I describe it as, it can take more than once to learn some simple (painless) things but it only takes once when it's as painful as what they went through (like hitting your thumb with a hammer)...
45 хвилин тому
Some people do , and some people just make it over and over again . We call them Morons ! lol
I stopped the video in the middle to say... That 3d printed engine block spark plug holder is cool azz sh!t! We now return to our regularly scheduled program.
When my dad had his sandrail with a Porsche 928 S4 that had 4 dual 48 mm webers and a Indy car transmission with a trigger fire ignition it took so long to get it to run right because it would rev so fast that it would lose the ignition timing. He got tired of it and traded it to Geiser Bros and they were able to get it going and ran it in Baja to play with and was the fastest thing I had ever drove. It’s such an awesome time to be alive and watching your videos.
@@davidg3944 a very bold choice considering the 928 V8 was literally the worst engine Porsche ever made lol. Even Porsche people do engine swaps in those cars.
Since I'm in car audio biz and every customer for last 30 years who had a problem brought car in and said "I think it's a loose wire".... I was going to comment that as a joke ...so loose.... pinned wrong close enough....lol
I had a conversion with Chris over at Torqstorm on the "Green" belts after throwing two belts, they are heavy duty belts made to go around large pullies, because of their stiffness they have a hard time going around small diameter pullies which can cause slippage or derailment. I switched over to a standard Gates automotive belt and never had an issue again.
I'm been a Maintenance Technician for close to 30 years...and I have seen problems with the "shielding" with sensors before. But, most of it is 110 ac stuff.
In grad school I designed gas sensors that operated down in the nanoamp a million times smaller than a miliamp) range and had some issues with my measurements. Turns out my cellphone if too close to the set-up would get though my shielding and saturate the measurement system, lol. I had to go back and design better shielding on top of the normal precautions, lol.
Some sensors require a special sensor ground, not a general chassis ground to the battery. It’s a ground that goes straight to the control module for clean sensor signal. Most sensors can be on a sensor ground network and some need a dedicated single ground wire to the computer. It just reduces interference from any other stuff on the engine like ignition system and electric motors
The sensors I've worked with depending on the vendor, you had to pay attention to the shield and the best way to test it was to lift the shield out of the ecm because they were typically a twisted pair set with a sheild. Sometimes, you could swap parts, sensors and harnesses and create a ground loop from the couple strnadd of shield wire making contact at both ends, which introduced an entire new rabbit hole. I understand this case was likely a simple miss-wire in the harness used, not being pinned out the same.
Question: When Kyle changed the headers, he used silicone as an exhaust mani gasket? Why? Wouldnt it be easier, and more efficient to use a mls gasket? Being as they are nearly infinitely reuseable, and wouldnt require cleaning anything off the head when you remove them, why would you not? And what kind of silicone are you using as an exhaust manifold gasket, thats actually holding up?
Stevo you the Man. It is your work ethics and compassion for your work and others that makes you the World class Engine builder you are. Have a great weekend and God bless your family and all at SME. Dewey says you rocked it Pops
I’m an old timer that we had hot rods n/a don’t know what it means but we were bad ass, you can’t give any information on what you were running. Thanks for the info you giving out. 70s nothing was on the internet. Bless you and your son and family ❤
It’s always something simple lol. I assumed it was wired right and I was looking for something that was canceling out the magnets on the wheel. But nothing made any sense so it being a wire that’s just normal day in paradise! Good work guys. Cain hard!
What kind of stuff are you using to seal the headers? And is it something I should be using instead of blowing gaskets? Dewey is awesome and knows. And glad you found the issue with that harness shield ground. Love this stuff. Thank You Jesus.
HEY STEVE this was my comment from other video: Steve you've got rpm when you're holding the sensor but not when the sensor is in it's holder. could the sensor wiring be incorrect between ECU and CKP plug? 3WIRE sensor W/a shield? By the symptoms it looks like noisy / dirty / unshielded wiring. WOW this is a head scratcher.
