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I just wish that AM5 was more like these. Not having 2 or 3 x16 electrically wired slots is really detrimental of being able to run a small home server on older cost effective hardware (like a 16 port raid card or cheap extra nic for example).It means when you upgrade from AM5 to a new board in the future the am5 board might not be good as a router etc.
***STEVE*** Over the years, I have gone into the online store so many times. Unfortunately, I always stop when I reach the checkout. The U$ to CAN$ is a killer, especially when you add shipping on top! Is there any way that the store could have a Canadian 'warehouse,' with CAN$ pricing and shipping? I think GN would benefit. It may require you to put on your fair sales hat, but that's a problem I'm sure you could solve in spades. Maybe you could feel out the potential customer interest in a video question or poll? Remember Business 101, it's better to have a percentage of something, then 100% of nothing. And, the easiest methods of growth is through expansion! Thoughts?
Your new website design has really poor readability on the dates of articles. I don't think I would have seen them if I didn't expect there to be dates. The dark gray melds into the dark blue. A lighter gray would be much better, better yet would be something similar to the category box underneath the article.
@@GamersNexus Never seen Patrick Stone review PSU for a long time. Did he caught PTSD ( Pyro Traumatic Stress Disorder ) from the explosion of Gigabyte PSU back then ?
HEDT motherboards have always been one of my favorite things in the PC world, they are surely the craziest pieces of hardware there is. I remember how there were whole articles written about how beautiful and artistic HEDT motherboards are. They are truly pieces of hardware art. Consumer motherboards are nothing compared to the craziness of HEDT motherboards in every aspect possible.
Agree: I‘m still struggling if I should sell my Gigabyte Designare EX X399 Threadripper Combo with 1920x. I still keep it as a nice Test platform to test hardware, OS, ZFS layouts etc. gigabyte support just sent me a Beta BIOS with Resize BAR option :)
@@weisstdudochnicht1 I can’t bring myself to sell my ASRock x99 Taichi hedt board. I love the aesthetic and functionality of the board. It released later in the x99 cycle and already has multiple M.2 slots and other bells and whistles. Even though it isnt as crazy as many modern TR boards, still pretty awesome. Been thinking about framing it and just pin it to the wall like its an art piece.
@@Chukijay Server boards typically have about 1/2 to 1/3rd the VRM and lean heavily on active cooling to keep the board from cooking. When it comes to efficiency and peak power, there simply is no comparison to a good HEDT board.
@@Chukijay Yes, i don't get the shoving of massive heatsinks on boards and their effectiveness. The cheap MSI B550 MPG board i have has 4 giant pieces of metal on it, even though most companies put them on boards to justify doubling-tripling the price of the board. As i've been watching an older vid from GN about top priced motherboards not even including a debug LED screen, i start wondering why there are boards that for little to almost no advantage over mid, even entry level boards they cost 3 times or 4 times more. Why would you even pay 500$ for a motherboard nowadays? The board i have has BIOS flashback, 4.0 x16 PCI, digital audio, a decent VRM, 6 SATA, 2 M.2, front and rear USB 3.2, onboard lighting, diagnosis LEDs etc. Why would anybody pay 400$ more for a "top" board? Just for WiFi and 10Gb ethernet?
In my experience, the backplate serves more of a protective role. These boards are absolutely packed, and you will find a lot of surface mount devices on the back that can be damaged by standoffs during install.
I bet Wendell is going to have a field day with these. Although I don't have any use for HEDT (yet... you know how that goes) just seeing how cool these things are is nice. Often you get the impression that manufacturers really don't care about consumers but HEDT boards almost make it look like that's not the case.
The difference you've picked up on comes down to the fact that gaming focused PCs are, for want of a better word, toys. Expensive yes, but still toys. HEDT on the other hand is a tool to be bought for business/making money. It is a completely different mindset.
@@monkohm6918Gaming focused PCs, perhaps, yes. But people use even consumer PCs for far more tasks. For me, I use a repurposed workstation (which is the price of a consumer PC) as a home server. And those tasks are far more involved and important than that of a toy, they involve more learning, gaining knowledge, and yes, having fun also.
@@GamersNexus Not OP, but I made the jump for ECC RAM, and lots of it. Rock-solid stability since I ditched the consumer RAM and went ECC. I also can run as many SSDs as I care to buy for ridiculously-fast RAID 0. I do a lot of compiles and work with large, temporary databases. As an independent consultant, HEDT is the sweet spot between consumer desktop and insanely expensive enterprise stuff.
I really love how the Asus PRO Series boards look. It's got the clean, function-focused design of server boards (esp. in the heatsinks) with the fancy black PCBs of consumer boards. Maybe I'll get one in a few years when these systems depreciate in value.
@@billygrennek5299 Ooh yeah, those definitely look nice! But given the prices, if I really do want a clean-looking GPU, I can just buy a regular ol' card and slap a minimalistic waterblock on it.
@@benisrood That's partly why I'd rather wait. To see if Asus actually improves over time, and to make sure the boards hold up well. And since I'd be buying the board used, I wouldn't be directly giving money to Asus.
You'll be waiting for awhile, HEDT platforms barely depreciate in value even after end of life. Take intel's x99,x299 OEM mobos for example, they're still pretty expensive on the used market and TRX50/WRX90 will be significantly more expensive.
That supermicro board looks super interesting. I've been dipping my toes into server hardware lately, and the capability of it is truly amazing. From the looks of it, the supermicro board might be one of the cheapest of the bunch, but also one of the best.
The board looks like every supermicro board for the last 20yrs ha. Just depends what you're needing the computer to do, if gaming is the objective then server motherboards probably aren't the answer.
supermicro isn't exactly among the cheapest of vendors, they mostly sell server grade stuff and offer a long ass guarantee, that ain't cheap, even compared to HEDT parts
Who other than AMD is making an HEDT part except for the companies making these MBs? You know why MSI is sitting this out? It's too niche. It's not enough business to make them money. Why do you think Intel and Nvidia dropped the HEDT market? It's nice and all AMD is doing this, most likely because they have die that won't work for EPYC which is a lot more demanding especially for the IOD, but it's not going to make AMD money, in fact they'll probably lose money on it which is why they skipped HEDT for Zen 3. And this gets back to a point I've never validated but most likely true, when a person buys TR HEDT, most likely they have hardware they're trying to add to these system, like different add on PCIe adapters which is the only reason you need those extra PCIe lanes since any slot is STILL at max X16. Just a wild guess but I imagine there's often issues that come up and the consumer needs help trying to figure out how to get things to work and they turn to AMD for support. But HEDT isn't WS and it's not something AMD is obligated to offer personal support for getting systems working for each person. So, a person buys HEDT and has an expectation of support, but that's why you buy a PRO system which companies that make PRO hardware typically have support packages just like in the world of server. And even in the world of adapters for PCIe, even this is dying out. There used to be a lot of RAID controllers produced, but software RAID is typically replacing RAID controllers, so anything beyond say an PCIe gen4 NVMe X16 adapter which is basically connecting 4 disks straight to the PCIe lanes is becoming more rare. AMD CAN make money on TR PRO WS because it costs more and probably sold with support packages. But HEDT? No, and as desktop becomes more powerful the need for HEDT dies even more. How would HEDT do vs. EPYC? I'd ask how does TR HEDT do against TR PRO. Server parts are binned to use less power. They don't clock as high. Power consumption is everything in the world of server.
@@I_enjoy_some_things That moron ranted SO HARD on Gamers Nexus's video covering the announcement of TR 7000. I stopped counting after having seen some 20 comments. I'm starting to suspect he's a paid actor.
@@johndoh5182 MSI pulled out because they know not even The Braindead will touch Threadripper 7000. Why? - --> Because everyone knows AMD 100% royally shafted their entire non-pro HEDT userbase with that TRX40 insanity !!! --> Threadripper 7000 HEDT will, obviously, be a huge failure. Check out that Gigabyte Threadripper MB - only THREE(!!!) PCIe slots and severely limited IO - and thats with PCIE Gen 5 ffs....now check out the 4 year old PCIe Gen 4 TRX40 Asus Zenith II Extreme - night and day difference. Even MB manufacturers are, rightly, out to destroy AMD's TR 7000 series.
As a Naval electrician, I don't think most homes/apartments have each outlet with it's own circuit. I think they tie them all together into the same breaker. But, what do I know? Like I said, I'm only an electrician on the Navy side. lol
@@vdochev Fridges almost never have a dedicated circuit because they are designed to use less than 800 watts at peak. Electrical ovens almost-invariably use a 220V circuit, irrelevant to the discussion. Most codes require microwave ovens to have a dedicated circuit.
The longer I play around in homelab'ing, the more lanes and enterprise NVME I find myself wanting in a platform. Loving the server-grade I/O on most of these new boards!
"5090 Cinderblock Edition" Makes me want to get some of them red I-beam case kits, and build a tower that looks like an unfinished skyscraper, so I have just the build for it! Best of all, it could fit these huge motherboards easily!
It was the detailed board diagram and feature/component videos that originally caught me attention to this channel. Always glad to see this kind of content.
I have an older supermicro (Xeon 2600 v3/v4 lga2011-3) ATX board with dual sockets. They tend to be good about offering ATX options where others don’t. These boards are nuts.
You know, I'd expect tests with a Supermicro board. These systems are for workstations and stability is king and Supermicro is the first brand that I would think of when stability is needed.
