Having watched the entire series, what do you think about the connection between White Crane and Wing Chun? How about Karate? Share your thoughts in the comments below.
I think they have a common ancestor, but they all evolved in different directions. Modern White Crane is probably just as different from that common ancestor as Karate and Wing Chun are, kind of like how broccoli, cauliflower, and kale are all different to wild cabbage.
The connection with karate is obvious, especially with goju ryu. However, not with Higaonna's version, which strongly leans towards modern shotokan-inspired sports rules. The connection with wingchun is completely absent-here we see rather "anti-wingchun", which will very well interfere with the use of all its basic techniques.
Looking at it from a Bio Mechanics point of view and the stances shown, anyone who trains Wing Chun would know that the drills shown here are relative to the principles, and share a common relationship, mainly the Mainland WC which looks more dynamic. Some of the Hong Kong WC you see does look a bit wooden in the body
i think an alternative theory not many have bothered much exploring is that wing chun may have borrowed from many different styles. there is no question that it shares many similarities to other arts both technical and in theory. but its underlying principles in the combination they are in are unique. seems to me the 'original formula' of wing chun was put together a long time ago and subsequently added to via techniques by the masters it was passed to based on their encounters and experiences. this would explain why we see elements of styles like tai chi, white crane, southern mantis etc in wing chun yet none of them seem to encompass the same collection of skills and vice versa. obviously this is why we have different styles to begin with and immsure many of these arts crossed paths and borrow from each other not just wing chun. i guess you could say there are many techniques that are 'imports' from other styles that have been 'wing chun-ified'. techniques the previous masters thought would work well within wing chuns preexsisting principles. i dont personally believe any of these arts to be the 'mother' or 'origin' art of wing chun because as mentioned above despite the similarities they do not contain the essence of the style and vise versa. without a written history analysing the styles might be as close as we will get to answers.
I have been studying & training Jiu Wan lineage Wing Chun for over 20 years now, and I definitely see similarities between Wing Chun & White Crane. (I’m also a believer in the story of its creation with Ng Mui, Bak Mei, & the other 3 masters who were working on developing a new martial art that combined all the best of Southern Shaolin before Bak Mei betrayed them. I think the fact that Bak Mei White Eyebrow Kung Fu is so similar to Wing Chun lends credence to the story).
My Taijiquan teacher is a student of one of Huang Sheng Shyan’s student. Master Huang was a practitioner of Fujian White Crane before he met Cheng Man Ching. His White Crane influence is reflected in our Taiji. Nice to see a video on his influences.
This is amazing. The SanZhan the teacher is doing in 4:44 looks a lot like Goju's Tenshou kata, the sticky hands in 8:40 looks a lot like the kakie and BabuLian in 12:45 looks and feels more like the Goju ryu Sanchin. I love your research and information and the collaboration with Jesse
I have been to that village with my Kung fu group from germany. They go anually if possible but Ive only ever gotten the chance once. Back then, I think it was 2017 tthe headmaster of the dojo was still alive. He was prepared to give his legacy on tho. watching from the side as his son was doing most of the teaching and coming in for the most valueable lessons. incredebly calm on the outside yet serious and extremely strong threw tecnique. I also had the honor to perform spontaniously with my group at the mountain shrine that you showed in the beginning. really cool to see all of this again.
I didn't know your channel name was White Ape Steals Peach and I was expecting a white crane practitioner to show me how to do the first form in my system haha.
@@MonkeyStealsPeach Will, what are your thoughts that the arts we call martial are actually a spiritual practice, and they got distorted and turned into mainstream , misunderstood practice🙏
OMG... you bring back the memory. couple yrs ago i saw those Sifu in youtube, now they much older... Thanks for sharing. I like this Souther Kungfu bcos they are practical and deathly. Becos the techniques is 一击必杀。
I trained in Wing Chun for 2 years, in 2 different schools, in 2 far away countries. First school had a friendly open minded teacher, the other had a hard-headed teacher. The second school disappointed me greatly in the ineffectiveness of many of the fundamentals, and so I quit. Was the second school just a bad apple? Does Wing Chun suck? Am I wrong and impatient? We will never know............. I did find styles later on that make much more sense.
