Here is one I owed you guys! How about a very simple Type 27 Hartley Oscillator Transmitter? Thanks to the fellows who have built some of these for some picture ideas.
Looks like the start of another good series, that said I can think of better ways to to get 2.5V filament power from a 6.3V filament transformer than simply dropping 3.8V (6.7 watts) in a big resistor. If your 6.3V transformer has a dual voltage primary and you live in a 120V country configure it for 240 and feed it 120, giving ~3.15V on the secondary, only 0.65V to drop, 0R33 2W would give 2.57V (well within tolerance) and only burn about 1 watt. Or if the 6.3V winding is center tapped the tube could be run off half the secondary with the same 0R33.
🙂 Excellent, thank you Mike. This is sure to be a good a series. I may even have a go at this. A quick check does suggest that the 227 toob is perhaps a little more expensive here in the UK. Maybe around $30.
As i recall, 27, 37, 56, 76 and 6C5 (6J5) all belong to same familly and all would probably work well, last two would not be period correct. Would not use precious and fragile early blue Arcurus. Great video, great content and superb presentation. All the best
@@sinisatrlin840 Yes the 7A4 is electrically the same as the 6J5 octal also good one to start with. Almost all Loktals are merely electrical copies of octals.
This is perfect I was just in the process of gathering parts to build one of these transmitters. Most of the tubes used with these transmitters are priced way out of my range the type 27 sounds doable. What about an 807 wired like triode I have a bunch of 807.
Interesting stuff. Back when it was more magic than science. Had to laugh at your first tube with a cathode, we maybe the first tube with an indirectly heated cathode.
I'd be interested in building one of these to run on batteries. For the filament, two cells of NiMH batteries will produce the right voltage under load -- and are rechargeable, of course. In 1929, you'd probably have used a single lead acid cell for the filament (only 2V, but it should still work, just take a little longer to warm up the cathode -- tradeoff is your filament will live longer at lower voltage), or two cells with a (variable?) resistor to regulate filament temperature. For the plate, a bank of 20 9V batteries in series will give 150 V or so under 40 mA load and ought to last at least several hours of transmit time -- which doesn't count down when your key is open, so might last weeks or longer in actual use. Depending on the size of your A battery, you might have to swap it out for the spare on charge every hour or two, though...
Grandpa used a rotary converter, basically a Mains AC Motor driving a HV Generator. Later Dynamotors came along DC in DC Out. But a Battery Pile would work at this low current drain, no problem. I suggest 30 9V batteries. Of course this 12 Dollar up converter would work! www.amazon.com/Voltage-Converter-%C2%B145V-390V-Capacitor-Charging/dp/B07CMPWMC8/ref=asc_df_B07CMPWMC8/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312111529833&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2824619081832960326&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002293&hvtargid=pla-612783772778&psc=1&mcid=1f822bcb3b5a36cdb9b827e0c49ca26e&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=67656252888&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=312111529833&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2824619081832960326&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002293&hvtargid=pla-612783772778&gclid=CjwKCAiA8NKtBhBtEiwAq5aX2KzbCmd6b5DpUvBzkowXgkXgO_0j5ikJRgIvHftfoa0u6IqlDXY1_hoCMNYQAvD_BwE
@@MIKROWAVE1 Looks like a deal to run the plates off, say, an emergency lighting or UPS gel cell battery (combine with a regulator to get your 2.3V filaments and you only need one battery). A gel battery and this converter wouldn't cost much more than 30x 9V, and a basic trickle charger would only add a few dollars. This would make a good "emergency power" Field Day rig -- especially with the VFO vs. crystals to find CW frequencies that aren't jammed solid. From what I heard in later videos, I gather you tune this by matching tone to a known-frequency receiver? How did they control those before scopes and frequency counters -- one of those marker frequency generators (I've got one of those, albeit solid state)? But even with one of those, how do you know which harmonic you're tuning to? Worst case, my SB-102 receives well (even though I can't transmit with it -- bad component somewhere in the finals that I haven't the skills to find) and tunes accurately...
We built a 1929 style Hartley oscillator many years ago during a Summer cabin stay in Dawson, Yukon Canada. I worked my uncle, W6KVB (SK) down in San Diego (barely) with its 3 watts. He gave me a 437C report and on his QSL he called my rig a "Yukon Hartley." He wrote this was because "Yukon Hartley copy that lashup!" 73 Mike W4RN
Great video Mike and I was glad to get you in the log for my first BK. I'm looking forward to the next video in this series and would love for you to continue on to 40M -- I couldn't get my rig to oscillate cleanly enough so had to stick to 80. Hope to hear during the Linc Cundall event!
