BILLIONAIRE SPACE RACE - Bezos v Musk (Part 2)
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- Опубліковано 19 жов 2024
- We dig into the documented details of the HLS selection process, the GAO challenge, and the federal court case surrounding NASA's solo selection of SpaceX in 2021, and found quite a few surprises.
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SpaceX proves insider-trading REALLY pays.
It always has. The only difference is that now these guys are doing it openly and brazenly and getting away with it.
Insider trading? This is bribery.
On the other hand, the multi-billion dollar boondoggles that are SLS and Orion prove that Northrop, Grumman, Boeing, and the rest of Old Space, are all guilty of bribery, and no doubt insider trading etc. In fact Northrop was criminally convicted of bribery a few years back too.
In the united states you can steal 14 million dollars using fraud and they will arrest you, take you to court, and a judge will force you to pay a 4 million dollar fine. -James Randi
SpaceX isn't publicly traded so it's not insider trading. I do wonder what she got out of making this deal though. It could be that she's just stupid enough to believe in conman Musks bullshit like many are.
Its just insane how much faith people still have in SpaceX & Musk despite all the shenanigans. Im personally convinced that SpaceX has done more damage to the development and the public opinions on Space explorations than good.
Crew Dragon still remains the only american way to get humans into orbit. That Starliner is taking forever is not SpaceXs fault. Also a lot of missions getting cancelled from Sojus last year, like Euclid, were really lucky that SpaceX has such in insane launch cadence. Not a lot of other rocket systems comparable to Falcon 9 right now in terms of cadence, price and reliability. That could of course change in a few years, with Vulcan, Neutron and New Glenn getting operational.
Once Dreamchaser comes online, there will be some competition. Any day now....
@@commonsenseskeptic I'm not used to your style of writing so I can't tell whether this is a joke, naming mistake or genuine opinion. Do you consider DreamChaser to be serious near term competition for Crew Dragon?
@@commonsenseskeptic Really exited for it's maiden flight in April, but Vulcan delays hit the timeline hard. It was supposed to be human rated in 2025 after the first launch in 2021. And I imagine NASA will take their time with human rating a space plane after the Shuttle.
Billions still believe in the bible there will always be easily brainwashed people
So basically, out of the three teams space X was the weakest link. And they gave the contract to the weakest link. All because Elmo is frinds with a nasa member.
Has happened before. That is what happened with the original Space Shuttle Main Engine program, where they gave the contract to the vendor whose engine proposal blew up on the stand over the other two, successfully tested, engine proposals.
@@downix really, the RS-25. Isn't that one of the most reliable engines ever made?
@@SquadTwelve12 The RS-25 is radically different from the original SSME proposal, the HG-3, and was redesigned many times during the development process. The HG-3 blew up on the stand at least twice before selection I am aware of.
For comparison, the other two proposed engine bases, P&W LR-129 and Aerojet AJ-500, were lower risk proposals, being derived from engines originally developed for other programs, and had more maturity at the time the contract was awarded.
@@Mentaculus42 I am a random commenter on UA-cam. I just know people who ran the test stands, and heard all about the issues of the HG-3. The SSME itself had many unscheduled rapid disassembly incidents on the stand multiple times before they got it right. That's not a dig against the engine, just describing the development process.
I double checked my memory and it does appear to be correct, with the final SSME not achieving a full duration burn on the test stand until March 24, 1980, 13 years after the first HG-3 engine test blew up on the stand.
@@Mentaculus42 i wasn't comparing the programs, however. I was comparing the selection process on NASAs end.
As a government procurement professional, but not in the US. This appears to be a massive failure of public procurement rules, the seemingly obvious cock ups, or deliberately fraudulent activity, is shocking to me. Great reporting, and I look forward to the part 3 conclusions.
If NASA were a private company, they would be under investigation.
Personally I wonder how much money the NASA bosses were bribed by Musk... (the existential horror that the bosses might be SO stupid to accept SpaceX's bs without receiving any financial gain, is too much for me to cope with)
deliberately fraudulent
Which country do you work in? I'm certain there is not as much corporate/govt corruption as there is in the US. Look at what's happened with Boeing recently. It used the be a premier, cutting edge corporation that made incredible, safe products. Boeing used to be run exclusively by Engineers. Now, since the economy has been financialized and regulatory bodies corrupted 100%? People will die in higher and higher numbers. Hate to say it. But the US has reached "late stage capitalism".
@zpettigrew There are levels of corruption in every country. But the US does feature highly on the list of dumpster fires we hear about. Arguably, the issue is companies / government not wanting the negative publicity from a corruption trial and frequently letting the perpetrators leave quietly. Terrible optics and encourages others to try their luck.
Congratulations to SpaceX for joining the "Too Big To Fail Club"!!
Moving forward, the government will bend over backward to give SpaceX all the benefits that should've gone to other better companies.
Wow, that's is the first comment which directly points on this feature. Basically that's the last fase of the development of any "successful" business in the US - grow up unproportionally to lend the expenses to the government in exchange of guaranteed taxpayer's money. And SpaceX pursued this goal fiercely and steadily. And succeeded, I guess...
