Thank you so much for these of Pod Casts! They add so much depth and texture to this story! I look forward to these discussions as much as the show itself! You all are doing such an amazing job. It’s been an honor just to listen in on these stories. And it’s so important, now more than ever, that we remember what patriotism, loyalty and honor really look like. These people weren’t super heroes. They simply understood the importance of common goals and common enemies. They were the greatest generation because they understood the importance of good over evil. Freedom versus fascism. Sacrifice over self. All themes we have lost touch with.
Pretty sure some where in the comments there is a movie specifically for The Red Tails… actually it is called “Double Victory: The Tuskegee Airmen at War” I believe it was by Roscoe Brown Jr… I hope people remember this Series is about the 100th Bomber Wing not D-Day or the Tuskegee’s. Tuskegee has relationship with the 100th because of being in a POW camp only. Please correct me if I am wrong.
As much as I love this series, I feel the producers did a disservice to the actors, the characters, and the entire subject by introducing the Tuskegee Airmen so late in the show. How hard could it have been to show scenes of them in the first couple of episodes? The viewer doesn't have much invested in the characters at this point.
I just posted and came to a similar conclusion about the production team. Yes I agree that at some point some major bad decisions were made and left us with a good series, but so much more disappointing than it should have been with the source material and actual history
You make good points but remember this series is based on a book which largely does not cover the contributions of the Red Tails. I think they were layered into the story well and I immediately got invested in them. That said, I’d love to see the Tuskegee Airmen get their own series! Or the Red ball express or the 761st tank battalion. It’s all good and it’s all important!
@03scottwarren Thanks for the reminder. Yes it does take the story from the book, so maybe I'm a bit harsh. But since I never read the book, I only judge based on this version of the story, and when it's presented in this way, it looks like a lot is missing. I didn't read any of the source material for BOB and Pacific either, but when I watched the TV versions of those stories, it seemed to work great. I'm still loving MOTA, there is still so many great things from this show, especially the music and seeing some amazing actors I've never seen before.
I agree with your comment. What was their contribution to the story. NOTHING..THAT WAS.A.SHAME. NOT A.SINGLE DOGFIGHT WITH THE FW109 ALSO. A.MISS OPORTUNITY
My question is what did they have to do with the story of the 100th bombers and the men in it like Bucky Egan? Don't think they even knew each other in prison camp and is something they made up for the requirement to have X amount of black actors in it no matter the subject matter. Nothing against the Tuskegee airmen, but they seemed out of context since it was a totally different unit than the 100th bombers which is what it's about.
Jesus Christ so much got left on the table in the cutting room between episodes 7 and 8. Plot buildup either goes nowhere or is skipped over entirely. The whole resistance helping downed airmen suspense buildup is dissolved for no reason, P-51 gets like 40 seconds of screen time and isn't really shown in combat escorting the b-17s even though they say that's what they are doing, they talk about using b-17s as bait before the invasion but never go into it, d-day is hardly covered, Crosbys affair turns out to be irrelevant and all of the camp scenes could be wrapped up into a 5 minute thing.
The thing is I don't think any of the main characters of the 8th Like Buck Cleagen ever met any of the Tuskegee men in the show in real life which means that part was all made up, and really had no context to the real story of the 100th bomb group. Were any of the Tuskegee men in the show even mentioned in the book?
What happened to this series. Started off so strong with the first few episodes. Great story and air combat scenes. Now I’m not sure what the point is. Too many unfinished plot lines. New characters who weren’t even introduced until now. D-Day was a footnote. I’m pretty disappointed with the second 1/2 of the season. More AIR COMBAT and less non-relevant side content. The Tuskegee characters should have been introduced a few episodes back so we’d care about them more when they get shot down. We needed some Bombing scenes where the Red Tails save the day and show some great Dog-Fighting scenes. Sad that this show hasn’t lived up to the expectations after Band of Brothers & The Pacific
Yes! Show us a whole successful mission and experience what the Tuskegee airmen saw. Show the victory, but also the racism even after they proved their skill. Do this BEFORE they just tell us with exposition all their frustrations, desires, achievements, etc. And the only actual mission we see, ends with apparently all of them dying or getting captured. That's it, thats all we get of their solo part of the story. Once again, anticipation built up, then a sudden conclusion and quick jump to the next storyline.
