12 years later, ride 1
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- Опубліковано 7 лют 2023
- [Ep. 974] A ride in 's-Hertogenbosch from the north-east - the former village of Empel - to the city centre in 2010 and 2022. See also • 12 years later, 10 rid...
Changes:
roundabout upgrade at 06:57
crossing upgrade at 09:15
street redesign from 14:27
Remarkably the same, small improvements like added curb protection...this speaks to the resilience of Dutch bicycle infrastructure - well thought out, no major mistakes. We in Canada likes to dig up the roads every few years and leave it unfinished just to amuse our car commuters! Enjoyed the sequel.
Great job! It's nice to see how many of the small fledgling trees in the first video have now grown up.
I spent the most fun I’ve had in my lifetime cycling many of these routes on a 5 week vacation some 6 years ago…loved every single km of it.
It's amazing that simply showing the 30 or so seconds starting at 18:40 isn't enough to convince anyone that bicycles are inherently better in cities. They are clearly safer, more maneuverable and have better sightlines than cars. The difference is staggering.
I imagined for a moment at 18:56 what it would be like if instead of bicycles, these people were in cars. Trying to maneuver between people walking three abreast, an couple walking their dog, a man slowly riding with his kid in their cargobike. Then when they hit the construction I was just amazed, it went so smoothly and seamlessly. Drivers can't do this with hundreds of speed limits, passing restrictions, lane width indications, paint and more. Beautiful, really. How they perform this small social dance to get where they're going, no danger, no anger, no violence. Who wouldn't want this?
I must say, even cycling there feels out of place.
great job at keeping the 2 videos in sync over a decade apart :)
I've often wondered how Dutch rear rack passengers mount, dismount and stay on, as I don't think I've ever seen it done by folk older than about 8 years old in the UK. 19:25 shows an example of a graceful dismount which looks so effortless. I'd have probably face planted into the pavement if it been me!
Thanks for filming this series Mark - it's always so inspiring to see cities in NL constantly making incremental improvements to what are already incredibly well-functioning streets!
Meanwhile here in the UK, my home city - which is the same size as Groningen - only has a few off-road unmaintained bike paths leftover from when Labour were last in government, hardly any pedestrian crossings (even at major intersections) and a failed private bus 'network' which has lost 70% of its services since 2010. Almost everyone drives even for short distances of less than 1km - this means our air quality is terrible, our traffic jams are constant, our population is increasingly obese, and our city centre has no vibrancy or life as people only drive to out-of-town malls to do their shopping or even to get a coffee from a drive-through Starbucks. I look at your country and weep!
And if it's anything like my bit of the UK, even when local councils do say they'll improve cycling/wheeling/walking, the feasibility studies, consultations and constant redesigns means many years and thousands of pounds are spent without any infrastructure actually appearing. It is disheartening looking back through district & county council archives over roughly the same period as this video and seeing hints of schemes that then quietly fall by the wayside, with constant talk of needing to tackle air quality and do more to support active travel in the town. Cycle paths mooted & vanish, developers dangling walking infrastructure carrots that never happen, bridges offered local enterprise funding but then scuppered by nimbies, etc, etc. Gah!
My bit of the country is even worse - our 'transport and infrastructure lead' publicly says we don't need footpaths/cycle lanes/crossings, and doesn't even apply for the meagre funding available! I'd rather have a council that at least tried - although having lived in Manchester for many years, I know how frustrating the endless consultations and scrapped plans can be. Sadly I don't think the country can ever hope to make progress in this area without an absolutely massive change in our political system - such a shame!
Wonderful set of comments about UK. 100% correct. I also lay blame at organisations such as Sustrans and Cycling Uk or whatever they are called. They are weak. They are too cosy with a few government scraps now and then. They should be revolutionary and be far far more ambitious. The NCN is a joke and a disgrace.
@@mikeowen3478 Yes, I totally agree!
A great first episode this serie. An enjoyable and informative duo-drive.
it was already good 12 years ago
Its cool how so much, yet so little, can change, in such short of a time span and you where there to actually film it. AWESOME!
Thank you, Mark! It is a very interesting idea to compare how it was then and how it has become now.
By and large, nothing has changed (why change the good).
I still admire your country!
Yeah, there are more scooters now..
I love the way so many Dutch cyclists have a passenger on the back. Cycling: bring a friend :)
Hov: biking style.
you're really not supposed to do that but we do anyway lol
6:23 lol even the motoscooter is still there
Very nice bike tour, have a nice week my friend, i love explore too! 💚✨
Bicycles, ebikes, electric cargo bicycles, robo taxis and escooters are great options for last mile, short distance travel.
