I really can't understand ANYONE who would 'thumbs' down this video?? You take the Welding community clearly down a highly responsible, thorough and methodical context for how to approach this safely. People are weird. Keep up the great work Greg! I would've never thought of doing this on my own but now learning this old dinosaur from your instruction, I'm way more confident to consider it.
I honestly don’t focus much on likes or dislikes. Ultimately that’s the great thing about the internet. I put out information and people can watch it or not. The last thing I would want is for a person to sit in a class I am teaching that they aren’t interested in, because I am wasting my time and they are wasting theirs. My goals are to share knowledge, motivate, and inspire people. Ultimately I know I will be successful and I I can’t make everyone happy 😀
The amperage is controlled by saturating the magnetic field of the transform by controlling DC current going into the CWD winding through the rheostat R2. It is very simple and very reliable. I maintain a bunch of SRH333 & SRH444 welding machines which are very similar, just much larger.
Awesome, thanks for the info. That’s pretty ingenious, and a far better setup than the ideal arc I previously had. That machine used a shunt that would be moved in and out of the transformer to control the transfer from the primary to secondary winding, from what I remember. All of the mechanical parts made it more work to keep working smooth, and I have a feeling made it much harder to get an accurate output. I rather have the simplicity of the dial arc and the ease of adjustment.
First and probably the best welders joke I’ve ever heard Greg. I was so excited to share that with some of my friends but they wouldn’t have a clue as to what I was talking about. Some things are best kept on ice for later. 👍
Holy Power Drain Batman! We'll take down the entire grid for Gotham City if we turn this bad boy on!! Lolol Old School is very, very, cool. Great vid and explanations of how these old mothers worked.
Just wait until you see the video out next week where I power test it with some new equipment. It pulls a legit 600watts at idle, vs 60watts for the esab and harbor freight lol. My generator and it aren’t friends lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I love the "old school " machines and have repaired several including welder generators. The problems are usually simple fixes if you can still find the parts. It was fun watching you go through this little jewel.
The potentiometer is controlling the strength of the field on the top of the schematic. This is a saturable reactor and through physics (magic) I don't understand, controls the output of the main transformers. It's like adding a magnetic brake to the field. (Eddy currents)
Very interesting. That makes sense. Far more complicated than I would have expected lol. I am thankful for the design, the simple dial is much better than the mechanical design the ideal arc 250 I had previously. Amazing that someone figured out how to make the design.
It looks like it adjusts the amps by using a 30v winding on the secondary run through a rectifier then through that variac(adjustable resistor) and then back into the transformer on a another secondary witch would induce a stationary magnetic field into the transformer this would then increase or decrease the inductince of the transformer and change how much current it can deliver(sorry for spelling errors)
Awesome, that makes sense 😀. You and the other person posting info on that are my hero’s. That is a ingenious design, I like it far better than what Lincoln used. On their old welders they basically used a mechanically moved shunt (what lincoln called it) to increase or decrease the transformers magnetic field/flux that would transfer between the primary and secondary. The miller setup is far nicer because you don’t have to hand crank a stiff wheel forever to adjust amperage. It also seems to be pretty accurate on output too.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thanks for the comment and love your videos you've helped me alot in improving my welding I have seen those welders with the shunt you screw in and out Also I'm not an engineer so I'm not sure how correct i am
Give me a good old transformer/rectifier machine over these damn inverters! 41 years in the welding industry, I’ve learned that the inverters have limited lifespan’s, and when something fails on them, it costs as much to repair them as it did to buy it! Our shop bought several Miller inverters and they ran great for a couple years, then they quit. Sending them to repair revealed a PC board failure, the same one on each machine, and the repair cost was over 2/3rds of the purchase price! Meanwhile, the Miller SRH-333 transformer/rectifier machines that were purchased new in 1979 were still operating flawlessly in 2020 when I retired! And these things were used in heavy railcar repair, and had hundreds of hours of air-arc gouging on them! There’s an element of people out there that like buying new stuff all the time. I’m not one of them! Give me the bulletproof, tried and true, ugly as Fido’s ass, machine, and everyone else can buy the pretty little green inverters!
Arc gouging is a big time life span reducer on virtually all the inverters out there. Since it operates at high amperage and high voltage it’s tough for a inverter to handle the load. No doubt for manufacturing it will be a struggle to find options that last. You can almost be assured anything that just came out won’t be worth it lol. I do wish the repair bills on inverters were far more reasonable. That’s honestly part of why I bought the dial arc 250, once I can finally find a new shop to buy I will definitely have it as the “I know it will work” machine lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I learned on a Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DC, in the late 70’s, and that machine is still going strong, and it lives in a shop that ran the thing every day for decades. The guy has retired now, but the machine is as good as the day he bought it! He mounted it on cart for use in industries that he did work for, and one day years ago it actually fell off the bed his welding truck and landed on its side on concrete. Despite the desire to find a priest to give the thing last rights, we loaded it back up, took it back to the shop, and you’d never know anything had happened to it! Didn’t have to fix or replace anything! Bulletproof!!
The only negative thing is that you pay that reliability in the electric bills. Does any of you have ever made real calculations of a break even point in the electric bills considering old school machines VS new inverters with PFC? Eg, welding 130 amps, 20% of the On time of the machine. I know that the breaker in my garage will pop after 1 minute 130 amp welding with the old machine, and will NEVER pop with my new unit, same output. Thanks everyone, Sarto
Thanks for the kind words. I am very thankful for everyone that visits. Ultimately I want people to believe in themselves and learn things too, and I am happy to be part of the group of people making content. The truth is most of what I filmed I would have done regardless of having a channel, I just bring people along via filming it. I never expected to be able to talk to so many intelligent people, and help as many people as I have. I am pretty hopeful of being able to locate a real shop to buy soon, so I can focus on making more videos along with teaching people in person. 😀
Thanks for the subscription, and the comparison to that ideal arc 250 and two modern inverters will be out in a couple days. It’s pretty cool to see how much more efficient the newer welders are, I still like the old school ones though 😀.