You guys need to make the jump to Whipple GenVI 3L's... they've got way more potential than these Magnuson 2650's... plus they make instantaneous full boost and keep it to redline....at least for your "stage 2.5 and 3 kits", jump to their larger displacement screws if needed, like their monster 8.3L 😅
Yeah but those are the type of lessons you'll never forget. That hall effect and magnetic pickups or wired differently. I didn't know how but I knew somehow that signal was being grounded by the motor. Now we all know it's in the harness.
The mind bogles, Great you sorted it, but just strange, was that a newly fitted harness on the dyno ? or was it the first time you have used that type of sensor on your dynos ?
Like I said on your last video, it was a ground loop. I’ve only seen it one other time and like I said before that was on a caterpillar diesel I’ve had to reverse engineer so many different things so many different systems define problems from mechanical to electrical. But at least you guys were able to find the problem.
"pretty easily solvable" EASY ONCE YOU FIND IT!!! Man don't sell yourself short. As a technician in the communications industry, (High speed Data, Data transmission, fiber optics etc) I had many problems kick my rear end for hours, even days, and when the problem was found it was like "oh yeah, that's it". and by the way, in case someone thinks I was just a dummy, I had almost 40 years in the industry. I knew what I was doing. My pay scale reflected that. but I still can't afford the LSX to put in my pure stock corvette. 😪😁
It certainly isn't Dewey's fault. LOL Figured it was a wiring issue since it ran in the car but you mentioning you replaced the harness and checked continuity is what kept the fingers away from the keyboard. Still chomping at the bit for the upcoming Gen III Hemi videos. Cheers!
Say thats a nice lookin hoodie looks good on you i just got a black one that looks better on me lets start an exclusive club. The SM hoodies thats the name of our new club whadda u think ? Steve toss it round and let me know
I ordered a master cylinder, then got impatient and went to O'Reily's and got a second one before the first arrived. The actual problem was the parking brake was on. I even skipped some social events.
Why have we not switch to fully eletric blowers yet? I mean, we got the required data in real time from the controller, why not pair it with a fully eletric driven blower so that way your not takeing away from the power of the motor to drive the blower. Seems like folks are missing out.
The electricity has to come from somewhere. Without adding more batteries, it would come from the alternator, which would then pull the same amount of power (or more because of efficiency) as the blower. Im sure there could be benefits but not sure they would outweigh the cons.
You need ~100kW to drive a blower like that to max, that means either a significant battery bank or a massive alternator which you have to drive with the engine anyway. Ain't no free lunch...
i have junk good cars because of electrical troubles. and over the years i learned if everything works but then when you try it right and it dont. its a ground problem. 99% of the time and i know i couldnt have figured out what ground it was but i did know it was a ground problem. i think i may have even said that in the last video.
39 хвилин тому
If you lowered the top Pulley on lsx concepts plate it would make the tensioner work where it is and give the belt more clearance from the thermostat housing too .
The belt was slipping with first pulley set up. And slipped earlier after you flipped pulleys because 18psi ish hits earlier. So original pulley set up with no slip will boost more then 18psi I bet. Obviously you see it as well
Steve, I hate to admit this but, I have been made a fool several times by just one wire. Electrical troubleshooting is the highest flat rate in a shop because it’s illusive
You can see the Belt slip on the Tacho during the runs , From around 6500 it slows the ramp up and even dropped back a bit then picks up towards 7k when the belt grabs again .
42 хвилини тому
I paused to write above post , then started it again and ya talked about it in the next pull ! Doh
Has the tensioner lost some of its spring tension? Or should I have asked if the tensioners lose tension over a period of time. Maybe you just proved to yourself that tensioners have a shelf life.
What we have here is a failure to communicate....
Some men, you just can't reach
And you get what we had here last week…..
@@dracer555 which is the way he wants it...... well >>
He gets it.
Damn it now I have to go watch cool hand luke. Sometimes nothing beats a real cool hand. 👍
The thing about problems is you learn and never make the same mistake twice.. that will never be a problem again
I describe it as, it can take more than once to learn some simple (painless) things but it only takes once when it's as painful as what they went through (like hitting your thumb with a hammer)...
Some people do , and some people just make it over and over again . We call them Morons ! lol
I stopped the video in the middle to say...
That 3d printed engine block spark plug holder is cool azz sh!t!
We now return to our regularly scheduled program.
