I split my time with his time. I then said I am more than happy to work with him on the hub dyno. Since I did.NOT build the engine, and I did NOT wire it, I had Fuel Tech Tech on the line for 3 hours or so, I took brand new parts out of my inventory to try and even modify. I changed everything I could. Why is this my fault that I should not at least split pain. There was nothing that was my fault, there was nothing that was their fault. Why exactly should I eat everything?
Sensor ground is different than chassis ground. Generally the rule is, if it runs on 5v connect it to sensor ground, if it runs on 12v it must not be connected to sensor ground. Connecting a 12v device to sensor ground introduces all the noise, as you found.
Father and Son working together is priceless. Don't take it for granted. One day one of you won't be there. I miss my father as we farmed together. Not a day goes by that I don't think of those priceless moments. We had a few bad times but I don't even remember those as we all have them. I just remember the good stuff.
I had a conversion with Chris over at Torqstorm on the "Green" belts after throwing two belts, they are heavy duty belts made to go around large pullies, because of their stiffness they have a hard time going around small diameter pullies which can cause slippage or derailment. I switched over to a standard Gates automotive belt and never had an issue again.
@@Berm_Blaster At the time, 6800rpm with a 3.100" pulley making 7.6 psi. Now making, with the new charger 17.4 psi 3.250 pulley at 6800rpm. Standard Gates automotive 8 ribbed belt.
Yeah it was a sad day when Gates stopped making the RPM belt. That belt held up very well with superchargers. I was running the six rib RPM belt on my 3 l M50 BMW engine, driving the Eaton m122 h 18 lb of boost on a road course. Now I definitely have to go with an 8-rib or possibly 10 to do the same thing with a standard belt.
I describe it as, it can take more than once to learn some simple (painless) things but it only takes once when it's as painful as what they went through (like hitting your thumb with a hammer)...
Місяць тому+2
Some people do , and some people just make it over and over again . We call them Morons ! lol
When my dad had his sandrail with a Porsche 928 S4 that had 4 dual 48 mm webers and a Indy car transmission with a trigger fire ignition it took so long to get it to run right because it would rev so fast that it would lose the ignition timing. He got tired of it and traded it to Geiser Bros and they were able to get it going and ran it in Baja to play with and was the fastest thing I had ever drove. It’s such an awesome time to be alive and watching your videos.
@@davidg3944 a very bold choice considering the 928 V8 was literally the worst engine Porsche ever made lol. Even Porsche people do engine swaps in those cars.
Would be a good addition to the dyno booth to have at least a cheap security camera and dvr setup to go back and check little things like that quickly!
I’ve spend weeks troubleshooting giant HVAC equipment that have come down to one wire connection or a single program button push that you go past through the whole process. And I agree with your statement you just can’t charge for every single hour. The customer would hate you at the end of the job when they get there bill.
Yep, when you have to "learn" what the problem was, you can't charge the customer the full amount of time that it took you to "learn". You're SUPPOSED to KNOW what the issue is, and how to quickly locate it. I fully agree, and charge my customers accordingly.
Stevo you the Man. It is your work ethics and compassion for your work and others that makes you the World class Engine builder you are. Have a great weekend and God bless your family and all at SME. Dewey says you rocked it Pops
Remember, star point grounding. You also need the same size ground as the positive. Never trust using the chassis as ground for anything other than lights. All ecu I know of need to know the reference / measured ground so it can calculate the difference. Another helpful hint. Make sure the crank trigger and the cam sync are not triggered at the same exact time. Most ecu can’t calculate the algorithm fast enough for both pickups at the same time. This can cause some ghost issues that will drive you mad!! Especially at higher rpms!
Hi Steve and Kyle, It was very nice to meet you and your son and wife at the Engine Builders magazine party. At the tin roof Wednesday night. The problem you had with the FORD on the last video. I spoke to a friend of mine about. His business is Smith Systems Inc. I explained it. and he nailed the answer. Like I told you at the party,I like watching your videos,I learn a lot. Keep up the great work. Mike
I'm been a Maintenance Technician for close to 30 years...and I have seen problems with the "shielding" with sensors before. But, most of it is 110 ac stuff.
In grad school I designed gas sensors that operated down in the nanoamp a million times smaller than a miliamp) range and had some issues with my measurements. Turns out my cellphone if too close to the set-up would get though my shielding and saturate the measurement system, lol. I had to go back and design better shielding on top of the normal precautions, lol.
