The Great Book of Amber (spoiler review) by Roger Zelazny
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
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Wait....the only pre-1980 books that Matt likes is Lord of the Rings?
So, no Robert Howard, no Lieber, no Alan Dean Foster (the early years), no Dragonriders of Pern, no early Moorcock (Elric/Corum/Hawkmoon)?
Yeah, I can see why the Amber books were a no-go, then. It's a shame, there's some great fantasy out there that was written before 1980, but taste is a tricky thing, especially when it comes to fantasy and science-fiction....
Everyone's different but I absolutely loved this series. I read it back in the 70s 80s. I enjoyed the Finovar Trilogy and the Thomas Covenant series as well. All old but I enjoyed them all. Oh, Patricia McKillups the Riddlemaster of Hed is really good as well.
Same. I read 'Amber' in the 80s; I loved the Fionavar series, I read it when I was at U of T (early 90s) where part of the setting is based
Incredibly interesting video. I adore the Amber chronicles, but I understand why you bounced off of it. What's so interesting is that a lot of your complaints are actually part of why I love the books so much. For example, the whole thing of the protagonist hiding his amnesia being "too cute" is why it works. His sibling CAN tell he's on bullshit, but that's the expected norm for them. What causes them to assume he's a genius is that the situation is so absurd and unexpected that they can't guess why he's behaving the way he is, and if they can't even guess why he's on bullshit then there MUST be something he knows that they don't. Or the alternating between old style courtly speech and modern slang. It happens because these characters are ANCIENT. They've seen so many generations of mankind come and go and fade away that they're an amalgamation of everything they've experienced. There's a LOT of reading between the lines the reader is expected to do, and I understand that that's not for everyone, but man, it really works for me.
Wow. Did we even read the same books? I love the two Amber series, one of the few I've read twice. Even have the Amber Diceless RPG, which is... interesting.
Where to start? The characters are thousands of years old, are essentially immortal, and are on the level of superheroes or demi-gods. Yes, they can do amazing things. (Zelazny frequently writes about super powerful characters, just look at Lord of Light.) They are all family members so there will be some similarity but still there is enough difference between them. There are also lots of old grudges and interpersonal relationships going on that we aren't privy to.
Yes, Corwin starts with amnesia, apparently he's had it for a couple hundred years, but he loses that about half way through the first book so it's not much of a problem. The reason he can keep it a secret is because these family members all have many secrets and they are quite used to everyone hiding everything. Yes, most, probably all of them have been kings and queens and presidents, multiple times in other places. That's not what they want however. They want to be King/Queen of Amber. It's their home. Imagine growing up in Maine, you love it, it's home. Sure you can be King in Florida, or California, or Kansas or North Dakota, but it's not home and you don't care much. So I don't see that a plot hole.
Why do they have these powers? It's complicated but suffice it to say that Grandfather stole a piece of a god and with it created a huge design that sits in the cellars of Castle Amber. Walking that design, The Pattern, can either kill you or energize you enough to cross between the multiverse worlds, the Shadows. Thus the multiverse is open to them and they use that ability wildly. Plus there is magic and psychic powers, high and low technology and the Trump cards (communication and teleportation devices.) Anything, any world, any possibility is out there in the shadows somewhere.
Don't remember anything about dinosaurs and cars driving backwards. Been a few years since I last read it, but I simply don't recall any of that. I'll take your word for it that those are there.
Zelazny can be a wild and crazy writer, again look at Lord of Light. There is much in the series which is wild and crazy and I don't say it's all great. But the good outweighs the bad, for me.
I think the dinosaur thing was when Corwin ran into Random and they were pattern walking to get back to Amber.
You explaining those things doesn't help anyone at all...
@@tassicron
That's my guess, but even then...
@@tonkabeanicecream5698
It may help some. Trying not to spoil anything.
@@douglasdea637 you hsve spoiled s lot
The unrefined prose mirrored the spirit of a bygone age, where knowledge and communication were arcane arts. The strange and wondrous concepts danced to the seventies' cosmic beat. Though the series' time has passed, like sands through an hourglass, it briefly captured the quirks of a vanished era-a testament to the written word's power to transport us beyond our realm.
Your prose has me entranced. Go write a book and I'll be all over that ARC.
I reread this series every couple of years and have since the early 1980s when the second five were being published. NINE PRINCES IN AMBER is my all-time favorite book.
Apparently this book was Niel Gehmans inspiration for writing
Do you think Matt will like Gaiman? I don’t think so.
