as someone who doesn’t collect graded, i think a major grading company losing its value sounds like a dream come true. imagine all the dirt cheap slabs i could crack and put in set binders lol
Really doubt cgc cards will go down enough to make them “dirt cheap”. If so the amount of high value cards in cgc slabs is so high that people would just crack them and resubmit themselves. Also theres like a billion small grading companies out there, there nothing holding you back from just cracking those. Ur just dumb asf
A lot of people don't know they also did this in Yugioh. They claimed to authenticate multiple magic and wizard test print cards that turned out to be fake. Only reason it didn't blow up as much is cause Yugioh isn't as strong as collecting hobby as Pokémon. When I saw that mess it made me very skeptical and stay away from these cards.
What I'm not understanding is how in the hell do all these "elite hobbyists" believe "test" cards "that old" and that many.... MINT!!! I get maybe a set or 2 but this many was a red flag from the beginning but everyone saw them as a cash grab like everything else and to the market they went 🤔 WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT HOW MUCH CORRUPTION IS ACTUALLY IN THIS HOBBY NOW. Great job as always 👏
That was one of my concerns early on too. Also the overwhelming number of cards and different layouts seemed strange given the relatively short window for playtesting. I don't know . . . it's plausible extra sets were printed and never used, but strange that they would have been kept or protected, especially since there was no reason to believe they would ever be worth something.
When it comes to the payout for these cards. Who is going to pay for this mistake? Insurance? 1- I would think there is a clause in their contract, that states, they will NOT cards like this. Test/concept or cards. Sure they still could grade them but it wouldn’t mean they would be covered. If this is true, Matt has a lot of explaining to do. 2- Say they will cover cards like that. They will do their own investigation. Depending on what they find. Like if they find out they authenticated them solely on the word of one person, nothing more. From what understand there were multiple submissions. Did CGC call that one person for each individual submission? Either way I promise you they will look for a way not to pay. CGC- Honestly I think CGC will not pay anything near the purchase price for this cards. The estimated loss people have been saying, is from 5-20 million. They don’t have that kind of money. Now they want everyone to send their cards in, to examine. It’s actually, so they have the leverage. That they can low ball the buyer. It’s also possible they will try to deny a payout to the buyers that will not send theirs cards in, when told to. Not matter what happens this will affect the hobby in so many different ways far a long time!
This is what I fear too . . . that cards will be used as leverage to undercompensate buyers. I'm hoping that's not the case and that CGC finds away to make buyers whole. Auction houses offering refunds is probably the best outcome. They have much more resources and influences to seek restitution from whomever is responsibility (after investigations have concluded).
I think tag will take over with their grading and the process. They literally give you a grading kit, detailed breakdown on why your card got the grade it got vs psa where you’ll never know why.
The grading kit only comes with a bulk submission of a minimum of 25+ cards, depending on the tier. But I agree with you that TAG may take over if grading companies don't step up. Even PSA may lose in the long run if they keep upcharging as well.
Thank goodness I never bought any CGC cards. I feel bad for people that graded with them. Whether you like it or not, the bad news is out and there will always be that stain on their record, meaning people will second guess buying CGC graded cards. The hardcore community will always be reasonable, but the casuals will hear about it and run, it is what it is.
Casual here: I bought my first graded card a couple months ago, it happened to be from PSA. Now I want all in the same style, so anything else isn’t an option anyway
Nope, I realized I said "monster" while editing and thought about refilming. Instead, I just hoped no one would notice. Thanks for being the one to notice. Sorry Scott (PFM)!
Fake cards and coins in graded slabs is nothing new, unfortunately for some items the information on such things is limited or lost so many grading companies make the same mistakes even PSA.
I think there needs to be a bigger convo about these creatures employees because going out of his way - as a former creator of this game doing this to the community is batshit insane and kinda evil to me.
I personally won't ever purchase a cgc card from this point forward. I will also not be sending any cards to get graded. This is just me, but I'm sure there are others that feel the same. The company is in charge of literally valuing your cards. That trust is GONE
You would think that professional graders would have knowledge of such a simple process (been around for decades, so not much of a discovery) as part of their methodology to grade a card. CGC really blew it
Their comic book grading is full of scandals too, recently adding previously not available grades - I wouldn’t touch after watching their UA-cam channel too!
