Everyone is complaining about Glee, but I think the real problem is Chrysalis. It's absolutely everywhere, and it makes the Glee decks too resilient. If you ban Chrysalis, Glee combo turns into a glass cannon with no Plan B, and I think that's perfectly reasonable considering how easy it is to interact with the combo.
We say that now, and I think it is a reasonable assumption. But I am worried that it isn't going to make as much of a difference as we think from the combo angle. But yeah screw chrysalis that card is too much
Affinity and mono red are more problematic and format warping than glee. If they ban only chrysalis they will probably ban green again from the metagame which is bad.
Hey there, Arkam here (player that got the 5-0 with white weenie splashing black) Thx for adding my list to the video! If you don't mind, i'm going to explain some of the thought process behind it. Initially the plan was to overprepare for glee, but the match up is hideous, even with snuff outs and the curse. What i found out though, is that the black splash is very low cost, since the landscapes can generate mana when they enter. And it helps a lot against a lot of match ups. The mirror gets a lot better with access to fumes and arms of hadar, as does elves (previously close to impossible, now a good match up). Other random match ups like faeries, boros synth and glintblade also improve due to arms. Snuff out is key against Chrysalis decks. Crhysalis just clog the game as soon as it enters, and removing it imediately without tempo loss is awesome. Curse is decent against monored, so it allowed me to cut some of the sideboard for it. But it really shines against grull ramp. They have so many creatures and tokens, it eventually locks them out of the game. Monarch is good against control Matches, and very needed in those. It used to be palace sentinels, but thorn is better against chrysalis and terror, Plus it is nasty with prismatic strands.
@@JoseHernandez-wk5td it really depends on the control type. I recently replaced one arms of hadar and 2 ramosian rallys for 3 lumithread fields. If there is red in the control deck, i cut one lunarch for the 4th strands. If it is black based, i cut the strands for 3 lumithread fields. If it is a fog deck, i just cry 😂😂.
chrysalis and a card to slow down khuldota would be my choice, slowing down a little the meta and make more space for different combos and control decks
@@b4ptist Galv Blast also hits Madness, and Boros Synth... And at the end of the line an ape shaman with a maid outfit is waiting with a duster to remove all the trinkets that are needed to be cast in fire...
I'd say just Chrysalis. Each time you put up one of these vids, theres ANOTHER archetype that has started splashing to get the eggplant in the deck. Remove that, and the meta will move around a lot. For MTGOs sake, something from mono red could go too.
I'll be the devil's advocate and argue that Deadly Dispute needs a ban at least as badly as Chrysalis. Grixis Affinity obviously needs to be taken down a peg, and the alternatives to Dispute are (IMO) much worse in Glee. I love Dispute, it enables a lot of fun decks, but it is so messed up
In a format like pauper where there aren't many good removals and they are all black chrysalis is too much. 2 mana (4 with cashback) 4/5 that gets bigger and bigger, devoid (no BEB) and reach (killed boros, it's not played anymore). Ban chrysalis, golgari glee is manageable since it's a combo deck that can be stopped with one or two bolts (or duress, counterspells, etc...)
I've changed my mind a little bit about glee. While I think it is two steps in front of any other combo deck in the format (and that might be a problem), I think the main issue is the lack of a larger number of control decks in the format, pushed out of the meta by affinity. I therefore think banning either familiar or fountain could bring control back into the meta. I think a ban of broodscale could be reasonable, but maybe for now I would just slow it down banning deadly dispute (ancestral recall is a bit too much for pauper) and chrysalis. I think a couple of bans hitting terror and kuldotha would also be reasonable, in general I would love to see a lower power level in the format, it would make space for many different strategies that are just a tiny bit too slow. (Sorry for my english, I'm italian)
@@stefanofagiano7054 I can agree with everything for the most part. I would like to see hits on glee, affo, terror, chrysalis, and kuldotha of some kind Lower high end power level to make pauper more of a format where you can play to compete instead of playing only specific cards
I definitely support banning Chrysalis over Glee. Without Chrysalis the glee combo deck will go back to Golgari, it will still be very good but not as oppressive as the Jund list currently is. The alternative to banning anything could of course be some unbans, but that could be a dangerous road too.
IMO Chrysalis is the best creature in the format, but the decks that run it are fine besides Glee. RG Ramp is a fine deck and Jund Gardens is also a fine deck (at least those 3 are the ones I see Chrysalis on). IMO banning it because it made Glee too powerful instead of killing the combo is a really weird decision considering it'll hurt 3 decks but 2 of those aren't a problem. I also think that Glee is a more problematic deck strategy since it'll always be a factor for future releases: Any card that allows Glee to have a very stable midgame will make the deck oppressive, but this might be what this color combination or other strategies on those colors needs. And I don't think this is a good place to be in a designer perspective. So IMO even if you want to ban Chrysalis Glee should also go. Anyway, maybe my vision is distorted because I only play paper magic and the meta is slower on LGS's then it is on MTGO, but Chrysalis has been as frustrating as Terrors to me as comparison.
