Long Term Parking, and Whitecaps). Like you pointed out the seasons weren’t as tight as they were in first two seasons and wasn’t as near perfect either as most of the shows flaws, and common gripes came within Season 3 on. I do see where your coming from though, and the show continued to be great even despite of this blow (which just adds to the shows legacy). Livia’s death is certainly something that never fully goes away, as her spirit is there and continues to haunt the show. I wanted to come up with something believable, and satisfying while not changing the show too much because why would anyone want to do that? If you want I can send you an Episode outline I made for this alternate Season 3. Let me know if your interested!
@@Devin0835 aw dude I would be super interested in reading that! Don’t worry I get that you don’t think it goes downhill - that was poor wording on my part - I guess it comes down to personal preferences. I think I prefer that unfocused, esoteric and sort of meditative storytelling with sudden bursts of plot development as opposed to the more streamlined and properly crafted storytelling of seasons 1 and 2. Like, I enjoy a bit of fat or slight dips in quality if the highs are even greater in response. If you get me.
@@Aloysius2113 in Livia’s wake scene there’s a weird moment - as they begin to ‘reminisce’ about Livia - that a strange man can be seen lingering on the staircase behind Tony. He looks over and then walks up the stairs. Probably an extra trying to get out of shot but, keeping it in, adds to the already eerie atmosphere of the wake and works well alongside the shot of Pussy in the mirror to convey how close to the spirit world we are right now.
Dude, please buy a new mic. It sounds like you recorded this on a condenser microphone. I feel the character died at the right time. She was already becoming repetitive and annoying. The tickets thing was her last big hurrah before she too descended into the necessity of storyline repetition.
I know she died in real life but as I’m talking about her character not Nancy Marchand I was happy when Livia died on the show I couldn’t stand her lol
condenser microphones are fine. sound-treat the room best as possible and learn how to edit/enhance audio properly. also a few other acoustic principles like microphone placement. that does not mean that a new mic would not hurt. but nothing is wrong with a condenser mic.
Given the circumstances, they pulled this show out of the proverbial fire when Nancy died. It could’ve easily fallen apart, but they managed to save it; mostly by her spirit, her PRESENCE, was never out of the spotlight for long. It’s kind of like how your own loved-ones still affect you, even though they’ve passed on. Nancy Marchand was FANTASTIC, tho. I wish she could’ve been there for the whole ride. =\
I would love for you to do different versions of how the story could go because I just cannot get enough Sopranos. Even if you were the one creating it, the more the better. I love the show how it was but I also enjoyed watching your version of the missing storyline. You did a good job. Thanks
I think your story was great, but I also think that Lyvia's ghost was haunting the story and it's characters from the grave in a sense - which also works really well. You can still feel her presence hanging over the story.
Great job, never thought about it, sopranos is and will always be my favorite show. Just have 1 advice, you need to get a decent mic dude, but besides that great video! :)
Ralphie did kill Pie, he says 'It was a fuckin' horse!' I know that he was devastated over his son's accident, but his callous response tells me that the writers wanted us to believe he did. Tony believed it.
Livia’s character was the perfect antagonist and Marchand’s acting was brilliant. I’m sure they at least would have considered a different actress after Marchand’s passing but it wouldn’t have felt right. Same way the old Dallas TV series tried a season subbing Donna Reed for Bel Geddes in the role of Ellie Ewing. In part we have such strong feelings for the character because of the tremendous acting. Better let the story line take a more organic turn than forcing a new actress on the audience.
Livia Soprano would have started a crew with young punks who were itching to make a name for themselves. They would've tried to rob the Bing against Livia's orders where one would be shot and killed, but not before shooting Georgie Santorelli which results in him going into a coma. Not wanting to cause further trouble, Livia would have given away the location of the escaped young punk resulting in him (said punk) being shot in the back of the head by Paulie.
I think apart of what made season 1 feel so focused is that David Chase originally wrote Sopranos as a screenplay for a movie. The movie actually lacked alot of the peripheral plotlines seen in season 1 and mainly focused on Tony,Livia and Junior's conflict. Anyway great video Gotta be honest I don't really watch enough Gameplay Commentary videos anymore for your channel in it's current state to appeal to me but I would really like to see more analytical stuff from you.
This is just false. The Tony, Livia and Junior conflict was not mainly focused in season 1, it may have been the main storyline but saying it had more focus in order storylines of the Sopranos is false, every other season after focused on consequences and linearity so much more than season 1.
@JayoJay where is your sources for this information? Cause junior was the secondary protagonist for pretty much all the seasons so saying he could have had a bigger seems odd, it basically means he could have taken away screen time from other characters.
@@lampad4549 David Chase originally envisioned the show as a movie about a mobster in therapy because of issues with his mother during the backdrop of a big gang war. The therapist would help Tony to see that his mother was the one pulling the strings and wanted him dead. When Tony would go to kill her, she would already be dead. That same plot was the blueprint in Season 1. So yes, it was the main focus and a very concrete story in terms of who were the "protagonists" and "antagonists". The other seasons were not a straight forward in terms of plot. Everything that we saw in Season 2 was a direct effect of what happened from this plot line.
@@lampad4549 Same goes for Livia, we just don't know what her role would have been had she been healthy. She could have very well taken screen time away from other characters. THAT IS WHY IT'S THE SHOWS GREATEST UNANSWERED QUESTION! The whole dynamic of the show in future seasons could have been very different because of it.
Great video for the most part. Audio was quite bad, assume you used a laptop mic. Try look into getting a focusrite and an sm57, will help a loooot. Bout 300 dollars maybe. As for the thoughts that you had, I really enjoyed them, thought provoking and insightful. I hope you make more videos like this, I'm sure you're followers will explode if you keep plugging away. Thanks for the video dude, I'll be watching more in future
I didn't realize until years later that Jim was played by a little blond kid I went to junior high school with in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, named John Costelloe. Joseph R. Gannascoli, who played Vito, also grew up and went to school in the neighborhood (as did a half dozen other actors from the show). I also found out, years later, that John Costelloe had killed himself, in 2008, a couple of years after his time on The Sopranos. I don't know the whole story and I'm not sure if anyone, outside of his family does.
