There is an anecdote by Christa Ludwig in one of the many documentaries on Karajan, in which she tells him his tempi are so slow that the music becomes impossible to sing for the soloists. "I'll have to find me some better soloists, then", was his reply. "You won't find anyone better than us", Ludwig told him, after which Karajan conducted the tempo of her choice at the concert.
I just finished watching this video for the 2nd time. At least for me, this was the funniest, most entertaining video you've done so far. I died laughing - "jello mold"!? Thanks so much. It made my day. I went and listened to that Karajan Bach Magnificat excerpt you included in your written review, and what happened to the chorus, indeed! It almost sounded like he was trying to treat the chorus as just another section of the orchestra. Thanks again!
Thanks for this Dave! As always extremely entertaining. Very eagerly anticipating a video on Mozart’s Requiem, and indeed Haydn’s The Creation and The Seasons. I recently bought the Bohm recording of the lattermost work with Gundula Janowitz, Peter Schreier and Martti Talvela, and its wondeful.
For some reason, having three performances of Mozart's Requiem in this box and your general comments about the work, whets my appetite for a best and worst video about it.
I was aware of his Zen and other East Asian believes at the time, so I was actually surprised that he wanted a real catholic Requiem for himself in the Salzburg Cathedral with the Bishop and Mozarts Requiem conducted by Riccardo Muti…
'Thick & oily'. A perfect encapsulation of some of HvK's performances. Let's hope he's not slipping and sliding about in his grave after this. Made me chuckle this UK morning, though. Think I'll go and listen to all of his Mozart 'Requem's' now
A delightful exposé of Karajan at his worst. I actually bought this box a number of years ago, if only because the prospect of hearing HvK in this repertoire was, well, fascinating in a gruesome sort of way. I wasn't disappointed. Gruesome indeed, especially in Bach. Thank the Powers That Be Karajan never sought religious consolations further back in music history. Otherwise, he might have followed Stokowski's lead and given us the Monteverdi Vespers (yes, Stokowski recorded it, and it's not as bad as one might have thought).
Unrelated to this: unsure if you have any interest in the Super Bowl, but i typically will immerse myself in the recordings of the orchestras from the towns that are in the game and use that as the basis to cheer for a team when i otherwise don’t care. But this year it’s go Bengals (Who Dey!) So all week and into next it’ll be recordings from the Cincinnati Symphony (and Pops!) and the LAPhil (and LACO). You’ve touched on some of this already with the Mehta and Paavo Jarvi boxes, but I’d be interested to hear your take on select favorites from both orchestras. Jarvi’s Tubin was an ear opener, Lopez-Cobos’s Mahler 3 is my desert island disc, and Gielen’s Beethoven 3 is a real treat. It’d be nice if Eloquence graced us with a Max Rudolf box. On LAPhil - the Planets is bombastic, we get graceful Giulini, a boatload of Salonen, etc.
Dave, you are as amusing as some of the standup comedians I've seen. Your comments re the ghastly artwork for the Bach S M Passion had the missus and myself shaking with laughter last night. I mean, literally. What were the people at DG thinking of when they okayed this cover back in '73? It is included in my HVK 1970s box set. I turned the cd round upon purchase so that I don't have to see that life-sapping image ever again. BEST, D.
I really enjoy the first three movements of his Beethoven's Ninths (Both the '63 and '77), but for me things go downhill in the choral movement, for all the reasons you gave in this talk.
Dave, I have a question which isn’t directly related to this video, but I’d be really interested in your answer. Does having/not having perfect pitch affect how we listen to music, and in how we perform it? (I don’t have it, by the way.) For example, from memory Karajan had it, whereas Furtwängler didn’t. How relevant is that? Do we know which conductors had it?
Re your jello mould comment: some English critic once (it might even have been Richard Osborne) described the experience of listening to a bad Karajan recording as “being trapped in a pudding”. Unforgettably accurate image (and I love Karajan when he’s good).
I wonder why Orff's De Temporum Fine Comoedia is not included in the box. It must be the least PC recording in history, by today's standards, and that alone elevates it to must-have status!
