Is Chess.com Evil? | Dojo Talks

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  • Опубліковано 25 чер 2024
  • Jesse Kraai, David Pruess and Kostya Kavutskiy talk about Chesscoms potential monopoly and the consequences of it.
    00:00 Intro
    00:56 Summary
    02:37 Kostya on chesscom buying play magnus
    08:00 "Bad Practices"
    12:52 Individual vs. Collective
    20:12 Is Chesscom Trying to Kill OTB?
    36:39 Behavior in an expanding Market
    39:57 The Competitors
    48:25 Tribalism
    51:18 The Consequences Of The Play Magnus Acquisition
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 59

  • @rizka7945
    @rizka7945 Рік тому +34

    Who cares? We have Lichess

  • @bmac8322
    @bmac8322 Рік тому +6

    I appreciate these talks. You regularly talk about relevant things and have an excellent discussion with differing opinions voiced nicely, not talking over each other. The conversation doesn't devolve into arguments or stray away from the important stuff. And you're titled players, strong players that sincerely care about chess as a game, so your opinions/views have a good bit of credibility. I appreciate that you "go there" and talk about things that may be not easy to talk about but handle them with delicacy and clarity. These are very well-rounded talks and help the discussion in a productive way, not diving into chess drama for "content". Keep up the great work, team!

  • @SerLaama
    @SerLaama Рік тому +11

    Good talk, though I'm sort of surprised at the lack of criticism at their on-site business practices such as asking for money for almost every bit of basic functionality and selling NFTs.

    • @chesscomdpruess
      @chesscomdpruess Рік тому +2

      Oh, we totally forgot about that NFT thing. I would not have defended that :-P As for charging for functionality, my personal opinion is that c.c is a very low price point for the features and content it offers; and-- within the context of a capitalist society-- I would rather pay for membership than watch ads.

  • @sizzlebiskits
    @sizzlebiskits Рік тому +5

    You guys are great. Thanks for bringing discussion to this

  • @nimzomitch
    @nimzomitch Рік тому +26

    Jesse talking, Kostya talking, and I was sitting here thinking "this is just what capital does" And in comes David with the class angle! 🔥❤️ My new favorite IM.

    • @AsirIset
      @AsirIset Рік тому +2

      Yes! David with the insights! Class analysis ftw

    • @JD-td8kl
      @JD-td8kl Рік тому +2

      David is a G. Love his input.

    • @juhonieminen4219
      @juhonieminen4219 Рік тому +4

      Some times David is a bit drowsy and takes less part in the talk. This time he was fully awake.
      And some times Jesse goes all out with wild theories. When David is not sleepy and Jesse is not manic, they produce damn good arguments.

    • @chesscomdpruess
      @chesscomdpruess Рік тому +3

      @@juhonieminen4219 lol. I'm never asleep during the talks! I do think about not talking too much, and giving others a chance to speak. I wonder what other people have noticed?

    • @juhonieminen4219
      @juhonieminen4219 Рік тому

      @@chesscomdpruess Maybe not lately, but some months ago you talked about how kids and teaching and chess and sleep might not fit in the same schedule. ⏰

  • @jameskaufmann765
    @jameskaufmann765 Рік тому +5

    One of the contradictions of capitalism is that competition is a core principle, yet when one entity competes "too" well, advantages compound and the winning position is converted into the checkmate of a monopoly. Congratulations for the win, but now alas, that key component, of capitalism, meaningful competition, is gone.

    • @chesscomdpruess
      @chesscomdpruess Рік тому

      Spot on!

    • @ENoob
      @ENoob Рік тому +1

      It really doesn't work that way in practice though. Barring some exceptions the extent to which a monopoly can be maintained is governed by a lot more than simple competitive dynamics. The nature of industry, the structure of it, barriers to entry (natural and artificial) have a huge role to play. It's worth pointing out that historically monopolies were granted by the monarch and enforced with harsh penalties (the army if necessary) for those trying to break them. Actually attaining a monopoly and maintaining it for any appreciable length of time is very hard to do without outside support in some fashion. Of course companies are trying to do this all the time and a favorite tactic is to buy up your small competition like Amazon/Google/Meta et al are currently doing. The other good one is to lobby for legal protections against competition.

    • @chesscomdpruess
      @chesscomdpruess Рік тому

      @@ENoob Your points are good and correct as far as I know. It's a complicated system, and you can always add more detail. I don't think the extra details you add mean that James or I are wrong that as a company outcompetes others, they gain market share, and face less and less competition. Using their profits to infiltrate government and write laws that favor, protect, or enshrine their position is just another example of "compounding the advantages of a winning position," which I think was a very nice chess way for James to explain it.

    • @jameskaufmann765
      @jameskaufmann765 Рік тому

      @@chesscomdpruess (Thanks, David.)

    • @jameskaufmann765
      @jameskaufmann765 Рік тому

      @@ENoob Yes, well, who was it that said something like “The hardest thing to do in chess is to win a won position.” ;)

  • @fazzolarijames
    @fazzolarijames Рік тому +4

    Pretty good episode. Mostly agree with David. Market share IS NOT who is making money, it’s who controls the user base (David was right on this point). This is basic economics.

