I actually thought this was one of the stronger episodes this season, and thought it had a great sense of tension throughout. And it was just nice to see these normally happy-go-lucky characters acting like real, complex human beings struggling with trauma. And it really makes me wish we could get MORE episodes like this instead of the lightweight fluff we usually get.
We ARE getting entirely too much fluff and gimmicks. I honestly thought we were going to get more serious science-fiction. So far I only enjoyed 'Ad Astra per Aspera' and this episode.
@@PaulChristianJenkinsJD I actually think they do the lighter comedic episodes really well, I just wish there was a lot more of the heavier, dramatic stuff, that doesn't involve them making wisecracks every 5 minutes.
@@davidjames1389 It seems like this season they are content with whimsical stories, Spock and Nurse Chapel, and the upcoming musical episode. Their overconfidence shows.
"Slightly darker" is definitely an understatement, but holy crap this was excellent. What was fascinating was that it was written specifically to highlight how those that don't know PTSD sometimes can't wrap their heads around how it actually works. With respect to Rah "killing his men", I think the rationale is that he took credit for it so Starfleet believed that he was sincere in defecting, and if he ran back to the Klingons while all of his other officers were killed by the Federation he would have been dishonored and killed.
Absolutely. Klingons are not supposed to run away but instead die in battle as that is supposed to be glorious. Running away even as survival could be seen as cowardice especially a general.
@@eddiek8179 It is complex, as General Martok was captured by the Dominion and that is often seen as a great shame, yet he managed to regain his position in the Empire and retain his house. On the other hand, Klag's father from "A Matter of Honor" in s2 of TNG had a similar story as he was captured by the Romulans, but he was left to die in dishonor after escaping instead. My sense has always been that powerful Klingons in leadership roles are much, much more about stark pragmatism, realism, and self-preservation, and that circumstances would have to be pretty dire for Rah to defect.
@@Justjakelive Yes - but there are probably Klingon generals in similar situations that manage to get away scot free while leaving their subordinates to "die honorably".
I really feel this was a much deeper episode than you give it credit, first was the hint that M’Benga was actually a soldier before he became a doctor and he had developed the serum and used it before he became a doctor. As for the Klingon of course he would claimed he killed everyone rather than state he was the coward he truly was. The camp really did bring back vibes of MASH and of course seeing Clint Howard was also great. Robert Wisdom who played the ambassador was also very good.
Nick, Pike did not force M'Benga or Chappell or anyone else to attend the dinner. He gave them the option and they said they would. They could have declined the invitation without any blowback. As for the serum, MBenga himself said that it was something that was never to be used frivolously and certainly not as a convenient 'get out of jail free card', as its side effects are so severe. I'd say the two situations that we have seen it used in, so far, certainly warrant it. I loved this episode. It brought up and dealt with some difficult issues and for me, was classic Trek.
In the DS9 episode Trials and Tribblations (I think I spelled that right) when the Defiant crew travel back to the Trouble with Tribbles episode of the original series, Odo asks for a raktajino while on the K7 space station, although the waitress had never heard of it, she later mentions that the Klingons on shore leave had also ordered it.
I think one reason you're struggling to see how being known as the Butcher who killed his own men helped the ambassador is because he wasn't there as a Klingon diplomat. He was there as the Federation representative to negotiate with the Klingons. When he defected he gained credibility because he convinced the Federation he killed them out of loss of honor and guilt and they could trust his conversion to peace
The dynamic between M'Benga and Rah strongly reminded me of Major Kira and Gul Dukat. The use of Discovery footage of the Klingon War was a nice touch, as was T'Kuvma's epithet. Always happy to see Clint Howard put in a Trek appearance! Also, I kept hearing the theme from M*A*S*H playing in my head when injured patients were being beamed in.
Nah, nothing like Kira and Dukat. Kira is the brave little mouse, and Dukat? He da Cat. With those two its all suppressed sexual tension and point scoring. Kira was a diversity pick by Starfleet to keep the Bajorans sweet. M'benga was Starfleet.
@@pangaeawriter8766 Well, I can see that might be the case with Kira, but her relationship with Dukat was far more complex. Full of sexual tension and inner conflict. Like Batman and Joker. Kinda. I guess we all died a little in that damned war.
@@Rockmanxpr The soldier that was injured but yet when healed was eager to go back to the front line was also a M*A*S*H callback. Even the actor looked similar.
I liked this one. Clint Howard is always fun to watch, but this may have been his best acting performance ever. I think this episode might win an award for high drama. Well done.
2:38. The sound effect connects this with TOS episodes where people took food from compartments that could be programmed to provide anything - with a puff of vapor. I remember Chapel giving ice cream to some children there.
It was my impression that he claimed to have killed his own men in order to bolster his odds of being granted asylum by the Federation. The idea that the crimes being committed on J'Gal were so heinous that even a Klingon general couldn't accept it, and killed his own men to put an end to it, would have carried a lot of weight to his plea for clemency.
The fact that the death of the ambassador wound up being basically a “no big deal” Samberly odd to me. Much worse public relations are a few people not attending a dinner.
This is a huge hole within the show that also featured in the original series. Supposedly this an earlier time in space exploration and captains have a lot more leeway. But they blew up a mining station that probably cost a trillion space dollars and just turned an important diplomat into stabbed to death and no one at the Federation ever says wtf.
Not sure why you have an issue with the dinner. Senior Officers frequently have to be involved in diplomatic efforts. If Rah goes to his next Federation meeting at headquarters and tells them that he felt unwelcomed on Enterprise then that is a major hit on both Pike and his senior staff. It has happened after every war. Both in Germany and Japan after WW2 (for example).
The problem was the hot shot pilots throwing a temper tantums because the klingon ambassador is on the ship. Pike should have cut her off and dismissed her to her cabin until she grows up act like an star fleet officer
The Vietnamese Officers got to confront McNamara about his ridiculous Domino Theory showing his total lack of historic knowledge of Vietnam's struggle to stay off the Chinese from being conquered.
I loved it. To my this was the best episode of any television show ever. Firefly did great things in its tributes to those who have suffered the choices war presents, this was amazing.
I actually came away from this episode with a little bit of PTSD myself. I felt rather shocked and sad for M'Bega and all those who fought in that war. I could feel it from their perspective. In that respect, I think the acting from phenomenal and the story very pointing and extremely well done. Do I want to watch it again? Not for a while. This will be the first SNW episode I haven't watched twice right after release.
I don’t like that Mbenga gets credit for this technique as originally it was supposed to be a genius engineering trick that made it work at all and nobody up to Geordi’s time 75 years later had even considered it before finding Scotty.
The end left me with an odd feeling I last had at the near end of ST TNG:The most toys. When Data was about to kill Fajo but got transported away, claiming something happened during transport.
Where did they say or show M'benga picking up the knife or stabbing him? Dak'Rah's fingerprints were on the knife, along with M'benga's. I liked the way they left that unanswered. You could read M'benga's "I didn't start it" line as implying he finished it, but he didn't say that he did.
Yes it is vague because there is no answer. Should this dude be allowed to help the Federation? Maybe. Should we care if M'Benga shivved him? Maybe. No right or wrong answer.
I think the point is valid about Pike asking his crew. He definitely asked gently. But I fell like he asked because of perspective. You have to confront things to heal from them, I think he had the best interests of his officers in mind even if it was uncomfortable. And there's no way he could have known their exact roles.
Didn't *anyone* notice that the guy was not a Klingon ambassador, but a Klingon *defector* working as a Federation ambassador? He was not Hitler's ambassador to the Jewish, but a former Nazi officer working as an UN ambassador after the war. Former Allied officers would distrust him, but having dinner with him was not a strenuous imposition, just everyday protocol. Pike was being extremely considerate, not ruthless. Homework: rewatch the episode and pay attention next time.
12:23. Ambassador Dak'Rah *was not* a Klingon ambassador to the Federation. Was a Klingon *defector* who was working as a *Federation ambassador.* The Butcher of J'gal was how the Klingon called him after his defection, as he told the Federation he had killed his own men to escape. That's why the Federation believed he had truly changed sides. He killing his men meant he had totally cut ties with his people and he loathed what had happened in the battle - and massacre - which he had ordered. (It appears you need to rewatch the episode. The guy being a Federation ambassador and not a Klingon ambassador fixes the logic.)
He took credit and said he killed his own men in order to defect to the federation (look I’m on your side I hated this so much I fought my own side to stop it), he never had to face the Klingon dishonor, though running away would have been worse dishonor for the Klingons than killing your own crew for failing so there is that.
Finally, someone is voicing the concerns I have about this show. Starfleet is a weak and anaemic organization and Captain Pike makes horrible decisions. I did relate to this show because I lost my husband about 7 years ago and I can related to grief. It's there and it never leaves you. Just like the horrors of war. I hope this episode helps others who suffer from the pain of grief and PTSD.
