Notice that "first listed damage instance" of a weapon is a slightly misleading description (I thought it would be too boring to dig deeper), instead of weapons with multiple fire modes like kuva hind (which has auto/burst/semi) or Incarnon weapons only getting the buff in one of their fire modes, they actually get it on the first damage instance of each set, what I mean by that is that such weapons are internally broken up into fire mode collections and in each of these collections only the first damage instance (regardless of it hitting an enemy or not) is the only one that gets the buff, and these collections are what I referred to as "weapons" in the vid. So something like Stahlta will get the buff on both the first hit of the Auto fire (which is all there is) and the first hit of the charge attack (which is the on impact). One more note about the Helmet of corpus Tech units, if you were wondering if the reason for the incorrect shield gate values is the helmet, and whether or not removing it would fix that. I already had done tests and noticed the helmet is purely visual, but as a result of further testing I did realize something interesting, while removing the helmet won't give you increased Shield Bypass on headshots it will actually fix the incorrect UI numbers, so this can help you more accurately figure out the shield bypass values on this enemy. (I didn't test on other enemy types so it may or may not work similarly on them)
Just to make sure I'm understanding. This is to mean each individual attack correct? Staying with the Hind since it's already been mentioned, every bullet in a burst would get the bonus damage, and this is because each bullet only has a single stage or instance of damage when it strikes a Target? The tonkor on the other hand has two stages each time a shot is fired, the physical projectile striking a target, and the explosion from said projectile shortly after. And so only the physical projectile striking a Target gets the bonus damage? Am I understanding you correctly?
I did some testing and found the same thing with the helmets. My guess is this discrepancy is the damage pop-up including damage dealt to the helmet, like it's an object with an additional health pool. It seems to appear on any corpus unit with a detachable helmet. Headshot damage, gated or otherwise, appears normal to me after the helmet is gone. I tried testing with techrot enemies as well, and I can find discrepancies in the UI and actual damage when I hit a weakpoint, too, shield gate or no. However, it's not 100% consistent for some reason, as sometimes the represented damage value does seem to be correct. It looks like whatever the 'weakpoint object' is for them will also break, but it's not visible when.
That's actually still not an accurate description of how GunCO works, there are weapons that have only an AOE component, like the Stug and Balefire Charger, where GunCO does not apply to them even tho they only deal 1 instance of dmg, so from that you'd think it doesn't apply to AOE right? But there's stuff like the Mutalist Cernos and Pox that make a spore cloud that is most certainly AOE but still applies GunCO. Its hard to make a blanket statement for GunCO mostly bcz it works in a seemingly arbitrary way, some stuff gets aditive, some stuff gets multiplicative, some stuff get more stats from the buff than they should, some get less. Players actually catalogued this stuff bcs of how much it varies, it's actually on the wiki altho idk how up to date it is.
OMG THE BEAM RAMP BEING ENEMY-LOCAL IS ACTUALLY MINDBLOWING you managed to cram so much useful (and for me - revolutionary) info into one video, it's super impressive
yes this was boggling my mind post koumei corpus was such a joke up till jade shadows and now i was wondering why they were doing good damage on my frames while i was farming the sisters for my 1999 prep
shield gating is a double edged sword, warframes players abuse it and get trolled by it also corpus enemies also get shield gating and you will notice it if you dont headshot\weakpoint hit them
@thevoid7332 but that's not a true headshot with full mechanics at all - for example, it won't trigger headshot-based abilities like Harrow's entire kit
@@Necroxion You can headshot the Tenet Arca Plasmor, but it's difficult to trigger because of the size of its projectile, since the lower part of the projectile ends up hitting the body before the main part of the projectile can hit the head. If you aim above the head so that the lower part of the projectile hits their head, you will trigger headshot effects. The same is true of Nataruk.
Wow I only knew about multishot's interaction with beam weapons, the status chance weirdness and everything else in the video was all brand new! Amazing work, this is so cool
Ya. I knew it multiplied the values... But I always figured it was a flat cake. Like 1.8 just multiplying it by that 1.8 rather than sometimes 1 sometimes 2 like standard multishot does.
The Galvanized status mods are so much more broken than you could ever conceive, it's not just applying the effect to the first component of the weapon. They are completely broken on projectiles in such special ways (mostly not applying all of a projectiles damage in calculation) and even some hitscan weapons don't work properly.
You are correct, but I like to share things that feel like they won't be patched just because I talked about them, Those Galv Multiplication stuff really do feel like bugs that could be patched at any time, so I don't bother to talk or implement them in my calculator, unless DE says it is intentional!
@@GeneralXikto that "bug" has been in the game for so many years that I'm pretty sure DE knows about it but just won't fix it since it doesn't reach game breaking levels of power creep on any weapons
The thing with status effects and multishot on beam weapons, to my knowledge, only came into existence a few years ago, on the patch where DE changed status chance to be displayed per projectile to fix the interaction with shotguns reaching 100% status chance and abruptly becoming overpowered. I've been taking full advantage of beam weapons ever since without knowing why they were like this. Cool to finally find out.
@@GeneralXikto there will be quite a bit of people interested in weird stuff, but if you think some of it is too niche, you could try making a poll in the community tab on what people would like covered, and maybe leave something out for another community post? i'd assume it takes less effort, but the info will still be useful and interesting at least to somebody
I apologize but I don't want more Warframe players to subscribe to my channel atm, even though I'm going to post my like what four year in progress kind of two year but also four year in progress recommended series not too far in the future it's probably not going to take more than a year at this point and that will probably have a lot of Warframe players subscribing which is driving me nuts because I want to move on to game development I don't want more subscribers that only want Warframe videos from me, I can make hundreds of thousands more Warframe videos that people would love (as in, in theory, with high chance of it being true if I could create similar kind of videos for years) but I won't (as in I wouldn't enjoy them) and thus they're not going to happen because if I don't enjoy creating them the end product will become miserable and terrible, and insufferable, serving nothing other than just to make money which is completely against what I want and who I am.
Ohhhh! I sooo hope that the Galvanized Aptitude theory holds up for every weapon. This would make classifying them so much easier! Thanks for the research! :D
Uh..... It doesn't XD The details I mentioned in the pinned comment show you how I didn't want to get too technical and ended up making it oversimplified and further confuse some people!
@@GeneralXikto I mean, even the more complicated version in the comment is better than always looking for the spreadsheet and hoping it is up-to-date! :D
Wow, Thanks for your hard work and knowledge. Im not very good with math so this is amazing to me that youre able to figure things out with a little clever reasoning. You rock!
@@radicant7283 now I feel bad. I use them too but because I like them. The great for testing heavy bombards a little annoying because of the back of their heads. Can be inconsistent
There are some cases where multishot on beam weapons effect the number of beams, but it’s only one ones that natively shoot multiple beams, and it’s only NEGATIVE multishot which effects it by removing beams.
If there are multiple beams and damage numbers, then it probably isn't classified as a beam weapon at all, like opticor which if I remember right is straight up a hitscan weapon.
@ I mean, that’s how a lot of beam weapons do actually work. Like, the one with this fact in the trivia section of the wiki page is the Quanta, which uses the same projectile type as something like the Nukor or Phantasma.