Sgc and psa have the same 4 billion dollar backer. Cgcs is closer to 2 billion Becketts is like 1 billion So cgc and beckett have slightly less room for error, cgc will lawyer up that anybody who sends them back the prototype will get cooked they cant lose a 10s or 100s or millions dollars for the company.
If the pokemon company themselves wont confirm authenticity on such lucrative cards with next to no info on, then they should be assumed as fake. They shouldnt grade a card without production data to validate its an official licensed product
I think there can be a balance. There are ways to determine a cards' legitimacy (beyond a reasonable doubt); however it must be done thoroughly and systematically. To be fair, I don't know what process or criteria CGC used, but it appears they relied to heavily on provenance without enough attention to physical attributes.
I mean, is it not a thing that something to be that valuable is being rare? Like there are 2000+ tera umbreon PSA 10, and more in the making, but that New mew? That should actually worth the grading, like the whole thing is so distorted I dont see the point, specially on New sets
CGC will be fine for the broader market. But that’s as long as they don’t fumble their response too hard. Everyone crying already, it’s too early, give it some time.
I am a PSA advocate; however, I think the competition CGC offers is necessary. PSA is far from perfect and having viable competitors like CGC in the market is the only way to ensure that prices, turnaround times, and customer service remain competitive. A PSA monopoly isn't good for anyone.
Obviously its cgc faulty for grading fake card and i think a refund should be issued but only the cost of the grade itself. The people who bought and sold Obviously fake cards thats on them.
You ended with this “is an opportunity” and “could be a huge PR win”. No. It was an opportunity and COULD HAVE BEEN a huge PR win but they passed on the opportunity and I’m never grading with them now nor will I purchase their product. Reputation is everything when it comes to my “investing” in graded product. I want a grading company that I have confidence will stand the test of time. This company is dead to me.
That's fair . . . their window of opportunity to restore costumer trust has probably closed for many following their initial press release. However, I think it's reasonable for them to wait a few weeks to physically review the cards and confirm the fraud before announcing a comprehensive and FULL refund process. If they did this, instead of keeping people waiting or forcing litigation, I think they will have earned some respect. I'm skeptical that they will do this though . . . just my opinion.
Dont forget the 10,000 of thousands of FAKE 1ST Edition stamped vintage cards CGC graded. Competition is great unless a failure from tge begging like Cgc lol.
Wait, are you suggesting CGC has graded thousands of fake-stamp vintage cards? This is the first I've hear of this, can you refer me to a source of some kind (video, article, etc)?
@pokemon_classics I know it was really bad in the west coast, particularly Washington aera. Tons of Fossil, Team Rocket, and Varioius Neo sets, lots of common and uncommoncard's. I think rattle might of covered it briefly, however it happened about the same time his channel started, so I'm not sure. I do know there were
it's funny to me because every youtuber says nothing good about psa BUT almost every youtuber will submit to them PSA is literally back logged right now drowning in money even with everyone talking bad about them. meanwhile cgc and becket have major issues going on
I like PSA, but I'm not going to pretend they are perfect. Problems of inconsistency, misgrades, turnaround times, and service levels are inevitable when grading. It's an imperfect system, but so is life. Overall, I've been content with PSA's service over my 15 years of grading Pokemon cards.
Sites like eBay definitely have responsibility. Especially eBay since they check and guarantee authenticity. Your bias is showing a bit in your focus of the blame
The authenticity guarantee is to verify that the product is legitimate and matches what was advertised in the description/photos, not to reproduce or overturn research that's already been done by a professional grading company. Often, people would sell fake slabs, different cards, or send empty boxes to a buyer. In my opinion, eBay (and other sites) are there to function as a middleman and verify that the product received is what is advertised and is in good standing in their respective grading company archives. I will concede some ground here and say that since auction houses profit off of sales fees and buyer's premiums, that they do have some responsibility in the matter. This is just my opinion.
you're calling out a company who's 0.01% responsible when CGC is 99.99% responsible for authenticating them in the first place. This is what they "specialise" in
If i had these slabs I would just hold on to it because it will be rarer than actual cards..... its authenticated fake cards which bring out a new form of collectables lol. Also, if cgc go bankrupted from this these cards would rise even more... for being the cause of their demise. And there is a limited amount of them...