As more appears on the I/O back plate, the two things that should appear on all motherboard I/O back plates are the back up battery and the clear bios jumpers/switch, as these often are places in such ridiculous places you have to dismantle your build either to remove the battery or use the jumper/switch to reset the bios to default should the system fail such that you cannot access the bios via the keyboard and monitor.
Those should have switches on the I/O! But yes, you are right, you should be able to access any component independently without having to take anything else off/out.
I think generally just removing one or two cards is sufficient to reach the battery, which is not a big deal to do once every 10 years when it runs out, but I definitely agree on having a clear CMOS button on the mobo rear I/O.
Honestly I'd be happy just having stuff like that on a spot that won't get covered by cards. If you're busting your BIOS so often you need to clear it that often, you're probably as well running it with the case side/front plate removed anyway, and keeping it away from the outside of the case helps stop butterfingers (or curious fingers) from doing the oops and wrecking what could be carefully-tuned settings.
I'm fully expecting to see a slot in our Robot Overlords' chests for housing an Nvidia 5090 Cinder Block edition. Rumor has it that the downclocked ones will reveal themselves if you rub their chests and the die mark comes off.
Finally someone is acknowledging the 5090 CB edition! Jokes aside I do want to upgrade my TR 2950 but the fact that nobody is announcing prices does concern me, probably I will not be able to afford any of this and go back to regular cpus for work (Especially after this whole year of strikes in the film industry).
Remember back in the late 90's- mid 2000's when most consumer motherboards all came with five expansion slots at the very least? Flash-forward to today, and you're lucky to get four slots while paying a outrageous mark-up on most enthusiast boards.
There's definitely less need for them and less people using them so it's understandable, but I still hate to see boards with barely any PCIe slots. Back in the day you'd need a sound card and in the 90s you might have a 2D GPU alongside a Voodoo for 3D. Nowadays everything is built into the mobo, including wifi sometimes, so expansion is only needed for a discrete GPU and maybe capture card or some niche card you might need.
But back then you had expansion boards for everything because they ran proprietary/odd cables. My flatbed scanner was SCSI and came with a card. Both my printers were LPR so I needed an extra card because the board only had one. My TV tuner was on a separate card. My sound card was separate. Today all that god-awful junk either no longer exist, is USB or is build into the motherboard. Today most people don't even use internal grabber cards. Basically after the GPU the rest are just for raiser cards for more NVMe slots.
@@andersjjensen But being able to upgrade your IO or processing capabilities beyond 2 cards without needing more than 6-8 cores is still valuable. For example, if you want more USB cards to pass through to virtual machines, faster Ethernet for your home server, multiple graphics cards for AI/ML workloads or again, PCIE passthrough. Seeing so many modern motherboards ditch more than 2 PCIe slots (one of which runs at a quarter of the bandwidth it should) in favor of even more NVMe drives that could be used in PCIe slots instead, it's frustrating for people who want to have those capabilities in their computer. Of course, Threadripper systems are quite expensive for just having more PCIe cards to plug in since you're also paying for the core count and memory bandwidth/capacity, but this is still a problem on consumer boards. I'd love to either see lower end threadripper CPUs and motherboards that cater to the same price range at Ryzen, but for this audience of users instead, or just an upgrade to Ryzen's IO capabilities, on all CPUs, and have the motherboard manufacturers finally use their insane markups to provide consumers with beneficial features like more expansion options.
Threadripper has always been a balancing act of giving people more than Ryzen while not letting those lovely Epyc margins get away. I was genuinely surprised non-Pro models came back.
Nice thing about Intel Sapphire Rapids is that the W790 board is one platform for both 2400 and 3400 CPUs. So even if you "invest" in a high-end motherboard, you can get a more budget CPU and upgrade it later. Wish AMD's PRO platform would support both CPU series
@@katzicaelI'm not sure if this is sarcastic or not because either way it's wrong. If you're being sincere, they obviously can't all be for GPUs because some of the slots will be blocked by GPUs, and a tweak in spacing would increase the number of multi slot cards you could attach even with the same slot count and board size. If you're being sarcastic, a lot of the connectivity for high performance systems these days is devoted to multi GPU systems for GPGPU, and while there are plenty of single slot cards that are borderline essential in HEDT/HPC, that slot layout means you couldn't even fit those in between more than 2-3 GPUs anyway, again despite there being enough raw physical space and exposed lanes to do it with a different layout.
@@bosstowndynamics5488But if you look at the actual layout of say, the ASUS TRX50-SAGE, it does have the first two slots spaced at 2X. So we're talking about extreme examples where you would need more 2X slot spacing and at that, the motherboard becomes ridiculously large or, like said, you run out of spacing for all other PCIE expansion. Most use cases don't require more than 2 graphics cards per board and if they do, you're using risers and custom chassis for the GPUs anyways.
@@RutgersSieve Don't have the screenshot in front of me but there's one of the single slot spaced areas where moving it over one would increase the number of 2 slot cards you could fit. It's also worth noting that the number of single slot cards you could fit in this board alongside a twin 3 slot card setup would be larger with a different configuration as well.
Don't forget about vendor locked examples! Some of TR 5000 cpu's locked to dedicated oem motherboard and will not boot on other boards!!! Be very careful before you buy!! If CPU was installed in Lenovo workstation and now on sale standalone - this is very expensive brick.
I'd urge people not to buy the ASUS variant. I currently use the threadripper pro 3955WX, and I went with the ASUS sage WRX80 board. It was great, until the ipmi failed. I RMA'd it, where they claimed there was damage to the board that didn't match the photos I took before I sent it. They then shipped it back via fedex, without signature and it got stolen. I didn't get an insurance payout because there was no signature required and ASUS never gave me the option. I lost one of my first professional video editing clients because of ASUS. I use the Asrock board now and it's better plus it has TB4.
Can confirm. Asus boards are trash. I had Asus Tuff mobo for amd ryzen. Both were DOA. I got an Asus WRX80 sage for my threadripper build. It will randomly not work, usb ports will die, it has shaken my confidence in Asus.
I wish ASUS would publish more info about their WRX90 board, especially the size. I'm hoping it will fit in a Fractal Torrent (surely it will). My guess is that it would be 12"x12", about the same as the WRX80.
It doesn't surprise me that Gigabyte is emphasizing their fancy PCI-e lock, considering their 30 and 40 series graphics cards have that known defect where the lock tab cracks, breaking a trace and making the card useless. Then they decline your RMA! Ironically, happens on the AERO cards so it's no surprise they put that overbuilt lock on the AERO D Threadripper. Was actually planning to buy the 4090 Aero but then word of their horrible design and failure to resolve it via RMA started going around. Ended up going with an Asus card instead. I'll never buy a Gigabyte product after that nonsense - it's one thing to screw up and make it right; it's another to screw up and blame your customers, leaving them with a $1800 paper weight.
I want an old-fashioned green motherboard with white connectors. With a clean and lean design. No fans. I'd also much prefer to have an APU on a threadripper board, simply because I'd much rather have the memory bandwidth for an integrated GPU. And an IGPU that is fed from 4 high-end DDR5 ram sticks should be able to throw in some decent performance.
5:46 256GB, DDR5, 4800, ECC, With no CL listed on the product page for $3,200.00. My guess would be it's in the low to mid 40s. 11:24 Blazing (Gen5x4) > Hyper (Gen4x4) Edit: Steve's frustration is, stupid names (marketing) attached to real stats. 15:45 You could add, onboard hardware based video capture, between the Input and the output of this theory. 17:12 I had to buy a USB to COM adapter for my workstation, because my Smart UPS couldn't connect to its own management software with the supplied USB cable. COM ports rule. 18:27 Steve is 100% correct, I/O is the most important purchasing decision, but the average person does not know the division of compute, storage or bandwidth (IOPS) for their application. Follow the bits and throw money at the bottlenecks. After upgrading every bottleneck, you realize you've completely rebuilt your system and the old one is in pieces at your feet.
i'm getting flashbacks to when i had the 1950x shortly after launch. spent ~1 hour trying to get the damn cpu socket to close right and apply the right pressure to the pins. and even when i got it all seated correctly, it was a constant troubleshooting game. so many random issues lol. mainly, the ram not working right and leading to a blue screen. fun times.
The only problem I ever had with my 1920x was one of the RAM slots was soldered wrong, and even then that mysteriously fixed itself during a test rebuild (I wasn't maxing the RAM anyway so I just used different slots initially)
The Ryzen Pro motherboards in some of our work HEDT boards were enough, these look absolutely mad. Can't wait to try and justify getting some for our designers ;-)
All depends on pricing. If this can replace my server AND my gaming machine, awesome. I can throw my domain stuff in VMs, send those through one NIC and my main OS on its own NIC and use iLO/IPMI/whatever when I’m away from it. I still have a hard time saying “why not just build a server” but some people want it all in one box
@@drunkhusband6257 Those boards don't support what I need. Most of these boards will naturally support S.L.I like all WRX80 boards do & most TRX40 do. They also support 4 way crossfire too. I cannot find a newer Consumer Intel board that still supports S.L.I past Z690.
Because SLI is dead, there is no reason to have it at all anymore. The only reason SLI existed was for gaming....so what would you need threadripper for?@@kevinerbs2778
@@drunkhusband6257 E-cores, only 2 memory channels, and only 16 PCIe lanes. You must be drunk. A 13900K is a toy, it has no connectivity, it performs like a toy when compared to Threadripper, and HEDT has a LOT of reason to exist for consumers who want powerful builds. Now more than ever.