Man i wish panthera had back it's infinite base punch through. For primary fire on enemies. Utilizing its bouncing mechanic was so much more fun. When I could do that. They finally fixed the base panther to allow punch through on it again. But when they had infinite enemy punched through that was great.
@GeneralXikto thank you. I can't tell you how many times I've squealed about my love for that weapon. I remember meeting people who thought it hit like a water gun. Back during the early days before the aqua plasma had its head shot damaged removed. The panthera was basically a long-range version of that gun. The satisfaction of going down long corridors. Shooting down a line of enemy and watching it bounced back through them. Hitting them on the way in and on the way out. Flooding in the area with buzz saws everywhere. I'm loved putting high fire rate and multi-shot. Even heavy caliber because it has an awesome interaction with panthera. Making it shoot like a cone. The buzz saws have pretty decent size. Having high fire rate and multi-shot made up for the original panthera's critical chance and all right status. I was so hyped when I got a prime. Just to find out that they nerfed it. Then any multi-shot on panthera prime. Made the projectiles invisible. How are you supposed to do trick shots with that T-T And because of the radius affected it can't benefit from punch through. So now dead enemies can body block your projectiles. Shooting enemy is going to bounce back at you and hit basically nothing. Eat up your entire clip. It's such a waste. At the time and I don't know if it's true anymore Pantera was the highest base damage out of all automatics in the game. Automatic weapons without punch through!? Really starts to sting in high levels. So the reason punch through was so good If if the enemies became too tanky for you. And it took an entire clip just to kill one. All you had to do was kite them. Into a line and that one kill turns into multiple kills. So you can still use it as an automatic weapon. Instead of treating it like a semi fire. Weapon. It took away from its identity. At least with the way I like to build it. Thankfully I'm LR4 So it can still do well. I just know it onec was a secret weapon that people did not know about. Edit. Almost forgot to mention the reasoning for why they made panthera prime multi-shot invisible. They claimed it was for performance. Yet just days later they released a new prime mod for blast radius. Such bs
I understand your frustration and I'm with you I was there I have been thinking the exact same way as you are right now and you are correct but a few small spots there are things that you could improve upon for example the reasons that developers do such things were completely foreign to me until I myself became someone that is working on games and then I realize what they mean when they say this will cause performance issues to you it seems like you think if you increase the blast radius of an AOE weapon it will greatly impact the performance but that's actually a very small one and what it is is a GPU thing since it is mostly more shaders and effects which GPU handles, but the the cone thing for panthera I get the vibe, I'm not completely sure but I get the vibe that it's a CPU thing (which is far more annoying especially considering that most of this stuff will be done in one core of your CPU so a throttle is going to happen much faster) and it's almost looking like a flashing thing that's super intensive on the CPU especially so if they are instantiating that effect and having to add it and then delete it and then garbage collect that deletion and then add another one and then delete it and then garbage collect it again, also apologies for the late response as a UA-cam Creator it is really difficult for me to see the comments in a comment I mean I can do it in theory but it usually isn't good for my mental health so I would really appreciate it if you jumped in my discord server and we had a really fun talk about such things at some point in time even if you're reading this like a year after I sent it, also apologies for the broken English up there I'm using voice to text because I don't feel like typing right now I'm not in a good place since I'm a bit sick.
beam ramp being local is crazy. headshot shield gate matches my gameplay experience. remember rule 2: double tap. nailing down that CO bonues is applying to the first listed firemode is a crazy find. now if only you could identify the underlying logic for why some are multiplicative vs additive. i feel like analysis like this might actually help pablo scope out the work required to resolve all of this if he hasnt already. (priorities and WSJF are the bane of resolving spaghetti code that issn't a brekaing bug)
Most of this knowledge is in the wild in the same way that Gun CO being multiplicative instead of additive to the damage formula on projectile weapons is. None of this was really news to me, but I will admit I never considered that they just recycled the Gun CO code for Cold and Puncture (I knew they worked that way, just never thought about how it's probably the same code behind the scenes doing it).
Corpus tech have armor which in warframe, armor does not change the damage value displayed if you were confused. So if you want real numbers put dmg reduction values in health to your calculations on damage displayed is only damage inputed for simplicity bloat reduction efficiency and not run damage received after calculations or the game would bug then crash.
Just to prevent you from editing your message later, you commented and I quote: >>>"Corpus tech have armor which in warframe, armor does not change the damage value displayed if you were confused. So if you want real numbers put dmg reduction values in health to your calculations on damage displayed is only damage inputed for simplicity bloat reduction efficiency and not run damage received after calculations or the game would bug then crash."
@GeneralXikto was thinking more of how the game excectues it as a armor value not inherent on the target but attached to after calculation per hit, game calculates how much damage something does if not reduced by a direct percentage but doesn't calculate armor into its equation. As it could be how the devs programmed enemy sheild gate to, like an arcane, apply armor to a damage calculation on sheild break, then add piercing armor effect if a head shot. This way it takes less load by not programing an entity as two seperate targets and forgot to make the armor piercing on sheild break headshot a full armor negate on applied damage calculation. Since the armor stripping can not be applied to an outside bandaid feature to make the sheild system more interesting and probably tried damage reduction route but something wrong may have happened and doing it this way patches up a major to minor glitch.
There's a ton of hidden things and wonky coding going on in WF. Back when they released incarn weapons, you could bring certain values to negative which loops back to the max value of a signed DWORD. There's also certain account buffs to damage that happen for whatever reason. I stopped playing WF more than a couple years ago, and still might have my notes on testing mechanics/damage if you're interested. There also was a discord way back dedicated to breaking the game through weird interactions with weapons/mods/abilities though that's dead now.
That's interesting for sure, and sure send me research notes, I am not big into bugged stuff (I usually wait for fixed stuff) but I love learning about deep mechanics that are legit.
Yeap... DE has had these issues with Corpus since the earliest moments I can remember. It's especially painful when dealing with corrrupted enemy variants AND really bad... I've never seen them try to fix it. I'm sure it would even boost server performance if they could tackle this properly.
I just assumed that anything listed as "radial damage/attack" in the gun stats was never affected by GunCO, which is why it works normally on Plasmor. I think that's consistent but I wonder if there's some strange exceptions
@@GeneralXiktoThe pinned comment doesn't elaborate. How does Proboscis Cernos differ when everything outside the charged shot is under "Radial Attack"?
If it was only radial stuff and anything that is a secondary effect (or more technically a secondary damage instance of the same fire mode collection) could get the buff, then the unlisted damage instance of Proboscis Cernos is a non radial "direct damage" so it should have gotten the buff, but it doesn't get the buff, that is what convinced me that it isn't about radial or not, it is simply a matter of order of operations in each fire mode collection.
@GeneralXikto I can't really say internally but I would realistically consider all of it (the appendages and the explosion) as radial attack so it makes sense to me. I suppose the "first instance" thing is what happens but they do whatever UI trick or whatever to make sure that conventional wisdom for a "Radial Attack" makes sense to not be applied
@@GeneralXikto The Proboscis Cernos tendrils are a radial attack. Proboscis Cernos works the exact same as the Tenet Plinx alt fire, it just has fancy visuals to make it look like the targets are getting hit by tendrils
Man, I've played WF for a long time, I take 2-3yr long breaks from WF since Beta to not drain my soul with grind, and I just started again about 3-months ago. I immediately was wondering why tf "Augmented Enemy Shields" missions vs "Augmented Enemy Shields" condition missions for Sorties were so LUDICROUSLY different in TTK... If there was a way to see how those 300% increases ACTUALLY throw off the already dumb calculations for headshots against corpus, I'd bet it's doing something even funkier instead of a straight x3 multiplier. I know my boy Amprex got nerfed since I was away, but man, I kitted it out and updated it for even more DPS and status spread than ever... I leave mission almost immediately in annoyance and go grab big ole Hildy.