Hi Dave, love your channel. I know a lot of the music you discuss and love many things but i hold a special place for Andor Foldes. Would you consider doing something about him?
For another example of "great singers put to not good use", see Karajan's 1967 La Scala video of the Verdi Requiem on a DG DVD: Leontyne Price, Fiorenza Cossotto, Luciano Pavarotti and Nicolai Ghiaurov. The performance is not much different, but just watching the singers is fascinating. Filmed live, without a lot of Karajan close-ups.
Hilariously entertainment with a razor edge that cuts right through the von Karajan pseudoreligious pudding Mr Hurwitz - but leaving a crucial question about one work that works: Bruckners Te Deum: Is Herbies 1984 digi-remake also included in the box? (I guess so) but just of less mentionworthy grandeur than his analogue recording?
The dg lable in general is always very good got good lot of there recordings. Enjoy your analysis the music plus when you show the musical scores and the tach side of it all.
Oy, what a variable monstrosity. How about just a box of HVK Mozart Requiems? I’m sure there’s some gray market radio broadcasts floating around out there DG could license.
Karajan's problem with Choirs is the same problem he had with music generally - he tended to force everything to fit his ideal concept of sound. It served some music well, but much of what he recorded is the aural equivalent of seeing the world without wearing your glasses.
There is an anecdote by Christa Ludwig in one of the many documentaries on Karajan, in which she tells him his tempi are so slow that the music becomes impossible to sing for the soloists. "I'll have to find me some better soloists, then", was his reply. "You won't find anyone better than us", Ludwig told him, after which Karajan conducted the tempo of her choice at the concert.
I just finished watching this video for the 2nd time. At least for me, this was the funniest, most entertaining video you've done so far. I died laughing - "jello mold"!? Thanks so much. It made my day.
I went and listened to that Karajan Bach Magnificat excerpt you included in your written review, and what happened to the chorus, indeed! It almost sounded like he was trying to treat the chorus as just another section of the orchestra. Thanks again!
So glad you enjoyed it (and heard what I was talking about)!
I only have 1 Karajan recording, and that was his (1st) studio recording of "The Creation." That is a fantastic performance.
Thanks for this Dave! As always extremely entertaining. Very eagerly anticipating a video on Mozart’s Requiem, and indeed Haydn’s The Creation and The Seasons. I recently bought the Bohm recording of the lattermost work with Gundula Janowitz, Peter Schreier and Martti Talvela, and its wondeful.
For some reason, having three performances of Mozart's Requiem in this box and your general comments about the work, whets my appetite for a best and worst video about it.
I was aware of his Zen and other East Asian believes at the time, so I was actually surprised that he wanted a real catholic Requiem for himself in the Salzburg Cathedral with the Bishop and Mozarts Requiem conducted by Riccardo Muti…
'Thick & oily'. A perfect encapsulation of some of HvK's performances. Let's hope he's not slipping and sliding about in his grave after this. Made me chuckle this UK morning, though. Think I'll go and listen to all of his Mozart 'Requem's' now
A delightful exposé of Karajan at his worst. I actually bought this box a number of years ago, if only because the prospect of hearing HvK in this repertoire was, well, fascinating in a gruesome sort of way. I wasn't disappointed. Gruesome indeed, especially in Bach. Thank the Powers That Be Karajan never sought religious consolations further back in music history. Otherwise, he might have followed Stokowski's lead and given us the Monteverdi Vespers (yes, Stokowski recorded it, and it's not as bad as one might have thought).
Unrelated to this: unsure if you have any interest in the Super Bowl, but i typically will immerse myself in the recordings of the orchestras from the towns that are in the game and use that as the basis to cheer for a team when i otherwise don’t care. But this year it’s go Bengals (Who Dey!) So all week and into next it’ll be recordings from the Cincinnati Symphony (and Pops!) and the LAPhil (and LACO). You’ve touched on some of this already with the Mehta and Paavo Jarvi boxes, but I’d be interested to hear your take on select favorites from both orchestras. Jarvi’s Tubin was an ear opener, Lopez-Cobos’s Mahler 3 is my desert island disc, and Gielen’s Beethoven 3 is a real treat. It’d be nice if Eloquence graced us with a Max Rudolf box. On LAPhil - the Planets is bombastic, we get graceful Giulini, a boatload of Salonen, etc.
