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I just wish that AM5 was more like these. Not having 2 or 3 x16 electrically wired slots is really detrimental of being able to run a small home server on older cost effective hardware (like a 16 port raid card or cheap extra nic for example).It means when you upgrade from AM5 to a new board in the future the am5 board might not be good as a router etc.
***STEVE*** Over the years, I have gone into the online store so many times. Unfortunately, I always stop when I reach the checkout. The U$ to CAN$ is a killer, especially when you add shipping on top! Is there any way that the store could have a Canadian 'warehouse,' with CAN$ pricing and shipping? I think GN would benefit. It may require you to put on your fair sales hat, but that's a problem I'm sure you could solve in spades. Maybe you could feel out the potential customer interest in a video question or poll? Remember Business 101, it's better to have a percentage of something, then 100% of nothing. And, the easiest methods of growth is through expansion! Thoughts?
Your new website design has really poor readability on the dates of articles. I don't think I would have seen them if I didn't expect there to be dates. The dark gray melds into the dark blue. A lighter gray would be much better, better yet would be something similar to the category box underneath the article.
@@GamersNexus Never seen Patrick Stone review PSU for a long time. Did he caught PTSD ( Pyro Traumatic Stress Disorder ) from the explosion of Gigabyte PSU back then ?
@@Chukijay Server boards typically have about 1/2 to 1/3rd the VRM and lean heavily on active cooling to keep the board from cooking. When it comes to efficiency and peak power, there simply is no comparison to a good HEDT board.
@@Chukijay Yes, i don't get the shoving of massive heatsinks on boards and their effectiveness. The cheap MSI B550 MPG board i have has 4 giant pieces of metal on it, even though most companies put them on boards to justify doubling-tripling the price of the board. As i've been watching an older vid from GN about top priced motherboards not even including a debug LED screen, i start wondering why there are boards that for little to almost no advantage over mid, even entry level boards they cost 3 times or 4 times more. Why would you even pay 500$ for a motherboard nowadays? The board i have has BIOS flashback, 4.0 x16 PCI, digital audio, a decent VRM, 6 SATA, 2 M.2, front and rear USB 3.2, onboard lighting, diagnosis LEDs etc. Why would anybody pay 400$ more for a "top" board? Just for WiFi and 10Gb ethernet?
HEDT motherboards have always been one of my favorite things in the PC world, they are surely the craziest pieces of hardware there is. I remember how there were whole articles written about how beautiful and artistic HEDT motherboards are. They are truly pieces of hardware art. Consumer motherboards are nothing compared to the craziness of HEDT motherboards in every aspect possible.
Agree: I‘m still struggling if I should sell my Gigabyte Designare EX X399 Threadripper Combo with 1920x. I still keep it as a nice Test platform to test hardware, OS, ZFS layouts etc. gigabyte support just sent me a Beta BIOS with Resize BAR option :)
@@weisstdudochnicht1 I can’t bring myself to sell my ASRock x99 Taichi hedt board. I love the aesthetic and functionality of the board. It released later in the x99 cycle and already has multiple M.2 slots and other bells and whistles. Even though it isnt as crazy as many modern TR boards, still pretty awesome. Been thinking about framing it and just pin it to the wall like its an art piece.
In my experience, the backplate serves more of a protective role. These boards are absolutely packed, and you will find a lot of surface mount devices on the back that can be damaged by standoffs during install.
I really love how the Asus PRO Series boards look. It's got the clean, function-focused design of server boards (esp. in the heatsinks) with the fancy black PCBs of consumer boards. Maybe I'll get one in a few years when these systems depreciate in value.
@@billygrennek5299 Ooh yeah, those definitely look nice! But given the prices, if I really do want a clean-looking GPU, I can just buy a regular ol' card and slap a minimalistic waterblock on it.
@@benisrood That's partly why I'd rather wait. To see if Asus actually improves over time, and to make sure the boards hold up well. And since I'd be buying the board used, I wouldn't be directly giving money to Asus.
You'll be waiting for awhile, HEDT platforms barely depreciate in value even after end of life. Take intel's x99,x299 OEM mobos for example, they're still pretty expensive on the used market and TRX50/WRX90 will be significantly more expensive.
That supermicro board looks super interesting. I've been dipping my toes into server hardware lately, and the capability of it is truly amazing. From the looks of it, the supermicro board might be one of the cheapest of the bunch, but also one of the best.
The board looks like every supermicro board for the last 20yrs ha. Just depends what you're needing the computer to do, if gaming is the objective then server motherboards probably aren't the answer.
supermicro isn't exactly among the cheapest of vendors, they mostly sell server grade stuff and offer a long ass guarantee, that ain't cheap, even compared to HEDT parts
I bet Wendell is going to have a field day with these. Although I don't have any use for HEDT (yet... you know how that goes) just seeing how cool these things are is nice. Often you get the impression that manufacturers really don't care about consumers but HEDT boards almost make it look like that's not the case.
The difference you've picked up on comes down to the fact that gaming focused PCs are, for want of a better word, toys. Expensive yes, but still toys. HEDT on the other hand is a tool to be bought for business/making money. It is a completely different mindset.
@@monkohm6918Gaming focused PCs, perhaps, yes. But people use even consumer PCs for far more tasks. For me, I use a repurposed workstation (which is the price of a consumer PC) as a home server. And those tasks are far more involved and important than that of a toy, they involve more learning, gaining knowledge, and yes, having fun also.
"5090 Cinderblock Edition" Makes me want to get some of them red I-beam case kits, and build a tower that looks like an unfinished skyscraper, so I have just the build for it! Best of all, it could fit these huge motherboards easily!
As a Naval electrician, I don't think most homes/apartments have each outlet with it's own circuit. I think they tie them all together into the same breaker. But, what do I know? Like I said, I'm only an electrician on the Navy side. lol
@@vdochev Fridges almost never have a dedicated circuit because they are designed to use less than 800 watts at peak. Electrical ovens almost-invariably use a 220V circuit, irrelevant to the discussion. Most codes require microwave ovens to have a dedicated circuit.
Who other than AMD is making an HEDT part except for the companies making these MBs? You know why MSI is sitting this out? It's too niche. It's not enough business to make them money. Why do you think Intel and Nvidia dropped the HEDT market? It's nice and all AMD is doing this, most likely because they have die that won't work for EPYC which is a lot more demanding especially for the IOD, but it's not going to make AMD money, in fact they'll probably lose money on it which is why they skipped HEDT for Zen 3. And this gets back to a point I've never validated but most likely true, when a person buys TR HEDT, most likely they have hardware they're trying to add to these system, like different add on PCIe adapters which is the only reason you need those extra PCIe lanes since any slot is STILL at max X16. Just a wild guess but I imagine there's often issues that come up and the consumer needs help trying to figure out how to get things to work and they turn to AMD for support. But HEDT isn't WS and it's not something AMD is obligated to offer personal support for getting systems working for each person. So, a person buys HEDT and has an expectation of support, but that's why you buy a PRO system which companies that make PRO hardware typically have support packages just like in the world of server. And even in the world of adapters for PCIe, even this is dying out. There used to be a lot of RAID controllers produced, but software RAID is typically replacing RAID controllers, so anything beyond say an PCIe gen4 NVMe X16 adapter which is basically connecting 4 disks straight to the PCIe lanes is becoming more rare. AMD CAN make money on TR PRO WS because it costs more and probably sold with support packages. But HEDT? No, and as desktop becomes more powerful the need for HEDT dies even more. How would HEDT do vs. EPYC? I'd ask how does TR HEDT do against TR PRO. Server parts are binned to use less power. They don't clock as high. Power consumption is everything in the world of server.
@@I_enjoy_some_things That moron ranted SO HARD on Gamers Nexus's video covering the announcement of TR 7000. I stopped counting after having seen some 20 comments. I'm starting to suspect he's a paid actor.
@@johndoh5182 MSI pulled out because they know not even The Braindead will touch Threadripper 7000. Why? - --> Because everyone knows AMD 100% royally shafted their entire non-pro HEDT userbase with that TRX40 insanity !!! --> Threadripper 7000 HEDT will, obviously, be a huge failure. Check out that Gigabyte Threadripper MB - only THREE(!!!) PCIe slots and severely limited IO - and thats with PCIE Gen 5 ffs....now check out the 4 year old PCIe Gen 4 TRX40 Asus Zenith II Extreme - night and day difference. Even MB manufacturers are, rightly, out to destroy AMD's TR 7000 series.
It was the detailed board diagram and feature/component videos that originally caught me attention to this channel. Always glad to see this kind of content.
Remember back in the late 90's- mid 2000's when most consumer motherboards all came with five expansion slots at the very least? Flash-forward to today, and you're lucky to get four slots while paying a outrageous mark-up on most enthusiast boards.