Aside from the awesomeness of the HEDTs.... I love the dry humour. I am editing while listening to this and caught myself chuckling out loud... eg blazing and hyper and the 5090 cinderblock edition... Did like the ASUS boards although after their AM5 quality issues I'd gone off their brand. Gonna keep an eye on this. I am moving to more workload heavy use as I am moving more and more from photography to videography, which has led me into the world of blender and vfx. I was waiting for the 8950x but one of these 7960 or 7970s might be the go depending how badly we are going to get gouged out here in Australia and if I can play Apex Legends on it (I only ever play 1 game at a time and never single player games).
Me and friend have the same x570 MSI board and have been given the big old middle finger from them. His USB ports cant do VR and mine can't do the rated XMP profile for my QVL'd memory. I haven't tried to do it lately, but the boards are definitely on the shittier tier. Big Fuck It energy.
@@j_ferguson I've had my x570 gaming plus for a couple years now, it's been rock solid, my only complaint is that the second M.2 is PCI 3 and doesn't support direct storage. I have found I have to set my memory speed manually instead of using XMP. (using 3600) Prior to that I ran MSI boards on AMD CPUs and Nvidia GPUs almost exclusively. If MSI is backing away from AMD (or vice versa) it will hurt the entire industry, and I will probably be done with them. the appeal of MSI was cross compatibility between parts, you always see MSI gpus in Frankenstein rigs for a reason, they just work. The software, though not perfect, was usually better than other brands, such as dragon center (though I have my complaints about that). And for those of us who only used MSI parts, you could expect your rig to work when you were done building it, or atleast have support documentation to help. Idk what changed over the last couple years, but they have not been the same since the pandemic.
@@grtninja I tried setting the timings and frequency manually without luck. The worse is I don't have a clear CMOS button and the battery is beneath the GPU. I really hate having to touch two pins together. The fact my friend never had buggy hardware replaced and or compensated for sticks with me
I don't understand Threadripper anymore. It used to be that OOMF that you didn't get with consumer grade chips, aimed at people who needed a lot of cores, maybe more PCI-E lanes, working on tech stuff, perhaps programming or editing. Anything that could use all that power. But now I wonder how good they are, in price-value ratio, compared to a high end consumer chip that already have plenty of cores of which most of the things don't make use of, generally speaking and also adding an EPYC chip, even if it's used/last gen so you don't pay as much. If any app would need more cores and could use all of it, wouldn't an EPYC be better despite perhaps slower cores?
EPYC is more expensive than you might think unless you go back 2-3 generations, and Zen 4 is, despite the negative press from the factory overclocked initial X parts, a substantial architectural improvement that means a lot less power per unit work done in addition to much better raw performance, and not all of the workloads being done on these systems are embarrassingly parallel so single core performance is still important in some cases. More specifically, these systems are geared mostly towards small to medium businesses for a few key use cases: 1) For compute, people who need a lot of compute power in a single work station, for instance complex CAD, 3D animation, video processing or other more specialised workloads. The extra cost pales in comparison to getting work done faster and wasting less of your expensive specialist employee's time, so they get away with higher costs, although not as much as top tier pro level stuff since these tasks might not be as processor bound at this level 2) For IO - those PCIe lanes translate into much faster storage access, much faster networking (eg multiple 10GbE ports, even SFP fibre if you want) and much faster local data transfer eg media ingest. This is one of the main reasons a lot of these tech channels are really excited about the non-pro systems (LMG said a while ago theyve got a 29xx series Threadripper just to ingest footage, and Steve in this video was noting he can think of good ways to put those lanes to use). The diminishing returns above this point means that non-Pro TR hits a sweet spot for this use case in small and medium businesses 3) For GPGPU - if you aren't big enough to throw around EPYC servers with PCIe fabric, you want all your GPUs on the same system to be used by that system. This kind of ties in with 1, but it's more about the GPU side of things. This is the most likely case to be a candidate for an old EPYC server, but even in this case more CPU power is still nice to have and you might start hitting PCIe bandwidth bottlenecks with older PCIe generations (plus, to keep those GPUs fed you need a ton of networking and/or storage, see point 2). Plus, there's a small but significant group of people who will buy these systems just as enthusiasts, and the latest and greatest is always going to have an appeal to that group that might encourage some of them to give their money directly to AMD and the OEMs rather than to the used market.
I do agree. Back when Intel was in the height of its stagnation, HEDT made much more sense, as you had to make the jump if you wanted more than 6 cores or so. But now, the R9 and i9 Series are so strong, only the most hardcore enthusiast or professionals with really high requirements (or rates per hour) need these beautiful, monstrous motherboards. I'm a CEO myself (run my own graphic design company), and it'll be a very long time before I need anything more than 16 cores
That's exactly what Threadripper is. And, regular chips don't even come close. "high end consumer" is an oxymoron. AM5 only has 2 memory channels, 16 PCIe lanes, and is limited to 16 cores. It's garbage and performs like garbage compared to Threadripper.
@@joshuastedford1670 You don't have to be a "hardcore enthusiast or professional" to want to do common stuff like Blender or Unreal Engine game dev or AI with much better times. R9 and i9 series are not strong, they are heavily locked down and they aren't fast. Being the top of garbage isn't an achievement.
Same. Was waiting for a successor to my 2950X, which is really dated at this point (yeah, a bit more IO and memory than desktop Ryzen, but CPU performance itself is meh compared to desktop Ryzen).
Threadripper WRX90 looks like a good product for doing AI learning with 8 single slot water cooled 4090s. I cant wait to see what motherboard Puget Systems is going to use. I think this is why 4090s are scarce and pricey even with the China the embargo on 4090s.
@@Xamy- Quoting Tim Dettmers, "Generally, NVLink is not useful. NVLink is a high speed interconnect between GPUs. It is useful if you have a GPU cluster with +128 GPUs. Otherwise, it yields almost no benefits over standard PCIe transfers."
@@dyson9422 Doesn't NVLINK enable the cards to share memory? Or do current PCI E 4.0 x16 card configurations allow for memory sharing through PCIE? I'm just curious.
These platforms are going to be insanely priced. Would love to have one for the performance, though. Where's the trx50 aorus master and evga trx50 dark? I know it's early but we can hope.
Yea regarding Supermicro, I was shocked the other day when I found a pretty old board they made that was looking a lot like the Steele series. It actually could have been from the Steele series, I can't remember atm. I didn't think they made such visually appealing boards at all.
One thing I'd like to see with these boards is PCIe bifurcation support testing. Something as simple as an x16 card with 4 M.2 slots properly wroking would be good to see. You could go for something more spicy too, like a riser card that has 4 x4 PCIe slots on it, and a different device plugged into each.
Your continued satire among products which include better/higher numbering and better alpha/complicated characters is excellent. All manufacurers deserve a rip on that.
Sad to see MSI lacking on AMD. I've been almost all MSI since my first gaming PC and this month was the first upgrade to a (non-msi) XFX GPU (7800 XT) because the lack of MSI this gen
The JHL8540 thunderbolt controller to support video over thunderbolt would require the video source if not onboard video to provide the video. This is the reason for the DP input. Given intel attitudes on use of a separate cable, the port may lack thunderbolt markings, while the manual may be carefully crafted to imply non logo certified thunderbolt is in fact present.
The Threadripper prices are insane too. Especially in Canada. I currently need a new HEDT to replace my aging X99 6950X and I would like to go with Threadripper but it's just too expensive for what you get. So I'm probably going to wait and go with a R9-9900X 12-Core and 192GB memory. I do have an Intel W7-2495X Workstation here that I bought in 2023, which was $12000 CAD. I priced out the competing Threadripper and it was $20000 CAD. Intel needs a new proper affordable HEDT X399 or something with a $500 motherboard and $1000 CPU with quad channel memory and 32 PCIe5 lanes and up to 24 P-Cores.
I’m genuinely interested in a Threadripper this go around. I’m just hoping for an mATX with IPMI, 10Gb (SFP would be nice, not holding my breath), and at least three full width PCIe 4.0 lanes. Then again… knowing the first hopeful spec I listed… probably not gonna happen.
Totally just speculating here, but I think the reason MSI isn't doing TRX/WRX boards is cause maybe they know AMD won't be supporting these platforms for very long? So they think "why bother with the R&D if we're only gonna sell a gen or two for a niche platform?" Just my thoughts.
If that was criteria than they would slept through half of intel's launches. No, I think they play dangerous game. Cornering themselves like EVGA did and then had no other way than one out of game.
I really hope those Display Port in to Thunderbolt 4 out becomes way more common. Especially helps with a lot of thunderbolt displays such as the Pro Display XDR.
Really want to see a SuperMicro WRX90 system with 8 memory slots and at least 5 full PCIe slots (couldn't care less for M.2 crap, that's what oculink/sas 4 (24gbps) is for). Supermicro boards have been great for the last 20+ years (shouts out to Tyan as well as another great board maker). for true workstation systems you do not want any additional functions you want the bare minimum and you want it to WORK. In reality, what I would love to see (due to the stupid pricing on threadripper pro cpu's) would be a full EATX (12x13 or whatever spec) Eypc board for a single cpu but with 12 channel memory support. You run out of memory bandwidth pretty damn fast when > 16-24 cores.
