I'm really liking these recent videos. The down to earth and affordable aspects of Hi-Fi are too often overlooked. In my listening room the addition of acoustic panels in key locations made a major improvement to the listening experience. A bigger improvement than any change to the electronic gear has ever provided.
I bought quite a few panels from Addictive Sound in Poland, excellent value for money and very effective. Knuaf/Rockwall is the best stuff for room treatment.
actually, it isn't. The problem with that stuff is the absorption coefficient curve is NOT for acoustic treatment. It's for noise absorption and hot/cold insulation within a wall cavity. There is something that a lot of people don't know about or don't factor into what materials they use. There is a Fletcher Munsen hearing curve and it essentially is a graph of how we hear. With a very critical area that absorption materials for mid's and high's differ. Most acoustic treatment for mid's and high's absorb pretty much the same once they get to about 500hz, where they differ is in the 125hz to 500hz. Open Cell foams, if they are designed properly have a nice slope from 125hz to 500hz. Building insulation tends to not have this nice smooth slope. They tend to over absorb in that range and if you have a lot of room coverage, it's sounds worse. the best open cell foam I've found is made by Acoustic Fields. They spent a LOT or time/money in R&D to get the absorption coefficient curved nailed as close as they could get to match up with the Fletcher Munsen hearing curve.. They have gone into studios that were using building insulation like you're using and replaced it with their foam and the studio owners changed immediately because they could do their mixes a lot better and quicker because they were hearing things properly. I know you may not want to hear this, but seriously, building insulation like rock wool, Corning 703, etc. etc. was NOT designed for acoustic treatment for music and voice. It was for thermal insulation from hot/cold, and noise absorption for wall cavities. Plus, some of that stuff is toxic.
Thanks. Great comments. I struggle with tile floor and one side wall is all glass. I tried making the glass wall the front wall. That didn't work because the speakers ended up too wide apart and I was getting weird imaging (drummer had giant long hands). Will get more rugs from Ikea after seeing your video.
Here's a product specifically made for sliding glass doors or windows. You can get it with fabric of your choosing. www.acousticfields.com/product/sound-absorbing-panels-for-windows/ I'm sure you can put a frame around acoustic foam and figure out a way to cover a window when you go into listening mode and remove when you need to…. Just a thought.
Hey men. I moved into a new flat and sound is awful. Just like you mentioned I have concrete walls and wood flooring. I already took some measures to "try" to improve it but failed miserably twice... any change we could hop pinto a quick chat and someone like you with way more experience could help me on this subject?
Good video. I've got a question about the placement of your acoustics panels on your walls: did you place them randomly or did you choose a specific height and width on your walls?
this series of cheap but effective audio hacks these last few weeks are fantastic John, Thanks! :-) a review of your Harbeth Compact ES3's would be welcome aswell, definitely since you have The Schiit Vidar at home (as do I:-))
Hey John . It's always entertaining watching your videos as well as inspiring to have your kind of attitude towards audio. I have a question after watching these wall panels. Instead can one opt for painting canvas and achieve the same result s too?
One side of my room has glass along most of the wall. I don’t know what I can do acoustically about that without blocking the light or view. Any suggestions?
White curtains? Or get a rigid panel with foots. Put it in the first reflection point when listening and hide it somewhere the rest of the time. Or live with it. That's what I do.
Is phantom centre effect/focus increased? Any reduction to soundstage? Can you do more videos please on acoustics? As you say room a massive component maybe 50% of what we hear yet we all place faith in shiny new gear rather than the room!
I'm not sure what you mean by phantom center effect but, the most important part of treatment is first reflections. You'll actually get an increase in soundstage size as well as imaging being more focused. I've treated every room I've ever had and I think its one of the most cost effective ways of improving the sound of your system.
Hi John, very nice video. Those EQ Acoustics panels are L5 or L10?. How did you hang them on the wall, with the Flexi Blocks system?. I see you also installed bass traps, those are the EQ Acoustics foam bass traps?. Best regards.