8:34 its cool to have video footage to look back on and catch the belt pushing away from the tensioner on the bottom left of the engine
😮
Luv the Dewey action. Glad he is QCing the whole tune and troubleshooting. Bring in the big nose to sniff out the wire.
I said Dewey would get that Ford running ❤️🐕❤️
When my dad had his sandrail with a Porsche 928 S4 that had 4 dual 48 mm webers and a Indy car transmission with a trigger fire ignition it took so long to get it to run right because it would rev so fast that it would lose the ignition timing. He got tired of it and traded it to Geiser Bros and they were able to get it going and ran it in Baja to play with and was the fastest thing I had ever drove. It’s such an awesome time to be alive and watching your videos.
A 928 V8 is a pretty exotic choice!
@@davidg3944 a very bold choice considering the 928 V8 was literally the worst engine Porsche ever made lol. Even Porsche people do engine swaps in those cars.
Steve your dog has probably saw more motor builds then most humans 😊good pup
Since I'm in car audio biz and every customer for last 30 years who had a problem brought car in and said "I think it's a loose wire".... I was going to comment that as a joke ...so loose.... pinned wrong close enough....lol
I had a conversion with Chris over at Torqstorm on the "Green" belts after throwing two belts, they are heavy duty belts made to go around large pullies, because of their stiffness they have a hard time going around small diameter pullies which can cause slippage or derailment. I switched over to a standard Gates automotive belt and never had an issue again.
I'm been a Maintenance Technician for close to 30 years...and I have seen problems with the "shielding" with sensors before. But, most of it is 110 ac stuff.
You not work with robots? Encoder cables are big for having issues with ti
In grad school I designed gas sensors that operated down in the nanoamp a million times smaller than a miliamp) range and had some issues with my measurements.
Turns out my cellphone if too close to the set-up would get though my shielding and saturate the measurement system, lol.
I had to go back and design better shielding on top of the normal precautions, lol.
That 427 is a torque monster too.
I was on the right track, you created a ground loop?
Nope. Wired wrong, signal taken to ground.
Some sensors require a special sensor ground, not a general chassis ground to the battery. It’s a ground that goes straight to the control module for clean sensor signal. Most sensors can be on a sensor ground network and some need a dedicated single ground wire to the computer. It just reduces interference from any other stuff on the engine like ignition system and electric motors
The sensors I've worked with depending on the vendor, you had to pay attention to the shield and the best way to test it was to lift the shield out of the ecm because they were typically a twisted pair set with a sheild. Sometimes, you could swap parts, sensors and harnesses and create a ground loop from the couple strnadd of shield wire making contact at both ends, which introduced an entire new rabbit hole. I understand this case was likely a simple miss-wire in the harness used, not being pinned out the same.
Question: When Kyle changed the headers, he used silicone as an exhaust mani gasket? Why? Wouldnt it be easier, and more efficient to use a mls gasket? Being as they are nearly infinitely reuseable, and wouldnt require cleaning anything off the head when you remove them, why would you not? And what kind of silicone are you using as an exhaust manifold gasket, thats actually holding up?
Stevo you the Man. It is your work ethics and compassion for your work and others that makes you the World class Engine builder you are. Have a great weekend and God bless your family and all at SME. Dewey says you rocked it Pops
Boost referenced belt tensioner adds tension as boost goes up so u don’t always have excessive tension when not needed
Figured between this & the one that broke you’re dyno, all the BB Fords will be kicked out!
So now you know😂😂 Glad y’all got it figured out 👍👍
I’m an old timer that we had hot rods n/a don’t know what it means but we were bad ass, you can’t give any information on what you were running. Thanks for the info you giving out. 70s nothing was on the internet. Bless you and your son and family ❤
It’s always something simple lol. I assumed it was wired right and I was looking for something that was canceling out the magnets on the wheel. But nothing made any sense so it being a wire that’s just normal day in paradise! Good work guys. Cain hard!
Dewey says that tuneup was Spot on🥇
I'm not so sure. That side eye he gave makes me think he was questioning the timing mark on the strap
Told ya! 😂 I run into that stuff on injected generators all the time! I hate em! Good job.
What kind of stuff are you using to seal the headers? And is it something I should be using instead of blowing gaskets?
