Another important aspect of this situation is that bill listened to the grad student. Many people with his level of experience in the industry would have ignored the concern raised by the grad student because they were a student criticizing the work of a seasoned professional. Instead of being insulted by the students claims he took the time to evaluate them instead of dismissing them simply because they came from someone with no industry experience.
There's more to this than we got here. Apparently the two never spoke. Joel Weinstein, a junior engineer in the firm, went to LeMessurier after Hartley asked him for the quartering wind calculations. Weinstein couldn't find them.
@@gasdive Why am i not surprized...lol...this and "the bolter"...makes my hair stand on end, i've seen the foundations wash awaywww.abc.net.au/news/2005-11-02/sydney-residents-evacuated-over-building-collapse/2136826 or just fall away on a few buildings, the dread is palpable to state the obvious.
Under his Skunkworks presentation, many people said they wanted him to talk about aviation all day long. They miss the point, do they not? :D ...To be fair, that video was like 40+ minutes long (actually can't recall) and in relation to that his translations into computer developement were quite short so many people may have not gotten the memo in the first place...
Citi didnt want a long drawn out court case splashed out over TV involving their building being a dangerous,unsteady disaster, exactly the opposite of the image they wanted to project. Its also why NYC didnt make a fuss.............they missed it also and themselves would have breathed a big sigh of relief that the problem was identified and fixed quickly.
I believe a better explanation is the people in charge of the buildings dept are not politicians but engineers themselves. Smart people recognize problems and don't blame others. They understand the magnitude of the issue and just want to do the right thing. No cynical behavior allowed here. OMG! I didn't finish the video and after posting I heard him say exactly what I said like he read my mind in the past.
@@scottleft3672 yep. What he skims over is that this wasn't the engineer at all. The engineer designed welded joints. Welded joints were in the costings. The builder quoted for welded joints and was paid for welded joints. Welded joints were in the information given to NYC. The builder decided they knew better and a couple of bolts would be fine. I've had my own small experience of this. My family built a house. The architect designed the trusses for the roof using a then new structure that was inherently stronger than the traditional design. That let him specify thinner, lighter beams. The stupid builder ignored the drawings and built what they were used to, using the thin wood. The building inspector condemned it. The "fix" was to nail a whole bunch of braces through the roof nearly at random. As far as I could tell they added weight but no strength. 10 years after construction the roof sagged and twisted all the walls making it impossible to open the windows. It's nothing compared to the scale of knocking down half of New York, but it was a big hit for my family.
@@gasdive I know your pain young brother...lol...ive worked for some real cowboys, and some actual proper gentlemen, the bad is only 15% at worst, 10% generally, they tend to canabalize what they or "a mate' has, in their yard, but when they are doing things like THIS.... www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/dec/26/opal-tower-cracks-nsw-government-urgent-investigation OMFG how do they sleep at night...I WAS a builders labourer, i became a brickies labourer then a trowel then a stonemason, i much prefer sub contracting or working alone with my son, the less people = the more job satisfaction in my view.....seeing something YOU built, alone....is very satisfying, though team effort is nearly as good....good luck and enjoy.
@@scottleft3672 oh God, opal towers. Yes a disgrace. Nothing innovative there. Should have just gone up and been fine for a hundred years. My experiences were in Sydney too, but it seems to be global. Grenfel towers coated in basically the same stuff that's used as rocket fuel in the space shuttle solid rocket boosters. I'm sure someone saved a few bob on that one.
@@gasdive There is a 4 corners show about it, there is NO REQUIREMENT for the safe one....STILL....crimminal, a building in Melbourn caught fire and that very same stuff went up like thermite as it IS aluminium based, seems ANY oxide will suffice for a reaction, it just depends on the ignition temp, crimminal... ua-cam.com/video/gnTZLzXq8fU/v-deo.html
I work in a business where the key is to fix blame, not problems first. The most amazing thing I ever heard in my life "IF YOU DON'T SHOW ME, I WON'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT, IF I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT, THEY WON'T ASK ME TO DO IT, IF THEY DON'T ASK ME TO DO IT, I CAN'T FUCK IT UP, IF I DON'T FUCK IT UP, I WON'T GET IN TROUBLE"
This is a good story for a tragedy averted but I think the grad student girl deserved much more recognition and appreciation for her diligence especially since she was just a student and Bill is even bigger a man for giving a damn to her questions and thoughts. Thank you.
I learned early on that telling that I made a mistake before it was discovered would get me through OK. If I was confronted about a mistake I did not realize I had made, then simple honesty and truth also got me through. My superiors always appreciated that.
Not only her, but William LeMessurier himself. Diane Hartley brought the issue onto the table, in a very vague way. It was William LeMessurier need for revision that really saved the building and the city. This proves how good he is as an engineer. A good engineer always considers unexpected or unusual situations.
I find your response appallingly sexist. We should certainly applaud Diane Hartley as an Engineer and as a Human Being. But to applaud her because she is a woman in this instance is sexist and denigrates everybody.
That 1:16 number is still optimistic, because you don't need a tropical storm to get five minutes' worth of TS-force winds - most of NYC's wind events come from mid-latitude cyclones in the cool season, and they can also produce 40mph+ sustained winds.
