I've subscribed to your newsletter a few weeks ago and I received the news about the Amazfit GTR2. To bad I've ordered the GTR2 on the day before I received your weeklynewsletter :'). Are there any smartwatches/trackers with a round design that can compete with Fitbit's heart/sleep monitor capability's? I would love to have a nice round design and some 'accurate' data on a consumer level
This is very helpful. I know going from a Fenix 5 to a Fenix 6 that the "advanced" sleep tracking is much improved over their old algorithm, but there is still a lot of room for improvement. Anecdotally, it is better able to detect when I fall asleep and wake up. The old algorithm was much too keen to say I was asleep when I was just merely in bed.
@@NickRoederYou can track amount of sleep accuracy, no wristband is very accurate at tracking actual sleepstages. However fitbit does a fairly good job I think Samsungs sleeptracking is great, it easily picks up naps on the middle of the day and it knows when you go to sleep and when you wake up right on the minut. However you can't trust sleep stages. Garmin is trash
Great video once again! I really appreciate that you are going through the study and explaining it to the average person! A fun video idea / project you can try is to attempt to create your own sleeping algorithm and deploy it in the form of an app onto one of the watches 😀
AFAIK the Fenix 6 got a new algorithm with an update, that has not found its way to the other devices, yet. I wonder if that is better than the current algorithm.
This is absolutely fantastic. I would like to see a test with the Phoenix eight and also whether or not an irregular heartbeat, affects the accuracy. I thought my venue had tracked my sleep very well, but then when I got my Phoenix eight about the same time I found I had a, irregular heartbeat and it seems to not count a lot of my sleep.
It's true.. Garmin's sleep tracking is very, very bad. It is so sad, because overall their products are great! I bought Lily and it keeps showing me unrealistic things! For example, I clearly remember that I could not fall asleep and was still awake by 00:00, but Lily classified it as deep sleep (I wasn't moving around, but I remember that I checked the time on my phone). Also, many times in the morning it does not differentiate between sleep and wake. I literally have to jump out of bed straight away, because it will say that I am still sleeping, even if I am sitting in bed. I am still pleased with my purchase, because I bought it a) because it is small enough for my wrist (I was looking at Fitbit sense, but it's just too huge..) and b) because I want to count my steps and keep an eye on my heart rate, stress, etc. And also I do not think that I suffer from bad sleep, so the lack of accuracy isn't so sad (it could still be very helpful if it was accurate!).
@@jayrock1727 I am wondering how accurate is the Body battery metric then? IF it is based on the quality of sleep, but the sleep metric is useless, then the validity of this metric is questionable too.. It *feels* kind of accurate and does not tell me that I am ready to climb Mt. Everest when I feel like I have to take a break.
@@lvzane they state in the app that all the data acquired can be seen as a guess-o-meter. I wouldn't rely on this for mount everest. If you need data you can rely on then go see a proper doc with proper equipment to get proper numbers.
My Garmin says my sleep is always bad. I am testing a Fidbit based on advice from the Qualified Scientist, and on my first night wearing both devices, I got a Fair score (71) on the Fidbit and Poor score (53) on my Garmin. One thing I noticed is that Garmin uses Stress Levels while sleeping into account while the Fidbit doesn't. I wonder if this has anything to do with it.
Sample size of 1 is meaningless. You could see differences between the best, worse and average percentages. His sample study would make it #56 and slight below the average Garmin result. All that means until we get more data.
Been sleeping with a sense and a fenix 6 for 6o days and they pretty much match, on 2 days the sense showed terrible sleep which didn't reflect the garmin nor my personal perception of that nights sleep
Huawei band 5 I had before getting garmin was so much better at sleep tracking and insights. Garmin quite often registers me sleeping an hour before I truly go and attempt sleeping :'D
Hi Simona! Yes, I think that kind of mistake is the biggest mistake a sleep tracker can make. Accurate sleep onset and wake-up time is the most important!
Two questions for you Sir....1) are you doing a sleep study on a Garmin Fenix 6 pro 2) which model and brand health/fitness tracker smart watch do you think is most accurate? I am on the hunt and SO much information is certainly confusing. THANKS!!!
I purchased Venu 2 a few months ago and returned it because both the sleep tracking and altimeter performed poorly. I think I am done with Garmin watches!
I do see very similar results with my garmin Venus sq. Great device but when it comes to sleep tracking not useful. Yesterday evening it detected deep sleep while I was still reading...