@@falsevacuum1988 with HEDT or more properly workstation class boards, overclocking is not an issue. You want 24x7x365 with rock solid stability. overclocking is for people who like to jump out of planes without parachutes. completely different market. :) Basically you're looking for full ECC data paths (ECC memory, as well as PCIexpress ECC checking); no or *very* limited m.2 (If you want this you use a slot and design your own solution, and in most cases it will probably be oculink or sas4/24gbps) the only 'on-board' that you may want is a sata connection for a dvd as media still comes that way. you want dual 10Gbit (redundancy) at a minimum (or better dual qsfp+ for 25/40gbit) plus IPMI for management. basically you want the full 80 lanes going to pcie slots, with the ~48 lanes for other I/O (which is more than enough for sas/oculink, chipset (usb, sata, etc), fast ethernet. As for power, I've used supermicro & tyan boards since the 1990's. they all have been designed very well for power distribution for 24x7 use.
@@stevekristoff4365 I will build 7975wx pro + ??? board + 8x32 RAM (5600 if available) + AIO (i hope SIlverstone will adapt its SP5 variant). I want to see + 10% performance with PBO and watercooling. This tiny Supermicro VRM radiators doesn't look like PBO capable. Workload is scientific computations PLUS daily / gaming PC and (4090) rendering as hobby. I don't want to go dual PC (say 14700 PC+ Epyc server) - it will be more expensive and i don't have enough space.
It's kinda crazy that they're having to stuff so much IO into the (closely spaced) PCIe slots just to cater to the potential capabilities of the CPU (which are admittedly quite impressive). I wasn't really paying attention to PC hardware the way I am now when Threadripper came to market originally, but these motherboards offer a truly impressive amount of connectivity. One thing I'm wondering about, since I'm interested in VR and that uses a lot of USB ports for... well everything. Why can't I find a USB host bus adapter card (PCIe to USB ports, internal headers or external Type A / Type C ports) that uses a PCIe 4.0 or 5.0 interface? Every single one I can find on Amazon maxes out at using the PCIe 3.0 standard. What I want to know is why is this the case when they could switch to using a newer revision of PCIe and either make a card that fits in a smaller PCIe slot or offer more bandwidth to the existing ports? For instance, most of the "7 port" USB host cards that fit in a PCIe slot are limited to 5gbps overall bandwidth and a PCIe 3.0 X1 interface. There are occasional ones that use an X4 slot, those are better because they offer more bandwidth to be shared among all the ports. But I never see any cards that offer 7 USB ports, at 5gbps each, that use a PCIe 4.0 or 5.0 interface to allow their fitment in an X1 slot or offer more overall bandwidth to the collection of ports (say upgrading them to USB 3.1 gen 1 ports at 10gbps each for all 7, using a PCIe 4.0 x4 interface). Sure the card might be more expensive in that case, but there's surely a market for it, especially with the dawn of these Threadripper 5000 HEDT motherboards that have so many "physically X16, electrically who knows" slots with no single slot being of lower revision than PCIe 4.0. Basically, the motherboards have the IO for it, so why can't I find a good HBA card that is capable of UTILIZING IT? Maybe there needs to be reviews of non-GPU cards that fit in PCIe slots. Would pair well with reviews of the new HEDT cpus and motherboards that are coming out, at least, or so I think.
Threadripper is a must have for gaming as other much cheaper platforms provides much less pcie lanes. One graphic card is 16 lanes so for usb4/thunderbolt and other usb and ofcourse several nvme in raid no lanes left.
The Z790 Aero G has the same display port setup and it's for what you mentioned. Run a short cable from GPU to the display port in then USBC to a display. Can't wait for this stuff to hit market and reviews to start coming out, probably going to build myself a TRX50 workstation next year so I can finally have more PCIE slots and proper ECC support. AMD better not drop support this time around.
I built a 3960X Threadripper system that I still use to this day ... and I won't be doing another. I don't trust AMD not to just axe this platform again, just like they did the TRX40 platform. And the support that I got from ASUS with my problems was non-existent. ASUS ... THEY JUST DIDN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THEIR CUSTOMERS.
Never had issues with gigabyte for my TR builds ever since the x399Gaming 7 . I moved away from TR and use EPYC for my workstations but maybe I'll switch back and I'll definitely go with gigabyte again. Their RGB software can eat sheet though.
This seems to be new territory for GN AFAIK. Thumbs up, I like(d) it! A workstation used for gaming? Sure, why not. It's really just a more powerful PC.
And here I thought the WRX80 version of the ASUS Sage Wifi that I use had a lot of power connectors with 1 24-pin, 2 8-pin 12-volt, 1 8-pin PCIe and 2 6-pin PCIe connectors. I guess ASUS just had to on-up themselves this round although the WRX80 was a 280 watt TDP and the WRX90 is 350.
Check out our deep-dive on the Steam Deck OLED vs. LCD differences! Really fun video: ua-cam.com/video/9jhRh11bTRA/v-deo.html
Read about the new Threadripper CPU specs here: gamersnexus.net/news/new-amd-threadripper-7980x-7970x-7960x-threadripper-pro-cpus-announced
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I just wish that AM5 was more like these. Not having 2 or 3 x16 electrically wired slots is really detrimental of being able to run a small home server on older cost effective hardware (like a 16 port raid card or cheap extra nic for example).It means when you upgrade from AM5 to a new board in the future the am5 board might not be good as a router etc.
Usually the ones I know who are "blazing" it up are slower than the ones who are "hyper".
***STEVE***
Over the years, I have gone into the online store so many times. Unfortunately, I always stop when I reach the checkout. The U$ to CAN$ is a killer, especially when you add shipping on top! Is there any way that the store could have a Canadian 'warehouse,' with CAN$ pricing and shipping? I think GN would benefit. It may require you to put on your fair sales hat, but that's a problem I'm sure you could solve in spades. Maybe you could feel out the potential customer interest in a video question or poll? Remember Business 101, it's better to have a percentage of something, then 100% of nothing. And, the easiest methods of growth is through expansion! Thoughts?
Your new website design has really poor readability on the dates of articles. I don't think I would have seen them if I didn't expect there to be dates. The dark gray melds into the dark blue. A lighter gray would be much better, better yet would be something similar to the category box underneath the article.
Are all the OEMs in on the only 4 RAM slots thing?
honestly, I'd expect "reduces the risk of fire" to come from Gigabyte, not Asrock
ooooof. The internet remembers.
It could also be considered a shot at Gigabyte
@@GamersNexus Never seen Patrick Stone review PSU for a long time. Did he caught PTSD ( Pyro Traumatic Stress Disorder ) from the explosion of Gigabyte PSU back then ?
Asrock is dogshit and should sell their motherboard division to EVGA for 0¥
If you're buying a PSU from gigabyte.. well, that's your first mistake. I'll never buy a PSU that doesn't start with the letter Seasonic.
HEDT motherboards have always been one of my favorite things in the PC world, they are surely the craziest pieces of hardware there is. I remember how there were whole articles written about how beautiful and artistic HEDT motherboards are. They are truly pieces of hardware art. Consumer motherboards are nothing compared to the craziness of HEDT motherboards in every aspect possible.
Agree: I‘m still struggling if I should sell my Gigabyte Designare EX X399 Threadripper Combo with 1920x. I still keep it as a nice Test platform to test hardware, OS, ZFS layouts etc.
gigabyte support just sent me a Beta BIOS with Resize BAR option :)
These HEDT motherboard are truly the _creme de la creme_ of desktop motherboards!
@@weisstdudochnicht1 I can’t bring myself to sell my ASRock x99 Taichi hedt board. I love the aesthetic and functionality of the board. It released later in the x99 cycle and already has multiple M.2 slots and other bells and whistles.
Even though it isnt as crazy as many modern TR boards, still pretty awesome.
Been thinking about framing it and just pin it to the wall like its an art piece.
Do you remember what AMD did to every TRX40 user? Do you remember that infamous "long term support promise"?
@@ChrisM541looks longingly at my TRX40 board and 3960X
I forgot how batshit insane HEDT boards can get. This new generation of Threadripper gonna be wild.
They’re basically server boards that trade necessary (at this level anyway) server features for onboard WiFi and cool colors/heatsinks.
@@ChrisM541Linus does 😂
@@Chukijay Server boards typically have about 1/2 to 1/3rd the VRM and lean heavily on active cooling to keep the board from cooking. When it comes to efficiency and peak power, there simply is no comparison to a good HEDT board.
@@user-mk4or5yu9r Individuals running UA-cam channels need computers this powerful.
@@Chukijay Yes, i don't get the shoving of massive heatsinks on boards and their effectiveness. The cheap MSI B550 MPG board i have has 4 giant pieces of metal on it, even though most companies put them on boards to justify doubling-tripling the price of the board. As i've been watching an older vid from GN about top priced motherboards not even including a debug LED screen, i start wondering why there are boards that for little to almost no advantage over mid, even entry level boards they cost 3 times or 4 times more. Why would you even pay 500$ for a motherboard nowadays? The board i have has BIOS flashback, 4.0 x16 PCI, digital audio, a decent VRM, 6 SATA, 2 M.2, front and rear USB 3.2, onboard lighting, diagnosis LEDs etc. Why would anybody pay 400$ more for a "top" board? Just for WiFi and 10Gb ethernet?
In my experience, the backplate serves more of a protective role. These boards are absolutely packed, and you will find a lot of surface mount devices on the back that can be damaged by standoffs during install.