I love this guy's videos ! Having spent 40 years as an operating Engineer, Building Management ! I truly understand his Engineering concepts. His explanations are simple and concise, that even non technical folks understand. (ex) Three Mile Island. After he explains these technical hijinks, (ie) complete hydraulic failure of a DC three engine jet) he then goes on to explain something EVERY ONE who ever Operated, Flew or relied on a Mechanical system knows ! No matter how great the Engineering effort is, there is ALWAYS THE UNKNOWN OR UNEXPECTED ! And " VALUE ENGINEERING " will ALL WAYS come back to bite you in the ASS (ie) bolted joints vs Welded joints ! What all I really love about Nickolas Means presentations, like a Mordern Parable, is the Aftermath ! WHAT DID WE LEARN FROM THIS ! And without breaking my arm patting myself on the back, is that was always the message, with my crew. Unfortunately SOMEONE in today's woeld , actactualky. years ago, I'm retired, has to take the hit. My Military training (69-73) tells me it's the guy in charge. Unfortunately that doesnt exist anymore either. There are no more " STAND Up Guys or Gals ! I worked for some great gals, that had more balls than most of the men I worked for ! I truly enjoy Mr. Means, well thought out, researched and brilliantly presented presentations ! GREAT STUFF !
well, for me its pretty simple, if i screw up or make a honest mistake then i bring it up ASAP and don't worry about the bad results to me, as the worst case could be others getting hurt or worse, so speak up and take ownership of your errors and also present some potential patches, fixes, or sollutions.
I subscribed to LeadDev on a whim a week or two back, and have absolutely loved every presentation. Please, don't stop putting these up. Such interesting, insightful, and informative content. Absolutely brilliant. I'm learning Python, and although coding is only tangentially related in many episodes, it talks about such interesting things that are applicable and I enjoy how Means relates the stories to the industry. Again, simply great.
Great talk, interesting story. It's cool this is on UA-cam for free. Thx! Quote: We're not in cultures which support learning; we're in cultures that give us the message consistently: "Don't mess up, don't make mistakes, don't make the boss look bad, don't give us any surprises." So we're asking for a kind of predictability, control, respect, and compliance that has nothing to do with learning. -Walter Wristan.
What a message! It's more than just a concept, it's quite a excellent way of thinking things through and putting more effort into fixing the problems that can occur than pointing blame and creating the problem. Today's society has traveled so far away from truth that we instead of stapling back and being responsible we start blaming others for our own short comings. When the priceless character of being a person with integrity which I feel is a honorable trait and says to others that I am a person that says I'm going to follow through with what I say I'm going to do also means my word is gold. Promises are made to be broken so first of all dont make promises you just might not be able to keep.sometimes by no fault of your own things could come back to haunt you as a person who doesn't back up what the say they are going to do. They lose face, labled to have no integrity, dishonest, and not responsible for their mistakes and are seen as a possible wreck and everything that was worked for means nothing and your labeled to have no credibility. What I'm saying is don't make promises to anyone, do your best to make your word unquestionable, do what you say your going to do and follow through with that and if there ever is a problem you have established enough integrity that other will be there for you when trouble does arrive. Different story with politics today. It does not work in our present government arena. Rarely do we find individuals that have the integrity and ethics to say and do what they say they are going to do. Its more of pointing a finger at someone else and blame them for the problem instead of fixing the problem that has occurred. Take a look at politics today. We have a man that can fix issues from our corroded, corrupt, dishonest, system and with all things against him had told us what he is going to do and that's what his has done. That person is the current President of the United Stats of America. Against all odds this man has shown us a little bit of what it takes to persevere amongst a pack of wolves out to get him at every turn. We all make mistake, there is a fix and there is a cover up which indicates some form of mistake but it is usually a conscience moral dishonest event that one gets caught in the corner with no way out without destroying someone in the process. Finding the solution and to stop escalating the issue would be a blessing to all. True care and concern for others is a foundation we all could use. First look at yourself as being the problem before you start pointing fingers at others. Represent the integrity and it will follow along with you. Politician would be better of with integrity and credibility in doing what they say they will do. One man, one President is doing that today. Be the example and not the problem. God bless.
I've fallen on my sword more than a few times. I was always lucky to have supervisors who had done the same and were willing to fix what I missed. I've observed those in other departments who weren't quite as lucky. Many were demoted and in one instance, fired. I always felt my bosses wanted to help me and the department. I stayed for 30 years.
Everyone makes mistakes, your response to which is what really matters. I'm glad your bosses/supervisors treated you well, think how easily it could have gone the other way.
This is awesome - definitely sharing this with my teams. It's ok to make mistakes as long as you bring them up so that everyone involved can help to fix them. Software Engineering is relatively new and has yet to have an "atomic bomb" moment - in which an engineer builds something that is used for mass destruction (it's arguable as to whether our social media systems that mine our private data are already to this scale). Ethics is in the back seat of a lot of developers' concerns, but needs to be something we constantly think about as we build software. Ask yourself, "how could my system be used for harm?" "What would I be able to do to mitigate damage if a bad player took over this system?" And watch shows like Black Mirror to see how dangerous your software can become.
Social media already has problems. They built in end to end encryption so they can be absolved from responsibility for the content but then wonder why bad people hide behind that anonymity. You Tube and Facebook claim to support free speech it make it hard to find stuff they don’t agree with. Instead of being seen by the public and ridiculed (or liked as appropriate) it’s gone underground to be used only by those who know where to look. Quite probably exactly the very same characters the media companies want to restrict.
Why was LeMessurier talking with US Steel about a new building in Pittsburgh? The US Steel Tower had already been finished several years prior to the Citigroup building. Did a building engineered by LeMessurier ever get built in Pittsburgh? I'd love to know which one.