Yeah he should stay away from Gaiman
So lastly, led a lot of young authors into writing. I’m not surprised guy and inspiration. So as he actually spent time as a friend to Pierce Anthony. Let’s hope this guy stays away from trying to critiqueXanth!
Sorry about the typos. I was losing my temper with this guy when I dictated that into my phone. I meant to say that Zelazny had led a lot of young authors into writing. And keep this guy awayfrom Pierce Anthony’s Xanth series.
This is one of the best series ever written. I'm sad you couldn't get a grasp of it, but thank you for your review
Tis true… this is the best series ever written. 👍
Wow, I loved these books when I read them as a teen. Your review has made me want to reread them 😂.
Just found this video looking for reviews because I am currently reading this and just today I bought a second copy to lend to friends. I find this series to be both a mix of fairy tale, epic fantasy but written in a short Elmore Leonard like fun style and love that. I usually am not the hugest fan of first person writing but I dug this. Sorry to hear and enjoy your journey!
Weren't you the one who was hyping malazan for having dinosaurs with knife arms? Yet dinosaurs are an issue in this one? I don't get you bro.
My issue wasn't with dinosaurs rheme leges. The issue was the plot.
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews I'm not saying that was your main issue, just that series of comments struck me as odd.
'it was written SO long ago i can't connect with it'
well, good thing there is plethora of modern books about transvestite space pirates from the planet blorp you can connect with
clown
....wut
I stopped watching your video less than 2 minutes in it. I am honestly pity you. I miss a lot. Amber series is probably one of the most original fantasy series ever written. In terms of originality it is on the same level as LOTR of Gormenghast. But if anyone today could copy Tolkien or Gormenghast with more or less success, no one could copy Zelazny. Amber gives reader the most unique multiverse system and most believable fantasy god-like characters I ever red. Fantasy writers usually present to us readers regular humans as a characters. And 99 percent of them are not believable at all, they are functions in plot, not real creatures. But Korvin's family is written incredible real. You believe that if such eternal family exist - it will act exactly like that. Sorry, but one star for Zelazny is not sign that you have different tastes with me. It is sign that you unable see peace of art even if it put in front of you. In different parts of my life I reread Amber series thinking that this simple adventure will lost his appeal since I became older enough. Now I am in my 40s. And Amber shines same as before. I read probably thousands of books during my time and never encounter anything even a litt;e similar to this series. Honestly i do not believe you capable name anything more original, more "fantasy" than this series. Not even Vandermeer can beat it. Not even China Melville. And of course not the Ericson, Martin and Abercrombie whose probably you like a lot and who are obviously less talanted than Zelazny. They are dwarves in his shadow.
Lol I made in 10 words in and then didn't read it. I pity you pade this just for me and I don't even read what you wrote lol
Watching of your videos I can honestly say we don’t have the same taste. I like very little written after 1980. Amber was astounding to me. But this ain’t to criticize you. It’s just to say that good people can have different tastes. Keep reading and enjoying what you like.
OK, I wrote that request before I realized that the guy running the show was going to beat up on my Zelazny. Great book of Amber is the complete original 10 story collection. It does not have the Betancourt continuation. We don’t need it. True fans might enjoy Betancourt, but I am more interested in original 10 books which were fantastic! I had to read them one at a time back in the day and I had to wait until the talking book library recorded the next one before I could read it. It took forever. When I got great book of Amber on a CD it was amazing. I didn’t have to wait around for some buddy to decide that I had access to it. Now I can’t find the damn CD. I don’t wanna listen to this guy Moan P and whine about how miserable this long book is because if he didn’t know about Zelazny, he had no business undertaking such alarge Tome.
Very rude of you to call me a "whiner" because I happened to dislike a book you liked, all the while asking me for help.
But because I'm feeling nice...hop in the discord and I'll give you a link for where you can buy them all.
So you didn’t understand the books… Got it. Maybe you should read them again and pay attention.
I'm all in for everyone liking whatever and having tastes and different opinions, everything's cool in a democratic society. But I have the freedom to have the opinion that not enjoying the Amber chronicles equals knowing nothing about literature or about what is good or about what is fun.
I enjoyed the critique while I disagree with it. I happen to love this series though it isn't my favorite fantasy series. In fact, I'd say that the series really isn't fantasy at all, but it does contain a slew of fantasy motifs. It's more like old-style soft science fiction like J.G. Ballard, but even considering that, the series isn't necessarily sci-fi either. And, assuming it is fantasy, it isn't epic fantasy in the Tolkienian mode nor is it anti-Tolkienian like Moorcock's work. As far as I can tell, Zelazny wasn't influenced by The Lord of the Rings at all. Zelazny didn't write The Chronicles of Amber to critique or to emulate LOTR. And, if you were expecting a coherent magic system, which seems to be a hallmark of fantasy after the mid-80s, then you were very likely disappointed. The concept of coherent magic systems in fantasy didn't exist at the time just that concept didn't exist when Tolkien wrote The Lord of the Rings.