There's definitely less need for them and less people using them so it's understandable, but I still hate to see boards with barely any PCIe slots. Back in the day you'd need a sound card and in the 90s you might have a 2D GPU alongside a Voodoo for 3D. Nowadays everything is built into the mobo, including wifi sometimes, so expansion is only needed for a discrete GPU and maybe capture card or some niche card you might need.
But back then you had expansion boards for everything because they ran proprietary/odd cables. My flatbed scanner was SCSI and came with a card. Both my printers were LPR so I needed an extra card because the board only had one. My TV tuner was on a separate card. My sound card was separate. Today all that god-awful junk either no longer exist, is USB or is build into the motherboard. Today most people don't even use internal grabber cards. Basically after the GPU the rest are just for raiser cards for more NVMe slots.
I have an older supermicro (Xeon 2600 v3/v4 lga2011-3) ATX board with dual sockets. They tend to be good about offering ATX options where others don’t. These boards are nuts.
I'm fully expecting to see a slot in our Robot Overlords' chests for housing an Nvidia 5090 Cinder Block edition. Rumor has it that the downclocked ones will reveal themselves if you rub their chests and the die mark comes off.
Me and friend have the same x570 MSI board and have been given the big old middle finger from them. His USB ports cant do VR and mine can't do the rated XMP profile for my QVL'd memory. I haven't tried to do it lately, but the boards are definitely on the shittier tier. Big Fuck It energy.
@@j_ferguson I've had my x570 gaming plus for a couple years now, it's been rock solid, my only complaint is that the second M.2 is PCI 3 and doesn't support direct storage. I have found I have to set my memory speed manually instead of using XMP. (using 3600) Prior to that I ran MSI boards on AMD CPUs and Nvidia GPUs almost exclusively. If MSI is backing away from AMD (or vice versa) it will hurt the entire industry, and I will probably be done with them. the appeal of MSI was cross compatibility between parts, you always see MSI gpus in Frankenstein rigs for a reason, they just work. The software, though not perfect, was usually better than other brands, such as dragon center (though I have my complaints about that). And for those of us who only used MSI parts, you could expect your rig to work when you were done building it, or atleast have support documentation to help. Idk what changed over the last couple years, but they have not been the same since the pandemic.
@@grtninja I tried setting the timings and frequency manually without luck. The worse is I don't have a clear CMOS button and the battery is beneath the GPU. I really hate having to touch two pins together. The fact my friend never had buggy hardware replaced and or compensated for sticks with me
Finally someone is acknowledging the 5090 CB edition! Jokes aside I do want to upgrade my TR 2950 but the fact that nobody is announcing prices does concern me, probably I will not be able to afford any of this and go back to regular cpus for work (Especially after this whole year of strikes in the film industry).
Nice thing about Intel Sapphire Rapids is that the W790 board is one platform for both 2400 and 3400 CPUs. So even if you "invest" in a high-end motherboard, you can get a more budget CPU and upgrade it later. Wish AMD's PRO platform would support both CPU series
Threadripper has always been a balancing act of giving people more than Ryzen while not letting those lovely Epyc margins get away. I was genuinely surprised non-Pro models came back.
Don't forget about vendor locked examples! Some of TR 5000 cpu's locked to dedicated oem motherboard and will not boot on other boards!!! Be very careful before you buy!! If CPU was installed in Lenovo workstation and now on sale standalone - this is very expensive brick.
@@katzicaelI'm not sure if this is sarcastic or not because either way it's wrong. If you're being sincere, they obviously can't all be for GPUs because some of the slots will be blocked by GPUs, and a tweak in spacing would increase the number of multi slot cards you could attach even with the same slot count and board size. If you're being sarcastic, a lot of the connectivity for high performance systems these days is devoted to multi GPU systems for GPGPU, and while there are plenty of single slot cards that are borderline essential in HEDT/HPC, that slot layout means you couldn't even fit those in between more than 2-3 GPUs anyway, again despite there being enough raw physical space and exposed lanes to do it with a different layout.
@@bosstowndynamics5488But if you look at the actual layout of say, the ASUS TRX50-SAGE, it does have the first two slots spaced at 2X. So we're talking about extreme examples where you would need more 2X slot spacing and at that, the motherboard becomes ridiculously large or, like said, you run out of spacing for all other PCIE expansion. Most use cases don't require more than 2 graphics cards per board and if they do, you're using risers and custom chassis for the GPUs anyways.
@@elus89 Don't have the screenshot in front of me but there's one of the single slot spaced areas where moving it over one would increase the number of 2 slot cards you could fit. It's also worth noting that the number of single slot cards you could fit in this board alongside a twin 3 slot card setup would be larger with a different configuration as well.
I want an old-fashioned green motherboard with white connectors. With a clean and lean design. No fans. I'd also much prefer to have an APU on a threadripper board, simply because I'd much rather have the memory bandwidth for an integrated GPU. And an IGPU that is fed from 4 high-end DDR5 ram sticks should be able to throw in some decent performance.
All depends on pricing. If this can replace my server AND my gaming machine, awesome. I can throw my domain stuff in VMs, send those through one NIC and my main OS on its own NIC and use iLO/IPMI/whatever when I’m away from it. I still have a hard time saying “why not just build a server” but some people want it all in one box
@@drunkhusband6257 Those boards don't support what I need. Most of these boards will naturally support S.L.I like all WRX80 boards do & most TRX40 do. They also support 4 way crossfire too. I cannot find a newer Consumer Intel board that still supports S.L.I past Z690.
Because SLI is dead, there is no reason to have it at all anymore. The only reason SLI existed was for gaming....so what would you need threadripper for?@@kevinerbs2778
@@drunkhusband6257 E-cores, only 2 memory channels, and only 16 PCIe lanes. You must be drunk. A 13900K is a toy, it has no connectivity, it performs like a toy when compared to Threadripper, and HEDT has a LOT of reason to exist for consumers who want powerful builds. Now more than ever.
The Threadripper prices are insane too. Especially in Canada. I currently need a new HEDT to replace my aging X99 6950X and I would like to go with Threadripper but it's just too expensive for what you get. So I'm probably going to wait and go with a R9-9900X 12-Core and 192GB memory. I do have an Intel W7-2495X Workstation here that I bought in 2023, which was $12000 CAD. I priced out the competing Threadripper and it was $20000 CAD. Intel needs a new proper affordable HEDT X399 or something with a $500 motherboard and $1000 CPU with quad channel memory and 32 PCIe5 lanes and up to 24 P-Cores.
That's an awesome question. Hearting this to hopefully push it up to help others, as I bet that's a common point of confusion. They do not need to be the same spec. The motherboard ultimately won't know the difference. You'd still want the secondary PSU to be of at least enough power to hold a whole system load in the event the motherboard manufacturer designed it poorly (or if something goes wrong), but they don't need to be identical. For example, if you have a 1200W Seasonic PSU and a 1000W Corsair PSU, the board won't know any different. Holdup time in a power surge might have an impact, but a system this expensive should be behind a UPS anyway.
@@GamersNexus Heck, my 850W Ryzen 9 system is behind a UPS. But that's mostly because the current in old Eastern Europe houses is very shaky and this is a work machine. In general, any work machine your livelihood depends on should be behind a UPS. That's a critical infrastructure *for you* that you need 7 9's of uptime on 😂
Really want to see a SuperMicro WRX90 system with 8 memory slots and at least 5 full PCIe slots (couldn't care less for M.2 crap, that's what oculink/sas 4 (24gbps) is for). Supermicro boards have been great for the last 20+ years (shouts out to Tyan as well as another great board maker). for true workstation systems you do not want any additional functions you want the bare minimum and you want it to WORK. In reality, what I would love to see (due to the stupid pricing on threadripper pro cpu's) would be a full EATX (12x13 or whatever spec) Eypc board for a single cpu but with 12 channel memory support. You run out of memory bandwidth pretty damn fast when > 16-24 cores.
@@falsevacuum1988 with HEDT or more properly workstation class boards, overclocking is not an issue. You want 24x7x365 with rock solid stability. overclocking is for people who like to jump out of planes without parachutes. completely different market. :) Basically you're looking for full ECC data paths (ECC memory, as well as PCIexpress ECC checking); no or *very* limited m.2 (If you want this you use a slot and design your own solution, and in most cases it will probably be oculink or sas4/24gbps) the only 'on-board' that you may want is a sata connection for a dvd as media still comes that way. you want dual 10Gbit (redundancy) at a minimum (or better dual qsfp+ for 25/40gbit) plus IPMI for management. basically you want the full 80 lanes going to pcie slots, with the ~48 lanes for other I/O (which is more than enough for sas/oculink, chipset (usb, sata, etc), fast ethernet. As for power, I've used supermicro & tyan boards since the 1990's. they all have been designed very well for power distribution for 24x7 use.