I think I agree overall, but I think banning chrysalis is still a fine route to take. I don't think that banning chrysalis would stop glee from being a huge meta share and oppressing the format though.
I think that the splashability is the reason that chrysalis should be banned over glee. While in a case of an A + B combo deck being opressive, the preferable choice is usually to choose the one that is the most likely to be used outside of said deck,I think chrysalis is the exception. That is because it is such a good creature on its own that is opressive to the point of being the most common high drop of any red green deck, which is a problem pauper has lately, some cards are too splashable and makes the decks somewhat homogenized, while that is obviously fine with interactions, not with creatures, which was the consequence of stuff such as cascade creatures and initiative creatures
My issue: There is a large amount of "decks with different names" yet a low amount of "decks with different cards." People always cite the former as an example of healthy metagame, but I disagree. When most of the tiered decks can be built centered on a handful of cards, those cards are clearly too strong. With this in mind reasonable bans would include all the artifact lands, glee, deadly dispute, tolarian terror, etc...I think that kind of shakeup would be good for the format personally.
Another amazing breakdown of the week! I personally love the state of pauper right now and hope nothing gets banned but if they do and things get shaken up then there will be a bunch of new decks to try out!
the biggest issue with your data it doesn't take into account that glee sees less mtgo play simply due to how many clicks it takes. this is true for all high click decks. I do think glee needs to go and that writhing chrysalis is a close second. not sure what could be cut from mono red but it might be the next target on the chopping block.
I just got all my paper affinity lands in retro frame so I hope they don't ban any of them... The format feels somewhat healthy...in the sense that it doesn't seem like there's cards that are format warping like All That Glitters before it got the axe. I do agree that a handful of decks taking up 40% of the meta is somewhat troublesome.
Glee and chrysalis would be my go to bans. With just those the meta is fine imo. If affinity and Mono red keep being a problem I can see a galvanic blast ban but I wouldn’t look at banning gal blast until next B&R
@@caseycornett5182 I wouldn't say Kuldotha and THIS iteration of affinity has been a problem for years. Has Kuldotha been strong for a while? Absolutely, But Mono-red has always had answers post sideboard. Breath Weapon, Weather the Storm, Suffocating Fumes to name a few. Their is a reason why it's win rate is never too high in the challenge data This iteration of Affinity is not the same Affinity that has been terrorizing the format for years imo. This isn't Atog fling or All that Glitters, Affinity now is a grind fest, but it is very much beatable through Combo routes. Glee isnt even a good matchup into Kuldotha, Kuldotha eats combo decks alive.
@jake2095 outside of the blip that was all that glitters this is the same affinity deck that has been around since the atog ban and the existence of the bridges. Kodotha itself while undergoing some changes has been the same deck on a base level for like 3 years. To me the same decks existing in basically the same configuration as the top two decks for all this time is a problem. It gets boring and some of us who have been playing the format for years are starting to put it down. So many of the great pauper grinders have left the format for this same reason.
Last week, in the LGP narration one of the commentators talked about the banning of ichor wellspring, what do you think about that? I'm always worried about bans affecting too many decks and taking away diversity from the format.
In my opinion, the current top decks are smushing diversity by solidifying what the right thing to be doing is. If you ban out the top strategies then the decks that were unplayable are now an option again. Wellspring ban is pretty minimal if you ask me
I think deadly dispute should also get banned. Its played in every single glee deck, affinity, gardens, and even cycle storm as a 4 of. Its essentially a 1 mana colorless draw spell as it replaces its colored mana cost with the treasure.
Glee is that high because the meta lacks good control strategies (faes and terror sometimes make results but its variance), and it is so because of affinity and chrysalis: you have an unfair card advantage engine and a spell that kills the 1for1 control strategy. With control back in the meta, glee will surely lower their results. Kuldotha is fine imo
The existence of dual lands that are both artefacts and indestructable is just too much. I think the best course of action would be banning them and replace them with two sets of dual land; one with the artifact archtype, and the other with indestructable (in order to maintain the current sinnergy with cleansing wildfire)
I've played against enough Glee to find that Trespasser's Curse is a dud against them. If they get Nadier's Nightblade out, the player just stacks the life loss + token triggers ahead of the Curse's triggers and it's gg. Same for Suture Priest. It's silly.