Also the series is very much a product of the time in which it was written. Moreover, Zelazny was never over-concerned with plot or with internal consistency with his stories. I've read quite a bit of Zelazny's prose, and he seemed to be more interested in exploring metaphysical and cosmological concepts, which lends a surreal aspect to his writing. That is most certainly an acquired taste.
And yet again it is shown that your taste and mine are negatively correlated. Nine Princes in Amber is a five-star book for me and the series is in my top 10 of all time. I'v e both series multiple times (including recently) and still love them.
FWIW, the background is explained in fascinating detail in later books in the series, but I'm not one to suggest that you have to read on to "get to the good stuff". If you don't like Zelazny's style from the first book, it's unlikely that will change later in the series.
Too bad it didn't work for you.
Same for me. Could you give your top10 series please?
@@yelisieimurai Top 10 Fantasy series (today; tomorrow will be different), in alphabetical order by author:
Vlad Taltos Stephen Brust
Five Gods World - Lois McMaster Bujold
Sharing Knife - Lois McMaster Bujold
Dresden Files - Jim Butcher
Garrett, P.I - Glen Cook
Midkemia - Raymond Feist
Super Powereds - Drew Hayes
Valdemar - Mercedes Lackey
Paksennarion - Elizabeth Moon
Guardians of the Flame - Joel Rosenberg
War God - David Weber
Amber - Roger Zelazny
(We are apparently using Base 12 today. 8-) I cut the list from 29 to 11; that's as good as I am going to do right now.)
Tolkien isn't on the list, because LotR was intended as a single book and his other books are not as enjoyable. So it's one great book, but only a good series.
Thomas Covenant isn't on the list because, even though it's very well written, I despise the protagonist. (And yes, I understand that I'm supposed to.)
Many other favorites of other readers don't make the list because they don't work as well for me as these do. There are many such authors whose works don't make that list of 29 series that I really love.
ETA: Dresden Files, which must be on any such list.
@@dougsundseth6904 thank you. I read only Zelazny from the whole list really. And I even never heard of some authors from the list.
Ah too bad. It's been so long since I read these I hardly remember anything, but I do remember enjoying them. On to the next one.
Have you tried The Count of Monte Cristo? I recommend the Bill Homewood audio version as I DNFed when sight reading, but he does a fantastic job with the pronunciations and different accents, so he makes it much easier to follow.
I heard only great things about tcomc! Can't wait to read it!
great recommendation, how you been man? i used to see you all the time in the green hand's lives about asoiaf!
@@victariondrownedmemory9886 Not great. It’s been a rough year and a half in a couple different ways. I’d still be there if they were still having them, but I hope they’re doing well. Maybe they’ll start doing some content when the new HotD season drops.
I love this series so much.
😂 You were a *little* riled up, Matt! 😂
Man I'm so surprised you were missing out on an amazing story and a series. The big book of Amber is really just two storylines the first five books was written in the '70s or the '80s and then about 7 years later he finished with the last five books The first books are the father and the second books are the son of the main character. And yes these were written at a time when there weren't full comprehensive compilations of books so each book is in itself a complete story and he doesn't always follow chronologically how the you know the previous books worked but I think that's some of the charm of the last name and the Amber series I would give this a second chance please
no point of any self judgment about what you like and what not, there is such a range of different books and sub genres that each can find enough of what they like , life is too short to spend reading something you don't like
Ocarina of Time holds up. I'm playing Majora's Mask on Switch right now and am surprised at how easily I got back into it after decades. It controls pretty good.
I love how honest you are 😂
Me too
You really would've hated books 6-10
Hahaha no lie!!
I loved them when I read them. I admit I enjoyed the first 5 more than the second 5 books.
I find it odd that someone who reviews fantasy books has so much trouble with the idea of parallel worlds.
I would not force you to read something you dislike but you read the first book and stopped. Now you are complaining that you don’t understand what’s happening. It’s like reading the Fellowship of the Ring and complaining that the story leaves you hanging.
1* is too harsh for such beautiful book.
Btw I think third book is best in series. 4th is also very good.
Corwin vs. Eric fight in the end of first book is much better than any of Joe Abercrombie’s action scenes.
To each his own but I absolutely adore this series at least the first five, even rereading them they still hold up. Its going to be a difficult review to watch not going to lie.