Reduced transportation costs and fossil fuels free transportation.
Cities need to do more to encourage people to ride bicycles by providing SAFE, PROTECTED BIKE LANES and trails. Every adult and child should own a bicycle and ride it regularly. Bicycles are healthy exercise and fossil fuels free transportation. Electric bicycles are bringing many older adults back to cycling. Ride to work, ride to school, ride for health or ride for fun. Children should be able to ride a bicycle to school without having to dodge cars and trucks. Separated and protected bike lanes are required. It will also make the roads safer for automobile drivers. Transportation planners and elected officials need to encourage people to walk, bike and take public transportation. Healthy exercise and fossil fuels free transportation. In the future cities will be redesigned for people not cars. Crazy big parking lots will be transformed with solar canopies generating free energy from the sun.
There are people who cant bike.Like me!If i sit on the saddle i get much pain..And that isnt possible to repair on the sadle or me..I have perhaps biked to much,lots off kilometers in my youth..
Meanwhile my place:
Lowering Sidewalks
Removing zebra crossings
"Bikers will go on the sidewalk anyways, so we dont have to make it legal"
I like your town. It looks very vibrant!
Watching the young lady balance effortlessly on a bicycle's cargo rack, no riders smashing into things or other cyclists in crowded areas and you realize the Dutch cultural DNA is as much bicycle as it was exploration or canals and dike systems.
Why on earth would cyclists smash into things or other cyclists?
@@annaapple7452 Next video: Why bikes rarely crash into things in the Netherlands.
@@annaapple7452 Accidents honey. Mistakes, inattention. Ever heard of car crashes? It happens. But less to the Dutch because cycling is part of their culture from birth; instinct. Jesus why is everyone so freaking obtuse on social media?
@@dammitdan106 You may not have meant it that way, but saying that is often done to dismiss the idea that anything could be done to improve active travel options in other countries. That is why people who have had any possible discussion of wished-for improvements stopped repeatedly by this assertion tend to get a bit irritated by it, even if in this case you meant it for a compliment to the young lady.
The problems with saying biking (safely and agilely) is in the Dutch DNA, and people on bikes are likely to have accidents and crashes, are twofold.
1) It equates the risks of biking for transport on good infrastructure with either car travel ordangerous sports biking, which can be used to discourage people from trying to do so.
Biking for transport, the way the Dutch do it, is not a risky sport like mountainbiking on offroad trails, or racing head-down in a peloton at high speeds along a road (for both of which, Dutch riders do use helmets). The quality of the infrastructure on which they ride is good, and maintained well enough, it's not full of potholes which would create a risk of falling. That is an important part of facilitating people to ride safely, and saying they ride safely be ause of who they are denies the responsability of the road authorities to provide that safe infraztructure.
It's usually done at about the speed of someone jogging, around 10 miles per hour, in an upright position that gives a good view of possible hazards and other road users and means you won't go head-over-handlebar if you do fall. Do you worry similarly about every pedestrian or jogger?
It's seen as a bit faster and easier method of moving yourself and your stuff than walking, not as a form of 'car travel but in a smaller vehicle'. A mistake made at human-powered speed and mass is easily corrected, a bit of a wobble, maybe a touch of the brakes or a foot to the ground, without causing a crash or accident. Equating that to the risk of a mistake made at much higher speeds in a much heavier vehicle just isn't comparable.
2) It implies that the Netherlands is special, and that the option to use an active travel mode that we have built into our environment is not something that could be copied or emulated by any other country, and politicians and town councils or mayors in other placed don't need to try to do anything to improve the active travel situation for their own people, who aren't Dutch and don't have the Dutch biking DNA.
This has been effectively disproven in those places where a town has taken a firm stance to work to improve things, like Oulu in Finland (cold and snowy), Barcelona in Spain (hot), Paris France, Bogota in South America, Pontevedra and several Swiss towns (mountainous) - places very different geographically from the Netherlands. That makes the "we're not Amsterdam" rebuttal to any request for considering some improvements to bicycle infrastructure grow rather tiresome after a while, and projecting the Dutch use of bikes on the people rather than the circumstances (infrastructure, traffic laws, zoning regulation, enforcement etc.) is often the first step on that road.
@@dammitdan106 Have you ever considered that you are just wrong?
lovely to see, they have a 24hr Web-Camera on that square,
it's very cool, okay, ready for the next one
10y ago you had the infrastructure most of the other western countries can dream of in next 10y
Not all is good, some things are even worse, but still. Very enjoyable this was to see.