During the early building of the Grand pyramids(not the three neat the Sphinx) a design flaw was discovered on one of the first grand pyramids which has a different a angle at the base in mid construction they changed to a different angle, the proper angle necessary to reach a peak and prevent collapse. Though we have no written summaries of the event detailing the changes necessary I'm sure there were heads that rolled.
MyTech It really depends what era of pyramid building this dude is talking about. He could be talking about the bent pyramids built during Sneferu’s time likely either the red pyramid or the bent pyramid. It seems that they were likely bent on purpose due to some engineering hurdle they had to over come. It is hard to know anything truly concrete about the construction of those pyramids though as they are extremely ancient. The pyramids he is talking about are even more ancient than the pyramids at Giza so as such we know less about them than we do about those pyramids. What he is saying is conjecture and it seems that they were purposefully built to be at a different angle at the base than at the top because there are multiple pyramids built like that.
I'm not sure if Diane Hartley actually did better engineering than Wiliam LeMessurier did - after all he got most of his engineering right, he just missed one crucial detail. however, Hartley certainly deserves credit and recognition for discovering the flaw and displaying great professional ethics by ensuring her discovery didn't end up as simply another university paper, but reporting it to people that could repair the flaw and ensuring it succeeded. if I were LeMessurier, I'd hire her right on the spot.
Interestingly if this all happened today there'd have been no chance of the engineering and architecture company being sued. They're not the entity that went off design and threw a few hundred bolts into a place where welds were supposed to go.
he pointed out in the middle that the NY office of his engineering firm approved the switch, just he was unaware of it himself. It would be a huge form of neglect to sign off on the construction observation and not notice the wrong type of fasteners being there in the process. This one is similar to the Kansas City skywalk collapse wherein the Contractor or fabricator suggested a change and the structural engineering firm missed the problem- although that one was full on professional misconduct for the engineer as he approved of the change without checking the design at all, whereas here it was a loading situation they failed to design for and the code failed to mandate design for. Other thing too is this had a failure chance of 1 in 55 in a year, but that skywalk was coming down sooner rather than later, and its own weight could do it alone
After this has happened, the architect's insurance said they would have to raise his premiums. The architect's office assistant, a former army officer, then went head to head with the insurance's rep, stating that they should, in fact, _lower_ his premiums, because LeMessurier's actions had saved them a pretty substantial chunk of change. And they did indeed lower his annual premium. Source: a talk by LeMessurier that is also here on UA-cam.
I remember when this building was profiled in TIME magazine in the 1970s. As a newly opened building in NYC, TIME came down from the TIME-LIFE center to check it out. It destroyed a church that got space in the new building and had the unique triangle on top. Anytime after if I saw the New York skyline on TV I would think "there's the place that was in TIME magazine". This is the first I heard of its structrual issues. At least they were dealt with and that place is still there. Unlike two other skyscrapers in Manhatten that I saw with my own two eyes years ago. Anytime I see them on TV I gasp...
I am no one, I just am the president of a very insignificant 38 unit HOA. I grew up in the 70, 80 when bosses would yell and fire, I swore I would never be like that. I deal with contractors that trim our trees and do landscaping and irrigation as well run the HOA. I do just what you say. A tree is cut down and a branch goes into the ground cut a sprinkler line. I don’t get upset, the tree contractor says they will fix the brake. I tell them no I have a crew. Call out our crew it’s only a 1 to 2 hour repair. The HOA pays the repair I never pass the bill on 115 dollars. Tree crew has put some di it’s in laws. Tell them not to worry. We have this company for 8 years each year the owner shows up and bids our work and we are at the same rate for 8 years. The owner mentions “ your our smallest account but I feather do work for you then our largest customer that pay top dollars. If they repaired the sprinkler line the next year our rates would go up. Same with our landscaping company I treat them fair, always talk with respect and business like. Never have I threaten to sue, always let talk and figure this out. In 3 years the landscapers have increased our fees by 5%. Far less then their other customers. It is just amazing how if you treat people and companies honestly and fair it saves you money and you end up with long term working relationships. We are a small HOA and I am no one with a degree, but where I live is treated well by large companies and respected. I am retired bus driver and former laborer and now president of a HOA and the love business working with other businesses.
there was a new building being built in Tucson. And someone was driving past this project on the freeway on Saturday. The driver in this car noticed that new building was leaning? lol Yup, that building was starting to lean from the wind or something. Once the city got the message, they had to call out that construction company to get out there and straighten that building before it blew over.
I am watching this during Covid 19 and it occurs to me, seeing the commuter traveling in the graffiti covered train how millions of people world wide commute to cities that they cannot afforfd to live in, to work 8 hours or so in a hugely expensive building only to return home at the end of their working day to an area that they can afford (or want) to live. These city high rises are cutting edge developments 'seemingly' pushing the envelope of safety at the best of times! Add to that the risk of natural disaster (or human disaster, 9-11) to what end? Ego boost? 50 years ago communications were still by todays standards rudimentary, today things are better. Do we need these seperate economic zones we call cities?
The grad student did common calculations; the design team blew it. And a wind study engineer admitted in a video that they just did perpendicular wind models, adding to a chain of fault. If City had sued, it would make headlines; making a 6 million loss more acceptable.
The city couldn't sue as they are also to blame as their own board failed to see the issue as well. Seems less of the Architect screwing up as more of the Builder wanting a bigger profit margin.