@@stevekristoff4365 I will build 7975wx pro + ??? board + 8x32 RAM (5600 if available) + AIO (i hope SIlverstone will adapt its SP5 variant). I want to see + 10% performance with PBO and watercooling. This tiny Supermicro VRM radiators doesn't look like PBO capable. Workload is scientific computations PLUS daily / gaming PC and (4090) rendering as hobby. I don't want to go dual PC (say 14700 PC+ Epyc server) - it will be more expensive and i don't have enough space.
I don't understand Threadripper anymore. It used to be that OOMF that you didn't get with consumer grade chips, aimed at people who needed a lot of cores, maybe more PCI-E lanes, working on tech stuff, perhaps programming or editing. Anything that could use all that power. But now I wonder how good they are, in price-value ratio, compared to a high end consumer chip that already have plenty of cores of which most of the things don't make use of, generally speaking and also adding an EPYC chip, even if it's used/last gen so you don't pay as much. If any app would need more cores and could use all of it, wouldn't an EPYC be better despite perhaps slower cores?
EPYC is more expensive than you might think unless you go back 2-3 generations, and Zen 4 is, despite the negative press from the factory overclocked initial X parts, a substantial architectural improvement that means a lot less power per unit work done in addition to much better raw performance, and not all of the workloads being done on these systems are embarrassingly parallel so single core performance is still important in some cases. More specifically, these systems are geared mostly towards small to medium businesses for a few key use cases: 1) For compute, people who need a lot of compute power in a single work station, for instance complex CAD, 3D animation, video processing or other more specialised workloads. The extra cost pales in comparison to getting work done faster and wasting less of your expensive specialist employee's time, so they get away with higher costs, although not as much as top tier pro level stuff since these tasks might not be as processor bound at this level 2) For IO - those PCIe lanes translate into much faster storage access, much faster networking (eg multiple 10GbE ports, even SFP fibre if you want) and much faster local data transfer eg media ingest. This is one of the main reasons a lot of these tech channels are really excited about the non-pro systems (LMG said a while ago theyve got a 29xx series Threadripper just to ingest footage, and Steve in this video was noting he can think of good ways to put those lanes to use). The diminishing returns above this point means that non-Pro TR hits a sweet spot for this use case in small and medium businesses 3) For GPGPU - if you aren't big enough to throw around EPYC servers with PCIe fabric, you want all your GPUs on the same system to be used by that system. This kind of ties in with 1, but it's more about the GPU side of things. This is the most likely case to be a candidate for an old EPYC server, but even in this case more CPU power is still nice to have and you might start hitting PCIe bandwidth bottlenecks with older PCIe generations (plus, to keep those GPUs fed you need a ton of networking and/or storage, see point 2). Plus, there's a small but significant group of people who will buy these systems just as enthusiasts, and the latest and greatest is always going to have an appeal to that group that might encourage some of them to give their money directly to AMD and the OEMs rather than to the used market.
I do agree. Back when Intel was in the height of its stagnation, HEDT made much more sense, as you had to make the jump if you wanted more than 6 cores or so. But now, the R9 and i9 Series are so strong, only the most hardcore enthusiast or professionals with really high requirements (or rates per hour) need these beautiful, monstrous motherboards. I'm a CEO myself (run my own graphic design company), and it'll be a very long time before I need anything more than 16 cores
That's exactly what Threadripper is. And, regular chips don't even come close. "high end consumer" is an oxymoron. AM5 only has 2 memory channels, 16 PCIe lanes, and is limited to 16 cores. It's garbage and performs like garbage compared to Threadripper.
@@joshuastedford1670 You don't have to be a "hardcore enthusiast or professional" to want to do common stuff like Blender or Unreal Engine game dev or AI with much better times. R9 and i9 series are not strong, they are heavily locked down and they aren't fast. Being the top of garbage isn't an achievement.
And here I thought the WRX80 version of the ASUS Sage Wifi that I use had a lot of power connectors with 1 24-pin, 2 8-pin 12-volt, 1 8-pin PCIe and 2 6-pin PCIe connectors. I guess ASUS just had to on-up themselves this round although the WRX80 was a 280 watt TDP and the WRX90 is 350.
Aside from the awesomeness of the HEDTs.... I love the dry humour. I am editing while listening to this and caught myself chuckling out loud... eg blazing and hyper and the 5090 cinderblock edition... Did like the ASUS boards although after their AM5 quality issues I'd gone off their brand. Gonna keep an eye on this. I am moving to more workload heavy use as I am moving more and more from photography to videography, which has led me into the world of blender and vfx. I was waiting for the 8950x but one of these 7960 or 7970s might be the go depending how badly we are going to get gouged out here in Australia and if I can play Apex Legends on it (I only ever play 1 game at a time and never single player games).
Threadripper is a must have for gaming as other much cheaper platforms provides much less pcie lanes. One graphic card is 16 lanes so for usb4/thunderbolt and other usb and ofcourse several nvme in raid no lanes left.
Threadripper WRX90 looks like a good product for doing AI learning with 8 single slot water cooled 4090s. I cant wait to see what motherboard Puget Systems is going to use. I think this is why 4090s are scarce and pricey even with the China the embargo on 4090s.
@@Xamy- Quoting Tim Dettmers, "Generally, NVLink is not useful. NVLink is a high speed interconnect between GPUs. It is useful if you have a GPU cluster with +128 GPUs. Otherwise, it yields almost no benefits over standard PCIe transfers."
@@dyson9422 Doesn't NVLINK enable the cards to share memory? Or do current PCI E 4.0 x16 card configurations allow for memory sharing through PCIE? I'm just curious.
One thing I'd like to see with these boards is PCIe bifurcation support testing. Something as simple as an x16 card with 4 M.2 slots properly wroking would be good to see. You could go for something more spicy too, like a riser card that has 4 x4 PCIe slots on it, and a different device plugged into each.
MSI has been sitting out a lot of AMD launches as of recently I wonder if their relationship with AMD has soured somehow I was really looking forward to getting an MSI RX 7700xt Just because I like MSI’s support, and I’ve literally never had an issue with even the lowest quality MSI components out of the 50 PC’s I’ve built From motherboards, coolers, and GPU’s But they sat that launch and the 7800xt out Now this Very strange
this has been going on since the MSI 40 series gpus launched with new coolers and the AMD 7000s were still using the 30 series coolers. AMD on MSI was always a sure bet, but since 40 series launched, MSI has turned it's back on AMD and become an NVIDIA darling, evidenced by the fact that no high end MSI 40 series are available right now because they're all going to China/Hong Kong (as per NVIDIA's order to beat the embargo, which in itself should be considered a breach of embargo) It's a damn shame because I love my MSI AMD rig and my new 4060 ti 16gb, but I can't help but feel I've "fed the beast". Make no mistake that MSI is in NVidia's pocket at this point.
@@grtninja I tend to agree It seems like, with EVGA no longer making Nvidia products, and with ASUS losing its prestige (or more likely, not willing to do every little thing Nvidia wants) MSI has replaced them as Nvidia’s go to OEM Especially with MSI being the ONLY one to re-release the RTX 4000 series in “slim” models, something no one else made a big deal about And Nvidia gave them special attention Which is a bummer, I like MSI’s products I don’t use them exclusively, just on my personal builds to match and be aesthetic Ig next build, I’ll go with Gigabyte Because I want a R7 7700x and a RX 7700xt I’m not giving Nvidia a dime, and Intel uses far too much power Idk, maybe I’ll just stick with my RX 6750xt and R7 5700x for a bit longer My MSI X370 gaming titanium has done well so far
Same. Was waiting for a successor to my 2950X, which is really dated at this point (yeah, a bit more IO and memory than desktop Ryzen, but CPU performance itself is meh compared to desktop Ryzen).
One MiniSAS connector can support up to four SATA devices with a cheap breakout cable. The boards with four SATA connectors and one MiniSAS connector can also support eight SATA devices.
It's kinda crazy that they're having to stuff so much IO into the (closely spaced) PCIe slots just to cater to the potential capabilities of the CPU (which are admittedly quite impressive). I wasn't really paying attention to PC hardware the way I am now when Threadripper came to market originally, but these motherboards offer a truly impressive amount of connectivity. One thing I'm wondering about, since I'm interested in VR and that uses a lot of USB ports for... well everything. Why can't I find a USB host bus adapter card (PCIe to USB ports, internal headers or external Type A / Type C ports) that uses a PCIe 4.0 or 5.0 interface? Every single one I can find on Amazon maxes out at using the PCIe 3.0 standard. What I want to know is why is this the case when they could switch to using a newer revision of PCIe and either make a card that fits in a smaller PCIe slot or offer more bandwidth to the existing ports? For instance, most of the "7 port" USB host cards that fit in a PCIe slot are limited to 5gbps overall bandwidth and a PCIe 3.0 X1 interface. There are occasional ones that use an X4 slot, those are better because they offer more bandwidth to be shared among all the ports. But I never see any cards that offer 7 USB ports, at 5gbps each, that use a PCIe 4.0 or 5.0 interface to allow their fitment in an X1 slot or offer more overall bandwidth to the collection of ports (say upgrading them to USB 3.1 gen 1 ports at 10gbps each for all 7, using a PCIe 4.0 x4 interface). Sure the card might be more expensive in that case, but there's surely a market for it, especially with the dawn of these Threadripper 5000 HEDT motherboards that have so many "physically X16, electrically who knows" slots with no single slot being of lower revision than PCIe 4.0. Basically, the motherboards have the IO for it, so why can't I find a good HBA card that is capable of UTILIZING IT? Maybe there needs to be reviews of non-GPU cards that fit in PCIe slots. Would pair well with reviews of the new HEDT cpus and motherboards that are coming out, at least, or so I think.