  • @juhonieminen4219
    @juhonieminen4219 Рік тому +2

    Some fresh titles I've seen at Titled Tuesdays:
    OM = Online Master
    BS = Bullet Superstar
    PRGM = Puzzle Rush Grandmaster

  • @tomohawk52
    @tomohawk52 Рік тому +2

    When the change in demographics was mentioned, I figured it would move on to how not only are the players younger, but they on average come from wealthier backgrounds. I'm comparing it to my contemporaries from the Fischer Boom.

  • @exuviumisopods
    @exuviumisopods Рік тому +2

    8:00 UA-cam and Twitch have mainly to do with entertainment. Education comes when one starts studying something. You have gamers on Twitch constantly blabbering in a chat about the weather, the cat, their acne etc. Twitch and YT cannot hard teach something.

  • @mingolam
    @mingolam Рік тому +6

    I play in lichess

  • @a_doggo
    @a_doggo Рік тому +3

    Daaaaaamn, Pruess is based AF w/ the class warfare analogy. haha love it, spot on

  • @Extirpo
    @Extirpo Рік тому +5

    Great talk👍
    Hands down FIDE needs a major change, needs to step up to the new world. But it wont happen with the current leadership.

  • @j-mo3129
    @j-mo3129 Рік тому +2

    The chess pandemic boom may be over. There will most likely be a stagnation of online chess growth.
    Is one large chess site better than many smaller communities?

  • @NotAllWhoWanderAreLost641
    @NotAllWhoWanderAreLost641 Рік тому +1

    Jesse has wisdom beyond the other two. In time his observations will seem a whole lot less crazy

  • @evanzigmond1213
    @evanzigmond1213 Рік тому +2

    David Pruess with the class consiousness! I see u comrade David let's fucking go!!! :D

  • @AdamGaffney96
    @AdamGaffney96 Рік тому +1

    For the monopoly question I don't think Jesse's framing quite makes sense. If Lichess had 80% of the online chess games played, and chesscom had say, 15%, you wouldn't call chesscom a monopoly just because they're the highest proportion that also makes money.
    If you're talking about market share of users playing chess then Lichess still has a market share, it's just not a paying market share as they are taking people away from chesscom. If you're talking about a financial market share that's more understandable, but I don't think you can call it a monopoly on the chess playing experience via a financial route because paying is optional to play.

  • @happyhornet1000
    @happyhornet1000 Рік тому

    Monopolies are never a healthy thing. Competition normally helps bring costs down and gives more choice and improves standards, as competing entities have to improve to gain more customers.

  • @ronfuse6993
    @ronfuse6993 Рік тому +2

    Smash the like 👍 button

  • @boromir674
    @boromir674 Рік тому +4

    My man, David! Immediately reminding us of our "dear" Capitalism

  • @3Torts
    @3Torts 2 місяці тому

    6:14 ....ah of course he's one of those guys.

  • @rgqwerty63
    @rgqwerty63 Рік тому +1

    Is chessdojo no longer chesscom affiliated? How come you guys are allowed to make a video scrutinising the hand that feeds

    • @ChessDojo
      @ChessDojo  Рік тому

      Yes, we are still partnered with Chess.com. They in fact appreciated our candid conversation 🙂

  • @brydust
    @brydust Рік тому

    wasn't expecting socialist propaganda but I found it

  • @serene_shepherd
    @serene_shepherd Рік тому +2

    Kostya is right that “evil” is inappropriate. Stopped listening after David’s little political outburst.

    • @ChessDojo
      @ChessDojo  Рік тому +1

      That's too bad it was a great exchange in the marketplace of ideas 👍

  • @JoNAs_88
    @JoNAs_88 Рік тому +6

    Monopoly: the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service. That only happens under communism where the state controls everything. What you get in a free market is that the stronger competitor beats everyone else. Very similar to what happens in chess. Carlsen does not have a monopoly he is just better...

    • @nimzomitch
      @nimzomitch Рік тому +1

      Free markets concentrate wealth and power and thereby trend towards monopoly.
      "Communism causes monopolies" LOL

    • @JoNAs_88
      @JoNAs_88 Рік тому

      @@nimzomitch Communism is the absolute monopoly of everything, just read some history books...

    • @JoNAs_88
      @JoNAs_88 Рік тому +1

      @Eric Diaz that is the definition of "Monopoly" if you do not like it that is not my problem and if you want to call a monopoly something that is not that is not my problem either...

    • @JoNAs_88
      @JoNAs_88 Рік тому +1

      There is not monopoly when there is competition...

    • @nimzomitch
      @nimzomitch Рік тому +2

      @@JoNAs_88 🤣

  • @nomoreblitz
    @nomoreblitz Рік тому +5

    Let's just all support LiChess!! 💸 I do. (and cancel ChessCom)💸