Had a GT380 back in the day. Later model than yours it had single front disc, It was silver, 1975 or 6 can't remember. Loved that bike, only problem I had was a failed rear sprocket carrier bearing & a set of points where a tip came off. Not a lot of ground clearance. Sold it for a T140V Bonneville, which had never ending problems. My 380's claim to fame was towing my brother's Norton Commando home from the Isle of Man over the M62. Try doing that today!
I can still recall a not too long ago comment by a Norton owner at some far away rally in Belgium that my then Honda VT500 was boringly reliable - and yes it boringly too me all the way back to Blighty fully loaded with wet camping gear in the rain, oh on one tank of fuel. Quite how many of those traditional kick starting old thumpers made it back I'll never know!
I do know a lot of people with well built and well maintained Brit bikes that are completely reliable. I do think that saying a machine is boringly reliable a very odd thing to say as there is no fun in breaking down.
@@oldguyinshed1703 They where actually produced as aftermarket stuff at the time and could give your mother in law a heart attack but I do not know how effective they actually where. They looked fantastic though. 😎
My first bike was a 75 GT380 that I bought as a leftover in 76, In around 80 I bought a Guzzi 850-T and since then have owned a bunch and still do. I also have a Bennell 250 2c like the one you are leaning on that I'm trying to get back on the road here in the USA. I would love to ride a GT380 again. I remember it having almost no vibration, would grind things in corners and drank a lot of gas compared to my friends on their CB350's. I but 10K on the 380 t in one year never really going anywhere, just ridding around. I have been looking for one for years but they do not turn uo often. Cheers. I think the Italians just had , have a passion for their motorcycles, while the British companies in the 70's where run by the Bean counter's and it was more about profit then bikes.
You sound like a man after my own heart, and the bean counters of the world have a lot to answer for, as to the 380 you have got it spot on, thirsty but fun.
Wow, this brings back memories. I had a blue 380 and it was amazing. Remember massive wheelies up Queen St in Auckland back in the day. Awful ground clearance, and a bit tingly, but otherwise comfortable - mine had a calfskin seat. Big issue with centre cylinder overheating if mixture wasn't right.
@@oldguyinshed1703 In my case, the air inlet hose came loose on the centre carb, on a long trip, and the centre piston ended up getting holed. At least parts were cheap and repairs were easy.
This is something like apples vs oranges .. V-twin 4 stroke, disk brakes, shaft drive vs two somoker, chain and drums. I have always been 'a cruising around' type of rider and I am a big fan of shaft drives on small bikes. Bikes like BMW r 26 or AWO 425 /250cc both/ With shaft drives and Longitudinal singles. Love them, love the Gucci too.
You are right about the differences but they were both middle weight bikes of the same era, It was always a bone of contention as to which would serve the owner best even though in truth we mostly buy with our hearts not our heads
It always surprises me how many guzzis survive, the percentage of survivors against numbers produced is quite high when compared with many other marques. This I believe is because they are bought by people who keep them for many years.
One point you might have added is that the Suzuki 380 could be bought in most towns of average size whereas the guzzi had a much smaller distribution network. I had a 550 for a while and loved it. There is something about 3 cylinder engines that is just right. MF 35 for example! Moto Guzzi could be compared to Harley Davidson perhaps. Both outdated and, compared to the Japanese products, primitive but ultimately successful. You raised a lot of interesting points..... perhaps survival of some of these companies came down to the loyalty of the domestic market.
You are right of course the distribution network of all the Japanese makes was outstanding and all part of the mentioned onslaught, I was concentrating more on the style and youth appeal of the two machines. I totally agree with your comment about home market loyalty and I guess that is what I meant when I said the Brit bike management treated the home youth market with contempt and that was part of the downfall.
