Mistake or not, very dishonest by Bristol. Completely unnecessary at the end, to delay the game and I suspect that the RFU will dish out some punishments.
This was a pretty poor way to end this match and I have alot of sympathy for the referee who was put in a very difficult position by both Pat Lam and Steve Borthwick. I have always admired Pat Lam for being not just a great rugby player but also a good and honest man. However, his explanation here about his Team Manager inadverdently putting the Afoa substitution down to " tactical "rather than " injured " and he wasn't aware of that is a little difficult to believe. However, I think emotion got the better of Steve Borthwick at the end. If he had stood back from the chaos on the touchline and made a decision to accept Lams expanation, then a second Bristol player would have had to have gone off leaving them with 13 blokes. Leicester could then have taken an uncontested scrum and probably been able to exploit the lack of bodies in defence for Bristol. Even to say now I know, from an armchair and when the anger has cooled and your mind is thinking straight . There will probably now be a very interesting RFU inquiry about those last 6 / 7 minutes. To lighten the mood, I admired Wiggie taking on Afoa and Genge v Hughes could have been tasty if they had been allowed to get on with it a bit before everybody charged in !
A couple of things. Wigglesworth taking down Afoa? Wiggy will talk about that forever and Afoa won’t. Secondly, Leicester fans complaining about feeding or etiquette at a scrum? Two words. Neil Back. Overall though both teams had proper fire in the belly but English rugby needs a strong Leicester ahead of a mail order flash in the pan. Good game well done to both sides.
English rugby need Leicester as much as it needs all the RFU blazers, not at all. Leicester supporters love Leicester and that is fair enough, but most English rugby supporters want faster, better rugby and not the tiresome 8 man forwards only rugby Leicester play and the RFU blazers love. Rugby is a spectator sport and 90% of people would rather watch Bristol any day of the week.
Well, as an English rugby supporter and player I’d agree we want running backs and fast slick skills. But in addition to the muddy spectacle of a wintery night with two teams in a tense scrum battle (again, as long as there is some champagne with the backs) is also heart warming. Allowing the Southern Hemisphere to dictate the received wisdom as to what is “Good” rugby betrays the point and origin of the game. For all people of all sizes. In all weathers. Or maybe watch RL? England have a history of strong hard forwards that is part of the national rugby DNA. As for the blazers bit ... are you Will Carling? We’ve got 54 problems but a blazer ain’t one ...
@@MR-tb4po The weather does affect the match, but frame of mind affects it far more, how many times have the likes of Leicester and Bath signed amazing backs and then had the cunning plan of never giving them the ball? It was sunny today and strangely enough there appeared to be a scrum or two, how very odd? That tiresome weather argument holds no water at all it is simply to hold rugby back for the sake of holding it back, you would not happen to be an RFU member by any chance?
@@Porkchop259 Ha ha no. Are you a member of the NZRFU? My point is about pride in the whole game rather than the element that gets the most press and is allegedly sexiest. As I say, the mud spattered fifth reset scrum five metres out that holds the crowd in hushed awe is as important as the scything winger or the metronomic kick chase ... rugby isn’t being “held back” lol you need to watch and love the game for what it is not want to change it because you’re impatient, it doesn’t suit you or you expect perfection. That would make you a Saracen.
No they didn’t 🤣 Lam admitted he was injured, team manager said it was tactical so he came back on. Borthwick even wanted Afoa to go back on so what’s the issue
@@giovannidispirito9056 No Lam said to the ref he was injured so couldn't go back on , then he realised they would have an uncontested scrum on their 5m line plus they would be down to 13 players , 8 in the scrum and only 5 backs he then changed his mind and said afoa went of for tactical reasons , and they saved the game
@@sage6336 yeah lam said he was injured but borthwick wanted him to go back on. Afoa who was “injured” came back on and stuffed tigers. At the end of the day they played what was in front of them and tigers bottled it. Simple as really 🤷♀️
@@onskyk As a Sale supporter, neutral is a bit boring. However, anyone with the opinion of disliking Bristol is on par with myself. Not a fan of Pat Lam at all.
Charlie Moss 1 second ago Let's just break this down: Tigers wanted a scrum, Pat is consistent that he doesn’t want Afoa to return to the field of play, Temp clarifies to Pat he will have to go down to 13, Pat replies "fine" and goes to remove Sheedy. Afoa then walks on - which he is entitled to do. Tigers get the scrum they wanted and don't secure the ball - they had amble chances to score and didn’t capitalise on them - why not take the line out! I agree the Tempo was poor in the last half and some of his decisions to Tigers were odd, but so was not checking those very up-right tackles on Bristol (The same kind Thorley received a red for). The laws do need reviewing, but one thing is certain, rugby is richer because of Pat Lam.