For over a year, I’ve been researching different brands of what would be best for sleep monitoring and best correlated with my own feelings about sleep. It would also be really interesting if you tested the Polar Vantage M2 or Vantage V2 series. Polar is the best sleep monitoring based on my own experiences. I have actually tried the following products: Garmin Venu, Huawei Watch GT2 Pro and Polar Vantage M.
Great video again. Thanks! When I saw the EEG graph (at 2:51) I thought that this is a good way start comparing things, but it doesn't really answer some of the tough questions. But then again, it's very easy picture for most people, so I understand the reason why this chart has to be here. Just like in some of your older videos, there was a better comparison table coming up. I wasn't disappointed. Later (at 6:58) you showed the agreement table I was waiting for and it answered pretty much all the questions I had in mind. Not only that, you showed several agreement tables from your previous experiments. That's the sort of depth I want to see.
Garmin is one of the worst brands in sleep measurement, when I had a Forerunner 245 it was the worst in conjunction with the body battery, it marked me that I fell asleep at 22 and woke up at 9 am, when in reality I fell asleep at 1am and woke up 10am, a significant delay. Right now I am using the Xiaomi Mi Band 5 GLOBAL and it has an impressive accuracy in terms of identifying the hours when I sleep and wake up, sometimes it errs but for a maximum of 20 minutes.
Thanks for the video, Rob! Interesting that you didn’t mention probably the biggest driver of the differences between the peer-reviewed study and your anecdotal experiences: 55 individuals vs 1 individual. Furthermore, how many nights did you test the venu sq and any of the orher wearables in your channel?
Any chance that you'll do a deep dive video on the Vivosmart 4? Specifically interested in comparing to the Inspire 2, which I think is pretty great, but I don't wish to support a company that puts some of the consumers' sleep data behind the premium paywall.
Do you know if all newer Garmin smartwatches have the same algorithm for sleep tracking. For example, with the more expensive Garmin Fenix 6 series. If the algorithm is different, then it would be very interesting to see how sleep tracking works in the Fenix 6 series.
Very nice review. As someone who just purchased a Garmin device for running and triathlons in the future, I am still a bit interested in sleep tracking. I was wondering if another reason for the discrepancy between the paper and your personal findings is that Garmin is showing the results across many individuals vs you measuring on yourself? Inherently I'd expect a measurement on a single person to have more variability than multiple measurements on various people. Additionally, in your case you are essentially optimizing for what tracks sleep the best for you while Garmin is trying to track that for everyone including people of different ages, genders, sleep disorders, and so on so its not at all that surprising to me that the results would differ because its a trade-off inaccuracy for generalizability. Perhaps they track sleep slightly worse for someone like you but they are slightly better at tracking in other individuals. This is just my thought though so I can definitely be wrong XD
Although I think you are doing your best analyzing these devices, a limitation and a difference between your study and Garmin's is the sample size. Yours is n=1, theirs is n=55.
I have so many questions I hope you'll address someday. 1. Are there differences within a brand line (Garmin or FitBit) due to hardware or can we say all FitBits and Garmins will produce the same results because its a software algorithm. 2. Since the differences between devices seem to be based on an algorithm, can all wearable devices improve their sleep measuring accuracy with software updates or will it require new hardware too? If so will you keep us in the loop when devices get better?
Hi Joey, thanks for your questions! 1. I think that the differences in the algorithms between devices are likely the main thing that differentiates sleep tracking between companies. Most devices have a similar array of sensors (though the quality will vary), and the resulting measurements need to be converted into human interpretable data. It is at this stage where the main differences likely happen. So, yes, software updates can make huge differences. That being said, especially for things like heart-rate measurements, the quality of the signal needs to be sufficient. As they say, "garbage in, garbage out". No matter how good the algorithm, if the actual measurements are really bad, the results will be bad. 2. Yes, sleep tracking can improve after updates. However, creating a new algorithm for scoring sleep stages is a big undertaking, and I suspect that many companies will not frequently completely overhaul their system. Best would be if they collect a lot of data from many people with both their watches and polysomnography at the same time. Using this data, some data scientists could create a (hopefully robust) algorithm (e.g. neural network) to estimate sleep stages using data from the watches. All in all, this is a huge investment, and I suspect many companies do not feel much incentive to update their algorithm if consumers "feel" it is good (even if it is not). Hope this makes sense!
I was hoping you could test the Garmin Lily? Sometimes I'm suspicious of products marketed to women only. I hope it's as good as products marketed to men.