Dave, you are as amusing as some of the standup comedians I've seen. Your comments re the ghastly artwork for the Bach S M Passion had the missus and myself shaking with laughter last night. I mean, literally. What were the people at DG thinking of when they okayed this cover back in '73? It is included in my HVK 1970s box set. I turned the cd round upon purchase so that I don't have to see that life-sapping image ever again. BEST, D.
I think the cover art is an ill-advised reference to the so-called Shroud of Turin.
I really enjoy the first three movements of his Beethoven's Ninths (Both the '63 and '77), but for me things go downhill in the choral movement, for all the reasons you gave in this talk.
This video, as many of your videos, is provocative, entertaining, and informative.
Dave, I have a question which isn’t directly related to this video, but I’d be really interested in your answer. Does having/not having perfect pitch affect how we listen to music, and in how we perform it? (I don’t have it, by the way.) For example, from memory Karajan had it, whereas Furtwängler didn’t. How relevant is that? Do we know which conductors had it?
I don't think it matters at all, except that if it becomes a fetish it can annoy everyone around you.
Is the Verdi's Requiem on DVD (Pavarotti, Price, Cossotto, Ghiaurov) any good?
It is so satisfying to hear Karajan expertly trashed - and I particularly appreciate it from someone who is also willing to acknowledge his strengths.
Thank you. He had many strengths--just not these (mostly).
Re your jello mould comment: some English critic once (it might even have been Richard Osborne) described the experience of listening to a bad Karajan recording as “being trapped in a pudding”. Unforgettably accurate image (and I love Karajan when he’s good).
Thanks! You made my day! (As so often you do!)
I wonder why Orff's De Temporum Fine Comoedia is not included in the box. It must be the least PC recording in history, by today's standards, and that alone elevates it to must-have status!
Hi Dave, love your channel. I know a lot of the music you discuss and love many things but i hold a special place for Andor Foldes. Would you consider doing something about him?
I'd consider it--but not right away. I've got so much to do already!
For another example of "great singers put to not good use", see Karajan's 1967 La Scala video of the Verdi Requiem on a DG DVD: Leontyne Price, Fiorenza Cossotto, Luciano Pavarotti and Nicolai Ghiaurov. The performance is not much different, but just watching the singers is fascinating. Filmed live, without a lot of Karajan close-ups.
Haha, great content! Please review the Karajan 60s 70s and 80s boxes… or the whole shebang!
That's me. Always late. I wish I found this channel so long ago
Thank you for this spot on review!
Hilariously entertainment with a razor edge that cuts right through the von Karajan pseudoreligious pudding Mr Hurwitz - but leaving a crucial question about one work that works: Bruckners Te Deum:
Is Herbies 1984 digi-remake also included in the box? (I guess so) but just of less mentionworthy grandeur than his analogue recording?
Yes it is. I mentioned that.
I remember John Culshaw writing that a major problem with Karajan was that he was up to his knees in doormats. The huge ego, plus the enablers.......
The dg lable in general is always very good got good lot of there recordings. Enjoy your analysis the music plus when you show the musical scores and the tach side of it all.
You are a poet Dave!!!
Oy, what a variable monstrosity. How about just a box of HVK Mozart Requiems? I’m sure there’s some gray market radio broadcasts floating around out there DG could license.
Don't give them ideas!
Too bad they didn't include the Verdi Requiem from La Scala that was the basis of the Ponnelle film....better than his commercial recordings for sure!
Not much.
Great soloists (especially Ghiaurov) but not much else
Karajan's problem with Choirs is the same problem he had with music generally - he tended to force everything to fit his ideal concept of sound. It served some music well, but much of what he recorded is the aural equivalent of seeing the world without wearing your glasses.
Yes, he often let choral music "go to his head".
Much of Karajan's later stuff is SO lethargic sounding and surprisingly poorly recorded.
The Planets is choral, no??
No.
Surprised he recorded so much choral music as he was not a fan of singers in general.
He was not a fan of human beings.
@@DavesClassicalGuide lol