For me and players like me I think I’ll be looking at how much I need to make sure I don’t get a negative from this system, I’ll aim for that and anything above that will be a bonus
They were passive in the sense that it depended on the opposition and the grudges they had, a grudge did not equal war, like trespassing for example was no reason for war and usually had punishments like hefty fees and the such, which should be a thing! That said, people like chaos, undead and skaven as well as orks are the factions they would never talk with and just slay the second they see them, maybe even dark elves, dwarf to dwarf grudges are the most nonsensical cause they would 100% not kill them! Its not an oathbreaker!
i agree with ur perspective on the lore. Dwarfs are ALWAYS ready to match out at a moments notice and fight people and take the fight to the enemy rather then sit back and watch them pass (unless there is no other choice). I think though they are slow lorewise when it comes to expansion and stuff cause their low birth rates. So i think people just think "oh they are slow to expand and slowly losing their holds therefore they must be hermits and not very aggressive". I also agree that u dont need to fill the bar and that is more of a bonus, as long as ur settling grudges and the dwarf populace is satisfied u get some bonuses, but if you want to go full genocide mode then u get major bonuses but have to get super aggressive. It gives the players playstyle choices to do what they want with the mechanic just like other mechanics in the game. the quest battle vision thing is annoying though
There is a case to be made they are losing so much *because* they are so aggressive and vengeful, lol. More dwarf lives wasted on petty grudges against people who actually are (like imperials) or could be their allies, then that whole battle starts another chain of grudges, and so on and so forth. And the infamous dwarven stubbornness made them defend a lot of holds to pretty much the last dwarf, save non-combatants.
Marching out to fight an enemy in their own territory is not the same as conquering every faction in sight because of grudges. They dont have the population for that kind of mentality or warfare. They are _defensive_ in nature. They'll never shy away from a fight but they dont send their armies out looking for one either. Technically the Dwarfs would have no allies if they had the kind of mentality that's implied by this grudge system. The Empire has wronged them, other Dwarf clans have wronged them, _literally everyone_ has wronged them. CA should have just copy/pasted the Greenskin Waaaagh system and it would have been 1000 times better than this drek. Dwarf declare a grudging, go to war, buffs/rewards/debuffs based on performance, cooldown.
ah, but is it broken in a positive way? Also it's kind of hard for skaven to be broken for two games when they weren't around for all of TWW3 (pre-immortal empires) and didn't exist in TWW1.
I personally like the new system (judging by what I’ve seen) and I honestly don’t understand where this feedback comes from. It's true that it "punishes" you for sitting in one place (if -1 to control can be called a punishment) But first of all it works as an additional push that you get as you progress, which gives you the opportunity to start or continue aggression or makes it easier to dig in new and old positions - additional control makes it easier to actually control unbuilt territories, and together with the growth and money saved on Grudgesettlers, it allows you to speed up the construction of your main provinces. I would say that, as a result, this mechanics just contributes to a more passive and tall gameplay. Since you are “limited” by a timer, at the end of which you receive buffs and new units. That is, you don’t need to “aggress”, but “wait” to receive these buffs, after which you need time to implement these buffs, and while you wait, the enemies accumulate grudges. Unlike aggressive factions that are interested in the largest and fastest possible expansion to gain their inertia, Orcs, Chaos (And the Khornates in particular) do not gain anything from sitting still, moreover, they can feed their armies almost entirely by plundering settlements (and they still have some left to invest in the economy), that is, the faster they do something, the faster they will get everything they can get. Dwarves, when playing too quickly and aggressively, will not receive anything until the timer expires, and unlike the truly aggressive factions, they cannot afford to live at an excessive minus in income (and still accumulate millions of money like Khorne), respectively. there is no strong benefit from hiring a very large number of armies (bonuses from the Age of Reckoning will still not cover these costs) As a result, it seems to me that this timer, unlike how it is perceived, does not tell you that you must do something before it expires (thus it does not force you to rush), but gives a delay to the bonuses that you will receive if you go aggressive And I’m honestly amazed at how interesting this mechanic is (despite some shortcomings ))) ) in its foundation. I really didn't expect such thing from CA. In general, I like the directions in which changes are taking place in the life cycle of this game - with getting rid of the “impure and unclear” but “pseudo-realistic” mechanics (like the non-linear growth and decline of corruption and slaves of the dark elves) in favor of more arcade versions of themselves, but around which you can really build different and interesting strategies
It's a dumb design. Should have just copied Greenskin Waaaagh where the Dawi declare a grudging on a specific faction and get rewards/debuffs based on how well they do. Simple. Tried and true. _Much_ more lore friendly. And non-intrusive enough that people dont feel like they're being forced to play a certain way. AoR in it's current state is obnoxious. I'll personally not be playing Dwarfs until the modding community fixes it or, ideally, removes it entirely. Which is a shame because they're my favorite faction. Lucky I still have TWW2 installed.