I'm curious is that a Pro-ject Debut Carbon Espirit DS ? I bought one about a year and a half ago. I've been getting reacquainted with vinyl since I left it back in the eighties. I've done all I can think of to stop the rumble I'm getting. Any ideas ?
John Darko unfortunately not. Somebody told me once to buy paintings and to put light towels on the back...i don't think that this will work. It would be interesting to measure a room with a dirac and to see results because aesthetically would be great 🙂
John Darko ASC, GIK, RPG, Stillpoints Aperature. GIK is probably the most affordable, but with shipping you might want to check RPG since they're in Europe. www.rpgeurope.com/gallery/picture.php?/331/category/23&slideshow=
if you want expert advise on room acoustics. I found a company that seriously has the best products AND advice. Acoustic Fields. they have lots of educational videos, they also do cater to the DIYers so you can buy the build plans for most of their products if you have carpentry skills. As far as esthetics. it's always going to be a problem since room acoustics doesn't care about WAF. WAF isn't an acoustical treatment term…. :-) Yes, you can get some esthetically pleasing stuff, but you still have to be careful about things like Absorption Coefficients, placement and how much treatment you need, etc. The worst thing to do is GUESS as to what you need. That will waste time and money. It's better to get someone that will give you honest advice and hopefully give you a phased approach if you are on limited funds.. Also, stay away from using building insulation based products. I personally have used those types of products and have talked to others that have used that stuff and the problem is that it wasn't designed for room treatment for music and speech, it was designed for building insulation from heat and cold as well as NOISE absorption. With music and speech, there is a thing called a hearing curve. Fletcher Munsen has that hearing curve and if you look at a critical area between 125hz and 500hz, there is a nice smooth slope and what happens is that most building insulation products tend to over absorb and a lot of open cell foam products tend to under absorb. Yes, I have found an open cell foam that does have a nice absorption curve and it doesn't over absorb or under absorb even if you have a lot of coverage. Yes, you can put it in a wooden frame and cover it with fabric or your choosing to make it more esthetically pleasing. You can put them In a ladder arrangement that slides to open for windows and sliding glass doors when you aren't listening, and then slide the acoustic foam panel in front of glass to get better room acoustics. Glass is horrible for room acoustics, but most of us have rooms with glass windows and/or sliding doors we can't get rid of. FYI, no, I don't work for Acoustic Fields, I've just dealt with many different companies, have used a variety of different products, have interacted with several acoustic engineers, and Acoustic Fields had the best rooms I've ever heard and he'll give you honest and really good advice. But he is really patient, and he does know that people have limited budgets which is why he offers build plans for the DIYers. Most companies that sell pre-built units don't typically tell their customers how to build their products.. Good luck in your quest of better acoustics. It's an area that's greatly misunderstood, lots of myths that perpetrate misleading products.. Also, if ANY company tells you to stick acoustic foam in the corner of your room as a "bass trap" or tells you that acoustic foam is a diffusor because they cut it out to look like one, simply run away from that company. I'm not naming names but I have seen and heard there are a few companies that say this kind of nonsense and they are getting away with it and running all the way to the bank.
I'm really liking these recent videos. The down to earth and affordable aspects of Hi-Fi are too often overlooked. In my listening room the addition of acoustic panels in key locations made a major improvement to the listening experience. A bigger improvement than any change to the electronic gear has ever provided.
What were the key locations in your room?
Anyone who has Bowie and A Guy Called Gerald hanging on their wall is all right in my book. Your room was well thought out I can tell. Nice work
I bought quite a few panels from Addictive Sound in Poland, excellent value for money and very effective. Knuaf/Rockwall is the best stuff for room treatment.
actually, it isn't. The problem with that stuff is the absorption coefficient curve is NOT for acoustic treatment. It's for noise absorption and hot/cold insulation within a wall cavity.
