If you're prone to live chip misclicks, get in the habit of always announcing your action. This misclick actually setup a unique hand reading opportunity where we could remove a lot of the thick value hands like sets of 7s and 3s fom the villian's range since if he knew the hero was trying to raise he should be flat calling those hands.
People will say this is an easy call/snap call, and I agree. But when it comes down to it, and you are facing a 200 BB raise against your friend who is a winning player, it could be hard to call there. Especially because of the pre flop foolery…
@@rustycolon9368 fair. But you have to consider he knew the hero attempted to raise to $25. With a small pocket pair would you raise and call a 3-bet (can be treated as a 4-bet)
@@ramitarazi6268 Maybe. It's possible the hero didn't see that, or they were just looking to play the pocket 7's a bit wider or more aggro than we would expect. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility for this kind of hand though. Jamming with that board texture to me speaks to two pair or set mining. Jd10d jamming for 200bb and this player is supposedly a winning player?
@@rustycolon9368some people think way too deeply… he has so many more bluffs than only 77s. How many combinations of 77 versus the combination of bluffs can he have? Especially jamming on the turn versus calling for max value.
Great job Bart breaking down villain's pot odds and implied odds. Terrible jam by villain and great call by hero. Getting three to one with the back door flush draw is a slam dunk call. Jamming with the front door flush draw would make more sense because it would be harder to get paid. A lot of what you guys were talking about preflop as far as a tighter range might not be the case if he's raising JTs he might have 77 and 65s...
I was fully expecting the reveal to be AKss free rolling the flush draw here. I would’ve expected AA/KK to be calling turn, because of the massive removal effects of those hands to bettors range. They’d want to keep the bluffs in and not take away the betting lead in position. Only AKss would leave plenty of AK combos for the bettor, and could pile huge knowing AK can’t fold and he’ll get to free roll for a huge scoop.
This video is a great example of just because someone is a "winning" player doesn't mean they're incapable of making huge mistakes. J10s given the action is just a limp on the button.
A lot of people also have the impression that there are more winning players out there than there really are. This could definitely be one of those cases.
In fact, JT is one of the worst to just defend in a early position raise. You get too much reverse implied odds and dominated. flops like KQx JTQ can be a massive burden. I wonder tho, if the button was trying to play the image of “I know you were tying to raise and I’m still raising”- because with that I can only see AK, QQ+ doing that. And with a king high flop, realistically, hero is actualy only bluff catching from that range since Button is t doing it with QQ, and if he has KK, he absolutely coolers AK and AA. And free rolls with AKss.
yeah, but when you get that kind of "odds" so to speak to call with suited broadways you're taking it every time. yes it is probably a fold more often than not to an EP raise but you can *occasionally* 3bet it. probably a fold to a 4bet, and definitely a fold given action (although you are somewhat deep and have position).
@@NefariousMinds I don't make blunders that bad. Hero easily could have had a set of kings there. Villain made a terrible play when his opponent had a clear range and nut advantage. I think I have good reason to question the claim that the villain is a winning player.
@stevenundisclosed6091 Classic Live Poker player mistake. You don't form your bet sizes around the nuts in a person. You form you bet sizes around the hands that are indifferent to the bet size.
I think this was horribly played by villain, the "big winner." He clearly wasn't paying attention to the situation which weights hero to stronger hands. If I assumed I was playing against a strong observer, I would of had a hard time calling, but this is a lesson in not overestimating your opponents.
AK spades raises the flop all day long. I was thinking more along the lines of AK hearts or AK off. In fact, when he jams, I probably say "I guess we're chopping" which is true, but I scrutinize him for tells when I say it.
came here to say this, but agree with the other commenter some that he'd bet the flop. However, he could have had any other AK and play that jam the same way wanting to bet high against the flush draws.
Maybe I’m overfolding, or maybe I’m just used to 1/2 where people under bluff (or spaz like this). But idk how I find a call here. If villain KNOWS we’re trying to raise and misclicked, only the strongest parts of his range should be betting here. Obviously we block AA and KK, and could be up against AK ourselves, but when he shoves on the turn how is that ever not just AA or AK of spades? I know you can’t be scared of monsters under the bed but when dude is coming out swinging when we’ve already shown massive strength and isn’t afraid to put it in (didn’t even snap jam, he took time and thought about it). I can’t think of any hand we’re outright beating besides a bluff. Weird spot for sure, good call. But I feel if I did this in my games it’s mostly going to be sets and overpairs.