I think it’s totally broken personally, the number of grudges you need to fulfil becomes exponentially ridiculous. I like the concept but they’re going to need to rework the formula.
it's so bad, like so bad. it just goes up and up and up and becomes impossible unless you lose ALOT of battles. The enemies offer you no grudges and i'm on turn 110, i need like 15,000 grudges of age of reckoning and despite constantly fighting i'm lucky to make the first 2 tiers.
I don't like the system at all, I'll just make the occasional push for any grudge settler unit I want and then ignore it, dealing with the debuffs with buildings
Yeah, would be really stupid to block a cowardly ai army that has more range than you. Or assassinate melee beasts like Grimgor, Malus, Skarbrand. Why would you ever do such a thing?
@@therealikitclaw8124 you wouldnt becouse you cant assassinate melee beasts like Grimgor, Malus, Skarbrand XD You just cant choose them as targets. It shows how "offten" you use heroes on the map. XD XD XD "This thing is very good. I never used it, and doesn't know how it works, but it is really good"
Because you'd rather have all those strong heroes in the actual army that will fight the battle? Show me any competent player on UA-cam who regularly uses agent actions. And if an enemy runs away: Take their settlement. It's only ever worth using heroes as agents when you have a lot of them late game.
Whether the bar needs to be filled every time or not, I just don't think the mechanic fits the whole dwarf theme. I would have preferred to see a mechanic that places emphasis on restoring the karaz ankor, which is the the central mission of every dwarf. To some extent the new grudge system starts aiming towards that, but this is the ultimate goal of the dwarfs.
You do have that mission too through the legendary grudge for the underway, it's precisely that. Besides restoring the realm is more Thorgrim's mission. Dwarves care a lot about getting even.
@Costin_Gaming yeah, I did make the point the grudge system starts aiming towards it, albeit I don't think it quite ticks the box, but it gets closer. Restoring the karaz ankor is the aim of all dwarfs, not just thorgrim. Perhaps some additional landmarks across all major mountain holds would be something.
I just don’t get, why the negatives in Age of Reckoning are there… if it’s not rewarding or not punishing … and has little to no effect on campaign gameplay… why is it there in the first place? I would prefer just positive rewards through AoR, but make them really hard to work for. That’s how I can decide to wall and castle up like Dawi in their Dwarfholds or go out and really reach havoc and rage a war of vengeance upon Immortal Empires
@@MrScrewee Dawi also dont go on rampages because of a few grudges. They dont have the population for endless warfare. The Dwarfs are not Khorne. The system is garbage.
@@anon4854 They attacked a city, because like few hundreds years ago lord of that city destroyed a Dawi statue, while retreating from a combat. The current lord didn't want to pay, because it was multyple generations ago.
@@MrScrewee So, they attacked a specific city for a specific reason and gave the lord a chance to pay for the slight...? Yeah, what a rampage. You're right the Dawi are basically Khorne 🙄
Playing tall is: - Not Dwarf like, or what do you think Thorgrim, Belegar, Ungrim, Thorek and Grombrindal ACTUALLY do? Sit on their arse and drink beer in the mountains: Dwarfs go out and try and right the wrongs. Hell a major point of Thorgrim is that unlikely many other dwarfs he is pretty pragmatic about it. Other dwarfs would love nothing more than to purge enemies, let alone Slayers - Not workable in current Total War. - Also not exactly punishing for Grudges
@@Costin_Gaming The current mechanic is not a tool for the player. The tool is in control. And the player is just supposed to furfill what it wants. Thats just terrible game design. And I am not going to be convinced that the Dawi playing like a Khorne faction with guns is somehow loreful.