They're too fail to big!
Heh, better companies? What, Boeing with their glorious ground-hugger Starliner and decades late, billions over-budget SLS? ...um
Or Blue Origin who still haven't reached orbit after 2 decades of development?
Or ULA with their Russian engine fiasco that has left them without any more launchers until/if Blue Origin ever delivers a working rocket motor?
Or Ariane Space, a story of corruption and govt inefficiency almost as bad as SLS and Orion?
Or Russia? Ha!
@rasimbot If you bothered to watch the video.
The better companies were "Dynetics" and "The National team."
@rasimbot It must be harder than it seems since SpaceX is so far behind with their mockups.
"A couple of weeks after retiring from NASA, it was reported that Lueders would join SpaceX as a general manager working on the Starship program at Starbase." Is this true?
yep!
@@commonsenseskeptic Who would have thought anything like that, right?
It would be good to also mention the hundreds of other NASA employees including directors who have gone through the revolving doors between NASA and Old Space companies like Boeing, Lockheed etc.
I knew that would be the case the moment I heard she retired in this video.
I think it's what the lawyers --- particularly prosecutors -- call "quid pro quo".
All together now - "TIM'S GOING TO THE MOON!" 🤣
More like "All together now - TIM'S BLOWING UP MID-FLIGHT!"
I mentioned the safety risks and Space X suspect safety capability he came down on me giving me a rebuke and I was only concerned about his safety.
As an ex Boeing Quality Assurance inspector 1980s to 2013 I was concerned with all these red flags Space X are creating.
@@LeonAust Concern trolling is generally not appreciated.
KABOOOOOM!!! 😂😂😂😂
I know I was there, still they have superior resources than Space X@@danielkrcmar5395
Isn't it funny that the sole person in a acting position that made the decision to award the contract to SpaceX is now a highly payed employee of said company. These people have no shame what so ever, they used to make an effort but no longer.
This is actually quite common in the US. Almost every DoD, EPA and FDA head retires or resigns - only to turn around and work as a VP, CEO, or lobbyist for the very corporations they were tasked with "regulating". This has destroyed all US industries and economy.
They never made an effort the "revolving door" is pretty famous. Be it politicians or their children given a place on the board of a company without ever having to turn up to that job, being hired as an advisor or for speaking engagements, or other shenanigans, there's always a way for politicians of businesses to line each others pockets
I live 15 minutes from NASA in Houston, if you've visited NASA recently you'd find large exhibits of Musk's spaceX offerings with "volunteers" fielding questions. But don't ask them about any of the design flaws with super heavy or musk's motivations and expect an answer with any kind of substance, they'll obfuscate away from the question and remind you that musk has a vision and they can't wait to see that vision come true. I was born into a cult and these people reek of blind faith. And whatever you do, don't ask them what the plan is once we've returned to the moon or get to Mars. It's all very disappointing.
The masses are easily propagandized, it's a sad state of affairs.
@@Thyalwaysseek you're telling me, I don't know how anyone paying attention and has any kind of critical thinking skills with alittle empathy sprinkled on top can walk around not depressed.
@@a_life_painted_with_color It comes from a place of cowardice, they don't want to know the truth because then they'll be forced to act on it.
Growing up I had a next door neighbor who was a senior rocket scientist for general dynamics, later Hughes missile system and then finally Raytheon. He designed the servo guidance systems, anyways he was a father figure to me and on occasion we'd watch the evening news together. Whenever a story would come on that showcased a person whom, let's say made poor life decisions, He would turn to me and say "you know I've probably forgotten more than that guy's ever known" he would follow-up a couple minutes later with "that's a jerky thing to say, right?" Anyways, I can't help but hear those words anytime I watch Musk speak in public or in an interview. I realize it's a pretty egocentric thing to think or say even but man is it ever cathartic.
That's a pretty cool story. Thanks for sharing that.
Musk fans like Kathy must do some strange mental gymnastics!
All the way to the bank.
She is probably getting a job on one of Elon Musk's scams.
Edit: wrote too soon. She already did.
No mental exercise required when you're a corrupt official. It's all about who's offering the biggest "incentive"!
This is important coverage of how our tax dollars are being carelessly misused. Thanks for covering this.
Not carelessly misused. Intentional fraud for personal gains and benefits. I.e. flat out corruption out in the open.
It's not ur money it's government money.
Um, so the $4 billion per launch of SLS plus the tens of billions cost and overruns and decade late SLS and Orion doesn’t worry you?
And you’re worried about the couple of billion awarded to SpaceX and the extremely low tens of millions launch cost for Starship?
I think you (and CSS) need to get some perspective.