@@soddof7972 penalty tries aren’t given for repeat offences, only when a clear and obvious try scoring opportunity is stopped by an infringement, which never happened
No one mentioning the early push or scrum half taking the ball out of the scrum. Probably not allowed to be reviewed by TMO but touch judge clearly bottled making a call on a split second action.
Rule 36. A. A scrum ends when the ball comes out in any direction except the tunnel. The scrum wheeled and the ball ended up outside the number 8's feet. Top poaching.
@@bondvillansarebest the ball wasn't out. The no.8 was controlling it when it was picked up. If you play in forwards especially no.8 you'd know the ball was not out. It was very fast so can't blame lino but it's clear.
@@acman453 no it was out. The ball came out the flanker sideways and therefore was out so Randall was able to pick it and kick it out. It was a good 1/2 metre out so not a close call at all
@@acman453 If you watch in slow motion, the ball comes out through the nearside flankers feet as the scrum wheels. The number 8 then attempts to step across to control it. I agree that the nearside touch judge must have been VERY alert to notice as he's the person who signals to the referee that it was a fair poach (ref Mic picks catches him saying he checked with the touch judge.
First, Pat Lam tries to say Afoa is injured. Then when the referee says they will have to go down to 13 players, Afoa is suddenly not injured. Then while the scrum is in progress, Andy Uren takes the ball out of the scrum and kicks the ball out and the ref says game over. Leicester were robbed. This situation doesn't give Bristol a good look.
Wrong. Lam states Afoa is injured (4:15), the ref tells him that Bristol must go down to 13 men, Lam then goes to take of Sheedy (4:20) and is happy to do so. Then, the ref asks a member of the coaching staff if Afoa is injured, to which that member says no (4:45). When this coaching member says that Afoa is not injured, Lam says "no no no", but at this point the ref has taken the answer of the coaching member
On the 75th odd minute mark the ref also warns the bears that the next penalty will give away a yellow then goes and gives two back to back scrum penalties without booking anyone.. shocking officiating in the last 10-15 of the match
Ridiculous from Pat Lam. I’ve lost all respect for him. He knew what he was doing and it was pure cheating. His explanation is pathetic to. He knew that it wasn’t an injury sub. It doesn’t take a genius to work out. Ofoa wasn’t injured. This has to be dealt with with a deduction of points suspension of Pat Lam or something.
I might have genuinely been a misunderstanding and even if not he is still part of the team and cheating is going on constantly on the pitch and off (e.g Richie mccaw)
Yeah its a stramge one because in rugby if you can cheat on the pitch and get away with it then you are hailed as brilliant. Something didnt quite feel right about this. Very France v Wales esq, however it is what it is and the Leicester pack have to take that at the end of the day.
Afoa had just come back from injury so it was fair, he came off fairly early. And the decision was eventually made that it was a tactical sub so why are you complaining?
Leicester smashing the Bristol scrum until they get a 5 minute breather and an apparently injured prop who's had half the game to rest back on. Pat Lam ought to be ashamed of himself and Bristol fans should be embarrassed.
I'm confused, Pat Lam seemed to indicate that the guy was injured so they wouldn't replace him, but Botherwick seemed to suggest that it was a tactical subsitution and complained - so they brought him back on because Botherwick and the ref said he should? Surely it's not really Lam's fault then is it? (Sorry if I' misunderstanding, didn't see the whole game but that was my take-away from it?)
to be fair, I saw this live on TV it was a cracking game! Leicester have rediscovered their pack vigour, and Bristol showed us the buccaneering spirit behind their scintillating breakaways. But it all went horribly wrong in the final minutes just when reaching its climax. Can't help feeling the irony with the Tigers this time the victims of the type of muscular gamesmanship they used to flout themselves. Just ask any Munster fan.
I wouldn't say they cheated, they made a serious error, which Afoa would have suffered for if he was actually injured. The ref, after talking to the two coach, should have insisted Bristol removed a players as per the injured player regulation. If Bristol would do it, he yellow cards the Bristol captain and restarts with a Leicester uncontested scrum.
it wasnt leicesters DoR who magicly healed afoa, it was leicester is DoR who wanted a decision to be made and to get in with it. pat lam decided to cheat and change his mind after he heard he would have to go down to 13 men. clear and obvious cheating, he needs to be punished
Leicester should have had this game wrapped up, butchered a couple of nailed-on scoring opportunities. We'll be top 4 and challenging for the title again within a couple of seasons though,.
a lot of butthurt going on here.. at the end of the day, tigers pack should of pushed them over again. the ball spilled out, thats the risk you take. borthwick was mouthing off that afoa should be going on and then when bristol put him on, he was mouthing off that Afoa was injured. deal with the outcome even if it doesn't go your way.