I think the fact that Villain knows hero played into the villain’s all in on the turn. More than likely due to hero’s hand was played face up villain probably counted on a fold thinking 🤔 hero can’t call all in with just one pair. Villain knows hero knows kind of played out there
Really interesting one. Learning to incorporate these on-the-fly oddities into range construction for the opponent seems like it can be really profitable when it comes up. It's not often a villain's nearly 2x pot effective turn jam is a trivial call with one pair.
I think this call is made harder by the pre flop action. So many hands are removed from villain's range that are winning (sets), but way more that are losing and make sense to turn into a bluff. Although AA and KK are probably further discounted due to preflop call and turn shove. I think the most likely hand by far is AsKs then maybe AsQs and KsQs then AA/KK. The actual hand is just bizarre.
Because the villain knew he meant to raise preflop and would likely limp with 3s or 7s to see if they flop a set, rather than raise preflop and get 4-bet against a possibly much better pocket pair etc.
I must look at my own (H) profile here (instead of V)...and IF: A) I'm tilting, or some kind of lunatic, then fold!! B) I'm a balanced player - fold C) I'm a straightforward player who plays his cards - CALL! Obviously, V is playing opponent: *Make them an offer they cannot accept* . Well, If you can't, accept it, then!! If you can accept it, then fold!
People see a guy with a big stack and raising with marginal hands, they are programmed to think he is a winning player.....meanwhile, the quiet nerd across the table is the real winning player.
snap call all day long. I think it's probably the same thing in a 3bet pot too with this combo. you are NEVER folding top top here fully unblocking both flush draws. only hand you realistically lose here to is 65s. in that case you tap the table and say nice hand.
Hero "sizes up" to 1/2 pot bet. LOL. Don't go crazy! That shove smells of nut flush draw. At least that's the way it is in Tampa at the 2/5 tables. Especially when they do that little chip dance before the shove where they're "trying to figure it out".
Personally... I'm not against the occasional deviation (V play on the turn..) but if V was ranging H correctly, the SPR makes the turn a call, not a shove... - and? In fairness, hero did tank for 5 minutes (his words..) Shove still feels like a punt IMO..
I don't hate his jam completely because most of the Mohegan 2/5 pool will overfold. I just don't like his jam against me and on a K high board after I limp/re-raise. But I do truly think most would fold against that sizing. And yes, I'm going to take my time facing a 260BB jam lol after I showing so much strength.
For some reason this caller sounds like a guy who will give poker advice at the table to try to prove that he knows a lot about poker…. Meanwhile he doesn’t know about poker as much as he thinks he does. He seems like a break-even or losing player.
Pausing after villian jams on turn. It feels like a KQs/KJs type of situation. The hero messed up on the flop sizing. What's calling for 80 thats not calling for 125? A bigger bet on the flop allows you to size up on the turn. Edit: Wtf was the villain doing here? Why would he raise pre knowing his opponent wanted to raise than called the 3bet pre. Then flop all back door draws then jam. Wow just terrible play.
The calling range vs. 33% vs. 66% is very different. People are not pure calling under pairs to the king vs. 2/3. Caller went 25bb preflop and 30% flop. Really standard play. In a 4bp can go smaller for like 25% cbet, but on KXX with equity and nut adavntage, you only size up 25% to 33%.
V could have small sets, 56. I don’t really know why the caller is calling this a 4bet pot because it isnt. Why wouldn’t the V call in position with 56 suited, maybe small pairs is too wide 56 suited in position against a limp re raise range isn’t ludicrous. I guess maybe because of stack depth you don’t call with those hands?
@@leemcdaniel5140 if the H opens over a limp in the same configuration and you are the villain on the button with 56ss you should 3 bet. Get heads up, in position, with a hand that has great playability. Can flat small pairs since they don’t have any playability if you miss
Anyone with a clue isn't 3-betting 65s especially when a player in early position intended to raise after another player in early position limped. Again, like Bart said, you should be just limping with 65s, 7's or 3's in this spot. Villain should almost never have those hands in what essentially was a 4-bet pot.