It certainly isn't Dewey's fault. LOL Figured it was a wiring issue since it ran in the car but you mentioning you replaced the harness and checked continuity is what kept the fingers away from the keyboard. Still chomping at the bit for the upcoming Gen III Hemi videos. Cheers!
I stopped the video in the middle to say... That 3d printed engine block spark plug holder is cool azz sh!t! We now return to our regularly scheduled program.
Steve, I think its impressive you will even touch peoples engines/harnesses/etc that you didn't build. The risk is high on your side, and the benefit margin is usually low in most cases. You're a good dude for the industry because everyone gets to learn together and most shops wouldn't even think twice about not touching someone else's ordeal. No such thing as a free anything in life, and I feel everyone still won in the case of that engine.
HEY STEVE this was my comment from other video: Steve you've got rpm when you're holding the sensor but not when the sensor is in it's holder. could the sensor wiring be incorrect between ECU and CKP plug? 3WIRE sensor W/a shield? By the symptoms it looks like noisy / dirty / unshielded wiring. WOW this is a head scratcher.
I'm in audio, not cars (but I never miss an episode!). This is analogous to the "pin 1 problem" in audio, ... whereas the return and shield are improperly used. Interesting. After a long tedius troubleshooting effort, oftentimes it's prudent to bring in anyone, regardless of their skill level, ... and bounce it off them.
The Hall Effect crank sensor has 3 wires. Black is the common or ground (return). The shield of the wire harness should not be used as a return to the computer, to reduce noise.
I’m an old timer that we had hot rods n/a don’t know what it means but we were bad ass, you can’t give any information on what you were running. Thanks for the info you giving out. 70s nothing was on the internet. Bless you and your son and family ❤
There were PLENTY of "old school" roots blown hot rods out there back in the day. "Old" and strictly "N/A" were never a thing. Blown engines have been around longer than ANY of us.
Like I said on your last video, it was a ground loop. I’ve only seen it one other time and like I said before that was on a caterpillar diesel I’ve had to reverse engineer so many different things so many different systems define problems from mechanical to electrical. But at least you guys were able to find the problem.
The mind bogles, Great you sorted it, but just strange, was that a newly fitted harness on the dyno ? or was it the first time you have used that type of sensor on your dynos ?
Some sensors require a special sensor ground, not a general chassis ground to the battery. It’s a ground that goes straight to the control module for clean sensor signal. Most sensors can be on a sensor ground network and some need a dedicated single ground wire to the computer. It just reduces interference from any other stuff on the engine like ignition system and electric motors
The sensors I've worked with depending on the vendor, you had to pay attention to the shield and the best way to test it was to lift the shield out of the ecm because they were typically a twisted pair set with a sheild. Sometimes, you could swap parts, sensors and harnesses and create a ground loop from the couple strnadd of shield wire making contact at both ends, which introduced an entire new rabbit hole. I understand this case was likely a simple miss-wire in the harness used, not being pinned out the same.
@@optimumperformance6998 Right. In industry (this app is no different) shields connect at the controller and not at the 'other end'. A bit of study of the schematic of each of the sensors, and control units, and this won't happen again.
Thank you! Now I understand how I fixed my crank sensor problem. Until now I wasn't sure which change (made many at once) actually worked. Thanks again for all the information you provide here!
And that was not the problem the problem was with the pick up sensor grounding to the block when it shouldn't All sensor ground need to be provided by the ECU The ECU got a filter to not have this exact problem the starter and alternator are way too noisy to share the same grounds as the most important sensor on the engine the crank sensor Even the power going to the coil and injector are enough to cause interference
Just started this video, so haven't seen the answer, but as a mechanic, I've also come across wires that will test fine with a DVOM and LED sty'e test light, but when any actual current is used, it reads open. When you have situations like this, try an old school incandescent test light provided the wire is meant to handle that kind of load.
Off topic Steve but what's up with the SMX Camaro? KSR hasn't done any videos since your Thrash-a-thon in Florida. Looking forward to seeing it blow some big dogs off.
Steve, You have proven the old adage about grounds, "Wiring problem, it is always the ground!" When you spun the mag wheel with a drill and held the pickup in your hand and it worked it was somewhat obvious that it was a ground problem. You went on to change everything on the engine except the oil drain plug and nothing worked1 "When you hear hoof beats don't look for zebras"!!! Rex
It’s always something simple lol. I assumed it was wired right and I was looking for something that was canceling out the magnets on the wheel. But nothing made any sense so it being a wire that’s just normal day in paradise! Good work guys. Cain hard!