I really hope those Display Port in to Thunderbolt 4 out becomes way more common. Especially helps with a lot of thunderbolt displays such as the Pro Display XDR.
Suppose it makes sense that MSI is skipping this one. They are already selling 1k+ "GODLIKE" motherboards. There is no way for them to create a HEDT board that wouldn't either put their existing products to utter shame by showing how over-designed they are for their intended purpose OR would have to be so over-designed itself to justify its premium it would be too ridiculous even for them...
Threadripper 7000 CPUs are all limited to 1DPC MSI has basically abandoned workstation as they haven't supported the last 2-3 Intel platforms either. I can't help but wonder how burned they were by excess x299 inventory.
I think they figured out that gamers, furries, and furry gamers have more expendable income on average. The person willing to drop 5Gs on a mascot costume is the person willing to drop two and a half Gs on a toy graphics card.
Can you please include the non-Pro in your normal PC Benchmarks so there is some association to this lineup with avg users and so they don't get rid of the non-Pro lineup again?
Interesting that the first Asus one(and Gigabyte one?) has RAM between the VRM and the CPU, heard that can be an issue for the signal. Maybe the traces just go around the RAM but that would make them longer. Or maybe the board is thick enough?
Considering the insane cost of the Pro version CPUs plus probably another $1500+ for a good board, enthusiasts w/o infinite pockets are again left with the cut down variants ... which are still insanely expensive. Can't wait for the reviews that bench these systems against used dual-Xeon platforms that cost half the moneys.
The current threadripper and epyc systems blow away a lot of the older stuff and depending on exactly what platform you are moving from can use less power doing it. It's not an apples to apples comparison but I moved from a 2678v3 to a 7302 for my proxmox server and the difference is night and day using about the same amount of power. Also compared to an old HP dual socket workstation but that was less of a fair comparison between the systems. Add in things like PCIE 4 support and now PCIE 5 and DDR 5 with the newest platforms and it's getting harder to justify the older stuff when the Intel and AMD stuff that's a couple generations old is starting to get (relatively) cheap. That said the older stuff still works fine if you don't need all the modern bells and whistles, my NAS is still running on a 1230 V2 just because replacing it is turning out to be something of a pain but I'll probably get around to it next year.
@@nadtz All true, but it doesn't change the fact that 99% of these chips will end up in tax deductible pre-built workstations for a small number of business customers. And a couple PCs of yt influencers. A fully kitted out WRX90 system's gonna have a five digit price tag, with TRX50 not far behind. HEDT always meant 'expensive halo product', but in the past they were at least attainable for ppl with normal income. My X299 workstation was already painfully expensive compared to a mainstream platform, but these rebranded Epic chips are on a completely different level, aimed at a different group of customers even compared to previous TR generations. My current server (former ws) with its two e5-2696v3 and my current 10980xe workstation are horrible in terms of compute/watt compared to newer systems, but unless I find a way to declare it a business expense, my old puters could draw a kilowatt at idle and it still wouldn't justify the cost of a new Epic or TR system. To the average private hardware enthusiast AMD's current interpretation of HEDT is the same as the newest Lamborghini. A picture in a magazine.
I have a Gigabyte Aero G X570S board that has a DP input, and can confirm that its intended use is indeed to pass GPU output to a USB display. Neat, but it's always seemed like an odd feature to include as standard.
Check out our deep-dive on the Steam Deck OLED vs. LCD differences! Really fun video: ua-cam.com/video/9jhRh11bTRA/v-deo.html
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I just wish that AM5 was more like these. Not having 2 or 3 x16 electrically wired slots is really detrimental of being able to run a small home server on older cost effective hardware (like a 16 port raid card or cheap extra nic for example).It means when you upgrade from AM5 to a new board in the future the am5 board might not be good as a router etc.
Usually the ones I know who are "blazing" it up are slower than the ones who are "hyper".
***STEVE***
Over the years, I have gone into the online store so many times. Unfortunately, I always stop when I reach the checkout. The U$ to CAN$ is a killer, especially when you add shipping on top! Is there any way that the store could have a Canadian 'warehouse,' with CAN$ pricing and shipping? I think GN would benefit. It may require you to put on your fair sales hat, but that's a problem I'm sure you could solve in spades. Maybe you could feel out the potential customer interest in a video question or poll? Remember Business 101, it's better to have a percentage of something, then 100% of nothing. And, the easiest methods of growth is through expansion! Thoughts?
Your new website design has really poor readability on the dates of articles. I don't think I would have seen them if I didn't expect there to be dates. The dark gray melds into the dark blue. A lighter gray would be much better, better yet would be something similar to the category box underneath the article.
Are all the OEMs in on the only 4 RAM slots thing?
honestly, I'd expect "reduces the risk of fire" to come from Gigabyte, not Asrock
ooooof. The internet remembers.
It could also be considered a shot at Gigabyte
@@GamersNexus Never seen Patrick Stone review PSU for a long time. Did he caught PTSD ( Pyro Traumatic Stress Disorder ) from the explosion of Gigabyte PSU back then ?
Asrock is dogshit and should sell their motherboard division to EVGA for 0¥
If you're buying a PSU from gigabyte.. well, that's your first mistake. I'll never buy a PSU that doesn't start with the letter Seasonic.
I forgot how batshit insane HEDT boards can get. This new generation of Threadripper gonna be wild.
They’re basically server boards that trade necessary (at this level anyway) server features for onboard WiFi and cool colors/heatsinks.
@@ChrisM541Linus does 😂
@@Chukijay Server boards typically have about 1/2 to 1/3rd the VRM and lean heavily on active cooling to keep the board from cooking. When it comes to efficiency and peak power, there simply is no comparison to a good HEDT board.
@@user-mk4or5yu9r Individuals running UA-cam channels need computers this powerful.
@@Chukijay Yes, i don't get the shoving of massive heatsinks on boards and their effectiveness. The cheap MSI B550 MPG board i have has 4 giant pieces of metal on it, even though most companies put them on boards to justify doubling-tripling the price of the board. As i've been watching an older vid from GN about top priced motherboards not even including a debug LED screen, i start wondering why there are boards that for little to almost no advantage over mid, even entry level boards they cost 3 times or 4 times more. Why would you even pay 500$ for a motherboard nowadays? The board i have has BIOS flashback, 4.0 x16 PCI, digital audio, a decent VRM, 6 SATA, 2 M.2, front and rear USB 3.2, onboard lighting, diagnosis LEDs etc. Why would anybody pay 400$ more for a "top" board? Just for WiFi and 10Gb ethernet?
HEDT motherboards have always been one of my favorite things in the PC world, they are surely the craziest pieces of hardware there is. I remember how there were whole articles written about how beautiful and artistic HEDT motherboards are. They are truly pieces of hardware art. Consumer motherboards are nothing compared to the craziness of HEDT motherboards in every aspect possible.
Agree: I‘m still struggling if I should sell my Gigabyte Designare EX X399 Threadripper Combo with 1920x. I still keep it as a nice Test platform to test hardware, OS, ZFS layouts etc.
gigabyte support just sent me a Beta BIOS with Resize BAR option :)
These HEDT motherboard are truly the _creme de la creme_ of desktop motherboards!
@@weisstdudochnicht1 I can’t bring myself to sell my ASRock x99 Taichi hedt board. I love the aesthetic and functionality of the board. It released later in the x99 cycle and already has multiple M.2 slots and other bells and whistles.
Even though it isnt as crazy as many modern TR boards, still pretty awesome.
Been thinking about framing it and just pin it to the wall like its an art piece.
Do you remember what AMD did to every TRX40 user? Do you remember that infamous "long term support promise"?
@@ChrisM541looks longingly at my TRX40 board and 3960X
In my experience, the backplate serves more of a protective role. These boards are absolutely packed, and you will find a lot of surface mount devices on the back that can be damaged by standoffs during install.
I really love how the Asus PRO Series boards look. It's got the clean, function-focused design of server boards (esp. in the heatsinks) with the fancy black PCBs of consumer boards. Maybe I'll get one in a few years when these systems depreciate in value.
@@billygrennek5299 Ooh yeah, those definitely look nice! But given the prices, if I really do want a clean-looking GPU, I can just buy a regular ol' card and slap a minimalistic waterblock on it.