It looked very like Lam lied about Afoa to get uncontested scrums then changed his mind when told he would have to sacrifice a back line player. Borthwicks frustration was understandable
Yes borthwick lost his shit which was of no help whatsoever in the circumstances. It appears afoa was injured pre game and only played the first 40 to avoid aggravating it so I can see why Lam said he was injured whilst the substitution was labelled as tactical
@@almcdonald8676 I agree. Borthwick had an option of uncontested scrum against 13 players, 8 of whom HAD to be in the scrum. If you can't manage a two man overlap under those circumstances then you should be playing professional rugby.
The booing was justified, the ref did nothing wrong, Pat Lam screwed up big time. It was a tactical sub, afoa should have come straight on and then people would have been ok. Mistake or not it was shameful what Bristol did. Not to mention that the scrum half was a little offside at the end.
@@silentfrog completely agree with you, I couldn't see Wayne Barnes flip flopping like that but Refs are human. Will just make the next meeting a tasty one.
Yeah I agree with that on the basis of player welfare. If it’s undecided if your players injured then let’s avoid testing resolving the uncertainty with a career ending exacerbation of a minor niggle
Coming back to this a year later and genuinely bemused as to why it caused so much outrage. All this talk of cheating from the Bristol side - but in reality Afoa going back on was probably the worse of the two options for Leicester. Lam didn't seem to want him on and accepted the fact that it would mean uncontested scrums and another player off the pitch - Leicester would surely score when they're guaranteed to get the ball from the scrum and have a 3 on 1 on the wing. I think all the sentiment must come from hindsight. In hindsight, Afoa coming back on meant Leicester lost and maybe they would have won if he didn't. But it seems like Lam's reluctance to bring Afoa on aligns with the ideal Leicester view? I've not lost any respect for the man over it, didn't now and haven't still. DoR putting player safety first and seems like lam was happy to essentially concede the game rather than risk a player injured and risk the season.
@@fukawitribe Pat Lam and John Afoa, saying he was injured until they learned that this was the less efficacious option of “rule manipulation,” ie cheating.
Love reading the comments, Bristol never cheated, best team won on the day, so stop wining like a bunch of little school girls and let's get ready for the last game of the season next week and also home semi secured up the bears 🐻🐻🐻
I'm afraid that Bristol should have their points for this game deducted. They blatantly lied to delay the restart to give their players chance to recover.
Injured prior the game. Started as our alternate option was Chaparro playing tighthead.. if Chaparro got injured straight away, would mean Afoa playing remainder of game which wouldnt be great with an existing injury. So played 40, Lam took him off as an injury, then team manager wrote it as tactical.... complete admin error on Bristol's part, but it doesnt make them cheaters. When Chaparro got the yellow this all flared up on touch-line. You can see Afoa saying 'f, this' and runs back on.. nothing Lam can really do as it was the players decision... Agree though, if anything, it's a testament to how much of a monster Afoa is.. he must had been as stiff as a board before that last scrum!
Afoa had 40 minutes to rest and recover against genge who had played 80 minutes of rugby and just spent himself in 10 minutes of scrums. Quite frankly if the fresh legs of afoa hadn't beaten rhe spent legs of genge thrn he wouod like one hell of a tit and wouldn't be worthy of being a professional player.
@@christopheroflynn5217 all the more reason not to make a fuss about bringing on Afoa. I also don’t understand why Leicester complained about Afoa not coming on. 7 on 5 in the backs 5 metres from the try line should be a walkover
@@Rhys78686 I believe it's down to the timing. Leicester are dominating the scrum so if afoa jumps straight on to the pitch, considering how tired the rest of the Bristol pack are then he shouldn't make too big of an impact. However in the 8 minutes it takes to sort things out, the Bristol pack will no longer be as tired and can put on a good fight against the Leicester scrum ESPECIALLY with fresh legs. I honestly think nobody would of complained if afoa had come straight on after the yellow, but as things were taking so long it makes sense as to why Borthwick would become frustrated and argue he shouldn't go on.