I'm relatively new to the channel, but I enjoy the Steve/Kyle dynamic. I hope to see more. Call me crazy but it's nice to see a father and son working together. I'm here for it!! Doesn't hurt i may learn something else every time I click the video 😂
i have chased many ground loops like this...not in an engine, doing live sound, but the same process of "ground lift" is used to get rid of ground loop issues!
Steve and Kyle, y'all rock! Love the channel and content. Peace 🤘
Місяць тому
If you lowered the top Pulley on lsx concepts plate it would make the tensioner work where it is and give the belt more clearance from the thermostat housing too .
Just curious as to why you choose to run 8 or 10 rib serpentine belts rather than changing to a tooth style belt to eliminate the pulley slippage issues?
Obviously need to fix the tensioner issue on that Magnuson deal, but I have also had good luck making up to 20PSI on a ProCharged LS using an 8 rib with ZPE Griptec Pulleys
Question: When Kyle changed the headers, he used silicone as an exhaust mani gasket? Why? Wouldnt it be easier, and more efficient to use a mls gasket? Being as they are nearly infinitely reuseable, and wouldnt require cleaning anything off the head when you remove them, why would you not? And what kind of silicone are you using as an exhaust manifold gasket, thats actually holding up?
@legros731 a reusable metal gasket just seems like it would be so much easier when you have to R&R headers. No scraping off rtv, and actually on these engines, it would be just pull it off, do nothing, and put them back on.
Yeah but those are the type of lessons you'll never forget. That hall effect and magnetic pickups or wired differently. I didn't know how but I knew somehow that signal was being grounded by the motor. Now we all know it's in the harness.
The shield must be grounded on one end and open on the other so there is no circuit. When connected on both ends, a current can flow through the shield and induce current into a sensor wire.
Ta--Daaa a bad ground/incorrect ground.... I am glad he found it . That is the kind of detail that this industry refuses to pay for . Knowledge is a Very valuable thing.
Boost rise on Magnuson do to because they are (TVS2650) roots-blowers, non twin screws like Whipple or Kenne Bell. Big difference in tech. Roots is a blower, not a compresor like twin screw.
It seems a missed opportunity to flip the supercharger around then you've removed a few points of failure. On a sand rail the inlet orientation shouldn't be a problem?
signal return or sensor grounds are filtered, i.e. the ground is actually biased a few tenths high off true zero so it eliminates noise that is always present in 12v systems. cam and crank are then usually also shielded also.. keep on truckin,' great stuff here buddy..
so I have never worked with a ribbed/serpentine belt on a blower, but is there a reason not to have a narrow cogged belt? Now is time to work on a tensioner that uses some "boost reference" help? as is, belt wouldn't last one trip up the hill...
I work for plant facilities and did eletrical and Instrumentation and night clerk would ask what you all did on that job. They would fill out quick report. We sometimes had loose wire or burn fuse. What I did not like about it was the report never said 2 hours of work back and forth to the top floor and cell house to find the problem. Sometimes I wish I was back in maintenance because most of the time you could see the problem when you took it apart. Trouble shooting eletrical stuff will whip you azz sometimes.
You just added one more tool to your tool belt of knowledge with the wiring issue. Having the ability to read scope data and turn the sensor off the car were good data points used to solve the problem. I appreciate the content.
I’m glad you show all this stuff so people see that It doesn’t matter who you are stuff happens and everyone has to work through it. I work on diesels and we run into so weird stuff too like pressed on cam lobes and a lobe spinning on a pumping injector lol
If i was spending 25-30k on an engine i would spring the extra few grand for the added hg insurance the hoops and copper gasket gets you. Just my opinion. I know MLS gaskets have come a long way too. Wonder if it has the upgraded half inch headstuds.
When I see the belts whipping or "vibrating" when RPMs start climbing, it makes me wonder why there aren't one or two additional pulleys. Not to add more tension, but to simply contain the belts movement and maintain the belts straightness. I'd draw you a picture, but....... I'm viewing with my phone. 😁
Thanks for explaining all the little silly things... I've been working on cars for almost 30 years now..and I still learn new things watching these videos!