There is something that a lot of people don't know about or don't factor into what materials they use. There is a Fletcher Munsen hearing curve and it essentially is a graph of how we hear. With a very critical area that absorption materials for mid's and high's differ. Most acoustic treatment for mid's and high's absorb pretty much the same once they get to about 500hz, where they differ is in the 125hz to 500hz. Open Cell foams, if they are designed properly have a nice slope from 125hz to 500hz. Building insulation tends to not have this nice smooth slope. They tend to over absorb in that range and if you have a lot of room coverage, it's sounds worse.
the best open cell foam I've found is made by Acoustic Fields. They spent a LOT or time/money in R&D to get the absorption coefficient curved nailed as close as they could get to match up with the Fletcher Munsen hearing curve..
They have gone into studios that were using building insulation like you're using and replaced it with their foam and the studio owners changed immediately because they could do their mixes a lot better and quicker because they were hearing things properly.
I know you may not want to hear this, but seriously, building insulation like rock wool, Corning 703, etc. etc. was NOT designed for acoustic treatment for music and voice. It was for thermal insulation from hot/cold, and noise absorption for wall cavities. Plus, some of that stuff is toxic.
We asked and he delivered. Thanks dude!
Thanks. Great comments. I struggle with tile floor and one side wall is all glass. I tried making the glass wall the front wall. That didn't work because the speakers ended up too wide apart and I was getting weird imaging (drummer had giant long hands). Will get more rugs from Ikea after seeing your video.
Here's a product specifically made for sliding glass doors or windows. You can get it with fabric of your choosing. www.acousticfields.com/product/sound-absorbing-panels-for-windows/
I'm sure you can put a frame around acoustic foam and figure out a way to cover a window when you go into listening mode and remove when you need to…. Just a thought.
As usual ,brilliant ,informative,nobody does this
Bookshelves or Record shelves always sort that echo also nice thick curtains.
Hey men. I moved into a new flat and sound is awful. Just like you mentioned I have concrete walls and wood flooring.
I already took some measures to "try" to improve it but failed miserably twice... any change we could hop pinto a quick chat and someone like you with way more experience could help me on this subject?
Good video. I've got a question about the placement of your acoustics panels on your walls: did you place them randomly or did you choose a specific height and width on your walls?
Hanging out for more 10min videos/reviews. Keep the excellent content coming
Review videos will resume after Christmas.
this series of cheap but effective audio hacks these last few weeks are fantastic John, Thanks! :-) a review of your Harbeth Compact ES3's would be welcome aswell, definitely since you have The Schiit Vidar at home (as do I:-))
Hey John . It's always entertaining watching your videos as well as inspiring to have your kind of attitude towards audio. I have a question after watching these wall panels. Instead can one opt for painting canvas and achieve the same result s too?
Binny Boy.
Only if u fill the frame of the painting with an acoustically absorbent material like Owens Corning 703 or Rockwool.
One side of my room has glass along most of the wall. I don’t know what I can do acoustically about that without blocking the light or view. Any suggestions?
White curtains?
Or get a rigid panel with foots. Put it in the first reflection point when listening and hide it somewhere the rest of the time.
Or live with it. That's what I do.
Thank you, another excellent, real world video.
Is phantom centre effect/focus increased? Any reduction to soundstage? Can you do more videos please on acoustics? As you say room a massive component maybe 50% of what we hear yet we all place faith in shiny new gear rather than the room!
I'm not sure what you mean by phantom center effect but, the most important part of treatment is first reflections. You'll actually get an increase in soundstage size as well as imaging being more focused. I've treated every room I've ever had and I think its one of the most cost effective ways of improving the sound of your system.
Beautiful 💥💥👌
That’s an amazing Bowie print. What’s it from?
Ordered via an Instagram ad.
Hi John, very nice video. Those EQ Acoustics panels are L5 or L10?. How did you hang them on the wall, with the Flexi Blocks system?. I see you also installed bass traps, those are the EQ Acoustics foam bass traps?. Best regards.
How did you install the EQ acoustics panels?
I have the same question haha and there is no info out there
How do you experience the EQ Acoustic (Spectrum 2.0 L10C ?) corner placed traps?