Yeah I've been having a creeping suspicion that shield ospreys don't, in fact, give over 100K shielding Interesting to see how janky it is under the hood
Would the helmet give the Corpus units an additional armor value? Seeing how the damage is calculated on the enemy side the damage numbers could be influenced by armor values in the way Warframes also receive a flat procentual damage reduction on health, but not on shields.
Physically speaking, it does make sense that the ramp up is per-enemy. It would be like that in real life, if you don't count the secondary beams jumping to that target you just switched to earlier. That would be because the target's surface still has to properly react to the beam to get the intended reaction, and 0.6s is quite a short time by today's laser gun standards against ceramic or similar. This ain't real life tho.
Question. What is the highest hp enemy that you could find in a endurance run? Would like to have a number so I know if I am over modding my weapons on damage.
great job, now teach me how to 1shot nechramech demolishers consistently, i dont really have any issue dealing with them, but since i do the the disruption mission to level cap at least once a week im always looking for more efficient ways of going about it. and yes the 8-10 seconds to dump a mag into them does mess with the flow of momentum especially when using ash or gauss
@@hadesfiness631 trinity 2nd neg duration will melt them in 1/2 cast,sevagoth 2/1 combo should work too but i never runned sevagoth vs high lvl demolist
If condition overload like buffs only apply to the first listed damage, does this mean that weapons like the Dread that have Quick Shot and Charged Shot don't get the buff on the shot you're wanting to use most often?
@@GeneralXikto I did, Quick Shot and Charged Shot are listed under the fire mode. I wanted to see if this would be an exception since the 2 damage listings are meant to represent min and max stats based on charge level, but when I tested the Dread with just Galvanized Aptitude modded it was inconsistent. Some quick shots didn't see any increased damage from states effects, but some did (possibly because I charged for 0.1 seconds longer), and for the bonus crit from cold procs both quick and charged seemed to be benefiting.
What counts as direct damage isn't "the first listed damage instance on a weapon", that's pretty silly and arbitrary. In most cases it just comes down to what the triggering instance is. If it's not radial damage it will count as a direct hit, Arca Plasmor is not radial damage, it simply has a large projectile hitbox. There exist weapons with no direct hit damage, like Talons. The explosion is not affected by direct damage mods, despite being the only listed damage instance. So what you said is definitely a bit misleading and not really correct.
Read the pinned comment. also funny note on talons, they kinda did them dirty, they gave em a perma-miss first fire mode and a custom UI so what is internally first fire mode is not shown as the first mode, this is not unheard of since Proboscis Cernos which lead me to this conclusion also has a hidden fire mode which you can find in wiki but not in game. (Obviously that is what I assume based on other tests, it isn't like I opened the game code lol)
Any chance you might know exactly why Enervate procs random red crits if fire-rate is high enough? I mean it's easy to say "fire-rate is faster than the check for 6 orange crits" but that may not be correct.
I haven't played the latest update yet, so I haven't had the chance to test the new weapons. At the very least I can say that given how cpu threads work, FR being faster than the check doesn't make any sense.
DE won't fix any math issues unless enough people are complaining that it is a significant enough thing to need fixing. Saddest thing ever about my favourite game is that most smaller things just get ignored and forgotten and there is almost no point in starting a forum post unless you can convince lots of people to bring activity to the post.
@GeneralXikto it was regarding the "direct damage from Galvanized Aptitude" bit at the end, but only just noticed the pinned message, which answered everything. Apologies for the confusion 🙇♀️
You are technically correct, but also kinda incorrect. You see arca plasmor CAN headshot but it has a default headshot multiplier of 1x instead of 3x (as I mentioned in the vid), not to mention if it wasn't an actual headshot it wouldn't be getting any sort of damage difference between body shot and headshot, but we can see from the health bar that it dealt more damage.
@GeneralXikto I couldnt understand it... as far as I understand it either doesnt give the listed galvanised buffs and even if it does It wouldnt stack twice say for example the added direct damage buff it stacks up to 2x but bc of the different dmg sets you mentioned itd only stack up to 1 stack .... right?
Am i reading this correctly? An incarnon weapon will only receive the "direct damage" buff on the first shot fired and every shot afterwards does not receive any buff?
Nope, you have to apply that to what happens every hit, if you have like 5 different hits that happen every shot (not talking about multi shot) then only the first gets the buff, for example, lenz has 3 of them, projectile impact, bubble creation, and bubble collapse, thus only the first one is counted as directed damage, that is the intended effect of the mod, though there are some bugged exceptions as it is Warframe, but they are very rare.
@GeneralXikto ahhh okay I see, so for example, it would work with the Torod incarnon for all of its damage (since the chain isn't separately listed damage) But for the Strun incarnon it would only affect the direct hit?
In theory yes, however incarnon genesis weapons are a whole other deal, they usually are fine, but sometimes they do something completely different and bugged, like burston incarnon which somehow gets the bonus on multiple fire modes and then also calculates the total bonus differently! that's a whole other can of worms!
NO no, I probably should have made this more clear, by "first listed damage in weapon" I actually meant the internal concept of weapon rather than the external one, basically each one of stuff like Auto/Burst/Semi fire modes of Kuva hind or Incarnon weapons count as separate weapons, for a more general term instead of weapon perhaps fire mode collection might be more accurate, basically when you press the fire button, the first damage instance that shows up (regardless of it hitting an enemy or not)
please explain why life strike on a fully modded exalted blade which is being buffed like 2 or three times over only gets like 5 health back from sortie ambulas. I tried running numbers and never understood what was happening
That's a good question, though sadly since it doesn't fall in my are of expertise, It is unlikely that I will get the time to explore it, I am more of a weapon guy, exalted weapons are a whole other can of worms that I am not an expert in!
I don't believe you have come to the correct conclusion regarding Condition Overload. Condition Overload is not based on attack index, and is actually calculated during hitreg and not on the weapon itself. Condition Overload ACTUALLY cares about the attack type, not the attack index. 'Hitscan' and 'Projectile' attacks benefit from CO, 'radial' attacks do not(usually). The Tenet Arca Plasmor works because it is not a 'radial' attack, it is a projectile with infinite body punch through (hence why it doesn't have a radius stat). When people talk about AoE weapons, they are referring to Radial attacks, meaning that the Tenet Arca Plasmor is categorically NOT an AoE weapon, no matter how you feel about it. Because condition overload is calculated on hitreg, however, there's some quirks to it. On Hitscan radial weapons like the Burston Incarnon, radial attack damage is combined with hitscan attack damage in direct targets before any damage modifiers apply. This means that Condition Overload will multiply both the hitscan attack index and the radial attack index on targets that were hit with the hitscan. This example demonstrates that attack index is not a factor, since in hitscan AoE weapons CO is applying to both attack indexes.