Wondering if this should be a trend you should challenge other sopranos UA-camrs to finish the livia story! I had fun listening to yours and thinking how I would do it! Awesome vid thanks for the hard work!
I think the scene where Tony stands up to Livia in defense of Janice is one of the series' best. It exemplifies the bunker mentality that develops between people stuck with and repeatedly subjected to the insults and judgment of a toxic personality.
When Janice put music her mom liked, Livia got choked up & said “My children” & held Janice’s hands. Idk if Janice really wanted her approval or was being manipulative. Tony killing his mom would’ve been rotten bc as bad as we know Tony is, that’s the worse.I can’t watch other episodes bc he wanted to kill Paulie, Hesh, & killed Chris who he supposedly loved.
A witness for a federal Rico case involving the Mafia would not be staying in there home but would be hidden away. In the Godfather 2 they hid a witness on a military base
This really underlines just how amazing David Chase and the writers were because I genuinely feel as if Season Three is the best season without this storyline that we were robbed of.
The character... to me... and what I heavily thought was what the show was getting at... was that Livia was bi polar and senile. I didn’t care for the plot besides the psychology of Tony. I still don’t think she really understood what she was doing. I always thought this was the intention. The character does not come off as a master manipulator with a plan. She’s just manipulative and not at her own will.
Huge testament to the show and the writers that they could keep the plot moving after losing such a great actor like Nancy Marchand, who I'm pretty sure was meant to be the main "villain" of the series had she been around for its entire run. I don't even find myself thinking about all of the storylines we probably missed out on until I come across a topic like this one -- that's how good of a job they did
They really did Nancy Marchand dirty with that CGI, she was a good actress and deserved better than for her final "perfomance" to just be a bunch of dubbed over lines from previous scenes. It was probably the worst decision made over the course of the entire show
I actually prefer David Chase’s story line with Livia passing before the trial of a stroke. As vindictive as she was, she would never testify against Tony and she would have used the fake dementia to avoid testifying against him. Livia was too underhanded to do it herself, she preferred to manipulate others to get rid of Tony, like her convincing Corrado that Tony was the de facto boss behind his back. The story line was just as good after Livia passed. In fact, she was such a deplorable mother, we couldn’t wait till she was gone and we don’t blame Tony for feeling relieved she was gone. The first 2 seasons was only a backstory to understand how complicated a person Tony really was. We can empathize with his feelings and relate to him not withstanding his crime boss killings.
I was starting to feel that Livia would testify against Tony given how she wants him DEAD. But you made me remember she is a mob widow and would never rat.
i imagine shes all set up to testify and then something at the trial happens that insults her pride like maybe someone imply she shouldve been in a nursing home, or maybe they bring someone to the trial a la godfather 2 who she doesnt wanna snitch in front of maybe like an old mob wife friend from back in the day, anyways something makes her change her mind and she delivers to the prosecutor her iconic catchphrase “i dont know what youre talking about”
At the end, Butchie was the biggest enigma of the whole series. He was straight up Phil's guy pushing Tony to the limits, then all of a sudden when they're about to have the NJ mob crushed, he was like the Grinch and grew a heart and suddenly did a 180 and was in Tony's camp. Even giving him the okay to take out Phil.
Butchie was in the perfect spot at the perfect time. I loved how he just totally threw up his hands and said f*** this. And took a few steps to be on top himself. Phil never appreciated how dangerous that guy was.
@@jpmnky If you think about it - Tony's crew was always undisciplined, completely dysfunctional and a liability to anyone who did business with them. In the real world, they would have been exterminated in season one.
I wish so bad we were able to have more Livia scenes so I didn't have to suffer from the terrible Meadow at college storyline! Uggghhh I wish tha lord would take me, it's all a big nothin!
Livia was a terrific part of the Sopranos. She was greatly missed, but I don’t think it screwed up the series at all. But it would’ve been darn interesting to see what would’ve happened if she’d been around.
David Chase said he was going to bring back the Russian and have him show up in Slava's office but he had a head wound and had no memory of what happened
macroeconomics, chartalism is a theory of money that argues that money originated with states' attempts to direct economic activity rather than as a spontaneous solution to the problems with barter or as a means with which to tokenize debt, and that fiat currency has value in exchange because of sovereign power to levy taxes on economic activity payable in the currency they issue
1.) The Russian was found by a group of Boy scouts he died due to the blood loss and Extreme cold... 2.)Ralph did not kill Pie of my... 3.)Furio went back home to Italy after tony found out... 4.) Tony was killed by guy in The members only jacket...
Personally, I was relieved when livia passed away (in the show of course, God rest Nancy Marshawns soul) and I liked the show more once her character was gone. I just really couldn't stand her character. Every time I rewatch the show its like a big hurdle for me and I feel once that part with her is over, im over the hump and it smoothes out. Weather she stuck around longer or it remained the same, it still would have been a great show, I mean it just would of been one more season of her, then the show and plot would of still had to continue somehow and im not sure how different it would actually be after season 3 if she lived through it. Eithet way, I love the show but it can be so bittersweet, I really miss the 90s/early '00s sometimes.
I have to say first, I usually don't leave comments for the same reason I don't post on facebook....because there's already enough people that feel the need to share their every thought. I'm commenting now because the part about Tony going to kill his mother only to realize she died in her sleep would have been some of the best television ever made. I can't tell you how great that idea it let's Tony find his way off the hook, but without having to go to that ultimate extreme of killing his mother. Seeing how HBO apparently fought David chase over Tony killing that first guy he strangled and how the main character can't do something like that), I can't see them being any better about the guy killing his own mother. If anything, I think a lot of fans of the show would have been put off by the idea the main character was cold blooded enough to kill his own mother, even if he is a mobster. But awesome stuff, man.