I bet Wendell is going to have a field day with these. Although I don't have any use for HEDT (yet... you know how that goes) just seeing how cool these things are is nice. Often you get the impression that manufacturers really don't care about consumers but HEDT boards almost make it look like that's not the case.
Hahaha, Wendell will do awesome things with these!
The difference you've picked up on comes down to the fact that gaming focused PCs are, for want of a better word, toys. Expensive yes, but still toys. HEDT on the other hand is a tool to be bought for business/making money. It is a completely different mindset.
@@monkohm6918Gaming focused PCs, perhaps, yes. But people use even consumer PCs for far more tasks. For me, I use a repurposed workstation (which is the price of a consumer PC) as a home server. And those tasks are far more involved and important than that of a toy, they involve more learning, gaining knowledge, and yes, having fun also.
FEA, RT....
I do miss my old Threadripper setup for value, but it helped me to realize I needed full enterprise instead.
What made you make the jump?
What Steve said, plus I am curious to know what your use-case / industry is
@@GamersNexus Not OP, but I made the jump for ECC RAM, and lots of it. Rock-solid stability since I ditched the consumer RAM and went ECC. I also can run as many SSDs as I care to buy for ridiculously-fast RAID 0. I do a lot of compiles and work with large, temporary databases. As an independent consultant, HEDT is the sweet spot between consumer desktop and insanely expensive enterprise stuff.
@@sharpjs Not GN, but they were asking what made him jump to enterprise, not to HEDT.
I really love how the Asus PRO Series boards look. It's got the clean, function-focused design of server boards (esp. in the heatsinks) with the fancy black PCBs of consumer boards. Maybe I'll get one in a few years when these systems depreciate in value.
@@billygrennek5299 Ooh yeah, those definitely look nice! But given the prices, if I really do want a clean-looking GPU, I can just buy a regular ol' card and slap a minimalistic waterblock on it.
How quickly people forget the recent scandals of ASUS.
@@benisrood That's partly why I'd rather wait. To see if Asus actually improves over time, and to make sure the boards hold up well. And since I'd be buying the board used, I wouldn't be directly giving money to Asus.
I'm glad there are motherboards that don't look like discount Gundam knock-offs.
You'll be waiting for awhile, HEDT platforms barely depreciate in value even after end of life. Take intel's x99,x299 OEM mobos for example, they're still pretty expensive on the used market and TRX50/WRX90 will be significantly more expensive.
That supermicro board looks super interesting.
I've been dipping my toes into server hardware lately, and the capability of it is truly amazing.
From the looks of it, the supermicro board might be one of the cheapest of the bunch, but also one of the best.
The problem with their boards that I’ve found is sometimes they don’t provide the maximum amount of power a cpu is rated for.
The board looks like every supermicro board for the last 20yrs ha.
Just depends what you're needing the computer to do, if gaming is the objective then server motherboards probably aren't the answer.
supermicro isn't exactly among the cheapest of vendors, they mostly sell server grade stuff and offer a long ass guarantee, that ain't cheap, even compared to HEDT parts
it's a server grade stuff with enterprise-tier networking, it can easily be most expensive of those all
HEDT seems to be making a comeback, curious how it holds up against some of the epyc chips.
@@ChrisM541how many times are you going to spam this dude? Go back to UserBenchmark and leave us alone lmfao
Who other than AMD is making an HEDT part except for the companies making these MBs?
You know why MSI is sitting this out? It's too niche. It's not enough business to make them money. Why do you think Intel and Nvidia dropped the HEDT market?
It's nice and all AMD is doing this, most likely because they have die that won't work for EPYC which is a lot more demanding especially for the IOD, but it's not going to make AMD money, in fact they'll probably lose money on it which is why they skipped HEDT for Zen 3. And this gets back to a point I've never validated but most likely true, when a person buys TR HEDT, most likely they have hardware they're trying to add to these system, like different add on PCIe adapters which is the only reason you need those extra PCIe lanes since any slot is STILL at max X16. Just a wild guess but I imagine there's often issues that come up and the consumer needs help trying to figure out how to get things to work and they turn to AMD for support. But HEDT isn't WS and it's not something AMD is obligated to offer personal support for getting systems working for each person. So, a person buys HEDT and has an expectation of support, but that's why you buy a PRO system which companies that make PRO hardware typically have support packages just like in the world of server.
And even in the world of adapters for PCIe, even this is dying out. There used to be a lot of RAID controllers produced, but software RAID is typically replacing RAID controllers, so anything beyond say an PCIe gen4 NVMe X16 adapter which is basically connecting 4 disks straight to the PCIe lanes is becoming more rare.
AMD CAN make money on TR PRO WS because it costs more and probably sold with support packages. But HEDT? No, and as desktop becomes more powerful the need for HEDT dies even more.
How would HEDT do vs. EPYC? I'd ask how does TR HEDT do against TR PRO. Server parts are binned to use less power. They don't clock as high. Power consumption is everything in the world of server.
@@I_enjoy_some_things That moron ranted SO HARD on Gamers Nexus's video covering the announcement of TR 7000. I stopped counting after having seen some 20 comments. I'm starting to suspect he's a paid actor.
@@johndoh5182 MSI pulled out because they know not even The Braindead will touch Threadripper 7000. Why? -
--> Because everyone knows AMD 100% royally shafted their entire non-pro HEDT userbase with that TRX40 insanity !!!
--> Threadripper 7000 HEDT will, obviously, be a huge failure.
Check out that Gigabyte Threadripper MB - only THREE(!!!) PCIe slots and severely limited IO - and thats with PCIE Gen 5 ffs....now check out the 4 year old PCIe Gen 4 TRX40 Asus Zenith II Extreme - night and day difference. Even MB manufacturers are, rightly, out to destroy AMD's TR 7000 series.
Intel did not drop HEDT. That's what Xeon W is
WRX90 are clearly the best boards to watch youtube videos on. Could be a good investment for browsing the internets
Be sure you plug the power supplies into independent circuits on the off chance you blow your breaker... cause they went there.
As a Naval electrician, I don't think most homes/apartments have each outlet with it's own circuit. I think they tie them all together into the same breaker. But, what do I know? Like I said, I'm only an electrician on the Navy side. lol
Some circuits share a breaker, but they don't all do.
@@Bonqiqi Typically your high power consuming electrical appliances, like your fridge, electrical oven and so on, should be on a separate circuit.
@@LaughingSkull451 Yikes, you're an electrician but don't know the difference between it's (it is) and its (possessive)?
@@vdochev Fridges almost never have a dedicated circuit because they are designed to use less than 800 watts at peak.
Electrical ovens almost-invariably use a 220V circuit, irrelevant to the discussion.
Most codes require microwave ovens to have a dedicated circuit.
I would love more design like this in the gamer market. So tired of child toy aesthetics.
Agreed. Curse all kiddies.
I think the Asus ProArt boards look pretty professional.
@@ShroudedWolf51 ...except they had to ruin it with that "Built for pros" text on the I/O shroud. At least the exhaust fan should cover it, I guess.
Definitely in agreement there. Mainstream motherboards for ATX gaming systems have the worst marketing.
The Asrock LiveMixer looks down, shamed and embarrassed by your callous comment.
The longer I play around in homelab'ing, the more lanes and enterprise NVME I find myself wanting in a platform. Loving the server-grade I/O on most of these new boards!
"5090 Cinderblock Edition" Makes me want to get some of them red I-beam case kits, and build a tower that looks like an unfinished skyscraper, so I have just the build for it! Best of all, it could fit these huge motherboards easily!
It was the detailed board diagram and feature/component videos that originally caught me attention to this channel. Always glad to see this kind of content.
I have an older supermicro (Xeon 2600 v3/v4 lga2011-3) ATX board with dual sockets. They tend to be good about offering ATX options where others don’t.
These boards are nuts.
You know, I'd expect tests with a Supermicro board. These systems are for workstations and stability is king and Supermicro is the first brand that I would think of when stability is needed.
As more appears on the I/O back plate, the two things that should appear on all motherboard I/O back plates are the back up battery and the clear bios jumpers/switch, as these often are places in such ridiculous places you have to dismantle your build either to remove the battery or use the jumper/switch to reset the bios to default should the system fail such that you cannot access the bios via the keyboard and monitor.
Some of the newer consumer boards that have connectors at the back also have the battery exposed at the back.
Those should have switches on the I/O! But yes, you are right, you should be able to access any component independently without having to take anything else off/out.
@@benisroodany component? Didn't have that since I used a system built on a s100 baseboard 😂
I think generally just removing one or two cards is sufficient to reach the battery, which is not a big deal to do once every 10 years when it runs out, but I definitely agree on having a clear CMOS button on the mobo rear I/O.
Honestly I'd be happy just having stuff like that on a spot that won't get covered by cards. If you're busting your BIOS so often you need to clear it that often, you're probably as well running it with the case side/front plate removed anyway, and keeping it away from the outside of the case helps stop butterfingers (or curious fingers) from doing the oops and wrecking what could be carefully-tuned settings.
i know i'll never have the money to spend on a threadripper setup, but a boy can dream!
I'm fully expecting to see a slot in our Robot Overlords' chests for housing an Nvidia 5090 Cinder Block edition. Rumor has it that the downclocked ones will reveal themselves if you rub their chests and the die mark comes off.
Finally someone is acknowledging the 5090 CB edition!