There could be some truth to this. Assuming the majority get destroyed, it's possible that these become collectible (not as cards) but as artifacts of Pokemon's biggest scandal. I'm skeptical that they would have much desirability to serious collectors though . . . more of a novelty trinket with a story.
This scandal could either serve as a cautionary tale of failure or become a pivotal moment that propels CGC to new heights. If they can acknowledge their missteps, implement rigorous safeguards, and reassure collectors that such an oversight will never happen again, CGC has a rare opportunity to rebuild trust and emerge as a stronger competitor in the grading industry. However, the revelation of printer metadata, which exposed the origins of the Playtest cards, raises serious concerns - not just for CGC but for the entire authentication process across grading companies. What if PSA or BGS had been at the center of this controversy instead? Their longstanding reputations and dominance in the market might have given them a greater ability to recover, or conversely, subjected them to even harsher scrutiny due to their established presence. Regardless, CGC now stands at a crossroads. How they respond to the failures exposed by printer metadata could determine whether they cement themselves as a premier grading company or fade into a cautionary lesson for the industry.
The novel you just wrote won’t change anything. How in the world does CGC ride this scandal to “new heights” unless you acknowledge that they’ve always been in the gutter
I actually agree with this. CGC could restore some faith by immediately working to physically review the cards and confirm the fraud and announcing a comprehensive and FULL refund process. If they did this, instead of keeping people waiting or forcing litigation, I think they will have earned some respect. Most companies wouldn't admit wrongdoing or prioritize customers in such matters. I'm skeptical that CGC will do this, but I hope they do . . .
I think alot of people were just waiting for a good reason to stop using their service. After they ruined their grading scale & the way they label slabs, i think people were already fed up. This incident just sealed the deal.
Overall, I haven't been impressed with CGC's decisions; however, I do think the competition and balance they offer are a net positive to the graded card market. Missed opportunities and self-inflicted wounds . . .
They will survive 100 percent even more so if they decide not to pay anyone back aswell.. yall are still gonna go through them when psa and beckett go slow, guaranteed!! They will be fine pokemon card collectors and smoothest brain peope on the planet the fact "printer meta data" is a new concept to the majority of yall is proof of this!
I had never heard of printer metadata before this, but I'm shocked this isn't common knowledge or standard procedure for grading cards . . . especially considering how long the high-end sports card market has been around.
as someone who doesn’t collect graded, i think a major grading company losing its value sounds like a dream come true. imagine all the dirt cheap slabs i could crack and put in set binders lol
Really doubt cgc cards will go down enough to make them “dirt cheap”. If so the amount of high value cards in cgc slabs is so high that people would just crack them and resubmit themselves. Also theres like a billion small grading companies out there, there nothing holding you back from just cracking those. Ur just dumb asf
be sure to authenticate it yourself "XD
Wouldn't the owners just crack the slabs themselves rather than selling them dirt cheap?
@@Rembranyou are exactly right lmao
Or just buy raw 😂
A lot of people don't know they also did this in Yugioh. They claimed to authenticate multiple magic and wizard test print cards that turned out to be fake. Only reason it didn't blow up as much is cause Yugioh isn't as strong as collecting hobby as Pokémon. When I saw that mess it made me very skeptical and stay away from these cards.
I still think their pristine 10 slab looks the best but they need to change a lot of things
What I'm not understanding is how in the hell do all these "elite hobbyists" believe "test" cards "that old" and that many.... MINT!!! I get maybe a set or 2 but this many was a red flag from the beginning but everyone saw them as a cash grab like everything else and to the market they went 🤔 WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT HOW MUCH CORRUPTION IS ACTUALLY IN THIS HOBBY NOW. Great job as always 👏
That was one of my concerns early on too. Also the overwhelming number of cards and different layouts seemed strange given the relatively short window for playtesting. I don't know . . . it's plausible extra sets were printed and never used, but strange that they would have been kept or protected, especially since there was no reason to believe they would ever be worth something.