I personally am loving what they are showing us, but every episode after the 3rd has left me feeling let down over the amount of stuff they skip over and just having people talk about events without showing us. It's a good thing that I am loving it so much that I want more, but with one episode left, I feel I'm going to end up disappointed in the way AppleTV decided to put together the series. 9 episodes may have worked if they cut out certain storylines and expanded more on the strongest characters and events in the war. But the way they built up the "main" characters in the first couple episodes, plus adding many new characters later in the season, plus storylines that are given large parts of episodes to build up (and then concluded suddenly, with the narrator just telling us, or are never mentioned again once the episode ends) makes me believe this should have been at least 1.5 hour episodes EACH, or had a 15 episode season. Imagine a whole episode of our downed airmen sneaking through France, with a suspenseful and emotional conclusion of the epidode with the two airmen making it into Spain, relieved, but in shock at experiencing a part of the war they never could have prepared for with the French people under German occupation. Then, obviously, D-day, the Tuskegee airmen, Buck and Bucky perhaps taking at least ONE MINUTE in the camp discussing their worries that perhaps Lt. Biddick did end up KIA now that there is no sign of him at this prison camp. All this, plus much more they cut short or never mention after one or two episodes, just makes this feel less special than BOB and the Pacific. In those series, when there were terrible events going on, we spent a lot more time going through it, seeing the gradual breakdown of moral, and then really feeling relief once that particular battle, or character growth story concluded. So, in the end, a fun series, great action, and great heroes to watch, but the production team and top-level decision makers really dropped the ball on this one.
Also, imagine if in Band of Brothers, at the end of ep. 5 "Crossroads", we had the same buildup of Lt. Dike joining Easy, the interruption at the theater due to the sudden German attack, seeing the shivering soldiers trying to collect weapons, and ending the episode walking into Bastogne to be surrounded from all sides. Then, next episode: we only show 10 min of the whole battle of the bulge, because we are also jumping around to two other storylines in the episode, and we end the episode with two medics in England hearing news on the BBC that the 101st airborne was "rescued" by Patton. Next episode: we rejoin Easy company walking into Hagenau, and we are now following new characters taking to eachother about how crazy the stories are about Bastogne. 😂 I'm blabbering a lot. This 8th episode of MOTA really disappointed me 😅
@@luis_g_77 Almost the whole serie disappointed me... If you look at the CGI in Band of Brothers ep2, opening scene, with C-47, Flak, tracers and parachutes, You can see that that CGI was far better.. And It was used in 2001....
Unfortunately, this series has turned into a serious disappointment, and that comes from someone who has been tracking it’s development from the beginning with high hopes and expectations, considering the money and time that was invested in the production. Episode 8 finally destroyed any hope it could be salvaged. For the past seven episodes I was hoping the character development would come together and I would become emotionally invested in the story. Introducing the Tuskegee airmen from the 15th Air Force into a story that has already skipped so much history regarding the 8th Air Force bombing campaign was the last nail in the coffin. Remember, at some point in development this series was being called ‘The Mighty Eighth.’ Though the Tuskegee airmen deserve every tribute that can be afforded them, this was not the right forum. They deserve their own series, or perhaps a biographical tribute to General Benjamin O. Davis, but there was too much history of the 8th Air Force to cover to try to do it in this series. Instead we have ended up with a series of unfinished short stories regarding different characters and events that could have each been a story by themselves.
Thank you so much for these of Pod Casts! They add so much depth and texture to this story! I look forward to these discussions as much as the show itself! You all are doing such an amazing job. It’s been an honor just to listen in on these stories. And it’s so important, now more than ever, that we remember what patriotism, loyalty and honor really look like. These people weren’t super heroes. They simply understood the importance of common goals and common enemies. They were the greatest generation because they understood the importance of good over evil. Freedom versus fascism. Sacrifice over self. All themes we have lost touch with.