I would ban Chrysalis, Kuldotha Rebirth, All the bridges. Not that they are just pushing archetypes over the treshold, but they are also an incredibly boring cards
Let the world burn! Return Temporal Fissure! Hahahhaha! I joke, but there is only the issue of when I play irl too many play the same decks due to real life costs. If we just see the same few decks , and from what I've seen online we aren't, then there could be an issue.
I like to add another angle that many have already discussed as it might fix a lot of things without needing to ban anything: Downshift [Dryad Militant] to Common to give White and Green pilots a very effective tech to fight a lot of the format's haymakers
Dryad Militant's stax is so powerful a downshift would be utterly format warping. And while the window provided by RVR has passed, any of the UB sets (or simply the accelerated schedule) mean such a shift could be here before you know it.
I‘d prefer no bans. If I had to choose, it would be deadly dispute, weakening glee and affo. There are enough weaker replacements, maybe even leading to see a more diverse use of them.
The format is really fun right now. You have combo, aggro, tempo, midrange, and control options all in tier 1-1.5. Hopefully they either make no changes or unban something.
I personally dislike how much the bridges dominate the meta right now. However, if they were to get banned, I think that Ponza decks will become a lot more popular.
@kalikaiz jund glee quickly discarded them for landscapes. neither Ub or Ur Terror or Fae builds play them. so like...what, your mad that affinity exists? i love you, but this is your worst opinion.
I think the meta is fine. We have 5 tier 1 decks. Thats more variety than some formats have. Some decks are always going to be stronger than others. Its impossible to fix. Everyone of the tier 1 decks can be played around. If you wanna go rogue you can. You just need the proper tool box.
Brewing is what made MTG a lot more fun when we were new players, and Pauper is supposed to be a brewer's paradise. But the PFP members are just a bunch of handicaps that loves to rely on OP cards. The members should have been composed of brewers that have the best knowledge of the meta, instead of some lazy net deckers. Heisen is the only qualified PFP member, and a guy like Teasedale should have been included in the panel.
@kalikaiz Most of the founding members were already not active players at the time anyway. And some are just loud but not even good players. There's no reason to keep the status quo if the goal is to benefit the format.
I got some ideas that may help and my ban wish list: Pauper being an eternal format will have a natural tendency towards efficiency, same as modern, legacy, etc. The difference is that pauper is not supported as much as other eternal formats, and there will be unbalanced cards printed once in a while. On the other hand, some of the old cards have degenerate mechanisms that just kept getting better over the years, such as storm and affinity. With this in mind, and also accounting for the fact that pauper is considerably cheap as a format, i would think having a big ban every couple of years would be an amazing way to keep the format healthy (blue Monday is the perfect example for this). Also I would suggest the tendency to ban the older card first. Right now we could easily ban this list of cards without banning the decks that play them, and that would allow many strategies to come back: Myr enforcer: artifact lands and bridges are controversial, but for me the most frustrating thing about affinity is when they rebuild for free with two enforcers that where brought back eot. Also the can stand 3 points from shaman. Writhing chrysalis: totally weird card... Absolutely frustrating to play against a 4/5 that costs 2. Also has reach?? Wth... Deadly dispute: ancestral recall should stay in vintage Kuldotha rebirth + bushwhacker: 8 DMG out of nowhere after a board swipe? I have played this combo dozens of times and i hate to admit that it has to go Tolarian terror: control should not have a one mana threat that hits this hard I really believe this 4 bans would let the format thrive again without damaging any deck
The pauper format is so fun right now. With a lot of deck in existence competing. I hate it when control was the meta in pauper. The games are too slow.
Broodscale has to go. (Watches the rest of the video) Yeah Broodscale has to go. I think the format would be a lot healthier without Tolarian Terror as well. Bridges would be a fine ban in my opinion, though I don’t think you could ban the bridges & unban something like Glitters. Maybe Atog.
I dont understand the eggplant hate. Is it denying an archetype somewhere? Making specific decks worse doesnt always enable new decks. Sometimes it just makes dominant decks more dominant I'm definitely in the no bans camp. All the other formats rapidly change and invalidate decks already, and we have archetype diversity here
That thing deals well with all the creatures in the meta right now and it’s a pain in the neck to get rid of. Chrysalis alone killed a bunch of decks and one card doing that is no good. It’s problematic and it needs to go.
@kalikaiz I get the sentiment, but is that a ban worthy offense? It's not played in Kudoltha Red or Artifacts (unless I've missed it) so we're not talking homogeny (like Smuggler's Copter or The One Ring in other formats) I'd personally like more creatures to be a stat block. Especially when non creature spells are so potent. Reach isn't the strongest keyword in the world, so while it can grow big you have to give it trample if you want to get past chumps And my view may just be too skewed by other formats and what they tolerate before a ban is made. I know in the video you mentioned that no bans is probably the call, and with that I agree. If Eggplant was truly the strongest thing you could do in Pauper I'd imagine RG ramp would perform better because it can get that sucker out T2.