@@AliothAncalagon IF you think you can do better rework then ca go for it i wait you you create a better dwarf rework version mod if not then don't complain
@@helborgkurt4922 As a modder I actually can come up with a better rework. But I don't think thats going to be necessary. SFO usually does a great job.
So you bring up an interesting point about game design and being hyper aggressive; The name of the series is "TOTAL War," after all. I think the empire building fantasy that dwarf players lean towards, might be very difficult to include in a game balanced around war.
For me and players like me I think I’ll be looking at how much I need to make sure I don’t get a negative from this system, I’ll aim for that and anything above that will be a bonus
that does seem like the intended method.
I agree the Dwarfs don't have to be passive. The mechanic is even named after Thorgrims declaration for the dwarfs to get out there and right wrongs.
Confederating the minor factions shouldn't affect the amount of grudges necessary to confederate the major ones
insane saturation lmao
Vibrant
They were passive in the sense that it depended on the opposition and the grudges they had, a grudge did not equal war, like trespassing for example was no reason for war and usually had punishments like hefty fees and the such, which should be a thing!
That said, people like chaos, undead and skaven as well as orks are the factions they would never talk with and just slay the second they see them, maybe even dark elves, dwarf to dwarf grudges are the most nonsensical cause they would 100% not kill them! Its not an oathbreaker!
i agree with ur perspective on the lore. Dwarfs are ALWAYS ready to match out at a moments notice and fight people and take the fight to the enemy rather then sit back and watch them pass (unless there is no other choice). I think though they are slow lorewise when it comes to expansion and stuff cause their low birth rates. So i think people just think "oh they are slow to expand and slowly losing their holds therefore they must be hermits and not very aggressive". I also agree that u dont need to fill the bar and that is more of a bonus, as long as ur settling grudges and the dwarf populace is satisfied u get some bonuses, but if you want to go full genocide mode then u get major bonuses but have to get super aggressive. It gives the players playstyle choices to do what they want with the mechanic just like other mechanics in the game. the quest battle vision thing is annoying though
There is a case to be made they are losing so much *because* they are so aggressive and vengeful, lol. More dwarf lives wasted on petty grudges against people who actually are (like imperials) or could be their allies, then that whole battle starts another chain of grudges, and so on and so forth. And the infamous dwarven stubbornness made them defend a lot of holds to pretty much the last dwarf, save non-combatants.
@@Grivehn true that’s a good point
Marching out to fight an enemy in their own territory is not the same as conquering every faction in sight because of grudges. They dont have the population for that kind of mentality or warfare. They are _defensive_ in nature. They'll never shy away from a fight but they dont send their armies out looking for one either. Technically the Dwarfs would have no allies if they had the kind of mentality that's implied by this grudge system. The Empire has wronged them, other Dwarf clans have wronged them, _literally everyone_ has wronged them.
CA should have just copy/pasted the Greenskin Waaaagh system and it would have been 1000 times better than this drek. Dwarf declare a grudging, go to war, buffs/rewards/debuffs based on performance, cooldown.
When skaven where freaking broken for2 games straight people were just fine with it, now that is dawi times people freak out.
Silence Thagorakki Scum! (J/k)
Shut up
ah, but is it broken in a positive way?
Also it's kind of hard for skaven to be broken for two games when they weren't around for all of TWW3 (pre-immortal empires) and didn't exist in TWW1.
@@johnj.spurgin7037 broken for wh2 and 3, that's 2 games, sure they were not out pre immortal empire, so? does it matter?
@@johnj.spurgin7037Roto está el waaagh de los Orkoz en campaña...
This must go into the book.... protesting against the age of reckoning will not be tolerated :D
AoR itself goes into the book if you ask me xD
Trying to play a coop campagin and it breaks it as I can see grudges near him but I'm not close enough to get them...