All logic goes out the window when this amount of money is involved. It’s very easy to be ignorant to that facts when they stand to gain so much.
Honestly this is too many issues for CGC since they started trading cards. Need to go away/be shut down.
When it comes to the payout for these cards. Who is going to pay for this mistake?
Insurance? 1- I would think there is a clause in their contract, that states, they will NOT cards like this. Test/concept or cards. Sure they still could grade them but it wouldn’t mean they would be covered. If this is true, Matt has a lot of explaining to do.
2- Say they will cover cards like that. They will do their own investigation. Depending on what they find. Like if they find out they authenticated them solely on the word of one person, nothing more. From what understand there were multiple submissions. Did CGC call that one person for each individual submission? Either way I promise you they will look for a way not to pay.
CGC- Honestly I think CGC will not pay anything near the purchase price for this cards. The estimated loss people have been saying, is from 5-20 million. They don’t have that kind of money.
Now they want everyone to send their cards in, to examine. It’s actually, so they have the leverage. That they can low ball the buyer. It’s also possible they will try to deny a payout to the buyers that will not send theirs cards in, when told to.
Not matter what happens this will affect the hobby in so many different ways far a long time!
This is what I fear too . . . that cards will be used as leverage to undercompensate buyers. I'm hoping that's not the case and that CGC finds away to make buyers whole. Auction houses offering refunds is probably the best outcome. They have much more resources and influences to seek restitution from whomever is responsibility (after investigations have concluded).
The estimated loss is FAR higher then that number its not just ONE auction, the cards got bought then flipped on whatnot ebay secondary market.
I think tag will take over with their grading and the process. They literally give you a grading kit, detailed breakdown on why your card got the grade it got vs psa where you’ll never know why.
The grading kit only comes with a bulk submission of a minimum of 25+ cards, depending on the tier. But I agree with you that TAG may take over if grading companies don't step up. Even PSA may lose in the long run if they keep upcharging as well.
The upcharging incentivises grading cards at least slightly higher to charge more@@philycsteak
@@philycsteak PSA should've long gone out of business with how trash their labels look.
Thank goodness I never bought any CGC cards. I feel bad for people that graded with them. Whether you like it or not, the bad news is out and there will always be that stain on their record, meaning people will second guess buying CGC graded cards. The hardcore community will always be reasonable, but the casuals will hear about it and run, it is what it is.
Casual here:
I bought my first graded card a couple months ago, it happened to be from PSA. Now I want all in the same style, so anything else isn’t an option anyway
Robbin' D. Hood
Cgc takes on such stupid risk grading all the garbage they choose to. If they refund everyone who lost money they might be ok, but its so dumb.
Ya, not very wise from a risk mitigation perspective.
Awesome video as always.
Miss you PK!
qt
"There is probably a LITTLE BIT of validity to that criticism" - LOL!!! You sir are too kind :)
I try to be positive and avoid rushing to judgement . . . of course, I have my biases too.
@@pokemon_classics you were too generous to CGC!
I had to double check and make sure I wasn't the crazy one lol. Like 4th time I have heard "pokemon flying monster". PFM is Pokemon Flying Master haha
Nope, I realized I said "monster" while editing and thought about refilming. Instead, I just hoped no one would notice. Thanks for being the one to notice. Sorry Scott (PFM)!
@pokemon_classics haha 🤣
Fake cards and coins in graded slabs is nothing new, unfortunately for some items the information on such things is limited or lost so many grading companies make the same mistakes even PSA.
CGC got their money, and now they’re banking on the folks who got scammed either forgetting or not going to sue
I think there needs to be a bigger convo about these creatures employees because going out of his way - as a former creator of this game doing this to the community is batshit insane and kinda evil to me.
I personally won't ever purchase a cgc card from this point forward. I will also not be sending any cards to get graded. This is just me, but I'm sure there are others that feel the same. The company is in charge of literally valuing your cards. That trust is GONE
You would think that professional graders would have knowledge of such a simple process (been around for decades, so not much of a discovery) as part of their methodology to grade a card. CGC really blew it
Their comic book grading is full of scandals too, recently adding previously not available grades - I wouldn’t touch after watching their UA-cam channel too!