@joaomarcoscassiano5330 which decks died for Chrysalis? If that's the reason then sure. But if it gets banned and the format is all in grixis colors that would feel worse to me
@justwantawholename Chrisalys basically killed boros, bw blade and made the matchup for ww a lot harder, most flyers decks are dead besides faeries and therefore the best boardwipe right now is krark plus Toxin since we all fight on the ground cuz of chrysalis
just ban galvanic blast. its in both red and affinity and is just over the top 1 mana deal 4 with very little to get it online when artifact lands exist is just too good. wont happen though.
@@justinw4514 very little interaction? what deck are you playing? there can be a tonne of interaction in pauper. affinity could play galvanic discharge for removal. there is no reason they should get the ability to deal 16 to face. along with all the other garbage in the deck.
galv blast is not an issue and banning is absolutely nonsensical, refurbished familiar needs to go, mono red has kuldotha + bushwhacker that creates highly polarized games, in truth kuldotha needs to go, tomb raider needs to go, swiftspear should be unbanned, the panel has had a bad habit on banning cards that require thought to use, dumping everything at sorcery speed on your swiftspear can easily end up in disaster, where kuldotha. tomb raider and bushwhacker are completely braindead to use and a goblin guide at common with no downsides should've never been a thing in the first place, removing kuldotha also helps other decks against red, as they don't need boardwipes to necessarily deal with the board as 1on1 spot removal becomes much better, especially against a swiftspear going tall. Not to mention that some affinity lists don't even run galvanic and just prefer cast down.
Consensus: Chrysalis Hope: + Bushwhacker, Mirrodin lands cycle Pie in Sky: - Swiftspear (you can take anything you _actually_ should've banned in her place) Expectation: "No changes. We're keeping an eye... Placate with unban musings." 🥲
Everyone is complaining about Glee, but I think the real problem is Chrysalis. It's absolutely everywhere, and it makes the Glee decks too resilient. If you ban Chrysalis, Glee combo turns into a glass cannon with no Plan B, and I think that's perfectly reasonable considering how easy it is to interact with the combo.
We say that now, and I think it is a reasonable assumption. But I am worried that it isn't going to make as much of a difference as we think from the combo angle. But yeah screw chrysalis that card is too much
Affinity and mono red are more problematic and format warping than glee. If they ban only chrysalis they will probably ban green again from the metagame which is bad.
@ederfmartins I guess we will see. I think Gruul ramp can play without chrysalis
Our pauper tarmogoyf❤
@@ederfmartins Affinity is NOT problematic in its current state. I would argue mono red isn't either. The only ban worthy card right now is chrysalis.
Hey there, Arkam here (player that got the 5-0 with white weenie splashing black)
Thx for adding my list to the video! If you don't mind, i'm going to explain some of the thought process behind it.
Initially the plan was to overprepare for glee, but the match up is hideous, even with snuff outs and the curse.
What i found out though, is that the black splash is very low cost, since the landscapes can generate mana when they enter. And it helps a lot against a lot of match ups.
The mirror gets a lot better with access to fumes and arms of hadar, as does elves (previously close to impossible, now a good match up). Other random match ups like faeries, boros synth and glintblade also improve due to arms.
Snuff out is key against Chrysalis decks. Crhysalis just clog the game as soon as it enters, and removing it imediately without tempo loss is awesome.
Curse is decent against monored, so it allowed me to cut some of the sideboard for it. But it really shines against grull ramp. They have so many creatures and tokens, it eventually locks them out of the game.
Monarch is good against control Matches, and very needed in those. It used to be palace sentinels, but thorn is better against chrysalis and terror, Plus it is nasty with prismatic strands.
awesome thanks for the details and congrats on the trophy!
I Love your list, I'm not quite sure what you sideboard against control decks though
@@kalikaiz thank you for all the quality content.
@@JoseHernandez-wk5td it really depends on the control type. I recently replaced one arms of hadar and 2 ramosian rallys for 3 lumithread fields.
If there is red in the control deck, i cut one lunarch for the 4th strands. If it is black based, i cut the strands for 3 lumithread fields.
If it is a fog deck, i just cry 😂😂.
I love when Tobey Maguire talks Pauper
awesome thanks!
LOVE these vids - excellent/well done!
Thank you very much!
chrysalis and a card to slow down khuldota would be my choice, slowing down a little the meta and make more space for different combos and control decks
I agree with chrysalis. and I think galv blast hits both affinity and red.
deadly dispute, sneaky snacker and artifact indestructable lands. eitherartifact lands or indestructable lands (cant have it both ways)
@@michelefioratti3591 those are both reasonable I think
@@b4ptist Galv Blast also hits Madness, and Boros Synth... And at the end of the line an ape shaman with a maid outfit is waiting with a duster to remove all the trinkets that are needed to be cast in fire...