The most common Diameter is about 3" or 76mm OD Tubing. For a High C to L ratio, the 80M coil can be 8 to 12T Spaced a half to one Dia. More C less Turns to hit 80M.
@@MIKROWAVE1 ... So: (1) I could wind 8 to 12T, using 3" diameter PVC pipe as a form? (remove the PVC afterwards of course). (2) And does the 8-to-12T include the 3T that goes to the antenna? (cut to separate it from the large body of the coil?) -- So if i do 12T, there would be a 9T coil and a small 3T coil? (3) Please, what does "spaced a half to one Dia." mean? The spacing between each turn? You don't mean space each turn 3" apart. (4) What is the OD diameter of the tubing itself? Thanks, appreciate your guidance. I've started putting some of the parts for this into a can.
@@MIKROWAVE1 ... So: (1) I could wind the coil (8 to 12T) using a 3" diameter piece of PVC pipe (remove the pipe afterwards of course)? (2) What should the OD of the tubing itself (bought at the hardware store) be? (3) If i wind 12T, does that include the 3T going to the antenna, so i would put a break in the coil, so there would be a 3T coil and a 9T coil? (4) The turns "spaced a half to one diameter" -- does that mean the diameter of the tubing? I guess it does. (5) Less turns means it goes *lower* in freq? Actually i would probably want this to work on 40 meters. (6) Thanks for your help. I am getting together the needed parts, putting them in a can. I ordered two of the tubes off eBay. ((Also, i posted this earlier but when i tried to edit it, it disappeared. Apologies; i've been having all kinds of problems using UA-cam and my Chrome browser.)
Mike, have enjoyed learning from your channel. A couple of years ago my father in law died and I cleaned out his workshop. Among other things I found a large hard suitcase full of NOS vacuum tubes. He was in the navy signal core during the Korean war. My First project was to turn a cheap Fender Frontman solid state amp into a 5F1 Fender Champ. This year I think I'll be trying to get my Ham license and get on the air with these old tubes. I'll be looking for you
Amazing that the 27 tube will do about 1-3 watts RF power output. There is a more modern miniature tube that does have RF power ratings. The 6C4 tube has 5.5 watt class C rating. Stands to reason most any low to medium Mu triode would work here..
Nothing wrong with starting with a proper power tube to breadboard the breadboard! But for the 1929 contest, it must have been in existence before 1930. Most folks transition to the 10/210 family of Triodes in these transmitters, after playing with the low cost 27 for a while. And I have seen folks run them at higher voltages than recommended.
Even better. 227s were actually manufactured in the 20s. The contest allows all types however, as long as the parent tube design was from the 20s. For instance a Chinese 211 would be OK.
There are many to choose from, if you can not find a 27, or 227. WE27, E424N, REN904 are Equiv. but 4V FIL or Any of the H2, H210, 210RC types will work, with proper filament keying. They have no cathode.
Power Supply first. Most folks use a DC supply for the filament to get started quick. For the HV, back to Back 3A transformers and rectify on the other end to get 160V or so.
Hi Mike. My most recent Valve TX (based on the RT-6 1950's CIA Spy TX) Runs from 12V :-o 6.3V DC regulated from the 12V and the 300V from a small Chinese SMPS. I get over the RFI by using the enable and shutting it down during RX. Looking forward to this build. Always looking out for interesting sounding CW tones on the 40/80m bands here in the UK. (G0GGA) @@MIKROWAVE1
Some of the guys want to try something again that did not quite work when they were jonny novices. Others are curious about how grandpa did it. And I already had a life and have left a trail actually, so its for the kids.
Looks like the start of another good series, that said I can think of better ways to to get 2.5V filament power from a 6.3V filament transformer than simply dropping 3.8V (6.7 watts) in a big resistor. If your 6.3V transformer has a dual voltage primary and you live in a 120V country configure it for 240 and feed it 120, giving ~3.15V on the secondary, only 0.65V to drop, 0R33 2W would give 2.57V (well within tolerance) and only burn about 1 watt. Or if the 6.3V winding is center tapped the tube could be run off half the secondary with the same 0R33.
Yes many ideas for this including reprogramming a 5V wall wart switcher.
Very exciting! Can't wait for the next installment!!
🙂 Excellent, thank you Mike. This is sure to be a good a series. I may even have a go at this. A quick check does suggest that the 227 toob is perhaps a little more expensive here in the UK. Maybe around $30.
73's🎙KD9OAM🎧
Gentile Mikrowave1, vorrei costruire questo apparecchio ma mi manca la bobina di blocco...si può autocostruire?