How quickly people forget the recent scandals of ASUS.
@@benisrood That's partly why I'd rather wait. To see if Asus actually improves over time, and to make sure the boards hold up well. And since I'd be buying the board used, I wouldn't be directly giving money to Asus.
I'm glad there are motherboards that don't look like discount Gundam knock-offs.
You'll be waiting for awhile, HEDT platforms barely depreciate in value even after end of life. Take intel's x99,x299 OEM mobos for example, they're still pretty expensive on the used market and TRX50/WRX90 will be significantly more expensive.
That supermicro board looks super interesting.
I've been dipping my toes into server hardware lately, and the capability of it is truly amazing.
From the looks of it, the supermicro board might be one of the cheapest of the bunch, but also one of the best.
The problem with their boards that I’ve found is sometimes they don’t provide the maximum amount of power a cpu is rated for.
The board looks like every supermicro board for the last 20yrs ha.
Just depends what you're needing the computer to do, if gaming is the objective then server motherboards probably aren't the answer.
supermicro isn't exactly among the cheapest of vendors, they mostly sell server grade stuff and offer a long ass guarantee, that ain't cheap, even compared to HEDT parts
it's a server grade stuff with enterprise-tier networking, it can easily be most expensive of those all
I bet Wendell is going to have a field day with these. Although I don't have any use for HEDT (yet... you know how that goes) just seeing how cool these things are is nice. Often you get the impression that manufacturers really don't care about consumers but HEDT boards almost make it look like that's not the case.
Hahaha, Wendell will do awesome things with these!
The difference you've picked up on comes down to the fact that gaming focused PCs are, for want of a better word, toys. Expensive yes, but still toys. HEDT on the other hand is a tool to be bought for business/making money. It is a completely different mindset.
@@monkohm6918Gaming focused PCs, perhaps, yes. But people use even consumer PCs for far more tasks. For me, I use a repurposed workstation (which is the price of a consumer PC) as a home server. And those tasks are far more involved and important than that of a toy, they involve more learning, gaining knowledge, and yes, having fun also.
FEA, RT....
"5090 Cinderblock Edition" Makes me want to get some of them red I-beam case kits, and build a tower that looks like an unfinished skyscraper, so I have just the build for it! Best of all, it could fit these huge motherboards easily!
Be sure you plug the power supplies into independent circuits on the off chance you blow your breaker... cause they went there.
As a Naval electrician, I don't think most homes/apartments have each outlet with it's own circuit. I think they tie them all together into the same breaker. But, what do I know? Like I said, I'm only an electrician on the Navy side. lol
Some circuits share a breaker, but they don't all do.
@@Bonqiqi Typically your high power consuming electrical appliances, like your fridge, electrical oven and so on, should be on a separate circuit.
@@LaughingSkull451 Yikes, you're an electrician but don't know the difference between it's (it is) and its (possessive)?
@@vdochev Fridges almost never have a dedicated circuit because they are designed to use less than 800 watts at peak.
Electrical ovens almost-invariably use a 220V circuit, irrelevant to the discussion.
Most codes require microwave ovens to have a dedicated circuit.
I would love more design like this in the gamer market. So tired of child toy aesthetics.
Agreed. Curse all kiddies.
I think the Asus ProArt boards look pretty professional.
@@ShroudedWolf51 ...except they had to ruin it with that "Built for pros" text on the I/O shroud. At least the exhaust fan should cover it, I guess.
Definitely in agreement there. Mainstream motherboards for ATX gaming systems have the worst marketing.
The Asrock LiveMixer looks down, shamed and embarrassed by your callous comment.
HEDT seems to be making a comeback, curious how it holds up against some of the epyc chips.
@@ChrisM541how many times are you going to spam this dude? Go back to UserBenchmark and leave us alone lmfao
Who other than AMD is making an HEDT part except for the companies making these MBs?
You know why MSI is sitting this out? It's too niche. It's not enough business to make them money. Why do you think Intel and Nvidia dropped the HEDT market?
It's nice and all AMD is doing this, most likely because they have die that won't work for EPYC which is a lot more demanding especially for the IOD, but it's not going to make AMD money, in fact they'll probably lose money on it which is why they skipped HEDT for Zen 3. And this gets back to a point I've never validated but most likely true, when a person buys TR HEDT, most likely they have hardware they're trying to add to these system, like different add on PCIe adapters which is the only reason you need those extra PCIe lanes since any slot is STILL at max X16. Just a wild guess but I imagine there's often issues that come up and the consumer needs help trying to figure out how to get things to work and they turn to AMD for support. But HEDT isn't WS and it's not something AMD is obligated to offer personal support for getting systems working for each person. So, a person buys HEDT and has an expectation of support, but that's why you buy a PRO system which companies that make PRO hardware typically have support packages just like in the world of server.
And even in the world of adapters for PCIe, even this is dying out. There used to be a lot of RAID controllers produced, but software RAID is typically replacing RAID controllers, so anything beyond say an PCIe gen4 NVMe X16 adapter which is basically connecting 4 disks straight to the PCIe lanes is becoming more rare.
AMD CAN make money on TR PRO WS because it costs more and probably sold with support packages. But HEDT? No, and as desktop becomes more powerful the need for HEDT dies even more.
How would HEDT do vs. EPYC? I'd ask how does TR HEDT do against TR PRO. Server parts are binned to use less power. They don't clock as high. Power consumption is everything in the world of server.
@@I_enjoy_some_things That moron ranted SO HARD on Gamers Nexus's video covering the announcement of TR 7000. I stopped counting after having seen some 20 comments. I'm starting to suspect he's a paid actor.
@@johndoh5182 MSI pulled out because they know not even The Braindead will touch Threadripper 7000. Why? -
--> Because everyone knows AMD 100% royally shafted their entire non-pro HEDT userbase with that TRX40 insanity !!!
--> Threadripper 7000 HEDT will, obviously, be a huge failure.
Check out that Gigabyte Threadripper MB - only THREE(!!!) PCIe slots and severely limited IO - and thats with PCIE Gen 5 ffs....now check out the 4 year old PCIe Gen 4 TRX40 Asus Zenith II Extreme - night and day difference. Even MB manufacturers are, rightly, out to destroy AMD's TR 7000 series.
Intel did not drop HEDT. That's what Xeon W is
WRX90 are clearly the best boards to watch youtube videos on. Could be a good investment for browsing the internets
It was the detailed board diagram and feature/component videos that originally caught me attention to this channel. Always glad to see this kind of content.
Remember back in the late 90's- mid 2000's when most consumer motherboards all came with five expansion slots at the very least? Flash-forward to today, and you're lucky to get four slots while paying a outrageous mark-up on most enthusiast boards.
Gigabyte rolling in with way fewer slots than some B550 boards while likely costing at least 3x as much.
Almost Nobody uses them anymore
Sli died suddenly. Prices of graphic cards probably.
There's definitely less need for them and less people using them so it's understandable, but I still hate to see boards with barely any PCIe slots. Back in the day you'd need a sound card and in the 90s you might have a 2D GPU alongside a Voodoo for 3D. Nowadays everything is built into the mobo, including wifi sometimes, so expansion is only needed for a discrete GPU and maybe capture card or some niche card you might need.
But back then you had expansion boards for everything because they ran proprietary/odd cables. My flatbed scanner was SCSI and came with a card. Both my printers were LPR so I needed an extra card because the board only had one. My TV tuner was on a separate card. My sound card was separate. Today all that god-awful junk either no longer exist, is USB or is build into the motherboard.
Today most people don't even use internal grabber cards. Basically after the GPU the rest are just for raiser cards for more NVMe slots.
I have an older supermicro (Xeon 2600 v3/v4 lga2011-3) ATX board with dual sockets. They tend to be good about offering ATX options where others don’t.
These boards are nuts.
nVidia RTX 5090 cinderblock edition had me rolling. XD
i know i'll never have the money to spend on a threadripper setup, but a boy can dream!
I'm fully expecting to see a slot in our Robot Overlords' chests for housing an Nvidia 5090 Cinder Block edition. Rumor has it that the downclocked ones will reveal themselves if you rub their chests and the die mark comes off.
I need this. I don't need this. But I need this.
Having read through the comments and commented on a few: MSI giving up on AMD should be the real story here. More investigation on this please!
Me and friend have the same x570 MSI board and have been given the big old middle finger from them. His USB ports cant do VR and mine can't do the rated XMP profile for my QVL'd memory. I haven't tried to do it lately, but the boards are definitely on the shittier tier. Big Fuck It energy.