Amperage adjustment is done by a 30vdc control circuit. It’s done with a Magnetic Amplifying Transformer. The more DC in the circuit, the less amperage you get out. If you lose the control circuit, check the little bridge rectifier. On my my Miller 330AB/P it was I believe a 40A rectifier. The second time it failed I replaced it with with a 70A on a heat sink. Never buy parts from Miller or Lincoln. You’ll pay $100 for a $10 part. Do your research and find it online from another source.
Awesome info, I am forever thankful for the bits of info like what you shared. I saw the bridge rectifier on the blueprint but didn’t understand what it’s for. Now it makes sense, and quite an ingenious setup. Sure beats the mechanical shunts the ideal arcs I had previously. I will spend some time researching that type of transformer 😀
Hay man you after my own heart with that old Miller welder I have a Lincoln 225 amp tombstone buzz box run on 50 amp breaker my old one the best I can tell is a 73 model the fan is down but going to get a new one can not beat old junk.lol
You are a smart man. I went to engineering school (mechanical)where I learned a little about circuits, but it wasn’t until I worked with cathodic protection and rectifiers that I became familiar with transformers, diodes, chokes, etc. You explain it well. The 7024 rods run well, btw. They lay down a lot of metal. Amps up, let it burn.
Thanks for the kind words 😀. I really want to go to school to understand electronics more, but due to a lack of time I resort to doing a lot of reading. I am glad the 7024 rods run well for you. I really like them for the nice wide and flat welds they put down. I was lucky enough to run them in welding school, because I would have never probably used them otherwise.
Thanks. In part two I cover the actual efficiency of the welder along with looking at how things work on a oscilloscope. Without ruining what I found, at idle it consumes a actual 600 watts, corrected based on power factor lol. That’s 10x any other welder I own lol.
😂😂 2 for 1 😂😂. Most of this is over my head, but you make it interesting and have a knack for dumbing down for the uninitiated. Another great video! Thanks!
Not that we were discussing jank wiring or anything but I had a unit that had 2 regular 120 plugs that they must have been plugging into 2 different outlets/breakers from around the shop.
Haha I have seen stuff like that, that definitely is sketchy lol. First time I ever saw that setup was on a 240v belt sander at a estate sale. I didn’t know what was trying to be achieved until a friend of mine said “ohh the poor man’s 240” lol.
Here in the states we have stupidly high amp services (200-400 amp single phase 240v) so the possibility of running big welders on single phase is there. 3 phase is far more efficient for sure though.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Crikey... When we had our house re-wired I asked the sparky to put a 64amp 240v socket in my garage (to run a welder) I'm pretty sure this is the highest you can run single phase in UK. Although I maybe wrong👍
And the high low switch looks to be energizing 4 large coils or 4 small coils creating a larger or smaller magnetic field to feed the output could above and below the switched coils.
Excellent video & nice score! I'm especially interested in part 2, to see how it welds & learn more about the bridge rectifier and choke (which I'm considering adding to a Lincoln tombstone).
In part two you will see a bunch of testing including amperage draw and calculated power factor. The bridge rectifier and big choke actually produces cleaner output than I expected.
Nice! I'm about to be refitting my Dad's old Rainbow Warrier Welder from Sears in 1976. I'd imagine they are very similar. I know it has a massive transformer!
I know those machines, they pop up from time to time for sale 😀. They will have a big transformer and they won’t likely have a big choke/reactor like the welder In the video because most at A/c output. They still weld good, much like a A/c buzz box 😀
If you find the AC only machines, don't be affraid to consider a heat sink and rectifier since they can be found online for well under $50. Maybe add a fan too and power supply if there isn't a fan voltage power source. The heat sinks might be something you can home brew from like a computer CPU. Like noting above, replacing the diodes, you can just purchase a full bridge rectifier either as super cheap lower current ones that can be paralleled together or just spend a little more for the larger current (Amps = A) single one well overrated for your machine. I didn't realized those Millers had such a large inductor to smooth the signal. Nice! Sure beats DIY homebrewed microwave oven transformer cores rewound as inductors to smooth the DC.
Good video, liked and subscribed! I like how you noted as well, where the reactor is like a capacitor. I think of as the voltage = potential = electric field and then the amperage = current = magnetic field. Capacitors in this situation smooth out the voltage and the Inductors smooth out the current. When one is changed the other will be changed to keep things basically and simple speaking.
Great thoughts on making a a/c into a d/c machine. I have thought about doing just that since I like collecting welders and many A/c machines can be had for so cheap. Definitely could be a fun project for the channel 😀
RE studs .. don’t forget that it is only 120v going through each stud not 240v. However if you are running the welder at 480v or even 600v then the amperage will be much lower and the studs don’t give a crap about voltage more about amperage and heat .. lets not forget it takes over 10,000v for electricity to jump a 1 inch gap and your little stud could handle 10,000v as long as you amps are low .. if I remember my high school Electrical classes correctly
Ok so my high school class slipped a little over the years so according to the web it is approximately 75,000v per inch for electricity to jump a 1 inch air gap so Im assuming at 1/2 inch air gap 52:51 you need approximately 37,500v so your wrapping tape with your 120v per line in is completely is unnecessary as a matter of fact it may cause issues down the road .. if the tape heats up and starts to come off overtime .. this is why you never see tape been used in a location like that always clean terminals no tape that can get hot and catch fire. Don’t want to sound like an ass here but these machines were Engineered and approved by UL and CSA to work for years 😊 I believe the stud broke off when they disconnected the welder … that cable is way to stiff to be moving it around completely the wrong cable if you want to move it around should have had a lot more strands of copper like the one you installed nice and flexible.