What's up with the saturation bro?
I think the system might need some numerical tweaking, but the core mechanical system I think works fine.
I personally like the new system (judging by what I’ve seen) and I honestly don’t understand where this feedback comes from. It's true that it "punishes" you for sitting in one place (if -1 to control can be called a punishment) But first of all it works as an additional push that you get as you progress, which gives you the opportunity to start or continue aggression or makes it easier to dig in new and old positions - additional control makes it easier to actually control unbuilt territories, and together with the growth and money saved on Grudgesettlers, it allows you to speed up the construction of your main provinces.
I would say that, as a result, this mechanics just contributes to a more passive and tall gameplay. Since you are “limited” by a timer, at the end of which you receive buffs and new units. That is, you don’t need to “aggress”, but “wait” to receive these buffs, after which you need time to implement these buffs, and while you wait, the enemies accumulate grudges. Unlike aggressive factions that are interested in the largest and fastest possible expansion to gain their inertia, Orcs, Chaos (And the Khornates in particular) do not gain anything from sitting still, moreover, they can feed their armies almost entirely by plundering settlements (and they still have some left to invest in the economy), that is, the faster they do something, the faster they will get everything they can get.
Dwarves, when playing too quickly and aggressively, will not receive anything until the timer expires, and unlike the truly aggressive factions, they cannot afford to live at an excessive minus in income (and still accumulate millions of money like Khorne), respectively. there is no strong benefit from hiring a very large number of armies (bonuses from the Age of Reckoning will still not cover these costs)
As a result, it seems to me that this timer, unlike how it is perceived, does not tell you that you must do something before it expires (thus it does not force you to rush), but gives a delay to the bonuses that you will receive if you go aggressive
And I’m honestly amazed at how interesting this mechanic is (despite some shortcomings ))) ) in its foundation. I really didn't expect such thing from CA. In general, I like the directions in which changes are taking place in the life cycle of this game - with getting rid of the “impure and unclear” but “pseudo-realistic” mechanics (like the non-linear growth and decline of corruption and slaves of the dark elves) in favor of more arcade versions of themselves, but around which you can really build different and interesting strategies
It's a dumb design. Should have just copied Greenskin Waaaagh where the Dawi declare a grudging on a specific faction and get rewards/debuffs based on how well they do.
Simple. Tried and true. _Much_ more lore friendly. And non-intrusive enough that people dont feel like they're being forced to play a certain way.
AoR in it's current state is obnoxious. I'll personally not be playing Dwarfs until the modding community fixes it or, ideally, removes it entirely. Which is a shame because they're my favorite faction. Lucky I still have TWW2 installed.
I think it’s totally broken personally, the number of grudges you need to fulfil becomes exponentially ridiculous. I like the concept but they’re going to need to rework the formula.
It is the worst mechanic in the game currentely, because it is the only mechanic that railroads the player in the sandbox.
it's so bad, like so bad. it just goes up and up and up and becomes impossible unless you lose ALOT of battles. The enemies offer you no grudges and i'm on turn 110, i need like 15,000 grudges of age of reckoning and despite constantly fighting i'm lucky to make the first 2 tiers.
I don't like the system at all, I'll just make the occasional push for any grudge settler unit I want and then ignore it, dealing with the debuffs with buildings
Same here. Sadly that is still a net negative because we are missing out on a faction mechanic that could actually be fun and not a time stressor
Totally agree
I always love your youtube video you make great cotent
What do you think about full hero purpose switch from TWW1 to TWW3? Using hero on camaign map is one of the most stupid thing you can do in TWW3 imho.
Agents were just meh in Total War, either stupid OP or useless. Glad they are gone from that role.
@@Costin_Gaming i loved them in previous TWW like med or rome, it was adding depth in ghe campaign.
Yeah, would be really stupid to block a cowardly ai army that has more range than you. Or assassinate melee beasts like Grimgor, Malus, Skarbrand. Why would you ever do such a thing?
