A Rational Approach to the Torah's Divine Origin - Rabbi Lawrence Kelemen
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- How do we evaluate the credibility of religion? What are the benefits of Judaism? Rabbi Kelemen establishes Judaism's credibility beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Heard this one so many times, my wife is a student of his (even got a signed copy of his book!) never gets old. I am hoping to do a series on my channel in the near future of many approaches to the truth of Hashem's existence and also of the divinity of the torah, and Rabbi Kelemen's approach is such an amazing solid foundation for the first and most important proof. This approach is a modern take on the main proof of the torah brought down by our rabbis throughout the ages, the giving of the torah.
Great lecture...great man...you should bring more of him...
+Ohr Michaeli - He is a wonderful man, and a wonderful Jew, who also happens to speak well in public.
Talmud Sukkah 20a For in ancient times when the Torah was forgotten from Israel, Ezra came up from Babylon and established it.
[The bulk of the people forgot the Torah. Do they tell Ezra we have no recollection of this Torah from our forefathers and so we can not accept it ? No. So a national tradition consisting of this Torah was given to our forefathers can be introduced. This demolishes the Rabbi's argument.]
@Good Day Even if your interpretation is correct it misses the point. A) Those commandments that you claim are lost get introduced to a population that knows not of them. That itself demolishes the Rabbi's argument. 2)Also, per your interpretation Ezra introduces "Torah Laws" into Israel. That itself demolishes the Rabbi's argument since Torah Laws can thus be introduced into a population that knows not of them.
@ Good Day one more thing: Ramban Numbers 15:22 9 - In the days of the wicked Kings such as Jeroboam MOST PEOPLE forgot the TORAH and COMMANDMENTS COMPLETELY.
[hus at some future date the commandments must have been reintroduced to the bulk of the people. They were told the commandments were from G-d even though they had no recollection that these commandments being from G-d. Thus the national tradition consisting of G-d giving these commandments were introduced to a population having no record of such commandments. ANd that also destroys the Rabbi's argument.
I think you are missing the point. The point is national traditions CAN be introduced into a nation even if such a national tradition does not exist.
Baruch HaShem and thank you, Rabbi Kelemen for this amazing lecture. I have a question, what was the revelation narrative of Hinduism or is there a founder of Hinduism? Thanks.
I’m looking forward to this but I have to say that I’m currently 7:33 into it and some of his claims about Christianity are shockingly inaccurate.
Your description of the origins of Christianity is full of error. And no, I don’t think any Protestants or Catholics would agree with what you presented.
There’s no evidence that the Jesus movement dissipated after he died.
The story of Saul’s vision specifically mentions that others were present for the encounter.
Saul did not change his name to Paul; Saul was his Hebrew name, Paul was his Roman name. This isn’t an uncommon phenomenon in multi-lingual societies. He is called “Saul” when he’s preaching to Jews, and “Paul” when he’s preaching to non-Jews.
There’s no evidence that the divinity of Jesus was “heresy” to the original “Jesus cult”. The people trying to kill him vary over time, but none of them are because he claims “Jesus is God.”
Paul certainly did not write the miracle stories of Jesus’ life. Outside of the Resurrection, he doesn’t mention any of Jesus’ miracles at all, in fact.
The other New Testament writings were not based on Paul’s letters. No textual critical scholar would ever suggest this. Rather, there is VERY little overlap in content between Paul’s writings and the Gospels. Paul is writing specific letters to specific communities addressing their specific issues; the Gospels are written for broad audiences to tell the story of Jesus’ life. Not only is it factually wrong that these are based on Paul’s writings, but it makes ZERO sense since Paul’s writings don’t have any content of the life of Jesus.
The Council of Nicaea had nothing, again, NOTHING to do with which books were in the Bible. Not at all. Complete fabrication; no history.
When you make such egregious errors about things I’m familiar with, it prevents me from taking what you say about what I’m not familiar with with any kind of authority.
Is there an online version of the written material to read?
Why is there no way to save this video to my Playlist?!
You are incorrect..m.how any eye witness account of Matthew and John....
It's all in the name: Adam.
In Hebrew: Adam means man. Adam (man) is made from blood, dust, water.
"Adam" in Hebrew: 1) "A" stands for Afer meaning dust. 2) "Dam" means blood. 3) "M" stands for Mayim meaning water.
Thus Adam (man) is made from blood, dust, water i.e. afer, dam, mayim.
Hebrew (Ivrit) the
Holy (Kadosh) language (safa).
what is a good online source to find a school for torah learning near me?
Why would you want to learn a document that endorses the murder of homosexuals, the stoning of people who make a fire on the Sabbath, and a bunch of other horrific affirmations?