I can't help wishing there was a bit of narration. I think it would be interesting to hear from the host.
What does he like or dislike about the route, what should we be looking for and what does he think should be improved?
You should seek another channel, Claude. Mark is a man of few words, but he makes all of them count. Here it’s our engagement with the experience that speaks most clearly.
👍👍👍
how many kilometers were that? would be nice to know for these.
6.5km
Nice ride
the condition of the old cycling lanes is still a dream over here in Germany 😂
in our city the main cycling path has huge cracks in it every meter or so... even the cracks have cracks and the cracks of the cracks use crack on a regular basis.
makes sense though, because it is the absolutely cheapest topping on the market and it's basically a gloryfied bicycle gutter.
I'm honestly just riding on the road at this point, i obviously get honked at quite often, because: "there's a cycling path right here you idiot!!"
i just flip them off, drive to the left side of the lane and give them the signal to use the cycling path if they want to get past me.
At this point they mostly get how f**ed the cycling path is.
5:49 - Interesting that the bus stop has changed. Where in 2010 the bus could stop in a special 'bay' beside the main lane, now in 2022 the pavement has filled that space so the bus has to stop on the main lane. The only reason I can think of is giving the bus passengers a higher and wider platform to get in and off the bus. Important for mobility acces to the bus.
In 2010 the bus passengers stepped directly out of the bus on to the cycle path. Not as safe as the 2022 situation.
Next to the cycle path issue, it is also done to give the bus priority and increase safety. From the bay the bus had to negotiate a re-entry onto the main road which causes conflict with cars. In the new situation, the bus can instantly and more safely continue its journey.
@@DoomThinking - Very good point about the bus now not having to re-entry onto the road.
@@hendman4083 - Indeed. The old situation was a balancing act on a narrow strip.
@@DoomThinking Just as a note, legally the bus has right of way when re-entering the road. That said, it's still a conflict point.
Noticed that at 19:08 a strip of asphalt was added on a pedestrian street. It seems that shared space didn't work all that well.
Well, the weather got better. The bike infrastructure seemed already to be in pretty good shape in 2010, but I liked the increased height of the lane separator at 15:52 in 2022, makes it just a bit better.
exactly.
The weather got better indeed.
Some say its global warming, and us people causing it.
It might be. I am not too sure about that.
BUT...
I think it can not go fast enough, this Global Warming stuff.
I like warm weather.
I hate winters.
And so i am not unhappy about the fact that the current winters we experience are not cold enough to do iceskating.
If the so called Elf Steden Tocht never happens again, i would not shed a tear.
Tropical temperatures. I cant wait for it to reach such temperatures all year long.
And so i say: Get yourself an 8 liter 12 cilinder gas or diesel engine, and keep smoking.
The entire bridge was replaced, both sidewalk and bicycle path gained some width as well.
The municipality wanted a fancy bridge, contest, design selected, too expensive, cheaper materials, couldn't stand up to requirements, crisis, everything demolished and a simple replacement build. 😉
@@dutchman7623 ah, the Bartjesbrug from the Graafscheweg into the Hinthamereinde.
Yes, we got nice people working for the municipality. They like wasting money.
A bridge that has to be redone. A historic well in the middle of the marketplace.
A fully automatic parking garage that never worked.
Yup, happy that they are never held accountable for wasting millions and millions of taxpayers money.
@@bertjesklotepino If you live in the Netherlands and like global warming so much, better invest in a boat. 🙄
@@bertjesklotepino you do know that global warming means that the weather will get more irregular? Cold winters won't go away, just suddenly they happen in February, or March.
It also means that the Netherlands gets more flouds and droughts.
Cool. I notice at 4:18 they appear to have removed some of the blue cycle path signs in the last decade.
14:03 Interesting that the petrol station (ESSO) hasn't received a cycle bypass around the back in over a decade. I've always thought those were really neat as it's an obvious location for car-cycle conflicts. I guess they're waiting to upgrade the on-street cycle lane at the same time as tackling the petrol station.
They should have changed it, as a few years ago the area behind the ESSO station was reconstructed (not an improvement - they reduced the size of a playground and prepared the area for a housing project the people living around the place are not happy with). I don't know why they didn't.
@@annayosh The petrol station would have disappeared when the housing project had been approved.
But the entire road has already taken away a big part of the park. The old small houses have been replaced with much higher apartment blocks.