Wonderful 😊 regards from over the pond
Exciting video and looks like a lot of fun to build (safety first) . Looking forward to the next video.
The Next video starts with the supply.
As i recall, 27, 37, 56, 76 and 6C5 (6J5) all belong to same familly and all would probably work well, last two would not be period correct.
Would not use precious and fragile early blue Arcurus.
Great video, great content and superb presentation. All the best
The 6C4 mini tube, with 5.5 watts Class "C" rating, would also be in the same class and would not be period correct ether.
@@JCWise-sf9ww Yes, or as we over the pond call it EC90.
Loktals like 7A4 seems to be forgotten, in radio and hifi.
In fact I would suggest starting with a 6J5/6C5. Once working, adjust filament and substitute your precious!
@@MIKROWAVE1 That would be smartest thing to do.
@@sinisatrlin840 Yes the 7A4 is electrically the same as the 6J5 octal also good one to start with. Almost all Loktals are merely electrical copies of octals.
This is perfect I was just in the process of gathering parts to build one of these transmitters. Most of the tubes used with these transmitters are priced way out of my range the type 27 sounds doable. What about an 807 wired like triode I have a bunch of 807.
Interesting stuff. Back when it was more magic than science. Had to laugh at your first tube with a cathode, we maybe the first tube with an indirectly heated cathode.
That is another reason that I chose the Type 27. It took the center tap and keying discussion off the table.
Great project
I'd be interested in building one of these to run on batteries. For the filament, two cells of NiMH batteries will produce the right voltage under load -- and are rechargeable, of course. In 1929, you'd probably have used a single lead acid cell for the filament (only 2V, but it should still work, just take a little longer to warm up the cathode -- tradeoff is your filament will live longer at lower voltage), or two cells with a (variable?) resistor to regulate filament temperature. For the plate, a bank of 20 9V batteries in series will give 150 V or so under 40 mA load and ought to last at least several hours of transmit time -- which doesn't count down when your key is open, so might last weeks or longer in actual use. Depending on the size of your A battery, you might have to swap it out for the spare on charge every hour or two, though...
Grandpa used a rotary converter, basically a Mains AC Motor driving a HV Generator. Later Dynamotors came along DC in DC Out. But a Battery Pile would work at this low current drain, no problem. I suggest 30 9V batteries. Of course this 12 Dollar up converter would work! www.amazon.com/Voltage-Converter-%C2%B145V-390V-Capacitor-Charging/dp/B07CMPWMC8/ref=asc_df_B07CMPWMC8/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312111529833&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2824619081832960326&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002293&hvtargid=pla-612783772778&psc=1&mcid=1f822bcb3b5a36cdb9b827e0c49ca26e&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=67656252888&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=312111529833&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2824619081832960326&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002293&hvtargid=pla-612783772778&gclid=CjwKCAiA8NKtBhBtEiwAq5aX2KzbCmd6b5DpUvBzkowXgkXgO_0j5ikJRgIvHftfoa0u6IqlDXY1_hoCMNYQAvD_BwE
@@MIKROWAVE1 Looks like a deal to run the plates off, say, an emergency lighting or UPS gel cell battery (combine with a regulator to get your 2.3V filaments and you only need one battery). A gel battery and this converter wouldn't cost much more than 30x 9V, and a basic trickle charger would only add a few dollars. This would make a good "emergency power" Field Day rig -- especially with the VFO vs. crystals to find CW frequencies that aren't jammed solid. From what I heard in later videos, I gather you tune this by matching tone to a known-frequency receiver? How did they control those before scopes and frequency counters -- one of those marker frequency generators (I've got one of those, albeit solid state)? But even with one of those, how do you know which harmonic you're tuning to?
Worst case, my SB-102 receives well (even though I can't transmit with it -- bad component somewhere in the finals that I haven't the skills to find) and tunes accurately...
Love the video, excited to see more.
We built a 1929 style Hartley oscillator many years ago during a Summer cabin stay in Dawson, Yukon Canada.
I worked my uncle, W6KVB (SK) down in San Diego (barely) with its 3 watts.
He gave me a 437C report and on his QSL he called my rig a "Yukon Hartley."
He wrote this was because "Yukon Hartley copy that lashup!"
73
Mike
W4RN
I saw that - the Serial "Canadian Mounties vs the Atomic Invaders" right?
Great video Mike and I was glad to get you in the log for my first BK. I'm looking forward to the next video in this series and would love for you to continue on to 40M -- I couldn't get my rig to oscillate cleanly enough so had to stick to 80. Hope to hear during the Linc Cundall event!
BK?
@@Capecodham BK - Bruce Kelly CW memorial contest. He's referring to a contact he had with Mike during that contest.