Very cool! I really like that old stuff, too. But not for daily work. When handling lower amperage a shoebox can offer, I would choose the shoebox. For higher amperage you would be in need of your personal power plant... I rebuilded my fathers transformer 220 or 400v 40-160A output, AC only. Very smooth arc and fun to weld with but... heavy and inefficient. (not as heavy as your new old miller😂). To be honest it was basically for a tribute to the "old days" as well to my father himself who welded with this machine for almost a lifetime. So I will keep and use it - for fun, for understanding old technique and for the history within. I think that small brass stud is sufficient because of the very short distance it has to carry the power compared to the cord. Your "jumpers" may help to anneal the poor conductivity of the steel studs. It is interesting, how things are made somewhere else, because here we are tought never to solder on crimpc-onnectors or bolted terminals because the solder behaves like a highly viscose liquid under constant pressure and float so that the connection becomes unstable over times. As always: great video on a very interesting topic! I really appreciate that you get into savety in first place. An other viewer moaned that every idiot could rebuild such a machine. I partially agree but that idiot may somewhen in his life(perhaps near the end) start to smell like grilled chicken. So everybody who does not want to end up sa a "welldone" hillbilly should take advantage in watching this video and follow your advice.
In part two when I test the efficiency and power factor it’s pretty eye opening. Without spoiling it the power draw is high lol. At idle it consumes 600watts lol. It still welds great though 😀 Thanks for your thoughts on everything else too. The solder should be ok, but I will definitely consider that in the future. My main concern was without a better crimp that the wires would not be retained properly. I wanted to just use copper buss bars but I didn’t have any flat copper around. I am thankful for tips everyone shares 😀
Something i forgot to mention is about the reactor: I think of this as a device that stores a huge amount of power in a magnetic field and releases this by induction when the voltage drops. Not only to flat out DC voltagecurve oc but also under load. I assume when starting the arc: the moment the rod touches the steel, you create basically a short. That means to me voltage wants to drop immediately to zero. The reactor feeds energy into that circuit in a fast respond and flattens out that curve, too so that the arc easily can be lit. It basically keeps the voltage on the output stable when the resistece in the welding circuit changes. Maybe I'm incorrect, but that's the way I picture it.
With very few components they definitely are reliable. The main limitation is how power hungry they are and in the case of the welder I have, the poor power factor loads up circuits thus requiring big power wire. They still weld great and it pays to have a few around 😀
So laser welders are a real thing, but very limited In use. They are most useful for thin material. In the long run laser welders will likely overtake tig, but that’s a ways off for sure.
I have the Dialarc 250 HF as my Tig machine. I have the Titanium 225 for SMAW. The Miller is on a 240V 100 amp service. The T225 is on a 240V 50 amp service.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Actually, it is a far better power supply for DCEP. 6010 runs smoother. 7018 starts easier. I did remove, clean and reconnect every connection in the HF 250 and it made a huge difference in how well it runs Tig.
Yes sir I'm a fan of the old school welding machine those are the only ones that are school had that's how I was taught to weld and you can add a suitcase to it too. I'm finding a lot of older Miller machines I've been entertained for a dynasty 500 DX that is down the road from my house. The old welding guy has been trying to get rid of it but nobody is interested in it. He has given me a hell of a price for it to.
The old school machines weld really well. In the second part of the video where I test it you will see the main drawback, how much power they consume lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg oh yeah I know what you mean they are very inefficient compared to the modern family of welder. That's why the schools were running them on 308-480 to help with the power consumption.. LoL 😆😆😆😆😆
Meh. I’m reading the guys here who love these old machines. They’re ok. Nit great. Sure they last, but really, that’s not a big deal. A company writes off their equipment. No big deal. There are very good reasons these things have died out, and good riddance. It’s odd how they do these connectors. Copper is around 90-93% efficient. Brass is around 30-40% efficient. The steel is around 25% efficient. I would never had designed something that way. It gives me the chills looking at it. It’s really called three wire cable. But all three are conductors so I suppose it’s technically correct. Greg, I wouldn’t solder that as soldering creates a higher resistance joint. Normally it’s not too much of a problem, but with really high amperage connectors it could cause heating.
Another interesting item is that Miller supposedly no longer produces any transformer type machines. Even their longtime buzz box “Thunderbolt” machine is an inverter. An inverter that’s easily stolen because it will fit in a lunchbox!
If they do make a transformer it would be in a big industrial unit only. You are right, their thunder bolt series went inverter. They also dont weld as good as the transformer machines, they can’t produce much closed circuit voltage. The price is also inside (700+) lol.
It’s pretty amazing how much power that dial arc loads up a circuit. There are houses in my area that don’t even have enough power going to them to run just the dial arc maxed out lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg yea it’s like the grizwalds Xmas lights remember? 😂 dude you gotta check out my comments I added bout the die grinder, I lost my shit laughing last night when you randomly lost it bout that thing cutting off on the welding side job video man
So I own my own landscaping business and have my little channel I added recently for it, but anyways, I was tinkering in my shop last night welding and I’m like dang that spark ⚡️ felt little hot 🥵 for some reason down at my ankle, so I flipped the hood up and there’s damn flames 🔥 coming up past my knees 😂 I’m like welp I guess that settles it, these work pants are highly flameable. I got it knocked out and there’s literally like 8” of my pant leg missing, so while still laughing but alittle burnt ankle syndrome I walked inside to show my girl and I looked like ace Ventura when he comes back into that big formal dinner after that shark tank with his pants all chopped off, that was me and we laughed for 20 min about it 😂😂 ua-cam.com/video/GUfS_2UGftg/v-deo.htmlsi=jbmhyQr47cDee0g5
Interesting. How does the magnetic amplification work then? Many other older welders I have taken apart seem to use a mechanically moved shunt to control how how efficient the primary to secondary winding transfer is. This welder is fixed with no moving parts. The rheostat has very thin/small wire, so clearly it’s not carrying much amperage. How would it be able to control a transformer? My only thought would be that it’s varying the voltage of the output on the initial transformer into the actual welding output transformers. If that’s the case that initial transformer must not output much amperage.