Jokes aside I do want to upgrade my TR 2950 but the fact that nobody is announcing prices does concern me, probably I will not be able to afford any of this and go back to regular cpus for work (Especially after this whole year of strikes in the film industry).
WRX90 EVO, definitely... A Subaru WRX and a Mitsubishi EVO came together and made a motherboard.. Who would have thought...
Remember back in the late 90's- mid 2000's when most consumer motherboards all came with five expansion slots at the very least? Flash-forward to today, and you're lucky to get four slots while paying a outrageous mark-up on most enthusiast boards.
Gigabyte rolling in with way fewer slots than some B550 boards while likely costing at least 3x as much.
Almost Nobody uses them anymore
There's definitely less need for them and less people using them so it's understandable, but I still hate to see boards with barely any PCIe slots. Back in the day you'd need a sound card and in the 90s you might have a 2D GPU alongside a Voodoo for 3D. Nowadays everything is built into the mobo, including wifi sometimes, so expansion is only needed for a discrete GPU and maybe capture card or some niche card you might need.
But back then you had expansion boards for everything because they ran proprietary/odd cables. My flatbed scanner was SCSI and came with a card. Both my printers were LPR so I needed an extra card because the board only had one. My TV tuner was on a separate card. My sound card was separate. Today all that god-awful junk either no longer exist, is USB or is build into the motherboard.
Today most people don't even use internal grabber cards. Basically after the GPU the rest are just for raiser cards for more NVMe slots.
@@andersjjensen But being able to upgrade your IO or processing capabilities beyond 2 cards without needing more than 6-8 cores is still valuable. For example, if you want more USB cards to pass through to virtual machines, faster Ethernet for your home server, multiple graphics cards for AI/ML workloads or again, PCIE passthrough.
Seeing so many modern motherboards ditch more than 2 PCIe slots (one of which runs at a quarter of the bandwidth it should) in favor of even more NVMe drives that could be used in PCIe slots instead, it's frustrating for people who want to have those capabilities in their computer.
Of course, Threadripper systems are quite expensive for just having more PCIe cards to plug in since you're also paying for the core count and memory bandwidth/capacity, but this is still a problem on consumer boards. I'd love to either see lower end threadripper CPUs and motherboards that cater to the same price range at Ryzen, but for this audience of users instead, or just an upgrade to Ryzen's IO capabilities, on all CPUs, and have the motherboard manufacturers finally use their insane markups to provide consumers with beneficial features like more expansion options.
I know a couple of folk with TR, and i swear they've never been happier with a PC since dvd drives became a thing, stupidly deliriously happy....
can definitely tell that some of the design choices/limitations set on TRX50/90 is meant to make sure they don't cut into epyc sales.
Hardly anyone bought TR to begin with. I have no idea who their audience is. Most business go with Xeons.
Threadripper has always been a balancing act of giving people more than Ryzen while not letting those lovely Epyc margins get away. I was genuinely surprised non-Pro models came back.
They went away because they didn't sell, and neither will these. It's a product that has no real market anymore. @@benjaminoechsli1941
Nice thing about Intel Sapphire Rapids is that the W790 board is one platform for both 2400 and 3400 CPUs. So even if you "invest" in a high-end motherboard, you can get a more budget CPU and upgrade it later.
Wish AMD's PRO platform would support both CPU series
9:37 it is beyond me how motherboard manufacturers space the PCIe slots so poorly that you cannot plug in 4x 2-slot GPUs.
Oh honey, they all there for just GPUs lol.
@@katzicaelI'm not sure if this is sarcastic or not because either way it's wrong.
If you're being sincere, they obviously can't all be for GPUs because some of the slots will be blocked by GPUs, and a tweak in spacing would increase the number of multi slot cards you could attach even with the same slot count and board size.
If you're being sarcastic, a lot of the connectivity for high performance systems these days is devoted to multi GPU systems for GPGPU, and while there are plenty of single slot cards that are borderline essential in HEDT/HPC, that slot layout means you couldn't even fit those in between more than 2-3 GPUs anyway, again despite there being enough raw physical space and exposed lanes to do it with a different layout.
@@bosstowndynamics5488Waterblocks
@@bosstowndynamics5488But if you look at the actual layout of say, the ASUS TRX50-SAGE, it does have the first two slots spaced at 2X. So we're talking about extreme examples where you would need more 2X slot spacing and at that, the motherboard becomes ridiculously large or, like said, you run out of spacing for all other PCIE expansion. Most use cases don't require more than 2 graphics cards per board and if they do, you're using risers and custom chassis for the GPUs anyways.
@@RutgersSieve Don't have the screenshot in front of me but there's one of the single slot spaced areas where moving it over one would increase the number of 2 slot cards you could fit. It's also worth noting that the number of single slot cards you could fit in this board alongside a twin 3 slot card setup would be larger with a different configuration as well.
This is exciting because it means more 3 and 5 series Threadrippers on the used market
They will be so abused though...
Don't forget about vendor locked examples! Some of TR 5000 cpu's locked to dedicated oem motherboard and will not boot on other boards!!! Be very careful before you buy!! If CPU was installed in Lenovo workstation and now on sale standalone - this is very expensive brick.
@@benisroodIt's a workstation CPU. CPUs already have such a low failure rate relative to other parts. They'll be absolutely fine
Makes sense. SKYNET is going to need kickass hardware to run on.
I'd urge people not to buy the ASUS variant. I currently use the threadripper pro 3955WX, and I went with the ASUS sage WRX80 board. It was great, until the ipmi failed. I RMA'd it, where they claimed there was damage to the board that didn't match the photos I took before I sent it. They then shipped it back via fedex, without signature and it got stolen. I didn't get an insurance payout because there was no signature required and ASUS never gave me the option. I lost one of my first professional video editing clients because of ASUS. I use the Asrock board now and it's better plus it has TB4.
Can confirm. Asus boards are trash. I had Asus Tuff mobo for amd ryzen. Both were DOA. I got an Asus WRX80 sage for my threadripper build. It will randomly not work, usb ports will die, it has shaken my confidence in Asus.
I need this. I don't need this. But I need this.
Can't wait to see the benchmarks for these cpus
De8auer was ahead of the game convincing lian Li to add a second power supply spot to the o11d
I'll never buy these but it's cool to see what's on offer at the highend
I wish ASUS would publish more info about their WRX90 board, especially the size. I'm hoping it will fit in a Fractal Torrent (surely it will). My guess is that it would be 12"x12", about the same as the WRX80.
Should be SSI-EEB like the Asus WRX80E-SAGE
It doesn't surprise me that Gigabyte is emphasizing their fancy PCI-e lock, considering their 30 and 40 series graphics cards have that known defect where the lock tab cracks, breaking a trace and making the card useless.
Then they decline your RMA!
Ironically, happens on the AERO cards so it's no surprise they put that overbuilt lock on the AERO D Threadripper.
Was actually planning to buy the 4090 Aero but then word of their horrible design and failure to resolve it via RMA started going around. Ended up going with an Asus card instead.
I'll never buy a Gigabyte product after that nonsense - it's one thing to screw up and make it right; it's another to screw up and blame your customers, leaving them with a $1800 paper weight.
I want an old-fashioned green motherboard with white connectors. With a clean and lean design. No fans. I'd also much prefer to have an APU on a threadripper board, simply because I'd much rather have the memory bandwidth for an integrated GPU. And an IGPU that is fed from 4 high-end DDR5 ram sticks should be able to throw in some decent performance.
5:46 256GB, DDR5, 4800, ECC, With no CL listed on the product page for $3,200.00. My guess would be it's in the low to mid 40s.
11:24 Blazing (Gen5x4) > Hyper (Gen4x4)
Edit: Steve's frustration is, stupid names (marketing) attached to real stats.
15:45 You could add, onboard hardware based video capture, between the Input and the output of this theory.
17:12 I had to buy a USB to COM adapter for my workstation, because my Smart UPS couldn't connect to its own management software with the supplied USB cable. COM ports rule.
18:27 Steve is 100% correct, I/O is the most important purchasing decision, but the average person does not know the division of compute, storage or bandwidth (IOPS) for their application. Follow the bits and throw money at the bottlenecks. After upgrading every bottleneck, you realize you've completely rebuilt your system and the old one is in pieces at your feet.
I wish I could upvote these wise words a thousand times.
I buy my Quadkit for 300€ Kingston Fury Renegade 6000 CL32 (incl.TAX) 64GB is ok for me.
3 sec ago team, let's watch together! Excited for the return of powerful hardware I can't afford
Blazing: Gen5x4, Hyper: Gen4x4 (shown at 11:55 and 11:59)
I missed HEDT, these things are mesmerizing to look at
14:41 😂😂😂 you heckin got me with the cinder block 😂😂😂
i'm getting flashbacks to when i had the 1950x shortly after launch. spent ~1 hour trying to get the damn cpu socket to close right and apply the right pressure to the pins. and even when i got it all seated correctly, it was a constant troubleshooting game. so many random issues lol. mainly, the ram not working right and leading to a blue screen. fun times.
The only problem I ever had with my 1920x was one of the RAM slots was soldered wrong, and even then that mysteriously fixed itself during a test rebuild (I wasn't maxing the RAM anyway so I just used different slots initially)
always great when broken hardware fixes itself somehow lol. @@bosstowndynamics5488
very colourful! I like
In the market for a no frills rock solid MB, please review the SuperMicro.