I am not 100% sure either way, however my initial theory was the same as yours, and I had it implemented as thus in the code, the thing that made me question it, was the seemingly instantiated tendrils of proboscis cernos, which do not get any benefit from CO like buffs. I haven't delved into multiplicative CO buffs because I was and am under the impression that they will eventually be removed, however, if we go by your theory and assume the direct damage buff mitigations for stuff like CO and puncture and cold are happening in the code that is responsible for distributing the damage to enemies within the radius, it wouldn't matter whether or not the weapon is hitscan or projectile because once it goes through radial code it would have the same things applied, your idea of it being on hit-reg doesn't make sense to me because just because it isn't like all projectile weapons don't get the buff, we can see that projectile weapons still get the buff only their radial portion isn't getting it, so it doesn't make sense for that code to be projectile specific. at the end of the day, further testing is required, but that burston AOE example getting the buff does throw a wrench in my theory, however since the multiplier is not normal on it I can still claim it is simply bugged, but yeah if we find a good example I guess it would debunk my hit index theory. And who knows, it could also end up being a galaxies and nebulas situation where both could be correct just in different places, I could easily see the whole multiplicative CO thing happening because of a different version of radial damage code that is lacking the CO removal and such.
It's not wise to assume that AoEs generated off hitscan would work the same as AoE's generated from Projectiles, as Projectiles and Hitscan have numerous other differences in how they interact with damage calculations (see Conditional crit chance bonuses like Acuity/Biting Frost for one example). Much of this argument however seems to stem from the false notion that Proboscis Cernos's Tendrils are programmed as projectiles. The Tendrils are a radial attack that occurs before the explosion. The tendrils are generated as a visual effect but the attack itself is a radial attack with a 9m range and no damage falloff.
All of this could have been resolved with a simple look at the wiki pages for the relevant weapons, where all their extracted item statistics have been recorded
Do the ramp up include fire rate? Because while using kohm, i would start shooting then stop shooting and when i continue shooting that enemy, sometimes the fire rate stays high
I haven't done any in-depth tests with Kohm but at the very least I can say that the FireRate ramp up is not an in enemy one, that would be VERY noticeable, not sure about any other weirdness but the ramp up issues I talked about in this vid only apply to Beam weapons.
@@GeneralXikto im joking with some dev notes from some games that say "we fixed some mechanics" and its a 1 to 2 gb update hahaha. Since you said some mechanics dont work the way we think. just that.
Notice that "first listed damage instance" of a weapon is a slightly misleading description (I thought it would be too boring to dig deeper), instead of weapons with multiple fire modes like kuva hind (which has auto/burst/semi) or Incarnon weapons only getting the buff in one of their fire modes, they actually get it on the first damage instance of each set, what I mean by that is that such weapons are internally broken up into fire mode collections and in each of these collections only the first damage instance (regardless of it hitting an enemy or not) is the only one that gets the buff, and these collections are what I referred to as "weapons" in the vid.
So something like Stahlta will get the buff on both the first hit of the Auto fire (which is all there is) and the first hit of the charge attack (which is the on impact).
One more note about the Helmet of corpus Tech units, if you were wondering if the reason for the incorrect shield gate values is the helmet, and whether or not removing it would fix that. I already had done tests and noticed the helmet is purely visual, but as a result of further testing I did realize something interesting, while removing the helmet won't give you increased Shield Bypass on headshots it will actually fix the incorrect UI numbers, so this can help you more accurately figure out the shield bypass values on this enemy. (I didn't test on other enemy types so it may or may not work similarly on them)
Just to make sure I'm understanding. This is to mean each individual attack correct? Staying with the Hind since it's already been mentioned, every bullet in a burst would get the bonus damage, and this is because each bullet only has a single stage or instance of damage when it strikes a Target?
The tonkor on the other hand has two stages each time a shot is fired, the physical projectile striking a target, and the explosion from said projectile shortly after. And so only the physical projectile striking a Target gets the bonus damage?
Am I understanding you correctly?
I did some testing and found the same thing with the helmets. My guess is this discrepancy is the damage pop-up including damage dealt to the helmet, like it's an object with an additional health pool. It seems to appear on any corpus unit with a detachable helmet. Headshot damage, gated or otherwise, appears normal to me after the helmet is gone.
I tried testing with techrot enemies as well, and I can find discrepancies in the UI and actual damage when I hit a weakpoint, too, shield gate or no. However, it's not 100% consistent for some reason, as sometimes the represented damage value does seem to be correct. It looks like whatever the 'weakpoint object' is for them will also break, but it's not visible when.
Except this cannot be the case because gunCO doesn't work on the Stug
That's actually still not an accurate description of how GunCO works, there are weapons that have only an AOE component, like the Stug and Balefire Charger, where GunCO does not apply to them even tho they only deal 1 instance of dmg, so from that you'd think it doesn't apply to AOE right? But there's stuff like the Mutalist Cernos and Pox that make a spore cloud that is most certainly AOE but still applies GunCO. Its hard to make a blanket statement for GunCO mostly bcz it works in a seemingly arbitrary way, some stuff gets aditive, some stuff gets multiplicative, some stuff get more stats from the buff than they should, some get less. Players actually catalogued this stuff bcs of how much it varies, it's actually on the wiki altho idk how up to date it is.
@@elon_chan sounds about right. Atleast the inconsistency makes weapon modding a little more varied i guess. Thanks for the info.
Kids ignoring algebra: “When am I ever going to use this?”
WarFrame players:
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Best comment
Managing finances too! That way you can more effectively budget to buy all the prime accesses and skins. Lol
the more you dig in this game the more you discover you dont know nothing about it
its almost like life....
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.
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is warframe... life?
At this point I think even DE don't know how their code works.
You can find a lot of spaghetti coding in a (almost) 12 years old game.
Feels very accurate lol especially by you have to look up EVERY aspect of the game yourself but I suppose that’s part of the grind
Honestly very true
OMG THE BEAM RAMP BEING ENEMY-LOCAL IS ACTUALLY MINDBLOWING
you managed to cram so much useful (and for me - revolutionary) info into one video, it's super impressive
The Forbidden Orokin knowledge, finally in my hand - The Sergeant, last words moment before being hit with a stug.
I was wondering why corpus was disgustingly hard compared to well everyone else
All the more reason to use Toxin against them.
yes this was boggling my mind post koumei
corpus was such a joke up till jade shadows
and now i was wondering why they were doing good damage on my frames while i was farming the sisters for my 1999 prep
They still are kind of a joke, but since Armor got massively nerfed Shields got indirect buff.
im still on exemis toxic enemies still killing warframes instantly
@@Jester4460 1 of the acolytes can also nuke you if you dont nuke him in 15 seconds
Im just glad bro is no longer having throat pain and is in good health
I appreciate the sentiment.
Btw chronic hives is a skin condition not a throat condition.
@@GeneralXikto well i confused the two xd either way glad u better
"Forbidden Warframe Knowledge" There isn't even a shred of a lie in this title man. Also, I'm glad you're back and wish you the best.
The shieldgating is so annoying because sometimes you have to shoot the corpus security cameras twice to destroy them and they're lvl 1.
shield gating is a double edged sword, warframes players abuse it and get trolled by it
also corpus enemies also get shield gating and you will notice it if you dont headshot\weakpoint hit them
Hildryn loves enemy shields. They are delicious.
it's annoying asf
jade press 1 camera go bye bye
My brain forbids me from understanding this forbidden knowledge. This one definitely needs its own college course.