I wish I had watched this video before buying the Garmin Fenix a while ago as it's sleep analysis seems like a complete joke to me. I first started tracking my sleep with a Xiaomi Band, then a Fitbit device and finally moving to Garmin. On the first two devices it became a habit to check my sleep patterns daily and usually find high precision, rarely disagreeing with its results. After months of wondering about the Garmin's seemingly random results I observe how I am not even looking at the sleep tracking results anymore and I could stop wearing the Garmin at night, as it's only use is actually now being a good standalone GPS / run tracker, which wasn't the primary reason I bought it.
For any of these fitness/smart watches, I would take the data they provide as guidelines or rough estimates for the user. The trick it seems is filtering out the products that don't do it very well.
Why do these wearables that have SpO2 pulse ox sensors not include this data in the sleep analysis? Detection of sleep apnea through low blood oxygen measurement would be one of the most important indicators of sleep problems and a very common one. Have the devices in 2022 improved on the analysis and included SpO2 data as part of the sleep program?
Great great great video... Objectivity is a rare thing, while here is abundant. I second all the comments asking for an evaluation of the Fenix 6 new algorithm, since... Well... It's the newest and it's the one present in the watch I wear :) would actually love a full scientific review for the Fenix 6, though I do understand it's an old device and we should be near its sunsetting for the possibly upcoming Fenix 7
My girlfriend is a nurse and has power naps throughout the day as her job is very demanding - its not a 9-5 job.... But Garmin only tracks the last nap... not all the naps through out the day - is there a way to get Garmin to add them together ?
I have a Garmin Vivoactive 3 and my wife has the Versa 2. No comparison. The Garmin is a good activity tracker but the Versa 2 is in a different league when it comes to sleep tracking.
@@cusebike5391 thank you so much fir the answer. What is it that the versa 2 provides in terms of sleep tracking that you enjoy so much? And do you know if sleep tracking on fitbit is generally good like that?
Thanks for the interesting review! I love your videos and hope to see more tests soon. I've recently bought Vivoactive 4 myself and somehow it fails to detect my sleep falling hours badly, it keep thinking that I'm sleeping when I'm not, I wonder if you plan to review Vivoactive 4 too? Thank you!
Hi rob I love those videos and your completely scientific approach. I got pretty much every device Our whoop dreem 1 and 2 muse s Fit bit etc In your opinion, which of the non-egec is the most accurate for sleep What would be great a top 10 list?
Hi Reto! Thanks for the compliment. Cool that you have so many devices! What is your impression of these different ones? I am planning to make a video that has an overview, so stay tuned!
@@TheQuantifiedScientist I actually got about 10 times the amount listed Than I just mentioned I fairly deep into bio hacking. For me my favorites are Dreem is absolutely the best but a bit of a pain to wear Oura ring for sleep is fairly good Whoop great for working out love the strain feature but sleep I find not to accurate but hate that it Dosent interface with Apple health
Loved the video, I also liked the other huawei video you made, it intrigued me how it compared to other watches and saw that it did really good . Would love to see it with some of their newer watches like the band 4pro!
Exactly what I have been looking for. I like the garmin watches but the sleep is always off. Also, I think you live in Vienna but you're Dutch. If so, Dankjewel!
Do smart Bands or smart watches, record when you sleep at the morning? In my experience with mi band 6 it does not record any data.. I usually sleep 8am to 10am in the morning. It was not recording any sleep data. Do you have any idea, on a smart band/watch that can record even it is not night time or dawn? Any recommendations. Thank you!
Great review, do you have an update for the Whoop 3.0 sleep and heart rate accuracy, its been gaining tremendous popularity and ive been wearing it religiously. I watched the Whoop video but maybe a longer term review would help. Thanks!
I swap my Fenix 6 out for my Honor (Huawei) Band 6 for sleep tracking. A common theme in these comments 😂. It's just annoying to have to set your sleep time every night if you have an irregular sleep schedule or take naps. I'll often over or undersleep and the Garmin has no idea. Fitbit, Honor/Huawei, or Mi Band for sleep tracking imo (and Fitbit has some features locked behind a subscription so).
Hello, I need to ask you something Which Gramin watch you can recommend to me. I'm running often, and I'm planning to run half marathon again and marathon in future. I want to track my energy level, stress level and my quality of sleep too. Small note, I'm using regularly Nike Run Club app too track my runnings, and I'm planning to use Gramin watch for that too, and sync to NRC app. And my budget is up to 200 euros max Thanks you for your time. All best!
As an (otherwise) very happy Fenix 6 user, I have to say the Garmin sleep tracking is really really really bad. Never ever detects enough deep sleep. Only little in the beginning of the night. Looking into getting a Withings Sleep Analyzer just for additionally having better sleep metrics.
Really a great content. Really like your channel. What I'm missing from these videos about sleep tracking is what does these cycle means regarding our sleep quality. Maybe you can create a video about that and explain the science behind it?