Lol "But one of them is 'Blazing,' the other is 'Hyper." is one of the best thing I've ever heard from this channel.
I miss my CoolerMaster Stacker case and my two power supplies setup. Good old times.
The Ryzen Pro motherboards in some of our work HEDT boards were enough, these look absolutely mad. Can't wait to try and justify getting some for our designers ;-)
All depends on pricing. If this can replace my server AND my gaming machine, awesome. I can throw my domain stuff in VMs, send those through one NIC and my main OS on its own NIC and use iLO/IPMI/whatever when I’m away from it. I still have a hard time saying “why not just build a server” but some people want it all in one box
Something like a 13900k can be a server for most small uses. Outside of businesses, there is no reason for HEDT to exist anymore.
@@drunkhusband6257 Those boards don't support what I need. Most of these boards will naturally support S.L.I like all WRX80 boards do & most TRX40 do. They also support 4 way crossfire too. I cannot find a newer Consumer Intel board that still supports S.L.I past Z690.
Because SLI is dead, there is no reason to have it at all anymore. The only reason SLI existed was for gaming....so what would you need threadripper for?@@kevinerbs2778
@@drunkhusband6257 E-cores, only 2 memory channels, and only 16 PCIe lanes. You must be drunk. A 13900K is a toy, it has no connectivity, it performs like a toy when compared to Threadripper, and HEDT has a LOT of reason to exist for consumers who want powerful builds. Now more than ever.
nVidia RTX 5090 cinderblock edition had me rolling. XD
Aside from the awesomeness of the HEDTs.... I love the dry humour. I am editing while listening to this and caught myself chuckling out loud... eg blazing and hyper and the 5090 cinderblock edition...
Did like the ASUS boards although after their AM5 quality issues I'd gone off their brand.
Gonna keep an eye on this. I am moving to more workload heavy use as I am moving more and more from photography to videography, which has led me into the world of blender and vfx.
I was waiting for the 8950x but one of these 7960 or 7970s might be the go depending how badly we are going to get gouged out here in Australia and if I can play Apex Legends on it (I only ever play 1 game at a time and never single player games).
Having read through the comments and commented on a few: MSI giving up on AMD should be the real story here. More investigation on this please!
Me and friend have the same x570 MSI board and have been given the big old middle finger from them. His USB ports cant do VR and mine can't do the rated XMP profile for my QVL'd memory. I haven't tried to do it lately, but the boards are definitely on the shittier tier. Big Fuck It energy.
@@j_ferguson I've had my x570 gaming plus for a couple years now, it's been rock solid, my only complaint is that the second M.2 is PCI 3 and doesn't support direct storage. I have found I have to set my memory speed manually instead of using XMP. (using 3600) Prior to that I ran MSI boards on AMD CPUs and Nvidia GPUs almost exclusively. If MSI is backing away from AMD (or vice versa) it will hurt the entire industry, and I will probably be done with them. the appeal of MSI was cross compatibility between parts, you always see MSI gpus in Frankenstein rigs for a reason, they just work. The software, though not perfect, was usually better than other brands, such as dragon center (though I have my complaints about that). And for those of us who only used MSI parts, you could expect your rig to work when you were done building it, or atleast have support documentation to help. Idk what changed over the last couple years, but they have not been the same since the pandemic.
@@grtninja I tried setting the timings and frequency manually without luck. The worse is I don't have a clear CMOS button and the battery is beneath the GPU. I really hate having to touch two pins together. The fact my friend never had buggy hardware replaced and or compensated for sticks with me
I don't understand Threadripper anymore. It used to be that OOMF that you didn't get with consumer grade chips, aimed at people who needed a lot of cores, maybe more PCI-E lanes, working on tech stuff, perhaps programming or editing. Anything that could use all that power.
But now I wonder how good they are, in price-value ratio, compared to a high end consumer chip that already have plenty of cores of which most of the things don't make use of, generally speaking and also adding an EPYC chip, even if it's used/last gen so you don't pay as much. If any app would need more cores and could use all of it, wouldn't an EPYC be better despite perhaps slower cores?
EPYC is more expensive than you might think unless you go back 2-3 generations, and Zen 4 is, despite the negative press from the factory overclocked initial X parts, a substantial architectural improvement that means a lot less power per unit work done in addition to much better raw performance, and not all of the workloads being done on these systems are embarrassingly parallel so single core performance is still important in some cases.
More specifically, these systems are geared mostly towards small to medium businesses for a few key use cases:
1) For compute, people who need a lot of compute power in a single work station, for instance complex CAD, 3D animation, video processing or other more specialised workloads. The extra cost pales in comparison to getting work done faster and wasting less of your expensive specialist employee's time, so they get away with higher costs, although not as much as top tier pro level stuff since these tasks might not be as processor bound at this level
2) For IO - those PCIe lanes translate into much faster storage access, much faster networking (eg multiple 10GbE ports, even SFP fibre if you want) and much faster local data transfer eg media ingest. This is one of the main reasons a lot of these tech channels are really excited about the non-pro systems (LMG said a while ago theyve got a 29xx series Threadripper just to ingest footage, and Steve in this video was noting he can think of good ways to put those lanes to use). The diminishing returns above this point means that non-Pro TR hits a sweet spot for this use case in small and medium businesses
3) For GPGPU - if you aren't big enough to throw around EPYC servers with PCIe fabric, you want all your GPUs on the same system to be used by that system. This kind of ties in with 1, but it's more about the GPU side of things. This is the most likely case to be a candidate for an old EPYC server, but even in this case more CPU power is still nice to have and you might start hitting PCIe bandwidth bottlenecks with older PCIe generations (plus, to keep those GPUs fed you need a ton of networking and/or storage, see point 2).
Plus, there's a small but significant group of people who will buy these systems just as enthusiasts, and the latest and greatest is always going to have an appeal to that group that might encourage some of them to give their money directly to AMD and the OEMs rather than to the used market.
I do agree. Back when Intel was in the height of its stagnation, HEDT made much more sense, as you had to make the jump if you wanted more than 6 cores or so.
But now, the R9 and i9 Series are so strong, only the most hardcore enthusiast or professionals with really high requirements (or rates per hour) need these beautiful, monstrous motherboards.
I'm a CEO myself (run my own graphic design company), and it'll be a very long time before I need anything more than 16 cores
That's exactly what Threadripper is. And, regular chips don't even come close. "high end consumer" is an oxymoron. AM5 only has 2 memory channels, 16 PCIe lanes, and is limited to 16 cores. It's garbage and performs like garbage compared to Threadripper.
@@joshuastedford1670 You don't have to be a "hardcore enthusiast or professional" to want to do common stuff like Blender or Unreal Engine game dev or AI with much better times. R9 and i9 series are not strong, they are heavily locked down and they aren't fast. Being the top of garbage isn't an achievement.
I'm so ready for these! My 2950X workstation has been wonderful and now will have a worthy successor.
Do you remember what AMD did to every TRX40 user? Do you remember that infamous "long term support promise"?
Same. Was waiting for a successor to my 2950X, which is really dated at this point (yeah, a bit more IO and memory than desktop Ryzen, but CPU performance itself is meh compared to desktop Ryzen).
Supermicro's board names actually have very specific and clear meanings, it's just you need a decoder ring like AMD to understand them.
I imagine tech marketing execs see Steve in their nightmares.
Please do a LN2 XOC stream on the new Threadripper!!! I miss the LN2 streams
We might have something special in the works for that!
Threadripper WRX90 looks like a good product for doing AI learning with 8 single slot water cooled 4090s. I cant wait to see what motherboard Puget Systems is going to use. I think this is why 4090s are scarce and pricey even with the China the embargo on 4090s.
? 4090s cannot be nvlinked
@@Xamy- Quoting Tim Dettmers, "Generally, NVLink is not useful. NVLink is a high speed interconnect between GPUs. It is useful if you have a GPU cluster with +128 GPUs. Otherwise, it yields almost no benefits over standard PCIe transfers."
@@dyson9422 Doesn't NVLINK enable the cards to share memory? Or do current PCI E 4.0 x16 card configurations allow for memory sharing through PCIE? I'm just curious.
@@Xamy- already becoming an issue with some developers complaining about it & need more than 48Gbs of Vram.
These platforms are going to be insanely priced. Would love to have one for the performance, though. Where's the trx50 aorus master and evga trx50 dark? I know it's early but we can hope.
Its ana amzing time to build a homelab / server . So many great choices with efficient and powerful systems with flexible i/o
Yea regarding Supermicro, I was shocked the other day when I found a pretty old board they made that was looking a lot like the Steele series. It actually could have been from the Steele series, I can't remember atm. I didn't think they made such visually appealing boards at all.
I would buy the RTX 5090 cinderblock, because bigger means better. Or that's what ads on some kind of websites have taught me 🤔
I wish i had a need to build one of these, they sound awesome.
Steve your sarcasm is too halarious 😂
Ordering the Gigabyte one soon as it launches it's exactly what I wand in an HEDT board.
WRX and EVO in one, they just built the ultimate rally motherboard
One thing I'd like to see with these boards is PCIe bifurcation support testing.
Something as simple as an x16 card with 4 M.2 slots properly wroking would be good to see. You could go for something more spicy too, like a riser card that has 4 x4 PCIe slots on it, and a different device plugged into each.
It is interesting how TB4 (and by extension TB5) are no longer a thing.