I don’t think the Sopranos would’ve been drastically better if Livia’s story continued longer. Her shadow over Tony, and even AJ, was really great, and honestly her death was kind of used as a twist, since we were expecting the FBI to get some real progress against Tony with the Airline tickets. I think the writer’s response to her unfortunate death was masterful. But you’re right, we’ll never really know which one would be better. Great video though, once you get to the end of the series you kinda forget that they had all these plans that didn’t end up happening.
I know this is half unrelated, but I wish we saw more of Barbara. I understand why she is gone for the majority of the show, but I wish we saw more of her. I also agree, we all have a Livia in our lives, and my Livia is my own Nana.
No matter how good this show is, these stories are not real. Sopranos was the masterpiece of David Chase, and arguably the best tv show, just think how much work he put on to create someting spectacular like this and he takes a big risk by keeping Nancy Marchand working. I admire David Chase for granting her last wish.
Audio sounding like somebody in the room adjacent is playing the video through their macbook speakers
" in the room adjacent" lmfao there's no way u actually tlk lik tht
@@isaiahross6067 We're not all severely uneducated like yourself big boy
@@gamingsuperun lmfaoooo
This is so on point, it hurts
@@isaiahross6067 BTFO!!!!!!
Once CGI Livia is seen it can never be unseen.
Seriously WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!!
Still slightly less scary than when Paulie saw The Virgin Mary.
Where was CGI Livia?? I gotta see this
I wish the lord would take me.
I've been watching this show at least twice a year for the last 10 year, and I've never noticed CGI Livia until someone pointed it out to me a couple of month earlier.
saying "smuggle" instead of "smother" so many times makes me think maybe you're related to little carmine?
😆 Underrated comment!
Haha I had to play it back I wasn’t sure I heard it correctly
Bwaaaaa roasted
He is rather allegorical
The sacred and the propane
I like the way it actually turned out. The Sopranos excelled at NOT wrapping things up in a neat or expected way (the Russian, Furio, Ralph and the horse, etc). The fact that Tony’s feelings about Livia ARE unresolved haunts him in the later seasons and is a big part of his character.
It's also shitty writing.
I love, love, love the Sopranos. But let's be honest, they fucked the pooch on some of their interim plotlines. Ya know, like this guy says. There's a fake, red herring "one-season-only" villain every time, and the piecemeal way the show was shot and written is why we have those moments. It's not the show "excelling" so much as it is "having one director write or direct one episode a year and not doing a very good job of establishing a season-level through-line."
Nobody's calling for "neat and expected," but "exists" would be fine.
I love this show, again, but it's not perfect. It's okay to admit its mistakes.
@@davemccombs Although I can agree to an extent. Sopranos (to me) seems to be the only TV show flaws seem to work in itself, not every storyline got wrapped up which left viewers on the edge of their seats. Always wondering about what happens next, it happens that many times that not once during my first viewing could I predict anything major which is a rarity for me.
@@davemccombs
I didn't understand exactly what you are trying to convey but if we are talking about Sopranos not tying up loose threads then it's absolutely not a bad thing and neither bad writing. It takes few seconds of screen time to show Jimmy Altieri was really a rat or to show Russian lying dead in the woods or to show Ralph indeed burnt the stables. But either of these doesn't add anything of importance to the show. In fact not giving these things creates this lingering ambiguity over the show which reflects the ambiguity of real life, without harming the show in any way. It also makes sense from storytelling perspective since our pov characters don't know it so we don't know it.
That’s how death is. You’re left forever with what could have been and everything left unsaid.
The show is a masterpiece. Livia being around longer wasn't going to change that.
Maybe it wouldn’t have but we don’t know for sure, that’s why it’s the greatest mystery!
Agree
my vibe. I hate to think how it would have went if we didn't get 6B.
@Mark Green you're crange bro
@Mark Green bro sit the fuck down
You’re theory was proven to be correct. On “Talking Sopranos” Podcast Episode #28 Michael Imperioli admits that David did indeed plan to have Livia testify in court against Tony for the airline tickets. Can only imagine how it would turned out if she was still alive for season 3. Great video.
PS: He discusses the airline tickets plot at 1:00:00 mark. Enjoy.
And Livia 'singing' would have made her an almost literal Soprano...
I love that podcast. All cast and crew, no phony journalists asking the same damn questions!
@@michaelotis223 agreed
Thank you.
I mean, David Chase said that was his plan a decade ago. That wasn't a big reveal. OP didn't predict it, he just thinks the show would have been better. Which has not been proven.
As disappointing as it is that Tony never got to have a real send off with Livia, that episode with her funeral is some of the best shit that The Sopranos has to offer.
Also the weird shadow she has over the rest of the show is perfect. Shows that even after she’s gone, she haunts Tony’s psyche. I’m sure Chase would’ve kept that in anyways, but having Tony never really have a cathartic blow-up with his mother makes it even darker and creepier that she has such a hold on him from beyond the grave.
I feel like it was appropriate for the show because it’s so emblematic of real life. We often don’t get climactic send offs or confrontations. Things more likely fizzle out or fade away as opposed to a grand explosion. As Livia says herself: “It’s all a big nothing.”
It’s a shame that Nancy Marchand passed away, she was an incredible actress. But honestly, I think the show only got better throughout season 3 to 4. Not because Livia was no longer in it, but because the “extra” plot lines he mentions in the video were super interesting and made the show a blast to me. Plus Livia never really died, as you mentioned; her memory impacted the show until the last episode.
@@MrGrass97 Exactly. Chrissy’s death is real,y similar, even if we do see his death on camera
She waits for him in hell or at least in his dream/coma hell.