@@Mike-xw4gm I really, really, really hope you are joking 😂
@@andrewfranklin7087 How about we put it like this. I will happily believe in musk AS SOON as he actually delivers these tens of millions cost starships, which are safe enough for human crew. As it stands, his starship launches have all blown up or self destructed or otherwise. I'll believe it when i see it. However, until musk can prove these safe rockets only cost tens of millions and be human rated, I'm more inclined to believe that the contract should've gone to one of them other two teams, who both had functioning mock ups. Its not that we have a problem with space x, we have a problem with it's failure to deliver, and even if it didn't fail, the fact that leuter joined space x right after she resigned from NASA is worth looking into. Space flight is expensive, yes. Which is precisely why we want to invest that money in the most rational, PROVEN choice. Space x unfortunately just isn't there yet. Not for the hundreds of millions of dollars in awards its gotten.
Imagine having one of the greatest space programs in the history of humanity and throwing it in the trash for Reddit gold.
Can you explain the connection with Reddit? I’m halfway through the video, but I’m reading comments during it because ADHD.
I’m unable to connect one of the greatest space programs with Reddit.
Will delete if the video brings it up.
Thank you!
@@mist3h greatest space program = nasa. Redditors = types of people associated with fans of elon musk
@@zwicker5585 oh, I’m a Redditor of 11 years and missed that memo 😅 I do like me some NASA space program!
@@zwicker5585did you read Reddit??! They have a blast even in pro Elon subs.
Laugh at the truck and the 56b wine. Most expensive wine you ever get 🍷
@@FizzleFX youll have to fill me in on the 56b wine!
I was really upset when I heard NASA selected the Starship as their lunar lander. Cause I knew it meant we wouldn’t be landing on the moon until NASA realise Starship will never be viable.
Golden Era of fraud...
The age of arrested development.
If you're talking about SLS at $4 billion per launch once a year, then yes, the fraud is horrific.
And it's in your face fraud... they are just laughing at the world....
That's why I keep thinking a big reset is coming. This is unsustainable
Yup, from circa 1650 unto whenever capitalism ends. 👍
@@andrewfranklin7087 Saturn V cost per launch in 1969 was 185 million USD, today it would be over 1.23 billion USD. Considering that Artemis program has different goals it's pretty close.
If you want to continue b*tching about cost, consider comparison of cost for per launch for Soyuz and for Dragon. Be advised that Dragon launch should have been already cheaper, but it's not so it achieved only exclusivity for US astronauts. Look it up.
It's brutal irony that the flight readiness review waiver was extended to the company actively blowing up test articles.
think of the trees it will save....
Perhaps because SpaceX has shown with Flacon 9 development that "blowing up test articles" is actually the quickest and cheapest way to get results. Flacon 9 with 300 launches under its belt is now the most successful in history.
@@andrewfranklin7087 you sure about that theory? NASA waives readiness reviews because Space X is too efficient? That's your position?
@@andrewfranklin7087NASA isn’t going to the moon with the falcon 9 rocket, they’re supposed to be going with starship. Remind us again how many successful Launches starship has had?
@@Colombiaguapo So how many posts did you make that SpaceX would never succeed getting orbital back when the first three Falcon 1 orbital launches failed spectacularly?
How many times did you criticise Musk that he’d never deliver on his promise to land a rocket before the 20th Falcon 9 launch that finally succeeded landing?
And how much grief did you give Musk before they succeeded in landing a booster on a barge out at sea after the 4th explosive attempt?
I think you need to get some perspective on your critiques and realise SpaceX very successfully implements the Agile “fail fast, fail often” model and has dominated the Space industry as a result meaning that Starship blowing up is just SpaceX successfully implementing the same developmental model as the wildly successful Falcon 9.
Can’t wait for part 3 😩😩😩
Now on the edge of my seat for Part III!❤
Lueders took lots of liberties with public money. Let alone civil pursuits, prison should be on the table.
We all know that corrupt fascists are only rewarded in America and never have a bad day.
She should be in prison.
Yeah, the SpaceX proposal was very ambitious and unrealistic, but then so was the Hyperloop, and look how that turned out!
I am currently sitting on it, it works perfectly, as well as the 10g Internet, the have.
Hyperloop diverted 450 million in 2016 from conventional commuter rail plans in California that would have thwarted expressway expansion and car sales including Tesla. Mission accomplished.
Hyperloop was super successful. It was successful at disrupting California's aspirations to lay down high speed rail. Just like anything this buffoon does, Musk only does projects to get social media attention, spite competition or bust worker solidarity.
The criticism of SpaceX was a bit light, but the favoritism was accurate.
Love when NASA breaks its own rules to give the guy who owns the worst car maker in the country a contract that involves human lives.
Worst car maker in the country? You never heard of Chrysler? LOL
Anyway, don’t give Elon so much credit for Tesla. The cars are a success because of the hard work of a lot of people involved, not because of the vapor ware salesman among the executives.
@@Crono454 i mean they are unsafe and poorly made. i have a friend who works in vehicle safety, teslas do not do well
@@DarkPuppy9 model S and 3 and Y all broke safety standard records as some of the safest tests ever , you’re taking the piss. It’s easy to verify the facts.
Poorly made and unsafe are not the same thing.
I’m not a Tesla owner or apologist but you’re simply contradicted by the facts
No they didnt lass some musk rats are easily fooled
IIHS top safety picks for Model 3 and Model Y 😂
Listen, I know the doors don’t open regularly because of the misaligned panels and poor quality or flawed actuators. But crash safety is literally not one of the concerns of the popular Tesla models .