Your continued satire among products which include better/higher numbering and better alpha/complicated characters is excellent. All manufacurers deserve a rip on that.
Nice to see Supermicro in the game; my first PC build was with a Supermicro MB for my Pentium 133. Quality motherboards IMO.
Big fan of Gigabyte continuing to put DisplayPort pass through on the Aero D series
Nice, the glasses look slick.
Sad to see MSI lacking on AMD. I've been almost all MSI since my first gaming PC and this month was the first upgrade to a (non-msi) XFX GPU (7800 XT) because the lack of MSI this gen
Love the way Der8auer is throwing a few € to Gamers Nexus paying for a wee sponsorship spot at the start of the video, how wholesome.
Oh he is making that money back.
@@mikezappulla4092he should, thermal grizzly make great stuffs. Woulda shotup some Conductonaut but heroin is cheaper
Who is he?
The JHL8540 thunderbolt controller to support video over thunderbolt would require the video source if not onboard video to provide the video. This is the reason for the DP input. Given intel attitudes on use of a separate cable, the port may lack thunderbolt markings, while the manual may be carefully crafted to imply non logo certified thunderbolt is in fact present.
The Threadripper prices are insane too. Especially in Canada. I currently need a new HEDT to replace my aging X99 6950X and I would like to go with Threadripper but it's just too expensive for what you get. So I'm probably going to wait and go with a R9-9900X 12-Core and 192GB memory. I do have an Intel W7-2495X Workstation here that I bought in 2023, which was $12000 CAD. I priced out the competing Threadripper and it was $20000 CAD. Intel needs a new proper affordable HEDT X399 or something with a $500 motherboard and $1000 CPU with quad channel memory and 32 PCIe5 lanes and up to 24 P-Cores.
It's cool to see Threadripper in normal motherboards rather than basically server motherboards.
Threadripper has never been in "server" motherboards.
He litterally showed his in the video
I’m genuinely interested in a Threadripper this go around. I’m just hoping for an mATX with IPMI, 10Gb (SFP would be nice, not holding my breath), and at least three full width PCIe 4.0 lanes. Then again… knowing the first hopeful spec I listed… probably not gonna happen.
Totally just speculating here, but I think the reason MSI isn't doing TRX/WRX boards is cause maybe they know AMD won't be supporting these platforms for very long? So they think "why bother with the R&D if we're only gonna sell a gen or two for a niche platform?" Just my thoughts.
Possibly. AMD promised long support for sTRX4, the predecessor, and then ended support after 1 generation, backstabbing everyone that bought one.
MSI has been making less and less AMD products over the years. Try to look for MSI RX 7000 and while it technically exists there's basically no units.
If that was criteria than they would slept through half of intel's launches. No, I think they play dangerous game. Cornering themselves like EVGA did and then had no other way than one out of game.
Threadripper isn't niche.
love the humor Steve, keep up the great work counting the letters and the numbers when they count being counted!
I really hope those Display Port in to Thunderbolt 4 out becomes way more common. Especially helps with a lot of thunderbolt displays such as the Pro Display XDR.
I never want to be the marketing people who have to name things that Steve reviews. You get nailed for the stupid names AND for the simple names!!! :)
Really want to see a SuperMicro WRX90 system with 8 memory slots and at least 5 full PCIe slots (couldn't care less for M.2 crap, that's what oculink/sas 4 (24gbps) is for). Supermicro boards have been great for the last 20+ years (shouts out to Tyan as well as another great board maker). for true workstation systems you do not want any additional functions you want the bare minimum and you want it to WORK. In reality, what I would love to see (due to the stupid pricing on threadripper pro cpu's) would be a full EATX (12x13 or whatever spec) Eypc board for a single cpu but with 12 channel memory support. You run out of memory bandwidth pretty damn fast when > 16-24 cores.
I bet it will be more affordable in comparison with ASUS, but what about overclocking and VRM cooling?
@@falsevacuum1988 with HEDT or more properly workstation class boards, overclocking is not an issue. You want 24x7x365 with rock solid stability. overclocking is for people who like to jump out of planes without parachutes. completely different market. :) Basically you're looking for full ECC data paths (ECC memory, as well as PCIexpress ECC checking); no or *very* limited m.2 (If you want this you use a slot and design your own solution, and in most cases it will probably be oculink or sas4/24gbps) the only 'on-board' that you may want is a sata connection for a dvd as media still comes that way. you want dual 10Gbit (redundancy) at a minimum (or better dual qsfp+ for 25/40gbit) plus IPMI for management. basically you want the full 80 lanes going to pcie slots, with the ~48 lanes for other I/O (which is more than enough for sas/oculink, chipset (usb, sata, etc), fast ethernet.
As for power, I've used supermicro & tyan boards since the 1990's. they all have been designed very well for power distribution for 24x7 use.
@@stevekristoff4365 I will build 7975wx pro + ??? board + 8x32 RAM (5600 if available) + AIO (i hope SIlverstone will adapt its SP5 variant). I want to see + 10% performance with PBO and watercooling. This tiny Supermicro VRM radiators doesn't look like PBO capable. Workload is scientific computations PLUS daily / gaming PC and (4090) rendering as hobby. I don't want to go dual PC (say 14700 PC+ Epyc server) - it will be more expensive and i don't have enough space.
It's kinda crazy that they're having to stuff so much IO into the (closely spaced) PCIe slots just to cater to the potential capabilities of the CPU (which are admittedly quite impressive).
I wasn't really paying attention to PC hardware the way I am now when Threadripper came to market originally, but these motherboards offer a truly impressive amount of connectivity.
One thing I'm wondering about, since I'm interested in VR and that uses a lot of USB ports for... well everything.
Why can't I find a USB host bus adapter card (PCIe to USB ports, internal headers or external Type A / Type C ports) that uses a PCIe 4.0 or 5.0 interface?
Every single one I can find on Amazon maxes out at using the PCIe 3.0 standard.
What I want to know is why is this the case when they could switch to using a newer revision of PCIe and either make a card that fits in a smaller PCIe slot or offer more bandwidth to the existing ports?
For instance, most of the "7 port" USB host cards that fit in a PCIe slot are limited to 5gbps overall bandwidth and a PCIe 3.0 X1 interface. There are occasional ones that use an X4 slot, those are better because they offer more bandwidth to be shared among all the ports.
But I never see any cards that offer 7 USB ports, at 5gbps each, that use a PCIe 4.0 or 5.0 interface to allow their fitment in an X1 slot or offer more overall bandwidth to the collection of ports (say upgrading them to USB 3.1 gen 1 ports at 10gbps each for all 7, using a PCIe 4.0 x4 interface).
Sure the card might be more expensive in that case, but there's surely a market for it, especially with the dawn of these Threadripper 5000 HEDT motherboards that have so many "physically X16, electrically who knows" slots with no single slot being of lower revision than PCIe 4.0.
Basically, the motherboards have the IO for it, so why can't I find a good HBA card that is capable of UTILIZING IT?
Maybe there needs to be reviews of non-GPU cards that fit in PCIe slots. Would pair well with reviews of the new HEDT cpus and motherboards that are coming out, at least, or so I think.
It’s ultra blazing Ti super fast. BACK TO YOU STEVE
Threadripper is a must have for gaming as other much cheaper platforms provides much less pcie lanes. One graphic card is 16 lanes so for usb4/thunderbolt and other usb and ofcourse several nvme in raid no lanes left.
all the asrock boards should still have the thunderbolt 5 pin header thingy. It is visible in one of the photos.
The Z790 Aero G has the same display port setup and it's for what you mentioned. Run a short cable from GPU to the display port in then USBC to a display. Can't wait for this stuff to hit market and reviews to start coming out, probably going to build myself a TRX50 workstation next year so I can finally have more PCIE slots and proper ECC support. AMD better not drop support this time around.
Those kryosheet heat transfer pads look interesting
I built a 3960X Threadripper system that I still use to this day ... and I won't be doing another. I don't trust AMD not to just axe this platform again, just like they did the TRX40 platform. And the support that I got from ASUS with my problems was non-existent. ASUS ... THEY JUST DIDN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THEIR CUSTOMERS.
Thanks Steve!
12:49 Came to the comments to see if Steve’s EVO “sounds like a Subaru” comment would have the WRX STi folks in here raging. 😂
The Viganyte board will be using that Displayport to do passthrough to thw usb4 port. I have the X570S Aero and it has the same setup.
Thats a beautiful board from Gigabyte, if Asus made the Formula series for threadripper, oooooh the possibilities ❤
OFC. i will buy it but hole Europe no Board to buy, sucks. Threadripper 7960X lay before me, but he have no Throne :(
Never had issues with gigabyte for my TR builds ever since the x399Gaming 7 . I moved away from TR and use EPYC for my workstations but maybe I'll switch back and I'll definitely go with gigabyte again. Their RGB software can eat sheet though.
This seems to be new territory for GN AFAIK. Thumbs up, I like(d) it! A workstation used for gaming? Sure, why not. It's really just a more powerful PC.
Just what I wanted. Threadripper 7000 motherboard news.
And here I thought the WRX80 version of the ASUS Sage Wifi that I use had a lot of power connectors with 1 24-pin, 2 8-pin 12-volt, 1 8-pin PCIe and 2 6-pin PCIe connectors. I guess ASUS just had to on-up themselves this round although the WRX80 was a 280 watt TDP and the WRX90 is 350.
That SlimSas and MCIO might replace our Sata connector one day