Chris' stoned monologue at the funeral reception was classic! Anyone who has ever tried to pull off not being high in public can identify with this scene.
Man, whatever happened to Paulie and Patsy? Their whole family was taken out. Wonder where they went? Maybe Paulie joined New York, I mean Carmine senior always spoke highly of him.
He may have spoke highly of him,but he didn't know Paulie from his plate of spaghetti or wtf ever it was when Paulie said hello to him.
Paulie went NY and got hit by a trolley
Fucking queeahs
Patsy was rewarded by New York for telling Butchie's guy - where to find Tony.
@@mscarolynnigro Terrible theory
The greatest mystery is what Little Carmine's role in the war was. I think he was a mastermind of the whole thing.
I agree
He knew with a change in leadership the fighting would start. He stepped back and let everyone else kill each other. Then he stepped up and in.
Pure Kino did a video on him
The airlines tickets whatever happened there.
WHATEVER HAPPENED THERE?
Connaught 👍🏻👍🏻
I'll tell you what happened! That piece of shit Death killed Nancy without any provocation or whatsoever!
@@videolad3057 fine baii but when me and the shligo lads are taking ur 100 euro and is200 I won't be Irish 😘
Ralph without a doubt killed pie o my
Of course. He was fire happy and and evil fuck
Hmm. My gut agrees. Well my head agrees too and they definitely made it seem like he did. I for some reason have doubts though.
Its pretty much clear.
Someone mentioned to me the other day that Paulie might have killed Pie O my
@@mikimiyazaki no all the horse references conflating the dead girl in Pio my like kid is a thoroughbred and the chompers on that girl etc. go to show it really didn’t matter Tony was really killing him for killing the girl subconsciously
I don't understand the mystery here. She died, couldn't testify and so the case was barely worth pursuing. As far as Tony's relationship with her, it's made very clear that NOTHING changed. In fact, the show is MORE interesting, having characters die randomly, as ppl do in real life.
I understand that we don't know what David Chase's original future plot was but this isn't the "show's biggest mystery" ... The show is what we were showN so an actual mystery would be ... How did it really end?
didnt pussy mention it to lip the fbi agent and he said tony wouldn't be stupid enough to use it so it was a dead end
Yes, but this video is more about if she didn't die, what would have happened.
This isn't a mystery involving the shows world. It's a mystery involving our world behind the scenes of the show. But I agree, the fact that she died randomly had its own interesting affect on the show.
Would Adrianna live to marry Chris had she simply got a lawyer?
Sil was a made man. Adrianna wasnt. Simple as that
Her biggest mistake was not telling Chris the first chance she had. If she had been forthcoming they would have gotten it sorted out.
Would she have lived if the fbi didnt bully her
@@cavemanzach9475 exactly. That’s what I always thought. If she had come clean in the beginning before Matush killed that big dude, she would’ve lived.
She most likely would die in some other way. She was in a position of a lot of danger in the first place. That's just my opinion.
There is a simple answer to this question uttered by Livia herself. “Never you mind”
So sad knowing Livia was based on David Chase’s real mother 😢
I was ready for her to go. I don’t know how much more I could’ve handled of the mother story line.
I agree. it was good for the storyline that she died. Tony had to grapple with those feelings for the rest of his life.
“Oh…. the mother now.”
I've always felt that the first two seasons of The Sopranos were the best and that the show, as great as it was in its entirety, did suffer to a degree qualitatively over the last four seasons. And yet I've never been able to identify what explains my feelings. The absence of Nancy Marchand and the way her death impacted the show is definitely an idea worth exploring.
I did have signals of them losing sight of what this show is later in the seasons but nonetheless, the way it turned out was better though than any show that starts to lose focus later on. They made a nothing out of something and made it blossom cause this show is still talked about in a good way less than the bad
I got the HBO Max app, and let me tell you something: I actually watched the Sopranos for the first time in forever and my Dad's attitude in his last few months was just like Livia's. I couldnt tell you how much, in that respect, I related to Tony Soprano for the first time ever. I loved the show when I was in High school, I really got to watching it when it was winding down, but still loved even more on the re-watch. Honestly if you did a version of season 3 where Nancy Marchand lived that would be an interesting watch.
I thought it was the therapy scenes that made it so different and successful
It really isn’t one particular thing. The therapy and the mother-son relationship fit into a bigger idea of humanizing and de-dramatizing this mob boss while also still being a great mob drama. That’s why the show was such a success
@@Devin0835 Fair, thanks for the reply
The therapy scenes meant less and less as the show progressed.
@@pizza7738 Makes you wonder if that was a result of Livia’s death!
Nancy Marchand dying very nearly sunk season 3. They had to do emergency rewrites and he apparently told people he (Chase) was up all night nonstop nearly a week.
I feel bad for Chase and the rest of the staff/cast, but there really is nobody to blame because cancer is a diçk.
And yet the third season is the best one
I'm kind of glad how it all worked out. Him not getting any closure on his mother was way more fitting for the show then him having a moment of closure of getting all his anger out because of her. There is no way a relationship as toxic as theirs would have any closure
i cannot lie, i love the sopranos, but i'm glad she passed before they started filming the third season. rest in peace to Nancy Marchand, i don't mean this in any sense where i'm saying i'm glad she died, but i hated her character in the show. i could barely stand the scenes with her in them, so when she was out of the show by the beginning of s3 i was so relieved that i would no longer have to suffer through her parts in the show
She was my mother in many ways. The realism was often too much
Carlo was going to testify against him mentioned in the last episode. The lawyer at the strip club in the last episodes mentioned the airline tickets were part of the ongoing rico case👍
I would have had Livia make Tony and his family sweat it out right up until she takes the stand. If Tony tries talking to her prior to her testifying, id have Livia play up her dementia / old age. But overall for Tony and the viewer i would have them thinking it could go either way. Then on the witness stand we see Livia be who she is, which is an old school mafia wife. She would get up on the stand and show that shes always kept her wits and shows up the prosecution. They drop all charges or find tony not guilty and tony finally realizes that A.) His mother truly does love him and B.) This is the only way she can show it because of her flaws. This gives Tony some peace and as the family goes out (or has a party at the house) for Tony getting off on the charges, Livia collapses or has some kind or stress induced heart attack. season 3 ends with her clinging to life and on the verge of death but Tony is unsure how to feel. Or like hes feeling devastated and broken up but also some relief. Then, depending on the shows direction the writers decisions they can figure out what they plan on doing with Livia going forward.