For what it's worth, seems like if the later changes weren't made it'd have been fine in any case. Changes post design like this are a common cause for engineering disaster
The thing you may have missed in this lovely analogy is painfully clear to me. The original, and defining mistakes in the building of that thing were not part of Lemessuier's planning and he was was unaware of them till the thing was finished. Also, when the final assessment of responsibility finally came down it came down on him anyway. Also, the church was a shambles in the first place and it was his inspiration and understanding that brought about the possibility of it's replacement.And this, after this went "wrong" any notion of any Bill and any religion, or even any ground breaking idea has become targeted for graft and corruption from the beginning. The situation was created beyond his controls and responsibilities, The good of it was plainly his work and dedication. He paid, from his perspective dearly for the opportunities and aggrandizement of his "friends" and created a trend of sacrificing the ethical that runs so deep in our culture now that I doubt it will die out before our culture does, all as a gesture to one very corrupt bank's probably corrupt CEO's ego. Ain't it grand. See if you can sue me.
Yes, it happens to be an optical illusion of sorts that is individual to you due to what you expect to see and are seeing not matching up, some geometric detail being unusual. I'd say it's not entirely unreasonable to expect to see a panning footage of the skyline while white letters naturally would stay still since they're just pasted on top, so i wouldn't worry about it.
Seems like when they are spending $195 million on a new york skyscraper, an $8 million cost over-run to fix some structural issues isn't the worst thing in the world, and probably not worth taking the case to trial, where the mistake would be more widely publicised.
actually he could have, there are many examples of people ignoring their failure (or claiming they did nothing wrong) and allowing a catastrophe to happen. that's how human brain works - when confronted with such a grave situation, it's easy for us to ignore the problem in hope that it would go away, or at least that when the shit hits the fan, we'll be far away from it. admitting our own mistake and working to solve it requires remarkable courage, self-control and sense of ethics.
Its a great story, as i can bet if they would have involved lawyers the suit would still be going on to this day and in the end it would cost 80 times the original cost, bottom line, lawyers aren't always needed or beneficial
Nice story, but all it takes is one guy that wants to look good in all of this, doesn't care about how anyone else gets out of it and has no problem to throw anyone under the bus to get to where he wants to go. Surely that hardly ever happens, right?
Yeah, when you find a way around that be sure to let everyone know. You'll be hailed as a hero for eliminating one of the main causes of disasters and corruption in the world, single handedly.
Wasn't there i believe in japan these builings with concrete mixed with rubber so they'd be earthtquake-proof. They were yes... the buildings did not collapse, but everything on board just got katapulted right through the windows cause the movement made the skyscrapers go waving from the front to the back so that people hiding under their table just got launched like a jet on a carrier?!? The building still stood when the earth stopped shaking. But anyone who was inside... probably was found miles away from their adress. Must have been a hell of a flight. Too b1d they weren't equipped whit a parachute... in that case it could have really been fun i guess. My son would have said : again! Again!
I would love to see this guy take on a discussion of how the electric universe people should proceed with contending with existing nonsense most adhere to concerning the cosmology of a universe without electricity.
@Just Looking Two forces yes, but electricity is a billion times a billion times stronger. So much stronger, in fact, that adding gravity to a simulation of electrical formation of galaxies makes no difference.
He knows to watch out for simmilar faults, thus enhancing the collective knowledge....assuming these things become known, so much doesnt, many a builder overlooks little things, , and inspectors are fast moving , busy people....building still fail.
The Democrats needed to watch this before jumping on trump's campaign pledge to the people. And he fallows throughly supports the idea that the United states is a nation that has great potential if they work together and that is the way to go forwards and the world will see it.
Another important aspect of this situation is that bill listened to the grad student.
Many people with his level of experience in the industry would have ignored the concern raised by the grad student because they were a student criticizing the work of a seasoned professional. Instead of being insulted by the students claims he took the time to evaluate them instead of dismissing them simply because they came from someone with no industry experience.
Not true, THAT depends on the way it is presented.
There's more to this than we got here. Apparently the two never spoke. Joel Weinstein, a junior engineer in the firm, went to LeMessurier after Hartley asked him for the quartering wind calculations. Weinstein couldn't find them.
@@gasdive Why am i not surprized...lol...this and "the bolter"...makes my hair stand on end, i've seen the foundations wash awaywww.abc.net.au/news/2005-11-02/sydney-residents-evacuated-over-building-collapse/2136826 or just fall away on a few buildings, the dread is palpable to state the obvious.
@@scottleft3672 yep. There's so much dodgy stuff going on.
@@gasdive And then some...lol.
I LOVE this guy's presentations! They are always insightful, soft spoken, and given in such love and compassion.
Under his Skunkworks presentation, many people said they wanted him to talk about aviation all day long. They miss the point, do they not? :D
...To be fair, that video was like 40+ minutes long (actually can't recall) and in relation to that his translations into computer developement were quite short so many people may have not gotten the memo in the first place...
@@curious.biochemist k?
This is a really good example of why 'support the person, challenge the behavior' is such an important skillset to have.
Citi didnt want a long drawn out court case splashed out over TV involving their building being a dangerous,unsteady disaster, exactly the opposite of the image they wanted to project. Its also why NYC didnt make a fuss.............they missed it also and themselves would have breathed a big sigh of relief that the problem was identified and fixed quickly.
Thats the result of ignoring a problem, they didn't.
I believe a better explanation is the people in charge of the buildings dept are not politicians but engineers themselves. Smart people recognize problems and don't blame others. They understand the magnitude of the issue and just want to do the right thing. No cynical behavior allowed here.
OMG! I didn't finish the video and after posting I heard him say exactly what I said like he read my mind in the past.
as an engineering student, these are the stories that keep me going. what an amazing presentation.
Wait till you hit the building site...lol.