Edited. Watched the review and I agree with you on most of the review. I still think its a fun series, one I can read as a way to turn my brain off.
Man you are pumping these reviews out like nothing
So I hate old books...so let me go on a rant of how much I hate this old classic that sold millions of copies. Geez
I really enjoy the fact that you're to5ally honest about th e books you don't enjoy. The constant positivity from other booktubers is exhausting. One of the Many reasons I subscribe to your channel.
And I enjoyed this series so it's not just bandwagon stuff. Love the channel and content.
If you can't wrap your little brain around Amber, I can't imagine any of your other reviews are worth a shyte either. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and not everyone "gets" Zelazny but 1 star? LOL. The Amber series won numerous awards and is largely responsible for George Martin's Game of Thrones. George is a big fan.
But then, he is himself a great writer and actually has an imagination. If you don't have one of those, you will never like Zelazny's work. He doesn't spoonfeed the reader. A bit of brainwork is required.
The thing that I love about you is that you're an honest man, you don't compliment, if you hate something, you say it. And I love the fact that I agree with you all the time! I thought I was the only one who had these controversial opinions, but then I found your channel 😂 and I'm pretty much gonna trust your judgement on books that I haven't read yet
Quite interesting to hear your take on the events and themes given where you stopped. A lot of the plot "holes" do get filled, but if it's suffering to get to that, then that doesn't really help you to know in the abstract.
This was the perfect storm of all things that you hate in books!🤣
Hahaha, I did expect this. I'm sorry, though not surprised you did not vibe with it. For me personally, I just read the first one and I would not say it is brilliant at all. What I really liked was that its novelty. I expected nothing of the style, setting and type of events that I was thrown in. Based on the name and it being labelled as YA by goodreads and more classical fantasy I was expecting a sweet, good guys win book....
I read the first book when it came out. At the time I thought it was meh…. Didn’t continue with the series.
It’s not that uncommon for award winners not to stand up over time. At that time, I was heavily into SF, as were my friends. None of us would have ranked Zelazny that highly.
Your comparison to Malazan doesn’t work. You read, at the most, 20% of this series. How much of the Malazan world is explained by the end of Deadhouse Gates. It’s possible that everything you say is not explained gets explained. Remember, an important plot element in Gardens is the Azath House, which gets introduced as a kind of Deus ex Machina. I’ve read the series three times, and I still am not sure I understand Azath houses.
But... Ocarina of Time is still good tho.
Ocarina of time is a masterpiece
Wait... there are dinosaurs??
I was gonna really lay into you for not understanding a great work, not being able to account for time it was written and for confusing your own opinion with objectivity.
Then I read the first few pages again ...
Still this book is probably the first with the modern "marvel" style multiverse. Everything before that had multiverses a quantum or timetravel branch of our earth more or less. This is one is infinite in variation.
I know you aren't a big scifi fan but this is like a lot of scifi a big idea can carry the book when it has a lot of other literary flaws. I guess that doesn't work on you with scifi and its not working here.
Nah ocorina of time is still very playable
I agree wholeheartedly with you! I enjoy older fantasy but I could not get into Amber. Like you I read the first 2 stories in the book and gave up and got rid of the book.
I loved these books when I read them in my teens. Unfortunately, they do not hold up. I understand you not liking them. I didn't really when I tried them again recently. One thing though, in any review it is a bit unfair to complain about not getting answers to the how and why of things if you don't finish the book/series. Good luck on your next read!
I love the passion Matt shows for books he hates but also love the ones he adores ❤
I just read the first one (9 Princes) and I thought Zelazny was trying to mimic super hero comics. That turned me off, especially some of the fights. Agree with you on the bizarre mix of formal and slang dialogue. A little all over the place and I think this whole thing could benefit from a big edit. There were a few things that I liked though, so there is a small chance I will read the second book.
At the firing range of opinions you certainly dumped your mag in short order but when you hit the return target button that piece of paper was - immaculate -
I KNEW when this won the patron pick that it wouldn’t be your thing and that you’d likely figure that out by book two or three.
I DNF'd after book 2. I wanted to like this, because I loved Lord of Light by the same author, but these did not click with me. I think mostly my problem was finding the characters extremely obnoxious, especially the MC. He doesn't really seem like he's any better than the people he's fighting, they are all just snobby egotistical nobility that I don't really find interesting or appealing.
I already own the two SF Masterwoks omnibuses. I need to try this asap. Doesn't sound good. :D
I wonder how would you rate it against Elric saga by Moorcock. That one is extremely flawed and up and down but I fucking love it! This might be the same, might not.