It's interesting to note that those were between the first trasverse V that Guzzi produced, before it was only about single cilinder, Guzzi with Benelli were just bought by DeTommaso, the same of the sportscar, who wanted to innovate at least as far as the engine goes, and they experimented with many different ideas; while now the v engine is pretty much Guzzi trademark
I guess I’m a bit biased, I’ve never ridden a Guzzi & I found a GT185 for 200$ four or five years back. Got it running then ordered chambers from higgs. For such a tiny machine it really hauls themail! Ever since I have been looking for a GT550 but they dont come up for salevery often. That is a real beauty 380 you have there, I love the 1st year of GT’s with the drum front👌
My wife passed her motorbike test on a GT185 and we both have fond memories of a great little bike, I like the look of the drum brake on the earlier bikes and as they are twin leading shoe work really well. Thanks for the comment.
I remember the v50 described as a bit underpowered, a similar 350 must be a bit `steady`. not that it would worry me - I ride a himalayan in my 70th year. I had a gt380 in texaco heron barry sheene style with 3 expansion chambers. I had to push it down the street a bit before starting up on a morning! I gave a guy thumbing a lift on the A1 a ride back to London, and he was quite distressed when he got off...
I like the idea of a guy getting distressed on a bike he must have been a front runner for the snowflakes. The v35 is very steady but it is a bike that will get you to where you want to go without drama (or distress) I bet you were the boy with a 380 fitted with expansion chambers and Heron colours
I love an exchange of arguments too, and here you have one. As a great lover of British cars and bikes and being about the same age as, Old Guy in Shed, I have seen the crumbling down of a world leading industry in the UK which is now almost completely gone. In Europe Germany has taken over their place and very successfully so. It is very regretful that this could happen and was caused by, imho, the take over of the management by the bean counters who took the place of the engineers and the pioneers who started these companies in the first place. Take any case you like and compare it to a German or even an Italian competitor. The British management never had any money for development and wasted it on inefficiency. They never had the patience and courage to sit out a downturn in business whereas the competition stuck to it and tried to innovate themselves out of the crisis. Take Guzzi, being a world leader in motorcycle manufacture themselves at some point, they went through many crises and were several times on the brink of insolvency. Somehow they kept hanging in there and stuck to their proven concept of succes like their v-twins, in some way a bit like BMW, or Harley but way more modern than the latter. In a difficult time there was always an other entrepreneur to support with a daring vision and with new innovations in engineering, the small Guzzi v-twins are a great example of this, carried the company forward. A similar comparison can be made between MG with its great pedigree , and Porsche with their rear mounted boxer engines who never gave up to become a great succes, whereas in the 50/60`s MG had better cars than Porsche. At he moment I own an MGB roadster and a Guzzi 1100 california and a V35 Imola.
I think there were many more factors at the time of the UK demise such as union disputes that were more political than economic, the inability of management to maneuver quickly to market changes and demands. Moto Guzzi as an example were in receivership when the company was bought by DeTomaso, for not a lot of money at the time, he had the Guzzi factory building the four stroke multi cylinder engines for Benelli that he already owned this was in addition to his supercar factory. This shows and ability to shift resources quickly and efficiently. He also was shrewd enough to sell Guzzi, having got it into profit, to Aprillia for mega money only for them to struggle to survive until the Piaggio brothers bought Aprillia and took over Guzzi at the same time. Again this ability to move shows that manufacturing requires a very sharp mind for both tradition and accounting, sadly we are now seeing this from India and China. Volvo are now owned by the Chinese as is Benelli. This is a global problem. I for one am hoping that the moving away from the restrictive practices of the EU will allow the UK to reinvent its manufacturing entrepreneurialism.
@@oldguyinshed1703, I agree, entrepreneurship is very important. Jeremy Clarkson has a nice video about: What killed the British car Industry, also explaining this process of demise very well.
Did the Italian manufacturers survived (just about) for the same reason Harley Survived ? They both had smaller export sales and relied heavily on home grown passion and brand loyalty which seems to me to be a key factor. It is very easy to criticise the management of British bike companies and it is mostly fair criticism because they failed to invest in developing new bikes when they were doing well in the 60's. When the 70's rolled around the Japanese had some brilliant bikes to offer and by then it was too late for British manufacturers to respond but ultimately the British public chose to spend their money on Japanese machines whereas enough Italians kept buying Italian to allow the likes of Guzzi to soldier on even though it was precariously for the most part and in the case of Benelli it is hard to imagine that they would exist today if it hadn't been for Chinese investment and Chinese manufacturing.
