@@annaliseoconner9266 Perhaps the romans designed their bathhouses based on the cosmic microwave background radiation, and at this point I cannot rule out the possibility of extraterrestrial help
pi is one of those numbers that turns up everywhere where you don't expect it to. abit like phi, which also turns up pretty much everywhere :) pointless coincidents are part of the beauty of pi and phi so therefore most of the coincidents are important in relevance to this video :) another great video numberphile :P
An arts episode. Which is cool. There is math in all art though. Everything that appeals to humans really, music, landscapes, paintings, buildings, attractiveness of a lovely girl, even abstract stuff. An episode maybe?
Very true about how general people enjoy aesthetically pleasing math. I'm in grad school for English but I love numberphile. There's no reason math needn't be beautiful. If even of the digits are assigned a colour arbitrarily.
Well, this is interesting, and beautiful, but here we have nothing about Pi itself. I mean 3.1415... is just number, representing Pi in decimal numeral system, all these visualizations would be different for the different numeral systems, so they actually don't visualize Pi itself. If it was really for Pi it would be the same for every numeral system.
I would love to hear James describe what a number system would look like if it were framed as base-pi. Would all integers become irrational? Would any other number (besides tau) work out evenly in base pi?
Beautiful presentation of statistical information is fine as long as you avoid chart junk. Read anything by Edward Tufte to see what I'm talking about. I suspect the same holds for seductively beautiful presentations of mathematical concepts. Can they lead to appreciation masquerading as understanding?
Daniel Tammet, a 'Savant', someone with incredible mental capabilities usually from some form of autism, can do huge calculations in his head without knowing exactly how he's doing it. He has shapes which he naturally connects to numbers, and long strings of numbers form landscapes. It's thought that he has a form of synaesthesia, the connecting of two points of the brain which aren't normally connected. For him the 'number' and 'shape/texture' parts of the brain could be linked. His least favourite number is 6, because it isn't really a shape, rather a lack of shape- like a hole. His favourite number is Pi, because he says it is a beautiful number in it's landscape. When shown a sequence of numbers similar to Pi but with some extra sixes, he got quite angry, saying that they'd taken a beautiful landscape and put holes in it. Just thought it was relevant here.
When people try to make data visualization "beautiful" they usually obscure the underlying information or destroy it entirely. This is what happens in this video too, with literally every image. I love mathematical art and have made plenty of my own, but make no mistake: you get no more information by looking at pi represented as colors instead of digits (in fact you get less, you don't even know it's pi until someone tells you!). If your goal is to express that the digits of pi are random (which is false) then looking at one particular choice of a picture that exhibits no patterns does not tell you that. It simply tells you that the picture does not reveal the true underlying nature of pi. You might as well generate the pictures by using true random numbers (which is what he did in the video), but this then ceases to be data visualization. If you're trying to convey information making things pretty definitely does NOT make the information more accessible or help you appreciate it better. Its just a technique to catch the eye of the public, just advertising.
He specifically said that the artist's intention wasn't to be useful to the mathematical community and that the whole thing was for the sake of artistry. Further, since all mathematical concepts haven't been "visualized" (Can't think of a better/actual verb) there is no way you can conclude with absolute certainty that there may not eventually be a visualization that will render the information easier to consume.
He also said that data visualization is about communicating information. And nothing about the plots communicated any substantive information about pi.
Jeremy Kun Maybe not this instance, but he gave a couple of fine examples of data visualization that did serve to communicate their information in a useful manner. My point was that the pi visualizations featured here were not intended to give the viewer any better understanding about the nature of pi, but to be pretty and that to call "beautiful/artistic" data visualizations "just advertising" and conclude that they "do NOT make the information more accessible or help you appreciate it better" is a bit unfair. No hard feelings though. Edit: Unrelated but, how exactly is it you made a third comment that reached my notifications and is labeled as a response to my first comment, but does not appear in the comments when I navigate to the video's page itself? Google+'s interaction with youtube seems to get more confusing the more I use it.
Quite the contrary. James Grime says when referring to the images, "You can see the randomness of it ... which reflects the randomness of the digits of pi." Not only is he wrong (pi is far from random) but it's not indicated by the image at all! IIRC the artist's website seems to promote the same intention, that his "data visualizations" help us understand pi better. I'm just saying that to call it "data visualization" is misleading because data visualization is first and foremost about conveying information, whereas this is primarily about aesthetics. I'm not saying they can't overlap, but there is a line that is blurred here more than it should be.