I bet Matt will give Elric 2-3 stars.
Matt, keepin’ it real!
I tried reading the first book sometime in the early 80’s. It was a DNF for me. Didn’t hold my interest 😴
Lol. Why are the flaming roast vids so entertaining? I chuckled several times.
Aw man, that sucks. I guessed you would have a two stars for this book although I have NEVER even heard of this series. I hope your next book is better.
These videos give me hope in humanity and Booktube! 🔥
Man now I’m worried because I planned to check out Zelazny since I was told he has similar vibes to Simon Jimenez
Zelazny is a very good author, check by yourself. Don’t believe a Matt’s word. For him Gene Wolfe’s shadow of torturer, Blood Meridian, Hyperion are bad books.
I mean this in the most respectful way possible: when it comes to old books, Matt's opinion is completely invalid. He's admitted multiple times that he just doesn't like them. Don't let him discourage you from reading the classics like Zelazny, Wolfe, Le Guin, Howard, or even Tolkien. These are all incredibly beautiful writers with very distinct flavours to their works. Way too many books today feel like they could have been written by the same person, but not one of these guys feels remotely similar to the other.
This dude's reviews hold no weight in what is actually good, he's pretty narrow-minded when it comes to what he likes and doesn't like. Pretend you never watched this garbage video and go find out for yourself if you'll like this classic work.
Obviously he wasn’t planing on reading the entire thing, look at the little fake book at the beginning of the video.
It's called a kindle, lol.
My bad I forgot you perpetrate like you are a reader while listening to audiobooks. I guess acting like you are closing up a book you just finished reading is part of the act. Aaannnddd I’m done
@@ConnorWinn-f9s lol what are you talking about. I read this on Kindle, and that thing you see in the video is a kindle. It has a leather cover.
I don't pretend I read a book when I listen. When I listen I literally take my headphones off when the video starts.
Troll somewhere else bro
If I was trolling I would comment on how clueless or how compromised you are having kings of the wild and a 5 warrior angel book both in your top 10 all time. All credibility is lost right there.
It's ALMOST like different people have different opinions on what literature they enjoy! Such a silly concept!
I had a feeling you wouldn't like this. I think I said you'd give it a 2.
If you weren't so hung up on the writing and the amnesia, I would recommend continuing until book 5 at least, to finish the first story arch. Then you'd be in a better place to judge why it was so popular.
I think the reason why it's so highly acclaimed is that the underlying themes and ideas are mindblowing. Or at least they were at the time. But you dnf'd too early to get there and probably wouldn't ever be able to get past the superficial things. Oh well.
Haha nice review 😂 do you feel you would’ve liked this if you read it when you were 12?
We need more Matt rants
You just have to get to book 10, Matt. That's when things get good and it will all make sense. :)
I DNF’d the first amber book with only 25 pages remaining. Worst book ive ever almost read. Didn’t like anything about them.
You made it farther than I did. The second half of the first book was pretty egregious in telling instead of showing, which is a shame because the beginning of the book started off really strong.
I tried to give the second book a try, hoping it would get better. Made it to the point where Corwin slaps a woman for no reason before I gave up. I'm not sure what I was supposed to be taking away from those books, but when you dislike the protagonist more than the antagonist you've got a serious problem. One of the worst books I've ever read. Completely agree.
Read it as a kid and liked it.
Came back as an adult and DNF the first book
Don't you like Dune?? that's 1965
With this negative an opinion, I'm surprised you got through two books. But if you hated it this far, I don't think you'll find it gets more appealing. Books 6-10 aren't as good anyway.
I gotta give it to the Amber fans, they are respectful w your opinion unlike some of your other 1 star ratings.. *cough cough looking at you Conan and Blood Meridian fans
This is on my TBR shelf. Might have to chuck it out 😂
As the jack@$$ who put this on his raffle 😅, I loved this review. It’s been about 25 years since reading it and I remember really liking it. Matt’s hatred of it still brought back some positive nostalgia and his rants are always very entertaining! Matt - sorry to recommend something you hated, but thanks for giving it a go with an honest review and a raw, hilarious take! 😂😂
LOL, glad you aren't offended! :)
What complete rubbish!
A Johnny come lately to fantasy, who probably doesn’t even read just listens to audiobooks, giving a 1 star rating to a fantasy classic. How rich.
I DNFed it many years ago.
Removed from my tbr. It sounds awful!
Take o couple hits of LSD and then read it. You WILL see the brilliance.
I can't believe you even read 01 star book you're an amazing reader I started book one years ago couldn't even get past 50 pages amazing to hear that you got through the first one