On the other side of the park car parking took away a lot. A school was demolished and instead of restoring the park to its former glory, three high apartment blocks were build, that cause extreme winds, inhabitants wanted a free view on the water so many trees had to go, in short, there is hardly anything left from the only park this side of town has. Protests against the new project that would make walking around the park impossible, and take away the last bit, were successful until now. Density is good, but not at all costs.
Compared to my youth, the park has been murdered already, playgrounds gone, deer park practically gone, flower beds gone, tea house gone, coffee house is a desaster, bird cage gone, swimming pool gone... You can look from one end to the other, hardly any of the bigger trees survived, it an open, look through, not wanting to be there place! Awful, a shame. And it's the only 'park' around.
Time to stop removing all greenery from the east side of the city!
You can also see that your filming has become better. The weather clearly is better to.
Very nice. One thing I noticed is that they removed nearly all the low curbs that bikes had to cross at the junctions - all just one smooth continuous surface now! What I don't understand is why the sidewalks only connect the busstops to the closest junction but don't continue - is there at least a sidewalk on the other side of the road? (for example at 9:20)
There is a foot path on the other side of the road (left) but nobody would really walk there. Behind the trees on the right however is a neighbourhood with quiet streets that all have a sidewalk. People would normally walk there, not next to this busy road.
needs an in-window map
So that's one of those videos where (nearly) nothing happend.
Very interesting comparison. Thanks for making these!
Around the 13:20 mark, the path seems to change from inlaid asphalt with curbs to just plain asphalt. Do you have any idea as to why this might be? It looks significantly worse, so I just assumed it was done for practical reasons.
My guess would be that it is much cheaper to not lay the curbs after renewing the asphalt. The curbs don't really serve a purpose when there is grass on either side. In fact most cycle paths I know don't have a curb when they are next to greenery.
Look closely and you see from the left curb the pavers are different permeable, the grass, then the asphalt and again row of permeable material. It saves on maintenance costs.
@@Paul_C Now that you've pointed it out, I do see the curb poking out from the edge of the path. It looks like the old path was covered with new asphalt rather than replaced, which makes perfect sense for cost-savings. Thanks!
At first I thought the grass had just overgrown the kerbs, but it seems changed indeed. No idea why. Water can now flow into the grass. We like that better nowadays. That may have been one reason. The path seems slightly wider too.
Mark, do you have a link to the old video? I would like to watch that one too.
I'm guessing it's to do with me being colorblind, but when the map is shown I don't see what route you are taking. The names are not on the map so that does make it very difficult to see.
I recommend using light and dark colors to show it, assuming it's a red/green like it was before, it would be great if you could use a dark red and a light green or a light red and a dark green.
Yeah. That's usually the way I go, or pick two entirely different colors. There's online tools which can simulate colorblindness pretty well @BicycleDutch.
@@dykam the thing is that red and green are entirely different colors. And with the amount of different types of colorblindness it's near impossible to pick two colors that work for everyone, except when working with two colors with different lightness.
@@codex4048Than you can use interrupted, dotted or flashing lines.
@@RealConstructor no? If there is black with black dots you can't see the black dots either right? That's what it looks like for me.
How is every sidewalk and bike path so smooth...meanwhile the sidewalks of my town's main street have tripping hazards (jagged or tilted surfaces) "smoothed out" with angle grinders every spring.
Because the road manager is liable for any damages as the result of bad road maintenance.......
Different priorities
@@hendman4083 Must be nice to have accountability. Roads and sidewalks just rot in the US.
Did y'all lose a bus stop?
Bike path is wider..
Lekker! Valeu! 👍
The bikes are better!They are now electronically enhanced!The light goes on automatically when its gets darker.
7:10 bus stop is gone, why ?
If you build good infrastructure, it will still be good twelve years later.
Bikers go through the red lights just like in 2010.
15:08 - 15:20
What changed is the Bartenbrug (Bridge of pastor Barten) at 15:47 , but for most viewers hardly noticeable. Lots of money wasted, and nothing to be seen.
And of course the trees have grown... and we got older too.
Hmm, I did notice it and did see the improvements made. Old Bridge VS new bridge is quite a significant change.
Not many changes, even your cycling speed.
I liked at 6:25ish when that stupid scooter went by in the 2022 video, a motorcycle went by at the same time in the 2010 video.
Good lord though, those scooters are atrocious. They're one of the worst parts of your bike infrastructure. Such a big nuisance.
Oh no! Still allowing noisy, petrol driven scooters to pollute cycle paths.