I think you kind of miss the point on this one. Those officers of Pike's who have post-traumatic syndrome had not ever revealed this to Pike. Pike did not serve in the Klingon war along with most of his crew. So him not being fully aware of the severity of this condition in some of his officers is perfectly understandable since they never revealed it to him. Now as far as him urging his officers to attend this dinner affair with his senior officers, of course he would want his senior officers to show this Klingon, who is being lauded as a great peacemaker, the full courtesy of the flagship. I think this episode was brilliant in showing the dichotomy between those who served in the Klingon conflict, as opposed to those who didn't, such as Pike. I think it was perfectly natural under the conditions, and understanding that Pike had, he would feel his ship was representing the whole federation, and therefore wanted to put the federation's best foot forward to this perceived dignitary, and perceived revolutionary Klingon. I think the breakdown was with every one of those officers who felt that they could not honor this person because every one of them, when approached by the captain, had the ability to really express what they were going through, and how any one of them really felt, but instead they capitulated to the captain's wishes without him being aware until they displayed their true feelings at the dinner. I don't find any fault with Captain Pike because he just did not know the extent of what was going on, and neither one of these officers really explained it to him, they displayed it to him at the dinner table. It is understandable that people who serve in very traumatic conflicts never like to speak of it because they are not fully recovered from it, but also it is hard for those who did not serve in these conflicts to understand the severity of what these people are going through. I think this episode exposed both sides of it brilliantly.
A captain would have read the personnel files of his senior staff and known their psychological profiles. This is still the military. There is no excuse for him to be so uninformed and weak in this episode. The writers just wanted to drive home the point that Pike doesn’t understand the horrors of war. And they brought him down to do it rather than raising the other characters up. It’s weak writing.
The guy was not a Klingon ambassador, but a Klingon defector working as a Federation ambassador. The senior officers dining with a Federation ambassador is nothing extraordinary. Except that this Federation ambassador is quite extraordinary.
I agree with @williambriant. People with PTSD don’t go around telling everyone every time they have symptoms. How do we know it would be in their file? Lots of people suffer in silence.
Well he said it best to pike. Pike had the privilege of being able to believe in 2nd chances for other people because he wasn’t there, M’benga had otherwise this was such a great episode that really gives you a clear image of what war can do to a person and how much it destroys someone.
Regarding replicators in Star Trek, they introduced this pretty early in the TOS era, for an example in the Season 1 episode 19 "Tomorrow is Yesterday", where they go back in time to the 1960's and capture a fighter pilot, there was that scene where an airbase guard is beamed up to the Enterprise, and while he's waiting he requests chicken soup, and the transporter chief replicates it for him in the transporter room's replicator. I'm sure there were even earlier references to it, but that's the first one I remembered.
@@trevorwhite915 Food replicators are what we're talking about here. When those replicators worked they not only made the food, but also the tray, the dishes, the cutlery, etc. The only difference was that all of the magic happened behind a door that opened up when it was complete. Now they just use the same effects as the transporters to show the replication out in the open.
They were using food replicators back in the TOS. Season 1 Episode 20 "Tomorrow is Yesterday"; A 20th century U.S. Airmen taken back to the Enterprise asks the transporter engineer for chicken soup. The engineer then uses a food replicator to oblige the airmen's request.
I think I agree with you about Pike insisting that Ortega, Chapel and M’Benga attend the dinner. Knowing Pike’s character I don’t think he would force them either. They clearly had the symptoms of PTSD from their experiences as evidenced by the graphic nature of the war scenes. I just don’t think Pike would do that, he’s too sensitive and empathetic to the emotional states of his senior staff.
He didn't force them, he told them they didn't have to go. He also didn't force Ortegas and Chappel to stay at the table and he told M'Benga to leave as well
@@Icybubba Yes, my use of the word ‘insisting’ was inaccurate. However, I feel that there was intolerable pressure on Ortega, Chapel, and Dr. M’Benga in particular to attend the dinner. Firstly, it was from their duty to the Federation and its all encompassing influence over their lives, and secondly, their respect for and loyalty to their captain and their deep need not to disappoint or let him down. It’s testament to the excellent writing and the performances that M’Benga’s and Chapel’s pain in particular was so evident.
Respectfully, I have to disagree with you. I see this episode a bit differently than you. Feels like you're a bit dismissive just because of a couple of character twists and turns. For me, the gritty storyline totally reeled me in. It took us deep into the world of PTSD, while also showing us a different perspective of the Klingon War. Made me think, and that's what good TV does, right? And how about the realism they brought to a Starfleet battlefield? Dealing with wounded soldiers, running low on supplies, making tough calls on who gets treated first, it was like getting a behind the scenes look at what the Federation is like when things get real. Made me wonder how their lofty ideals hold up in the face of something like battlefield triage. Plus, it was cool to get a glimpse of what boots on the ground fighting might look like in the Star Trek universe. I've known many Vets in my life including my own father and grandfather and numerous friends with real combat experience. This episode wasn't far off from stories I've heard. Especially their position getting bombarded constantly, my father said it was the same in 'Nam, their position was constantly getting shelled, or subject to night raids or sniper attacks. Can you imagine the stress that puts on a person in that situation. If I had a star on my show that had a martial arts background I would absolutely make that part of his character. Now we know M'benga was a ghost like assassin badass that even the Klingons feared, how is that not awesome character development, especially knowing that Chapel was there the whole time and witnessed it, and there is a shared dynamic and bond between them born from battlefield trauma. How many times did we witness Worf teaching martial arts classes or practicing with his Bat'leth in TNG... I never once thought "oh we get it, hes a Klingon ninja, please stop showing us how cool Worf is"... Just my 2¢, but I'd say this episode's probably my favorite of the season. Not to take anything away from a broadway musical themed episode or whatever next weeks episode is supposed to be about, but off hand that sounds a little more like hoaky filler to me than episode 8 could ever be.
I could feel M'Benga's pain when he purged the transporter buffer. He knew it was something that HAD to be done, no doubt about it. It also freed Christine from potentially "murdering" Alvarado.
He murdered a man in peace time that held a position that could stop more war. We are all just niave young men that sign up to serve. But the first time you see action and lock eyes with your enemy. You realize that the guy on the other side is also someones young niave son. War is not just seeing the horror of your men dieing around you but also seeing your enemy who is just taking orders like you die. Seeing death on a large scale changes you. Not all guys are built for it. A lot of guys crack and my heart goes out to them. But killing in peace time is wrong. This is not the star trek way.
The inconsistency was not that Captain Pike asked his officers to join the dinner, but that the Federation policy was to 1) allow folks with serious and ongoing PTSD to go back into active service, and 2) encourage those traumatized by the war to make nice with an infamous Klingon general.
Absolutely brilliant. The crew are people, people we can really identify with. For all the ideals of the Federation, prejudices are still rife and hurt is still hurt. Pike didn't recognise the PTSD as it presented , as highlighted by Ortegas, as a distaste for Klingons because of their behaviour and reputation.Klingons believe in honour so killing men who killed civilians as it would dishonour them seems to have been the Ambassador's action for claiming the work of M'Benga.
hey nick..the reason he claimed he killed his soldiers was to look good to the federation, therby becoming ambassador... hope you are well.. peace..rocky
The predecessor of the replicator was used in the TOS era. They were called food processors. They were a little more limited in what they could produce. If you'll recall, "The Trouble with Tribbles," Scotty was complaining because the tribbles made their way into them.
You're right - that shows that even in the future, PTSD is still not really taken seriously. It is a completely flawed decision by Pike and also by Starfleet Command to put his officers in such a situation. However, I agree, this is a mistake by the writers, the character of Pike would never have done such a thing.
Agreed. It’s one thing to not fully understand PTSD but it’s another to be a completely incompetent captain who is unfamiliar with his senior officers’ history and psych profiles and then sits back while chaos ensues.
Didn't you realize the guy was not a Klingon ambassador, but a Klingon defector working as a Federation ambassador? The senior officers dining with a Federation ambassador is nothing extraordinary. Of course, the guy was not ordinary Federation ambassador.
If only we had seen them do the PTSD thing in Star Trek before!! Oh, wait... they've done the PTSD thing in just about every live action star trek series there has ever been!!! (And did it beter each time.)
Pike under orders, command always wants to fix things. Klingons are our friends now! Me in Iraq, the Iraqis are on our side, even thou every IED used in our battle space was with in 400 meters of a check point manned by IA or IP (Iraq army or police) now do you understand! Command can be blinded by what it wants to happen!
You grew up on TNG. Watch TOS and learn. DS9 was written by real adults for real adults. The stuff you gush over is silly. The ambassador ran away and he claimed to be the Butcher of J'gal because it enhanced his rep with the Federation. M'Benga is badass! I hope they keep him around. Killer and healer in one package!
Anyone remember season one when Dr. M'Bengawas a warm, empathic person who always had a clever joke and good advice? Now he's a drug-abusing, knife-murdering serial killer with PTSD. Anyone remember season one when nurse Chapel was a charismatic, vivacious, joyful, fun-loving, joking flirt? Now she hasn't smiled once all season and her Vulcan boyfriend is more expressive. Anyone think we may have lost something in our drive to be all edgy and angsty all the time?
I hope you do rewatch it and consider some of the comments that I've been reading on your review. Several of us really took things very differently than the way you viewed some of the action. One thing I do agree with you on and that's the overuse of Babs martial arts use. In season 1 the showrunners overdid the impending death of Pike way too many times. Now in season 2 it's the same with the martial arts for the Doctor.