Please can you review the new garmin venu 2 plus? I would like to know if they’ve made any improvements to sleep tracking, I am considering this watch or the Fitbit sense however I prefer the smartwatch and design features on the garmin.
I love your videos, as someone who struggles with sleep since forever I am in search of the best wearable. I have a garmin 6s pro solar, an oura ring and an Apple Watch, all with very different results on deep sleep. Have you done a comparison between devices? Thx
It feels Fitbit (Charge 3) did better job tracking my and my wife's sleep. For me: While I'm watching something before sleeping, garmin (Vivoactive 4s) detects straight away that I'm sleeping. Even with deep sleep phase. Fitbit didn't do that. For my wife garmin almost doesn't detect deep sleep. Like at all. But as device overall we are very happy with garmin especially always on display which has amazing readability in sun. Fitbit is just useless as a watch.
I made the mistake of thinking Garmin sleep tracking would be the same across their product line (same sensors, software, algorithm etc) and bought an instinct solar. It's a joke, I'm not getting a single minute of deep sleep for weeks according to it. Probably better off with a witch doctor telling me.
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Are you Dutch Rob?
I've subscribed to your newsletter a few weeks ago and I received the news about the Amazfit GTR2. To bad I've ordered the GTR2 on the day before I received your weeklynewsletter :'). Are there any smartwatches/trackers with a round design that can compete with Fitbit's heart/sleep monitor capability's? I would love to have a nice round design and some 'accurate' data on a consumer level
Can you to test Samsung Galaxy watch 3 for sleep tracking? It will interesting how it's work in this device.
This is very helpful. I know going from a Fenix 5 to a Fenix 6 that the "advanced" sleep tracking is much improved over their old algorithm, but there is still a lot of room for improvement. Anecdotally, it is better able to detect when I fall asleep and wake up. The old algorithm was much too keen to say I was asleep when I was just merely in bed.
I tested a sense for 60 days vs a fenix 6 and they match so I would worry
Could you please tell which fitness tracker is the most accurate among all brands and models?
+1 on the ques
@@juliens3505 According to Rob, Fitbit's accuracy isn't great, so it's a NO for me!
@@samygold100 So they're all a no then? What you end up getting an EEG?
@@NickRoeder I got a dreem 2 headband, not something I could wear on my wrist but it's more accurate than all wrist bands.
@@NickRoederYou can track amount of sleep accuracy, no wristband is very accurate at tracking actual sleepstages. However fitbit does a fairly good job
I think Samsungs sleeptracking is great, it easily picks up naps on the middle of the day and it knows when you go to sleep and when you wake up right on the minut. However you can't trust sleep stages.
Garmin is trash
Please test Garmin Fenix 6 with the new sleep update that calculates sleep locally on the watch. A HUGE improvement in my experience!
Please do!
Agreed - really want to see this done
Did he re-test? I'll looking to buy the fenix 6 pro as there is a massive price drop but this was putting me off.
Nothing beats science. Now THIS is a review. Thank you.
Science is a spectrum not a monolith. The fact that Rob doubts the peer-reviewed study with 55 individuals over his single experience is telling.
Great video once again! I really appreciate that you are going through the study and explaining it to the average person! A fun video idea / project you can try is to attempt to create your own sleeping algorithm and deploy it in the form of an app onto one of the watches 😀
Hi Rayden, thanks so much for the compliment and the suggestion! Have a great day 😊
AFAIK the Fenix 6 got a new algorithm with an update, that has not found its way to the other devices, yet. I wonder if that is better than the current algorithm.
This is absolutely fantastic. I would like to see a test with the Phoenix eight and also whether or not an irregular heartbeat, affects the accuracy. I thought my venue had tracked my sleep very well, but then when I got my Phoenix eight about the same time I found I had a, irregular heartbeat and it seems to not count a lot of my sleep.
Garmin's sleep tracking is bad... what a pity, their devices generally allow to turn off bluetooth, and it's a good, good point.
This is one of the best things I've ever seen on the internet. Thanks
It's true.. Garmin's sleep tracking is very, very bad. It is so sad, because overall their products are great! I bought Lily and it keeps showing me unrealistic things! For example, I clearly remember that I could not fall asleep and was still awake by 00:00, but Lily classified it as deep sleep (I wasn't moving around, but I remember that I checked the time on my phone). Also, many times in the morning it does not differentiate between sleep and wake. I literally have to jump out of bed straight away, because it will say that I am still sleeping, even if I am sitting in bed. I am still pleased with my purchase, because I bought it a) because it is small enough for my wrist (I was looking at Fitbit sense, but it's just too huge..) and b) because I want to count my steps and keep an eye on my heart rate, stress, etc. And also I do not think that I suffer from bad sleep, so the lack of accuracy isn't so sad (it could still be very helpful if it was accurate!).