Would love a Red Tails series.
I was thinking the same thing.
Pretty sure some where in the comments there is a movie specifically for The Red Tails… actually it is called “Double Victory: The Tuskegee Airmen at War” I believe it was by Roscoe Brown Jr… I hope people remember this Series is about the 100th Bomber Wing not D-Day or the Tuskegee’s. Tuskegee has relationship with the 100th because of being in a POW camp only. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Great podcast. Learned so much from everyone in this episode.!
Powerful podcast!
So, 2.5 years in 8 episodes, then 1 year in one episode?
As much as I love this series, I feel the producers did a disservice to the actors, the characters, and the entire subject by introducing the Tuskegee Airmen so late in the show. How hard could it have been to show scenes of them in the first couple of episodes? The viewer doesn't have much invested in the characters at this point.
I just posted and came to a similar conclusion about the production team. Yes I agree that at some point some major bad decisions were made and left us with a good series, but so much more disappointing than it should have been with the source material and actual history
You make good points but remember this series is based on a book which largely does not cover the contributions of the Red Tails. I think they were layered into the story well and I immediately got invested in them. That said, I’d love to see the Tuskegee Airmen get their own series! Or the Red ball express or the 761st tank battalion. It’s all good and it’s all important!
@03scottwarren Thanks for the reminder. Yes it does take the story from the book, so maybe I'm a bit harsh. But since I never read the book, I only judge based on this version of the story, and when it's presented in this way, it looks like a lot is missing. I didn't read any of the source material for BOB and Pacific either, but when I watched the TV versions of those stories, it seemed to work great. I'm still loving MOTA, there is still so many great things from this show, especially the music and seeing some amazing actors I've never seen before.
I agree with your comment. What was their contribution to the story. NOTHING..THAT WAS.A.SHAME. NOT A.SINGLE DOGFIGHT WITH THE FW109 ALSO. A.MISS OPORTUNITY
My question is what did they have to do with the story of the 100th bombers and the men in it like Bucky Egan? Don't think they even knew each other in prison camp and is something they made up for the requirement to have X amount of black actors in it no matter the subject matter. Nothing against the Tuskegee airmen, but they seemed out of context since it was a totally different unit than the 100th bombers which is what it's about.
Jesus Christ so much got left on the table in the cutting room between episodes 7 and 8. Plot buildup either goes nowhere or is skipped over entirely. The whole resistance helping downed airmen suspense buildup is dissolved for no reason, P-51 gets like 40 seconds of screen time and isn't really shown in combat escorting the b-17s even though they say that's what they are doing, they talk about using b-17s as bait before the invasion but never go into it, d-day is hardly covered, Crosbys affair turns out to be irrelevant and all of the camp scenes could be wrapped up into a 5 minute thing.
It's a failed tv serie...
I've been waiting for this for 10 years, but I'm disgusted...
Totally, and they had great actors! What a waste.
Welcome back everybody!
The thing is I don't think any of the main characters of the 8th Like Buck Cleagen ever met any of the Tuskegee men in the show in real life which means that part was all made up, and really had no context to the real story of the 100th bomb group. Were any of the Tuskegee men in the show even mentioned in the book?
What happened to this series. Started off so strong with the first few episodes. Great story and air combat scenes. Now I’m not sure what the point is. Too many unfinished plot lines. New characters who weren’t even introduced until now. D-Day was a footnote. I’m pretty disappointed with the second 1/2 of the season. More AIR COMBAT and less non-relevant side content. The Tuskegee characters should have been introduced a few episodes back so we’d care about them more when they get shot down. We needed some Bombing scenes where the Red Tails save the day and show some great Dog-Fighting scenes. Sad that this show hasn’t lived up to the expectations after Band of Brothers & The Pacific
Yes! Show us a whole successful mission and experience what the Tuskegee airmen saw. Show the victory, but also the racism even after they proved their skill. Do this BEFORE they just tell us with exposition all their frustrations, desires, achievements, etc. And the only actual mission we see, ends with apparently all of them dying or getting captured. That's it, thats all we get of their solo part of the story. Once again, anticipation built up, then a sudden conclusion and quick jump to the next storyline.