Actually, killing your own men would be very Klingon. From the TOS and movie Era to TNG and onward, Klingons killing their own would have been far more a better story to tell other Klingons than some 'weak' Federation officer killing the men, while said Klingon ran. As for Pike, he did give each and every one of his officers an out, in fact his coming for the deadly Deltan spice was just a pretext to talk and offer a pass, although he was obliged to relay he had orders. Orders that appear Rah had wanted and deliberately came to the Enterprise to meet veterans and it seemed M'Benga specifically (without him knowing the doctor was the man he ran from). Since even in TOS era, they mentioned Synthesizers, I'm inclined to give their Replicator like Synthesizer a pass, but it did look a little too early for that effect. It is true we never saw how TOS era Synthesizers work, so they could have been quite Replicator like, and the technology is like the transporters, still it gave me pause to see it. Thank you for another review and yes, I agree, light episode last week, heavy this week, light next, all suggest a heavy episode for the season finale.
While I was watching the ending of the episode, my reaction was the same as yours. I was pissed at Pike for pushing crew members with PTSD to confront a source of their trauma with no thought of guard trails. I would never ask my subordinates to do that.
I love this series, I hope it goes on for years. I'd just like more actual 'Strange New Worlds', stories down on new planets, meeting new civilisations and going where no one has gone before rather than stories mainly on the bridge, in quarters and the sick bay. But I do love the characters!! I'd rather see ship bound episodes forever than lose this show.
Well as a Kilgon it's better to say, "they were killing in an honor less way so I fought them" then "I ordered the murder of defenseless honor less killings then ran away." And it works better for the federation to say, "I saw the evils of war and stood to fight against it." Then "I was completely evil, ran away and now need protection."
Pike did offer them the chance to skip everything. They decided to come, out of loyalty to him. In addition, sometimes the person who is ill, is the last one to admit it. How many people think they can handle alcohol and end up in a fatal accident. Some people have a forgiving nature, and as the Doctor explained to Pike in the end. You are not me. It is impossible for a man to understand what it is like for a woman to carry a child for 9 months. As it is impossible for another human to understand the full impact military combat can take on a individual. I can understand Pike asking them, thinking it would help them grow. What he did not understand was that did not want to. "But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven" Matthew 5:43-45. Not everybody has read it, and even less believe in it. It takes a special person. The character of Pike might be that special.
Didn't anticipate liking this episode much from the trailer but boy was I wrong!! Instantly became one of my favourites from both series and somehow I don't think this story is over yet, I reckon the ambiguity over the ambassador's death and M'Benga's guilt over being the doctor dragged back to being the warrior (in present day, not the wartime setting) will eat away at him over the next series, dragging in Chappel and Ortega on one side and Pike and Una on the other with Spock's divided loyalties forcing him to walk a very fine line between them. They have the kernel of a really great storyline there if they don't blow it.
I'm enjoying the season and this episode, although I am seeing an increasing discontinuity with the TOS era. Rachtagino (spelling?) was first introduced in DS9. There was no reference in the TOS era. In fact, the DS9 time travel episode (Trials And Tribbleations) has a comical scene where Darvin has been asking for the beverage on Station K7 (which they've never heard of). The replicators (as you've said were not seen in TOS). Oh well, I still enjoyed the episode on the whole.
Pike might have learned something more as a temporary fleet captain. That Klingon and Federal are going to be allies in a war against the Gorn. So maybe he's training to acclimated to the Klingons.
Well, according to our law, Mbenga brought the knife with him deliberately it never would’ve happened. Had he not brought with him, so if it isn’t murder, regardless of whether or not, he started it, it would still be manslaughter because of the intent.
this. he killed him on cold blood when rah despite lting had kept the peace facade and was trying t make up for by almost begging a rude mbenga to support him in peace
Mbenga was in his sickbay with his stuff, he didn’t bring the weapon anywhere Rah came to him. Also federation officers regularly walk around armed, if you are attacked you can use a weapon in defense. It’s not nearly so simple.
Okay maybe it was murder but all the war veterans were glad he was dead and there had been no justice for all the people the Klingon killed. And there wasn't going to be. M'Benga was okay with that and the episode backed him up
@@seth8629 yes this is the point, it is like Sisko and Garak conspiring in the murder of the Romulan officer to pin it on the dominion, it was a ‘bad’ thing to do for reasons that were understandable, and the characters (mainly Sisko, as Garak isn’t bothered by murder) had to face what they did and be willing to live with it. I think DS9 did it better, the stakes were higher and Sisko was setup more for the morally grey role, but this was fine.
Could it be that once M'Benga admitted to being the Butcher of J'Gal, he felt he had to kill Rah to make sure his secret stayed secret? COOL!!! if so. Still, the episode did seem a bit contrived, and it tried to create revelatory drama when it wasn't really necessary to move the plot along. However, it is good that Star Trek is trying to develop more complex human characters with questionable morals that a thinking audience can relate to. I think it shows the influence of other SciFi series in this regard, such as The Expanse and Star Wars Andor.
@@OldManYellsAtClouds Yeah, I guess I really don't understand Klingons, or what it was about Klingon psychology that Rah was specifically rebelling against when he joined the Federation. When I think of a "Butcher of ...." character, I think of someone who killed a lot of people, typically civilians, on the opposing side of a conflict, not people on the person's own side. A good example would be "The Butcher of Anderson Station" in The Expanse (Fred Johnson). I would imagine that Rah claiming the killings of the Klingons might endear him more to the Federation, or that M'Benga admitting that he actually killed the Klingons would make him a hero in the eyes of the Federation, or at least help him resolve his PTSD situation via revenge therapy. Perhaps both of these situations would be abhorrent to the Utopian Federation mindset in the future (i.e., "It's Not What We Are")? I guess I'll just watch this episode again, maybe after I watch the latest Foundation Season 2 episode where the characters are morally bankrupt in a way I can relate to a bit more. Thanks...
💯 it is not a super soldier serum at all, it should not be referenced as such, Mbenga explained it thoroughly, a mixture of Adrenaline shot and painkillers ( pain inhibitors as Mbenga called it) just Synthesized 23 century style. So like, say you give say a NFL PLAYER MORPHINE AND ADRENALINE and send him back out on the field he going to feel nothing and be hype up for a moment. But it is not going to improve his performance as such, he has not been enhanced. Just feels nothing, while he is still tearing up his body…hence the reason it should not be used.
If you like me have hade PTSD, this is a Great episode...the pain is real. I used to destroy my hand on glass, the Doctor dies the same walking to his back office IF you watch carefully.
There were matter replicators of one form or another before TOS as that is how earth became a post-scarcity society and was able to solve all issues with hunger and disease and poverty and then move out into the stars. They did show the crew using pre-programmed chips for ease of use to “order” food from the replicators but, this episode showing Spock trying to program for a raktajino is not inaccurate as he does not have the preprogrammed chip for it and is programming the device to make it per his specifications.
Pike would surely have a semblance of post trauma after the first experience on Rigel VII. What about being put in a cage with Veena? They tortured him... burned him in a hell. Seeing your own demise messed him up too. I do NOT believe that Christopher Pike, as written, would not understand PTSD; would not protect his crew. That's against character. I think that during the filming of Season 2, Anson Mount's availability was lower than normal, what with the birth of his child and the issues with the pandemic. I think we will see much more of him in Season 3. This was a solid episode other than the character problems with Pike, ... very classic TOS Trek, warning against war as it always did.
It felt like this episode is a re-imagining of The Undiscovered Country, I hoped this story arc will be visit again next season, because I suspected that the Ambassador committed suicide, while M'Benga trying to stopped him.
no lol. mbenga. he killed him on cold blood for killing children when rah despite lting had kept the peace facade and was trying t make up for by almost begging a rude mbenga to support him in peace
Every episode this year has been these writers mining old ideas from trek's past, not understanding why they worked in the past, and just slapping their characters into the same situation, but with zero nuance.
@@billkeithchannel I'm sorry you feel that way. Not sure who those guys are. I really wish the show runners knew how to make shows everyone could love like they used to back in the day.
The motivation set him up for a career as a ambassador. He had no choice. A Klingon would ask him, how is it he survived and did not die in battle. If the Klingon killed his own men, that would endear him to star fleet and he would be accepted as a ambassador with the conviction to do what star fleet thinks is right.
I didn't get an sense that, in his narrative, he had no choice. He did it because his men were massacring civilians, so he did the "honorable" thing by taking them out, a story that would endear him to both the Federation as well as honorable Klingons.
@@raze3297 He is not talking about the narrative he tells as an ambassador. The narrative is made to make himself look good. In what actually happened the only choice he had was taking credit for killing his subordinates and claiming he did it because they were killing civilians. You do realise he ran away and his subordinates stayed back to defend him right?
Maybe I misunderstood, but I believe they are not necessarily stronger than an above average human, but they have a much higher pain tolerance, are more durable, and harder to injure than a human.
Also, using stimulants with fighting forces has been a commonly utilized from at least WWII to the 2 Iraq wars. Not weird that Starfleet would resort to that in a war against a stronger, physically at least, foe.