I don’t drive a Tesla. I don’t own a Tesla. Elon is a fucking scammer. You’re just factually wrong.
Wow! CCS, this was intense. I'm so happy to follow this channel.
Really the biggest problem to me is that NASA has not been able to release a reasonable schedule for the lunar landing of Artemis. If everything goes perfectly, we are at least at 2026. Today, we still have no SS Heavy successful launch. No demonstrated orbital fuel depot. No demonstrated ability to refuel in orbit. My favorite bit of all of this is that the SpaceX team and fans seem to treat space launches like Agile software. Fail fast right? So, how many launches do we have until we have refuel testing in orbit. 10? 20? At the current pace of SS Heavy development, we are looking at 2030 or so.
I denote a slight whiff of skepticism...
2030 is a lot of failures. But it seems like a fair estimate.
@@henke37 I think you are missing a key piece of a more realistic timeframe. The current plan requires 16 launches to do the moon mission. How do we think that this is going to take less than 1 month per mission? With problems, is 2 months more likely? At 2 months, it takes about 2.5 years to do the mission.
SpaceX didnt even provide a human ready mockup of SS. They are still flying steel cans. What you have come to realize is that all massive projects tend to have a huge delay in schedule due mostly because nobody has the courage to challenge anything and incompetence. Musk companies are notorious for over promising and under delivering on time.
Nazi engineers with slide rule calcuators went to the moon in 8 years.
Thats why everybody hates them, they made everybody else look really bad.
Almost impossible for me to watch it is so enraging! The corruption is beyond belief but the real kick in the balls is that nothing will ever be done to any of these thieves. Nothing is ever done to these liars and thieves which is why they keep doing what they do. Zero accountability. Zero repercussions.
Are you not aware of the VASTLY worse SLS, Orion, Starliner fiascos?
Vastly worse? No, I was not aware of "vastly worse". The shuttle was an incredible machine, first of its' kind. SPacex is a con job lead by the biggest lying conman the planet has ever seen. Musk is so full of shit on every level it is sickening. I expect anything associated with him or any company he has his shitty little fingers in to be a scam. Spacex and tesla are ONLY alive because of the US taxpayer handouts. Clearly that is not enough as lying elon needs to bribe people within NASA to filter even more money into spacex. @@andrewfranklin7087
Learning how to read court documents is critical and for the most part, have plain english. Your presentation is instructive. Thank you for doing this.
Woa, this is very dense in information. Thanks for sharing
There’s an easy fix. SpaceX has to load up their entire management on their rockets and launch according to the original plan.
Well done and informative video of how the private contract space race is proceeding with taxpayer money.
I always have to laugh when I see the "gateway to mars" sign at their launch site.
Can you vandalize it to say "gateway to farts"? For me? For humanity?
More like 'Heaven's Gateway' to Mars.
☠️ 👀
Seeing the Starship launch failures and hearing SpaceX speakers, crowd and Musk celebrate it - is exactly like when North Korea talks about their "achievements" in technology.
Let's face it. Disguising and obfuscating deceitful intention within ponderous legal documentation is one of the things that Elon Musk seems to do best, if his previous track record is anything to go by.
Well, people he hires are good at it, anyway.
He isn't personally good at anything.
@@TerrenceNowicki Musk is a fantastic conman.... okay, well, he *used* to be a fantastic one. He's kinda made the mistake of hanging around too long so he's going to watch everything crumble around him.
@@InfernosReaper I agree. He has talent in the same way that someone like SBF has talent. Reminds me of the movie called the talented Mr Ripley.
@@InfernosReaper Being a good conman requires presentation skills, though. I mean, have you seen his presentations dating back as far as 2017? Probably the worst public speaking I've ever seen. He's always stammered more than Reginald Barclay from Star Trek: The Next Generation.
@@TerrenceNowicki Ah, but you see, *that* is a gimmick to make himself *seem* genuine to people who are expecting conman to be talking like they rehearsed their pitch a million times before stepping up to the presentation.
The idea that you're going to take what is essentially your entire fully loaded launch vehicle and land it on the soft lunar surface with no landing struts and take off again is so ridiculous on the face of it, I don't know how the proposal ever got past the laughter stage. And now Musk claims they are going to make it even bigger.
The „shell concept“ worked with Jules Verne and was „invented“ in a time where a lot of Elon’s brilliant idea are coming from.
I've seen declassified TOP SECRET documents with fewer redactions.
So not only does he have to provide the multiple versions of a spacecraft that hasn’t flown without blowing up or even reached orbit safely, but he needs to provide them with 14, and also a refuelling Station in orbit which has never been done, which isn’t up there, which also would need to be fuelled in order for it to be used as a petrol station. I mean but what Point is aspirational dreaming, just living in fucking cuckoo land. Either tied themselves to a lead weight, or a death trap waiting to go off.
And, the entire time that imaginary tanker is in orbit, for 180 days, boil off is going to be huge issue.
There's just nothing about this system that seems well-thought-out.