@@j_ferguson I've had my x570 gaming plus for a couple years now, it's been rock solid, my only complaint is that the second M.2 is PCI 3 and doesn't support direct storage. I have found I have to set my memory speed manually instead of using XMP. (using 3600) Prior to that I ran MSI boards on AMD CPUs and Nvidia GPUs almost exclusively. If MSI is backing away from AMD (or vice versa) it will hurt the entire industry, and I will probably be done with them. the appeal of MSI was cross compatibility between parts, you always see MSI gpus in Frankenstein rigs for a reason, they just work. The software, though not perfect, was usually better than other brands, such as dragon center (though I have my complaints about that). And for those of us who only used MSI parts, you could expect your rig to work when you were done building it, or atleast have support documentation to help. Idk what changed over the last couple years, but they have not been the same since the pandemic.
@@grtninja I tried setting the timings and frequency manually without luck. The worse is I don't have a clear CMOS button and the battery is beneath the GPU. I really hate having to touch two pins together. The fact my friend never had buggy hardware replaced and or compensated for sticks with me
WRX90 EVO, definitely... A Subaru WRX and a Mitsubishi EVO came together and made a motherboard.. Who would have thought...
De8auer was ahead of the game convincing lian Li to add a second power supply spot to the o11d
Finally someone is acknowledging the 5090 CB edition!
Jokes aside I do want to upgrade my TR 2950 but the fact that nobody is announcing prices does concern me, probably I will not be able to afford any of this and go back to regular cpus for work (Especially after this whole year of strikes in the film industry).
Nice thing about Intel Sapphire Rapids is that the W790 board is one platform for both 2400 and 3400 CPUs. So even if you "invest" in a high-end motherboard, you can get a more budget CPU and upgrade it later.
Wish AMD's PRO platform would support both CPU series
can definitely tell that some of the design choices/limitations set on TRX50/90 is meant to make sure they don't cut into epyc sales.
Hardly anyone bought TR to begin with. I have no idea who their audience is. Most business go with Xeons.
Threadripper has always been a balancing act of giving people more than Ryzen while not letting those lovely Epyc margins get away. I was genuinely surprised non-Pro models came back.
They went away because they didn't sell, and neither will these. It's a product that has no real market anymore. @@benjaminoechsli1941
In the market for a no frills rock solid MB, please review the SuperMicro.
Blazing: Gen5x4, Hyper: Gen4x4 (shown at 11:55 and 11:59)
This is exciting because it means more 3 and 5 series Threadrippers on the used market
They will be so abused though...
Don't forget about vendor locked examples! Some of TR 5000 cpu's locked to dedicated oem motherboard and will not boot on other boards!!! Be very careful before you buy!! If CPU was installed in Lenovo workstation and now on sale standalone - this is very expensive brick.
@@benisroodIt's a workstation CPU. CPUs already have such a low failure rate relative to other parts. They'll be absolutely fine
9:37 it is beyond me how motherboard manufacturers space the PCIe slots so poorly that you cannot plug in 4x 2-slot GPUs.
Oh honey, they all there for just GPUs lol.
@@katzicaelI'm not sure if this is sarcastic or not because either way it's wrong.
If you're being sincere, they obviously can't all be for GPUs because some of the slots will be blocked by GPUs, and a tweak in spacing would increase the number of multi slot cards you could attach even with the same slot count and board size.
If you're being sarcastic, a lot of the connectivity for high performance systems these days is devoted to multi GPU systems for GPGPU, and while there are plenty of single slot cards that are borderline essential in HEDT/HPC, that slot layout means you couldn't even fit those in between more than 2-3 GPUs anyway, again despite there being enough raw physical space and exposed lanes to do it with a different layout.
@@bosstowndynamics5488Waterblocks
@@bosstowndynamics5488But if you look at the actual layout of say, the ASUS TRX50-SAGE, it does have the first two slots spaced at 2X. So we're talking about extreme examples where you would need more 2X slot spacing and at that, the motherboard becomes ridiculously large or, like said, you run out of spacing for all other PCIE expansion. Most use cases don't require more than 2 graphics cards per board and if they do, you're using risers and custom chassis for the GPUs anyways.
@@elus89 Don't have the screenshot in front of me but there's one of the single slot spaced areas where moving it over one would increase the number of 2 slot cards you could fit. It's also worth noting that the number of single slot cards you could fit in this board alongside a twin 3 slot card setup would be larger with a different configuration as well.
I want an old-fashioned green motherboard with white connectors. With a clean and lean design. No fans. I'd also much prefer to have an APU on a threadripper board, simply because I'd much rather have the memory bandwidth for an integrated GPU. And an IGPU that is fed from 4 high-end DDR5 ram sticks should be able to throw in some decent performance.
I imagine tech marketing execs see Steve in their nightmares.
Supermicro's board names actually have very specific and clear meanings, it's just you need a decoder ring like AMD to understand them.
14:41 😂😂😂 you heckin got me with the cinder block 😂😂😂
"Sounds like a Subaru." Lancer fans fetching their torches & pitchforks right about now.
It is interesting how TB4 (and by extension TB5) are no longer a thing.
I missed HEDT, these things are mesmerizing to look at
very colourful! I like
I would buy the RTX 5090 cinderblock, because bigger means better. Or that's what ads on some kind of websites have taught me 🤔
All depends on pricing. If this can replace my server AND my gaming machine, awesome. I can throw my domain stuff in VMs, send those through one NIC and my main OS on its own NIC and use iLO/IPMI/whatever when I’m away from it. I still have a hard time saying “why not just build a server” but some people want it all in one box
Something like a 13900k can be a server for most small uses. Outside of businesses, there is no reason for HEDT to exist anymore.
@@drunkhusband6257 Those boards don't support what I need. Most of these boards will naturally support S.L.I like all WRX80 boards do & most TRX40 do. They also support 4 way crossfire too. I cannot find a newer Consumer Intel board that still supports S.L.I past Z690.
Because SLI is dead, there is no reason to have it at all anymore. The only reason SLI existed was for gaming....so what would you need threadripper for?@@kevinerbs2778
@@drunkhusband6257 E-cores, only 2 memory channels, and only 16 PCIe lanes. You must be drunk. A 13900K is a toy, it has no connectivity, it performs like a toy when compared to Threadripper, and HEDT has a LOT of reason to exist for consumers who want powerful builds. Now more than ever.
The Threadripper prices are insane too. Especially in Canada. I currently need a new HEDT to replace my aging X99 6950X and I would like to go with Threadripper but it's just too expensive for what you get. So I'm probably going to wait and go with a R9-9900X 12-Core and 192GB memory. I do have an Intel W7-2495X Workstation here that I bought in 2023, which was $12000 CAD. I priced out the competing Threadripper and it was $20000 CAD. Intel needs a new proper affordable HEDT X399 or something with a $500 motherboard and $1000 CPU with quad channel memory and 32 PCIe5 lanes and up to 24 P-Cores.
WRX and EVO in one, they just built the ultimate rally motherboard
Noob question: When using dual power supplies do both need to be the same spec?
That's an awesome question. Hearting this to hopefully push it up to help others, as I bet that's a common point of confusion. They do not need to be the same spec. The motherboard ultimately won't know the difference. You'd still want the secondary PSU to be of at least enough power to hold a whole system load in the event the motherboard manufacturer designed it poorly (or if something goes wrong), but they don't need to be identical. For example, if you have a 1200W Seasonic PSU and a 1000W Corsair PSU, the board won't know any different. Holdup time in a power surge might have an impact, but a system this expensive should be behind a UPS anyway.
@@GamersNexus Heck, my 850W Ryzen 9 system is behind a UPS. But that's mostly because the current in old Eastern Europe houses is very shaky and this is a work machine. In general, any work machine your livelihood depends on should be behind a UPS. That's a critical infrastructure *for you* that you need 7 9's of uptime on 😂
Really want to see a SuperMicro WRX90 system with 8 memory slots and at least 5 full PCIe slots (couldn't care less for M.2 crap, that's what oculink/sas 4 (24gbps) is for). Supermicro boards have been great for the last 20+ years (shouts out to Tyan as well as another great board maker). for true workstation systems you do not want any additional functions you want the bare minimum and you want it to WORK. In reality, what I would love to see (due to the stupid pricing on threadripper pro cpu's) would be a full EATX (12x13 or whatever spec) Eypc board for a single cpu but with 12 channel memory support. You run out of memory bandwidth pretty damn fast when > 16-24 cores.
I bet it will be more affordable in comparison with ASUS, but what about overclocking and VRM cooling?
@@falsevacuum1988 with HEDT or more properly workstation class boards, overclocking is not an issue. You want 24x7x365 with rock solid stability. overclocking is for people who like to jump out of planes without parachutes. completely different market. :) Basically you're looking for full ECC data paths (ECC memory, as well as PCIexpress ECC checking); no or *very* limited m.2 (If you want this you use a slot and design your own solution, and in most cases it will probably be oculink or sas4/24gbps) the only 'on-board' that you may want is a sata connection for a dvd as media still comes that way. you want dual 10Gbit (redundancy) at a minimum (or better dual qsfp+ for 25/40gbit) plus IPMI for management. basically you want the full 80 lanes going to pcie slots, with the ~48 lanes for other I/O (which is more than enough for sas/oculink, chipset (usb, sata, etc), fast ethernet.