Thanks for the feedback L Z, have a great day!😊
Yeah i´ve had the same problem with bad tracking of sleep. So it was pretty much useless for me and i stopped wearing the Fenix 5 Plus over night.
@@jayrock1727 I am wondering how accurate is the Body battery metric then? IF it is based on the quality of sleep, but the sleep metric is useless, then the validity of this metric is questionable too.. It *feels* kind of accurate and does not tell me that I am ready to climb Mt. Everest when I feel like I have to take a break.
@@lvzane they state in the app that all the data acquired can be seen as a guess-o-meter. I wouldn't rely on this for mount everest. If you need data you can rely on then go see a proper doc with proper equipment to get proper numbers.
My Garmin says my sleep is always bad. I am testing a Fidbit based on advice from the Qualified Scientist, and on my first night wearing both devices, I got a Fair score (71) on the Fidbit and Poor score (53) on my Garmin. One thing I noticed is that Garmin uses Stress Levels while sleeping into account while the Fidbit doesn't. I wonder if this has anything to do with it.
I swap my Fenix 6 for a Fitbit that costs a 1/10 of the price to do sleep tracking.
Would I’ve to see an update on this.
Predicted or detected? At some point in the video I thought you were testing a crystal ball LOL! Thank you for the video!
I would also add the differences between your results and Garmin could be sample size (55 vs 1)
Sample size of 1 is meaningless. You could see differences between the best, worse and average percentages.
His sample study would make it #56 and slight below the average Garmin result. All that means until we get more data.
Been sleeping with a sense and a fenix 6 for 6o days and they pretty much match, on 2 days the sense showed terrible sleep which didn't reflect the garmin nor my personal perception of that nights sleep
Is there a fitness tracker that doesn't look like those cyberpunk 2077 wrist things but gets a decent sleep analysis?
Huawei band 5 I had before getting garmin was so much better at sleep tracking and insights. Garmin quite often registers me sleeping an hour before I truly go and attempt sleeping :'D
Hi Simona! Yes, I think that kind of mistake is the biggest mistake a sleep tracker can make. Accurate sleep onset and wake-up time is the most important!
Two questions for you Sir....1) are you doing a sleep study on a Garmin Fenix 6 pro 2) which model and brand health/fitness tracker smart watch do you think is most accurate? I am on the hunt and SO much information is certainly confusing. THANKS!!!
Hey great video!
You should totally do the garmin vivosmart 4!
Keep up the great work!
Perfect analysis which is backed by science. I really like and appreciate your work.
Do you think the shape of the device can effect the accuracy
Excellent review, love the details and honest opinions..maybe could you consider a review for Garmin Venu
Can you do the Garmin Vivoactive 4 please? All sensors :)
Very interesting, useful, and well presented. Thank you so much.
You're very welcome!
I purchased Venu 2 a few months ago and returned it because both the sleep tracking and altimeter performed poorly. I think I am done with Garmin watches!
I do see very similar results with my garmin Venus sq. Great device but when it comes to sleep tracking not useful. Yesterday evening it detected deep sleep while I was still reading...
For over a year, I’ve been researching different brands of what would be best for sleep monitoring and best correlated with my own feelings about sleep. It would also be really interesting if you tested the Polar Vantage M2 or Vantage V2 series. Polar is the best sleep monitoring based on my own experiences. I have actually tried the following products: Garmin Venu, Huawei Watch GT2 Pro and Polar Vantage M.
Amazing how such a renowned brand as Garmin performs so badly compared to the much cheaper models like Fitbit.
I'm very happy to find you. I hope you have something on polar. I'm gonna look for it now. Cheers
Have you performed a longitudinal analysis of your own sleep patterns per your EEG standard device?
Great video again. Thanks! When I saw the EEG graph (at 2:51) I thought that this is a good way start comparing things, but it doesn't really answer some of the tough questions. But then again, it's very easy picture for most people, so I understand the reason why this chart has to be here.
Just like in some of your older videos, there was a better comparison table coming up. I wasn't disappointed. Later (at 6:58) you showed the agreement table I was waiting for and it answered pretty much all the questions I had in mind. Not only that, you showed several agreement tables from your previous experiments. That's the sort of depth I want to see.