If you're prone to live chip misclicks, get in the habit of always announcing your action. This misclick actually setup a unique hand reading opportunity where we could remove a lot of the thick value hands like sets of 7s and 3s fom the villian's range since if he knew the hero was trying to raise he should be flat calling those hands.
Nice review.
It would be interesting to hear the villain's perspective.
Hey Bart. Could you please explain the formula you used to see how much you need to make on the river in terms of implied odds. Thanks.
People will say this is an easy call/snap call, and I agree. But when it comes down to it, and you are facing a 200 BB raise against your friend who is a winning player, it could be hard to call there. Especially because of the pre flop foolery…
I would have thought pocket 7's.
@@rustycolon9368 fair. But you have to consider he knew the hero attempted to raise to $25. With a small pocket pair would you raise and call a 3-bet (can be treated as a 4-bet)
@@ramitarazi6268 Maybe. It's possible the hero didn't see that, or they were just looking to play the pocket 7's a bit wider or more aggro than we would expect.
I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility for this kind of hand though. Jamming with that board texture to me speaks to two pair or set mining. Jd10d jamming for 200bb and this player is supposedly a winning player?
@@rustycolon9368shouldn't stick with pocket 7's pre flop. That's a lot
@@rustycolon9368some people think way too deeply… he has so many more bluffs than only 77s. How many combinations of 77 versus the combination of bluffs can he have? Especially jamming on the turn versus calling for max value.
Great job Bart breaking down villain's pot odds and implied odds. Terrible jam by villain and great call by hero.
Getting three to one with the back door flush draw is a slam dunk call. Jamming with the front door flush draw would make more sense because it would be harder to get paid.
A lot of what you guys were talking about preflop as far as a tighter range might not be the case if he's raising JTs he might have 77 and 65s...
I was fully expecting the reveal to be AKss free rolling the flush draw here. I would’ve expected AA/KK to be calling turn, because of the massive removal effects of those hands to bettors range. They’d want to keep the bluffs in and not take away the betting lead in position. Only AKss would leave plenty of AK combos for the bettor, and could pile huge knowing AK can’t fold and he’ll get to free roll for a huge scoop.
I also think the small sizing on the flop and turn contributed to his shove.
This video is a great example of just because someone is a "winning" player doesn't mean they're incapable of making huge mistakes. J10s given the action is just a limp on the button.
A lot of people also have the impression that there are more winning players out there than there really are. This could definitely be one of those cases.
Everyone is a winning player. Supposedly.
In fact, JT is one of the worst to just defend in a early position raise. You get too much reverse implied odds and dominated. flops like KQx JTQ can be a massive burden.
I wonder tho, if the button was trying to play the image of “I know you were tying to raise and I’m still raising”- because with that I can only see AK, QQ+ doing that. And with a king high flop, realistically, hero is actualy only bluff catching from that range since Button is t doing it with QQ, and if he has KK, he absolutely coolers AK and AA. And free rolls with AKss.
yeah, but when you get that kind of "odds" so to speak to call with suited broadways you're taking it every time. yes it is probably a fold more often than not to an EP raise but you can *occasionally* 3bet it. probably a fold to a 4bet, and definitely a fold given action (although you are somewhat deep and have position).
Thats a wild all-in bet either way against the UTG player. Limping then 3 betting preflop is a strong range IMO
J10 of diamonds? You say the villain is a winning player?
Just because you are a winning player, doesn't mean that you don't make blunders.
@@NefariousMinds I don't make blunders that bad. Hero easily could have had a set of kings there. Villain made a terrible play when his opponent had a clear range and nut advantage.
I think I have good reason to question the claim that the villain is a winning player.
@@stevenundisclosed6091
This hand contained friends, so there may be a personal element here.
@@stevenundisclosed6091I’m thinking the exact same thing lmao
@stevenundisclosed6091 Classic Live Poker player mistake. You don't form your bet sizes around the nuts in a person. You form you bet sizes around the hands that are indifferent to the bet size.