mag amp looks like a transformer, it is a saturable reactor it uses magnetic saturation of the core which happens to be non liner property of certain transformer cores. @@makingmistakeswithgreg
P=I*U. For the same Power with half voltage u have to double the amperage. Higher Amperage creates more loss through heat at same size wire. 3 phase calculation: P=I*U*sqr3 (and yes, both have to be multiplied with the PF cosPhi.) You get roughly 1.7 times the Power than 1 phase. Pulse usually for MIG or TIG, lower frequnency: good penetration with good control and fast freezing puddle. For out of position welding and thin sheet metal High frequencies narrow but intense arc. Makes aluminium MIG easyer. Some manufacturers have "hyperpulse"(some kHz) for smaw, too. But what this does is way over my head...
I really enjoy the channel and I’m definitely not trying to sound like the typical internet hater but…. Why buy this at all? Wouldn’t something like that Titanium 225 do everything this machine will do? Aside from duty cycle of course, it seems like $300 could be spent on something like the titanium with the advantage of a warranty with none of the disadvantages like lack of portability and huge footprint.
No need to worry sharing your thoughts. That is a very valid question. I think it comes down to what a person wants. From a welding perspective the dial arc has a smoother arc. If the welder is going to sit in place and never move, (and you have the power to feed it) the dial arc will likely far outlast the 225 and I rather use that. It also has far more stable output at higher amperage. I tested the 225 and it’s dc output starts to break down a bit at 180+ amps (it starts showing signs of inconsistent voltage). From a realistic standpoint, I would much rather have a titanium 225 sized stick welder over the dial arc if I only had one welder. Like you said it has portability, is small, and it’s also legitimately consumes 30% less power. For me the dial arc will sit in my new shop (once I can find one to buy) and be used occasionally.
Not to mention, it is fun to learn how things worked back in the day, and it is cool to restore something that probably would be scrapped. I hate seeing things go to waste when a little elbow grease, and some parts, can bring it back to life, and in the case of that terminal, you can improve the original design. Call it a passion or a hobby, some things are worth preserving, and it gives you pride of ownership, and a satisfaction that you can’t get from a modern version.
@@michaelwhiting878 I totally get it as I collect vintage garden tractors from the ‘50s and ‘60s. It’s just that if a fella is on a budget and wants a stick welder I think something like that 225 is the way to go. I have access to a few nice welders at work. At home I have a Lincoln 140 and titanium 225. Between the two of them I can get done anything I need to do.
I appreciate the lengths you go to cover so many different aspects of welding as a topic. Teaching beginners through advanced, rating welders, talking about them and even buying some that would be likely candidates for all different levels...then recording/editing/presenting it all, then taking the time to read and reply to most or all comments. It's appreciated! 👍 I mentioned in a reply a while back that I was looking at an old school Sears AC. I have around $70 in it all told and if it turns out I love stick welding an upgrade to the 225 or beyond may be what I do. Love your content and the lengths you're willing to go for butane!😂😂😂
Big ha ha ha... The whole space... Mwahahaha. As little as she is she sure is cute! And for 250 280 a value as well!!! Mine is at least twice as big. And weighs probably about 1500. Regardless, she's a beaut! Good buy! (I'm assuming I'm that guy...)
Haha I have seen those, definitely sketchy. I have seen videos of guys using those on a road side with it run off a 200’ extension cord inorder to weld holes in engine blocks shut and repair axles lol.
If that’s all you took away that’s unfortunate. The main purpose of the video was to help people who might want to buy (or already own) a old welder, understand how they work and what to look for so they don’t have it blow up when they hook it up to power. Oddly enough the welder had a broken power lug and would have blown a hole in the side panel had I not inspected it. The video was also to familiarize people with what to expect when opening a welder up. Many people are afraid of doing that because they have no idea/experience with doing stuff like that. It sounds like you know most of everything in the video, which is perfectly fine. I wasn’t aiming the video for someone who is at your skill level.
I really can't understand ANYONE who would 'thumbs' down this video?? You take the Welding community clearly down a highly responsible, thorough and methodical context for how to approach this safely. People are weird. Keep up the great work Greg! I would've never thought of doing this on my own but now learning this old dinosaur from your instruction, I'm way more confident to consider it.
I honestly don’t focus much on likes or dislikes. Ultimately that’s the great thing about the internet. I put out information and people can watch it or not. The last thing I would want is for a person to sit in a class I am teaching that they aren’t interested in, because I am wasting my time and they are wasting theirs. My goals are to share knowledge, motivate, and inspire people. Ultimately I know I will be successful and I I can’t make everyone happy 😀
The amperage is controlled by saturating the magnetic field of the transform by controlling DC current going into the CWD winding through the rheostat R2. It is very simple and very reliable. I maintain a bunch of SRH333 & SRH444 welding machines which are very similar, just much larger.
Awesome, thanks for the info. That’s pretty ingenious, and a far better setup than the ideal arc I previously had. That machine used a shunt that would be moved in and out of the transformer to control the transfer from the primary to secondary winding, from what I remember. All of the mechanical parts made it more work to keep working smooth, and I have a feeling made it much harder to get an accurate output. I rather have the simplicity of the dial arc and the ease of adjustment.