Garmin is one of the worst brands in sleep measurement, when I had a Forerunner 245 it was the worst in conjunction with the body battery, it marked me that I fell asleep at 22 and woke up at 9 am, when in reality I fell asleep at 1am and woke up 10am, a significant delay. Right now I am using the Xiaomi Mi Band 5 GLOBAL and it has an impressive accuracy in terms of identifying the hours when I sleep and wake up, sometimes it errs but for a maximum of 20 minutes.
Hi Rob,
Great video!
Would you still recommend the Fitbit charge 4 for sleep tracking in 2021?
Thanks
You have to pay $10 for premium membership to access sleep tracking. Wanted to buy fitbit but found out about it and then gave up on it
Thanks for the video, Rob! Interesting that you didn’t mention probably the biggest driver of the differences between the peer-reviewed study and your anecdotal experiences: 55 individuals vs 1 individual. Furthermore, how many nights did you test the venu sq and any of the orher wearables in your channel?
Any chance that you'll do a deep dive video on the Vivosmart 4? Specifically interested in comparing to the Inspire 2, which I think is pretty great, but I don't wish to support a company that puts some of the consumers' sleep data behind the premium paywall.
Do you know if all newer Garmin smartwatches have the same algorithm for sleep tracking. For example, with the more expensive Garmin Fenix 6 series. If the algorithm is different, then it would be very interesting to see how sleep tracking works in the Fenix 6 series.
Very nice review. As someone who just purchased a Garmin device for running and triathlons in the future, I am still a bit interested in sleep tracking.
I was wondering if another reason for the discrepancy between the paper and your personal findings is that Garmin is showing the results across many individuals vs you measuring on yourself?
Inherently I'd expect a measurement on a single person to have more variability than multiple measurements on various people. Additionally, in your case you are essentially optimizing for what tracks sleep the best for you while Garmin is trying to track that for everyone including people of different ages, genders, sleep disorders, and so on so its not at all that surprising to me that the results would differ because its a trade-off inaccuracy for generalizability.
Perhaps they track sleep slightly worse for someone like you but they are slightly better at tracking in other individuals.
This is just my thought though so I can definitely be wrong XD
Your thoughts are 100% spot on.
Although I think you are doing your best analyzing these devices, a limitation and a difference between your study and Garmin's is the sample size. Yours is n=1, theirs is n=55.
n=55 is a joke when compared to the millions of units sold. There are other problems, some mentioned, that n=1 a much better overall analysis.
Can you please do Garmin Vivomove Style (Luxe), specifically sleep tracking?
I have so many questions I hope you'll address someday.
1. Are there differences within a brand line (Garmin or FitBit) due to hardware or can we say all FitBits and Garmins will produce the same results because its a software algorithm.
2. Since the differences between devices seem to be based on an algorithm, can all wearable devices improve their sleep measuring accuracy with software updates or will it require new hardware too? If so will you keep us in the loop when devices get better?
Hi Joey, thanks for your questions!
1. I think that the differences in the algorithms between devices are likely the main thing that differentiates sleep tracking between companies. Most devices have a similar array of sensors (though the quality will vary), and the resulting measurements need to be converted into human interpretable data. It is at this stage where the main differences likely happen. So, yes, software updates can make huge differences. That being said, especially for things like heart-rate measurements, the quality of the signal needs to be sufficient. As they say, "garbage in, garbage out". No matter how good the algorithm, if the actual measurements are really bad, the results will be bad.
2. Yes, sleep tracking can improve after updates. However, creating a new algorithm for scoring sleep stages is a big undertaking, and I suspect that many companies will not frequently completely overhaul their system. Best would be if they collect a lot of data from many people with both their watches and polysomnography at the same time. Using this data, some data scientists could create a (hopefully robust) algorithm (e.g. neural network) to estimate sleep stages using data from the watches. All in all, this is a huge investment, and I suspect many companies do not feel much incentive to update their algorithm if consumers "feel" it is good (even if it is not).
Hope this makes sense!
@@TheQuantifiedScientist I'm hearing an opportunity for a guy like you to create a better algorithm.....thank you for the reply!
I was hoping you could test the Garmin Lily? Sometimes I'm suspicious of products marketed to women only. I hope it's as good as products marketed to men.
I wish I had watched this video before buying the Garmin Fenix a while ago as it's sleep analysis seems like a complete joke to me. I first started tracking my sleep with a Xiaomi Band, then a Fitbit device and finally moving to Garmin. On the first two devices it became a habit to check my sleep patterns daily and usually find high precision, rarely disagreeing with its results. After months of wondering about the Garmin's seemingly random results I observe how I am not even looking at the sleep tracking results anymore and I could stop wearing the Garmin at night, as it's only use is actually now being a good standalone GPS / run tracker, which wasn't the primary reason I bought it.