4:10 wait, the Arca Plasmor can't headshot anymore
It was specifically nerfed so that Harrow mains couldn't get those sweet headshots all the time
You can use Primary Deadhead to give it a headshot bonus again. This doesn't work with the Basmu however, which also doesn't have a headshot bonus.
@thevoid7332 but that's not a true headshot with full mechanics at all - for example, it won't trigger headshot-based abilities like Harrow's entire kit
Last I checked the Plasmor can still headshot, it just has a headshot multiplier of 1.
@@Necroxion You can headshot the Tenet Arca Plasmor, but it's difficult to trigger because of the size of its projectile, since the lower part of the projectile ends up hitting the body before the main part of the projectile can hit the head. If you aim above the head so that the lower part of the projectile hits their head, you will trigger headshot effects. The same is true of Nataruk.
@theninjaguy2 I mean, I always just jumped over the foes to headshot with the regular Arca Plasmor back in the day as a Harrow main
8:00 Vtuber jumpscare 😦
It is just a time saving measure, the Vtuber model is a stand in till I make my own original model.
@GeneralXikto Looks nice 🤙
Wow I only knew about multishot's interaction with beam weapons, the status chance weirdness and everything else in the video was all brand new! Amazing work, this is so cool
I've been trying to find info about beam weapons, especially how multishot affects them, for ages now and finally my search had concluded
Ya. I knew it multiplied the values... But I always figured it was a flat cake. Like 1.8 just multiplying it by that 1.8 rather than sometimes 1 sometimes 2 like standard multishot does.
Set off damage numbers in the UI, got it!
(˘･_･˘)
The Galvanized status mods are so much more broken than you could ever conceive, it's not just applying the effect to the first component of the weapon. They are completely broken on projectiles in such special ways (mostly not applying all of a projectiles damage in calculation) and even some hitscan weapons don't work properly.
You are correct, but I like to share things that feel like they won't be patched just because I talked about them, Those Galv Multiplication stuff really do feel like bugs that could be patched at any time, so I don't bother to talk or implement them in my calculator, unless DE says it is intentional!
@@GeneralXikto that "bug" has been in the game for so many years that I'm pretty sure DE knows about it but just won't fix it since it doesn't reach game breaking levels of power creep on any weapons
@@Aaron-qg2rfAlso it makes some mid weapons perform good.
@@Aaron-qg2rf they had progress ash finally got fixed.... give them another 8-9ish years.
@@silverwhale2348 Ash got fixed in .. what way ?
lmao WHAT
this is both crazy and hilarious
The thing with status effects and multishot on beam weapons, to my knowledge, only came into existence a few years ago, on the patch where DE changed status chance to be displayed per projectile to fix the interaction with shotguns reaching 100% status chance and abruptly becoming overpowered. I've been taking full advantage of beam weapons ever since without knowing why they were like this. Cool to finally find out.
Good to know!
This was amazing, been playing since 2012 and I'm happy to keep finding out new stuff about Warframe
can't imagine all the effort this took, good job! Also make this a series if there's enough weird stuff to see.
Oh there is, though I am not sure if many people will be interested.
@@GeneralXikto there will be quite a bit of people interested in weird stuff, but if you think some of it is too niche, you could try making a poll in the community tab on what people would like covered, and maybe leave something out for another community post? i'd assume it takes less effort, but the info will still be useful and interesting at least to somebody
I apologize but I don't want more Warframe players to subscribe to my channel atm, even though I'm going to post my like what four year in progress kind of two year but also four year in progress recommended series not too far in the future it's probably not going to take more than a year at this point and that will probably have a lot of Warframe players subscribing which is driving me nuts because I want to move on to game development I don't want more subscribers that only want Warframe videos from me, I can make hundreds of thousands more Warframe videos that people would love (as in, in theory, with high chance of it being true if I could create similar kind of videos for years) but I won't (as in I wouldn't enjoy them) and thus they're not going to happen because if I don't enjoy creating them the end product will become miserable and terrible, and insufferable, serving nothing other than just to make money which is completely against what I want and who I am.
@@GeneralXikto Good luck with whatever you're going to do, im interested in game dev so i don't mind.
it has been 2 months since I've logged into warframe, thank you for this essential information
kids in school: when am i ever going to use any of this irl
warframe and its players: *gives devilish look*
kid in school: damnit
I’m glad your back man, hope your feeling better👍🏾
Thank you.
Ohhhh! I sooo hope that the Galvanized Aptitude theory holds up for every weapon.
This would make classifying them so much easier!
Thanks for the research! :D
Uh..... It doesn't XD
The details I mentioned in the pinned comment show you how I didn't want to get too technical and ended up making it oversimplified and further confuse some people!
@@GeneralXikto I mean, even the more complicated version in the comment is better than always looking for the spreadsheet and hoping it is up-to-date! :D
beam ramp being per-enemy giving me the same feeling i had as a kid when i first learned delicious menudo was made out of cow stomachs
(☉｡☉)!
That is a poetic way to put it!
This game is peak "I only know I know nothing" because 100 hours into it you still don't know what is going on 💀
It is the same 1000 hours in (๑•﹏•)
Wow, Thanks for your hard work and knowledge. Im not very good with math so this is amazing to me that youre able to figure things out with a little clever reasoning. You rock!
i think that the headshot passthrough being suspicious is due to the shield value scaling with level
Corpus tech level 15 is the base level of corpus tech, level 1 to 14 on corpus tech have the same stats as level 15.
I always use the DEveloper's perspective to figure builds.
Close enough. Welcome back noobshowtek
(´。＿。｀)
I beg to differ!
the beam ramp up and the shield gating/headshot one is the most memorable information i got in this video
Please stop hurting Heavy Gunner, I like her 😭
( •̀ ω •́ )✧
@@radicant7283 now I feel bad.
I use them too but because I like them.
The great for testing heavy bombards a little annoying because of the back of their heads. Can be inconsistent
You picked some really good colors for the text and what not, very soothing to the eyes
There are some cases where multishot on beam weapons effect the number of beams, but it’s only one ones that natively shoot multiple beams, and it’s only NEGATIVE multishot which effects it by removing beams.
If there are multiple beams and damage numbers, then it probably isn't classified as a beam weapon at all, like opticor which if I remember right is straight up a hitscan weapon.
@ I mean, that’s how a lot of beam weapons do actually work. Like, the one with this fact in the trivia section of the wiki page is the Quanta, which uses the same projectile type as something like the Nukor or Phantasma.
This is why I never leave the orbiter without my Phantasma Prime..
Oh boy, same.
This is a great video and I look forward to more, even if it's info you might feel is boring.
Man i wish panthera had back it's infinite base punch through. For primary fire on enemies.
Utilizing its bouncing mechanic was so much more fun.
When I could do that.
They finally fixed the base panther to allow punch through on it again.
But when they had infinite enemy punched through that was great.
You my m8 are the one guy looking for fun in a sea of MinMaxer's. You haven't lost your way like us hollows.
@GeneralXikto thank you.
I can't tell you how many times I've squealed about my love for that weapon.
I remember meeting people who thought it hit like a water gun.
Back during the early days before the aqua plasma had its head shot damaged removed.