@@myvair I wonder how much time he saved not typing ruce elly?
👍Thank you sir.
What diameter should the coil(s) be? ... This is great, thanks.
The most common Diameter is about 3" or 76mm OD Tubing. For a High C to L ratio, the 80M coil can be 8 to 12T Spaced a half to one Dia. More C less Turns to hit 80M.
@@MIKROWAVE1 ... So:
(1) I could wind 8 to 12T, using 3" diameter PVC pipe as a form? (remove the PVC afterwards of course).
(2) And does the 8-to-12T include the 3T that goes to the antenna? (cut to separate it from the large body of the coil?) -- So if i do 12T, there would be a 9T coil and a small 3T coil?
(3) Please, what does "spaced a half to one Dia." mean? The spacing between each turn? You don't mean space each turn 3" apart.
(4) What is the OD diameter of the tubing itself?
Thanks, appreciate your guidance. I've started putting some of the parts for this into a can.
@@MIKROWAVE1 ... So:
(1) I could wind the coil (8 to 12T) using a 3" diameter piece of PVC pipe (remove the pipe afterwards of course)?
(2) What should the OD of the tubing itself (bought at the hardware store) be?
(3) If i wind 12T, does that include the 3T going to the antenna, so i would put a break in the coil, so there would be a 3T coil and a 9T coil?
(4) The turns "spaced a half to one diameter" -- does that mean the diameter of the tubing? I guess it does.
(5) Less turns means it goes *lower* in freq? Actually i would probably want this to work on 40 meters.
(6) Thanks for your help. I am getting together the needed parts, putting them in a can. I ordered two of the tubes off eBay. ((Also, i posted this earlier but when i tried to edit it, it disappeared. Apologies; i've been having all kinds of problems using UA-cam and my Chrome browser.)
Bisakah membuat pemancar fm, dengan tube
Pemancar FM tipe tabung adalah proyek yang bagus. Saya akan memasukkannya ke dalam daftar video saya.
@@MIKROWAVE1 saya tunggu vidionya master
You make some great videos Mike. Fun stuff, 73s
Mike, have enjoyed learning from your channel. A couple of years ago my father in law died and I cleaned out his workshop. Among other things I found a large hard suitcase full of NOS vacuum tubes. He was in the navy signal core during the Korean war. My First project was to turn a cheap Fender Frontman solid state amp into a 5F1 Fender Champ. This year I think I'll be trying to get my Ham license and get on the air with these old tubes. I'll be looking for you
I built a Guitar amp for my son as Fender clone with a big box and 6V6 P-P outputs. That has been my only Guitar Amp build.
Amazing that the 27 tube will do about 1-3 watts RF power output. There is a more modern miniature tube that does have RF power ratings. The 6C4 tube has 5.5 watt class C rating. Stands to reason most any low to medium Mu triode would work here..
Nothing wrong with starting with a proper power tube to breadboard the breadboard! But for the 1929 contest, it must have been in existence before 1930. Most folks transition to the 10/210 family of Triodes in these transmitters, after playing with the low cost 27 for a while. And I have seen folks run them at higher voltages than recommended.
Great video Mike. I have a 227. I presume that would work as well. Next maybe an Amp from the 20s or 30s.
Even better. 227s were actually manufactured in the 20s. The contest allows all types however, as long as the parent tube design was from the 20s. For instance a Chinese 211 would be OK.
Great video Mike! I have had trouble looking for the type 27 tube in Europe, and was wondering if you know any other usable tubes from that period?
There are many to choose from, if you can not find a 27, or 227. WE27, E424N, REN904 are Equiv. but 4V FIL or Any of the H2, H210, 210RC types will work, with proper filament keying. They have no cathode.
This might be a good project for glassblowers who want to make their own triode.
Yes!
The ball is now rolling. I've just bought a Type 27 tube. Going to have to build this now ;-)
Power Supply first. Most folks use a DC supply for the filament to get started quick. For the HV, back to Back 3A transformers and rectify on the other end to get 160V or so.
Hi Mike. My most recent Valve TX (based on the RT-6 1950's CIA Spy TX) Runs from 12V :-o 6.3V DC regulated from the 12V and the 300V from a small Chinese SMPS. I get over the RFI by using the enable and shutting it down during RX. Looking forward to this build. Always looking out for interesting sounding CW tones on the 40/80m bands here in the UK. (G0GGA) @@MIKROWAVE1
I did this kind of crap 60 years ago, what’s the point of do this today? Get a life.
Some of the guys want to try something again that did not quite work when they were jonny novices. Others are curious about how grandpa did it. And I already had a life and have left a trail actually, so its for the kids.