Is Chess.com Evil? | Dojo Talks
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- Опубліковано 25 чер 2024
- Jesse Kraai, David Pruess and Kostya Kavutskiy talk about Chesscoms potential monopoly and the consequences of it.
00:00 Intro
00:56 Summary
02:37 Kostya on chesscom buying play magnus
08:00 "Bad Practices"
12:52 Individual vs. Collective
20:12 Is Chesscom Trying to Kill OTB?
36:39 Behavior in an expanding Market
39:57 The Competitors
48:25 Tribalism
51:18 The Consequences Of The Play Magnus Acquisition
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Who cares? We have Lichess
I appreciate these talks. You regularly talk about relevant things and have an excellent discussion with differing opinions voiced nicely, not talking over each other. The conversation doesn't devolve into arguments or stray away from the important stuff. And you're titled players, strong players that sincerely care about chess as a game, so your opinions/views have a good bit of credibility. I appreciate that you "go there" and talk about things that may be not easy to talk about but handle them with delicacy and clarity. These are very well-rounded talks and help the discussion in a productive way, not diving into chess drama for "content". Keep up the great work, team!
Good talk, though I'm sort of surprised at the lack of criticism at their on-site business practices such as asking for money for almost every bit of basic functionality and selling NFTs.
Oh, we totally forgot about that NFT thing. I would not have defended that :-P As for charging for functionality, my personal opinion is that c.c is a very low price point for the features and content it offers; and-- within the context of a capitalist society-- I would rather pay for membership than watch ads.
You guys are great. Thanks for bringing discussion to this
Jesse talking, Kostya talking, and I was sitting here thinking "this is just what capital does" And in comes David with the class angle! 🔥❤️ My new favorite IM.
Yes! David with the insights! Class analysis ftw
David is a G. Love his input.
Some times David is a bit drowsy and takes less part in the talk. This time he was fully awake.
And some times Jesse goes all out with wild theories. When David is not sleepy and Jesse is not manic, they produce damn good arguments.
@@juhonieminen4219 lol. I'm never asleep during the talks! I do think about not talking too much, and giving others a chance to speak. I wonder what other people have noticed?
@@chesscomdpruess Maybe not lately, but some months ago you talked about how kids and teaching and chess and sleep might not fit in the same schedule. ⏰
One of the contradictions of capitalism is that competition is a core principle, yet when one entity competes "too" well, advantages compound and the winning position is converted into the checkmate of a monopoly. Congratulations for the win, but now alas, that key component, of capitalism, meaningful competition, is gone.
Spot on!
It really doesn't work that way in practice though. Barring some exceptions the extent to which a monopoly can be maintained is governed by a lot more than simple competitive dynamics. The nature of industry, the structure of it, barriers to entry (natural and artificial) have a huge role to play. It's worth pointing out that historically monopolies were granted by the monarch and enforced with harsh penalties (the army if necessary) for those trying to break them. Actually attaining a monopoly and maintaining it for any appreciable length of time is very hard to do without outside support in some fashion. Of course companies are trying to do this all the time and a favorite tactic is to buy up your small competition like Amazon/Google/Meta et al are currently doing. The other good one is to lobby for legal protections against competition.
@@ENoob Your points are good and correct as far as I know. It's a complicated system, and you can always add more detail. I don't think the extra details you add mean that James or I are wrong that as a company outcompetes others, they gain market share, and face less and less competition. Using their profits to infiltrate government and write laws that favor, protect, or enshrine their position is just another example of "compounding the advantages of a winning position," which I think was a very nice chess way for James to explain it.
@@chesscomdpruess (Thanks, David.)
@@ENoob Yes, well, who was it that said something like “The hardest thing to do in chess is to win a won position.” ;)
Pretty good episode. Mostly agree with David. Market share IS NOT who is making money, it’s who controls the user base (David was right on this point). This is basic economics.
Some fresh titles I've seen at Titled Tuesdays:
OM = Online Master
BS = Bullet Superstar
PRGM = Puzzle Rush Grandmaster
When the change in demographics was mentioned, I figured it would move on to how not only are the players younger, but they on average come from wealthier backgrounds. I'm comparing it to my contemporaries from the Fischer Boom.
8:00 UA-cam and Twitch have mainly to do with entertainment. Education comes when one starts studying something. You have gamers on Twitch constantly blabbering in a chat about the weather, the cat, their acne etc. Twitch and YT cannot hard teach something.
I play in lichess
Daaaaaamn, Pruess is based AF w/ the class warfare analogy. haha love it, spot on
Great talk👍
Hands down FIDE needs a major change, needs to step up to the new world. But it wont happen with the current leadership.
The chess pandemic boom may be over. There will most likely be a stagnation of online chess growth.
Is one large chess site better than many smaller communities?
Jesse has wisdom beyond the other two. In time his observations will seem a whole lot less crazy
David Pruess with the class consiousness! I see u comrade David let's fucking go!!! :D
For the monopoly question I don't think Jesse's framing quite makes sense. If Lichess had 80% of the online chess games played, and chesscom had say, 15%, you wouldn't call chesscom a monopoly just because they're the highest proportion that also makes money.
If you're talking about market share of users playing chess then Lichess still has a market share, it's just not a paying market share as they are taking people away from chesscom. If you're talking about a financial market share that's more understandable, but I don't think you can call it a monopoly on the chess playing experience via a financial route because paying is optional to play.
Monopolies are never a healthy thing. Competition normally helps bring costs down and gives more choice and improves standards, as competing entities have to improve to gain more customers.
Smash the like 👍 button
My man, David! Immediately reminding us of our "dear" Capitalism
6:14 ....ah of course he's one of those guys.
Is chessdojo no longer chesscom affiliated? How come you guys are allowed to make a video scrutinising the hand that feeds
Yes, we are still partnered with Chess.com. They in fact appreciated our candid conversation 🙂
wasn't expecting socialist propaganda but I found it
Kostya is right that “evil” is inappropriate. Stopped listening after David’s little political outburst.
That's too bad it was a great exchange in the marketplace of ideas 👍
Monopoly: the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service. That only happens under communism where the state controls everything. What you get in a free market is that the stronger competitor beats everyone else. Very similar to what happens in chess. Carlsen does not have a monopoly he is just better...
Free markets concentrate wealth and power and thereby trend towards monopoly.
"Communism causes monopolies" LOL
@@nimzomitch Communism is the absolute monopoly of everything, just read some history books...
@Eric Diaz that is the definition of "Monopoly" if you do not like it that is not my problem and if you want to call a monopoly something that is not that is not my problem either...
There is not monopoly when there is competition...
@@JoNAs_88 🤣
Let's just all support LiChess!! 💸 I do. (and cancel ChessCom)💸