The panthera was basically a long-range version of that gun.
The satisfaction of going down long corridors.
Shooting down a line of enemy and watching it bounced back through them.
Hitting them on the way in and on the way out.
Flooding in the area with buzz saws everywhere.
I'm loved putting high fire rate and multi-shot.
Even heavy caliber because it has an awesome interaction with panthera.
Making it shoot like a cone.
The buzz saws have pretty decent size.
Having high fire rate and multi-shot made up for the original panthera's critical chance and all right status.
I was so hyped when I got a prime.
Just to find out that they nerfed it.
Then any multi-shot on panthera prime.
Made the projectiles invisible.
How are you supposed to do trick shots with that T-T
And because of the radius affected it can't benefit from punch through.
So now dead enemies can body block your projectiles.
Shooting enemy is going to bounce back at you and hit basically nothing.
Eat up your entire clip.
It's such a waste.
At the time and I don't know if it's true anymore
Pantera was the highest base damage out of all automatics in the game.
Automatic weapons without punch through!?
Really starts to sting in high levels.
So the reason punch through was so good
If if the enemies became too tanky for you.
And it took an entire clip just to kill one.
All you had to do was kite them.
Into a line and that one kill turns into multiple kills.
So you can still use it as an automatic weapon.
Instead of treating it like a semi fire.
Weapon.
It took away from its identity.
At least with the way I like to build it.
Thankfully I'm LR4
So it can still do well.
I just know it onec was a secret weapon that people did not know about.
Edit.
Almost forgot to mention the reasoning for why they made panthera prime multi-shot invisible.
They claimed it was for performance.
Yet just days later they released a new prime mod for blast radius.
Such bs
I understand your frustration and I'm with you I was there I have been thinking the exact same way as you are right now and you are correct but a few small spots there are things that you could improve upon for example the reasons that developers do such things were completely foreign to me until I myself became someone that is working on games and then I realize what they mean when they say this will cause performance issues to you it seems like you think if you increase the blast radius of an AOE weapon it will greatly impact the performance but that's actually a very small one and what it is is a GPU thing since it is mostly more shaders and effects which GPU handles, but the the cone thing for panthera I get the vibe, I'm not completely sure but I get the vibe that it's a CPU thing (which is far more annoying especially considering that most of this stuff will be done in one core of your CPU so a throttle is going to happen much faster) and it's almost looking like a flashing thing that's super intensive on the CPU especially so if they are instantiating that effect and having to add it and then delete it and then garbage collect that deletion and then add another one and then delete it and then garbage collect it again, also apologies for the late response as a UA-cam Creator it is really difficult for me to see the comments in a comment I mean I can do it in theory but it usually isn't good for my mental health so I would really appreciate it if you jumped in my discord server and we had a really fun talk about such things at some point in time even if you're reading this like a year after I sent it, also apologies for the broken English up there I'm using voice to text because I don't feel like typing right now I'm not in a good place since I'm a bit sick.
beam ramp being local is crazy. headshot shield gate matches my gameplay experience. remember rule 2: double tap. nailing down that CO bonues is applying to the first listed firemode is a crazy find. now if only you could identify the underlying logic for why some are multiplicative vs additive. i feel like analysis like this might actually help pablo scope out the work required to resolve all of this if he hasnt already. (priorities and WSJF are the bane of resolving spaghetti code that issn't a brekaing bug)
Pretty sure if they wanted to spend the time finding and fixing multiplicative CO, it wouldn't even take a day, they just haven't decided to do it!
6:47 : this explain why the AOE of the Ignis can headshot even if AEO are not suposed to.
Most of this knowledge is in the wild in the same way that Gun CO being multiplicative instead of additive to the damage formula on projectile weapons is.
None of this was really news to me, but I will admit I never considered that they just recycled the Gun CO code for Cold and Puncture (I knew they worked that way, just never thought about how it's probably the same code behind the scenes doing it).
I mean, I didn't claim no one else has ever thought of any of this! It simply is forbidden knowledge that very few know.
I guess... Knew.
Interesting. DE would like to know your location.
been playing this game for almost 10 years and i still dont know shit😂
6:46 I only question this every waking second of my log-on time in Warframe. Pain
Don't forget to read the pinned comment!
Corpus tech have armor which in warframe, armor does not change the damage value displayed if you were confused.
So if you want real numbers put dmg reduction values in health to your calculations on damage displayed is only damage inputed for simplicity bloat reduction efficiency and not run damage received after calculations or the game would bug then crash.
Just to prevent you from editing your message later, you commented and I quote:
>>>"Corpus tech have armor which in warframe, armor does not change the damage value displayed if you were confused.
So if you want real numbers put dmg reduction values in health to your calculations on damage displayed is only damage inputed for simplicity bloat reduction efficiency and not run damage received after calculations or the game would bug then crash."
@GeneralXikto was thinking more of how the game excectues it as a armor value not inherent on the target but attached to after calculation per hit, game calculates how much damage something does if not reduced by a direct percentage but doesn't calculate armor into its equation. As it could be how the devs programmed enemy sheild gate to, like an arcane, apply armor to a damage calculation on sheild break, then add piercing armor effect if a head shot. This way it takes less load by not programing an entity as two seperate targets and forgot to make the armor piercing on sheild break headshot a full armor negate on applied damage calculation. Since the armor stripping can not be applied to an outside bandaid feature to make the sheild system more interesting and probably tried damage reduction route but something wrong may have happened and doing it this way patches up a major to minor glitch.
7:24 My mind thought that the Tonkor got this buff, but then I remembered that the exploding projectile does damage and was disappointed
Yep, it has on impact damage.
@ Eh, it's not that big of a deal, the Tonkor isn't really a status weapon anyway, was just mildly disappointed by this
I've played the game for around 4 months or less I still consider myself a noob, thanks for showing me that somehow I know even less about the game!
My mate, I have thousands of hours in Warframe and even I am a noob in half of the game lol, it is never ending.
As a certified melee and ability user, i am wondering what to do with my newfound arcane knowledge
(｡ŏ﹏ŏ)
There's a ton of hidden things and wonky coding going on in WF. Back when they released incarn weapons, you could bring certain values to negative which loops back to the max value of a signed DWORD. There's also certain account buffs to damage that happen for whatever reason. I stopped playing WF more than a couple years ago, and still might have my notes on testing mechanics/damage if you're interested. There also was a discord way back dedicated to breaking the game through weird interactions with weapons/mods/abilities though that's dead now.
That's interesting for sure, and sure send me research notes, I am not big into bugged stuff (I usually wait for fixed stuff) but I love learning about deep mechanics that are legit.
Maybe now my Convectrix riven will sell...
Probably not, the problem with convectrix wasn't the damage.
Why is it better that each hit is a status proc instead of it balancing out by being double and none?
Consistency, consistent output allows for better scaling of damage.
@@GeneralXikto why?
Yeap... DE has had these issues with Corpus since the earliest moments I can remember. It's especially painful when dealing with corrrupted enemy variants AND really bad... I've never seen them try to fix it. I'm sure it would even boost server performance if they could tackle this properly.
I just assumed that anything listed as "radial damage/attack" in the gun stats was never affected by GunCO, which is why it works normally on Plasmor. I think that's consistent but I wonder if there's some strange exceptions
Read the pinned comment.