Dewey is awesome and knows.
And glad you found the issue with that harness shield ground.
Love this stuff.
Thank You Jesus.
Glad you figured it out. So it was wired properly in the car but not on the dyno wiring harness? Bet you won t let that issue bite you again.
Not surprised at all. Thanks for being stupidly honest!!
I noticed that upper radiator hose has a flaw, or burn mark on top!
Clear as mud... Thanks for sharing.
Steve I love how Kyle came in and dropped the truth bomb on you then left 😂😂
My bet was a coil or something feeding junk through the block. Cool info.
I have found when you have a problem that stumps you that bad you will always remember it and never suffer from it again
Think it would be super cool if you break down your engine stages and combos and the differences
HEY STEVE this was my comment from other video: Steve you've got rpm when you're holding the sensor but not when the sensor is in it's holder. could the sensor wiring be incorrect between ECU and CKP plug? 3WIRE sensor W/a shield?
By the symptoms it looks like noisy / dirty / unshielded wiring. WOW this is a head scratcher.
You guys need to make the jump to Whipple GenVI 3L's... they've got way more potential than these Magnuson 2650's... plus they make instantaneous full boost and keep it to redline....at least for your "stage 2.5 and 3 kits", jump to their larger displacement screws if needed, like their monster 8.3L 😅
We all get older every day Steve and if we are lucky we have a kid like Kyle to carry on the family business. He's a great and smart son!
Is that blower belt rubbing on the thermostat housing?
You did a good job isolating the disc, but the bolts also needed plastic washers under the heads. Metal washers under the heads made continuity.
Yeah but those are the type of lessons you'll never forget. That hall effect and magnetic pickups or wired differently. I didn't know how but I knew somehow that signal was being grounded by the motor. Now we all know it's in the harness.
Long story short: don’t use the shield wire as a conductor
Actually you are suppose to ground one end of the shield
@ that’s right, that’s how a shield works. I said don’t use it as a conductor
@@waylonrichter1253 long story short, read the manual. There are pictures fur frog sakes too
Steve and Kyle, y'all rock! Love the channel and content. Peace 🤘
The mind bogles, Great you sorted it, but just strange, was that a newly fitted harness on the dyno ? or was it the first time you have used that type of sensor on your dynos ?
Always learning!
The difference is between the negative side and a shield ground.
Like I said on your last video, it was a ground loop. I’ve only seen it one other time and like I said before that was on a caterpillar diesel I’ve had to reverse engineer so many different things so many different systems define problems from mechanical to electrical. But at least you guys were able to find the problem.
I have tached the blower drive vs driven to read belt slip on v belt set ups.
I would love to just follow these two around for the day. I'd have to bring 2 note books with me lol
Larger diameter pulley on the tensioner would help
Imagine that! 1 freaking wire..... had to be something silly like that!! Wires and belts.. always something.
"pretty easily solvable" EASY ONCE YOU FIND IT!!! Man don't sell yourself short. As a technician in the communications industry, (High speed Data, Data transmission, fiber optics etc) I had many problems kick my rear end for hours, even days, and when the problem was found it was like "oh yeah, that's it". and by the way, in case someone thinks I was just a dummy, I had almost 40 years in the industry. I knew what I was doing. My pay scale reflected that. but I still can't afford the LSX to put in my pure stock corvette. 😪😁
It certainly isn't Dewey's fault. LOL Figured it was a wiring issue since it ran in the car but you mentioning you replaced the harness and checked continuity is what kept the fingers away from the keyboard. Still chomping at the bit for the upcoming Gen III Hemi videos. Cheers!
Ok, I don't live too far from you guys. I'm gonna bring my dog up there so you can teach him how to read plugs like Dewey... He's so cool...
For sure one of your best uploads yet!
Thats awsome you found it.
I knew you wouldn't rest until you solved the problem, great job ! Been there done that. Keep it up
That trips me out using rtv for exhaust manifold gasket.
Say thats a nice lookin hoodie looks good on you i just got a black one that looks better on me lets start an exclusive club. The SM hoodies thats the name of our new club whadda u think ? Steve toss it round and let me know
Man that stage 2.5 ls just has MLS hg? At that power level wouldnt it be better to go with o-ring and copper hg as those ls kinda known for hg issues?