I wish Garmin would send you Fenix 6 watches. Because those should have improved sleep detection compared to cheap Garmin models. :)
For any of these fitness/smart watches, I would take the data they provide as guidelines or rough estimates for the user. The trick it seems is filtering out the products that don't do it very well.
Which if the products you have reviewed, would you say is the overall best??? and which is best for sleep???. Ty for making these videos btw ! :D
Check out his Fitbit videos!
@@Inzanti i have, but he might have had later thoughts on some og Them 😹
Is there a top 5 from all tested watches?
Please do HR and Sleep accuracy for the new Garmin Fenix 7 / Epix 2 devices. I am really curious if they have improve for their top end devices.
Fitbit requires premium subscription to allow a detailed sleep data. IMO, no point buying if we need to pay more for it.
lol, 10 dollar a month, what a rip-off.
I apologise for being late to your subscription list! You are awesome!
Fantastic! Love the comparison between wearables
Thanks Hailey!
Would be interesting to compare to the Sleep as android app.
Why do these wearables that have SpO2 pulse ox sensors not include this data in the sleep analysis? Detection of sleep apnea through low blood oxygen measurement would be one of the most important indicators of sleep problems and a very common one. Have the devices in 2022 improved on the analysis and included SpO2 data as part of the sleep program?
Great great great video... Objectivity is a rare thing, while here is abundant.
I second all the comments asking for an evaluation of the Fenix 6 new algorithm, since... Well... It's the newest and it's the one present in the watch I wear :) would actually love a full scientific review for the Fenix 6, though I do understand it's an old device and we should be near its sunsetting for the possibly upcoming Fenix 7
My girlfriend is a nurse and has power naps throughout the day as her job is very demanding - its not a 9-5 job....
But Garmin only tracks the last nap... not all the naps through out the day - is there a way to get Garmin to add them together ?
We want a video about the amazfit GTS 2
What is the best watch to check O2 while sleeping? I really don't care what stages I'm in while sleeping, but if I have any apneas.
Looking forward to your OpenBCI sleep tracker. We will built it also, sooner or later, but eventually with the Python Sleep software.
Great video. PLS do the fitbit versa 2, i really wanna know if it is worth the hype.
I have a Garmin Vivoactive 3 and my wife has the Versa 2. No comparison. The Garmin is a good activity tracker but the Versa 2 is in a different league when it comes to sleep tracking.
@@cusebike5391 thank you so much fir the answer. What is it that the versa 2 provides in terms of sleep tracking that you enjoy so much? And do you know if sleep tracking on fitbit is generally good like that?
Very good waiting for honor band 6😍
I love my Honor Band 6! Been so happy with it.
Thanks for the interesting review! I love your videos and hope to see more tests soon. I've recently bought Vivoactive 4 myself and somehow it fails to detect my sleep falling hours badly, it keep thinking that I'm sleeping when I'm not, I wonder if you plan to review Vivoactive 4 too?
Thank you!
I have the vivosmart 4 and find it is really bad for sleep tracking.
Hi rob
I love those videos and your completely scientific approach.
I got pretty much every device
Our whoop dreem 1 and 2 muse s
Fit bit etc
In your opinion, which of the non-egec is the most accurate for sleep
What would be great a top 10 list?
Hi Reto! Thanks for the compliment. Cool that you have so many devices! What is your impression of these different ones? I am planning to make a video that has an overview, so stay tuned!
@@TheQuantifiedScientist
I actually got about 10 times the amount listed
Than I just mentioned I fairly deep into bio hacking.
For me my favorites are
Dreem is absolutely the best but a bit of a pain to wear
Oura ring for sleep is fairly good
Whoop great for working out love the strain feature but sleep I find not to accurate but hate that it Dosent interface with Apple health
Garmin should also track naps. But currently Garmin Sleep App cannot track naps.
Why Garmin is not able to track naps?
Loved the video, I also liked the other huawei video you made, it intrigued me how it compared to other watches and saw that it did really good . Would love to see it with some of their newer watches like the band 4pro!
I had a Fitbit Versa 2 before I switch to Garmin Instinct. I can say that Fitbit's algorithms are much more accurate than Garmin's.
Exactly what I have been looking for. I like the garmin watches but the sleep is always off. Also, I think you live in Vienna but you're Dutch. If so, Dankjewel!
Subscribed hoping to see reviews for Garmin Venu 2 and Vivoactive 4.