First and probably the best welders joke I’ve ever heard Greg. I was so excited to share that with some of my friends but they wouldn’t have a clue as to what I was talking about. Some things are best kept on ice for later. 👍
Holy Power Drain Batman! We'll take down the entire grid for Gotham City if we turn this bad boy on!! Lolol Old School is very, very, cool. Great vid and explanations of how these old mothers worked.
Just wait until you see the video out next week where I power test it with some new equipment. It pulls a legit 600watts at idle, vs 60watts for the esab and harbor freight lol. My generator and it aren’t friends lol.
FYI, I believe that JE serial number makes that machine a 1984 model.
You are correct, I found that out after the video. It’s the only welder I own that will be working at 40+ years old
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I love the "old school " machines and have repaired several including welder generators. The problems are usually simple fixes if you can still find the parts. It was fun watching you go through this little jewel.
The potentiometer is controlling the strength of the field on the top of the schematic. This is a saturable reactor and through physics (magic) I don't understand, controls the output of the main transformers. It's like adding a magnetic brake to the field. (Eddy currents)
Very interesting. That makes sense. Far more complicated than I would have expected lol. I am thankful for the design, the simple dial is much better than the mechanical design the ideal arc 250 I had previously. Amazing that someone figured out how to make the design.
I think I saw that one on marketplace. I’m excited to see the video.
Thank you for the break down of this machine. The think that changes the voltage reminds me of a reostat
That is definitely what it is 😃
It looks like it adjusts the amps by using a 30v winding on the secondary run through a rectifier then through that variac(adjustable resistor) and then back into the transformer on a another secondary witch would induce a stationary magnetic field into the transformer this would then increase or decrease the inductince of the transformer and change how much current it can deliver(sorry for spelling errors)
Awesome, that makes sense 😀. You and the other person posting info on that are my hero’s. That is a ingenious design, I like it far better than what Lincoln used. On their old welders they basically used a mechanically moved shunt (what lincoln called it) to increase or decrease the transformers magnetic field/flux that would transfer between the primary and secondary. The miller setup is far nicer because you don’t have to hand crank a stiff wheel forever to adjust amperage. It also seems to be pretty accurate on output too.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thanks for the comment and love your videos you've helped me alot in improving my welding
I have seen those welders with the shunt you screw in and out
Also I'm not an engineer so I'm not sure how correct i am
Give me a good old transformer/rectifier machine over these damn inverters! 41 years in the welding industry, I’ve learned that the inverters have limited lifespan’s, and when something fails on them, it costs as much to repair them as it did to buy it! Our shop bought several Miller inverters and they ran great for a couple years, then they quit. Sending them to repair revealed a PC board failure, the same one on each machine, and the repair cost was over 2/3rds of the purchase price! Meanwhile, the Miller SRH-333 transformer/rectifier machines that were purchased new in 1979 were still operating flawlessly in 2020 when I retired! And these things were used in heavy railcar repair, and had hundreds of hours of air-arc gouging on them! There’s an element of people out there that like buying new stuff all the time. I’m not one of them! Give me the bulletproof, tried and true, ugly as Fido’s ass, machine, and everyone else can buy the pretty little green inverters!
Arc gouging is a big time life span reducer on virtually all the inverters out there. Since it operates at high amperage and high voltage it’s tough for a inverter to handle the load. No doubt for manufacturing it will be a struggle to find options that last. You can almost be assured anything that just came out won’t be worth it lol. I do wish the repair bills on inverters were far more reasonable. That’s honestly part of why I bought the dial arc 250, once I can finally find a new shop to buy I will definitely have it as the “I know it will work” machine lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I learned on a Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DC, in the late 70’s, and that machine is still going strong, and it lives in a shop that ran the thing every day for decades. The guy has retired now, but the machine is as good as the day he bought it! He mounted it on cart for use in industries that he did work for, and one day years ago it actually fell off the bed his welding truck and landed on its side on concrete. Despite the desire to find a priest to give the thing last rights, we loaded it back up, took it back to the shop, and you’d never know anything had happened to it! Didn’t have to fix or replace anything! Bulletproof!!
The only negative thing is that you pay that reliability in the electric bills.
Does any of you have ever made real calculations of a break even point in the electric bills considering old school machines VS new inverters with PFC?
Eg, welding 130 amps, 20% of the On time of the machine.
I know that the breaker in my garage will pop after 1 minute 130 amp welding with the old machine, and will NEVER pop with my new unit, same output.
Thanks everyone, Sarto
You have yourself some very well deserved fans visiting this great channel. Nice work!
Thanks for the kind words. I am very thankful for everyone that visits. Ultimately I want people to believe in themselves and learn things too, and I am happy to be part of the group of people making content. The truth is most of what I filmed I would have done regardless of having a channel, I just bring people along via filming it. I never expected to be able to talk to so many intelligent people, and help as many people as I have. I am pretty hopeful of being able to locate a real shop to buy soon, so I can focus on making more videos along with teaching people in person. 😀
Wow!
Someone who actually knows what they are doin inside a old welding machine!
Thank You!
I am gonna subscribe!
Thanks for the subscription, and the comparison to that ideal arc 250 and two modern inverters will be out in a couple days. It’s pretty cool to see how much more efficient the newer welders are, I still like the old school ones though 😀.
Amperage adjustment is done by a 30vdc control circuit. It’s done with a Magnetic Amplifying Transformer. The more DC in the circuit, the less amperage you get out. If you lose the control circuit, check the little bridge rectifier. On my my Miller 330AB/P it was I believe a 40A rectifier. The second time it failed I replaced it with with a 70A on a heat sink. Never buy parts from Miller or Lincoln. You’ll pay $100 for a $10 part. Do your research and find it online from another source.