Did they ever consider hiring a new actor to fill the role of Tony’s mother? I think Nancy was so embedded into the hearts and minds of us all that it would not work to substitute in a new actor. Thoughts?
Agree with you 100% Nancy has such a distinct look and personality that could not be replicated, we saw actor changes on the show but never with major characters for this reason.
@Rens Victor Father Phil, Tony’s sister, Pussy’s wife, Christopher’s mom to name a few.
@@Devin0835 then you have actors playing other people when they would go on to be main characters, like vito being in the pastry shop when Christopher shoots the guy in the foot.
@@kamehameharem Are there other instances of that?
Im relieved they didnt. It was ok for a minor character like Barbara, tonys sister but id have hated any semi major character being replaced.
Livia’s spirit lives on after her death throughout the entire series
Sure, I think the Livia story could have had a more climactic finish but one of the thing's I appreciate about the Sopranos and the shows it inspired is that sometimes there isn't a big climax. Not only is it truer to life but when you do get a big climax to a story arc it feels more satisfying.
I would of been sad if we didn’t get pine barrens
Greatest episode ever i think.
Yep. Not knowing for sure about that poor bastard’s fate is the best part. If there had been something definitive later on or whatever would’ve ruined it man.
I guess we’ll never know his fate. One thing for sure though, his house look like shit
I appreciate your take on what could've happened, it's well thought out. That being said I dont think it couldve ever played out that way. Livia was miserable and nobody ever (except maybe svetlana) got on her good side. Her character was simple yet brilliant, a black hole flying through the middle of a very important circle, sucking in everything that got too close. But, as Bobby says "who the fuck really knows huh?"
Thanks for the good content!
Great job dude. You have the makings of a varsity UA-camr.
Shinebox.
Gabagool.
Varsity Athlete.
_ was a made man, and _ wasn't. There was nothing we could do.
nope
My theory? Livia would have spent the entire season basking in the reparations her son made, only to leave him under the impression that she was still gonna testify anyways. The kicker? she's old school as fuck. No way she would have talked to the feds for anything. She would have played up the dementia and gotten out of it.
I firmly believe that they adapted Livia's storyline for Junior. They were tactful enough to abandon the airline ticket storyline, but Tony's strained relationship with Junior combined with his mental decline was a huge part of the back-half of the show. It would have been very different if Tony was watching his mother fade before his eyes.
This, but I think Chase would've had her die later in the season, making it ambiguous as to whether or not she would actually testify or not. Chase never liked clear cut answers, even S1 it can be debated - Was Livia FULLY aware she was plotting her son's death, or was it that she was developing dementia and plotting JOHNNY'S death and her increasingly confused mind conflated husband and son?
It'd be a very Chase like move to build up an arc as to whether or not she's gonna testify, Tony doing all he can to win back her love in the hopes she won't....And then she just dies. And neither Tony nor we know what she would've actually done, leaving Tony right back at the start, having mixed emotions over his mother.
@@Bklyn93 this is a clever idea too. Too bad chase is a smug fuck and doesn't like being asked about stuff like this because 20 years later it would be cool to get some insight into his creative process
As much as I loved Livia as a character, I think I preferred the show after her death. Her and Tony's relationship not being the central focus of the show allowed the writers to breathe and fill in the world of the Sopranos in a way that felt very realistic and satisfying to me. In my opinion, all the additional characters you mentioned that got increased screen time had great arcs and added to the lore of the show so well. A lesser show wouldn't have known how to handle the death of a character central to the storyline of an entire season. Your video honestly made me respect the later seasons more, knowing that the storylines were written under a crunch.
I have always wondered how different the show would of been had Nancy lived.
Yeah dude I think this really works as what season 3 probably would’ve looked like. What I disagree with is the idea that the show wasn’t as good after 2, honestly, for me it really becomes one of the greatest shows after season 2...and that’s because we have all this weight from 1 and 2, having been mostly concluded, to anchor us in the reality and history of the show. 1 and 2 are the tightest plotted seasons of the show and act as a foundation for the grand ambiguities and experimental directions and detours into facets of American life they decided to explore. Further, the death of Livia before this plot line can come to fruition also works as the perfect bitter irony and anti-climax the show indulges in as a reflection of the absurdity and any-climax of life. It’s in Livia’s death that we get to explore the theme that I personally think is one of the Sopranos strongest: the spiritual. No other shows of its calibre really deal in the idea of life after death or ghostly hauntings or even alternative lives lived on the cusp of death. Hell, most other top US shows usually exist in a world where the spirit fundamentally does not exist - see the Wire and Deadwood and even BoJack Horseman.
But in the Sopranos, the spirit world does sorta exist: even if it’s solely in someone’s mind it’s given weight because we see and live it with the characters...and the key to inviting us into that spirit world is the death of Livia. See how all the spirits come out to play at her wake : big pussy in the mirror, the stranger on the staircase, the guy in the cemetery...almost signposting the show’s trajectory of eventually having Tony on the brink of life and death, as embodied by a family gathering in a beautiful lodge, and who comes to invite him in? His mother. I’m of the opinion that the ghost of Livia is more powerful than the living one. Alive, there’s always a potential future, always another bout...but dead, she becomes the impossible reconciliation, the itch that’s never scratched and we watch Tony ultimately fail in his quest for therapy and finish the series right where he started: talking about his unresolved issues with his mother. Unresolved yes, because of their personalities, but also, fundamentally, because she died. And not dying in the properly plotted way you describe is almost better because it’s more realistic. Life doesn’t end when the arc naturally would nor is it ever as brilliantly poetic as the scene you described...it just ends. Suddenly. And all the potential goes for a future and it’s just those left behind who are haunted by that life. It’s the hauntings of people we knew that remind us of the inherent fear that we too will die and likely haunt others after us. And I think that sort of philosophising is only actively encouraged by the show in later seasons due in part to Livia’s unexpected death.