I think this was horribly played by villain, the "big winner." He clearly wasn't paying attention to the situation which weights hero to stronger hands. If I assumed I was playing against a strong observer, I would of had a hard time calling, but this is a lesson in not overestimating your opponents.
Bart, would be very cool to get Hero/Villan for a dual hand analysis.
When my son is old enough, I will share this with him so he can see how his college fund received it's first deposit.
The other hand that could push all in would be AK of spades for free roll
how often is a winning player flatting instead of 4 betting there tho, thats almost always a 4bet pre flop in my opinion at least
AK spades raises the flop all day long. I was thinking more along the lines of AK hearts or AK off. In fact, when he jams, I probably say "I guess we're chopping" which is true, but I scrutinize him for tells when I say it.
came here to say this, but agree with the other commenter some that he'd bet the flop. However, he could have had any other AK and play that jam the same way wanting to bet high against the flush draws.
Maybe I’m overfolding, or maybe I’m just used to 1/2 where people under bluff (or spaz like this). But idk how I find a call here. If villain KNOWS we’re trying to raise and misclicked, only the strongest parts of his range should be betting here. Obviously we block AA and KK, and could be up against AK ourselves, but when he shoves on the turn how is that ever not just AA or AK of spades?
I know you can’t be scared of monsters under the bed but when dude is coming out swinging when we’ve already shown massive strength and isn’t afraid to put it in (didn’t even snap jam, he took time and thought about it). I can’t think of any hand we’re outright beating besides a bluff.
Weird spot for sure, good call. But I feel if I did this in my games it’s mostly going to be sets and overpairs.
Yea but a good player should never have a small pocket pair pre flop. Implied odds aren't there.
I think the fact that Villain knows hero played into the villain’s all in on the turn. More than likely due to hero’s hand was played face up villain probably counted on a fold thinking 🤔 hero can’t call all in with just one pair. Villain knows hero knows kind of played out there
Really interesting one. Learning to incorporate these on-the-fly oddities into range construction for the opponent seems like it can be really profitable when it comes up. It's not often a villain's nearly 2x pot effective turn jam is a trivial call with one pair.
It’s not that it “seems like it can be really profitable”, making live deviations is literally the crux of a high winrate.
I think this call is made harder by the pre flop action. So many hands are removed from villain's range that are winning (sets), but way more that are losing and make sense to turn into a bluff. Although AA and KK are probably further discounted due to preflop call and turn shove. I think the most likely hand by far is AsKs then maybe AsQs and KsQs then AA/KK. The actual hand is just bizarre.
Dark Brandon snapping off bluffs with one pair!
Why are sets of 3s and 7s discounted from villain range
Because the villain knew he meant to raise preflop and would likely limp with 3s or 7s to see if they flop a set, rather than raise preflop and get 4-bet against a possibly much better pocket pair etc.
Villain could have had AK easily for a chop.
Factoring in the spazz part of Villians range could hav3 been the Videos title lol
i get shown a set 50% of the time
I thought it could be a spade draw. He's trying to push you off your hand on the turn. Was it Stewie at Mohegan? See this all the time up there.
Limping with AK us so tempting
I must look at my own (H) profile here (instead of V)...and IF:
A) I'm tilting, or some kind of lunatic, then fold!!
B) I'm a balanced player - fold
C) I'm a straightforward player who plays his cards - CALL!
Obviously, V is playing opponent: *Make them an offer they cannot accept* . Well, If you can't, accept it, then!! If you can accept it, then fold!
56 suited could be an option in a 4-bet pot
his buddy praying he had QQ lol
QQs betting the turn is insane overplay in this set up.
Or maybe he is betting ace high flush draws and going to fold to a jam i guess. Weird
People see a guy with a big stack and raising with marginal hands, they are programmed to think he is a winning player.....meanwhile, the quiet nerd across the table is the real winning player.
When he jams, I probably say "I guess we're chopping" which is true, but I scrutinize him for tells when I say it.
snap call all day long. I think it's probably the same thing in a 3bet pot too with this combo. you are NEVER folding top top here fully unblocking both flush draws. only hand you realistically lose here to is 65s. in that case you tap the table and say nice hand.