@@mateuszpk5511you're really saying Sneaky Snacker needs a ban? What in the world??
Chrysalis must go
@@turovieal4799 sure seems like it
I'd say just Chrysalis. Each time you put up one of these vids, theres ANOTHER archetype that has started splashing to get the eggplant in the deck. Remove that, and the meta will move around a lot. For MTGOs sake, something from mono red could go too.
Would be happy to see chrysalis leave
I'll be the devil's advocate and argue that Deadly Dispute needs a ban at least as badly as Chrysalis. Grixis Affinity obviously needs to be taken down a peg, and the alternatives to Dispute are (IMO) much worse in Glee.
I love Dispute, it enables a lot of fun decks, but it is so messed up
In a format like pauper where there aren't many good removals and they are all black chrysalis is too much.
2 mana (4 with cashback) 4/5 that gets bigger and bigger, devoid (no BEB) and reach (killed boros, it's not played anymore).
Ban chrysalis, golgari glee is manageable since it's a combo deck that can be stopped with one or two bolts (or duress, counterspells, etc...)
It's a reasonable approach
I've changed my mind a little bit about glee.
While I think it is two steps in front of any other combo deck in the format (and that might be a problem), I think the main issue is the lack of a larger number of control decks in the format, pushed out of the meta by affinity.
I therefore think banning either familiar or fountain could bring control back into the meta.
I think a ban of broodscale could be reasonable, but maybe for now I would just slow it down banning deadly dispute (ancestral recall is a bit too much for pauper) and chrysalis.
I think a couple of bans hitting terror and kuldotha would also be reasonable, in general I would love to see a lower power level in the format, it would make space for many different strategies that are just a tiny bit too slow. (Sorry for my english, I'm italian)
@@stefanofagiano7054 I can agree with everything for the most part. I would like to see hits on glee, affo, terror, chrysalis, and kuldotha of some kind
Lower high end power level to make pauper more of a format where you can play to compete instead of playing only specific cards
I definitely support banning Chrysalis over Glee. Without Chrysalis the glee combo deck will go back to Golgari, it will still be very good but not as oppressive as the Jund list currently is. The alternative to banning anything could of course be some unbans, but that could be a dangerous road too.
I can understand that but I still don't like to die to glee XD
IMO Chrysalis is the best creature in the format, but the decks that run it are fine besides Glee. RG Ramp is a fine deck and Jund Gardens is also a fine deck (at least those 3 are the ones I see Chrysalis on). IMO banning it because it made Glee too powerful instead of killing the combo is a really weird decision considering it'll hurt 3 decks but 2 of those aren't a problem.
I also think that Glee is a more problematic deck strategy since it'll always be a factor for future releases: Any card that allows Glee to have a very stable midgame will make the deck oppressive, but this might be what this color combination or other strategies on those colors needs. And I don't think this is a good place to be in a designer perspective. So IMO even if you want to ban Chrysalis Glee should also go.
Anyway, maybe my vision is distorted because I only play paper magic and the meta is slower on LGS's then it is on MTGO, but Chrysalis has been as frustrating as Terrors to me as comparison.
I think I agree overall, but I think banning chrysalis is still a fine route to take. I don't think that banning chrysalis would stop glee from being a huge meta share and oppressing the format though.
I think that the splashability is the reason that chrysalis should be banned over glee. While in a case of an A + B combo deck being opressive, the preferable choice is usually to choose the one that is the most likely to be used outside of said deck,I think chrysalis is the exception. That is because it is such a good creature on its own that is opressive to the point of being the most common high drop of any red green deck, which is a problem pauper has lately, some cards are too splashable and makes the decks somewhat homogenized, while that is obviously fine with interactions, not with creatures, which was the consequence of stuff such as cascade creatures and initiative creatures
My issue: There is a large amount of "decks with different names" yet a low amount of "decks with different cards."
People always cite the former as an example of healthy metagame, but I disagree. When most of the tiered decks can be built centered on a handful of cards, those cards are clearly too strong. With this in mind reasonable bans would include all the artifact lands, glee, deadly dispute, tolarian terror, etc...I think that kind of shakeup would be good for the format personally.
maybe we do need to add a nerf to kuldotha in there but I'm on board!
Another amazing breakdown of the week! I personally love the state of pauper right now and hope nothing gets banned but if they do and things get shaken up then there will be a bunch of new decks to try out!
Thank you so much!
Bridges and eggplant
the biggest issue with your data it doesn't take into account that glee sees less mtgo play simply due to how many clicks it takes. this is true for all high click decks. I do think glee needs to go and that writhing chrysalis is a close second. not sure what could be cut from mono red but it might be the next target on the chopping block.
i don't think that glee sees a small amount of play. It's very easy to click through
I just got all my paper affinity lands in retro frame so I hope they don't ban any of them...