The value of Pi is not random and I'm sure James Grime is well aware of that fact, however, the distribution of its digits for all intents and purposes are random. The digits are used to describe a value that is calculated with pin point perfection, but the order with which the numerals 1 - 9 appear don't follow any pattern that any human could hope to discern. True randomness doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned, as even the complex seemly arbitrary movements of something completely outside of our grasp like say the movement of each individual star in the universe surely follows some sort of law that is simply not understood at this time. So, let's call the distribution of pi's digits "pseudo-random". The image does in fact show seemingly endless lines much like pi reveals seemingly endless digits and each line moves in a different direction in what appears to be an arbitrary fashion, much like pi moves from value to value in what appears to be an arbitrary fashion. The lines in the image DO accurately describe pi to whatever digit the artist calculated, albeit in a much more convoluted fashion than simply writing the digits down. It expresses the EXACT same data, it's just not very good conveyance for actually accomplishing anything with the data which I thought was what you were getting at. Your assertion that he implied that this would help us better understand pi is simply not true he states around 2 minutes in "I don't think there's any great mathematical truth to find underneath this. This is for art..." "... This is less about the mathematics and more about the beauty of it...". I won't speak for the artist or his website as I've not actually bothered to look into the artist. Data visualization is about taking data and representing it into a form that one can see, observe, picture, "visualize" and really nothing more. The data is represented accurately and is in visual form, so this falls squarely into the category of "data visualization". I don't think he managed to blur the line between artistry and practical mathematics to the point of warranting any critique. I appreciate your continuing the dialog, because nothing is more frustrating that starting a good conversation and then never getting a reply.
For something to be random it is just not repeated. But you permute 1 to 9 and then throw you are supposed to get random digits and phi is tree permutations. Say you take a tree structure of numbers and take permutations you get closer to phi. Phi is part of tree.
3:40 funny how there's a pentagon in the central circle, and Numberphile has a video called, "A Surprising Pi and 5". That video is sitting in my recommended feed to the right. How coincidental!
If you take pi, an infinitely long number, would this number ever completely repeat at some ∞th digit? Or would it just go on, continuing to be rather random?
The circular art design (the one with the curvy web) appears only because the person who created this model to represent pi in this manner, specifically chose to arch the pathways from one digit to the next in a certain way. What I would really like to see, are straight line connections joining the adjacent digits.
Did you use a DSLR for this video, Brady? The image quality seems a lot better than usual and the manual focusing reminds me of myself when trying to use one. XD
When I first saw the Pi Spiral, my first thought was, "Hey, that's the background microwave radiation of the universe." And then I saw it was more of a circle than an ellipse.
You're forgeting something.... there are two scientists who have done this : Cristian Ilies Vasile and Martin Kryzwinski. Cristian is from ROMANIA. Google it !!!
If you search for a random string of numbers, for example, 2665412, in pi, you find that the string is usually repeated, which is to be expected, but when you search for the reverse of the string 2145662, more often then not, you won't find one. Why ?
I like presentations by James and that inspired me to work on multiplication with 9. The video is titled- alternative method of multiplication with 9. Any comments James!
Anyone else see the pentagrams in the first pattern, and the star tetrahedron in the last pattern? Okay the guys at spirit science are going to go bonkers over these. :)
Btw I hacked into Numberphile's UA-cam account. Their password is the last 8 digits of Pi
seems legit
00000000
Peyton Carden actually it's ∞
U made my day
:)
I never thought that Pi could be shown in such a colour, awesome way.
Joke's on you, I'm colorblind
+Siddharth Pathak it does ruin the fun, doesn't it?
+Vultier all I see is a bunch of "magenta" dots
;-;
well, yeah i feel for you.
What type of colorblindness do you have, if you dont mind?
same
Pi is delicious, you just need e to top it off.
Aaayyyyyyyyy
And despite the rumors, Pies are round.
NaN that. Is beautiful.
Phi upon thee!
And if you multiply it by c, it will be epic
Is stuff like this that makes me enjoy Mathematics even more.
Me too
Shet I'm 7 years late
@@FenrizNNN hi, random traveller of youtube :-)
@@sadkritx6200 hello
Numberphile needs playlists by who is featured in the video. James Grime playlist!
+teenage spaceland They do now.
+zdgsg43 yea James is really cool! But the others are nice to listen to aswell :P
I like James Grime but I personally think that Cliff stroll is my favorite
Un
@@NoriMori1992 xs
you know what you call a snake that's 3.14 meters long ?
a pi-thon
Happy Pi Day !!