@@Bum_Hip as far as I'm aware the Klingons are physically strongest species( they have like double most organs)in the alpha/beta quadrants possibly only matched by Vulcans/Romulans. Something like twice as strong as your average human. But as we see in DS9 skill and speed can overcome a Klingon in combat.
@@seth8629 dumb, like you mean it has been utilized for millenia in our real world, sometimes to great success..such as Vikings and Mongols...and oh yeah, Germany, Great Britain and, yes, the United Staes right up to current times? The medications he stated as using don't increase physical strength, and that is not shown in any footage in SNW, it merely increases reactivity, boldness and willingness to use strength already capable by a body. That is factual science and therefore not at all a dumb plot devise.
TOS used food synthesizers and this is in all of the TOS manuals and books created in the 70s. From Memory Alpha: "Beta 5 computer utilized replicator technology to manufacture several false identity cards for use by Gary Seven. (TOS: "Assignment: Earth") Starships of this time period were equipped with food synthesizers and other devices for producing clothing and machine parts on demand. This was a step forward, but did not achieve the quality and sophistication of the 24th century replicator. Replicator technology was not yet employed on starships as late as 2293."
The Klingon ambassador claiming responsibility for the death of his men has for purpose of saving the face of the Klingon empire for having lost so many to a medical human officer. This seems to borrow from Samurai lore.
Rah's use of the Butcher mantle was to keep himself alive. If it was found that it was a human that in fact killed all those klingons and that he had ran like a coward, he would be executed for cowardice and his house would be dishonoured. But I felt that his conscience made him decide that he has to use that title to redeem himself. It's like if he's given a second chance at life and so he decides to use that by doing missionary work. At the end of the day for me though, he was a charlatan and a con.
The reason your confused about the Klingons being ok with killing his own men is because it seems you may have missed the part where it was explained that he had defected from empire. They did view it as cowardly, which his actions were. Which is why he was now working with the Federation. So he was speaking on the Federations behalf as an example of a reformed man, and he was getting a lot of benefits from the Federation because of it. It really is a cowardly thing to do. Plus there was no repercussions for his actions and no justice for the victims. Also, Pike did say to them both that they were not required to attend the meal. They could have sd no. This episode reminded me of the Voyager episode "Jetrel" where Neelix came face to face with the man that developed the weapon that destroyed his home, and killed his family, along with millions of others. Arguably one of Voyagers best episodes.
Absolutely a great episode in my opinion. The flasback scenes reminded me of the old Mash tv show with the incoming transports instead of the incoming helicopters. In the last flasback M'Benga went out to get the responsible. But he didn't found him. So my guess is that he finally fulfilled that mission behind the glass and we will see in a future episode that for this action he will held responsible and will have to leave Enterprise. So good plot to invent McCoy as his successor.
I love that many people are seeing the M*A*S*H parallels. The soldier that was injured but yet when healed was eager to go back to the front line was also a M*A*S*H callback. Even the actor looked similar. The Endorian Officer reminds me of Jake Busey from _Starship Troopers._
Go back and watch the scene in the original series episode called tomorrow is yesterday where the transporter chief makes Chicken soup for the astronaut and you'll see that replicators extend back quite a bit further.
Having a Doctor who's not just an exceptional Doctor, but can also go full Shaka Zulu with a drop of the old compound 18 is way cool. No messing around, no "I'm a Doctor, not an assassin" nonsense. M'benga is like if Julian Bashir really was Ras al' Ghul too. McCoy was just a comedic device for Spock's straight man. In fact, I couldn't care less if we never see him again. M'benga is the Doctor we deserve.
Disagree. He was justified. Due process is just something we invented. It’s not like it’s natural law. And it’s easy to judge from the cheap seats. This man went through some heavy sh**.
perhaps from what I have heard what it could have been better as the Klingon ambassador could have said was those Klingons were wounded and gave all of his men a warrior death.
Nobody was forced, Pike would of clearly let them off the hook. The part I liked the most though was the ending, foreshadowing that M'Benga is going to break again and that there is a heavy price to pay for use of the super soldier serum. On the whole the episode felt a little clunky or maybe "forced". Clearly there is a great deal of PTSD lingering in the ranks of Star Fleet and its sad to see that Star Fleet has done a terrible job helping their own. I wanted to like the Klingon Ambassador but it was disjointed, Klingon's don't usually adapt well to other societies but he went from Warmonger to Peacenik very quickly. It would of been better if he had been a Cleric who defected who at the end offers himself to M'Benga as an honorable sacrifice for Klingon misdeeds and M'Benga kills him and you clearly see its out of revenge. When you remove the "had it coming to him" aspect of the story it highlights the Ambassador truly being honorable and M'Benga's lingering and deep damage.
When watching any episode of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds I am constantly reminded how good this show is; and that’s notwithstanding comparing it to Star Trek: Discovery. Indeed the disparity between the two series is so stark it’s as though one is set in a parallel universe to the other.👾
M'Benga must be playing WOW BECAUSE HE ACT MORE LIKE A FREAKING WOW ROGUE , HE BUILD ON ALL 3 SPEC , assassination ,OUTLAW AND subtlety, BEST PVP FIGHTER IN STRANGE NEW WORLD !
I haven't seen the movie. Just looked it up on Wikipedia. Is this yet another case of Trek lifting a story from elsewhere without proper attribution? The NuTrek writers do that a lot. I'm a teacher. The writers may have been expelled by now for that.
@@billkerns9258 I'll ignore such an aggressively stupid and meritless remark about writing and just note that China Beach was a TV show based on a book about a nurse in Da Nang during the Vietnam War. It was one of Robert Picardo's pre-Voyager TV roles, and I think it was his second longest TV run (and as a doctor no less).
@@bjorn00000 I admitted to not knowing China Beach, and was asking a question. No aggression was intended toward you. And I have zero interest in trading insults or fighting.
@@billkerns9258 The only case where current Trek has lifted a bit too much has been with "Lift Us Where Suffering Cannot Reach" with concepts from the Le Guin short story. Even in that case, the concept is not new but the story is an original work. Saying that "NuTrek writers do that a lot" is a downright offensive take.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
He took credit so he could go to the Federation to seek asylum. “Look what I did” “ I helped you” “I’m a good guy”
I actually thought this was one of the stronger episodes this season, and thought it had a great sense of tension throughout. And it was just nice to see these normally happy-go-lucky characters acting like real, complex human beings struggling with trauma. And it really makes me wish we could get MORE episodes like this instead of the lightweight fluff we usually get.
Yeah, this was a good one. He is talking crazy.
We ARE getting entirely too much fluff and gimmicks. I honestly thought we were going to get more serious science-fiction. So far I only enjoyed 'Ad Astra per Aspera' and this episode.
@@PaulChristianJenkinsJD I actually think they do the lighter comedic episodes really well, I just wish there was a lot more of the heavier, dramatic stuff, that doesn't involve them making wisecracks every 5 minutes.
@@davidjames1389 It seems like this season they are content with whimsical stories, Spock and Nurse Chapel, and the upcoming musical episode. Their overconfidence shows.
Agreed!
"Slightly darker" is definitely an understatement, but holy crap this was excellent. What was fascinating was that it was written specifically to highlight how those that don't know PTSD sometimes can't wrap their heads around how it actually works.
With respect to Rah "killing his men", I think the rationale is that he took credit for it so Starfleet believed that he was sincere in defecting, and if he ran back to the Klingons while all of his other officers were killed by the Federation he would have been dishonored and killed.
Absolutely. Klingons are not supposed to run away but instead die in battle as that is supposed to be glorious. Running away even as survival could be seen as cowardice especially a general.
@@eddiek8179 It is complex, as General Martok was captured by the Dominion and that is often seen as a great shame, yet he managed to regain his position in the Empire and retain his house. On the other hand, Klag's father from "A Matter of Honor" in s2 of TNG had a similar story as he was captured by the Romulans, but he was left to die in dishonor after escaping instead. My sense has always been that powerful Klingons in leadership roles are much, much more about stark pragmatism, realism, and self-preservation, and that circumstances would have to be pretty dire for Rah to defect.
Exactly…he was a coward and he knew the Klingon Empire would be after him so he wanted The Federation to trust him
@@Justjakelive Yes - but there are probably Klingon generals in similar situations that manage to get away scot free while leaving their subordinates to "die honorably".
It was true Star Trek, unlike this teeny-bopper melodrama we have seen lately.
Before replicators, TOS used synthesizers which required the user to enter a pre-programmed card.
Also, Romulan ale being available and traded having never seen the Romulans?
I really feel this was a much deeper episode than you give it credit, first was the hint that M’Benga was actually a soldier before he became a doctor and he had developed the serum and used it before he became a doctor. As for the Klingon of course he would claimed he killed everyone rather than state he was the coward he truly was. The camp really did bring back vibes of MASH and of course seeing Clint Howard was also great. Robert Wisdom who played the ambassador was also very good.