You are right about brand loyalty but when the head of NVT stood up in front of the shareholders and stated that the Japanese were only capable of producing small step through machines and not able to produce a large capacity motorcycle showed an incredible lack of foresight and contempt for the consumer no matter where in the world. I personally feel very sad our industry failed to step up to the challenge.
@@oldguyinshed1703 Absolutely agree, as I said most criticism is fair, they should have responded much earlier whilst they were still making money and the Japanese came in with small capacity bikes. They also missed the fact that small capacity bikes were wanted and needed at the time. The biggest coup for the Japanese was when the 50cc and 250cc learner bikes became a thing because how many 16 year olds bought a FS1-E and then went on to buy an RD250 or bought an AP50 and then went on to a GT250? brand loyalty was created at 16 and 17 and along with Kenny Roberts and Barry Sheene, success at the racetrack meant that the Japanese had the recipe for success whilst the British manufacturers seemed to be still stuck in the 50's and 60's. Don't get me wrong I loved the Bonneville but I was the exception amongst my peers because their whole view of bikes was formed by their experience which was all Japanese since they were 16.
@@Grumpy-Goblin We seem to be very much on the same page I was a Norton man for years I had 500cc 600cc Dominators and a 750cc Atlas, I even had a Rickman with a BSA Spitfire engine, but eventually had to go Japanese, although I then turned to BMW for many years until settling on Italian marques.
On a more positive note: Is that Benelli a 250 two stroke? I also loved the 250 four. Took me years to find out that all of these Italian bikes, so the 3 Benelli’s but also the Guzzi V35 / 50 and Le Mans1 where styled by one single man: Paolo Martin. In the end the poor guy had to publish his own books to get the message through. One of the unsung heroes of Italian bike design for sure. 👍👍😁
I would also add that most factories had design teams but the credit tended to go to the most senior of the team irrespective of input, which to me seems a little unfair.
@@oldguyinshed1703 Nowadays maybe but Martin’s book suggests very small facilities and all the sketches in the book are his. He even explains how the striping on the Guzzi 850 T3 came about by him and de Tomaso rather spontaneously starting to mess around with adhesive foils one day.
I traded my much loved 1977 GT500B for a GT380. I sold it after about 6 months as it had almost zero character and just did not feel right. I tried to buy back my 500 but the guy would not part with it ( I don't blame him ). Always regretted selling the Titan.
I've had a few 500s from the original T500 drum brake to the last of the GT500. Very difficult to compare with the GT380 as they were aimed at very different markets. For me the answer is to have one of each, one for serious riding the other for bringing out the hooligan in me.
Maybe not very appreciated but the Italians went where the day took them where the British where being destructive on both sides of the spectrum. A strange thing to behold that a country with a strong communist following did what it had to do where elsewhere a more conservatively minded majority played the class struggle game out with dire consequences. Reminds one of more recent developments in Blighty, doesn’t it?
I think the British bike industry shot itself in the foot by being both arrogant and apathetic. As to Italian politics, well that is as confused as anything imaginable,
Had a GT380 back in the day. Later model than yours it had single front disc, It was silver, 1975 or 6 can't remember. Loved that bike, only problem I had was a failed rear sprocket carrier bearing & a set of points where a tip came off. Not a lot of ground clearance. Sold it for a T140V Bonneville, which had never ending problems. My 380's claim to fame was towing my brother's Norton Commando home from the Isle of Man over the M62. Try doing that today!
Great video,keep them coming.😊
I will do my best
I can still recall a not too long ago comment by a Norton owner at some far away rally in Belgium that my then Honda VT500 was boringly reliable - and yes it boringly too me all the way back to Blighty fully loaded with wet camping gear in the rain, oh on one tank of fuel. Quite how many of those traditional kick starting old thumpers made it back I'll never know!