*clap clap clap clap clap*
Here take this like
A πthon
"Yo, I know pi to a thousand places." - Weird Al
kevnar you only need 30 or so digits to be accurate to the plank length
Creeper Pro 39. And it's not to the Planck length, it's measuring the universe to the accuracy of the width of a single hydrogen atom.
Everyone's begging for my top 8 spaces
Ain't got a grill, but I still wear braces
Order all my sandwiches with mayonnaise
It reminds me of the cosmic microwave background radiation, not roman bathhouses.
I thought the same thing
I desperately want to see the two compared side-by-side now. Maybe there's a resemblance?
@@annaliseoconner9266 Perhaps the romans designed their bathhouses based on the cosmic microwave background radiation, and at this point I cannot rule out the possibility of extraterrestrial help
Aargh! "before we ruin the beauty of it by describing it" .. no, no, no, no, no.. understanding something takes nothing away from it's beauty!
You're right, pie truly is beautiful
this video sounds like a TED talk, nice to have a simple video every once and a while
This guy smiles way too much.
Gorgeous!! I now have a debate about which will be my phone desktop
Although it is wonderful to see computer generated Pi Art. One must only look around at the universe to appreciate the beauty of Pi.
Dr. Grime is back!
I'm watching this video at 3:14 (a.m.)
Perfect
Welcome back James. Long time no see.
The beauty of numbers, the beauty of nature. All these awesome images, confirmed my statement "Numbers are just like human beings"
Pi is as beautiful as another random number.
Pi is beautiful and so are you.
pi is one of those numbers that turns up everywhere where you don't expect it to. abit like phi, which also turns up pretty much everywhere :) pointless coincidents are part of the beauty of pi and phi so therefore most of the coincidents are important in relevance to this video :) another great video numberphile :P
I think TAU is even more beautiful
An arts episode. Which is cool. There is math in all art though. Everything that appeals to humans really, music, landscapes, paintings, buildings, attractiveness of a lovely girl, even abstract stuff. An episode maybe?
James Grime would make a great QI guest!
This should really be called, beautiful things you can do with random number sequences. ;-)
I personaly like the simpler works of 'art'.
are we going to mention the reccuring pentagrams or nah?
Pi was already a beautiful number, but to represent it like this takes it a step further.
HAPPY PI DAY
Very true about how general people enjoy aesthetically pleasing math. I'm in grad school for English but I love numberphile. There's no reason math needn't be beautiful. If even of the digits are assigned a colour arbitrarily.
YEEEEEEEAH!!!
Mr. Grime is back!
YEEEEEEEAH!!!
Mr. π is back!
The universe is spherical.
Man your pupils are HUGE
I could listen to this guy talk about anything
James you mentioned 6 consecutive 9's at 726 th decimal place so I checked for more and there are 11 9's at 27014073304 th decimal place. :)
Dan Kelly How did you even find that?
Brandon Boyer Site online has a database of millions of digits of pi
Dan Kelly It is infinite
Dan Kelly Wait a second... there are 11 9s at 27014073304th decimal place... 9. 11 9s. NINE ELEVEN. PI = 9/11 CONFIRMED
Gemdude46 You misunderstood me. Yes the digits of Pi are infinite but what is the most consecutive 9's possible within those digits.
I don't understand how people can dislike this, I mean seriously?
This guy talks like math is poetry♥️
This is really cool :D
glad you liked it
god i'm one of the few poeple absolutly in love with mathematics and physics. i could hear mathematicien speak for hours and hours
I'm glad Dr Grime is back
That last one would make a nice bedroom poster!
check the link in the description - nice versions are available for sale on Martin's site!
This is exactly how I act when I begin finding parallels in the Bible, specifically, the New Testement.
K.
The universe produces everything in units.
6:22 The Feynman Point is also knows as the Hitler series.
*Hermann Fegelein wants to know your location*
Thank you for sharing the beautiful art of math!
Kudos to Brady Haran and James Grime, you have both made Mathematics so much more beautiful and interesting to me!
Well, this is interesting, and beautiful, but here we have nothing about Pi itself. I mean 3.1415... is just number, representing Pi in decimal numeral system, all these visualizations would be different for the different numeral systems, so they actually don't visualize Pi itself. If it was really for Pi it would be the same for every numeral system.
One of the best videos I have seen
This channel is the best among all I have ever subscribed yet to learn something.
very amazing.
My wife looked over my shoulder and declared "Pirographs!"