Awesome info, I am forever thankful for the bits of info like what you shared. I saw the bridge rectifier on the blueprint but didn’t understand what it’s for. Now it makes sense, and quite an ingenious setup. Sure beats the mechanical shunts the ideal arcs I had previously. I will spend some time researching that type of transformer 😀
Rocking it old school!
Hay man you after my own heart with that old Miller welder I have a Lincoln 225 amp tombstone buzz box run on 50 amp breaker my old one the best I can tell is a 73 model the fan is down but going to get a new one can not beat old junk.lol
You are a smart man. I went to engineering school (mechanical)where I learned a little about circuits, but it wasn’t until I worked with cathodic protection and rectifiers that I became familiar with transformers, diodes, chokes, etc. You explain it well. The 7024 rods run well, btw. They lay down a lot of metal. Amps up, let it burn.
Thanks for the kind words 😀. I really want to go to school to understand electronics more, but due to a lack of time I resort to doing a lot of reading. I am glad the 7024 rods run well for you. I really like them for the nice wide and flat welds they put down. I was lucky enough to run them in welding school, because I would have never probably used them otherwise.
Love the content bro!
Keep it up...
Thanks. In part two I cover the actual efficiency of the welder along with looking at how things work on a oscilloscope. Without ruining what I found, at idle it consumes a actual 600 watts, corrected based on power factor lol. That’s 10x any other welder I own lol.
😂😂 2 for 1 😂😂. Most of this is over my head, but you make it interesting and have a knack for dumbing down for the uninitiated. Another great video! Thanks!
You’re welcome. The second part video will be really fun where I test efficiency. To put how inefficient it is, it consumes 600 watts at idle lol.
Not that we were discussing jank wiring or anything but I had a unit that had 2 regular 120 plugs that they must have been plugging into 2 different outlets/breakers from around the shop.
Haha I have seen stuff like that, that definitely is sketchy lol. First time I ever saw that setup was on a 240v belt sander at a estate sale. I didn’t know what was trying to be achieved until a friend of mine said “ohh the poor man’s 240” lol.
I'm in UK and use an old Syncrowave 250 on 3 phase 415v 32amp. I didn't think these big beast would run single phase.
Here in the states we have stupidly high amp services (200-400 amp single phase 240v) so the possibility of running big welders on single phase is there. 3 phase is far more efficient for sure though.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Crikey... When we had our house re-wired I asked the sparky to put a 64amp 240v socket in my garage (to run a welder) I'm pretty sure this is the highest you can run single phase in UK. Although I maybe wrong👍
And the high low switch looks to be energizing 4 large coils or 4 small coils creating a larger or smaller magnetic field to feed the output could above and below the switched coils.
Excellent video & nice score! I'm especially interested in part 2, to see how it welds & learn more about the bridge rectifier and choke (which I'm considering adding to a Lincoln tombstone).
In part two you will see a bunch of testing including amperage draw and calculated power factor. The bridge rectifier and big choke actually produces cleaner output than I expected.
Nice!
I'm about to be refitting my Dad's old Rainbow Warrier Welder from Sears in 1976.
I'd imagine they are very similar.
I know it has a massive transformer!
I know those machines, they pop up from time to time for sale 😀. They will have a big transformer and they won’t likely have a big choke/reactor like the welder In the video because most at A/c output. They still weld good, much like a A/c buzz box 😀
If you find the AC only machines, don't be affraid to consider a heat sink and rectifier since they can be found online for well under $50. Maybe add a fan too and power supply if there isn't a fan voltage power source. The heat sinks might be something you can home brew from like a computer CPU. Like noting above, replacing the diodes, you can just purchase a full bridge rectifier either as super cheap lower current ones that can be paralleled together or just spend a little more for the larger current (Amps = A) single one well overrated for your machine. I didn't realized those Millers had such a large inductor to smooth the signal. Nice! Sure beats DIY homebrewed microwave oven transformer cores rewound as inductors to smooth the DC.
Good video, liked and subscribed! I like how you noted as well, where the reactor is like a capacitor. I think of as the voltage = potential = electric field and then the amperage = current = magnetic field. Capacitors in this situation smooth out the voltage and the Inductors smooth out the current. When one is changed the other will be changed to keep things basically and simple speaking.
Great thoughts on making a a/c into a d/c machine. I have thought about doing just that since I like collecting welders and many A/c machines can be had for so cheap. Definitely could be a fun project for the channel 😀
That is a really nice bit of kit.
RE studs .. don’t forget that it is only 120v going through each stud not 240v. However if you are running the welder at 480v or even 600v then the amperage will be much lower and the studs don’t give a crap about voltage more about amperage and heat .. lets not forget it takes over 10,000v for electricity to jump a 1 inch gap and your little stud could handle 10,000v as long as you amps are low .. if I remember my high school Electrical classes correctly
Ok so my high school class slipped a little over the years so according to the web it is approximately 75,000v per inch for electricity to jump a 1 inch air gap so Im assuming at 1/2 inch air gap 52:51 you need approximately 37,500v so your wrapping tape with your 120v per line in is completely is unnecessary as a matter of fact it may cause issues down the road .. if the tape heats up and starts to come off overtime .. this is why you never see tape been used in a location like that always clean terminals no tape that can get hot and catch fire. Don’t want to sound like an ass here but these machines were Engineered and approved by UL and CSA to work for years 😊 I believe the stud broke off when they disconnected the welder … that cable is way to stiff to be moving it around completely the wrong cable if you want to move it around should have had a lot more strands of copper like the one you installed nice and flexible.
Very cool! I really like that old stuff, too. But not for daily work. When handling lower amperage a shoebox can offer, I would choose the shoebox. For higher amperage you would be in need of your personal power plant... I rebuilded my fathers transformer 220 or 400v 40-160A output, AC only. Very smooth arc and fun to weld with but... heavy and inefficient. (not as heavy as your new old miller😂). To be honest it was basically for a tribute to the "old days" as well to my father himself who welded with this machine for almost a lifetime. So I will keep and use it - for fun, for understanding old technique and for the history within.