I do know a lot of people with well built and well maintained Brit bikes that are completely reliable. I do think that saying a machine is boringly reliable a very odd thing to say as there is no fun in breaking down.
I totally fell in love with both at the time. My dream 380 would have alloy wheels and a 3 in 1 sports expansion exhaust.
I felt pretty much the same but combining two stroke exhausts does not really work.
@@oldguyinshed1703 They where actually produced as aftermarket stuff at the time and could give your mother in law a heart attack but I do not know how effective they actually where. They looked fantastic though. 😎
My first bike was a 75 GT380 that I bought as a leftover in 76, In around 80 I bought a Guzzi 850-T and since then have owned a bunch and still do. I also have a Bennell 250 2c like the one you are leaning on that I'm trying to get back on the road here in the USA. I would love to ride a GT380 again. I remember it having almost no vibration, would grind things in corners and drank a lot of gas compared to my friends on their CB350's. I but 10K on the 380 t in one year never really going anywhere, just ridding around. I have been looking for one for years but they do not turn uo often. Cheers. I think the Italians just had , have a passion for their motorcycles, while the British companies in the 70's where run by the Bean counter's and it was more about profit then bikes.
You sound like a man after my own heart, and the bean counters of the world have a lot to answer for, as to the 380 you have got it spot on, thirsty but fun.
Wow, this brings back memories. I had a blue 380 and it was amazing. Remember massive wheelies up Queen St in Auckland back in the day. Awful ground clearance, and a bit tingly, but otherwise comfortable - mine had a calfskin seat. Big issue with centre cylinder overheating if mixture wasn't right.
I've been lucky with the centre cylinder and as it is now an old girl wheelies are out of the question.
@@oldguyinshed1703 In my case, the air inlet hose came loose on the centre carb, on a long trip, and the centre piston ended up getting holed. At least parts were cheap and repairs were easy.
@@hindesite That's just old fashioned bad luck and that happens to us all from time to time
This is something like apples vs oranges .. V-twin 4 stroke, disk brakes, shaft drive vs two somoker, chain and drums. I have always been 'a cruising around' type of rider and I am a big fan of shaft drives on small bikes. Bikes like BMW r 26 or AWO 425 /250cc both/ With shaft drives and Longitudinal singles. Love them, love the Gucci too.
You are right about the differences but they were both middle weight bikes of the same era, It was always a bone of contention as to which would serve the owner best even though in truth we mostly buy with our hearts not our heads
I bought my 90 Millie in 92,it was new old stock. If I remember correctly Guzzi sold 300 bikes in the US in 90. They have survived but just.
It always surprises me how many guzzis survive, the percentage of survivors against numbers produced is quite high when compared with many other marques. This I believe is because they are bought by people who keep them for many years.
One point you might have added is that the Suzuki 380 could be bought in most towns of average size whereas the guzzi had a much smaller distribution network. I had a 550 for a while and loved it. There is something about 3 cylinder engines that is just right. MF 35 for example!
Moto Guzzi could be compared to Harley Davidson perhaps. Both outdated and, compared to the Japanese products, primitive but ultimately successful. You raised a lot of interesting points..... perhaps survival of some of these companies came down to the loyalty of the domestic market.
You are right of course the distribution network of all the Japanese makes was outstanding and all part of the mentioned onslaught, I was concentrating more on the style and youth appeal of the two machines. I totally agree with your comment about home market loyalty and I guess that is what I meant when I said the Brit bike management treated the home youth market with contempt and that was part of the downfall.