So it was creating to much noise is what we mechanics say, reason for the shielded wire, Gm uses a lot of that in there harnesses for audio …. Never thought of that on a crank trigger
How would you prevent belt slip in a sand car? Maybe I’m overthinking it but wouldn’t a belt driven blower be a terrible idea with constant sand in the belt constantly slipping and throwing off the tune?
Gizmos are not for the faint hearted. Points and carburetors worked great for many decades. They always got me there and back with a few basic hand tools and a flashlight if needed.
i have junk good cars because of electrical troubles. and over the years i learned if everything works but then when you try it right and it dont. its a ground problem. 99% of the time and i know i couldnt have figured out what ground it was but i did know it was a ground problem. i think i may have even said that in the last video.
The shield on a cable should never be used as a conductive path end to end. RE There should be zero current on the shield as only one end should be connected to main ground. The point of a shield is to drain off any stray voltage so it does not affect signals coming from the sensor. A hall effect sensor will have a power source, signal out and sensor ground. A reluctor type would have 2 wires for the coil. Polarity matters here as the ECU is looking for a rising or falling portion of the AC wave. Reversing polarity will cause a shift in timing.
Good job, as a mechanic my self I know it's all about starting simple. thats the best way to start working it out. And don't give up, you will kick your self when U find out how simple it was.
I found the green backed belts slip compared to a 10 rib(10pk) gates belt with no slip. Seems the green back belts like big pulleys and are too stiff for smaller pulleys. Just my experience on a Vortech assisted 363 Windsor to 7,500rpm
Eric O. at South Main could have saved you two days. In retrospect I hope you reimbursed the customer the "split" cost of this misadventure.
I split my time with his time. I then said I am more than happy to work with him on the hub dyno.
Since I did.NOT build the engine, and I did NOT wire it, I had Fuel Tech Tech on the line for 3 hours or so, I took brand new parts out of my inventory to try and even modify. I changed everything I could.
Why is this my fault that I should not at least split pain. There was nothing that was my fault, there was nothing that was their fault. Why exactly should I eat everything?
@@stevemorrisracingsome people forget that time isn't free, you should charge this clown 🤡 for even responding to his question 😂..
Facts Steve.
as a business owner myself you should absolutely not eat anything. fixing other people’s mistakes and faulty products is full pricing
@@stevemorrisracing You're being plenty fair, Steve.
Sensor ground is different than chassis ground.
Generally the rule is, if it runs on 5v connect it to sensor ground,
if it runs on 12v it must not be connected to sensor ground.
Connecting a 12v device to sensor ground introduces all the noise, as you found.
This comment should be pinned to the top.
Only in the aftermarket...
Father and Son working together is priceless. Don't take it for granted. One day one of you won't be there. I miss my father as we farmed together. Not a day goes by that I don't think of those priceless moments. We had a few bad times but I don't even remember those as we all have them. I just remember the good stuff.
I had a conversion with Chris over at Torqstorm on the "Green" belts after throwing two belts, they are heavy duty belts made to go around large pullies, because of their stiffness they have a hard time going around small diameter pullies which can cause slippage or derailment. I switched over to a standard Gates automotive belt and never had an issue again.
Interesting. How high are you revving the engine and what size pulley? How much boost?
@@Berm_Blaster At the time, 6800rpm with a 3.100" pulley making 7.6 psi. Now making, with the new charger 17.4 psi 3.250 pulley at 6800rpm. Standard Gates automotive 8 ribbed belt.
Yeah it was a sad day when Gates stopped making the RPM belt. That belt held up very well with superchargers. I was running the six rib RPM belt on my 3 l M50 BMW engine, driving the Eaton m122 h 18 lb of boost on a road course.
Now I definitely have to go with an 8-rib or possibly 10 to do the same thing with a standard belt.
I never thought about this, they're stiff belts!
I like cog belts for any supercharger application. Ribbed serpentine belts are ALWAYS troublesome
What we have here is a failure to communicate....
Some men, you just can't reach
And you get what we had here last week…..
@@dracer555 which is the way he wants it...... well >>
He gets it.
Damn it now I have to go watch cool hand luke. Sometimes nothing beats a real cool hand. 👍
Luv the Dewey action. Glad he is QCing the whole tune and troubleshooting. Bring in the big nose to sniff out the wire.