Except that SpaceX is aiming to launch tankers with a far higher frequency.
Elon Musk (plagiarizing): “The best part is no part”
Also Elon Musk: “Let me show you my mission plan consisting on a fast sequence of 14+ successful launches of a vehicle we haven’t put in orbit yet”
@@andrewfranklin7087Plans to =\= will
SpaceX is way behind schedule already
@@andrewfranklin7087 first principles!
Elmo latching on public money to finance his personal projects? I have seen that one
Only Elon Musk can make me feel indignation on behalf of Jeff Bezos. This is a completely insane failure of NASA and the GAO. If the budget was changed they should have gone back to the offerers and reset the project scope and deliverables, possibly even start the process over.
So space x should of never been given this contract and should be forced to pay money back and contract going to other 2.
There's another contract going to Blue Origin as we speak.
What, you want more multi-billion dollar boondoggles like SLS, Orion, Starliner, Constellation etc etc?
@@andrewfranklin7087 At least SLS has already flown around the moon compared to musk crap that still explodes.
Even though that system is over expensive it is reporting all costs instead of musk faking it.
@@andrewfranklin7087Well blue origin was happy to eat a large chunk of the fees.
So they could have accepted the agreement and give them less with remaining going to the other contract.
@@zaco-km3suspace x should be told to pay back every penny for that explosive tin can.
thanks to space ex program is getting delayed even more.
let's take falcon 9 astronauts to space station that had massive delay of multiple years.
So it's likely same will happen for moon mission even with other contracts
If I was american, I would be very mad about this apparent corruption and subsequent delay/failure of any HLS missions.
If SpaceX has failed even the current contract conditions, then they should be forced to repay the money and not be awarded any contracts from NASA anymore. Let Musk throw away money that isn't tax payers until that runs dry too...
What can they do? Their entire government on both sides is completely corrupted.
Moved on to sadness and acceptance.
On May 15, 2023, a couple of weeks after retiring from NASA, it was reported that Lueders would join SpaceX as a general manager working on the Starship program at Starbase. She reports directly to SpaceX president and COO Gwynne Shotwell.
Great video, I'm leaving a comment to support your channel. Keep up the good work!
Well, Kathy Lueders is now employed by Space X. She sure doesn't fear any consequences from her biased actions.
Looking forward to Part 3. And great to have you back after that break! 😊
The corruption right there in front of our faces.
She bought herself a cushy job with taxpayer money.
>Well, Kathy Lueders is now employed by Space X.
She's General Manager of "Starbase." No fishy backroom deals here, no sir.
There needs to be a moratorium on Govt employees leaving govt jobs for jobs in the industry they dealt with in Govt. I thinks it is called a conflict of interest. Happens with the FDA and EPA as well and it sucks.
@@Costa_Connespecially after awarding large contracts to those same companies… let alone directly managing the project she awarded.
Not even sure how she didn’t have to at least walk through a courtroom before changing offices.
Part 2 out so quick? Big ups my man!
This is all just one big slap in the face to the Apollo program as a whole... I mean it should have been given the big rubber "Fail" stamp as soon as NASA saw that rendering of Starship upright on the moon.
I was reminded of the rocket from Wallace and Gromit: A grand day out. I looked up images of it only to find that the claymation landing system looks far less outlandish than that proposed by SpaceX.
Real missed opportunity by Aardman to have a comical bit with the crane. "Oops, we built the cab too high!"
Right? I can't get over how we were able to do this over half a century ago with rudimentary computers, paper, and pencils yet we're struggling to do it now with decades of scientific and technological progress, super computers, 3D models, computer simulations... corruption is insidious
I've known what was shown in these videos from other sources, but they were disparately covering this. Thanks for aggregating it
Phenomenal videos man, excited for the next one
Nasa bigwigs gone crazy
Thanks for reporting on this css 😊
Excellent work
I personally knew a guy who was a senior manager for Apollo and was credited for inspiring the shuttle, and I am glad he didn’t live to see this insanity. He would be disgusted by Musk.
@@rasimbot
Why wouldn't he be? Do you think Musk didn't involve himself in this corruption? Because there's *no **_real_* argument that this is _not_ corruption... Only _who..._
i love your show so much i stayed away for a few weeks so i could watch a few in one day.
so much research goes into these i must admin it would have to be a full time job
i appreciate this so much
thank you Common Sense Skeptic and Crew : )
Kathy Lueders, the Source Selection Authority who picked SpaceX, was appointed by Bridenstine, who was an advocate to open up NASA to commercial companies. Bridenstine was praised by the Commercial Spaceflight Federation and he have a working relationship with Elon Musk since at least 2019. Lueders is now retired from NASA since April 2023 and joined SpaceX as a general manager. Coincidence?
God I love this channel! It is so evident how much passion and effort is put into each video!
I will say though that the hard truths have had me questioning my reality haha. Keep up the good work!
Glad you like them!
Holy shit - Kathy WORKS FOR SPACEX NOW
She was on $190k to $200k a year at Nasa. I wonder if being the general manager at Spacex 'starbase' pays more than that. Wouldn't that be a coincidence?