Sgc and psa have the same 4 billion dollar backer.
Cgcs is closer to 2 billion
Becketts is like 1 billion
So cgc and beckett have slightly less room for error, cgc will lawyer up that anybody who sends them back the prototype will get cooked they cant lose a 10s or 100s or millions dollars for the company.
Bye bye CGC. Loosing trust was the fundament of their business. Bye bye
Can't wait for the day grading (Pokemon) cards become obsolete
CGC = Can't Grade Cards. 😂😂😂
I'm just mad. I had a couple cards authenticated by them and now that might not mean anything
If the pokemon company themselves wont confirm authenticity on such lucrative cards with next to no info on, then they should be assumed as fake. They shouldnt grade a card without production data to validate its an official licensed product
I think there can be a balance. There are ways to determine a cards' legitimacy (beyond a reasonable doubt); however it must be done thoroughly and systematically. To be fair, I don't know what process or criteria CGC used, but it appears they relied to heavily on provenance without enough attention to physical attributes.
When PSA grade comics, CGC will see a massive hit on there services for sure.
I mean, is it not a thing that something to be that valuable is being rare? Like there are 2000+ tera umbreon PSA 10, and more in the making, but that New mew? That should actually worth the grading, like the whole thing is so distorted I dont see the point, specially on New sets
From day one we knew when CGC started doing pokemon it was shit.
Glad i didnt touch CG shit
CGC will be fine for the broader market.
But that’s as long as they don’t fumble their response too hard.
Everyone crying already, it’s too early, give it some time.
lawsuits incoming. All people effected should group up and file a lawsuit against CGC.
I bet MysticRips and PSA advocates are all loving this information
I am a PSA advocate; however, I think the competition CGC offers is necessary. PSA is far from perfect and having viable competitors like CGC in the market is the only way to ensure that prices, turnaround times, and customer service remain competitive. A PSA monopoly isn't good for anyone.
Obviously its cgc faulty for grading fake card and i think a refund should be issued but only the cost of the grade itself. The people who bought and sold Obviously fake cards thats on them.
You ended with this “is an opportunity” and “could be a huge PR win”. No. It was an opportunity and COULD HAVE BEEN a huge PR win but they passed on the opportunity and I’m never grading with them now nor will I purchase their product.
Reputation is everything when it comes to my “investing” in graded product. I want a grading company that I have confidence will stand the test of time. This company is dead to me.
That's fair . . . their window of opportunity to restore costumer trust has probably closed for many following their initial press release. However, I think it's reasonable for them to wait a few weeks to physically review the cards and confirm the fraud before announcing a comprehensive and FULL refund process. If they did this, instead of keeping people waiting or forcing litigation, I think they will have earned some respect. I'm skeptical that they will do this though . . . just my opinion.
every one wrong from time to time, its a matter of how you handle your mistakes.
Dont forget the 10,000 of thousands of FAKE 1ST Edition stamped vintage cards CGC graded. Competition is great unless a failure from tge begging like Cgc lol.
Wait, are you suggesting CGC has graded thousands of fake-stamp vintage cards? This is the first I've hear of this, can you refer me to a source of some kind (video, article, etc)?
@pokemon_classics I know it was really bad in the west coast, particularly Washington aera. Tons of Fossil, Team Rocket, and Varioius Neo sets, lots of common and uncommoncard's. I think rattle might of covered it briefly, however it happened about the same time his channel started, so I'm not sure. I do know there were
Cgc is done break those cgc slabs and get em to better grade co or hold on to em
it's funny to me because every youtuber says nothing good about psa BUT almost every youtuber will submit to them PSA is literally back logged right now drowning in money even with everyone talking bad about them. meanwhile cgc and becket have major issues going on
I like PSA, but I'm not going to pretend they are perfect. Problems of inconsistency, misgrades, turnaround times, and service levels are inevitable when grading. It's an imperfect system, but so is life. Overall, I've been content with PSA's service over my 15 years of grading Pokemon cards.