@@danielt.4330 homosexuality isnt something that great nations are made on, no culture that wants to last supports nontraditional gender roles or a lessening of old values. no matter the values, you think the sabbath is silly but you are an outsider, all you see is a day where people were commanded by an imaginary deity to not work on, you have not studied it to look for reasons and justification of why this law exists and you probably have no desire to. its obvious that on less day in the week to work is a bad thing, thats why jews are known to be poor... but they arent.
@@charliedilltarde9881 First of all, Greek and Roman cultures, some of the biggest and most powerful societies of all time, had extremely permissive and accepting views of homosexuality, as well as different gender roles. There's no reason to think that homosexuality is bad for a society.
Second of all, you know nothing about me. Before you accuse me of "not having studied," realize that I'm an ex-Ultra Orthodox Jew who was religious for over 20 years and studied the Bible and the Talmud for over 5 hours a day. I'm well-aware of what the sabbath is, and how horrific, barbaric, and immoral the laws are.
Are you religious, and do you believe a god exists? If you want to have a discussion about why you believe a god exists in the first place, we can do that. But you're going to have to stop assuming that you know me before you even ask me questions.
@@danielt.4330 Greek and Roman cultures don't exist so using them as an example of a lasting culture is not much of an argumant.
Neither is using your experience to demoralize Judaism and it's laws. If you studied Talmud every day you know that a Jewish court who executed one person every 80 years were called terrorists by the Talmud. Want to talk about the US now?
You define yourself by the word "ex",like the others you are so full of hate- rightfully btw,if you were tought a immoral and inhuman Judaism you should be like that,but that's not Judaism.
@Charlie- online would be best. You can also contact Rabbis through Jewish sites of study or sites like chabad.org if you want someone to help you find something specific. Peace&Love
The whole argument is based on the premise that 600,000 people heard god speaking. How do you know that is true?
You can study Buddhism and find out for yourself if it makes sense or not.
Where can we see the list ???? Rabbi
rabbiwolbe.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Chain-of-Torah-Transmission-From-Moses-to-You-RYW.pdf
@@akivameir4734 Wow amazing list. Did Rabbi Wolbe publish some article explaining it? Thank you!
Where can we find “The Bomb”?
A Neve Yerushsalayim lecture. Neve is my alma mater in Judaism 'ברוך ה :)
That is nothing to be proud of. You have been brainwashed. Judaism is nonsense and Rabbi Keleman's argument is shit. His argument is predicated on false premises and fallacies...
Neve girls were the easy ones.
Lies lies lies. You are twisting the Torah to save your beliefs. Completely ignoring the blatant verses that contradict your beliefs because it' fits. Manipulative 100%
Ramban Numbers 15:22 9 - In the days of the wicked Kings such as Jeroboam MOST PEOPLE forgot the TORAH and COMMANDMENTS COMPLETELY.
[Thus at some future date the commandments must have been reintroduced to the bulk of the people. They were told the commandments were from G-d even though they had no recollection that these commandments being from G-d. Thus the national tradition consisting of G-d giving these commandments were introduced to a population having no record of such commandments. ] This destroys the Rabbi's argument.
Judges 2:8, Ramban Numbers 15:22, the whole Ezra thingy all strongly suggest much of Torah commandments are either introduced for the first time or reintroduced to a large population who knows not of them. Yet, that population accept all of it as if it came from Sinai. So national traditions can be introduced into a population who knows not of them.
D. Apple, you state "Ramban Numbers 15:22 9 - In the days of the wicked Kings such as Jeroboam MOST PEOPLE forgot the TORAH and COMMANDMENTS COMPLETELY." ... ...This destroys the Rabbi's argument. My response, but it does not say that they forgot the revelation of the Torah and commandments. They may not have known the specific contents, but they did know the revelation occurred. & that is the key to the point Rabbi Kelemen is making.
@ ME ME - You totally miss the point. The point is you can introduce commandments and Torah [lets assume for sake of argument only some of laws and some of Torah] to a population and they will accept them [as being from G-d] even though they know nothing of them. That defeats the Kuzari principle which claims that such a thing should not be possible. @ Me Me we had conversations elsewere. I am not sure you understand the Kuzari argument.
@ ME ME in case you did not see my previous comment "Judges 2:8, Ramban Numbers 15:22, the whole Ezra thingy all strongly suggest much of Torah commandments are either introduced for the first time or reintroduced to a large population who knows not of them. Yet, that population accept all of it as if it came from Sinai. So national traditions can be introduced into a population who knows not of them." GET IT NOW ?
@@DApple-sq1om It was only the book of Deuteronomy that was lost as far as I recall. It's debated but most agree that it was Deuteronomy, and not the entirety of what we call the Torah today.