@@christopheroflynn5217 think you're missing the point and subject of my response. Was about the reluctancy of Lam wanting Afoa on.... becuase of a pre-exisiting injury. He already played 40minutes against Genge, which you can see in the highlights. "one hell of a tit and wouldn't be worthy of being a professional player" - I'm sure the former All Black and professional rugby player of 20 years would value that comment from you.
I think Lam just didn't understand the laws by going down to 13 with uncontested scrums. And neither did Borthwick to be fair. Considering how professional the sport is, their lack of knowledge is surprising.
The officiating in this game was nothing short of shambolic. The number of stone wall decisions that were incorrect ruined the flow of the game. Would like to say I feel sorry for Leicester but I don't really because they have a team full of knobheads
Poor sportsmanship at the end from Afoa bumping Wigglesworth - deserved a slap
Just a little love tap nothing to cry about
Loved the way he threw him down though, serves him right!
Yes but who put who down tho
Prop downed by scrum half 😀😀😀😀
Go Wiggie
@@phoenixfridge1495 every rugby players built these days Wiggie could play anywhere
@@jamiewest1489 Celebrating a win in the face of an opposition player is shi*e form. Bad example.
Mistake or not, very dishonest by Bristol. Completely unnecessary at the end, to delay the game and I suspect that the RFU will dish out some punishments.
Well, that's new. Bristol changing their decision literally seconds after they said the player was injured was a bit unsportsmanlike, IMO.
Never a boring game with Bristol
That ending 😂😂
Wigglesworth taking Afoa down😂😂. Best moment of the game
Pretty embarrasing from Afoa at the end.
Yup for a guy that's played the game that long you think he would have matured a bit.
Well done Wiggie! You get in there
Shocking
This was a pretty poor way to end this match and I have alot of sympathy for the referee who was put in a very difficult position by both Pat Lam and Steve Borthwick. I have always admired Pat Lam for being not just a great rugby player but also a good and honest man. However, his explanation here about his Team Manager inadverdently putting the Afoa substitution down to " tactical "rather than " injured " and he wasn't aware of that is a little difficult to believe. However, I think emotion got the better of Steve Borthwick at the end. If he had stood back from the chaos on the touchline and made a decision to accept Lams expanation, then a second Bristol player would have had to have gone off leaving them with 13 blokes. Leicester could then have taken an uncontested scrum and probably been able to exploit the lack of bodies in defence for Bristol. Even to say now I know, from an armchair and when the anger has cooled and your mind is thinking straight . There will probably now be a very interesting RFU inquiry about those last 6 / 7 minutes. To lighten the mood, I admired Wiggie taking on Afoa and Genge v Hughes could have been tasty if they had been allowed to get on with it a bit before everybody charged in !
A couple of things. Wigglesworth taking down Afoa? Wiggy will talk about that forever and Afoa won’t. Secondly, Leicester fans complaining about feeding or etiquette at a scrum? Two words. Neil Back. Overall though both teams had proper fire in the belly but English rugby needs a strong Leicester ahead of a mail order flash in the pan. Good game well done to both sides.
English rugby need Leicester as much as it needs all the RFU blazers, not at all. Leicester supporters love Leicester and that is fair enough, but most English rugby supporters want faster, better rugby and not the tiresome 8 man forwards only rugby Leicester play and the RFU blazers love. Rugby is a spectator sport and 90% of people would rather watch Bristol any day of the week.
Well, as an English rugby supporter and player I’d agree we want running backs and fast slick skills. But in addition to the muddy spectacle of a wintery night with two teams in a tense scrum battle (again, as long as there is some champagne with the backs) is also heart warming. Allowing the Southern Hemisphere to dictate the received wisdom as to what is “Good” rugby betrays the point and origin of the game. For all people of all sizes. In all weathers. Or maybe watch RL? England have a history of strong hard forwards that is part of the national rugby DNA. As for the blazers bit ... are you Will Carling? We’ve got 54 problems but a blazer ain’t one ...
@@MR-tb4po The weather does affect the match, but frame of mind affects it far more, how many times have the likes of Leicester and Bath signed amazing backs and then had the cunning plan of never giving them the ball?
It was sunny today and strangely enough there appeared to be a scrum or two, how very odd? That tiresome weather argument holds no water at all it is simply to hold rugby back for the sake of holding it back, you would not happen to be an RFU member by any chance?