I so agree
Nick, Pike did not force M'Benga or Chappell or anyone else to attend the dinner. He gave them the option and they said they would. They could have declined the invitation without any blowback. As for the serum, MBenga himself said that it was something that was never to be used frivolously and certainly not as a convenient 'get out of jail free card', as its side effects are so severe. I'd say the two situations that we have seen it used in, so far, certainly warrant it. I loved this episode. It brought up and dealt with some difficult issues and for me, was classic Trek.
Exactly right. He didn't force anything.
what are the side effects?
Pike also mentioned how a protest made it a point for the Federation to ask veterans to be in contact with Rah if they can.
@@Rick-kf3tc That’s not the kind of relationship they have.
Also not only did Pike give them the option, he didn't stop Ortegas and Chappel from leaving, he also told M'Benga to leave as well
In the DS9 episode Trials and Tribblations (I think I spelled that right) when the Defiant crew travel back to the Trouble with Tribbles episode of the original series, Odo asks for a raktajino while on the K7 space station, although the waitress had never heard of it, she later mentions that the Klingons on shore leave had also ordered it.
Man, this season is rushing to an end! 😫 I wish we could have at least 13 episodes! 😔
Totally, with SNW having an actual TV show format, more than 10 episodes would be nice haha
I think one reason you're struggling to see how being known as the Butcher who killed his own men helped the ambassador is because he wasn't there as a Klingon diplomat. He was there as the Federation representative to negotiate with the Klingons. When he defected he gained credibility because he convinced the Federation he killed them out of loss of honor and guilt and they could trust his conversion to peace
The dynamic between M'Benga and Rah strongly reminded me of Major Kira and Gul Dukat. The use of Discovery footage of the Klingon War was a nice touch, as was T'Kuvma's epithet. Always happy to see Clint Howard put in a Trek appearance! Also, I kept hearing the theme from M*A*S*H playing in my head when injured patients were being beamed in.
Nah, nothing like Kira and Dukat. Kira is the brave little mouse, and Dukat? He da Cat. With those two its all suppressed sexual tension and point scoring. Kira was a diversity pick by Starfleet to keep the Bajorans sweet. M'benga was Starfleet.
@@nodiggity9472 I was referring to the post-war PTSD confrontation mentality, not political correctness.
@@pangaeawriter8766 Well, I can see that might be the case with Kira, but her relationship with Dukat was far more complex. Full of sexual tension and inner conflict. Like Batman and Joker. Kinda.
I guess we all died a little in that damned war.
I too had flashbacks of MASH with the med scenes
@@Rockmanxpr The soldier that was injured but yet when healed was eager to go back to the front line was also a M*A*S*H callback. Even the actor looked similar.
Being incredibly ruthless is better than cowardly for a Klingon
The guy was not a Klingon ambassador, but a Klingon defector working as a Federation ambassador.
Pike didn't force them to attend the dinner. Attendance was technically optional.
You could argue that the request to attend was unwise.
I liked this one. Clint Howard is always fun to watch, but this may have been his best acting performance ever. I think this episode might win an award for high drama. Well done.
I too liked seeing Clint Howard in a part that made good use of his talents.
He was great….what a life in “Trek”.
2:38. The sound effect connects this with TOS episodes where people took food from compartments that could be programmed to provide anything - with a puff of vapor. I remember Chapel giving ice cream to some children there.
It was my impression that he claimed to have killed his own men in order to bolster his odds of being granted asylum by the Federation.
The idea that the crimes being committed on J'Gal were so heinous that even a Klingon general couldn't accept it, and killed his own men to put an end to it, would have carried a lot of weight to his plea for clemency.
The fact that the death of the ambassador wound up being basically a “no big deal” Samberly odd to me. Much worse public relations are a few people not attending a dinner.
This is a huge hole within the show that also featured in the original series. Supposedly this an earlier time in space exploration and captains have a lot more leeway. But they blew up a mining station that probably cost a trillion space dollars and just turned an important diplomat into stabbed to death and no one at the Federation ever says wtf.
Not sure why you have an issue with the dinner. Senior Officers frequently have to be involved in diplomatic efforts. If Rah goes to his next Federation meeting at headquarters and tells them that he felt unwelcomed on Enterprise then that is a major hit on both Pike and his senior staff.
It has happened after every war. Both in Germany and Japan after WW2 (for example).
The problem was the hot shot pilots throwing a temper tantums because the klingon ambassador is on the ship. Pike should have cut her off and dismissed her to her cabin until she grows up act like an star fleet officer
The Vietnamese Officers got to confront McNamara about his ridiculous Domino Theory showing his total lack of historic knowledge of Vietnam's struggle to stay off the Chinese from being conquered.
I loved it. To my this was the best episode of any television show ever. Firefly did great things in its tributes to those who have suffered the choices war presents, this was amazing.
I actually came away from this episode with a little bit of PTSD myself. I felt rather shocked and sad for M'Bega and all those who fought in that war. I could feel it from their perspective. In that respect, I think the acting from phenomenal and the story very pointing and extremely well done. Do I want to watch it again? Not for a while. This will be the first SNW episode I haven't watched twice right after release.
And Scotty learned the Transporter Buffer saving technique from M'benga that saved himself to appear 70 years later on TNG.
I don’t like that Mbenga gets credit for this technique as originally it was supposed to be a genius engineering trick that made it work at all and nobody up to Geordi’s time 75 years later had even considered it before finding Scotty.
The end left me with an odd feeling I last had at the near end of ST TNG:The most toys. When Data was about to kill Fajo but got transported away, claiming something happened during transport.
Data fired, didn't he?
@@balung O'brien said the weapon was fired...
@@balungyes
Where did they say or show M'benga picking up the knife or stabbing him? Dak'Rah's fingerprints were on the knife, along with M'benga's. I liked the way they left that unanswered. You could read M'benga's "I didn't start it" line as implying he finished it, but he didn't say that he did.
M'benga's "I didn't start it" could easily be construed as it was started by Rah during the war.
Yes it is vague because there is no answer. Should this dude be allowed to help the Federation? Maybe. Should we care if M'Benga shivved him? Maybe. No right or wrong answer.
I think the point is valid about Pike asking his crew. He definitely asked gently. But I fell like he asked because of perspective. You have to confront things to heal from them, I think he had the best interests of his officers in mind even if it was uncomfortable. And there's no way he could have known their exact roles.
I’m uncomfortable with a medical officer killing others.
What was with a Klingon “Crying”?
Hence the expression: "Nobody returns from war unwounded".
You so wrong this is top for the series so far…
Didn't *anyone* notice that the guy was not a Klingon ambassador, but a Klingon *defector* working as a Federation ambassador? He was not Hitler's ambassador to the Jewish, but a former Nazi officer working as an UN ambassador after the war. Former Allied officers would distrust him, but having dinner with him was not a strenuous imposition, just everyday protocol. Pike was being extremely considerate, not ruthless.
Homework: rewatch the episode and pay attention next time.
I did...
@@MariaMartinez-researcher Thanks! I was starting to think I was in a parallel universe!
Did Ortegas just cross-reference Running Man with her "Butcher of Bakersfield " comment, or have i missed something?
12:23. Ambassador Dak'Rah *was not* a Klingon ambassador to the Federation. Was a Klingon *defector* who was working as a *Federation ambassador.* The Butcher of J'gal was how the Klingon called him after his defection, as he told the Federation he had killed his own men to escape. That's why the Federation believed he had truly changed sides. He killing his men meant he had totally cut ties with his people and he loathed what had happened in the battle - and massacre - which he had ordered.
(It appears you need to rewatch the episode. The guy being a Federation ambassador and not a Klingon ambassador fixes the logic.)
He took credit and said he killed his own men in order to defect to the federation (look I’m on your side I hated this so much I fought my own side to stop it), he never had to face the Klingon dishonor, though running away would have been worse dishonor for the Klingons than killing your own crew for failing so there is that.
Finally, someone is voicing the concerns I have about this show. Starfleet is a weak and anaemic organization and Captain Pike makes horrible decisions. I did relate to this show because I lost my husband about 7 years ago and I can related to grief. It's there and it never leaves you. Just like the horrors of war. I hope this episode helps others who suffer from the pain of grief and PTSD.
They had a choice not to go to the dinner.
I think you kind of miss the point on this one. Those officers of Pike's who have post-traumatic syndrome had not ever revealed this to Pike. Pike did not serve in the Klingon war along with most of his crew. So him not being fully aware of the severity of this condition in some of his officers is perfectly understandable since they never revealed it to him. Now as far as him urging his officers to attend this dinner affair with his senior officers, of course he would want his senior officers to show this Klingon, who is being lauded as a great peacemaker, the full courtesy of the flagship. I think this episode was brilliant in showing the dichotomy between those who served in the Klingon conflict, as opposed to those who didn't, such as Pike. I think it was perfectly natural under the conditions, and understanding that Pike had, he would feel his ship was representing the whole federation, and therefore wanted to put the federation's best foot forward to this perceived dignitary, and perceived revolutionary Klingon. I think the breakdown was with every one of those officers who felt that they could not honor this person because every one of them, when approached by the captain, had the ability to really express what they were going through, and how any one of them really felt, but instead they capitulated to the captain's wishes without him being aware until they displayed their true feelings at the dinner. I don't find any fault with Captain Pike because he just did not know the extent of what was going on, and neither one of these officers really explained it to him, they displayed it to him at the dinner table. It is understandable that people who serve in very traumatic conflicts never like to speak of it because they are not fully recovered from it, but also it is hard for those who did not serve in these conflicts to understand the severity of what these people are going through. I think this episode exposed both sides of it brilliantly.