The format feels somewhat healthy...in the sense that it doesn't seem like there's cards that are format warping like All That Glitters before it got the axe.
I do agree that a handful of decks taking up 40% of the meta is somewhat troublesome.
I think that there is just this absurd gap between what is insane and what is maybe playable basically
Glee and chrysalis would be my go to bans. With just those the meta is fine imo. If affinity and Mono red keep being a problem I can see a galvanic blast ban but I wouldn’t look at banning gal blast until next B&R
@@jake2095 understandable
koldotha and affinity have been problems for years. Weakening the decks that are decent against them will only make it worse.
@@caseycornett5182 I wouldn't say Kuldotha and THIS iteration of affinity has been a problem for years.
Has Kuldotha been strong for a while? Absolutely, But Mono-red has always had answers post sideboard. Breath Weapon, Weather the Storm, Suffocating Fumes to name a few. Their is a reason why it's win rate is never too high in the challenge data
This iteration of Affinity is not the same Affinity that has been terrorizing the format for years imo. This isn't Atog fling or All that Glitters, Affinity now is a grind fest, but it is very much beatable through Combo routes.
Glee isnt even a good matchup into Kuldotha, Kuldotha eats combo decks alive.
@jake2095 outside of the blip that was all that glitters this is the same affinity deck that has been around since the atog ban and the existence of the bridges. Kodotha itself while undergoing some changes has been the same deck on a base level for like 3 years. To me the same decks existing in basically the same configuration as the top two decks for all this time is a problem. It gets boring and some of us who have been playing the format for years are starting to put it down. So many of the great pauper grinders have left the format for this same reason.
I think glee being a deck is good for the format, Chrysalis needs to go though, and many Glee decks being Golgari proves that the deck will live on.
Last week, in the LGP narration one of the commentators talked about the banning of ichor wellspring, what do you think about that?
I'm always worried about bans affecting too many decks and taking away diversity from the format.
In my opinion, the current top decks are smushing diversity by solidifying what the right thing to be doing is. If you ban out the top strategies then the decks that were unplayable are now an option again. Wellspring ban is pretty minimal if you ask me
I think deadly dispute should also get banned. Its played in every single glee deck, affinity, gardens, and even cycle storm as a 4 of. Its essentially a 1 mana colorless draw spell as it replaces its colored mana cost with the treasure.
That card is really absurd it is true. I don't think banning just dispute would fix anything though. Perhaps it should still be axed
REPRINT DUST TO DUST
no bridges, no dust required :thonk:
Glee is that high because the meta lacks good control strategies (faes and terror sometimes make results but its variance), and it is so because of affinity and chrysalis: you have an unfair card advantage engine and a spell that kills the 1for1 control strategy. With control back in the meta, glee will surely lower their results. Kuldotha is fine imo
Overall I've been smacking around control with my glee build. I'm not sure control is what will stop it. Lets see
The existence of dual lands that are both artefacts and indestructable is just too much. I think the best course of action would be banning them and replace them with two sets of dual land; one with the artifact archtype, and the other with indestructable (in order to maintain the current sinnergy with cleansing wildfire)
Well I don't think the PFP has the ability to blanket print cards but maybe that could be ideal lol
I would love Sadistic Glee and Familiat
that rat is so low key busted!
I'm here to watch pauper explode and watch the ban talk 🔥
Lets see what happens! Ban videos sure get people fired up!
I've played against enough Glee to find that Trespasser's Curse is a dud against them. If they get Nadier's Nightblade out, the player just stacks the life loss + token triggers ahead of the Curse's triggers and it's gg. Same for Suture Priest. It's silly.
Yeah completely does not work, just a speed bump
Chrysalis is supposed to be uncommon...what wotc was thinking....
but the limited format!
when i see chrysalis i think the designer might have had a bit too much of a drink before doing the card 💀
@joaomarcoscassiano5330 I heard they ended up making a bunch of last minute changes
Why don't we wait for mh4 so they add more cards that help tier 2 decks? /s
I looked and I actually don't know when the next MH style set is lol
ban broodscale or chrysalis, unban prism.
Unban everything and see how it shakes out!
This is fun as an idea but sadly the meta is basically just mono u vs storm vs mono black initiative. It's not super fun overall haha
Banning glee is fine as long as they bring some good shit to make dredge stronger XD
dredge is a sweet deck, lets see!
I would ban Chrysalis, Kuldotha Rebirth, All the bridges.