Boost referenced belt tensioner adds tension as boost goes up so u don’t always have excessive tension when not needed
The thing about problems is you learn and never make the same mistake twice.. that will never be a problem again
I describe it as, it can take more than once to learn some simple (painless) things but it only takes once when it's as painful as what they went through (like hitting your thumb with a hammer)...
Some people do , and some people just make it over and over again . We call them Morons ! lol
And now thousands know. We will talk shit about it with others…😂
Wiring is part of building engine's don't blame someone else you got enough brains to be a sparky
@@beemerkon Genius Alert - Everybody man the pumps a smart ass has spoken.
One of the ECM grounds is not a ground. It is miss colored.
When my dad had his sandrail with a Porsche 928 S4 that had 4 dual 48 mm webers and a Indy car transmission with a trigger fire ignition it took so long to get it to run right because it would rev so fast that it would lose the ignition timing. He got tired of it and traded it to Geiser Bros and they were able to get it going and ran it in Baja to play with and was the fastest thing I had ever drove. It’s such an awesome time to be alive and watching your videos.
A 928 V8 is a pretty exotic choice!
@@davidg3944 a very bold choice considering the 928 V8 was literally the worst engine Porsche ever made lol. Even Porsche people do engine swaps in those cars.
8:34 its cool to have video footage to look back on and catch the belt pushing away from the tensioner on the bottom left of the engine
😮
Would be a good addition to the dyno booth to have at least a cheap security camera and dvr setup to go back and check little things like that quickly!
I’ve spend weeks troubleshooting giant HVAC equipment that have come down to one wire connection or a single program button push that you go past through the whole process. And I agree with your statement you just can’t charge for every single hour. The customer would hate you at the end of the job when they get there bill.
Gotta love commercial/industrial hvac
Yep, when you have to "learn" what the problem was, you can't charge the customer the full amount of time that it took you to "learn".
You're SUPPOSED to KNOW what the issue is, and how to quickly locate it.
I fully agree, and charge my customers accordingly.
Stevo you the Man. It is your work ethics and compassion for your work and others that makes you the World class Engine builder you are. Have a great weekend and God bless your family and all at SME. Dewey says you rocked it Pops
Remember, star point grounding. You also need the same size ground as the positive. Never trust using the chassis as ground for anything other than lights.
All ecu I know of need to know the reference / measured ground so it can calculate the difference.
Another helpful hint. Make sure the crank trigger and the cam sync are not triggered at the same exact time. Most ecu can’t calculate the algorithm fast enough for both pickups at the same time. This can cause some ghost issues that will drive you mad!! Especially at higher rpms!
Clear as mud... Thanks for sharing.
Hi Steve and Kyle,
It was very nice to meet you and your son and wife at the Engine Builders magazine party. At the tin roof Wednesday night. The problem you had with the FORD on the last video. I spoke to a friend of mine about. His business is Smith Systems Inc. I explained it. and he nailed the answer. Like I told you at the party,I like watching your videos,I learn a lot. Keep up the great work.
Mike
Steve your dog has probably saw more motor builds then most humans 😊good pup
I'm been a Maintenance Technician for close to 30 years...and I have seen problems with the "shielding" with sensors before. But, most of it is 110 ac stuff.
You not work with robots? Encoder cables are big for having issues with ti
In grad school I designed gas sensors that operated down in the nanoamp a million times smaller than a miliamp) range and had some issues with my measurements.
Turns out my cellphone if too close to the set-up would get though my shielding and saturate the measurement system, lol.
I had to go back and design better shielding on top of the normal precautions, lol.
It certainly isn't Dewey's fault. LOL Figured it was a wiring issue since it ran in the car but you mentioning you replaced the harness and checked continuity is what kept the fingers away from the keyboard. Still chomping at the bit for the upcoming Gen III Hemi videos. Cheers!
I stopped the video in the middle to say...
That 3d printed engine block spark plug holder is cool azz sh!t!
We now return to our regularly scheduled program.
I'm pretty sure he still sells these on his site.
Is that blower belt rubbing on the thermostat housing?
Steve, I think its impressive you will even touch peoples engines/harnesses/etc that you didn't build. The risk is high on your side, and the benefit margin is usually low in most cases. You're a good dude for the industry because everyone gets to learn together and most shops wouldn't even think twice about not touching someone else's ordeal. No such thing as a free anything in life, and I feel everyone still won in the case of that engine.