@@scottleft3672 yep. What he skims over is that this wasn't the engineer at all. The engineer designed welded joints. Welded joints were in the costings. The builder quoted for welded joints and was paid for welded joints. Welded joints were in the information given to NYC.
The builder decided they knew better and a couple of bolts would be fine.
I've had my own small experience of this. My family built a house. The architect designed the trusses for the roof using a then new structure that was inherently stronger than the traditional design. That let him specify thinner, lighter beams. The stupid builder ignored the drawings and built what they were used to, using the thin wood. The building inspector condemned it. The "fix" was to nail a whole bunch of braces through the roof nearly at random. As far as I could tell they added weight but no strength. 10 years after construction the roof sagged and twisted all the walls making it impossible to open the windows.
It's nothing compared to the scale of knocking down half of New York, but it was a big hit for my family.
@@gasdive I know your pain young brother...lol...ive worked for some real cowboys, and some actual proper gentlemen, the bad is only 15% at worst, 10% generally, they tend to canabalize what they or "a mate' has, in their yard, but when they are doing things like THIS.... www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/dec/26/opal-tower-cracks-nsw-government-urgent-investigation OMFG how do they sleep at night...I WAS a builders labourer, i became a brickies labourer then a trowel then a stonemason, i much prefer sub contracting or working alone with my son, the less people = the more job satisfaction in my view.....seeing something YOU built, alone....is very satisfying, though team effort is nearly as good....good luck and enjoy.
@@scottleft3672 oh God, opal towers. Yes a disgrace. Nothing innovative there. Should have just gone up and been fine for a hundred years.
My experiences were in Sydney too, but it seems to be global. Grenfel towers coated in basically the same stuff that's used as rocket fuel in the space shuttle solid rocket boosters. I'm sure someone saved a few bob on that one.
@@gasdive There is a 4 corners show about it, there is NO REQUIREMENT for the safe one....STILL....crimminal, a building in Melbourn caught fire and that very same stuff went up like thermite as it IS aluminium based, seems ANY oxide will suffice for a reaction, it just depends on the ignition temp, crimminal... ua-cam.com/video/gnTZLzXq8fU/v-deo.html
I work in a business where the key is to fix blame, not problems first. The most amazing thing I ever heard in my life "IF YOU DON'T SHOW ME, I WON'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT, IF I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT, THEY WON'T ASK ME TO DO IT, IF THEY DON'T ASK ME TO DO IT, I CAN'T FUCK IT UP, IF I DON'T FUCK IT UP, I WON'T GET IN TROUBLE"
This is a good story for a tragedy averted but I think the grad student girl deserved much more recognition and appreciation for her diligence especially since she was just a student and Bill is even bigger a man for giving a damn to her questions and thoughts. Thank you.
I like your speeches, they are inspiring. They are positive and remarkable, thank you!
I learned early on that telling that I made a mistake before it was discovered would get me through OK.
If I was confronted about a mistake I did not realize I had made, then simple honesty and truth also got me through.
My superiors always appreciated that.
Another great talk by Nickolas Means - really glad I've stumbled into these, great lessons in each one!
Diane Hartley is a heroine. Someone give that woman a medal!
Not only her, but William LeMessurier himself. Diane Hartley brought the issue onto the table, in a very vague way. It was William LeMessurier need for revision that really saved the building and the city. This proves how good he is as an engineer. A good engineer always considers unexpected or unusual situations.
I find your response appallingly sexist. We should certainly applaud Diane Hartley as an Engineer and as a Human Being. But to applaud her because she is a woman in this instance is sexist and denigrates everybody.
Agreed. Women in engineering should be thought of engineers who happen to be female not "female engineers"
Patroness saint of backseat drivers.
@@Agnemons I'm sorry you read it that way. I would have said the same thing if she were male or nonbinary.
That 1:16 number is still optimistic, because you don't need a tropical storm to get five minutes' worth of TS-force winds - most of NYC's wind events come from mid-latitude cyclones in the cool season, and they can also produce 40mph+ sustained winds.
I love this guy's videos ! Having spent 40 years as an operating Engineer, Building Management ! I truly understand his Engineering concepts. His explanations are simple and concise, that even non technical folks understand. (ex) Three Mile Island. After he explains these technical hijinks, (ie) complete hydraulic failure of a DC three engine jet) he then goes on to explain something EVERY ONE who ever Operated, Flew or relied on a Mechanical system knows ! No matter how great the Engineering effort is, there is ALWAYS THE UNKNOWN OR UNEXPECTED ! And " VALUE ENGINEERING " will ALL WAYS come back to bite you in the ASS (ie) bolted joints vs Welded joints ! What all I really love about Nickolas Means presentations, like a Mordern Parable, is the Aftermath ! WHAT DID WE LEARN FROM THIS ! And without breaking my arm patting myself on the back, is that was always the message, with my crew. Unfortunately SOMEONE in today's woeld , actactualky. years ago, I'm retired, has to take the hit. My Military training (69-73) tells me it's the guy in charge. Unfortunately that doesnt exist anymore either. There are no more " STAND Up Guys or Gals ! I worked for some great gals, that had more balls than most of the men I worked for ! I truly enjoy Mr. Means, well thought out, researched and brilliantly presented presentations ! GREAT STUFF !
Working on improving my professional life and I absolutely love these talks.
This guy is great! What a wonderful presentation! True life lessons on leadership and transparency.
well, for me its pretty simple, if i screw up or make a honest mistake then i bring it up ASAP and don't worry about the bad results to me, as the worst case could be others getting hurt or worse, so speak up and take ownership of your errors and also present some potential patches, fixes, or sollutions.