Do smart Bands or smart watches, record when you sleep at the morning? In my experience with mi band 6 it does not record any data.. I usually sleep 8am to 10am in the morning. It was not recording any sleep data. Do you have any idea, on a smart band/watch that can record even it is not night time or dawn? Any recommendations. Thank you!
Hey can you try the bio strap next ? Great work btw it’s tremendous help !
Can you share the link to the scientific paper?
Please do the garmin venu 2 next!
Garmin is dreadful..i wear one now and have been for the past 2 years and am shocked how poor it has been! I am moving to fitbit soon
Bedankt weer Rob! Ik heb de Fenix 5 en die werkt idd ook niet al te best
Great review, do you have an update for the Whoop 3.0 sleep and heart rate accuracy, its been gaining tremendous popularity and ive been wearing it religiously. I watched the Whoop video but maybe a longer term review would help. Thanks!
I swap my Fenix 6 out for my Honor (Huawei) Band 6 for sleep tracking. A common theme in these comments 😂. It's just annoying to have to set your sleep time every night if you have an irregular sleep schedule or take naps. I'll often over or undersleep and the Garmin has no idea. Fitbit, Honor/Huawei, or Mi Band for sleep tracking imo (and Fitbit has some features locked behind a subscription so).
Keep up the great work! 👍
Whats the best finger spo2 device you would recommend ?
Is this watch able to wake you up at the best moment based on your sleep analysis? I cant find any details on that
If garmin its so good why can't record naps in day time
Big question , if garmin can record night time sleep how can't do it in day time 😑
Hello, I need to ask you something
Which Gramin watch you can recommend to me. I'm running often, and I'm planning to run half marathon again and marathon in future. I want to track my energy level, stress level and my quality of sleep too. Small note, I'm using regularly Nike Run Club app too track my runnings, and I'm planning to use Gramin watch for that too, and sync to NRC app.
And my budget is up to 200 euros max
Thanks you for your time.
All best!
Amazing video. How would you compare polar here ?
He's done a video on the Polar Vantage M if that helps!
HI @@Inzanti. Yes, and it a great video. I was hoping to see it as one of his recommendations in this video. Again this is a great video.
Is FirstBeat trickled down to Vivoactive 4 yet or do you have to get a Fenix 6?
Please do a video on forerunner 255
how about stress monitoring? how does that work?
Shouldn’t you have purchased and tested the vivosmart 3, the same watch as in the study for best results, and shown the results in this video….?
vienna is a beautiful city!!
Would be good to see you review a Garmin with the new sleep tracking that is first beat (introduced to some models in mid 2020)
As an (otherwise) very happy Fenix 6 user, I have to say the Garmin sleep tracking is really really really bad.
Never ever detects enough deep sleep.
Only little in the beginning of the night.
Looking into getting a Withings Sleep Analyzer just for additionally having better sleep metrics.
100% agree!
Really a great content. Really like your channel. What I'm missing from these videos about sleep tracking is what does these cycle means regarding our sleep quality. Maybe you can create a video about that and explain the science behind it?
Very Informative channel, NEW Subscriber and Garmin Fenix 6X Pro Solar owner.. 🇺🇸
Very helpful 👍
Glad to hear that Sam! 😃
Please can you review the new garmin venu 2 plus? I would like to know if they’ve made any improvements to sleep tracking, I am considering this watch or the Fitbit sense however I prefer the smartwatch and design features on the garmin.
Hi! I would love to, but Garmin did not get back to me yet. Hopefully they can lend me one!
You look way too happy for me not to subscribe, thanks for the information brother.
I love your videos, as someone who struggles with sleep since forever I am in search of the best wearable.
I have a garmin 6s pro solar, an oura ring and an Apple Watch, all with very different results on deep sleep. Have you done a comparison between devices? Thx
Which one of those seems to work best for you?
Can you test the Garmin Venu 2?
could you test the garmin enduro 2?
Do Venu 2 please
Please do on honor band 6 also
Woke up 16 times accoring to EEG???
It feels Fitbit (Charge 3) did better job tracking my and my wife's sleep.
For me: While I'm watching something before sleeping, garmin (Vivoactive 4s) detects straight away that I'm sleeping. Even with deep sleep phase. Fitbit didn't do that. For my wife garmin almost doesn't detect deep sleep. Like at all.
But as device overall we are very happy with garmin especially always on display which has amazing readability in sun. Fitbit is just useless as a watch.
I made the mistake of thinking Garmin sleep tracking would be the same across their product line (same sensors, software, algorithm etc) and bought an instinct solar. It's a joke, I'm not getting a single minute of deep sleep for weeks according to it. Probably better off with a witch doctor telling me.