I'm curious is that a Pro-ject Debut Carbon Espirit DS ? I bought one about a year and a half ago. I've been getting reacquainted with vinyl since I left it back in the eighties. I've done all I can think of to stop the rumble I'm getting. Any ideas ?
Mine's a Rega Planar 2. Not sure about your Pro-Ject's rumble.
Maybe the platter bearing needs a lube.
Big challenge a good acoustic room and a aesthetically acceptable living room...
Dimitris Why? There are acoustic treatments for pretty much anyone's tastes these days, and panels you can have artwork printed on.
Got any examples of artwork-printed panels and - crucially - their pricing?
John Darko unfortunately not. Somebody told me once to buy paintings and to put light towels on the back...i don't think that this will work. It would be interesting to measure a room with a dirac and to see results because aesthetically would be great 🙂
John Darko ASC, GIK, RPG, Stillpoints Aperature. GIK is probably the most affordable, but with shipping you might want to check RPG since they're in Europe.
www.rpgeurope.com/gallery/picture.php?/331/category/23&slideshow=
I found this
gikacoustics.co.uk/product-category/acoustic-art-panels/
What about the plants
"What is this 'Has to look nice' idea?" - Average audiophile
Hello John, that floor lamp you got in background, where did you get that? It looks amazing and I would love to purchase one!
From IKEA.de
@@DarkoAudio OoOo. What's the diameter on that shade?
if you want expert advise on room acoustics. I found a company that seriously has the best products AND advice. Acoustic Fields. they have lots of educational videos, they also do cater to the DIYers so you can buy the build plans for most of their products if you have carpentry skills.
As far as esthetics. it's always going to be a problem since room acoustics doesn't care about WAF. WAF isn't an acoustical treatment term…. :-)
Yes, you can get some esthetically pleasing stuff, but you still have to be careful about things like Absorption Coefficients, placement and how much treatment you need, etc.
The worst thing to do is GUESS as to what you need. That will waste time and money. It's better to get someone that will give you honest advice and hopefully give you a phased approach if you are on limited funds..
Also, stay away from using building insulation based products. I personally have used those types of products and have talked to others that have used that stuff and the problem is that it wasn't designed for room treatment for music and speech, it was designed for building insulation from heat and cold as well as NOISE absorption. With music and speech, there is a thing called a hearing curve. Fletcher Munsen has that hearing curve and if you look at a critical area between 125hz and 500hz, there is a nice smooth slope and what happens is that most building insulation products tend to over absorb and a lot of open cell foam products tend to under absorb. Yes, I have found an open cell foam that does have a nice absorption curve and it doesn't over absorb or under absorb even if you have a lot of coverage. Yes, you can put it in a wooden frame and cover it with fabric or your choosing to make it more esthetically pleasing. You can put them In a ladder arrangement that slides to open for windows and sliding glass doors when you aren't listening, and then slide the acoustic foam panel in front of glass to get better room acoustics. Glass is horrible for room acoustics, but most of us have rooms with glass windows and/or sliding doors we can't get rid of.
FYI, no, I don't work for Acoustic Fields, I've just dealt with many different companies, have used a variety of different products, have interacted with several acoustic engineers, and Acoustic Fields had the best rooms I've ever heard and he'll give you honest and really good advice. But he is really patient, and he does know that people have limited budgets which is why he offers build plans for the DIYers. Most companies that sell pre-built units don't typically tell their customers how to build their products..
Good luck in your quest of better acoustics. It's an area that's greatly misunderstood, lots of myths that perpetrate misleading products..
Also, if ANY company tells you to stick acoustic foam in the corner of your room as a "bass trap" or tells you that acoustic foam is a diffusor because they cut it out to look like one, simply run away from that company. I'm not naming names but I have seen and heard there are a few companies that say this kind of nonsense and they are getting away with it and running all the way to the bank.
Bowie’s watching,
Problem is pro room treatments can get $$$
It took me four YEARS, and now I'm the weakest link in my Audio system.......