The sad thing is that in spite of insider corruption in defense contracts , often they result in aeroplanes that actually fly. But the Spacex mess is a total write off.
If you think 1 Trillion for the F-35 is worth it.
@@bgeardigital This is something that annoys me as I am 100% certain you have no idea where that value comes from as most who spout it have no idea. That value came from a DOD document on long term procurement from 2005(it might have been 7) up to 2065 where they calculated the long term costs of keeping the F-18, F-15 and F-16 up to that time span; keeping them in service would have cost a minimum of 4.8 Trillion USD, with the DOD noting that this is a lowball due to increasing costs of making base equipment that old.
With it then being calculated for the F-35 being a total program cost up to that same time fram of 2065 being the 1.6 Trillion USD across everything involcing the aircraft up to that point; development, procurement and upgrades. And consider the USAF, USN and USMC praise the aircraft. So unless you think you know more than the DOD it is better to go with the cheaper option in this case.
It's a system run by profiteers however they calculate the bill. Let engineers run it for the win.
I’ve had the same incline that Starship won’t be ready and that Blue Origins proposal will be the one that wins out. This realization came down to seeing that Starship is years away from being ready to be rated safe for humans to use.
Ahem, StarShip has actually flown hardware unlike Blue Origin who haven’t even put *anything* into orbit even though they started years before SpaceX who has now launched 300 successful orbital flights with Falcon 9.
@@andrewfranklin7087Starship hasn't reached orbit, either.
@@TerrenceNowicki Starship has gotten closer to orbit than any Blue Origin hardware. And Starship should make it all the way to orbit in a few weeks.
Doesn't matter if Blue Origin wins in the end. We the taxpayers will still be out billions of dollars.
@@SpaceAdvocate This isn't horseshoes. Closer doesn't count. Actually making it into orbit and completing the objectives does.
Oh goody! I got caught up trying to heat up my house & then passed out (from lack of sleep 😂).
Love it when there's new upload from you guys though, ESPECIALLY first thing in the morning. ❤
Thanks a million CSS! ❤
This explains so much, saddened that procurement has been blundered about so much.
But that's the hilarious part, it's not blundered. Lueders was corrupt from the beginning and the GAO are just protecting their friend. During this video I was waiting for the, but what's in it for her. Well we got it, she just got hired into SpaceX. I'd be interested to see her bank statement when a Court investigation is started in her corrupted activities.
Amazing detail, as usual, man! Much respect for your dedication.
I was going to relax take a soak in my tub listen to part 2 and go to bed early tonight 5 or 6 minutes later I'm screaming at my speaker, sloshing water about the bathroom no chance of an early bedtime tonight. But I would rather be informed, to know the truth than to muck around in ignorance. I'm off tomorrow so I can sleep in. Thanks for this. I'm getting real tired of musk ripping off my country.
Thank you! Hope this madness comes to an end.
For $3 billion dollars I bet I could drag the remaining Saturn 5 rocket out of the musuem and have it on the moon before starship finishes it 17 launches.
I don't know about that, but Blue Origin also needs to launch New Glenn 10 times for their lander so I don't see why people keep complaining about SpaceX but not the competition...
fabuluous and breathtaking no words...
All those tweets about "merit" and "unfair treatment." What a freakin' criminal.
Also how come the lander doesn't have the long fins that double as landing gear, like in the bugs bunny cartoon? I think that's the aesthetic he was going for.
The Tintin _Destination Moon_ starship had superior markings for visual tracking too. SpaceX could have at least given artistic nod to the inventor of their craft.
@@pong9000Ha!
Wikipedia: "On May 15, 2023, a couple of weeks after retiring from NASA, it was reported that Lueders would join SpaceX as a general manager working on the Starship program at Starbase."
Give me the contact Kathy and I'll pay you a few million a year. We'll call it a job but you'll never need to do any work.
"End the practice of awarding business on the basis of price tag. Instead, minimize total cost. Move toward a single supplier for any one item, on a long-term relationship of loyalty and trust" W. Edwards Deming
Love your work. Thank you for your efforts.
Many thanks!
This is the golden era of frauds and con men in many areas. But it will pass, periods like that happen from time to time. Thank you for everything that you do! ❤️
It will pass? Because evil and corrupt men just decide one day not to be evil and corrupt? No it won't pass until our entire way of life is destroyed.
@@Thyalwaysseek I mean to sometimes con artists' attacks are more intense, you know attack many areas of life, but then they go silent and then again, some new ones, kind of circles.
@@mikibanic The evil corrupted people in control of our world have not been silent for centuries.
I won't say it's only an American affliction. Curious to note which countries are immune to this. Which countries crack down hard on corruption even executing the worst examples.
@@pong9000 Saudi Arabia. They excuse con artists and derelic of duty for personal gain carries death penalty most cases depending how severe it is.