You should look up pak mei kung fu from the lineage of Cheung Lai Chun his last student was kwong man fong who passed away in 2015 now it's under sifu Edgard wong it's different than the fat san pak mei
Old but great video!. many people are trying to disconnect bodidharma from the shaolin temple or for a better use of words! there are surious attempts to ditach self defence methods from there eastern spirituality! you should make a video with it! I suggest finding master Shi De Jian!. ni hao
Very very interesting. All those masters were very engaging and informative. I do wonder though if White Crane is worth studying if you already study Wing Chun?
Will, have you read "The Creation of Wing Chun: A Social History of the Southern Chinese Martial Arts" by Benjamin N. Judkins and Jon Nielson? It's amazing. I'm not knowledgeable enough to summarize it here but it's well written and sourced. Great video as always BTW. 🙏
I always recall a story of white crane Kung Fu was developed by the woman, where the story goes her daddy was killed best I recall by others, where she studied the crane or Swan how it used its strengths, mirroring them as Kara or was whatever's preferred, she went on. I can't recall if they whooped them or what. Seems she did, but I do not recall.
Where do you see a connection to South Indian martial arts? Anything else besides the commonly repeated (and debunked for a long time) Bodhidharma myth?
I get what you say. Ours might look rougher now. But bet that 250 y/ago when martial arts meant "serious business" (assets protection and warfare) things were even closer.
Wherever you go across the Globe, whether it be in India or in Antarctic we humans have got only Two legs & two feet... So there will be commonalities in all martial arts.. Put in short it dosent make sense to attribute everything to Southern Indian martial art which is just a Cooked up story.. Use ur brain to just think of reality like this... Bodidharma is said to have reached SHAOLIN only around 495 AD & he is supposed to teach monks YI JIN JING, XI XUI JING, 18 LOHAN ARHAT BOXING.. HE CAN BE REGARDED AS THE FATHER OF SHAOIN KUNG FU.. but martial arts existed in many other forms & systems way b4 Tamo reached China.. The Country China, Egypt, Africa etc is as Old as India Long story short, whether Chicken or Egg came first isn't a topic of discussion in 21st century.. What matters is " WHAT SKILL YOU HAVE GOT.. WHAT EXTRA YOU WERE ABLE TO PRODUCE... WHAT YOU WERE ABLE TO PASS ON TO THE NEXT GEN, RATHER THAN FAKE STORIES.. "
@@shaolin7426 I don’t know what Damo is supposed to have actually done, it’s incredibly frustrating, for every legend about him there is a historical analysis that deems it unlikely. Whatever, it cannot be denied that Zen has it’s roots most definitely in Indian religion.
@@peterwang5660 what Tamo has done is recordical in Chinese Ancient texts a what i have mentioned earlier in my comments.. There r many things in our life which is beyond our knowledge & reach
they are not showing you the proper counter to the attack- when the so called soft master penetrates- you change your hands to bongsau and use 2 hands to counter and create equilibrium, of course you do not react immediately- as most people-unknowing to the counter- he can easily defeat you from that position
Having watched the entire series, what do you think about the connection between White Crane and Wing Chun? How about Karate? Share your thoughts in the comments below.
I think they have a common ancestor, but they all evolved in different directions. Modern White Crane is probably just as different from that common ancestor as Karate and Wing Chun are, kind of like how broccoli, cauliflower, and kale are all different to wild cabbage.
The connection with karate is obvious, especially with goju ryu. However, not with Higaonna's version, which strongly leans towards modern shotokan-inspired sports rules.
The connection with wingchun is completely absent-here we see rather "anti-wingchun", which will very well interfere with the use of all its basic techniques.