@@Porkchop259 Ha ha no. Are you a member of the NZRFU? My point is about pride in the whole game rather than the element that gets the most press and is allegedly sexiest. As I say, the mud spattered fifth reset scrum five metres out that holds the crowd in hushed awe is as important as the scything winger or the metronomic kick chase ... rugby isn’t being “held back” lol you need to watch and love the game for what it is not want to change it because you’re impatient, it doesn’t suit you or you expect perfection. That would make you a Saracen.
Bristol cheated I hope Exeter absolutely pole axe them in the final
No they didn’t 🤣 Lam admitted he was injured, team manager said it was tactical so he came back on. Borthwick even wanted Afoa to go back on so what’s the issue
@@giovannidispirito9056 No Lam said to the ref he was injured so couldn't go back on , then he realised they would have an uncontested scrum on their 5m line plus they would be down to 13 players , 8 in the scrum and only 5 backs he then changed his mind and said afoa went of for tactical reasons , and they saved the game
@@sage6336 and then the ‘injured’ Afoa came on and rinsed the Tigers scrum 😅😅😅
@@sage6336 not cheating, then.
The player wasn't injured, and he went back on.
Actually quite nice to see some dark arts still in the game.
@@sage6336 yeah lam said he was injured but borthwick wanted him to go back on. Afoa who was “injured” came back on and stuffed tigers. At the end of the day they played what was in front of them and tigers bottled it.
Simple as really 🤷♀️
As a neutral this has given me a dislike towards Bristol now. I hope it gets investigated etc...
As a Bears supporter we don't really care about the opinions of a neutral.
@@onskyk sounds like even more reason to dislike them then.
@@onskyk As a Sale supporter, neutral is a bit boring. However, anyone with the opinion of disliking Bristol is on par with myself. Not a fan of Pat Lam at all.
Lam's threat towards the ref "if he (Afoa) gets injured it's your responsibility" was totally out of line.
@@onskyk it’s okay, we all know that you’re ashamed of your club, but to try and save face you pretend otherwise. Absolutely appalling
Charlie Moss
1 second ago
Let's just break this down: Tigers wanted a scrum, Pat is consistent that he doesn’t want Afoa to return to the field of play, Temp clarifies to Pat he will have to go down to 13, Pat replies "fine" and goes to remove Sheedy. Afoa then walks on - which he is entitled to do. Tigers get the scrum they wanted and don't secure the ball - they had amble chances to score and didn’t capitalise on them - why not take the line out! I agree the Tempo was poor in the last half and some of his decisions to Tigers were odd, but so was not checking those very up-right tackles on Bristol (The same kind Thorley received a red for). The laws do need reviewing, but one thing is certain, rugby is richer because of Pat Lam.
5 penalties in a scrum 5 should never happen ref should have gone for the penalty try but he bottled it.
@@soddof7972 Tempo wasn’t great I’ll give you that.
@@soddof7972 penalty tries aren’t given for repeat offences, only when a clear and obvious try scoring opportunity is stopped by an infringement, which never happened
No one mentioning the early push or scrum half taking the ball out of the scrum. Probably not allowed to be reviewed by TMO but touch judge clearly bottled making a call on a split second action.
Rule 36. A. A scrum ends when the ball comes out in any direction except the tunnel. The scrum wheeled and the ball ended up outside the number 8's feet. Top poaching.
@@bondvillansarebest the ball wasn't out. The no.8 was controlling it when it was picked up. If you play in forwards especially no.8 you'd know the ball was not out. It was very fast so can't blame lino but it's clear.
@@acman453 Ball definitely out, no 8 trying to drag back in. No-one mentioning that the ball wasn't hooked by Tigers, free kick Bears.
@@acman453 no it was out. The ball came out the flanker sideways and therefore was out so Randall was able to pick it and kick it out. It was a good 1/2 metre out so not a close call at all
@@acman453 If you watch in slow motion, the ball comes out through the nearside flankers feet as the scrum wheels. The number 8 then attempts to step across to control it. I agree that the nearside touch judge must have been VERY alert to notice as he's the person who signals to the referee that it was a fair poach (ref Mic picks catches him saying he checked with the touch judge.
Things you love to see!!!!!
Here's something else you love to see - karma...
Omg! DRAMA!!!!
First, Pat Lam tries to say Afoa is injured. Then when the referee says they will have to go down to 13 players, Afoa is suddenly not injured. Then while the scrum is in progress, Andy Uren takes the ball out of the scrum and kicks the ball out and the ref says game over. Leicester were robbed. This situation doesn't give Bristol a good look.