Agree at 100%
The fighters were sent to attack France radars in a likely one way flight because if they were not shut down then they would be likely out of fuel.
I personally am loving what they are showing us, but every episode after the 3rd has left me feeling let down over the amount of stuff they skip over and just having people talk about events without showing us.
It's a good thing that I am loving it so much that I want more, but with one episode left, I feel I'm going to end up disappointed in the way AppleTV decided to put together the series. 9 episodes may have worked if they cut out certain storylines and expanded more on the strongest characters and events in the war. But the way they built up the "main" characters in the first couple episodes, plus adding many new characters later in the season, plus storylines that are given large parts of episodes to build up (and then concluded suddenly, with the narrator just telling us, or are never mentioned again once the episode ends) makes me believe this should have been at least 1.5 hour episodes EACH, or had a 15 episode season.
Imagine a whole episode of our downed airmen sneaking through France, with a suspenseful and emotional conclusion of the epidode with the two airmen making it into Spain, relieved, but in shock at experiencing a part of the war they never could have prepared for with the French people under German occupation.
Then, obviously, D-day, the Tuskegee airmen, Buck and Bucky perhaps taking at least ONE MINUTE in the camp discussing their worries that perhaps Lt. Biddick did end up KIA now that there is no sign of him at this prison camp. All this, plus much more they cut short or never mention after one or two episodes, just makes this feel less special than BOB and the Pacific. In those series, when there were terrible events going on, we spent a lot more time going through it, seeing the gradual breakdown of moral, and then really feeling relief once that particular battle, or character growth story concluded.
So, in the end, a fun series, great action, and great heroes to watch, but the production team and top-level decision makers really dropped the ball on this one.
Also, imagine if in Band of Brothers, at the end of ep. 5 "Crossroads", we had the same buildup of Lt. Dike joining Easy, the interruption at the theater due to the sudden German attack, seeing the shivering soldiers trying to collect weapons, and ending the episode walking into Bastogne to be surrounded from all sides.
Then, next episode: we only show 10 min of the whole battle of the bulge, because we are also jumping around to two other storylines in the episode, and we end the episode with two medics in England hearing news on the BBC that the 101st airborne was "rescued" by Patton.
Next episode: we rejoin Easy company walking into Hagenau, and we are now following new characters taking to eachother about how crazy the stories are about Bastogne.
😂 I'm blabbering a lot. This 8th episode of MOTA really disappointed me 😅
@@luis_g_77
Almost the whole serie disappointed me...
If you look at the CGI in Band of Brothers ep2, opening scene, with C-47, Flak, tracers and parachutes, You can see that that CGI was far better.. And It was used in 2001....
Wow, almost disgusting the way they change the rules and made them bait for the german luftwaffe. Very interesting.
Unfortunately, this series has turned into a serious disappointment, and that comes from someone who has been tracking it’s development from the beginning with high hopes and expectations, considering the money and time that was invested in the production. Episode 8 finally destroyed any hope it could be salvaged. For the past seven episodes I was hoping the character development would come together and I would become emotionally invested in the story. Introducing the Tuskegee airmen from the 15th Air Force into a story that has already skipped so much history regarding the 8th Air Force bombing campaign was the last nail in the coffin. Remember, at some point in development this series was being called ‘The Mighty Eighth.’ Though the Tuskegee airmen deserve every tribute that can be afforded them, this was not the right forum. They deserve their own series, or perhaps a biographical tribute to General Benjamin O. Davis, but there was too much history of the 8th Air Force to cover to try to do it in this series. Instead we have ended up with a series of unfinished short stories regarding different characters and events that could have each been a story by themselves.
It really is a mess. The veterans of the 8th deserve better.
Its Hollywood. Boxes had to be checked.