It's interesting to note that those were between the first trasverse V that Guzzi produced, before it was only about single cilinder, Guzzi with Benelli were just bought by DeTommaso, the same of the sportscar, who wanted to innovate at least as far as the engine goes, and they experimented with many different ideas; while now the v engine is pretty much Guzzi trademark
I guess I’m a bit biased, I’ve never ridden a Guzzi & I found a GT185 for 200$ four or five years back. Got it running then ordered chambers from higgs. For such a tiny machine it really hauls themail! Ever since I have been looking for a GT550 but they dont come up for salevery often. That is a real beauty 380 you have there, I love the 1st year of GT’s with the drum front👌
My wife passed her motorbike test on a GT185 and we both have fond memories of a great little bike, I like the look of the drum brake on the earlier bikes and as they are twin leading shoe work really well. Thanks for the comment.
Very nice
Thank you, appreciated.
I remember the v50 described as a bit underpowered, a similar 350 must be a bit `steady`. not that it would worry me - I ride a himalayan in my 70th year. I had a gt380 in texaco heron barry sheene style with 3 expansion chambers. I had to push it down the street a bit before starting up on a morning! I gave a guy thumbing a lift on the A1 a ride back to London, and he was quite distressed when he got off...
I like the idea of a guy getting distressed on a bike he must have been a front runner for the snowflakes. The v35 is very steady but it is a bike that will get you to where you want to go without drama (or distress) I bet you were the boy with a 380 fitted with expansion chambers and Heron colours
I love an exchange of arguments too, and here you have one. As a great lover of British cars and bikes and being about the same age as, Old Guy in Shed, I have seen the crumbling down of a world leading industry in the UK which is now almost completely gone. In Europe Germany has taken over their place and very successfully so. It is very regretful that this could happen and was caused by, imho, the take over of the management by the bean counters who took the place of the engineers and the pioneers who started these companies in the first place. Take any case you like and compare it to a German or even an Italian competitor. The British management never had any money for development and wasted it on inefficiency. They never had the patience and courage to sit out a downturn in business whereas the competition stuck to it and tried to innovate themselves out of the crisis. Take Guzzi, being a world leader in motorcycle manufacture themselves at some point, they went through many crises and were several times on the brink of insolvency. Somehow they kept hanging in there and stuck to their proven concept of succes like their v-twins, in some way a bit like BMW, or Harley but way more modern than the latter. In a difficult time there was always an other entrepreneur to support with a daring vision and with new innovations in engineering, the small Guzzi v-twins are a great example of this, carried the company forward. A similar comparison can be made between MG with its great pedigree , and Porsche with their rear mounted boxer engines who never gave up to become a great succes, whereas in the 50/60`s MG had better cars than Porsche. At he moment I own an MGB roadster and a Guzzi 1100 california and a V35 Imola.
I think there were many more factors at the time of the UK demise such as union disputes that were more political than economic, the inability of management to maneuver quickly to market changes and demands. Moto Guzzi as an example were in receivership when the company was bought by DeTomaso, for not a lot of money at the time, he had the Guzzi factory building the four stroke multi cylinder engines for Benelli that he already owned this was in addition to his supercar factory. This shows and ability to shift resources quickly and efficiently. He also was shrewd enough to sell Guzzi, having got it into profit, to Aprillia for mega money only for them to struggle to survive until the Piaggio brothers bought Aprillia and took over Guzzi at the same time. Again this ability to move shows that manufacturing requires a very sharp mind for both tradition and accounting, sadly we are now seeing this from India and China. Volvo are now owned by the Chinese as is Benelli. This is a global problem. I for one am hoping that the moving away from the restrictive practices of the EU will allow the UK to reinvent its manufacturing entrepreneurialism.
@@oldguyinshed1703, I agree, entrepreneurship is very important. Jeremy Clarkson has a nice video about: What killed the British car Industry, also explaining this process of demise very well.
I have more faith getting to where I am going on a Japanese bike. I had the GT750.
I've many Japanese bikes all good but no better than the many Italian bikes I have owned.