I thought the same but that is not the case because that wouldn't explain how Proboscis Cernos Behaves.
@@GeneralXiktoThe pinned comment doesn't elaborate. How does Proboscis Cernos differ when everything outside the charged shot is under "Radial Attack"?
If it was only radial stuff and anything that is a secondary effect (or more technically a secondary damage instance of the same fire mode collection) could get the buff, then the unlisted damage instance of Proboscis Cernos is a non radial "direct damage" so it should have gotten the buff, but it doesn't get the buff, that is what convinced me that it isn't about radial or not, it is simply a matter of order of operations in each fire mode collection.
@GeneralXikto I can't really say internally but I would realistically consider all of it (the appendages and the explosion) as radial attack so it makes sense to me. I suppose the "first instance" thing is what happens but they do whatever UI trick or whatever to make sure that conventional wisdom for a "Radial Attack" makes sense to not be applied
@@GeneralXikto The Proboscis Cernos tendrils are a radial attack. Proboscis Cernos works the exact same as the Tenet Plinx alt fire, it just has fancy visuals to make it look like the targets are getting hit by tendrils
Man, I've played WF for a long time, I take 2-3yr long breaks from WF since Beta to not drain my soul with grind, and I just started again about 3-months ago. I immediately was wondering why tf "Augmented Enemy Shields" missions vs "Augmented Enemy Shields" condition missions for Sorties were so LUDICROUSLY different in TTK... If there was a way to see how those 300% increases ACTUALLY throw off the already dumb calculations for headshots against corpus, I'd bet it's doing something even funkier instead of a straight x3 multiplier. I know my boy Amprex got nerfed since I was away, but man, I kitted it out and updated it for even more DPS and status spread than ever... I leave mission almost immediately in annoyance and go grab big ole Hildy.
Theres a good reason Phantasma Prime is my most used primary weapon hehehe
Yeah I've been having a creeping suspicion that shield ospreys don't, in fact, give over 100K shielding
Interesting to see how janky it is under the hood
hope you are feeling better since the last few videos!
Yes I am a lot better, I appreciate the sentiment.
6:00 about this part. Ehm could it be just the deduction from enemy Armour? It could explain the reduction no?
Corpus tech and elite crewman do not passes armor.
Would the helmet give the Corpus units an additional armor value?
Seeing how the damage is calculated on the enemy side the damage numbers could be influenced by armor values in the way Warframes also receive a flat procentual damage reduction on health, but not on shields.
Read the pinned comment.
7:14 does that mean that the uncharged shot from that bow won't get the condition overload damage buff?
No, they do get the buff, please read the pinned comment.
Uhh a level like 30 corpus got hit by my sancti magistar for 20 million and didn’t die.
Feed us more knowledge papi. We must know more!
That helmet could have been armor negation
Read pinned comment.
0:50 just learned a well known thing, I guess🤣
I'm just gonna stick to the damn torid
Physically speaking, it does make sense that the ramp up is per-enemy. It would be like that in real life, if you don't count the secondary beams jumping to that target you just switched to earlier.
That would be because the target's surface still has to properly react to the beam to get the intended reaction, and 0.6s is quite a short time by today's laser gun standards against ceramic or similar.
This ain't real life tho.
Question. What is the highest hp enemy that you could find in a endurance run? Would like to have a number so I know if I am over modding my weapons on damage.
is this why my tenet cycron's heat dot is way too fucking high?
YEP, it is a beam weapon alright!
great job, now teach me how to 1shot nechramech demolishers consistently, i dont really have any issue dealing with them, but since i do the the disruption mission to level cap at least once a week im always looking for more efficient ways of going about it. and yes the 8-10 seconds to dump a mag into them does mess with the flow of momentum especially when using ash or gauss
Uhhh... Hit their weak spot which is behind them like MOAs if you haven't been doing that already... I guess.
@@hadesfiness631 trinity 2nd neg duration will melt them in 1/2 cast,sevagoth 2/1 combo should work too but i never runned sevagoth vs high lvl demolist
If condition overload like buffs only apply to the first listed damage, does this mean that weapons like the Dread that have Quick Shot and Charged Shot don't get the buff on the shot you're wanting to use most often?
Read the pinned comment.
@@GeneralXikto I did, Quick Shot and Charged Shot are listed under the fire mode. I wanted to see if this would be an exception since the 2 damage listings are meant to represent min and max stats based on charge level, but when I tested the Dread with just Galvanized Aptitude modded it was inconsistent. Some quick shots didn't see any increased damage from states effects, but some did (possibly because I charged for 0.1 seconds longer), and for the bonus crit from cold procs both quick and charged seemed to be benefiting.
That is an interesting find, I will add it to the list of things I should thoroughly test at some point.
What counts as direct damage isn't "the first listed damage instance on a weapon", that's pretty silly and arbitrary. In most cases it just comes down to what the triggering instance is. If it's not radial damage it will count as a direct hit, Arca Plasmor is not radial damage, it simply has a large projectile hitbox.
There exist weapons with no direct hit damage, like Talons. The explosion is not affected by direct damage mods, despite being the only listed damage instance. So what you said is definitely a bit misleading and not really correct.
Read the pinned comment.
also funny note on talons, they kinda did them dirty, they gave em a perma-miss first fire mode and a custom UI so what is internally first fire mode is not shown as the first mode, this is not unheard of since Proboscis Cernos which lead me to this conclusion also has a hidden fire mode which you can find in wiki but not in game.
(Obviously that is what I assume based on other tests, it isn't like I opened the game code lol)
7:07 does this mean that incarnon forms don't get the benefit?
Read the pinned comment
Didn't they disable the headshot multiplyer on the arca plasmor? Is that's why it's... different?
They set the multiplier for it to 1 (instead of 3), the headshot mechanic itself is otherwise the same, so that's not the reason.
@GeneralXikto then it's indeed curious
meat falling off the bone
I wonder if you could solve new Acuity mod sets mystery? They don't work as intented and I don't understand them fully well.
Well, they will soon be on the chopping block, though since I am not someone that works fast, many will beat me to it!
Any chance you might know exactly why Enervate procs random red crits if fire-rate is high enough? I mean it's easy to say "fire-rate is faster than the check for 6 orange crits" but that may not be correct.
I haven't played the latest update yet, so I haven't had the chance to test the new weapons.
At the very least I can say that given how cpu threads work, FR being faster than the check doesn't make any sense.
DE won't fix any math issues unless enough people are complaining that it is a significant enough thing to need fixing.
Saddest thing ever about my favourite game is that most smaller things just get ignored and forgotten and there is almost no point in starting a forum post unless you can convince lots of people to bring activity to the post.
Throwing a tantrum on twitter or reddit might work...
can u test on corpus units that have no helmet?
Iirc the helmet was a "shieldgate" for corpus a LONG time ago, and it absorbed dmg to break the helmet
I have tested that already, it is purely visual.
@@GeneralXikto thanks 🔥
Question regarding Gun CO: does that mean it'll never work on it due to it being a secondary set of stats?
Question unclear, please rephrase.
@GeneralXikto it was regarding the "direct damage from Galvanized Aptitude" bit at the end, but only just noticed the pinned message, which answered everything. Apologies for the confusion 🙇♀️
Good info, thank you
Tent arcs doesn’t head shot I think
You are technically correct, but also kinda incorrect.