A captain would have read the personnel files of his senior staff and known their psychological profiles. This is still the military. There is no excuse for him to be so uninformed and weak in this episode. The writers just wanted to drive home the point that Pike doesn’t understand the horrors of war. And they brought him down to do it rather than raising the other characters up. It’s weak writing.
The guy was not a Klingon ambassador, but a Klingon defector working as a Federation ambassador. The senior officers dining with a Federation ambassador is nothing extraordinary. Except that this Federation ambassador is quite extraordinary.
I agree with @williambriant. People with PTSD don’t go around telling everyone every time they have symptoms. How do we know it would be in their file? Lots of people suffer in silence.
And people who have never had it can’t possibly imagine what it’s like, much less mind read those around them.
Well he said it best to pike. Pike had the privilege of being able to believe in 2nd chances for other people because he wasn’t there, M’benga had otherwise this was such a great episode that really gives you a clear image of what war can do to a person and how much it destroys someone.
Regarding replicators in Star Trek, they introduced this pretty early in the TOS era, for an example in the Season 1 episode 19 "Tomorrow is Yesterday", where they go back in time to the 1960's and capture a fighter pilot, there was that scene where an airbase guard is beamed up to the Enterprise, and while he's waiting he requests chicken soup, and the transporter chief replicates it for him in the transporter room's replicator. I'm sure there were even earlier references to it, but that's the first one I remembered.
They were simply Food Replicators in TOS if my fuzzy memory is correct they were food Synthesisers.
@@trevorwhite915 Food replicators are what we're talking about here. When those replicators worked they not only made the food, but also the tray, the dishes, the cutlery, etc. The only difference was that all of the magic happened behind a door that opened up when it was complete. Now they just use the same effects as the transporters to show the replication out in the open.
They were using food replicators back in the TOS. Season 1 Episode 20 "Tomorrow is Yesterday"; A 20th century U.S. Airmen taken back to the Enterprise asks the transporter engineer for chicken soup. The engineer then uses a food replicator to oblige the airmen's request.
I think I agree with you about Pike insisting that Ortega, Chapel and M’Benga attend the dinner. Knowing Pike’s character I don’t think he would force them either. They clearly had the symptoms of PTSD from their experiences as evidenced by the graphic nature of the war scenes. I just don’t think Pike would do that, he’s too sensitive and empathetic to the emotional states of his senior staff.
Pike is a refreshingly gentle portrayal of masculine authority.
He didn't force them, he told them they didn't have to go.
He also didn't force Ortegas and Chappel to stay at the table and he told M'Benga to leave as well
@@Icybubba Yes, my use of the word ‘insisting’ was inaccurate. However, I feel that there was intolerable pressure on Ortega, Chapel, and Dr. M’Benga in particular to attend the dinner. Firstly, it was from their duty to the Federation and its all encompassing influence over their lives, and secondly, their respect for and loyalty to their captain and their deep need not to disappoint or let him down. It’s testament to the excellent writing and the performances that M’Benga’s and Chapel’s pain in particular was so evident.
Respectfully, I have to disagree with you. I see this episode a bit differently than you. Feels like you're a bit dismissive just because of a couple of character twists and turns.
For me, the gritty storyline totally reeled me in. It took us deep into the world of PTSD, while also showing us a different perspective of the Klingon War. Made me think, and that's what good TV does, right?
And how about the realism they brought to a Starfleet battlefield? Dealing with wounded soldiers, running low on supplies, making tough calls on who gets treated first, it was like getting a behind the scenes look at what the Federation is like when things get real. Made me wonder how their lofty ideals hold up in the face of something like battlefield triage. Plus, it was cool to get a glimpse of what boots on the ground fighting might look like in the Star Trek universe. I've known many Vets in my life including my own father and grandfather and numerous friends with real combat experience. This episode wasn't far off from stories I've heard. Especially their position getting bombarded constantly, my father said it was the same in 'Nam, their position was constantly getting shelled, or subject to night raids or sniper attacks. Can you imagine the stress that puts on a person in that situation.
If I had a star on my show that had a martial arts background I would absolutely make that part of his character. Now we know M'benga was a ghost like assassin badass that even the Klingons feared, how is that not awesome character development, especially knowing that Chapel was there the whole time and witnessed it, and there is a shared dynamic and bond between them born from battlefield trauma. How many times did we witness Worf teaching martial arts classes or practicing with his Bat'leth in TNG... I never once thought "oh we get it, hes a Klingon ninja, please stop showing us how cool Worf is"... Just my 2¢, but I'd say this episode's probably my favorite of the season. Not to take anything away from a broadway musical themed episode or whatever next weeks episode is supposed to be about, but off hand that sounds a little more like hoaky filler to me than episode 8 could ever be.
I could feel M'Benga's pain when he purged the transporter buffer. He knew it was something that HAD to be done, no doubt about it. It also freed Christine from potentially "murdering" Alvarado.
He murdered a man in peace time that held a position that could stop more war. We are all just niave young men that sign up to serve. But the first time you see action and lock eyes with your enemy. You realize that the guy on the other side is also someones young niave son. War is not just seeing the horror of your men dieing around you but also seeing your enemy who is just taking orders like you die. Seeing death on a large scale changes you. Not all guys are built for it. A lot of guys crack and my heart goes out to them. But killing in peace time is wrong. This is not the star trek way.
Wouldn't they have treatment for PTSD in the future?
The inconsistency was not that Captain Pike asked his officers to join the dinner, but that the Federation policy was to 1) allow folks with serious and ongoing PTSD to go back into active service, and 2) encourage those traumatized by the war to make nice with an infamous Klingon general.
Absolutely brilliant. The crew are people, people we can really identify with. For all the ideals of the Federation, prejudices are still rife and hurt is still hurt. Pike didn't recognise the PTSD as it presented , as highlighted by Ortegas, as a distaste for Klingons because of their behaviour and reputation.Klingons believe in honour so killing men who killed civilians as it would dishonour them seems to have been the Ambassador's action for claiming the work of M'Benga.
So when he asks which was the hardest to kill and you see the fight was that him telling the lie because it looked like he was remembering it .
hey nick..the reason he claimed he killed his soldiers was to look good to the federation, therby becoming ambassador... hope you are well.. peace..rocky
The predecessor of the replicator was used in the TOS era. They were called food processors. They were a little more limited in what they could produce. If you'll recall, "The Trouble with Tribbles," Scotty was complaining because the tribbles made their way into them.
You're right - that shows that even in the future, PTSD is still not really taken seriously. It is a completely flawed decision by Pike and also by Starfleet Command to put his officers in such a situation. However, I agree, this is a mistake by the writers, the character of Pike would never have done such a thing.
Agreed. It’s one thing to not fully understand PTSD but it’s another to be a completely incompetent captain who is unfamiliar with his senior officers’ history and psych profiles and then sits back while chaos ensues.
What of Kirk in "In Undiscovered Countru"? He Never forgave the kKlingons for the death of his son. Yet had to be at a formal dinner with them.
Didn't you realize the guy was not a Klingon ambassador, but a Klingon defector working as a Federation ambassador? The senior officers dining with a Federation ambassador is nothing extraordinary. Of course, the guy was not ordinary Federation ambassador.
If only we had seen them do the PTSD thing in Star Trek before!! Oh, wait... they've done the PTSD thing in just about every live action star trek series there has ever been!!! (And did it beter each time.)
Pike under orders, command always wants to fix things. Klingons are our friends now! Me in Iraq, the Iraqis are on our side, even thou every IED used in our battle space was with in 400 meters of a check point manned by IA or IP (Iraq army or police) now do you understand! Command can be blinded by what it wants to happen!
You grew up on TNG. Watch TOS and learn. DS9 was written by real adults for real adults. The stuff you gush over is silly.
The ambassador ran away and he claimed to be the Butcher of J'gal because it enhanced his rep with the Federation.
M'Benga is badass! I hope they keep him around. Killer and healer in one package!
Ratageno from TOS "Trouble with Tribbles?" Revisited in DS9
Anyone remember season one when Dr. M'Bengawas a warm, empathic person who always had a clever joke and good advice? Now he's a drug-abusing, knife-murdering serial killer with PTSD. Anyone remember season one when nurse Chapel was a charismatic, vivacious, joyful, fun-loving, joking flirt? Now she hasn't smiled once all season and her Vulcan boyfriend is more expressive. Anyone think we may have lost something in our drive to be all edgy and angsty all the time?
I hope you do rewatch it and consider some of the comments that I've been reading on your review.
Several of us really took things very differently than the way you viewed some of the action.
One thing I do agree with you on and that's the overuse of Babs martial arts use. In season 1 the showrunners overdid the impending death of Pike way too many times. Now in season 2 it's the same with the martial arts for the Doctor.