To be honest: HLS competition went wrong from the very beginning - and should have no winner. Every single competitor has shown extremely raw underdesigned solutions (like Dinetics option to be found to have negative TWR, or Blue Origin messed up with CoM and or thermal regulation - Starship isn't mentioned because of absolutely obvious reasons). Now, when Starship failed up both launches even the most optimistic evaluations done before by NASA's officials cannot be taken seriously. I was surprised (in a good sense of this word) by the latest video on SmarterEveryDay channel about his "talkie talk" which took place in American Astronomical Society dedicated to the Artemis/HLS and return to the Moon in general. I heavily recommend to watch because Destin takes the subject seriously but understandable for a wide range of listeners. A truly remarkable one. People are starting questioning - maybe a little bit late but nonetheless. And it will be good if such opinions could resonate to shatter the white noise built by mainstream media around certain topics and personalities.
Just a slight nitpick. You must mean sub-unity TWR. Negative would be if they accidentally mounted the engines in reverse 🤭.
@@Marci124 He actually means negative mass margin, which is something else entirely. It means the mass budget didn't add up, and has nothing to do with the TWR.
@@SpaceAdvocate ah yes, you are right. For some reason I'm misused terminology - I remember that Dinetics miscalculated mass, so difference between predicted mass and allowed mass became negative. Then something something weight - and let me introduce TWR.
Maybe what was wrong from the beginning is that few serious people actually want HLS. I mean, we talk about another moon landing the way pretentious snobs talk about their rapturous appreciation of fine English poetry, that transports them to the sublime. It's preformative. Who is genuinely geeky-keen for another moon landing? We think we ought to be but are we truly?
Blue Origin has a new bigger lander design now, but it needs around 10 New Glenn launches.
The best solution IMO is to use starship to refill the Blue Origin lander. That way you only need 3 launches.
I'm amazed that a company that has decades of space flight experience and is the only company to put people on the moon would do business with an average low orbit company. In Ireland stuff like this happens because of the brown envelope
Take the apocryphal story of asking a cleaning lady at 1960s NASA what she's doing and getting a legendary, inspirational answer. I wonder what the cleaning lady at SpaceX would say.
Ever see Family Guy?
@@commonsenseskepticno no nooo....
50 years ago we could send 3 men to the moon and back again. Now we need 16 refueling launches just to send 1 ship to the moon. Apparently technical progress stopped in 1972. WTF?
Crew Dragon is still old school Pacific Ocean splashdown too.
Apollo was only able to get a few tons of cargo to the Lunar surface by throwing away a multi-billion rocket every time.
Starship promises to get 100-150 tons to the lunar surface using a fully reusable rocket. Big difference.
A few orbital refuelling flights is hardly a big deal when each flight will only cost a few million dollars.
Unlike the $4 billion per launch cost of the throw-away SLS.
@@andrewfranklin7087"Starship *promises* ..." There is your red flag. Also the price. If Elon Musk promises anything, take it with a big grain of salt.
@@andrewfranklin7087 Ah yes, fully reusable rocket system. Which so far has resulted in only one launch that didn't explode during flight or landing. And that one 'success' was turned into scrap metal.
Yep, it sure is nice to have a "fully reusable" system. (sarcasm)
And before you go on about Falcon9, any time it needs to do more than low orbit delivery... just how much reusable is that system?
In short, fully reusable is akin to 'full self driving' by Tesla. Neither of them being adjacent to facts.
@@andrewfranklin7087 same guy who promised the hyperloop was cheaper than HS rail, that he could build tunnels 10x cheaper than competitors and has a decade long track record of over promising and under delivering, or not delivering at all. Remember how he promised getting to Mars and start building a colony by mid 2020s? Instead he has yet to show that he can leave LEO and come safely back.
Good luck trusting the accounting math of a guy who runs the most successful pump and dump scheme in history.
I can't wait for part 3. Did I miss something or did anybody mention the first person singular "I, Kathryn Lueders" began working for SpaceX immediately after retiring for NASA??
After checking, I see, Ultralord picked up on that in comments on part 1, but think it bears mentioning more than once. Can anyone spell conflict of interest?
It's coming.
Fire a person for problematic Myspace statements made as teens in 2004 but don't judge when Lueders promptly exits the revolving door to SpaceX salary and benefits. Don't judge!
Wait a heckin' sausage. Out of 3 companies, two designed and built a test article, but the one that didnt even have their design in a physical form was given the contract somehow? I would also be annoyed.
Great video as always! Is the full Spaces interview available anywhere?
We did a video on it: ua-cam.com/video/mr1N9CcvKXM/v-deo.html
Do you have a link the public paper you are using in this video?
cdn.geekwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/blue-origin-complaint.pdf
Great video.
Glad you enjoyed it
Traditional Contractor tactics.. Set lowest price, get selected and then keep getting more money. I wondering how much cost Starship (all development costs) in comparison to space shuttle
Oh my word... I have been wondering about this for a while now. I simply could not understand how NASA would enter into a Mission Plan with immense operational and logistic complexity. I mean that is the major (and completely unmitigated) problem I see with Starship and Deep Space missions. You need an entire campaign of launches just to pre-stage propellent in orbit, before just one Starship can embark for a distant orbit. Having a propellent depot in orbit, means there are tight launch windows you must target for the rendezvous. On top of that, the Artemis launch windows open only during certain parts of the month for sun positioning and communications. And finally, you'll also have usual flight hardware issues, ground equipment failures, and weather restrictions that could scrub launches and further hinder the campaign to put propellent in orbit. It's kinda crazy.