Did the Italian manufacturers survived (just about) for the same reason Harley Survived ? They both had smaller export sales and relied heavily on home grown passion and brand loyalty which seems to me to be a key factor. It is very easy to criticise the management of British bike companies and it is mostly fair criticism because they failed to invest in developing new bikes when they were doing well in the 60's. When the 70's rolled around the Japanese had some brilliant bikes to offer and by then it was too late for British manufacturers to respond but ultimately the British public chose to spend their money on Japanese machines whereas enough Italians kept buying Italian to allow the likes of Guzzi to soldier on even though it was precariously for the most part and in the case of Benelli it is hard to imagine that they would exist today if it hadn't been for Chinese investment and Chinese manufacturing.
You are right about brand loyalty but when the head of NVT stood up in front of the shareholders and stated that the Japanese were only capable of producing small step through machines and not able to produce a large capacity motorcycle showed an incredible lack of foresight and contempt for the consumer no matter where in the world. I personally feel very sad our industry failed to step up to the challenge.
@@oldguyinshed1703 Absolutely agree, as I said most criticism is fair, they should have responded much earlier whilst they were still making money and the Japanese came in with small capacity bikes. They also missed the fact that small capacity bikes were wanted and needed at the time. The biggest coup for the Japanese was when the 50cc and 250cc learner bikes became a thing because how many 16 year olds bought a FS1-E and then went on to buy an RD250 or bought an AP50 and then went on to a GT250? brand loyalty was created at 16 and 17 and along with Kenny Roberts and Barry Sheene, success at the racetrack meant that the Japanese had the recipe for success whilst the British manufacturers seemed to be still stuck in the 50's and 60's. Don't get me wrong I loved the Bonneville but I was the exception amongst my peers because their whole view of bikes was formed by their experience which was all Japanese since they were 16.
@@Grumpy-Goblin We seem to be very much on the same page I was a Norton man for years I had 500cc 600cc Dominators and a 750cc Atlas, I even had a Rickman with a BSA Spitfire engine, but eventually had to go Japanese, although I then turned to BMW for many years until settling on Italian marques.
On a more positive note: Is that Benelli a 250 two stroke? I also loved the 250 four. Took me years to find out that all of these Italian bikes, so the 3 Benelli’s but also the Guzzi V35 / 50 and Le Mans1 where styled by one single man: Paolo Martin. In the end the poor guy had to publish his own books to get the message through. One of the unsung heroes of Italian bike design for sure. 👍👍😁
I would also add that most factories had design teams but the credit tended to go to the most senior of the team irrespective of input, which to me seems a little unfair.
@@oldguyinshed1703 Nowadays maybe but Martin’s book suggests very small facilities and all the sketches in the book are his. He even explains how the striping on the Guzzi 850 T3 came about by him and de Tomaso rather spontaneously starting to mess around with adhesive foils one day.
I traded my much loved 1977 GT500B for a GT380. I sold it after about 6 months as it had almost zero character and just did not feel right. I tried to buy back my 500 but the guy would not part with it ( I don't blame him ). Always regretted selling the Titan.
I've had a few 500s from the original T500 drum brake to the last of the GT500. Very difficult to compare with the GT380 as they were aimed at very different markets. For me the answer is to have one of each, one for serious riding the other for bringing out the hooligan in me.
@@oldguyinshed1703 So True. The 500 did some serious miles.
How many bikes does one need? One more than you've got.
The actual equation if anyone tries to doubt your sanity is as follows N+1 (N being the number you currently own)
@@oldguyinshed1703 LOL
Maybe not very appreciated but the Italians went where the day took them where the British where being destructive on both sides of the spectrum. A strange thing to behold that a country with a strong communist following did what it had to do where elsewhere a more conservatively minded majority played the class struggle game out with dire consequences. Reminds one of more recent developments in Blighty, doesn’t it?
I think the British bike industry shot itself in the foot by being both arrogant and apathetic. As to Italian politics, well that is as confused as anything imaginable,
@@oldguyinshed1703 True! 😁
It's a shame that Benellis are now made in China
So are honda, some suzukis and god knows what else.
very true but you never know with the contraction of companies turning to China they may go back to Italy
Doesn't China now have a space program so they must know what they're doing.
@@mryorkshire3623 Hope the rockets aren't made out of case hardened plasticine