Actually, killing your own men would be very Klingon. From the TOS and movie Era to TNG and onward, Klingons killing their own would have been far more a better story to tell other Klingons than some 'weak' Federation officer killing the men, while said Klingon ran. As for Pike, he did give each and every one of his officers an out, in fact his coming for the deadly Deltan spice was just a pretext to talk and offer a pass, although he was obliged to relay he had orders. Orders that appear Rah had wanted and deliberately came to the Enterprise to meet veterans and it seemed M'Benga specifically (without him knowing the doctor was the man he ran from).
Since even in TOS era, they mentioned Synthesizers, I'm inclined to give their Replicator like Synthesizer a pass, but it did look a little too early for that effect. It is true we never saw how TOS era Synthesizers work, so they could have been quite Replicator like, and the technology is like the transporters, still it gave me pause to see it.
Thank you for another review and yes, I agree, light episode last week, heavy this week, light next, all suggest a heavy episode for the season finale.
The guy was not a Klingon ambassador, but a Klingon defector working as a Federation ambassador.
(I'm going to copy paste this everywhere)
This has been the best episode yet.
While I was watching the ending of the episode, my reaction was the same as yours. I was pissed at Pike for pushing crew members with PTSD to confront a source of their trauma with no thought of guard trails. I would never ask my subordinates to do that.
This episode felt like The Siege of AR-558 and Star Trek VI made a baby.
I love this series, I hope it goes on for years. I'd just like more actual 'Strange New Worlds', stories down on new planets, meeting new civilisations and going where no one has gone before rather than stories mainly on the bridge, in quarters and the sick bay. But I do love the characters!! I'd rather see ship bound episodes forever than lose this show.
Well as a Kilgon it's better to say, "they were killing in an honor less way so I fought them" then "I ordered the murder of defenseless honor less killings then ran away." And it works better for the federation to say, "I saw the evils of war and stood to fight against it." Then "I was completely evil, ran away and now need protection."
Pike did offer them the chance to skip everything. They decided to come, out of loyalty to him. In addition, sometimes the person who is ill, is the last one to admit it. How many people think they can handle alcohol and end up in a fatal accident. Some people have a forgiving nature, and as the Doctor explained to Pike in the end. You are not me. It is impossible for a man to understand what it is like for a woman to carry a child for 9 months. As it is impossible for another human to understand the full impact military combat can take on a individual. I can understand Pike asking them, thinking it would help them grow. What he did not understand was that did not want to.
"But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven" Matthew 5:43-45. Not everybody has read it, and even less believe in it. It takes a special person. The character of Pike might be that special.
If you don't follow that bible verse, however, you will not go to heaven. As it says in the verse.
@@JohnDoe-qh8mu Amen.
Didn't anticipate liking this episode much from the trailer but boy was I wrong!! Instantly became one of my favourites from both series and somehow I don't think this story is over yet, I reckon the ambiguity over the ambassador's death and M'Benga's guilt over being the doctor dragged back to being the warrior (in present day, not the wartime setting) will eat away at him over the next series, dragging in Chappel and Ortega on one side and Pike and Una on the other with Spock's divided loyalties forcing him to walk a very fine line between them. They have the kernel of a really great storyline there if they don't blow it.
I'm enjoying the season and this episode, although I am seeing an increasing discontinuity with the TOS era. Rachtagino (spelling?) was first introduced in DS9. There was no reference in the TOS era. In fact, the DS9 time travel episode (Trials And Tribbleations) has a comical scene where Darvin has been asking for the beverage on Station K7 (which they've never heard of). The replicators (as you've said were not seen in TOS). Oh well, I still enjoyed the episode on the whole.
Pike might have learned something more as a temporary fleet captain. That Klingon and Federal are going to be allies in a war against the Gorn. So maybe he's training to acclimated to the Klingons.
The guy was not a Klingon ambassador, but a Klingon defector working as a Federation ambassador.
Well, according to our law, Mbenga brought the knife with him deliberately it never would’ve happened. Had he not brought with him, so if it isn’t murder, regardless of whether or not, he started it, it would still be manslaughter because of the intent.
this. he killed him on cold blood when rah despite lting had kept the peace facade and was trying t make up for by almost begging a rude mbenga to support him in peace
Mbenga was in his sickbay with his stuff, he didn’t bring the weapon anywhere Rah came to him. Also federation officers regularly walk around armed, if you are attacked you can use a weapon in defense. It’s not nearly so simple.
Okay maybe it was murder but all the war veterans were glad he was dead and there had been no justice for all the people the Klingon killed. And there wasn't going to be. M'Benga was okay with that and the episode backed him up
@@seth8629 yes this is the point, it is like Sisko and Garak conspiring in the murder of the Romulan officer to pin it on the dominion, it was a ‘bad’ thing to do for reasons that were understandable, and the characters (mainly Sisko, as Garak isn’t bothered by murder) had to face what they did and be willing to live with it. I think DS9 did it better, the stakes were higher and Sisko was setup more for the morally grey role, but this was fine.
M'benga getting all hopped up on formula 18 and going full John Wick on a bunch of smelly Klingons pleased me immensely.
I approve of this message!!!
M’benga: “Yeah…”
Could it be that once M'Benga admitted to being the Butcher of J'Gal, he felt he had to kill Rah to make sure his secret stayed secret? COOL!!! if so. Still, the episode did seem a bit contrived, and it tried to create revelatory drama when it wasn't really necessary to move the plot along. However, it is good that Star Trek is trying to develop more complex human characters with questionable morals that a thinking audience can relate to. I think it shows the influence of other SciFi series in this regard, such as The Expanse and Star Wars Andor.
@@OldManYellsAtClouds Yeah, I guess I really don't understand Klingons, or what it was about Klingon psychology that Rah was specifically rebelling against when he joined the Federation. When I think of a "Butcher of ...." character, I think of someone who killed a lot of people, typically civilians, on the opposing side of a conflict, not people on the person's own side. A good example would be "The Butcher of Anderson Station" in The Expanse (Fred Johnson). I would imagine that Rah claiming the killings of the Klingons might endear him more to the Federation, or that M'Benga admitting that he actually killed the Klingons would make him a hero in the eyes of the Federation, or at least help him resolve his PTSD situation via revenge therapy. Perhaps both of these situations would be abhorrent to the Utopian Federation mindset in the future (i.e., "It's Not What We Are")? I guess I'll just watch this episode again, maybe after I watch the latest Foundation Season 2 episode where the characters are morally bankrupt in a way I can relate to a bit more. Thanks...
I enjoyed it and yes, the killing was retribution, not self defense. IMHO of course.
The super soldier serum is a parallel to the usage of amphetamines during the world wars for soldiers to keep fighting.
Or, it exists because it's in the future.
💯 it is not a super soldier serum at all, it should not be referenced as such, Mbenga explained it thoroughly, a mixture of Adrenaline shot and painkillers ( pain inhibitors as Mbenga called it) just Synthesized 23 century style. So like, say you give say a NFL PLAYER MORPHINE AND ADRENALINE and send him back out on the field he going to feel nothing and be hype up for a moment. But it is not going to improve his performance as such, he has not been enhanced. Just feels nothing, while he is still tearing up his body…hence the reason it should not be used.
If you like me have hade PTSD, this is a Great episode...the pain is real. I used to destroy my hand on glass, the Doctor dies the same walking to his back office IF you watch carefully.
There were matter replicators of one form or another before TOS as that is how earth became a post-scarcity society and was able to solve all issues with hunger and disease and poverty and then move out into the stars. They did show the crew using pre-programmed chips for ease of use to “order” food from the replicators but, this episode showing Spock trying to program for a raktajino is not inaccurate as he does not have the preprogrammed chip for it and is programming the device to make it per his specifications.
Pike would surely have a semblance of post trauma after the first experience on Rigel VII. What about being put in a cage with Veena? They tortured him... burned him in a hell. Seeing your own demise messed him up too. I do NOT believe that Christopher Pike, as written, would not understand PTSD; would not protect his crew. That's against character. I think that during the filming of Season 2, Anson Mount's availability was lower than normal, what with the birth of his child and the issues with the pandemic. I think we will see much more of him in Season 3. This was a solid episode other than the character problems with Pike, ... very classic TOS Trek, warning against war as it always did.
Great review. Loved it. Great episode as well. They were always getting food out of the holes in the wall on TOS.
They had food replicators in TOS
It felt like this episode is a re-imagining of The Undiscovered Country, I hoped this story arc will be visit again next season, because I suspected that the Ambassador committed suicide, while M'Benga trying to stopped him.
no lol. mbenga. he killed him on cold blood for killing children when rah despite lting had kept the peace facade and was trying t make up for by almost begging a rude mbenga to support him in peace
Every episode this year has been these writers mining old ideas from trek's past, not understanding why they worked in the past, and just slapping their characters into the same situation, but with zero nuance.
@@maskddingo1779 I disagree with your assessment. Your comment is indicative of why I have been boycotting The Pocast Guys this season.
@@billkeithchannel I'm sorry you feel that way. Not sure who those guys are. I really wish the show runners knew how to make shows everyone could love like they used to back in the day.
The motivation set him up for a career as a ambassador. He had no choice. A Klingon would ask him, how is it he survived and did not die in battle. If the Klingon killed his own men, that would endear him to star fleet and he would be accepted as a ambassador with the conviction to do what star fleet thinks is right.