Wrong. Lam states Afoa is injured (4:15), the ref tells him that Bristol must go down to 13 men, Lam then goes to take of Sheedy (4:20) and is happy to do so. Then, the ref asks a member of the coaching staff if Afoa is injured, to which that member says no (4:45). When this coaching member says that Afoa is not injured, Lam says "no no no", but at this point the ref has taken the answer of the coaching member
@@olliepeacey5294 ok I get that but doesn't explain why Andy Uren is allowed to take the ball out of the scrum and then kick it out
@@kit3979 agreed, that’s on the ref
@@olliepeacey5294 yh the ref had a shocker at the end. He lost control of the game completely
On the 75th odd minute mark the ref also warns the bears that the next penalty will give away a yellow then goes and gives two back to back scrum penalties without booking anyone.. shocking officiating in the last 10-15 of the match
Did the number 9 of bristol get the ball illegally from that last scrum of the game? Correct me if I m wrong
How about sorting out the scrum feeds?
Great game interesting tactics at the end
Ridiculous from Pat Lam. I’ve lost all respect for him. He knew what he was doing and it was pure cheating. His explanation is pathetic to. He knew that it wasn’t an injury sub. It doesn’t take a genius to work out. Ofoa wasn’t injured. This has to be dealt with with a deduction of points suspension of Pat Lam or something.
Won’t happen ,coaches have been doing this for years to benefit themselves
You ok hun?
I might have genuinely been a misunderstanding and even if not he is still part of the team and cheating is going on constantly on the pitch and off (e.g Richie mccaw)
Yeah its a stramge one because in rugby if you can cheat on the pitch and get away with it then you are hailed as brilliant. Something didnt quite feel right about this. Very France v Wales esq, however it is what it is and the Leicester pack have to take that at the end of the day.
Afoa had just come back from injury so it was fair, he came off fairly early. And the decision was eventually made that it was a tactical sub so why are you complaining?
Leicester smashing the Bristol scrum until they get a 5 minute breather and an apparently injured prop who's had half the game to rest back on. Pat Lam ought to be ashamed of himself and Bristol fans should be embarrassed.
Well if he's not injured he's allowed back on. It's just rules lads. Just cause Leicester ain't any good no more no need to cry about it.
@Redford UTB Pat Lam dawdling about it for 5 minutes to give his pack a rest is shite, this is rugby not football.
@@linalmeemow did Leicester not get 5 minutes too?
@@jeffjefferson3364 Leicester didn't need it, they were stuffing a tired Bristol pack.
I'm confused, Pat Lam seemed to indicate that the guy was injured so they wouldn't replace him, but Botherwick seemed to suggest that it was a tactical subsitution and complained - so they brought him back on because Botherwick and the ref said he should? Surely it's not really Lam's fault then is it? (Sorry if I' misunderstanding, didn't see the whole game but that was my take-away from it?)
3:26 Come on!!!
to be fair, I saw this live on TV it was a cracking game! Leicester have rediscovered their pack vigour, and Bristol showed us the buccaneering spirit behind their scintillating breakaways. But it all went horribly wrong in the final minutes just when reaching its climax. Can't help feeling the irony with the Tigers this time the victims of the type of muscular gamesmanship they used to flout themselves. Just ask any Munster fan.
Well said. From a Munster man 😂
Neil Back????
Everyone saying bristol cheated to get extra text it was the Leicester manager that caused all the issues
Bristol cheaters 💩
I wouldn't say they cheated, they made a serious error, which Afoa would have suffered for if he was actually injured. The ref, after talking to the two coach, should have insisted Bristol removed a players as per the injured player regulation. If Bristol would do it, he yellow cards the Bristol captain and restarts with a Leicester uncontested scrum.
it wasnt leicesters DoR who magicly healed afoa, it was leicester is DoR who wanted a decision to be made and to get in with it. pat lam decided to cheat and change his mind after he heard he would have to go down to 13 men. clear and obvious cheating, he needs to be punished
Selecting an injured player - surely thats a massive duty of care issue there that should be investigated too
But you can clearly hear lam say that's fine to take the extra man off just before the Leicester dor started shouting about cheating
This doesn’t surprise me a whole lot as it’s Bristol
Shocking refereeing after the impact of the rules are known the team management change their minds and the referee obliges.....what a
I'm not sure he is allowed to make that call to be fair. But the scrum was a bit of a shit show and the touch judge called it incorrectly IMHO.
Shocking decision
Which ? There was a fair few in that game..
Best team won, Leicester have spent years getting the rub of the green that it's almost a pleasure to see them have the other end of the stick
Leicester should have had this game wrapped up, butchered a couple of nailed-on scoring opportunities. We'll be top 4 and challenging for the title again within a couple of seasons though,.