Brilliant
Thanks for this talk!
Key takeout: Policy of transparency and avoiding blame-game, looking for solution instead
I subscribed to LeadDev on a whim a week or two back, and have absolutely loved every presentation. Please, don't stop putting these up. Such interesting, insightful, and informative content. Absolutely brilliant. I'm learning Python, and although coding is only tangentially related in many episodes, it talks about such interesting things that are applicable and I enjoy how Means relates the stories to the industry. Again, simply great.
This is a brilliant example of human integrity and applied ethics, regardless of personal and financial risks. And brilliantly presented!
You sir are absolutely one of my new favorite speakers. I'd very much like to attend one of these conferences!
what a beautiful presentation, thanks Nickolas
Great talk, interesting story. It's cool this is on UA-cam for free. Thx!
Quote: We're not in cultures which support learning; we're in cultures that give us the message consistently: "Don't mess up, don't make mistakes, don't make the boss look bad, don't give us any surprises." So we're asking for a kind of predictability, control, respect, and compliance that has nothing to do with learning.
-Walter Wristan.
we learned about this in engineering school in a discussion about ethics! This and Challenger are really important engineering ethics topics
Challenger had an ethics issue? Wasn't that the O-ring one????
Highly effective presentation.
What a message! It's more than just a concept, it's quite a excellent way of thinking things through and putting more effort into fixing the problems that can occur than pointing blame and creating the problem. Today's society has traveled so far away from truth that we instead of stapling back and being responsible we start blaming others for our own short comings. When the priceless character of being a person with integrity which I feel is a honorable trait and says to others that I am a person that says I'm going to follow through with what I say I'm going to do also means my word is gold. Promises are made to be broken so first of all dont make promises you just might not be able to keep.sometimes by no fault of your own things could come back to haunt you as a person who doesn't back up what the say they are going to do. They lose face, labled to have no integrity, dishonest, and not responsible for their mistakes and are seen as a possible wreck and everything that was worked for means nothing and your labeled to have no credibility. What I'm saying is don't make promises to anyone, do your best to make your word unquestionable, do what you say your going to do and follow through with that and if there ever is a problem you have established enough integrity that other will be there for you when trouble does arrive. Different story with politics today. It does not work in our present government arena. Rarely do we find individuals that have the integrity and ethics to say and do what they say they are going to do. Its more of pointing a finger at someone else and blame them for the problem instead of fixing the problem that has occurred. Take a look at politics today. We have a man that can fix issues from our corroded, corrupt, dishonest, system and with all things against him had told us what he is going to do and that's what his has done. That person is the current President of the United Stats of America. Against all odds this man has shown us a little bit of what it takes to persevere amongst a pack of wolves out to get him at every turn. We all make mistake, there is a fix and there is a cover up which indicates some form of mistake but it is usually a conscience moral dishonest event that one gets caught in the corner with no way out without destroying someone in the process. Finding the solution and to stop escalating the issue would be a blessing to all. True care and concern for others is a foundation we all could use. First look at yourself as being the problem before you start pointing fingers at others. Represent the integrity and it will follow along with you. Politician would be better of with integrity and credibility in doing what they say they will do. One man, one President is doing that today. Be the example and not the problem. God bless.
Excellent presentation and life lessons, thank you
I've fallen on my sword more than a few times. I was always lucky to have supervisors who had done the same and were willing to fix what I missed. I've observed those in other departments who weren't quite as lucky. Many were demoted and in one instance, fired. I always felt my bosses wanted to help me and the department. I stayed for 30 years.
Everyone makes mistakes, your response to which is what really matters. I'm glad your bosses/supervisors treated you well, think how easily it could have gone the other way.
This is awesome - definitely sharing this with my teams. It's ok to make mistakes as long as you bring them up so that everyone involved can help to fix them.
Software Engineering is relatively new and has yet to have an "atomic bomb" moment - in which an engineer builds something that is used for mass destruction (it's arguable as to whether our social media systems that mine our private data are already to this scale). Ethics is in the back seat of a lot of developers' concerns, but needs to be something we constantly think about as we build software. Ask yourself, "how could my system be used for harm?" "What would I be able to do to mitigate damage if a bad player took over this system?" And watch shows like Black Mirror to see how dangerous your software can become.
Social media already has problems. They built in end to end encryption so they can be absolved from responsibility for the content but then wonder why bad people hide behind that anonymity.
You Tube and Facebook claim to support free speech it make it hard to find stuff they don’t agree with. Instead of being seen by the public and ridiculed (or liked as appropriate) it’s gone underground to be used only by those who know where to look. Quite probably exactly the very same characters the media companies want to restrict.
Excellent advice on correcting errors and achieving a successful goal.
Why was LeMessurier talking with US Steel about a new building in Pittsburgh? The US Steel Tower had already been finished several years prior to the Citigroup building. Did a building engineered by LeMessurier ever get built in Pittsburgh? I'd love to know which one.
Top notch presentation, always inspiring. !!! Thank you
As someone that working in production support this is also a good example of needing to understand the product and the impact of your change.
interesting, would like more detail on repairs...pictures etc....thank you
Very inspiring
During the early building of the Grand pyramids(not the three neat the Sphinx) a design flaw was discovered on one of the first grand pyramids which has a different a angle at the base in mid construction they changed to a different angle, the proper angle necessary to reach a peak and prevent collapse. Though we have no written summaries of the event detailing the changes necessary I'm sure there were heads that rolled.