I didn't get an sense that, in his narrative, he had no choice. He did it because his men were massacring civilians, so he did the "honorable" thing by taking them out, a story that would endear him to both the Federation as well as honorable Klingons.
@@raze3297 He is not talking about the narrative he tells as an ambassador. The narrative is made to make himself look good. In what actually happened the only choice he had was taking credit for killing his subordinates and claiming he did it because they were killing civilians.
You do realise he ran away and his subordinates stayed back to defend him right?
Its not that odd they made a super stim for hand to hand combat against the Klingons as they are stronger than most species
Maybe I misunderstood, but I believe they are not necessarily stronger than an above average human, but they have a much higher pain tolerance, are more durable, and harder to injure than a human.
Also, using stimulants with fighting forces has been a commonly utilized from at least WWII to the 2 Iraq wars. Not weird that Starfleet would resort to that in a war against a stronger, physically at least, foe.
@@Bum_Hip as far as I'm aware the Klingons are physically strongest species( they have like double most organs)in the alpha/beta quadrants possibly only matched by Vulcans/Romulans. Something like twice as strong as your average human. But as we see in DS9 skill and speed can overcome a Klingon in combat.
No it's a dumb plot point but they needed a way to make the M'Benga character a super soldier at times
@@seth8629 dumb, like you mean it has been utilized for millenia in our real world, sometimes to great success..such as Vikings and Mongols...and oh yeah, Germany, Great Britain and, yes, the United Staes right up to current times? The medications he stated as using don't increase physical strength, and that is not shown in any footage in SNW, it merely increases reactivity, boldness and willingness to use strength already capable by a body. That is factual science and therefore not at all a dumb plot devise.
Good point on inviting Pike inviting the doctor and Chapel to that dinner.
I just watched it....but , this is not going to end well for the Dr, right?
It was a really a treat to see Clint Howard from the Corbomite Manoeuvre in the first StarTrek series ... in fact they should do more !!!!
Imbengas days are numbered dont forget Mcoy is going to appear at some time
Hard to believe Clint Howard was 4 when he was in “The Corbomite Maneuver” We original fans have been at this for a long time.
TOS used food synthesizers and this is in all of the TOS manuals and books created in the 70s. From Memory Alpha: "Beta 5 computer utilized replicator technology to manufacture several false identity cards for use by Gary Seven. (TOS: "Assignment: Earth") Starships of this time period were equipped with food synthesizers and other devices for producing clothing and machine parts on demand. This was a step forward, but did not achieve the quality and sophistication of the 24th century replicator. Replicator technology was not yet employed on starships as late as 2293."
The Klingon ambassador claiming responsibility for the death of his men has for purpose of saving the face of the Klingon empire for having lost so many to a medical human officer. This seems to borrow from Samurai lore.
You can see a desk chair, desk drawers, and a curved desktop. It's clearly not a biobed it's an office desk
Rah's use of the Butcher mantle was to keep himself alive. If it was found that it was a human that in fact killed all those klingons and that he had ran like a coward, he would be executed for cowardice and his house would be dishonoured. But I felt that his conscience made him decide that he has to use that title to redeem himself. It's like if he's given a second chance at life and so he decides to use that by doing missionary work. At the end of the day for me though, he was a charlatan and a con.
The guy was not a Klingon ambassador, but a Klingon defector working as a Federation ambassador.
The reason your confused about the Klingons being ok with killing his own men is because it seems you may have missed the part where it was explained that he had defected from empire. They did view it as cowardly, which his actions were. Which is why he was now working with the Federation. So he was speaking on the Federations behalf as an example of a reformed man, and he was getting a lot of benefits from the Federation because of it. It really is a cowardly thing to do. Plus there was no repercussions for his actions and no justice for the victims. Also, Pike did say to them both that they were not required to attend the meal. They could have sd no. This episode reminded me of the Voyager episode "Jetrel" where Neelix came face to face with the man that developed the weapon that destroyed his home, and killed his family, along with millions of others. Arguably one of Voyagers best episodes.
Absolutely a great episode in my opinion. The flasback scenes reminded me of the old Mash tv show with the incoming transports instead of the incoming helicopters. In the last flasback M'Benga went out to get the responsible. But he didn't found him. So my guess is that he finally fulfilled that mission behind the glass and we will see in a future episode that for this action he will held responsible and will have to leave Enterprise. So good plot to invent McCoy as his successor.
They set up a lot of ways to get the doctor off the ship and demoted
I love that many people are seeing the M*A*S*H parallels. The soldier that was injured but yet when healed was eager to go back to the front line was also a M*A*S*H callback. Even the actor looked similar. The Endorian Officer reminds me of Jake Busey from _Starship Troopers._
Easily one of my top 5 Star Trek episodes ever
Go back and watch the scene in the original series episode called tomorrow is yesterday where the transporter chief makes Chicken soup for the astronaut and you'll see that replicators extend back quite a bit further.
So does pike know that M'benga is the butcher ? Is mccoy gonna replace him now ?
Having a Doctor who's not just an exceptional Doctor, but can also go full Shaka Zulu with a drop of the old compound 18 is way cool. No messing around, no "I'm a Doctor, not an assassin" nonsense. M'benga is like if Julian Bashir really was Ras al' Ghul too. McCoy was just a comedic device for Spock's straight man. In fact, I couldn't care less if we never see him again. M'benga is the Doctor we deserve.
I actually can not believe that the doctor murdered the Klingon and said it was self defense.
I can. It wouldn’t be the first time in SNW that M’Benga put his own interests above the interests of Starfleet
Yeah, was not justified at all. Due process.
Yes. He should face charges.
Disagree. He was justified. Due process is just something we invented. It’s not like it’s natural law. And it’s easy to judge from the cheap seats. This man went through some heavy sh**.
@@arisspenjian1220 Doesn't matter.
What happens to Benga, now going forward
Nothing?
"Slightly darker episode" is quite the understatement.
perhaps from what I have heard what it could have been better as the Klingon ambassador could have said was those Klingons were wounded and gave all of his men a warrior death.
The guy was not a Klingon ambassador, but a Klingon defector working as a Federation ambassador.
AMAZING episode. I get people don't like it but.................seeing the more dark times of the Star Trek canon has to be done
Why are all you people spelling “Chapel” like “Chappell”? Must be that you’re not familiar with TOS….
Nobody was forced, Pike would of clearly let them off the hook. The part I liked the most though was the ending, foreshadowing that M'Benga is going to break again and that there is a heavy price to pay for use of the super soldier serum. On the whole the episode felt a little clunky or maybe "forced". Clearly there is a great deal of PTSD lingering in the ranks of Star Fleet and its sad to see that Star Fleet has done a terrible job helping their own. I wanted to like the Klingon Ambassador but it was disjointed, Klingon's don't usually adapt well to other societies but he went from Warmonger to Peacenik very quickly. It would of been better if he had been a Cleric who defected who at the end offers himself to M'Benga as an honorable sacrifice for Klingon misdeeds and M'Benga kills him and you clearly see its out of revenge. When you remove the "had it coming to him" aspect of the story it highlights the Ambassador truly being honorable and M'Benga's lingering and deep damage.
Yeap, that's table represented him.
When watching any episode of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds I am constantly reminded how good this show is; and that’s notwithstanding comparing it to Star Trek: Discovery. Indeed the disparity between the two series is so stark it’s as though one is set in a parallel universe to the other.👾
M'Benga must be playing WOW BECAUSE HE ACT MORE LIKE A FREAKING WOW ROGUE , HE BUILD ON ALL 3 SPEC , assassination ,OUTLAW AND subtlety, BEST PVP FIGHTER IN STRANGE NEW WORLD !
Star Trek: China Beach.
I haven't seen the movie. Just looked it up on Wikipedia. Is this yet another case of Trek lifting a story from elsewhere without proper attribution? The NuTrek writers do that a lot. I'm a teacher. The writers may have been expelled by now for that.
@@billkerns9258 I'll ignore such an aggressively stupid and meritless remark about writing and just note that China Beach was a TV show based on a book about a nurse in Da Nang during the Vietnam War. It was one of Robert Picardo's pre-Voyager TV roles, and I think it was his second longest TV run (and as a doctor no less).
@@bjorn00000 I admitted to not knowing China Beach, and was asking a question. No aggression was intended toward you. And I have zero interest in trading insults or fighting.
@@billkerns9258 The only case where current Trek has lifted a bit too much has been with "Lift Us Where Suffering Cannot Reach" with concepts from the Le Guin short story. Even in that case, the concept is not new but the story is an original work. Saying that "NuTrek writers do that a lot" is a downright offensive take.
The flashback scenes were excellent! But, yes, there were a few inconsistencies. But, over all, a very good episode.
Pike needed his officer's input, greenhorn officers with no Klingon experience wouldn't be able to provide it.
Klingons respect "warriors!" That is why they were at the dinner.
The guy was not a Klingon ambassador, but a Klingon defector working as a Federation ambassador.
Spot On, at timestamp 8:00 on command decisions failed.
I liked the doctor was "the ghost" with all his skills