@@linalmeemow you've said that for a couple of seasons though
@@jeffjefferson3364 No I haven't, we were rubbish until Borthwick got control.
Awesome!=)
Worlds earliest push as well
I noticed that. Marginal but still gives a huge advantage.
Here comes the whinging
So Radradra will definitely miss the selection for NZ tour. At least Nadalo and murimurivalu are available now
a lot of butthurt going on here.. at the end of the day, tigers pack should of pushed them over again. the ball spilled out, thats the risk you take. borthwick was mouthing off that afoa should be going on and then when bristol put him on, he was mouthing off that Afoa was injured. deal with the outcome even if it doesn't go your way.
It looked very like Lam lied about Afoa to get uncontested scrums then changed his mind when told he would have to sacrifice a back line player. Borthwicks frustration was understandable
@@almcdonald8676 my point is Borthwick moaned at either outcome.
Yes borthwick lost his shit which was of no help whatsoever in the circumstances. It appears afoa was injured pre game and only played the first 40 to avoid aggravating it so I can see why Lam said he was injured whilst the substitution was labelled as tactical
@@almcdonald8676 I agree. Borthwick had an option of uncontested scrum against 13 players, 8 of whom HAD to be in the scrum. If you can't manage a two man overlap under those circumstances then you should be playing professional rugby.
A lot of hate for Bristol here, the luck of the call goes against you as much as it goes for you in rugby. IMO the booing was really distasteful.
The booing was justified, the ref did nothing wrong, Pat Lam screwed up big time. It was a tactical sub, afoa should have come straight on and then people would have been ok. Mistake or not it was shameful what Bristol did. Not to mention that the scrum half was a little offside at the end.
@@leonrobinson2053 I wouldn't say the ref did nothing wrong. He shouldn't have let Bristol change their mind once they made a decision.
@@silentfrog completely agree with you, I couldn't see Wayne Barnes flip flopping like that but Refs are human. Will just make the next meeting a tasty one.
Yeah I agree with that on the basis of player welfare. If it’s undecided if your players injured then let’s avoid testing resolving the uncertainty with a career ending exacerbation of a minor niggle
The hate isn't because of "the luck of the call", it's because of Pat Lam being a slimy lying weasel
Worst ref in the league. He’s always surrounded by controversy
Afoa going down with wiggie at the end is like watching an adult male Lion playing scared with its cubs. Lol
Coming back to this a year later and genuinely bemused as to why it caused so much outrage. All this talk of cheating from the Bristol side - but in reality Afoa going back on was probably the worse of the two options for Leicester. Lam didn't seem to want him on and accepted the fact that it would mean uncontested scrums and another player off the pitch - Leicester would surely score when they're guaranteed to get the ball from the scrum and have a 3 on 1 on the wing.
I think all the sentiment must come from hindsight. In hindsight, Afoa coming back on meant Leicester lost and maybe they would have won if he didn't. But it seems like Lam's reluctance to bring Afoa on aligns with the ideal Leicester view?
I've not lost any respect for the man over it, didn't now and haven't still. DoR putting player safety first and seems like lam was happy to essentially concede the game rather than risk a player injured and risk the season.
NZers cheating at rugby?
No!!
Impossible
so true
Which Kiwi ? ... and what were they cheating at ?
@@fukawitribe Pat Lam and John Afoa, saying he was injured until they learned that this was the less efficacious option of “rule manipulation,” ie cheating.
@@jacqloock The only Kiwi there was John Afoa, and he never said he was injured, and went on against Lams wishes. So anything else to discuss ?
@@fukawitribe Even as a neutral, I have got to side with you on this one.
Love reading the comments, Bristol never cheated, best team won on the day, so stop wining like a bunch of little school girls and let's get ready for the last game of the season next week and also home semi secured up the bears 🐻🐻🐻
I mean you’ll most likely lose and get some karma there which I think everyone will enjoy
Let's have a guess who u support, descion was a farce
One like from yourself and two comments telling you how wrong you are says a lot
Ok if I'm being honest, best team lost on the day yesterday. Leicester dominated the Bristol pack all game. Leicester deserved the win imo
Up the bears
hahaaaa yes bristol!!!
If that’s the way you have to win, I’m happy to lose
I'm afraid that Bristol should have their points for this game deducted.
They blatantly lied to delay the restart to give their players chance to recover.
A chance that Leicester availed of also.