CGC's response is just awful,
Sites like eBay definitely have responsibility. Especially eBay since they check and guarantee authenticity. Your bias is showing a bit in your focus of the blame
The authenticity guarantee is to verify that the product is legitimate and matches what was advertised in the description/photos, not to reproduce or overturn research that's already been done by a professional grading company. Often, people would sell fake slabs, different cards, or send empty boxes to a buyer. In my opinion, eBay (and other sites) are there to function as a middleman and verify that the product received is what is advertised and is in good standing in their respective grading company archives. I will concede some ground here and say that since auction houses profit off of sales fees and buyer's premiums, that they do have some responsibility in the matter. This is just my opinion.
you're calling out a company who's 0.01% responsible when CGC is 99.99% responsible for authenticating them in the first place. This is what they "specialise" in
I collect cgc and I heard of this issue from a streamer I follow on whatnot
Shut up ad bot
Trust me bro
You make a compelling argument!
If i had these slabs I would just hold on to it because it will be rarer than actual cards..... its authenticated fake cards which bring out a new form of collectables lol. Also, if cgc go bankrupted from this these cards would rise even more... for being the cause of their demise. And there is a limited amount of them...
No. Get the thousands to millions of $$$ back at all costs. The fake CGC authenticated cards will never be worth what they sold for just last week.
Never going be worth what people paid for them
All i am saying is 20-30 years from now people will forget the origin of the story and its the MAGIC blastoise all over again.
There could be some truth to this. Assuming the majority get destroyed, it's possible that these become collectible (not as cards) but as artifacts of Pokemon's biggest scandal. I'm skeptical that they would have much desirability to serious collectors though . . . more of a novelty trinket with a story.
@@johnkim9086 you want to wait 30 years to get 10% of your 5 figure investment back, if you're lucky?
they gucci
Not even close. Cgc is done.
@@lurkinloooowry nah
This scandal could either serve as a cautionary tale of failure or become a pivotal moment that propels CGC to new heights. If they can acknowledge their missteps, implement rigorous safeguards, and reassure collectors that such an oversight will never happen again, CGC has a rare opportunity to rebuild trust and emerge as a stronger competitor in the grading industry.
However, the revelation of printer metadata, which exposed the origins of the Playtest cards, raises serious concerns - not just for CGC but for the entire authentication process across grading companies. What if PSA or BGS had been at the center of this controversy instead? Their longstanding reputations and dominance in the market might have given them a greater ability to recover, or conversely, subjected them to even harsher scrutiny due to their established presence.
Regardless, CGC now stands at a crossroads. How they respond to the failures exposed by printer metadata could determine whether they cement themselves as a premier grading company or fade into a cautionary lesson for the industry.
The novel you just wrote won’t change anything. How in the world does CGC ride this scandal to “new heights” unless you acknowledge that they’ve always been in the gutter
@hovat I love it! 😂😂😂 Yup I agree.
I actually agree with this. CGC could restore some faith by immediately working to physically review the cards and confirm the fraud and announcing a comprehensive and FULL refund process. If they did this, instead of keeping people waiting or forcing litigation, I think they will have earned some respect. Most companies wouldn't admit wrongdoing or prioritize customers in such matters. I'm skeptical that CGC will do this, but I hope they do . . .
I think alot of people were just waiting for a good reason to stop using their service. After they ruined their grading scale & the way they label slabs, i think people were already fed up. This incident just sealed the deal.
Overall, I haven't been impressed with CGC's decisions; however, I do think the competition and balance they offer are a net positive to the graded card market. Missed opportunities and self-inflicted wounds . . .
They will survive 100 percent even more so if they decide not to pay anyone back aswell.. yall are still gonna go through them when psa and beckett go slow, guaranteed!! They will be fine pokemon card collectors and smoothest brain peope on the planet the fact "printer meta data" is a new concept to the majority of yall is proof of this!
I had never heard of printer metadata before this, but I'm shocked this isn't common knowledge or standard procedure for grading cards . . . especially considering how long the high-end sports card market has been around.