@@therealikitclaw8124 you wouldnt becouse you cant assassinate melee beasts like Grimgor, Malus, Skarbrand XD You just cant choose them as targets. It shows how "offten" you use heroes on the map. XD XD XD
"This thing is very good. I never used it, and doesn't know how it works, but it is really good"
Because you'd rather have all those strong heroes in the actual army that will fight the battle? Show me any competent player on UA-cam who regularly uses agent actions.
And if an enemy runs away: Take their settlement.
It's only ever worth using heroes as agents when you have a lot of them late game.
No idea whats happened, but the colors of this video hurt my eyes! Thats not the normal coloring of WH3.
Whether the bar needs to be filled every time or not, I just don't think the mechanic fits the whole dwarf theme. I would have preferred to see a mechanic that places emphasis on restoring the karaz ankor, which is the the central mission of every dwarf. To some extent the new grudge system starts aiming towards that, but this is the ultimate goal of the dwarfs.
You do have that mission too through the legendary grudge for the underway, it's precisely that.
Besides restoring the realm is more Thorgrim's mission. Dwarves care a lot about getting even.
@Costin_Gaming yeah, I did make the point the grudge system starts aiming towards it, albeit I don't think it quite ticks the box, but it gets closer. Restoring the karaz ankor is the aim of all dwarfs, not just thorgrim. Perhaps some additional landmarks across all major mountain holds would be something.
bro, what?
@@Costin_Gamingsuggesting the dwarfs are short sighted by not wanting to unite the empire. Thats 2 pages for the book
I don't need to play it, to know it needs to be tweaked. Much like if i see shit, i don't need to taste it, to know it's shit.
Hello 😊
I just don’t get, why the negatives in Age of Reckoning are there… if it’s not rewarding or not punishing … and has little to no effect on campaign gameplay… why is it there in the first place?
I would prefer just positive rewards through AoR, but make them really hard to work for.
That’s how I can decide to wall and castle up like Dawi in their Dwarfholds or go out and really reach havoc and rage a war of vengeance upon Immortal Empires
Based on Grudge Bearer book, dawi just go put and settle grudges thou
Its the first thing I am going to mod out if possible. Simply no negatives. Same I did with markus wulfhart
@@MrScrewee Dawi also dont go on rampages because of a few grudges. They dont have the population for endless warfare. The Dwarfs are not Khorne. The system is garbage.
@@anon4854 They attacked a city, because like few hundreds years ago lord of that city destroyed a Dawi statue, while retreating from a combat. The current lord didn't want to pay, because it was multyple generations ago.
@@MrScrewee So, they attacked a specific city for a specific reason and gave the lord a chance to pay for the slight...?
Yeah, what a rampage. You're right the Dawi are basically Khorne 🙄
In my opinion its literally the worst rework any faction has ever gotten.
Punishing Dwarves for playing tall is complete insanity.
Playing tall is:
- Not Dwarf like, or what do you think Thorgrim, Belegar, Ungrim, Thorek and Grombrindal ACTUALLY do? Sit on their arse and drink beer in the mountains: Dwarfs go out and try and right the wrongs. Hell a major point of Thorgrim is that unlikely many other dwarfs he is pretty pragmatic about it. Other dwarfs would love nothing more than to purge enemies, let alone Slayers
- Not workable in current Total War.
- Also not exactly punishing for Grudges
@@Costin_Gaming The current mechanic is not a tool for the player.
The tool is in control. And the player is just supposed to furfill what it wants.
Thats just terrible game design.
And I am not going to be convinced that the Dawi playing like a Khorne faction with guns is somehow loreful.
@@AliothAncalagon if you want loreful gameplay for dwai please go use a mod
@@AliothAncalagon IF you think you can do better rework then ca go for it i wait you you create a better dwarf rework version mod if not then don't complain
@@helborgkurt4922 As a modder I actually can come up with a better rework.
But I don't think thats going to be necessary. SFO usually does a great job.
So you bring up an interesting point about game design and being hyper aggressive; The name of the series is "TOTAL War," after all. I think the empire building fantasy that dwarf players lean towards, might be very difficult to include in a game balanced around war.
Don't buy this broken trash.
Speak for yourself mate
@@blubberbernd2347 I bought it lol