So I went on tangents a bit there lol but I hope I made some sense. I think your plotting is spot on for how it would’ve played out and I am sad that we never got to see that scene in Livia’s bedroom as you described cos it would’ve been brilliant.
Much appreciated! I just want to clarify I don’t want you to think I meant the show goes downhill or anything in later seasons. In fact my top 3 favorite episodes all come within Seasons 3-6 (Pine Barrens, Long Term Parking, and Whitecaps). Like you pointed out the seasons weren’t as tight as they were in first two seasons and wasn’t as near perfect either as most of the shows flaws, and common gripes came within Season 3 on. I do see where your coming from though, and the show continued to be great even despite of this blow (which just adds to the shows legacy). Livia’s death is certainly something that never fully goes away, as her spirit is there and continues to haunt the show. I wanted to come up with something believable, and satisfying while not changing the show too much because why would anyone want to do that? If you want I can send you an Episode outline I made for this alternate Season 3. Let me know if your interested!
@@Devin0835 aw dude I would be super interested in reading that!
Don’t worry I get that you don’t think it goes downhill - that was poor wording on my part - I guess it comes down to personal preferences. I think I prefer that unfocused, esoteric and sort of meditative storytelling with sudden bursts of plot development as opposed to the more streamlined and properly crafted storytelling of seasons 1 and 2. Like, I enjoy a bit of fat or slight dips in quality if the highs are even greater in response. If you get me.
stranger on the staircase?
@@Aloysius2113 in Livia’s wake scene there’s a weird moment - as they begin to ‘reminisce’ about Livia - that a strange man can be seen lingering on the staircase behind Tony. He looks over and then walks up the stairs. Probably an extra trying to get out of shot but, keeping it in, adds to the already eerie atmosphere of the wake and works well alongside the shot of Pussy in the mirror to convey how close to the spirit world we are right now.
@@Devin0835 hey! Any chance you’ve still got that series outline?
Dude, please buy a new mic. It sounds like you recorded this on a condenser microphone.
I feel the character died at the right time. She was already becoming repetitive and annoying. The tickets thing was her last big hurrah before she too descended into the necessity of storyline repetition.
I had to work with what I had at the time. Mic is much better now.
I know she died in real life but as I’m talking about her character not Nancy Marchand I was happy when Livia died on the show I couldn’t stand her lol
condenser microphones are fine. sound-treat the room best as possible and learn how to edit/enhance audio properly. also a few other acoustic principles like microphone placement. that does not mean that a new mic would not hurt. but nothing is wrong with a condenser mic.
Simply remarkable series. Nothing like it, nor will there ever be again.
Given the circumstances, they pulled this show out of the proverbial fire when Nancy died. It could’ve easily fallen apart, but they managed to save it; mostly by her spirit, her PRESENCE, was never out of the spotlight for long. It’s kind of like how your own loved-ones still affect you, even though they’ve passed on.
Nancy Marchand was FANTASTIC, tho. I wish she could’ve been there for the whole ride. =\
I would love for you to do different versions of how the story could go because I just cannot get enough Sopranos. Even if you were the one creating it, the more the better. I love the show how it was but I also enjoyed watching your version of the missing storyline. You did a good job. Thanks
I think your story was great, but I also think that Lyvia's ghost was haunting the story and it's characters from the grave in a sense - which also works really well. You can still feel her presence hanging over the story.
The best seasons were 3 through 5 though. Season 6 was great, too, but so dark and depressing that it hurts.
Great job, never thought about it, sopranos is and will always be my favorite show. Just have 1 advice, you need to get a decent mic dude, but besides that great video! :)
Great video fam love your content thought about this my self wish found ya sooner
Ralphie did kill Pie, he says 'It was a fuckin' horse!' I know that he was devastated over his son's accident, but his callous response tells me that the writers wanted us to believe he did. Tony believed it.
Great work on the video!!
Livia’s character was the perfect antagonist and Marchand’s acting was brilliant. I’m sure they at least would have considered a different actress after Marchand’s passing but it wouldn’t have felt right. Same way the old Dallas TV series tried a season subbing Donna Reed for Bel Geddes in the role of Ellie Ewing. In part we have such strong feelings for the character because of the tremendous acting. Better let the story line take a more organic turn than forcing a new actress on the audience.
One of the biggest mysteries is who put that note in tonys hospital room.. the wajbi saying or whatever lol "we go about in pity for ourselves...."
That’s a good point.... we never got confirmation who really did it. I kinda assumed it was Janice or Meadow
@@bamafan7353 Melfi
Watching season 3 can’t get enough
Livia Soprano would have started a crew with young punks who were itching to make a name for themselves. They would've tried to rob the Bing against Livia's orders where one would be shot and killed, but not before shooting Georgie Santorelli which results in him going into a coma. Not wanting to cause further trouble, Livia would have given away the location of the escaped young punk resulting in him (said punk) being shot in the back of the head by Paulie.
The greatest mystery is who the hell was that scary ass woman on the stairs in Tony’s dream.
Livia makes me laugh more than anyone.