Not that they are just pushing archetypes over the treshold, but they are also an incredibly boring cards
@@LANMEE2 I feel you
Let the world burn! Return Temporal Fissure! Hahahhaha! I joke, but there is only the issue of when I play irl too many play the same decks due to real life costs. If we just see the same few decks , and from what I've seen online we aren't, then there could be an issue.
Lets see what happens! Probably no storm unbans though haha
Combining Terror decks makes as much sense as combining Glee decks.
Personally I don't think that combining all the terror decks makes that much sense. But terror is still kinda over the line
I like to add another angle that many have already discussed as it might fix a lot of things without needing to ban anything: Downshift [Dryad Militant] to Common to give White and Green pilots a very effective tech to fight a lot of the format's haymakers
While this could maybe be an option, downshifts require a development cycle and those take up to 2 years. Will the same downshift matter in 2 years?
Dryad Militant's stax is so powerful a downshift would be utterly format warping.
And while the window provided by RVR has passed, any of the UB sets (or simply the accelerated schedule) mean such a shift could be here before you know it.
@crunchtag true story. When is the next one!
I dont like o play against Kuldotha but banning may be too much
i could understand that
I‘d prefer no bans. If I had to choose, it would be deadly dispute, weakening glee and affo. There are enough weaker replacements, maybe even leading to see a more diverse use of them.
I appreciate the response, but I sortof feel like constantly nerfing instead of fixing problems is not good enough for me :)
Lets see!
@ Let‘s see indeed 🙂
Maybe it would be better to unban something?
What are we thinking?
The format is really fun right now. You have combo, aggro, tempo, midrange, and control options all in tier 1-1.5. Hopefully they either make no changes or unban something.
It's true for sure, but I think it really hurts the rest of the format due to power gap
I personally dislike how much the bridges dominate the meta right now. However, if they were to get banned, I think that Ponza decks will become a lot more popular.
when will you people get over your mindless disdain for bridges? they're barely played outside grixis affinity at this point
Almost every deck that is two colors or more plays bridges
@kalikaiz jund glee quickly discarded them for landscapes. neither Ub or Ur Terror or Fae builds play them. so like...what, your mad that affinity exists?
i love you, but this is your worst opinion.
I think it's well past time Pioneer Pauper and Standard Pauper get their time in the sun.
Convince mtgo to add a queue haha
@kalikaiz there actually used to be a standard pauper queue on mtgo, but one of the current PFP members advocated for killing it
I think the meta is fine. We have 5 tier 1 decks. Thats more variety than some formats have. Some decks are always going to be stronger than others. Its impossible to fix. Everyone of the tier 1 decks can be played around. If you wanna go rogue you can. You just need the proper tool box.
What do you count as tier 1? is jund glee and bg glee different? personally i think not really
It's always the worst time of my day when 2nd best spider man wants to ban cards in my deck
:(
I'm on the spider man list! woo!
I am of the standard opinion: ban things i don't like, unban things I like XD XD
Ban: Glee and Kolhuldotha Rebirth
Watch: Terror and Crysalis
interesting!
Quite small sample of games.. decks that had enough games to be evaluated performed mediocre, or even bad. Seems that meta is very open to new decks.
The winrates of the challenges have varied a lot from weekend to weekend
First
thanks for coming!
Here’s a wild idea: No bans.
Do you mean unban everything or just do not do any bans now?
and watch the format burn to the ground ☠
Brewing is what made MTG a lot more fun when we were new players, and Pauper is supposed to be a brewer's paradise. But the PFP members are just a bunch of handicaps that loves to rely on OP cards.
The members should have been composed of brewers that have the best knowledge of the meta, instead of some lazy net deckers. Heisen is the only qualified PFP member, and a guy like Teasedale should have been included in the panel.
To be fair both Teasdale and I were not really making names for ourselves when the panel was formed.
@kalikaiz Most of the founding members were already not active players at the time anyway. And some are just loud but not even good players. There's no reason to keep the status quo if the goal is to benefit the format.
Weber is a very good player, and won 4 times the nacional Pauper Brasil, so…yeah he is qualified
I got some ideas that may help and my ban wish list:
Pauper being an eternal format will have a natural tendency towards efficiency, same as modern, legacy, etc. The difference is that pauper is not supported as much as other eternal formats, and there will be unbalanced cards printed once in a while. On the other hand, some of the old cards have degenerate mechanisms that just kept getting better over the years, such as storm and affinity. With this in mind, and also accounting for the fact that pauper is considerably cheap as a format, i would think having a big ban every couple of years would be an amazing way to keep the format healthy (blue Monday is the perfect example for this). Also I would suggest the tendency to ban the older card first.
Right now we could easily ban this list of cards without banning the decks that play them, and that would allow many strategies to come back:
Myr enforcer: artifact lands and bridges are controversial, but for me the most frustrating thing about affinity is when they rebuild for free with two enforcers that where brought back eot. Also the can stand 3 points from shaman.