You're dang Skippy
HEY STEVE this was my comment from other video: Steve you've got rpm when you're holding the sensor but not when the sensor is in it's holder. could the sensor wiring be incorrect between ECU and CKP plug? 3WIRE sensor W/a shield?
By the symptoms it looks like noisy / dirty / unshielded wiring. WOW this is a head scratcher.
Told ya! 😂 I run into that stuff on injected generators all the time! I hate em! Good job.
I'm in audio, not cars (but I never miss an episode!).
This is analogous to the "pin 1 problem" in audio, ... whereas the return and shield are improperly used.
Interesting.
After a long tedius troubleshooting effort, oftentimes it's prudent to bring in anyone, regardless of their skill level, ... and bounce it off them.
The Hall Effect crank sensor has 3 wires. Black is the common or ground (return). The shield of the wire harness should not be used as a return to the computer, to reduce noise.
Dewey says that tuneup was Spot on🥇
I'm not so sure. That side eye he gave makes me think he was questioning the timing mark on the strap
But it was a bit "Ruff!" to start with!
I said Dewey would get that Ford running ❤️🐕❤️
I’m an old timer that we had hot rods n/a don’t know what it means but we were bad ass, you can’t give any information on what you were running. Thanks for the info you giving out. 70s nothing was on the internet. Bless you and your son and family ❤
There were PLENTY of "old school" roots blown hot rods out there back in the day. "Old" and strictly "N/A" were never a thing. Blown engines have been around longer than ANY of us.
Like I said on your last video, it was a ground loop. I’ve only seen it one other time and like I said before that was on a caterpillar diesel I’ve had to reverse engineer so many different things so many different systems define problems from mechanical to electrical. But at least you guys were able to find the problem.
The mind bogles, Great you sorted it, but just strange, was that a newly fitted harness on the dyno ? or was it the first time you have used that type of sensor on your dynos ?
I was on the right track, you created a ground loop?
Nope. Wired wrong, signal taken to ground.
Some sensors require a special sensor ground, not a general chassis ground to the battery. It’s a ground that goes straight to the control module for clean sensor signal. Most sensors can be on a sensor ground network and some need a dedicated single ground wire to the computer. It just reduces interference from any other stuff on the engine like ignition system and electric motors
The sensors I've worked with depending on the vendor, you had to pay attention to the shield and the best way to test it was to lift the shield out of the ecm because they were typically a twisted pair set with a sheild. Sometimes, you could swap parts, sensors and harnesses and create a ground loop from the couple strnadd of shield wire making contact at both ends, which introduced an entire new rabbit hole. I understand this case was likely a simple miss-wire in the harness used, not being pinned out the same.
@@optimumperformance6998 Right. In industry (this app is no different) shields connect at the controller and not at the 'other end'. A bit of study of the schematic of each of the sensors, and control units, and this won't happen again.
Grounds never get any respect
Thank you! Now I understand how I fixed my crank sensor problem. Until now I wasn't sure which change (made many at once) actually worked. Thanks again for all the information you provide here!
I have tached the blower drive vs driven to read belt slip on v belt set ups.
Glad you figured it out. So it was wired properly in the car but not on the dyno wiring harness? Bet you won t let that issue bite you again.
So now you know😂😂 Glad y’all got it figured out 👍👍
Steve I love how Kyle came in and dropped the truth bomb on you then left 😂😂
You did a good job isolating the disc, but the bolts also needed plastic washers under the heads. Metal washers under the heads made continuity.
And that was not the problem the problem was with the pick up sensor grounding to the block when it shouldn't
All sensor ground need to be provided by the ECU
The ECU got a filter to not have this exact problem
the starter and alternator are way too noisy to share the same grounds as the most important sensor on the engine the crank sensor
Even the power going to the coil and injector are enough to cause interference
@@legros731 Starter and alternator noise are not the reason to have separate sensor grounds. Absolutely nothing to do with it.
Just started this video, so haven't seen the answer, but as a mechanic, I've also come across wires that will test fine with a DVOM and LED sty'e test light, but when any actual current is used, it reads open. When you have situations like this, try an old school incandescent test light provided the wire is meant to handle that kind of load.
Off topic Steve but what's up with the SMX Camaro? KSR hasn't done any videos since your Thrash-a-thon in Florida. Looking forward to seeing it blow some big dogs off.
He is still working on it but not done yet.