Barefoot Zen by Nathan Johnson explains the roots, highly recommended
Looking at it from a Bio Mechanics point of view and the stances shown, anyone who trains Wing Chun would know that the drills shown here are relative to the principles, and share a common relationship, mainly the Mainland WC which looks more dynamic. Some of the Hong Kong WC you see does look a bit wooden in the body
i think an alternative theory not many have bothered much exploring is that wing chun may have borrowed from many different styles. there is no question that it shares many similarities to other arts both technical and in theory. but its underlying principles in the combination they are in are unique. seems to me the 'original formula' of wing chun was put together a long time ago and subsequently added to via techniques by the masters it was passed to based on their encounters and experiences. this would explain why we see elements of styles like tai chi, white crane, southern mantis etc in wing chun yet none of them seem to encompass the same collection of skills and vice versa. obviously this is why we have different styles to begin with and immsure many of these arts crossed paths and borrow from each other not just wing chun. i guess you could say there are many techniques that are 'imports' from other styles that have been 'wing chun-ified'. techniques the previous masters thought would work well within wing chuns preexsisting principles.
i dont personally believe any of these arts to be the 'mother' or 'origin' art of wing chun because as mentioned above despite the similarities they do not contain the essence of the style and vise versa.
without a written history analysing the styles might be as close as we will get to answers.
I have been studying & training Jiu Wan lineage Wing Chun for over 20 years now, and I definitely see similarities between Wing Chun & White Crane. (I’m also a believer in the story of its creation with Ng Mui, Bak Mei, & the other 3 masters who were working on developing a new martial art that combined all the best of Southern Shaolin before Bak Mei betrayed them. I think the fact that Bak Mei White Eyebrow Kung Fu is so similar to Wing Chun lends credence to the story).
My Taijiquan teacher is a student of one of Huang Sheng Shyan’s student. Master Huang was a practitioner of Fujian White Crane before he met Cheng Man Ching. His White Crane influence is reflected in our Taiji. Nice to see a video on his influences.
Great stuff Will. Would be great to explore those historical connections remain between Wing Chun and White Crane more.
Wow!!! I see elements of Bak Mei!
This is amazing. The SanZhan the teacher is doing in 4:44 looks a lot like Goju's Tenshou kata, the sticky hands in 8:40 looks a lot like the kakie and BabuLian in 12:45 looks and feels more like the Goju ryu Sanchin. I love your research and information and the collaboration with Jesse
I have been to that village with my Kung fu group from germany. They go anually if possible but Ive only ever gotten the chance once.
Back then, I think it was 2017 tthe headmaster of the dojo was still alive.
He was prepared to give his legacy on tho. watching from the side as his son was doing most of the teaching and coming in for the most valueable lessons.
incredebly calm on the outside yet serious and extremely strong threw tecnique.
I also had the honor to perform spontaniously with my group at the mountain shrine that you showed in the beginning.
really cool to see all of this again.
I didn't know your channel name was White Ape Steals Peach and I was expecting a white crane practitioner to show me how to do the first form in my system haha.
I want to know about hung gar kuen or on mandarin hong jia quan
Thank you! Very interesting. Shame much history was "lost" through the ages. Such a rich heritage for centuries.
One of the best channels on UA-cam period, thank you so much for your posts,
Wow, thank you! You make me teary eyed lol
@@MonkeyStealsPeach Will, what are your thoughts that the arts we call martial are actually a spiritual practice, and they got distorted and turned into mainstream , misunderstood practice🙏
Well done
I'm in love with this video as a practitioner of Ip Man wing chun
Yong Quan, Kidney 1 acupuncture point, bubbling spring. Interesting name for the city.
Its Yong Chun 永春 not Yong Quan 涌泉
Nice video man keep it coming! Cheers!
OMG... you bring back the memory. couple yrs ago i saw those Sifu in youtube, now they much older... Thanks for sharing. I like this Souther Kungfu bcos they are practical and deathly. Becos the techniques is 一击必杀。
I trained in Wing Chun for 2 years, in 2 different schools, in 2 far away countries. First school had a friendly open minded teacher, the other had a hard-headed teacher. The second school disappointed me greatly in the ineffectiveness of many of the fundamentals, and so I quit. Was the second school just a bad apple? Does Wing Chun suck? Am I wrong and impatient? We will never know............. I did find styles later on that make much more sense.
Amazing video! So interesting to see the old history!