So for all anybody knows it may have just been designed with two angles right from the start.
MyTech It really depends what era of pyramid building this dude is talking about. He could be talking about the bent pyramids built during Sneferu’s time likely either the red pyramid or the bent pyramid. It seems that they were likely bent on purpose due to some engineering hurdle they had to over come. It is hard to know anything truly concrete about the construction of those pyramids though as they are extremely ancient. The pyramids he is talking about are even more ancient than the pyramids at Giza so as such we know less about them than we do about those pyramids. What he is saying is conjecture and it seems that they were purposefully built to be at a different angle at the base than at the top because there are multiple pyramids built like that.
Liz Friedman wrote an episode of Numb3rs based on this story. I wondered why it sounded familiar! Amazing presentation as always!
Bravo sir!
I think the girl should get more recognition for her analysis and discovery. She did better engineering than the designer did.
I'm not sure if Diane Hartley actually did better engineering than Wiliam LeMessurier did - after all he got most of his engineering right, he just missed one crucial detail. however, Hartley certainly deserves credit and recognition for discovering the flaw and displaying great professional ethics by ensuring her discovery didn't end up as simply another university paper, but reporting it to people that could repair the flaw and ensuring it succeeded. if I were LeMessurier, I'd hire her right on the spot.
Interestingly if this all happened today there'd have been no chance of the engineering and architecture company being sued. They're not the entity that went off design and threw a few hundred bolts into a place where welds were supposed to go.
he pointed out in the middle that the NY office of his engineering firm approved the switch, just he was unaware of it himself. It would be a huge form of neglect to sign off on the construction observation and not notice the wrong type of fasteners being there in the process. This one is similar to the Kansas City skywalk collapse wherein the Contractor or fabricator suggested a change and the structural engineering firm missed the problem- although that one was full on professional misconduct for the engineer as he approved of the change without checking the design at all, whereas here it was a loading situation they failed to design for and the code failed to mandate design for.
Other thing too is this had a failure chance of 1 in 55 in a year, but that skywalk was coming down sooner rather than later, and its own weight could do it alone
Remember, this was before the skywalk tragedy, so the lessons from that disaster weren't there yet.
@@jeffreyhueseman7061 right, I only brought it up as a point of comparison
After this has happened, the architect's insurance said they would have to raise his premiums.
The architect's office assistant, a former army officer, then went head to head with the insurance's rep, stating that they should, in fact, _lower_ his premiums, because LeMessurier's actions had saved them a pretty substantial chunk of change. And they did indeed lower his annual premium.
Source: a talk by LeMessurier that is also here on UA-cam.
I remember when this building was profiled in TIME magazine in the 1970s. As a newly opened building in NYC, TIME came down from the TIME-LIFE center to check it out. It destroyed a church that got space in the new building and had the unique triangle on top. Anytime after if I saw the New York skyline on TV I would think "there's the place that was in TIME magazine". This is the first I heard of its structrual issues. At least they were dealt with and that place is still there.
Unlike two other skyscrapers in Manhatten that I saw with my own two eyes years ago. Anytime I see them on TV I gasp...
I am no one, I just am the president of a very insignificant 38 unit HOA. I grew up in the 70, 80 when bosses would yell and fire, I swore I would never be like that. I deal with contractors that trim our trees and do landscaping and irrigation as well run the HOA. I do just what you say. A tree is cut down and a branch goes into the ground cut a sprinkler line. I don’t get upset, the tree contractor says they will fix the brake. I tell them no I have a crew. Call out our crew it’s only a 1 to 2 hour repair. The HOA pays the repair I never pass the bill on 115 dollars. Tree crew has put some di it’s in laws. Tell them not to worry. We have this company for 8 years each year the owner shows up and bids our work and we are at the same rate for 8 years. The owner mentions “ your our smallest account but I feather do work for you then our largest customer that pay top dollars. If they repaired the sprinkler line the next year our rates would go up. Same with our landscaping company I treat them fair, always talk with respect and business like. Never have I threaten to sue, always let talk and figure this out. In 3 years the landscapers have increased our fees by 5%. Far less then their other customers. It is just amazing how if you treat people and companies honestly and fair it saves you money and you end up with long term working relationships. We are a small HOA and I am no one with a degree, but where I live is treated well by large companies and respected. I am retired bus driver and former laborer and now president of a HOA and the love business working with other businesses.
Great story! How about a talk on WTC 7?
Yes! www.ae911truth.org/news/656-wtc-7-not-destroyed-by-fire-concludes-final-university-of-alaska-fairbanks-report
Moral of the story...design a standard normal building and save a lot of problems and risk for everyone.
there was a new building being built in Tucson. And someone was driving past this project on the freeway on Saturday. The driver in this car noticed that new building was leaning? lol Yup, that building was starting to lean from the wind or something. Once the city got the message, they had to call out that construction company to get out there and straighten that building before it blew over.
Stayed in a place that looks very similar in Tokyo.
I am watching this during Covid 19 and it occurs to me, seeing the commuter traveling in the graffiti covered train how millions of people world wide commute to cities that they cannot afforfd to live in, to work 8 hours or so in a hugely expensive building only to return home at the end of their working day to an area that they can afford (or want) to live.
These city high rises are cutting edge developments 'seemingly' pushing the envelope of safety at the best of times!
Add to that the risk of natural disaster (or human disaster, 9-11) to what end? Ego boost? 50 years ago communications were still by todays standards rudimentary, today things are better. Do we need these seperate economic zones we call cities?
The grad student did common calculations; the design team blew it.