Thanks for that. We are really excited to see it run.. 👍
I have found when you have a problem that stumps you that bad you will always remember it and never suffer from it again
I would love to just follow these two around for the day. I'd have to bring 2 note books with me lol
I noticed that upper radiator hose has a flaw, or burn mark on top!
Steve,
You have proven the old adage about grounds, "Wiring problem, it is always the ground!" When you spun the mag wheel with a drill and held the pickup in your hand and it worked it was somewhat obvious that it was a ground problem. You went on to change everything on the engine except the oil drain plug and nothing worked1 "When you hear hoof beats don't look for zebras"!!!
Rex
It’s always something simple lol. I assumed it was wired right and I was looking for something that was canceling out the magnets on the wheel. But nothing made any sense so it being a wire that’s just normal day in paradise! Good work guys. Cain hard!
Think it would be super cool if you break down your engine stages and combos and the differences
I'm relatively new to the channel, but I enjoy the Steve/Kyle dynamic. I hope to see more. Call me crazy but it's nice to see a father and son working together. I'm here for it!! Doesn't hurt i may learn something else every time I click the video 😂
Figured between this & the one that broke you’re dyno, all the BB Fords will be kicked out!
Ok, I don't live too far from you guys. I'm gonna bring my dog up there so you can teach him how to read plugs like Dewey... He's so cool...
i have chased many ground loops like this...not in an engine, doing live sound, but the same process of "ground lift" is used to get rid of ground loop issues!
What do you use to seal the headers. Does it hold up in a turbo application?
Always learning!
best race compression ratio for e85 and boost? What seat pressure for race hyd roller? zero lash, yes or no?
Steve and Kyle, y'all rock! Love the channel and content. Peace 🤘
If you lowered the top Pulley on lsx concepts plate it would make the tensioner work where it is and give the belt more clearance from the thermostat housing too .
That 427 is a torque monster too.
Hell yeah it is, torque is the fun number
Just curious as to why you choose to run 8 or 10 rib serpentine belts rather than changing to a tooth style belt to eliminate the pulley slippage issues?
I knew you wouldn't rest until you solved the problem, great job ! Been there done that. Keep it up
Obviously need to fix the tensioner issue on that Magnuson deal, but I have also had good luck making up to 20PSI on a ProCharged LS using an 8 rib with ZPE Griptec Pulleys
Try going to a bigger pulley on the tensioner. Will give the belt a bigger arc and also the pulley will run a bit slower
I was wondering what is your go to for the header sealant? I’ve used the Right stuff and it’s nearly impossible to remove the headers in the car
Question: When Kyle changed the headers, he used silicone as an exhaust mani gasket? Why? Wouldnt it be easier, and more efficient to use a mls gasket? Being as they are nearly infinitely reuseable, and wouldnt require cleaning anything off the head when you remove them, why would you not? And what kind of silicone are you using as an exhaust manifold gasket, thats actually holding up?
Red high Temp rtv will hold up just fine
@legros731 a reusable metal gasket just seems like it would be so much easier when you have to R&R headers. No scraping off rtv, and actually on these engines, it would be just pull it off, do nothing, and put them back on.
Seems that a larger OD tensioner pulley will help as well.
My bet was a coil or something feeding junk through the block. Cool info.
wonder if a bigger diameter tensioner wheel would work , though it does cause more centrifugal force causing the belt to move away from it
Yeah but those are the type of lessons you'll never forget. That hall effect and magnetic pickups or wired differently. I didn't know how but I knew somehow that signal was being grounded by the motor. Now we all know it's in the harness.
The shield must be grounded on one end and open on the other so there is no circuit. When connected on both ends, a current can flow through the shield and induce current into a sensor wire.
You could use/benefit from an optical tach pickup on the blower pulley when you're testing belt driven blower combos.
Ta--Daaa a bad ground/incorrect ground.... I am glad he found it . That is the kind of detail that this industry refuses to pay for . Knowledge is a Very valuable thing.
Boost rise on Magnuson do to because they are (TVS2650) roots-blowers, non twin screws like Whipple or Kenne Bell. Big difference in tech. Roots is a blower, not a compresor like twin screw.
It seems a missed opportunity to flip the supercharger around then you've removed a few points of failure. On a sand rail the inlet orientation shouldn't be a problem?