As for power, I've used supermicro & tyan boards since the 1990's. they all have been designed very well for power distribution for 24x7 use.
@@stevekristoff4365 I will build 7975wx pro + ??? board + 8x32 RAM (5600 if available) + AIO (i hope SIlverstone will adapt its SP5 variant). I want to see + 10% performance with PBO and watercooling. This tiny Supermicro VRM radiators doesn't look like PBO capable. Workload is scientific computations PLUS daily / gaming PC and (4090) rendering as hobby. I don't want to go dual PC (say 14700 PC+ Epyc server) - it will be more expensive and i don't have enough space.
I don't understand Threadripper anymore. It used to be that OOMF that you didn't get with consumer grade chips, aimed at people who needed a lot of cores, maybe more PCI-E lanes, working on tech stuff, perhaps programming or editing. Anything that could use all that power.
But now I wonder how good they are, in price-value ratio, compared to a high end consumer chip that already have plenty of cores of which most of the things don't make use of, generally speaking and also adding an EPYC chip, even if it's used/last gen so you don't pay as much. If any app would need more cores and could use all of it, wouldn't an EPYC be better despite perhaps slower cores?
EPYC is more expensive than you might think unless you go back 2-3 generations, and Zen 4 is, despite the negative press from the factory overclocked initial X parts, a substantial architectural improvement that means a lot less power per unit work done in addition to much better raw performance, and not all of the workloads being done on these systems are embarrassingly parallel so single core performance is still important in some cases.
More specifically, these systems are geared mostly towards small to medium businesses for a few key use cases:
1) For compute, people who need a lot of compute power in a single work station, for instance complex CAD, 3D animation, video processing or other more specialised workloads. The extra cost pales in comparison to getting work done faster and wasting less of your expensive specialist employee's time, so they get away with higher costs, although not as much as top tier pro level stuff since these tasks might not be as processor bound at this level
2) For IO - those PCIe lanes translate into much faster storage access, much faster networking (eg multiple 10GbE ports, even SFP fibre if you want) and much faster local data transfer eg media ingest. This is one of the main reasons a lot of these tech channels are really excited about the non-pro systems (LMG said a while ago theyve got a 29xx series Threadripper just to ingest footage, and Steve in this video was noting he can think of good ways to put those lanes to use). The diminishing returns above this point means that non-Pro TR hits a sweet spot for this use case in small and medium businesses
3) For GPGPU - if you aren't big enough to throw around EPYC servers with PCIe fabric, you want all your GPUs on the same system to be used by that system. This kind of ties in with 1, but it's more about the GPU side of things. This is the most likely case to be a candidate for an old EPYC server, but even in this case more CPU power is still nice to have and you might start hitting PCIe bandwidth bottlenecks with older PCIe generations (plus, to keep those GPUs fed you need a ton of networking and/or storage, see point 2).
Plus, there's a small but significant group of people who will buy these systems just as enthusiasts, and the latest and greatest is always going to have an appeal to that group that might encourage some of them to give their money directly to AMD and the OEMs rather than to the used market.
I do agree. Back when Intel was in the height of its stagnation, HEDT made much more sense, as you had to make the jump if you wanted more than 6 cores or so.
But now, the R9 and i9 Series are so strong, only the most hardcore enthusiast or professionals with really high requirements (or rates per hour) need these beautiful, monstrous motherboards.
I'm a CEO myself (run my own graphic design company), and it'll be a very long time before I need anything more than 16 cores
That's exactly what Threadripper is. And, regular chips don't even come close. "high end consumer" is an oxymoron. AM5 only has 2 memory channels, 16 PCIe lanes, and is limited to 16 cores. It's garbage and performs like garbage compared to Threadripper.
@@joshuastedford1670 You don't have to be a "hardcore enthusiast or professional" to want to do common stuff like Blender or Unreal Engine game dev or AI with much better times. R9 and i9 series are not strong, they are heavily locked down and they aren't fast. Being the top of garbage isn't an achievement.
And here I thought the WRX80 version of the ASUS Sage Wifi that I use had a lot of power connectors with 1 24-pin, 2 8-pin 12-volt, 1 8-pin PCIe and 2 6-pin PCIe connectors. I guess ASUS just had to on-up themselves this round although the WRX80 was a 280 watt TDP and the WRX90 is 350.
I didn't even know USB4.0 was a thing already 😮
Aside from the awesomeness of the HEDTs.... I love the dry humour. I am editing while listening to this and caught myself chuckling out loud... eg blazing and hyper and the 5090 cinderblock edition...
Did like the ASUS boards although after their AM5 quality issues I'd gone off their brand.
Gonna keep an eye on this. I am moving to more workload heavy use as I am moving more and more from photography to videography, which has led me into the world of blender and vfx.
I was waiting for the 8950x but one of these 7960 or 7970s might be the go depending how badly we are going to get gouged out here in Australia and if I can play Apex Legends on it (I only ever play 1 game at a time and never single player games).
Please do a LN2 XOC stream on the new Threadripper!!! I miss the LN2 streams
We might have something special in the works for that!
Threadripper is a must have for gaming as other much cheaper platforms provides much less pcie lanes. One graphic card is 16 lanes so for usb4/thunderbolt and other usb and ofcourse several nvme in raid no lanes left.
Threadripper WRX90 looks like a good product for doing AI learning with 8 single slot water cooled 4090s. I cant wait to see what motherboard Puget Systems is going to use. I think this is why 4090s are scarce and pricey even with the China the embargo on 4090s.
? 4090s cannot be nvlinked
@@Xamy- Quoting Tim Dettmers, "Generally, NVLink is not useful. NVLink is a high speed interconnect between GPUs. It is useful if you have a GPU cluster with +128 GPUs. Otherwise, it yields almost no benefits over standard PCIe transfers."
@@dyson9422 Doesn't NVLINK enable the cards to share memory? Or do current PCI E 4.0 x16 card configurations allow for memory sharing through PCIE? I'm just curious.
@@Xamy- already becoming an issue with some developers complaining about it & need more than 48Gbs of Vram.
It’s ultra blazing Ti super fast. BACK TO YOU STEVE
Love the way Der8auer is throwing a few € to Gamers Nexus paying for a wee sponsorship spot at the start of the video, how wholesome.
Oh he is making that money back.
@@mikezappulla4092he should, thermal grizzly make great stuffs. Woulda shotup some Conductonaut but heroin is cheaper
Who is he?
Nice, the glasses look slick.
Its ana amzing time to build a homelab / server . So many great choices with efficient and powerful systems with flexible i/o
Ordering the Gigabyte one soon as it launches it's exactly what I wand in an HEDT board.
5090 Cinderblock. Good one. 🤩
I wish i had a need to build one of these, they sound awesome.
One thing I'd like to see with these boards is PCIe bifurcation support testing.
Something as simple as an x16 card with 4 M.2 slots properly wroking would be good to see. You could go for something more spicy too, like a riser card that has 4 x4 PCIe slots on it, and a different device plugged into each.
MSI has been sitting out a lot of AMD launches as of recently
I wonder if their relationship with AMD has soured somehow
I was really looking forward to getting an MSI RX 7700xt
Just because I like MSI’s support, and I’ve literally never had an issue with even the lowest quality MSI components out of the 50 PC’s I’ve built
From motherboards, coolers, and GPU’s
But they sat that launch and the 7800xt out
Now this
Very strange
this has been going on since the MSI 40 series gpus launched with new coolers and the AMD 7000s were still using the 30 series coolers. AMD on MSI was always a sure bet, but since 40 series launched, MSI has turned it's back on AMD and become an NVIDIA darling, evidenced by the fact that no high end MSI 40 series are available right now because they're all going to China/Hong Kong (as per NVIDIA's order to beat the embargo, which in itself should be considered a breach of embargo) It's a damn shame because I love my MSI AMD rig and my new 4060 ti 16gb, but I can't help but feel I've "fed the beast". Make no mistake that MSI is in NVidia's pocket at this point.
@@grtninja I tend to agree
It seems like, with EVGA no longer making Nvidia products, and with ASUS losing its prestige (or more likely, not willing to do every little thing Nvidia wants) MSI has replaced them as Nvidia’s go to OEM
Especially with MSI being the ONLY one to re-release the RTX 4000 series in “slim” models, something no one else made a big deal about
And Nvidia gave them special attention
Which is a bummer, I like MSI’s products
I don’t use them exclusively, just on my personal builds to match and be aesthetic
Ig next build, I’ll go with Gigabyte
Because I want a R7 7700x and a RX 7700xt
I’m not giving Nvidia a dime, and Intel uses far too much power
Idk, maybe I’ll just stick with my RX 6750xt and R7 5700x for a bit longer
My MSI X370 gaming titanium has done well so far
You joke about the RTX 5090 "cinder block" edition at 14:40 but I would not be surprised if we exceed the "4 slot" girth.