Writhing chrysalis: totally weird card... Absolutely frustrating to play against a 4/5 that costs 2. Also has reach?? Wth...
Deadly dispute: ancestral recall should stay in vintage
Kuldotha rebirth + bushwhacker: 8 DMG out of nowhere after a board swipe? I have played this combo dozens of times and i hate to admit that it has to go
Tolarian terror: control should not have a one mana threat that hits this hard
I really believe this 4 bans would let the format thrive again without damaging any deck
That list is pretty similar to mine overall, but it would be nice to see a major overhaul
@kalikaiz yeah! It's similar because I agree with you and most players in that some change is necessary... Oh, and thanks for the content!
The pauper format is so fun right now. With a lot of deck in existence competing. I hate it when control was the meta in pauper. The games are too slow.
I can definitely understand that point of view haha
Maybe the best ban could be deadly dispute
It's a fine idea as a nerf to a few things. I doubt it will have much real impact
Broodscale has to go.
(Watches the rest of the video)
Yeah Broodscale has to go. I think the format would be a lot healthier without Tolarian Terror as well.
Bridges would be a fine ban in my opinion, though I don’t think you could ban the bridges & unban something like Glitters. Maybe Atog.
I think broodscale combo definitely needs a ban. I would really prefer they go for my whole hog scenario
I dont understand the eggplant hate. Is it denying an archetype somewhere? Making specific decks worse doesnt always enable new decks. Sometimes it just makes dominant decks more dominant
I'm definitely in the no bans camp. All the other formats rapidly change and invalidate decks already, and we have archetype diversity here
Eggplant is basically just another "if I can cast it it goes in my deck" and the thing is an absolute stats machine
That thing deals well with all the creatures in the meta right now and it’s a pain in the neck to get rid of. Chrysalis alone killed a bunch of decks and one card doing that is no good. It’s problematic and it needs to go.
@kalikaiz I get the sentiment, but is that a ban worthy offense? It's not played in Kudoltha Red or Artifacts (unless I've missed it) so we're not talking homogeny (like Smuggler's Copter or The One Ring in other formats)
I'd personally like more creatures to be a stat block. Especially when non creature spells are so potent. Reach isn't the strongest keyword in the world, so while it can grow big you have to give it trample if you want to get past chumps
And my view may just be too skewed by other formats and what they tolerate before a ban is made.
I know in the video you mentioned that no bans is probably the call, and with that I agree. If Eggplant was truly the strongest thing you could do in Pauper I'd imagine RG ramp would perform better because it can get that sucker out T2.
@joaomarcoscassiano5330 which decks died for Chrysalis? If that's the reason then sure. But if it gets banned and the format is all in grixis colors that would feel worse to me
@justwantawholename Chrisalys basically killed boros, bw blade and made the matchup for ww a lot harder, most flyers decks are dead besides faeries and therefore the best boardwipe right now is krark plus Toxin since we all fight on the ground cuz of chrysalis
just ban galvanic blast. its in both red and affinity and is just over the top 1 mana deal 4 with very little to get it online when artifact lands exist is just too good. wont happen though.
"Let's ban the one of the best interactive tools in a format with very little interaction" ok
@@justinw4514 very little interaction? what deck are you playing? there can be a tonne of interaction in pauper. affinity could play galvanic discharge for removal. there is no reason they should get the ability to deal 16 to face. along with all the other garbage in the deck.
I mean, I think it’s a bit insane that Affinity, Mono R and Madness can dumpster you from 8 life if you tap out.
@@justinw4514 in what world does pauper have very little interaction? It has more than Standard or Pioneer, arguably more than Modern.
galv blast is not an issue and banning is absolutely nonsensical, refurbished familiar needs to go, mono red has kuldotha + bushwhacker that creates highly polarized games, in truth kuldotha needs to go, tomb raider needs to go, swiftspear should be unbanned, the panel has had a bad habit on banning cards that require thought to use, dumping everything at sorcery speed on your swiftspear can easily end up in disaster, where kuldotha. tomb raider and bushwhacker are completely braindead to use and a goblin guide at common with no downsides should've never been a thing in the first place, removing kuldotha also helps other decks against red, as they don't need boardwipes to necessarily deal with the board as 1on1 spot removal becomes much better, especially against a swiftspear going tall.
Not to mention that some affinity lists don't even run galvanic and just prefer cast down.
Consensus: Chrysalis
Hope: + Bushwhacker, Mirrodin lands cycle
Pie in Sky: - Swiftspear (you can take anything you _actually_ should've banned in her place)
Expectation: "No changes. We're keeping an eye... Placate with unban musings." 🥲
@@crunchtag expectations are going to be correct and I'll be teary