And a wind study engineer admitted in a video that they just did
perpendicular wind models, adding to a chain of fault.
If City had sued, it would make headlines; making a 6 million loss more acceptable.
The city couldn't sue as they are also to blame as their own board failed to see the issue as well. Seems less of the Architect screwing up as more of the Builder wanting a bigger profit margin.
For what it's worth, seems like if the later changes weren't made it'd have been fine in any case. Changes post design like this are a common cause for engineering disaster
I wonder if these events inspired the Numb3rs episode "Structural Corruption"?
The thing you may have missed in this lovely analogy is painfully clear to me. The original, and defining mistakes in the building of that thing were not part of Lemessuier's planning and he was was unaware of them till the thing was finished. Also, when the final assessment of responsibility finally came down it came down on him anyway. Also, the church was a shambles in the first place and it was his inspiration and understanding that brought about the possibility of it's replacement.And this, after this went "wrong" any notion of any Bill and any religion, or even any ground breaking idea has become targeted for graft and corruption from the beginning.
The situation was created beyond his controls and responsibilities, The good of it was plainly his work and dedication. He paid, from his perspective dearly for the opportunities and aggrandizement of his "friends" and created a trend of sacrificing the ethical that runs so deep in our culture now that I doubt it will die out before our culture does, all as a gesture to one very corrupt bank's probably corrupt CEO's ego. Ain't it grand.
See if you can sue me.
First recognition should go to Ms Hartley. Then to the acceptance of her findings. From there all else flowed. Without it, disaster.
27:33 Is it my imagination or is that building moving behind the big white letters?
Yes, it happens to be an optical illusion of sorts that is individual to you due to what you expect to see and are seeing not matching up, some geometric detail being unusual. I'd say it's not entirely unreasonable to expect to see a panning footage of the skyline while white letters naturally would stay still since they're just pasted on top, so i wouldn't worry about it.
Seems like when they are spending $195 million on a new york skyscraper, an $8 million cost over-run to fix some structural issues isn't the worst thing in the world, and probably not worth taking the case to trial, where the mistake would be more widely publicised.
He didn't really have many options did he? what else was he going to do let the building fall down?
actually he could have, there are many examples of people ignoring their failure (or claiming they did nothing wrong) and allowing a catastrophe to happen. that's how human brain works - when confronted with such a grave situation, it's easy for us to ignore the problem in hope that it would go away, or at least that when the shit hits the fan, we'll be far away from it. admitting our own mistake and working to solve it requires remarkable courage, self-control and sense of ethics.
Its a great story, as i can bet if they would have involved lawyers the suit would still be going on to this day and in the end it would cost 80 times the original cost, bottom line, lawyers aren't always needed or beneficial
All good for sure. But what would have happened if that grad student hadn't checked the math ? Remember hurricane Sandy.
The captions for this video are terrible. =(
There’s not enough people like that transparent dude
He's like Michael from VSauce but for engineering ahaha
Nice story, but all it takes is one guy that wants to look good in all of this, doesn't care about how anyone else gets out of it and has no problem to throw anyone under the bus to get to where he wants to go. Surely that hardly ever happens, right?
Those who want to look good, over responsibility, run for the Presidency.
NM is good. He has other vids too.
Yeah, when you find a way around that be sure to let everyone know. You'll be hailed as a hero for eliminating one of the main causes of disasters and corruption in the world, single handedly.
Branching out from airplanes to buildings, huh? :P
Wasn't there i believe in japan these builings with concrete mixed with rubber so they'd be earthtquake-proof. They were yes... the buildings did not collapse, but everything on board just got katapulted right through the windows cause the movement made the skyscrapers go waving from the front to the back so that people hiding under their table just got launched like a jet on a carrier?!? The building still stood when the earth stopped shaking. But anyone who was inside... probably was found miles away from their adress. Must have been a hell of a flight. Too b1d they weren't equipped whit a parachute... in that case it could have really been fun i guess. My son would have said : again! Again!
amazing presentation. But the least believable part here is the talk about a structural engineer with a private island.
Biggest problem of modern governance is the access to cheap debt.
10:18 - 11:05
I would love to see this guy take on a discussion of how the electric universe people should proceed with contending with existing nonsense most adhere to concerning the cosmology of a universe without electricity.
@Just Looking Two forces yes, but electricity is a billion times a billion times stronger. So much stronger, in fact, that adding gravity to a simulation of electrical formation of galaxies makes no difference.
The original design is similar to believing that a 200-pound man could walk with more stability if he wore 5-inch stiletto heels...
He knows to watch out for simmilar faults, thus enhancing the collective knowledge....assuming these things become known, so much doesnt, many a builder overlooks little things, , and inspectors are fast moving , busy people....building still fail.
That Mr Means missed this puts all his observations and leadership wisdom nuggets into question.
... Missed what?
This Mr. Zewalk has no grasp of the English language!!!! Most insecure people immediately find fault in other people’s works.
Chevrons are upside down.
And then mayor Bill De Blasio commands all skyscrapers must come down!
Trump should tired this guy. Don't care if you DON'T like Trump ! But seems we need a guy who can get people working together
The false familiar famous brush acly spill because run fortunately long following a roomy bubble. forgetful, truthful willow
The Democrats needed to watch this before jumping on trump's campaign pledge to the people. And he fallows throughly supports the idea that the United states is a nation that has great potential if they work together and that is the way to go forwards and the world will see it.
I love the subject mater, but this guy.... not good. i just cant get by it, there is something so off putting about this speaker.
I like your speeches, they are inspiring. They are positive and remarkable, thank you!