They did 96 launches last year with falcon 9 so I can see why they decided to do this...
Blue Origin on the other hand will also need a crazy number of launches for their lander but they have not even reached orbit yet.
How the mighty have fallen, what the fuck has NASA become? And how is this the decision of ONE person in NASA?
Kathy Leaders just secured a job at Space X, fancy that.
Holy shit Lueders would be in jail in any fair world.
Blowing Musk in his cell...
SpaceX - The Tesla in the air, and beyond!
Surely there's a strong indication of corruption here.
I will really enjoy your video on Starship blowing the last time and putting this fraud to the end.
How is this lady that chose spaceX not in jail? She pretty much gave several BN of taxpayer's money without any ground, but she obviously ignored many regulations to do so
Great video as always! I was sent a video critical of Musk by James Corbett. There was some discussion of the "Musk / Iron Man PsyOP". The political corruption you have brought up with Musk and SpaceX makes me think there may be something quite serious and nefarious behind Musks public image here. Is there? May be something to cover in a video?
I hope someday to have a useful (or at least witty) comment to contribute.
Use AI! :D
Good things take time....don't rush it.
You're doing fine there. ;)
Do we know if there are fines for failing to honor the awarded contract? What if Lueders did this knowing that Spacex was going to fail? The Artemis mission funds were cutted and surerly not enough to fund the mission. A delay in the exectution of the mission is inevitable. This move could buy some time and funds, IF there are fines for breaching the contract. I am just playing the Devil's advocate here.
How is SpaceX gonna pay those fines? They are primarily a Nasa funded operation and are currently running on fumes.
how did they lose this lawsuit?
Judge tossed it back to GAO.
@@commonsenseskeptic That’s effectively a loss; the GAO is not going to open the process back up to all of the offerors.
The reason for the case being dismiss is sealed, is that normal?
Where Musk and legal cases are concerned, he's pretty much allowed to run roughshod over anybody he likes. All we can do is hope at some point in the future that he meets a judge that puts a stop to it, and the best we've seen so far is Kathleen St Jude McCormick, who forced him to follow through with his Twitter purchase. She put up with exactly zero nonsense from Musk.
Once the first major domino falls, the others should start leaning as well.
Imagine having a space agency and instead of doing the thing itself they burn money on some private business. Should've just kept the 2 billion and done the lander themselves
Watching this video made me re-think my life priorities.
So, it wasn't "awarded", it was "handed" over without a serious due process.
I guess it's just a coincidence that Lueders is now employed by SpaceX - right?
She was sitting at home after retiring and suddenly felt the urge to be in charge for space again.
she: s p a c e
Google: SpaceX (promoted link)
You see, it‘s corporate tech‘s fault 😂
BTW, is‘nt it funny that all these people seeing corruption in every decent person in office today, are turning out to have hands on experience in said topic.
Hmm, the Kathy Lueders Space Telescope ... it's got a ring to it.
Just came to my mind:
I heard the story about Sputnik, where one US team already had a competitor before, but had to wait until the preferred team failed long enough. The Russians speed up that decision by „beep…beep…beep“ 😂 and finally the team that sent people to the moon was allowed to take over.
Sputnik did more than just beep. Encoded in those beeps was data about its surroundings (temperature and pressure readings). The USSR also had a whole bunch of other firsts in space including first to land a spacecraft on another planet so, in my mind, they deserve a lot more credit than you seem to be implying.
Just to clarify, I’m not saying the USSR are good or that the USA is bad or whatever. Simply that we should give credit where it is due 😊
"the team that sent people to the moon was allowed to take over"
Dumb ameritard showing his stupidity.
There was no spacerace, this is just copium invented by ameritards such as yourself because the soviets beat you in terms of space advancements
@@bear4278
I was just writing about the US timeline. In fact I don’t know any details about Sputnik besides being first and it’s rough shape.
@@fromgermany271 Na, you are all good 🤗 I reckon most people in the west don’t know much at all about the Soviet space program (I know I didn’t until relatively recently) which is why I mentioned it 🤗
Once I did learn all the cool stuff they did though, I have a whole lot of respect for what the cosmonauts and engineers managed to do!
I recall Boeing lost a military tanker contract as well as disqualified from the lander program because they were trying to get insider info to give them an edge. Yet somehow SpaceX gets a complete pass.
“Something is rotten in the State of Denmark.”
Apologies im oblivious to your comment... What is it about may i ask?
@@slevingaiusits a reference to the Shakespeare play “Macbeth”
@@slevingaius This is a line from Shakespeare’s Hamlet. It’s used as an idiom to express suspicion of corruption - especially political corruption.
Who we need to be listening to is "Mr. Scott!" "Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
If that isn't corruption, I don't know what is.
This kind of corruption is so basic that you expect this stuff in Russia. American corruption is usually a bit more clever.