I could see jamming on the turn with AQ or AJ of diamonds
Freerolling with AKs?
This is what I thought
Hero has to be an extreme nit if his “winning player” buddy thinks he can take him off a K here lol…
Whenever callers bring up someone is a winning player they always end up doing something questionable lol
AK of spades
Hero "sizes up" to 1/2 pot bet. LOL. Don't go crazy! That shove smells of nut flush draw. At least that's the way it is in Tampa at the 2/5 tables. Especially when they do that little chip dance before the shove where they're "trying to figure it out".
Personally... I'm not against the occasional deviation (V play on the turn..) but if V was ranging H correctly, the SPR makes the turn a call, not a shove...
- and? In fairness, hero did tank for 5 minutes (his words..)
Shove still feels like a punt IMO..
The 5min tank was a bit of a slowroll, H is never folding. But again that just shows how ass Villains jam was
I don't hate his jam completely because most of the Mohegan 2/5 pool will overfold. I just don't like his jam against me and on a K high board after I limp/re-raise. But I do truly think most would fold against that sizing. And yes, I'm going to take my time facing a 260BB jam lol after I showing so much strength.
Yikes. The villain played this so poorly.
Caller tanked for 5 minutes?!?! This is a snap call on the turn given the dynamic and information.
260 BB jam should never be a snap call with one pair (I'm the caller).
Caller seems a little defensive
I don't understand what you mean
Not a winning player lol this is a total punt
For some reason this caller sounds like a guy who will give poker advice at the table to try to prove that he knows a lot about poker…. Meanwhile he doesn’t know about poker as much as he thinks he does. He seems like a break-even or losing player.
16 BB/hr win rate and I'm recreational. Let's play some time!
@@BSweetVideos You sure your friend is a big winner? How do you know this? Just curious
He knows AK is heavy part of hero’s range. Unless you know the player is likely to bluff it’s an easy fold.
Just saw what villain had, terrible overplay.
I think V has 77 alot
Pausing after villian jams on turn.
It feels like a KQs/KJs type of situation.
The hero messed up on the flop sizing. What's calling for 80 thats not calling for 125? A bigger bet on the flop allows you to size up on the turn.
Edit: Wtf was the villain doing here? Why would he raise pre knowing his opponent wanted to raise than called the 3bet pre. Then flop all back door draws then jam. Wow just terrible play.
"He jamed because he couldnt bluff the river based on the spr". I don't understand this reasoning
I'd be getting too good of odds on the river, jamming turn has more fold equity.
The calling range vs. 33% vs. 66% is very different. People are not pure calling under pairs to the king vs. 2/3.
Caller went 25bb preflop and 30% flop. Really standard play. In a 4bp can go smaller for like 25% cbet, but on KXX with equity and nut adavntage, you only size up 25% to 33%.
$1500 in your stack is not $1500 effective. You have $1500
who cares
I don't get the excitement of taking your friend's money. Shouldn't it be the opposite?
What a nitroll LoL
V could have small sets, 56. I don’t really know why the caller is calling this a 4bet pot because it isnt. Why wouldn’t the V call in position with 56 suited, maybe small pairs is too wide 56 suited in position against a limp re raise range isn’t ludicrous. I guess maybe because of stack depth you don’t call with those hands?
Did we watch the same video? If V knew hero was going to raise from EP why would he 3 bet those hands?
@@leemcdaniel5140 if the H opens over a limp in the same configuration and you are the villain on the button with 56ss you should 3 bet. Get heads up, in position, with a hand that has great playability. Can flat small pairs since they don’t have any playability if you miss
@@box3243-bet 65s!? That’s way too wide a 3-range vs an EP open.
Anyone with a clue isn't 3-betting 65s especially when a player in early position intended to raise after another player in early position limped. Again, like Bart said, you should be just limping with 65s, 7's or 3's in this spot. Villain should almost never have those hands in what essentially was a 4-bet pot.
@@ThePatriots010304 the hero could have misclicked with his whole range not just AK+
Probably thought the caller had queens not ak
Foxwoods is pathetic now. Absolutely dead compared to the glory days. Old man coffees reign supreme