First man ever Adam spoke
in Hebrew the Holy language
Hebrew man Adam placed hand in stream then raised same watery hand and exclaimed: Mah? Mayim!
Teutonic man centuries later placed hand in stream then raised same watery hand exclaiming: Vass? Vasser!
Latins/Anglo man centuries later placed hand in stream then raised up same watery hand exclaiming: What? Water!
French/Spanish man centuries placed hand in stream then raising same watery hand exclaiming: Quoi? Aqua!
Toda Rav
Even if it is all a lie, it is Hashem who is telling the lie. The lie neccessry to conceal his infinite light , the lie neccessry to give us life.
King Josiah - so according to the Rabbi, King Josiah, and his political supporters (i.e. the High Priest Hilkiah), created Judaism, as we've comes to know it, with the past lie? They had the proof, they found the book of Moses in the Temple. Maybe Hilkiah was the "Redactor" of the Documentary hypothesis?
This would be an interesting refute to the claim that there was no Fred, I thought about this too as I recall reading this, but if you think about it further that couldn't have created judaism we know today, Josiah would have taken a more central role in jewish history, but this isn't the case. And furthermore, there wasn't that big a gap where there weren't any descendants that didn't recall of a tradition that claims their ansestors heard G-d speak. This must have been verifiable at this time, therefore Josiah only served a role to reenforced what the people already knew and didn't serve as a model to start something new.
1. FIRST 4 WORD ,
" GOD " , CREATED THE HEBREW "" ALEF - to - TAV "" ( " THAT THE 4TH WORD " )
2. the 5TH,, WORD , "" with "" THE HEBREW ALFHA-BET , GOD CREATED THE UNIVERSE
yes GOD CREATED the UNIVERSE in 6 days , " that’s GOD 6 DAY "
( example : GOD SAY . LET THERE BE LIGHT - using the HEBREW ALFHA-BET )
( each , letter as up to 1000' S kind of PRIMARY - energy ) we can NOT see it .
3. the 6 . WORD , GOD CREATED the 2nd HEBREW ALFA-BET / the one we see
4. the 7th . WORD , GOD create our world with the 2nd ALFA-BET / YES , the one we see
GOD know we never ever ever know the all creation , our brian could not handle it , in any TIME -SPACE
4. there is more ,
you know what that mean , you can only pray in HEBREW " NO EXCEPTION "
GOD will only listen to a pray in Hebrew , by JEWISH SOUL
5. if you not a Jew , you can convert
and learn Hebrew , OR, ask a Jew to pray for you .
6. ISRAEL , is the HOLY LAND , and the Jews are the chosen by GOD .
GOD don’t change is word , we as human do
GOD would never allow his Hebrew bible to be corrupted , or translated
GOD control every- thing all the UNIVERSE and if GOD say , I give this land to the Jews , THAT'S IT
any one against ISRAEL or the Jews , IS AGAINST GOD
just look what happen around Israel , and you see it very clear
who say TIKKUN HOLAM . MUST KNOW
A. FIRST THERE IS = " TIKKUN JERUSALEM "
B 2ND " TIKKUN AREZ ISRAEL "
C. AND THEN there is " TIKKUN HOLAM "
IF YOU DON’T ,Understand those 3 , A-B-C . Please don’t pray to GOD
YOU WISTING YOUR TIME
MrJoesolar Actually, the Talmud does say that one may pray in a language other than Hebrew, even in one's own native language. History has valudated the Talmudic allowance or permission to do so. Otherwise, how to explain the historical fact that the ancient Jewish community of Alexandria, Egypt had forgotten even the Hebrew prayers by 250 BCE, that a special royal commission of Ptolemy II had decided to have the Tanakh translated into Greek for the benefit of the Jewish population of Alexandria which had become entirely illiterate in Hebrew. Of course, such illiteracy in Hebrew did not occur over night; indeed it had taken several generations for them to forget Hebrew, and you can rest assured that prayers were still offered at Shul and Hashem certainly heard them. That famous translation in antiquity, by the way, became known as the Septuagint. Returning to your comment, what Talmud does say is that Hebrew is the PREFERRED language of prayer, but not to be absolutely and completely exclusuonary.
I meant validated and not valudated...exclusionary and not exclusunary--all type os.
Where is he getting the idea that Shaul was alone during his experience near Damascus?
Acts says that those who were with him "heard a voice but saw no one". So there were no witnessess that Jesus appeared to him.
@Vassal Colony You are way way off. It says that at Sinai there were 600,000 men of army age, not including their wives, children, and the mixed multitudes which leff Egypt. At a minimum there were about 6 million people at Sinai (Jews and non Jews who converted upon seeing the miracles).