I would love to build a Threadripper system... Due to cancer I only have one build left and I would love to make it count!
Nice to see Supermicro in the game; my first PC build was with a Supermicro MB for my Pentium 133. Quality motherboards IMO.
I'm so ready for these! My 2950X workstation has been wonderful and now will have a worthy successor.
Do you remember what AMD did to every TRX40 user? Do you remember that infamous "long term support promise"?
Same. Was waiting for a successor to my 2950X, which is really dated at this point (yeah, a bit more IO and memory than desktop Ryzen, but CPU performance itself is meh compared to desktop Ryzen).
So odd only gigabyte went with 8 SATA as I think main use case for these type of boards is adding lots of storage devices.
Most people will have an HBA card or RAID card in IT mode for this.
One MiniSAS connector can support up to four SATA devices with a cheap breakout cable. The boards with four SATA connectors and one MiniSAS connector can also support eight SATA devices.
@@5467nick ahh ok, thanks, so thats a little more reasonable then.
Oh, I would pay a LOT for a Subaru-Mitsubishi WRX-EVO hybrid.
Supermicro was like : dude what is the point of those "fancy" heatsink ? 😂
I own a Asus WRX-80E SAGE WIFI II for my Threadripper Pro 5975WX 32/64T CPU. I use it as a NAS.
When you have a product name that counts as a safe password on Google, then you know you are doing it right.
“Lowering the risk of fire during overclocking” Damn I clearly have not been over locking hard enough all these years.
It's kinda crazy that they're having to stuff so much IO into the (closely spaced) PCIe slots just to cater to the potential capabilities of the CPU (which are admittedly quite impressive).
I wasn't really paying attention to PC hardware the way I am now when Threadripper came to market originally, but these motherboards offer a truly impressive amount of connectivity.
One thing I'm wondering about, since I'm interested in VR and that uses a lot of USB ports for... well everything.
Why can't I find a USB host bus adapter card (PCIe to USB ports, internal headers or external Type A / Type C ports) that uses a PCIe 4.0 or 5.0 interface?
Every single one I can find on Amazon maxes out at using the PCIe 3.0 standard.
What I want to know is why is this the case when they could switch to using a newer revision of PCIe and either make a card that fits in a smaller PCIe slot or offer more bandwidth to the existing ports?
For instance, most of the "7 port" USB host cards that fit in a PCIe slot are limited to 5gbps overall bandwidth and a PCIe 3.0 X1 interface. There are occasional ones that use an X4 slot, those are better because they offer more bandwidth to be shared among all the ports.
But I never see any cards that offer 7 USB ports, at 5gbps each, that use a PCIe 4.0 or 5.0 interface to allow their fitment in an X1 slot or offer more overall bandwidth to the collection of ports (say upgrading them to USB 3.1 gen 1 ports at 10gbps each for all 7, using a PCIe 4.0 x4 interface).
Sure the card might be more expensive in that case, but there's surely a market for it, especially with the dawn of these Threadripper 5000 HEDT motherboards that have so many "physically X16, electrically who knows" slots with no single slot being of lower revision than PCIe 4.0.
Basically, the motherboards have the IO for it, so why can't I find a good HBA card that is capable of UTILIZING IT?
Maybe there needs to be reviews of non-GPU cards that fit in PCIe slots. Would pair well with reviews of the new HEDT cpus and motherboards that are coming out, at least, or so I think.
Updated cs2 benchmarks?
6:00 the 256gb stick of ram is “guaranteed by federal law”
I really hope those Display Port in to Thunderbolt 4 out becomes way more common. Especially helps with a lot of thunderbolt displays such as the Pro Display XDR.
More of these boards should use cable PCIe expansion tbh
02:50 "doubled 18 phase VRM"
covered by abomination of a heatsink
love the humor Steve, keep up the great work counting the letters and the numbers when they count being counted!
Steve jokes about the RTX-5090 cinderblock edition, but I feel like it's a prediction more than anything else
Steve your sarcasm is too halarious 😂
Can't wait for no upgrade path for these motherboards!!
I really hope Gigebyte/ Aorus releases a new Xtreme board for 7000, I have the TRX40 version
Do you remember what AMD did to every TRX40 user? Do you remember that infamous "long term support promise"?
@@ChrisM541 Yes, and it's still a concern for me
There are no TRX50 boards with 8 RDIMM slots? So, I would need to invest into the WRX90 platform just to get 8 slots that even my old X399 board has.
Suppose it makes sense that MSI is skipping this one. They are already selling 1k+ "GODLIKE" motherboards. There is no way for them to create a HEDT board that wouldn't either put their existing products to utter shame by showing how over-designed they are for their intended purpose OR would have to be so over-designed itself to justify its premium it would be too ridiculous even for them...
Got my Threadripper today but no motherboards available?? WTF
Next year.
12:49 Came to the comments to see if Steve’s EVO “sounds like a Subaru” comment would have the WRX STi folks in here raging. 😂
I'd love to have a desktop MB with SAS ports
MSI seems to be sitting out more and more launches recently, especially on the AMD side. I wonder what's going on there.
Firmly in the territory of "things I will never own" but I liken it to watching reviews of super cars lol
Threadripper 7000 CPUs are all limited to 1DPC
MSI has basically abandoned workstation as they haven't supported the last 2-3 Intel platforms either. I can't help but wonder how burned they were by excess x299 inventory.
I think they figured out that gamers, furries, and furry gamers have more expendable income on average. The person willing to drop 5Gs on a mascot costume is the person willing to drop two and a half Gs on a toy graphics card.
So, I can buy a Threadripper now, but can't buy a motherboard yet? Do we have any timelines on any these motherboards?
Still, none are available for shipping.
Can you please include the non-Pro in your normal PC Benchmarks so there is some association to this lineup with avg users and so they don't get rid of the non-Pro lineup again?
Interesting that the first Asus one(and Gigabyte one?) has RAM between the VRM and the CPU, heard that can be an issue for the signal. Maybe the traces just go around the RAM but that would make them longer. Or maybe the board is thick enough?
Yea I'd say these boards are at least 10 layers, but who knows.
Considering the insane cost of the Pro version CPUs plus probably another $1500+ for a good board, enthusiasts w/o infinite pockets are again left with the cut down variants ... which are still insanely expensive. Can't wait for the reviews that bench these systems against used dual-Xeon platforms that cost half the moneys.
The current threadripper and epyc systems blow away a lot of the older stuff and depending on exactly what platform you are moving from can use less power doing it. It's not an apples to apples comparison but I moved from a 2678v3 to a 7302 for my proxmox server and the difference is night and day using about the same amount of power. Also compared to an old HP dual socket workstation but that was less of a fair comparison between the systems. Add in things like PCIE 4 support and now PCIE 5 and DDR 5 with the newest platforms and it's getting harder to justify the older stuff when the Intel and AMD stuff that's a couple generations old is starting to get (relatively) cheap.
That said the older stuff still works fine if you don't need all the modern bells and whistles, my NAS is still running on a 1230 V2 just because replacing it is turning out to be something of a pain but I'll probably get around to it next year.
@@nadtz All true, but it doesn't change the fact that 99% of these chips will end up in tax deductible pre-built workstations for a small number of business customers. And a couple PCs of yt influencers. A fully kitted out WRX90 system's gonna have a five digit price tag, with TRX50 not far behind. HEDT always meant 'expensive halo product', but in the past they were at least attainable for ppl with normal income. My X299 workstation was already painfully expensive compared to a mainstream platform, but these rebranded Epic chips are on a completely different level, aimed at a different group of customers even compared to previous TR generations.
My current server (former ws) with its two e5-2696v3 and my current 10980xe workstation are horrible in terms of compute/watt compared to newer systems, but unless I find a way to declare it a business expense, my old puters could draw a kilowatt at idle and it still wouldn't justify the cost of a new Epic or TR system. To the average private hardware enthusiast AMD's current interpretation of HEDT is the same as the newest Lamborghini. A picture in a magazine.
Intel: We have the highest power consumption. AMD: Sit down and hold my second power supply.
I have a Gigabyte Aero G X570S board that has a DP input, and can confirm that its intended use is indeed to pass GPU output to a USB display. Neat, but it's always seemed like an odd feature to include as standard.
I don't have a reason for a Threadripper CPU, but I still want to build a system with one. 😅
Looking forward to userbenchmark saying that the 14000 series offered a better generational increase over the threadripper series
It's a pity no USB 4 implementation on these boards
15:06 Here
@@fleurdewin7958 that board has just 3 pcie slots I don't know if it's the partners sabotaging threadripper
I wish I could have more than 16 cores but still have the super high clock frequencies for single core workloads
"Blazing" better describes your checking account after ordering it.