You see arca plasmor CAN headshot but it has a default headshot multiplier of 1x instead of 3x (as I mentioned in the vid), not to mention if it wasn't an actual headshot it wouldn't be getting any sort of damage difference between body shot and headshot, but we can see from the health bar that it dealt more damage.
I see it. It was quick
So Galv. Apptitude doesnt help with incarnon mode firemodes? If Im right might as well use the regular variant hammer shot then
Read pinned comment.
@GeneralXikto I couldnt understand it... as far as I understand it either doesnt give the listed galvanised buffs and even if it does It wouldnt stack twice say for example the added direct damage buff it stacks up to 2x but bc of the different dmg sets you mentioned itd only stack up to 1 stack .... right?
Is this direct damage thing making alternate fire modes line incarnon and select fire less effective?
No, read the pinned comment.
Great video.
Am i reading this correctly?
An incarnon weapon will only receive the "direct damage" buff on the first shot fired and every shot afterwards does not receive any buff?
Nope, you have to apply that to what happens every hit, if you have like 5 different hits that happen every shot (not talking about multi shot) then only the first gets the buff, for example, lenz has 3 of them, projectile impact, bubble creation, and bubble collapse, thus only the first one is counted as directed damage, that is the intended effect of the mod, though there are some bugged exceptions as it is Warframe, but they are very rare.
@GeneralXikto ahhh okay I see, so for example, it would work with the Torod incarnon for all of its damage (since the chain isn't separately listed damage)
But for the Strun incarnon it would only affect the direct hit?
In theory yes, however incarnon genesis weapons are a whole other deal, they usually are fine, but sometimes they do something completely different and bugged, like burston incarnon which somehow gets the bonus on multiple fire modes and then also calculates the total bonus differently! that's a whole other can of worms!
wait does this mean condition overload type effects dont work for incarnon weapons?
NO no, I probably should have made this more clear, by "first listed damage in weapon" I actually meant the internal concept of weapon rather than the external one, basically each one of stuff like Auto/Burst/Semi fire modes of Kuva hind or Incarnon weapons count as separate weapons, for a more general term instead of weapon perhaps fire mode collection might be more accurate, basically when you press the fire button, the first damage instance that shows up (regardless of it hitting an enemy or not)
please explain why life strike on a fully modded exalted blade which is being buffed like 2 or three times over only gets like 5 health back from sortie ambulas. I tried running numbers and never understood what was happening
That's a good question, though sadly since it doesn't fall in my are of expertise, It is unlikely that I will get the time to explore it, I am more of a weapon guy, exalted weapons are a whole other can of worms that I am not an expert in!
Is it possible that the Corpus' helmet is what is messing with the shield gate headshots?
That is not the difference maker, I have thoroughly tested it. The helmet is purely visual.
@GeneralXikto I see. I figured it was similar to a Scaldra Dedicant or Deimos Saxum.
optimal
Thanks for the video glhf
I don't believe you have come to the correct conclusion regarding Condition Overload. Condition Overload is not based on attack index, and is actually calculated during hitreg and not on the weapon itself. Condition Overload ACTUALLY cares about the attack type, not the attack index. 'Hitscan' and 'Projectile' attacks benefit from CO, 'radial' attacks do not(usually). The Tenet Arca Plasmor works because it is not a 'radial' attack, it is a projectile with infinite body punch through (hence why it doesn't have a radius stat). When people talk about AoE weapons, they are referring to Radial attacks, meaning that the Tenet Arca Plasmor is categorically NOT an AoE weapon, no matter how you feel about it.
Because condition overload is calculated on hitreg, however, there's some quirks to it. On Hitscan radial weapons like the Burston Incarnon, radial attack damage is combined with hitscan attack damage in direct targets before any damage modifiers apply. This means that Condition Overload will multiply both the hitscan attack index and the radial attack index on targets that were hit with the hitscan. This example demonstrates that attack index is not a factor, since in hitscan AoE weapons CO is applying to both attack indexes.
I am not 100% sure either way, however my initial theory was the same as yours, and I had it implemented as thus in the code, the thing that made me question it, was the seemingly instantiated tendrils of proboscis cernos, which do not get any benefit from CO like buffs.
I haven't delved into multiplicative CO buffs because I was and am under the impression that they will eventually be removed, however, if we go by your theory and assume the direct damage buff mitigations for stuff like CO and puncture and cold are happening in the code that is responsible for distributing the damage to enemies within the radius, it wouldn't matter whether or not the weapon is hitscan or projectile because once it goes through radial code it would have the same things applied, your idea of it being on hit-reg doesn't make sense to me because just because it isn't like all projectile weapons don't get the buff, we can see that projectile weapons still get the buff only their radial portion isn't getting it, so it doesn't make sense for that code to be projectile specific.
at the end of the day, further testing is required, but that burston AOE example getting the buff does throw a wrench in my theory, however since the multiplier is not normal on it I can still claim it is simply bugged, but yeah if we find a good example I guess it would debunk my hit index theory.
And who knows, it could also end up being a galaxies and nebulas situation where both could be correct just in different places, I could easily see the whole multiplicative CO thing happening because of a different version of radial damage code that is lacking the CO removal and such.
@GeneralXikto The Proboscis tendrils are a radial attack, and they do not have dedicated attack indexes, the tendrils are just visual
It's not wise to assume that AoEs generated off hitscan would work the same as AoE's generated from Projectiles, as Projectiles and Hitscan have numerous other differences in how they interact with damage calculations (see Conditional crit chance bonuses like Acuity/Biting Frost for one example).
Much of this argument however seems to stem from the false notion that Proboscis Cernos's Tendrils are programmed as projectiles. The Tendrils are a radial attack that occurs before the explosion. The tendrils are generated as a visual effect but the attack itself is a radial attack with a 9m range and no damage falloff.
All of this could have been resolved with a simple look at the wiki pages for the relevant weapons, where all their extracted item statistics have been recorded
Do the ramp up include fire rate? Because while using kohm, i would start shooting then stop shooting and when i continue shooting that enemy, sometimes the fire rate stays high
I haven't done any in-depth tests with Kohm but at the very least I can say that the FireRate ramp up is not an in enemy one, that would be VERY noticeable, not sure about any other weirdness but the ramp up issues I talked about in this vid only apply to Beam weapons.
DE be like: "why people don't want to use anything else than toxin against corpus !!!" 😆Holy it's so bad.
To be fair corpus tech is the most extreme case I saw, not to mention that higher levels have higher passthrough percentages across the board.
... and now i understand even better how i can break the game XD tipp dont play phage its a laser beam shotgun XD
Ah yes good ol' de code.
Also i highly disagree with you considering arca plasmor as an aoe weapons
It was more of a technical note, as in it deals damage in an AREA, just that the area isn't a sphere.
I wanna see 1 million dmg mind controll target lol 😂 a bombard send enemies flying 😂.
If they start "fixing" or changing this stuff... Expect the game to become 200GB. 😂😂😂
I don't get what you meant here.
@@GeneralXikto im joking with some dev notes from some games that say "we fixed some mechanics" and its a 1 to 2 gb update hahaha. Since you said some mechanics dont work the way we think. just that.
multiplicative crit ;)
can someone ELI5 this video for me
Number one... Nezha is a TRAP!
Nice