Love your wife's sense of humour.
Cool video. I really liked the one that looks like a circuit board.
I would love to hear James describe what a number system would look like if it were framed as base-pi. Would all integers become irrational? Would any other number (besides tau) work out evenly in base pi?
Wow... I never knew that my love for Maths would expand any further.
Beautiful presentation of statistical information is fine as long as you avoid chart junk. Read anything by Edward Tufte to see what I'm talking about.
I suspect the same holds for seductively beautiful presentations of mathematical concepts. Can they lead to appreciation masquerading as understanding?
Daniel Tammet, a 'Savant', someone with incredible mental capabilities usually from some form of autism, can do huge calculations in his head without knowing exactly how he's doing it. He has shapes which he naturally connects to numbers, and long strings of numbers form landscapes. It's thought that he has a form of synaesthesia, the connecting of two points of the brain which aren't normally connected. For him the 'number' and 'shape/texture' parts of the brain could be linked.
His least favourite number is 6, because it isn't really a shape, rather a lack of shape- like a hole.
His favourite number is Pi, because he says it is a beautiful number in it's landscape. When shown a sequence of numbers similar to Pi but with some extra sixes, he got quite angry, saying that they'd taken a beautiful landscape and put holes in it.
Just thought it was relevant here.
We watched this at school on pi day last year
When people try to make data visualization "beautiful" they usually obscure the underlying information or destroy it entirely. This is what happens in this video too, with literally every image. I love mathematical art and have made plenty of my own, but make no mistake: you get no more information by looking at pi represented as colors instead of digits (in fact you get less, you don't even know it's pi until someone tells you!). If your goal is to express that the digits of pi are random (which is false) then looking at one particular choice of a picture that exhibits no patterns does not tell you that. It simply tells you that the picture does not reveal the true underlying nature of pi. You might as well generate the pictures by using true random numbers (which is what he did in the video), but this then ceases to be data visualization.
If you're trying to convey information making things pretty definitely does NOT make the information more accessible or help you appreciate it better. Its just a technique to catch the eye of the public, just advertising.
He specifically said that the artist's intention wasn't to be useful to the mathematical community and that the whole thing was for the sake of artistry. Further, since all mathematical concepts haven't been "visualized" (Can't think of a better/actual verb) there is no way you can conclude with absolute certainty that there may not eventually be a visualization that will render the information easier to consume.
He also said that data visualization is about communicating information. And nothing about the plots communicated any substantive information about pi.
Jeremy Kun Maybe not this instance, but he gave a couple of fine examples of data visualization that did serve to communicate their information in a useful manner.
My point was that the pi visualizations featured here were not intended to give the viewer any better understanding about the nature of pi, but to be pretty and that to call "beautiful/artistic" data visualizations "just advertising" and conclude that they "do NOT make the information more accessible or help you appreciate it better" is a bit unfair.
No hard feelings though.
Edit: Unrelated but, how exactly is it you made a third comment that reached my notifications and is labeled as a response to my first comment, but does not appear in the comments when I navigate to the video's page itself? Google+'s interaction with youtube seems to get more confusing the more I use it.
Quite the contrary. James Grime says when referring to the images, "You can see the randomness of it ... which reflects the randomness of the digits of pi." Not only is he wrong (pi is far from random) but it's not indicated by the image at all! IIRC the artist's website seems to promote the same intention, that his "data visualizations" help us understand pi better.
I'm just saying that to call it "data visualization" is misleading because data visualization is first and foremost about conveying information, whereas this is primarily about aesthetics. I'm not saying they can't overlap, but there is a line that is blurred here more than it should be.
The value of Pi is not random and I'm sure James Grime is well aware of that fact, however, the distribution of its digits for all intents and purposes are random. The digits are used to describe a value that is calculated with pin point perfection, but the order with which the numerals 1 - 9 appear don't follow any pattern that any human could hope to discern. True randomness doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned, as even the complex seemly arbitrary movements of something completely outside of our grasp like say the movement of each individual star in the universe surely follows some sort of law that is simply not understood at this time. So, let's call the distribution of pi's digits "pseudo-random". The image does in fact show seemingly endless lines much like pi reveals seemingly endless digits and each line moves in a different direction in what appears to be an arbitrary fashion, much like pi moves from value to value in what appears to be an arbitrary fashion. The lines in the image DO accurately describe pi to whatever digit the artist calculated, albeit in a much more convoluted fashion than simply writing the digits down. It expresses the EXACT same data, it's just not very good conveyance for actually accomplishing anything with the data which I thought was what you were getting at.