I think that small brass stud is sufficient because of the very short distance it has to carry the power compared to the cord.
Your "jumpers" may help to anneal the poor conductivity of the steel studs.
It is interesting, how things are made somewhere else, because here we are tought never to solder on crimpc-onnectors or bolted terminals because the solder behaves like a highly viscose liquid under constant pressure and float so that the connection becomes unstable over times. As always: great video on a very interesting topic! I really appreciate that you get into savety in first place. An other viewer moaned that every idiot could rebuild such a machine. I partially agree but that idiot may somewhen in his life(perhaps near the end) start to smell like grilled chicken. So everybody who does not want to end up sa a "welldone" hillbilly should take advantage in watching this video and follow your advice.
In part two when I test the efficiency and power factor it’s pretty eye opening. Without spoiling it the power draw is high lol. At idle it consumes 600watts lol. It still welds great though 😀
Thanks for your thoughts on everything else too. The solder should be ok, but I will definitely consider that in the future. My main concern was without a better crimp that the wires would not be retained properly. I wanted to just use copper buss bars but I didn’t have any flat copper around. I am thankful for tips everyone shares 😀
There are crimping Tools that keep that shoe round on the wire. This fasten that wire dead solid.
Something i forgot to mention is about the reactor: I think of this as a device that stores a huge amount of power in a magnetic field and releases this by induction when the voltage drops. Not only to flat out DC voltagecurve oc but also under load. I assume when starting the arc: the moment the rod touches the steel, you create basically a short. That means to me voltage wants to drop immediately to zero. The reactor feeds energy into that circuit in a fast respond and flattens out that curve, too so that the arc easily can be lit. It basically keeps the voltage on the output stable when the resistece in the welding circuit changes. Maybe I'm incorrect, but that's the way I picture it.
It's a rheostat yes it varies the voltage going through the transformer it's an auto transformer
i run nothing but 60 year old welders and i never have any issues with them
With very few components they definitely are reliable. The main limitation is how power hungry they are and in the case of the welder I have, the poor power factor loads up circuits thus requiring big power wire. They still weld great and it pays to have a few around 😀
@@makingmistakeswithgreg my larsen elt-16 225A welder pulls 41A at 380v 3phase
Random thought. I keep seeing these cool looking welder videos. They say they’re a laser welder.
So laser welders are a real thing, but very limited In use. They are most useful for thin material. In the long run laser welders will likely overtake tig, but that’s a ways off for sure.
I have the Dialarc 250 HF as my Tig machine. I have the Titanium 225 for SMAW. The Miller is on a 240V 100 amp service. The T225 is on a 240V 50 amp service.
Awesome. I assume you use the 225 because it’s far more portable?
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Actually, it is a far better power supply for DCEP. 6010 runs smoother. 7018 starts easier.
I did remove, clean and reconnect every connection in the HF 250 and it made a huge difference in how well it runs Tig.
Yes sir I'm a fan of the old school welding machine those are the only ones that are school had that's how I was taught to weld and you can add a suitcase to it too. I'm finding a lot of older Miller machines I've been entertained for a dynasty 500 DX that is down the road from my house. The old welding guy has been trying to get rid of it but nobody is interested in it. He has given me a hell of a price for it to.
The old school machines weld really well. In the second part of the video where I test it you will see the main drawback, how much power they consume lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg oh yeah I know what you mean they are very inefficient compared to the modern family of welder. That's why the schools were running them on 308-480 to help with the power consumption.. LoL 😆😆😆😆😆
That machine with dinse connectors would just make it sweet.
I am going to swap it to dinse I think, I have 3 sets of leads for dinse. The leads it came with are in rough shape, so I might as well 😀
Meh. I’m reading the guys here who love these old machines. They’re ok. Nit great. Sure they last, but really, that’s not a big deal. A company writes off their equipment. No big deal. There are very good reasons these things have died out, and good riddance. It’s odd how they do these connectors. Copper is around 90-93% efficient. Brass is around 30-40% efficient. The steel is around 25% efficient. I would never had designed something that way. It gives me the chills looking at it. It’s really called three wire cable. But all three are conductors so I suppose it’s technically correct. Greg, I wouldn’t solder that as soldering creates a higher resistance joint. Normally it’s not too much of a problem, but with really high amperage connectors it could cause heating.
Another interesting item is that Miller supposedly no longer produces any transformer type machines. Even their longtime buzz box “Thunderbolt” machine is an inverter. An inverter that’s easily stolen because it will fit in a lunchbox!
If they do make a transformer it would be in a big industrial unit only. You are right, their thunder bolt series went inverter. They also dont weld as good as the transformer machines, they can’t produce much closed circuit voltage. The price is also inside (700+) lol.
Meanwhile, that Machine cranks up and the neighborhoods lights all dim 😂
It’s pretty amazing how much power that dial arc loads up a circuit. There are houses in my area that don’t even have enough power going to them to run just the dial arc maxed out lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg yea it’s like the grizwalds Xmas lights remember? 😂 dude you gotta check out my comments I added bout the die grinder, I lost my shit laughing last night when you randomly lost it bout that thing cutting off on the welding side job video man
So I own my own landscaping business and have my little channel I added recently for it, but anyways, I was tinkering in my shop last night welding and I’m like dang that spark ⚡️ felt little hot 🥵 for some reason down at my ankle, so I flipped the hood up and there’s damn flames 🔥 coming up past my knees 😂 I’m like welp I guess that settles it, these work pants are highly flameable. I got it knocked out and there’s literally like 8” of my pant leg missing, so while still laughing but alittle burnt ankle syndrome I walked inside to show my girl and I looked like ace Ventura when he comes back into that big formal dinner after that shark tank with his pants all chopped off, that was me and we laughed for 20 min about it 😂😂
ua-cam.com/video/GUfS_2UGftg/v-deo.htmlsi=jbmhyQr47cDee0g5
Miller uses codes based on the serial number to give you the manufacturing date.