Another great interesting vid guys 😊
I ordered a master cylinder, then got impatient and went to O'Reily's and got a second one before the first arrived. The actual problem was the parking brake was on. I even skipped some social events.
Old Bubba walked up 'bout that time and said, "Hey, didn't ya no yo parking brake be on?"
Great build guys I’m so impressed. I would love to have one of those in my 69 c10 cruising. My god. Thanks guys. And merry Christmas.
A learning moment. Appreciate that you share these things.
IM VERY HAPPY YOU FIGURED OUT WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THE ENGINE NOT RUNNING , THATS A ABSOLUTE BEAR THAT IT WOULDN'T START AND RUN
Why have we not switch to fully eletric blowers yet? I mean, we got the required data in real time from the controller, why not pair it with a fully eletric driven blower so that way your not takeing away from the power of the motor to drive the blower. Seems like folks are missing out.
The electricity has to come from somewhere. Without adding more batteries, it would come from the alternator, which would then pull the same amount of power (or more because of efficiency) as the blower.
Im sure there could be benefits but not sure they would outweigh the cons.
You need ~100kW to drive a blower like that to max, that means either a significant battery bank or a massive alternator which you have to drive with the engine anyway. Ain't no free lunch...
😅😅😅
You always know what makes good content!
If the problem was your harness, you should not even charge half…
i have junk good cars because of electrical troubles. and over the years i learned if everything works but then when you try it right and it dont. its a ground problem. 99% of the time and i know i couldnt have figured out what ground it was but i did know it was a ground problem. i think i may have even said that in the last video.
If you lowered the top Pulley on lsx concepts plate it would make the tensioner work where it is and give the belt more clearance from the thermostat housing too .
Glad you sorted it out!
Damn. I called it on the last video. Sensor ground issue.
Try going to a bigger pulley on the tensioner. Will give the belt a bigger arc and also the pulley will run a bit slower
Not the ground, ground as the ground. Had me cracking up.
😅😅😅
That belt routing design is seriously well done.
The belt was slipping with first pulley set up. And slipped earlier after you flipped pulleys because 18psi ish hits earlier. So original pulley set up with no slip will boost more then 18psi I bet. Obviously you see it as well
cool, looks like chain rise effect on the belt.
If I understand it was not having a wired ground and having a common ground (dirty signal)
You could use/benefit from an optical tach pickup on the blower pulley when you're testing belt driven blower combos.
You and David Freiburger should get together and do a newer version of engine Masters that would be incredible
Good job!
You boys ROCK even though I do crack on them ford motors
Make a Ford SML version. Do you hear that ford. Sounds amazing
holy crap i was close with my prediction on the last video
Steve, I hate to admit this but, I have been made a fool several times by just one wire.
Electrical troubleshooting is the highest flat rate in a shop because it’s illusive
So cool to see how that belt stretched!
Ground loop on the shield. Hmm.
GOOD THAT YOUR MAN FOUND IT .
You can see the Belt slip on the Tacho during the runs , From around 6500 it slows the ramp up and even dropped back a bit then picks up towards 7k when the belt grabs again .
I paused to write above post , then started it again and ya talked about it in the next pull ! Doh
1 3/4"? We ran 2" on a carbed 460 ford wirh kinda big valves. It was violent! 😂
Has the tensioner lost some of its spring tension? Or should I have asked if the tensioners lose tension over a period of time. Maybe you just proved to yourself that tensioners have a shelf life.
See, I told you so!!!!
Knew it. Classic ground loop problem.
I got that one wrong..some of these dudes are so smart
The sand car engine will be using an air filter, will that change the tune or will it be minimal.
Good news is, you will never have that problem again
Thanks I think I understand now! --Wait WHAT???
Vals Camero... Kevin... What's up? Not a word from either end! Starting to get worried!
You learn and never forget hopefully.
Nice work Steve 💯
Eddy current problems
Glad you got it figured out. Ignore my last e mail. LOL
Have stopped mid way. There was the flash lower left of the engine on de-cell on the first pull. About 8.40 time stamp.
AT LEAST YOU FOUND IT .