Yikes! This rabbi's synopsis of early Christian history is grossly inaccurate. Sorry, not much credibility after that.
23:00 ironically enough that is exactly what happened. The Bible tells us that the Jews didn't keep the Torah during the time of the shoftim(judges) and the kings, and all of a sudden king Josiah finds the book of Torah and they suddenly become religious again. Know your facts rabbi
If you actually read the story in 2 kings 22 you’d see the note in verse 13 where the king explains why he tore up his clothes. Not because they didn’t KNOW about the Torah but rather they haven’t KEPT it.
@@Alvarezsnwl so they knew about the exodus and just didnt practice it for 400 years? Makes sense 🙄
There were no "Orthodox" Jews thousands of years ago. Why does he keep calling them that?
@BasedCreationTRUTH Him referring to them as Orthodox Jews in the right context is a joke?
There is no difference. Orthodoxy was a named adopted as a response to reform heresies.
@@proudpharisee5303 Not true. Pre-Orthodox there were Traditional Jews. They're not the same thing.
@@Bulvan123 ya they aren’t the same thing; they lived in different eras. However, they practiced the same religion- the creeds were the same, the law was the same. This is not a matter of argument. This is easily empirically proven
@@proudpharisee5303 Traditional means following the law with most Jews not thinking about it, it's just what Jews do. Orthodox means I know I have options (I.e. getting a haircut, changing clothes & joining a Reform Temple) but I CHOOSE to follow the law. That's Orthodox. Every religious 8 year old is a "Traditional" Jew. They don't ask if there's a God or who wrote the Torah. What they were brought up believing is what they believe. But the 25 year old Jew that may question who wrote the Torah or if following the law is required and knows they can leave with very little consequences but chooses to stay and follow the laws is an Orthodox Jew. Big difference.
If the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth can be searched out, I will also reject all the seed of YIsrael for all that they have done.
Please in Spanish
The flaw in his logic is he says I told this group they heard God speak. No one would do that. They would call together a group and say we will do a few hours of yoga, meditation, chanting, prayer and singing (what does hearing god mean anyway?) and those that are worthy will hear god speak. After all these things ask those that heard god speak to stand up. Send the ones that didn't on their way and the rest "Heard God" and its up and running.
This guy is spreading lies abt the New testament
The NT is one lie! Numbers 23:19
Wow....anybody who has ever read the new testament would know this guy is completely misrepresenting the Gospel of Yeshua.
Which part exactly? Could you share the chapter and verse?
@@farhan.naushad 1.The speaker claims Shaul(Paul) was alone when he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. This is false according to Acts 9:7 Also, the road to Damascus was not 35 years after Jesus's crucifixion, this timeline does not even come close to matching up with New Testament accounts since the 12 disciples were still together in Jerusalem at the time. 2. The speaker claims that Paul was the only one to record all of Jesus's miracles. The books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John record a great many of Jesus's miracles as well 3. The speaker claims that it was Paul who declared Jesus was not only the Messiah but also God. Thus is false as Thomas declared Him to be God in John 20:28. Jesus also claimed Himself to be God in John 8:58. It's common for critics to claim Paul started a new religion, but this just isn't true. Christianity is not based on one man's experience, rather thousands of people heard Jesus speak and believed in Him. Hundreds saw Him after the resurrection according to 1 Corinthians 15:6. All that being said, I am a firm believer that the Torah is true and still valid today. I believe the Tanak prophesied about the coming Messiah and that Jesus is that fulfillment. He is the word made flesh.
His argument is so full of holes and he avoids them through strawman arguments.
@BasedCreationTRUTH He doesn't debate. I wonder why? I don't think hes personally playing around. He just got so caught up in his thought process that he never stepped back and took another look.
@BasedCreationTRUTH Even if I have nothing better to offer doesn't make it true.
@BasedCreationTRUTH and you never answered why he calls them Orthodox Jews, when it clearly wasn't a joke (the multiple times he did it).
@BasedCreationTRUTH I'm not an atheist. But that doesn't mean he made a good case. I wonder why his main post of this has the comments turned off?
@Creation&TorahTRUTH Maybe next will be not wanting to commit genocide on innocent children based on the actions of their ancestors (Amalek)?
Good lecture, except like always when anyone ever tries to talk about Islam they do it horribly(probably deliberately) and do not tell the truth.
You can argue about almost anything. There are people with PHDs who deny the Holocaust. Ultimately it is a matter of interpretation. People can choose as to what the goal of their intelllectual thoughts are. Lawyers commonly twist evidence four different ways. If someone is actually searching for truth, belief in the Torah is very rational. There is free will in this world. Argue away.
sounds fixed at 1:18 dw