I was able to translate it 😀. It was made within 1 month of my date of birth lol.
Reostat to control amps out.
an old miller man i am a. sucker for old stuff to
Old stuff is some of the best stuff 😀
The word you're looking for is rheostat, power is controlled by magnetic amplification.
Interesting. How does the magnetic amplification work then? Many other older welders I have taken apart seem to use a mechanically moved shunt to control how how efficient the primary to secondary winding transfer is. This welder is fixed with no moving parts. The rheostat has very thin/small wire, so clearly it’s not carrying much amperage. How would it be able to control a transformer? My only thought would be that it’s varying the voltage of the output on the initial transformer into the actual welding output transformers. If that’s the case that initial transformer must not output much amperage.
mag amp looks like a transformer, it is a saturable reactor it uses magnetic saturation of the core which happens to be non liner property of certain transformer cores. @@makingmistakeswithgreg
A small dc current on the control winding can switch or control large Ac currents in the AC windings thus resulting in current being amplified.
I definitely have a bunch of reading to do 😀. It’s awesome to learn new things 😀
Now draw for us Why 240v is more efficient then 120v... And the Diff between 1 & 3 Phase... And the Diff between Pulse setting's on newer stuff...
P=I*U. For the same Power with half voltage u have to double the amperage. Higher Amperage creates more loss through heat at same size wire.
3 phase calculation: P=I*U*sqr3
(and yes, both have to be multiplied with the PF cosPhi.) You get roughly 1.7 times the Power than 1 phase.
Pulse usually for MIG or TIG, lower frequnency: good penetration with good control and fast freezing puddle. For out of position welding and thin sheet metal High frequencies narrow but intense arc. Makes aluminium MIG easyer. Some manufacturers have "hyperpulse"(some kHz) for smaw, too. But what this does is way over my head...
Could you plug it into a landline to be safer?
Nice thanks !!!
Are you at all familar with cebora welders?
Ok looked again closely at your video looks like you used shrink wrap not tape 👍🏻 my bad
A thyristor?
I really enjoy the channel and I’m definitely not trying to sound like the typical internet hater but….
Why buy this at all? Wouldn’t something like that Titanium 225 do everything this machine will do? Aside from duty cycle of course, it seems like $300 could be spent on something like the titanium with the advantage of a warranty with none of the disadvantages like lack of portability and huge footprint.
No need to worry sharing your thoughts. That is a very valid question. I think it comes down to what a person wants. From a welding perspective the dial arc has a smoother arc. If the welder is going to sit in place and never move, (and you have the power to feed it) the dial arc will likely far outlast the 225 and I rather use that. It also has far more stable output at higher amperage. I tested the 225 and it’s dc output starts to break down a bit at 180+ amps (it starts showing signs of inconsistent voltage). From a realistic standpoint, I would much rather have a titanium 225 sized stick welder over the dial arc if I only had one welder. Like you said it has portability, is small, and it’s also legitimately consumes 30% less power. For me the dial arc will sit in my new shop (once I can find one to buy) and be used occasionally.
Not to mention, it is fun to learn how things worked back in the day, and it is cool to restore something that probably would be scrapped. I hate seeing things go to waste when a little elbow grease, and some parts, can bring it back to life, and in the case of that terminal, you can improve the original design. Call it a passion or a hobby, some things are worth preserving, and it gives you pride of ownership, and a satisfaction that you can’t get from a modern version.
@@michaelwhiting878 I totally get it as I collect vintage garden tractors from the ‘50s and ‘60s. It’s just that if a fella is on a budget and wants a stick welder I think something like that 225 is the way to go. I have access to a few nice welders at work. At home I have a Lincoln 140 and titanium 225. Between the two of them I can get done anything I need to do.
I appreciate the lengths you go to cover so many different aspects of welding as a topic. Teaching beginners through advanced, rating welders, talking about them and even buying some that would be likely candidates for all different levels...then recording/editing/presenting it all, then taking the time to read and reply to most or all comments. It's appreciated! 👍 I mentioned in a reply a while back that I was looking at an old school Sears AC. I have around $70 in it all told and if it turns out I love stick welding an upgrade to the 225 or beyond may be what I do. Love your content and the lengths you're willing to go for butane!😂😂😂
i bet they use capasetrs now also DAM DAM DAMN auto correct
Big ha ha ha... The whole space... Mwahahaha. As little as she is she sure is cute! And for 250 280 a value as well!!! Mine is at least twice as big. And weighs probably about 1500. Regardless, she's a beaut! Good buy!
(I'm assuming I'm that guy...)
So I have a mini fridge, you have the whole fridge lol.
And then build us a Stick Welder out of a Microwave Transformer like those dudes from India Do... haa
Haha I have seen those, definitely sketchy. I have seen videos of guys using those on a road side with it run off a 200’ extension cord inorder to weld holes in engine blocks shut and repair axles lol.
Seriously. You created a video on how to rewire a welder. Any idiot can do this.
If that’s all you took away that’s unfortunate. The main purpose of the video was to help people who might want to buy (or already own) a old welder, understand how they work and what to look for so they don’t have it blow up when they hook it up to power. Oddly enough the welder had a broken power lug and would have blown a hole in the side panel had I not inspected it. The video was also to familiarize people with what to expect when opening a welder up. Many people are afraid of doing that because they have no idea/experience with doing stuff like that. It sounds like you know most of everything in the video, which is perfectly fine. I wasn’t aiming the video for someone who is at your skill level.