Thats awsome you found it.
signal return or sensor grounds are filtered, i.e. the ground is actually biased a few tenths high off true zero so it eliminates noise that is always present in 12v systems. cam and crank are then usually also shielded also.. keep on truckin,' great stuff here buddy..
so I have never worked with a ribbed/serpentine belt on a blower, but is there a reason not to have a narrow cogged belt? Now is time to work on a tensioner that uses some "boost reference" help? as is, belt wouldn't last one trip up the hill...
I work for plant facilities and did eletrical and Instrumentation and night clerk would ask what you all did on that job. They would fill out quick report. We sometimes had loose wire or burn fuse. What I did not like about it was the report never said 2 hours of work back and forth to the top floor and cell house to find the problem. Sometimes I wish I was back in maintenance because most of the time you could see the problem when you took it apart. Trouble shooting eletrical stuff will whip you azz sometimes.
You just added one more tool to your tool belt of knowledge with the wiring issue. Having the ability to read scope data and turn the sensor off the car were good data points used to solve the problem. I appreciate the content.
I’m glad you show all this stuff so people see that It doesn’t matter who you are stuff happens and everyone has to work through it. I work on diesels and we run into so weird stuff too like pressed on cam lobes and a lobe spinning on a pumping injector lol
Man that stage 2.5 ls just has MLS hg? At that power level wouldnt it be better to go with o-ring and copper hg as those ls kinda known for hg issues?
Yeah but that's more work for them causing the engine to be above stage 2 or 2.5.
If i was spending 25-30k on an engine i would spring the extra few grand for the added hg insurance the hoops and copper gasket gets you. Just my opinion. I know MLS gaskets have come a long way too. Wonder if it has the upgraded half inch headstuds.
Great build guys I’m so impressed. I would love to have one of those in my 69 c10 cruising. My god. Thanks guys. And merry Christmas.
When you use sealant instead of gaskets on the exhaust flanges, is that used just for dyno pulls or can it be used on a drag car for 1/4 mile pulls?
Use do it on my wagon and other cars
Yep... 100% knew it..
Glad you figured it out..
That trips me out using rtv for exhaust manifold gasket.
When I see the belts whipping or "vibrating" when RPMs start climbing, it makes me wonder why there aren't one or two additional pulleys. Not to add more tension, but to simply contain the belts movement and maintain the belts straightness.
I'd draw you a picture, but....... I'm viewing with my phone. 😁
Not surprised about the sensor issue. Seems like half the time electrical gremlins are caused by improper or insufficient grounding.
Thanks for explaining all the little silly things... I've been working on cars for almost 30 years now..and I still learn new things watching these videos!
So it was creating to much noise is what we mechanics say, reason for the shielded wire, Gm uses a lot of that in there harnesses for audio …. Never thought of that on a crank trigger
With the picoscope you are able to see the ground differential . With fueltech scope nope .
The difference is between the negative side and a shield ground.
Why no gasket on the headers ? And what are u using? Please.
Larger diameter pulley on the tensioner would help
How would you prevent belt slip in a sand car? Maybe I’m overthinking it but wouldn’t a belt driven blower be a terrible idea with constant sand in the belt constantly slipping and throwing off the tune?
For sure one of your best uploads yet!
I knew it was a wiring problem. I’m glad you figured it out.
Gizmos are not for the faint hearted. Points and carburetors worked great for many decades. They always got me there and back with a few basic hand tools and a flashlight if needed.
i have junk good cars because of electrical troubles. and over the years i learned if everything works but then when you try it right and it dont. its a ground problem. 99% of the time and i know i couldnt have figured out what ground it was but i did know it was a ground problem. i think i may have even said that in the last video.
The shield on a cable should never be used as a conductive path end to end. RE There should be zero current on the shield as only one end should be connected to main ground. The point of a shield is to drain off any stray voltage so it does not affect signals coming from the sensor.
A hall effect sensor will have a power source, signal out and sensor ground.
A reluctor type would have 2 wires for the coil. Polarity matters here as the ECU is looking for a rising or falling portion of the AC wave. Reversing polarity will cause a shift in timing.
Another great interesting vid guys 😊
Good job, as a mechanic my self I know it's all about starting simple. thats the best way to start working it out. And don't give up, you will kick your self when U find out how simple it was.
Not the ground, ground as the ground. Had me cracking up.
😅😅😅
I found the green backed belts slip compared to a 10 rib(10pk) gates belt with no slip. Seems the green back belts like big pulleys and are too stiff for smaller pulleys. Just my experience on a Vortech assisted 363 Windsor to 7,500rpm