I didn't catch how funny her crocodile tears were until the 3rd watching
I think apart of what made season 1 feel so focused is that David Chase originally wrote Sopranos as a screenplay for a movie. The movie actually lacked alot of the peripheral plotlines seen in season 1 and mainly focused on Tony,Livia and Junior's conflict. Anyway great video
Gotta be honest I don't really watch enough Gameplay Commentary videos anymore for your channel in it's current state to appeal to me but I would really like to see more analytical stuff from you.
This is just false. The Tony, Livia and Junior conflict was not mainly focused in season 1, it may have been the main storyline but saying it had more focus in order storylines of the Sopranos is false, every other season after focused on consequences and linearity so much more than season 1.
@JayoJay where is your sources for this information? Cause junior was the secondary protagonist for pretty much all the seasons so saying he could have had a bigger seems odd, it basically means he could have taken away screen time from other characters.
@@lampad4549 David Chase originally envisioned the show as a movie about a mobster in therapy because of issues with his mother during the backdrop of a big gang war. The therapist would help Tony to see that his mother was the one pulling the strings and wanted him dead. When Tony would go to kill her, she would already be dead. That same plot was the blueprint in Season 1. So yes, it was the main focus and a very concrete story in terms of who were the "protagonists" and "antagonists". The other seasons were not a straight forward in terms of plot. Everything that we saw in Season 2 was a direct effect of what happened from this plot line.
@@lampad4549 Same goes for Livia, we just don't know what her role would have been had she been healthy. She could have very well taken screen time away from other characters. THAT IS WHY IT'S THE SHOWS GREATEST UNANSWERED QUESTION! The whole dynamic of the show in future seasons could have been very different because of it.
@@lampad4549 m.ua-cam.com/video/_7jgaAfWS64/v-deo.html 7:50-9:30.
GREATEST SHOW/MOVIE OF ALL TIME. LITERALLY THE BEST EVER.
“And he begins to smuggle her” I almost died when I heard that. Not sure why I found it so funny, but I did.
Great video for the most part. Audio was quite bad, assume you used a laptop mic. Try look into getting a focusrite and an sm57, will help a loooot. Bout 300 dollars maybe.
As for the thoughts that you had, I really enjoyed them, thought provoking and insightful. I hope you make more videos like this, I'm sure you're followers will explode if you keep plugging away.
Thanks for the video dude, I'll be watching more in future
I didn't realize until years later that Jim was played by a little blond kid I went to junior high school with in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, named John Costelloe. Joseph R. Gannascoli, who played Vito, also grew up and went to school in the neighborhood (as did a half dozen other actors from the show). I also found out, years later, that John Costelloe had killed himself, in 2008, a couple of years after his time on The Sopranos. I don't know the whole story and I'm not sure if anyone, outside of his family does.
Wondering if this should be a trend you should challenge other sopranos UA-camrs to finish the livia story! I had fun listening to yours and thinking how I would do it! Awesome vid thanks for the hard work!
I think the scene where Tony stands up to Livia in defense of Janice is one of the series' best. It exemplifies the bunker mentality that develops between people stuck with and repeatedly subjected to the insults and judgment of a toxic personality.
When Janice put music her mom liked, Livia got choked up & said “My children” & held Janice’s hands. Idk if Janice really wanted her approval or was being manipulative. Tony killing his mom would’ve been rotten bc as bad as we know Tony is, that’s the worse.I can’t watch other episodes bc he wanted to kill Paulie, Hesh, & killed Chris who he supposedly loved.
A witness for a federal Rico case involving the Mafia would not be staying in there home but would be hidden away. In the Godfather 2 they hid a witness on a military base
6:21 seasons 3-Sex are my favorite
This really underlines just how amazing David Chase and the writers were because I genuinely feel as if Season Three is the best season without this storyline that we were robbed of.
Am I the only one who didn’t even catch the CGI head the first go round? That made it good for me. Specially given the year they produced it.
"And he begins to smuggle her" hahaha great misspeak.
Thank you for the video and theory. I liked it
Damn bro, respect. Drop a really good video essay, get 102k views, and then go right back to music uploads without a second thought. Brave man you are
The character... to me... and what I heavily thought was what the show was getting at... was that Livia was bi polar and senile. I didn’t care for the plot besides the psychology of Tony. I still don’t think she really understood what she was doing. I always thought this was the intention. The character does not come off as a master manipulator with a plan. She’s just manipulative and not at her own will.
Have you not seen her conversations with Junior? Sanctioning a hit on brenden for one
The chechin interior decorator hands down
The show was so much better without her. On my 2nd-3rd time watching the series i started fast forwarding through her scenes
David Chase’s inception for the show was he felt like his mother was killing him and wanted to write about that.
Huge testament to the show and the writers that they could keep the plot moving after losing such a great actor like Nancy Marchand, who I'm pretty sure was meant to be the main "villain" of the series had she been around for its entire run. I don't even find myself thinking about all of the storylines we probably missed out on until I come across a topic like this one -- that's how good of a job they did
They really did Nancy Marchand dirty with that CGI, she was a good actress and deserved better than for her final "perfomance" to just be a bunch of dubbed over lines from previous scenes. It was probably the worst decision made over the course of the entire show
No one can disagree
I actually prefer David Chase’s story line with Livia passing before the trial of a stroke. As vindictive as she was, she would never testify against Tony and she would have used the fake dementia to avoid testifying against him. Livia was too underhanded to do it herself, she preferred to manipulate others to get rid of Tony, like her convincing Corrado that Tony was the de facto boss behind his back. The story line was just as good after Livia passed. In fact, she was such a deplorable mother, we couldn’t wait till she was gone and we don’t blame Tony for feeling relieved she was gone. The first 2 seasons was only a backstory to understand how complicated a person Tony really was. We can empathize with his feelings and relate to him not withstanding his crime boss killings.
I was starting to feel that Livia would testify against Tony given how she wants him DEAD. But you made me remember she is a mob widow and would never rat.