You should look up pak mei kung fu from the lineage of Cheung Lai Chun his last student was kwong man fong who passed away in 2015 now it's under sifu Edgard wong it's different than the fat san pak mei
Monkey steals peach.🍑..Nice name👌
As ever Will, I'm blown away by the quality of your videos. Great work chap
Great video. I was under the impression that Fang Chiniang's father was a practitioner of Fujian Luohan Boxing. I never heard the Taizu story.
Parabéns Jorge, como sempre ótimos trabalhos.
Old but great video!. many people are trying to disconnect bodidharma from the shaolin temple or for a better use of words! there are surious attempts to ditach self defence methods from there eastern spirituality! you should make a video with it! I suggest finding master Shi De Jian!. ni hao
Very very interesting. All those masters were very engaging and informative. I do wonder though if White Crane is worth studying if you already study Wing Chun?
I think it is definitely worth it. If nothing else if would give you some insights into doing similar moves in a different way
@@MonkeyStealsPeach Thank you 👍
Caprichou nessa, valeu!
Will, have you read "The Creation of Wing Chun: A Social History of the Southern Chinese Martial Arts" by Benjamin N. Judkins and Jon Nielson? It's amazing. I'm not knowledgeable enough to summarize it here but it's well written and sourced. Great video as always BTW. 🙏
Thanks for the recommendation, I’ll have to check it out!
Found it on Amazon and just ordered it, looking forward to reading if
nice video
i can't understand anything from the last master.. what dialect is that?
Fuzhou dialect, aka Mindong hua
Any plans to go to Okinawa?
At some point I’d love to
I always recall a story of white crane Kung Fu was developed by the woman, where the story goes her daddy was killed best I recall by others, where she studied the crane or Swan how it used its strengths, mirroring them as Kara or was whatever's preferred, she went on. I can't recall if they whooped them or what. Seems she did, but I do not recall.
“It’s a pig… Oh it’s a lion!”
C’mon Will your Chinese is too good to make that silly mistake! 😂
Thanks for making us travel vicariously.
The connections are also deeper in the east. The (impossible to avoid due to the >maritime silk road
Where do you see a connection to South Indian martial arts? Anything else besides the commonly repeated (and debunked for a long time) Bodhidharma myth?
I get what you say. Ours might look rougher now. But bet that 250 y/ago when martial arts meant "serious business" (assets protection and warfare) things were even closer.
Wherever you go across the Globe, whether it be in India or in Antarctic we humans have got only Two legs & two feet... So there will be commonalities in all martial arts.. Put in short it dosent make sense to attribute everything to Southern Indian martial art which is just a Cooked up story..
Use ur brain to just think of reality like this... Bodidharma is said to have reached SHAOLIN only around 495 AD & he is supposed to teach monks YI JIN JING, XI XUI JING, 18 LOHAN ARHAT BOXING..
HE CAN BE REGARDED AS THE FATHER OF SHAOIN KUNG FU..
but martial arts existed in many other forms & systems way b4 Tamo reached China..
The Country China, Egypt, Africa etc is as Old as India
Long story short, whether Chicken or Egg came first isn't a topic of discussion in 21st century..
What matters is " WHAT SKILL YOU HAVE GOT.. WHAT EXTRA YOU WERE ABLE TO PRODUCE... WHAT YOU WERE ABLE TO PASS ON TO THE NEXT GEN, RATHER THAN FAKE STORIES.. "
@@shaolin7426 I don’t know what Damo is supposed to have actually done, it’s incredibly frustrating, for every legend about him there is a historical analysis that deems it unlikely. Whatever, it cannot be denied that Zen has it’s roots most definitely in Indian religion.
@@peterwang5660 what Tamo has done is recordical in Chinese Ancient texts a what i have mentioned earlier in my comments..
There r many things in our life which is beyond our knowledge & reach
Karate origin from fujian,e.g Goju Ryu.
they are not showing you the proper counter to the attack- when the so called soft master penetrates- you change your hands to bongsau and use 2 hands to counter and create equilibrium, of course you do not react immediately- as most people-unknowing to the counter- he can easily defeat you from that position
Parabéns Jorge, como sempre ótimos trabalhos.