Your assertion that he implied that this would help us better understand pi is simply not true he states around 2 minutes in "I don't think there's any great mathematical truth to find underneath this. This is for art..." "... This is less about the mathematics and more about the beauty of it...". I won't speak for the artist or his website as I've not actually bothered to look into the artist.
Data visualization is about taking data and representing it into a form that one can see, observe, picture, "visualize" and really nothing more. The data is represented accurately and is in visual form, so this falls squarely into the category of "data visualization".
I don't think he managed to blur the line between artistry and practical mathematics to the point of warranting any critique.
I appreciate your continuing the dialog, because nothing is more frustrating that starting a good conversation and then never getting a reply.
For something to be random it is just not repeated. But you permute 1 to 9 and then throw you are supposed to get random digits and phi is tree permutations. Say you take a tree structure of numbers and take permutations you get closer to phi. Phi is part of tree.
that might look quite interesting, but in fact you can do that with every irrational number, so there's nothing special in that..
+Nexhi Kociu Do they have bunches of 0s or 9s in a row within 1000 digits?
There is no randomness in the universe, it is all connected, therefore all predictable given a universe of information.
Why do people obsess over pi so much? Phi is where the real magic is!
3:30 I want that as my desktop background.
How can I buy one of those poster?
No end to space and mathematics
These scientists and mathematicians find a new problem every minute...
My brain is melting!
If there was a number called cool whip, then pi would've been perfect.
did he comment out the digits on the connections? that's freakin' awesome.
NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN!
Hahaha I recognize it!
you german?
simply wow ! never knew there is art in mathematics as well ;)
3:40 funny how there's a pentagon in the central circle, and Numberphile has a video called, "A Surprising Pi and 5". That video is sitting in my recommended feed to the right. How coincidental!
That's only because 5 divides the base.
/r/dataisbeautiful
Of dog the 30fps animations drive me nuts :3
Great vidio guise!
its Piutiful :)
PI + utiful
So close to a million views
+nekogod Its a million now
I'm really bad at math, but I love how Dr. Grimes loves math.
2:45 its a fucking pentagram! LUMENATY CONFERMD
OMG you are right!
You are so right. Pythagorean confurmd
If you take pi, an infinitely long number, would this number ever completely repeat at some ∞th digit? Or would it just go on, continuing to be rather random?
Pie is beautiful, too.
yxou look always so happy talking about math ^^
Well that was amazing. Beautiful. Incredible.
I just found this video. Thank you both (for yet another fascinating video). And for the refernce to Mr. Krzywinski, whose site I now have bookmarked.
So, do you plan a video on Florence Nightingale in Numberphile?
Tau is way more logic than Pi !
The circular art design (the one with the curvy web) appears only because the person who created this model to represent pi in this manner, specifically chose to arch the pathways from one digit to the next in a certain way. What I would really like to see, are straight line connections joining the adjacent digits.
Did you use a DSLR for this video, Brady? The image quality seems a lot better than usual and the manual focusing reminds me of myself when trying to use one. XD
When I first saw the Pi Spiral, my first thought was, "Hey, that's the background microwave radiation of the universe." And then I saw it was more of a circle than an ellipse.
At 2:51, it looks like a flower.
If you want an opinion on art, don't go to a mathematician. Just sayin'.
Haters gonna hate
You're forgeting something.... there are two scientists who have done this : Cristian Ilies Vasile and Martin Kryzwinski. Cristian is from ROMANIA. Google it !!!
1:20 as a color blind it pisses me off i can't experience this beauty in it's entire
Great video! It's really interesting to visualise these numbers.
"Pi is beautiful" Took you long enough!
(1234÷4321)×11.00066601
=3.14159265358.....
If you search for a random string of numbers, for example, 2665412, in pi, you find that the string is usually repeated, which is to be expected, but when you search for the reverse of the string 2145662, more often then not, you won't find one.
Why ?
In a circle the numbers as colour dots looked a lot like the cosmic microwave background radiation.
I like presentations by James and that inspired me to work on multiplication with 9.
The video is titled- alternative method of multiplication with 9. Any comments James!
Isn’t math just so beautiful?
your pie graph of likes vs dislikes is now inaccurate; I just hit the like button
Anyone else see the pentagrams in the first pattern, and the star tetrahedron in the last pattern? Okay the guys at spirit science are going to go bonkers over these. :)
Mind-blowing!
Contine singing banana! I loved it!