For a moment there I was like holy shit this guy made a 20 minute video about what happened to Johnny Cakes, that’s insane🤣
i imagine shes all set up to testify and then something at the trial happens that insults her pride like maybe someone imply she shouldve been in a nursing home, or maybe they bring someone to the trial a la godfather 2 who she doesnt wanna snitch in front of maybe like an old mob wife friend from back in the day, anyways something makes her change her mind and she delivers to the prosecutor her iconic catchphrase “i dont know what youre talking about”
At the end, Butchie was the biggest enigma of the whole series. He was straight up Phil's guy pushing Tony to the limits, then all of a sudden when they're about to have the NJ mob crushed, he was like the Grinch and grew a heart and suddenly did a 180 and was in Tony's camp. Even giving him the okay to take out Phil.
Butch let Tony take out Phil - then stepped up to take Phil's place as boss and end Tony and his whole crew.
Butchie was in the perfect spot at the perfect time. I loved how he just totally threw up his hands and said f*** this. And took a few steps to be on top himself. Phil never appreciated how dangerous that guy was.
@@jpmnky We got the one Butchie in New York, and then that pygmy thing over in New Shinebox
Well...they were gangsters. Butch made a gangster move to get rid of Phil because Phil had become a thorn in the side of his entire family.
@@jpmnky If you think about it - Tony's crew was always undisciplined, completely dysfunctional and a liability to anyone who did business with them. In the real world, they would have been exterminated in season one.
She died and the story went away. Done. Madone. Who would've wanted to watch Tony in a courtroom for a whole season?
I wish so bad we were able to have more Livia scenes so I didn't have to suffer from the terrible Meadow at college storyline! Uggghhh I wish tha lord would take me, it's all a big nothin!
Greatest mystery is where all Livia's money from Johnny Boy is.
I swear I was about to change the station with a comment...in the beginning...you got me
It's better because he had no resolve with her, no cathartic blow up with her or anything. She just died randomly like most people do.
Livia was a terrific part of the Sopranos. She was greatly missed, but I don’t think it screwed up the series at all. But it would’ve been darn interesting to see what would’ve happened if she’d been around.
David Chase said he was going to bring back the Russian and have him show up in Slava's office but he had a head wound and had no memory of what happened
hey that johnny cakes line was a nice addition 👑
macroeconomics, chartalism is a theory of money that argues that money originated with states' attempts to direct economic activity rather than as a spontaneous solution to the problems with barter or as a means with which to tokenize debt, and that fiat currency has value in exchange because of sovereign power to levy taxes on economic activity payable in the currency they issue
LOVE the theory DevinfromNJ2000!
Yes, by all means give us your episode by episode alternate season 3 outline :)
1.) The Russian was found by a group of Boy scouts he died due to the blood loss and Extreme cold...
2.)Ralph did not kill Pie of my...
3.)Furio went back home to Italy after tony found out...
4.) Tony was killed by guy in The members only jacket...
Tony says about furio "If the right guys see him [in Italy] he'll be fuckin dead!" So he very well could've died by the end of the show
Lemme fix the title for you. “The Greatest Sopranos Speculation.” What fucking mystery
Honestly I loved the way Livia died on the show, for me, the episode she dies is one of the best from all the seasons, but that's just me
Personally, I was relieved when livia passed away (in the show of course, God rest Nancy Marshawns soul) and I liked the show more once her character was gone. I just really couldn't stand her character. Every time I rewatch the show its like a big hurdle for me and I feel once that part with her is over, im over the hump and it smoothes out. Weather she stuck around longer or it remained the same, it still would have been a great show, I mean it just would of been one more season of her, then the show and plot would of still had to continue somehow and im not sure how different it would actually be after season 3 if she lived through it.
Eithet way, I love the show but it can be so bittersweet, I really miss the 90s/early '00s sometimes.
Neat breakdown. Thanks.
I have to say first, I usually don't leave comments for the same reason I don't post on facebook....because there's already enough people that feel the need to share their every thought. I'm commenting now because the part about Tony going to kill his mother only to realize she died in her sleep would have been some of the best television ever made. I can't tell you how great that idea it let's Tony find his way off the hook, but without having to go to that ultimate extreme of killing his mother. Seeing how HBO apparently fought David chase over Tony killing that first guy he strangled and how the main character can't do something like that), I can't see them being any better about the guy killing his own mother. If anything, I think a lot of fans of the show would have been put off by the idea the main character was cold blooded enough to kill his own mother, even if he is a mobster. But awesome stuff, man.
CGI Livia is one of the most bizarre TV moments in history
The biggest mystery is who ordered the hit on Tony in the end.
It was the Vipers!!!
Who you know it was a hit ???
Follow up video coming very soon! (And yes, audio quality will be better lol)
Can't wait
Any date set or what just wondering
@@nathangannon4496 Hopefully within the next week. I’ve been busy
Omg I knew it! The Olivia scene , the CGI!
I don’t think the Sopranos would’ve been drastically better if Livia’s story continued longer. Her shadow over Tony, and even AJ, was really great, and honestly her death was kind of used as a twist, since we were expecting the FBI to get some real progress against Tony with the Airline tickets. I think the writer’s response to her unfortunate death was masterful. But you’re right, we’ll never really know which one would be better.
Great video though, once you get to the end of the series you kinda forget that they had all these plans that didn’t end up happening.
I know this is half unrelated, but I wish we saw more of Barbara. I understand why she is gone for the majority of the show, but I wish we saw more of her. I also agree, we all have a Livia in our lives, and my Livia is my own Nana.
I find AJ and Meadow's storylines to be incredibly boring. I also find that AJ is impossible to like.
No matter how good this show is, these stories are not real. Sopranos was the masterpiece of David Chase, and arguably the best tv show, just think how much work he put on to create someting spectacular like this and he takes a big risk by keeping Nancy Marchand working. I admire David Chase for granting her last wish.
That's pretty damn good,Mr.Chase would be very proud
Greatest show to ever grace a television