@@jeffjefferson3364 They weren't defending with players down and would not be so tired.
Bristol were on their last legs.
Some rules are stupids ....
Brilliant ending, Bristol deserved the win, Genge got it handed to him, he should have been ready for the push.
You generally wait for the ball before pushing - something else the ref got wrong.
Early pushing is illegal buddy, pretty basic tenant of scrummaging laws.
Early push
Shame about the cheating, karma is great, enjoy your loss this weekend in Bristol.
Wow that ending was terrible . Lam should be ashamed . Is that any different from bloodgate?
@@joesaunders1631 Karma reared its beautiful head yesterday!
If Borthwick doesn't get involved at the end Leicester win simple
Couldn't have happened to a nicer team 😂😂😂😂
I don’t understand why they were so reluctant to bring Afoa on considering the job he did on genge when he did come on.
Injured prior the game. Started as our alternate option was Chaparro playing tighthead.. if Chaparro got injured straight away, would mean Afoa playing remainder of game which wouldnt be great with an existing injury. So played 40, Lam took him off as an injury, then team manager wrote it as tactical.... complete admin error on Bristol's part, but it doesnt make them cheaters. When Chaparro got the yellow this all flared up on touch-line. You can see Afoa saying 'f, this' and runs back on.. nothing Lam can really do as it was the players decision...
Agree though, if anything, it's a testament to how much of a monster Afoa is.. he must had been as stiff as a board before that last scrum!
Afoa had 40 minutes to rest and recover against genge who had played 80 minutes of rugby and just spent himself in 10 minutes of scrums. Quite frankly if the fresh legs of afoa hadn't beaten rhe spent legs of genge thrn he wouod like one hell of a tit and wouldn't be worthy of being a professional player.
@@christopheroflynn5217 all the more reason not to make a fuss about bringing on Afoa. I also don’t understand why Leicester complained about Afoa not coming on. 7 on 5 in the backs 5 metres from the try line should be a walkover
@@Rhys78686 I believe it's down to the timing. Leicester are dominating the scrum so if afoa jumps straight on to the pitch, considering how tired the rest of the Bristol pack are then he shouldn't make too big of an impact. However in the 8 minutes it takes to sort things out, the Bristol pack will no longer be as tired and can put on a good fight against the Leicester scrum ESPECIALLY with fresh legs. I honestly think nobody would of complained if afoa had come straight on after the yellow, but as things were taking so long it makes sense as to why Borthwick would become frustrated and argue he shouldn't go on.
@@christopheroflynn5217 think you're missing the point and subject of my response. Was about the reluctancy of Lam wanting Afoa on.... becuase of a pre-exisiting injury. He already played 40minutes against Genge, which you can see in the highlights. "one hell of a tit and wouldn't be worthy of being a professional player" - I'm sure the former All Black and professional rugby player of 20 years would value that comment from you.
Tigers losing...
YOU LOVE TO SEE IT!!! 😅🤪
even more satisfied to see Borthwick loosing
@@karlosdeevs even more satisfying seeing Tigers haters spelling shit wrong
Cheating Bristol spunking a 28 point lead up the wall...
YOU LOVE TO SEE IT!!! 😅🤪
Ooff this comment has been living rent free for a while 😩🤣🤣🤣
@@regrettablespursfan4778 Made the weekend result all the more entertaining, mate!
Embarrassing all round from Bristol
Disgusting display at the end by Bristol. This isn't what rugby is about.
I think Lam just didn't understand the laws by going down to 13 with uncontested scrums. And neither did Borthwick to be fair. Considering how professional the sport is, their lack of knowledge is surprising.
That's why they're coaching and you're not lol
@@wiseguyfrigate1612 Huh?
Poor refereeing , Poor sportsmanship from Bristol, and Poor behavior at the whistle , Nice one Bristol..
🧂Enjoy your salt, up the bears 🐻.
You should save such cutting-edge insights for your thesis, Johann.
Enjoy your karma, Johann.
@@linalmeemow Well played sir. I'll eat my shit for you.
@@SupaSeb09 Taken like a man, fair play.
Bristol cheaters. This is a men's sport
Im not too surprised by this behaviour from Bristol, not a fan at all
First
Nandalo being dirty yet again
2:00 Nandolo proving why he's not a good fit for Leicester.
Because he apologised? 😂
and that's why I don't watch European rugby
The officiating in this game was nothing short of shambolic. The number of stone wall decisions that were incorrect ruined the flow of the game. Would like to say I feel sorry for Leicester but I don't really because they have a team full of knobheads