At the end of the day, even if it could be proven that on balance the effects of the minimum wage law were good, it would remain unjustified. You simply have no right to tell other people how much they are allowed to work for, charge for work, etc.
One of the things I find inspiring with people like Walter Williams is that they try to make logical arguments based on fact and principle. At the very end of this clip, Williams goes after Rangel and the other guy based on their principle argument on the legitimacy of the law/policy. Williams reveals to the audience the flaw in their fundamental argument that they can't have their cake and eat it, too - picking and choosing when the law works and when it doesn't to satisfy their own wants/desires. I love it when politicians get nailed like that. They try to make arguments based on emotion (notice how Rangel brings up slavery in order to steal the emotional show), when in reality they don't have solid footing based on principle. Unfortunately, we have a lot of voting citizens in the U.S. who still vote based on emotional bullshit like that when in reality they're being used as pawns for reelection and power-retention purposes.
+Ken Mills I've said many times on here that the price floors are what causes excess production of milk in the California dairy industry. Also, these price floors price people out of the milk market. Does the government learn their lesson and remove the price floors which would cause the less efficient dairy farmers go out of business and let the markets return to equilibrium? Yes, government intervention drives markets out of equilibrium. Nope, they get in the business of correcting the problem they caused in the first place and all the while blame capitalism for the problem that a lack of capitalism causes via the market intervention by government. So, they buy up all this excess milk that people could afford before the price floor was put in place. This requires tax payer money. On top of that, they hire a bunch of expensive bureaucrats to administer this milk hand out program that also takes a bunch of taxpayer money. Now, whatever the people were spending this money on cannot because it's taxed to support this government program. Thus, unemployment results because this money is all going to support a dairy industry producing a product that isn't needed. It is a misallocation of capital and labor. The most extreme example of this was the UK in 1979. They went so far down this road of unionization, government subsidy and outright government ownership that industry became a wealth consumer instead of a wealth produced. The entire country ground to a halt in 1979. This all snowballed until there was such an acute shortage of electricity that only a three day work week was possible. Talk about an unemployment problem. All because of government interference in the markets.
I feel bad that Walter E Williams had to debate with film glam men like these two. He was a brilliant man and our world is a little less now that he’s gone
jumbojet8 Amen! Walter Williams is a national treasure. Never have such complex understanding and simple reasoning coexisted in the same individual. Genius!
ALWAYS! Set up your definitions and parameters first before going into the argument. Why? Just as Dr. Williams did [and had to wait awhile for these two to allow him time to do just that], he then tells Rangel that you say minimum wage has no or little effect on unemployment, but now that we talk about a sub minimum wage for the young people, you don't want that either because you're afraid it will take away jobs from older people, which in that thinking destroys your earlier position that minimum wage doesn't effect unemployment. This happens throughout any kind of debate or argument going on. Dr. Williams cuts through the B.S. that these two are handing out and traps them with their own reasoning. Tip of the hat to Dr. Williams. Try and read as much as you can from Dr. Williams, he's damn good.
So we need a sub-minimum wage law to employ minority teens and unskilled labor who cannot meat the threshold of working a job at minimum wage because the minimum wage is set to provide a "living wage" that keeps people out of slavery, except to get the people out of slavery we need a sub-minimum wage law that does not provide a "living wage". Do I have it right? I live in the People's Republic of California, under the one party rule of the Democratic Party, so I'm trying to learn their language to communicate with them.
What's the difference between the slavery argument and $1 an hour? WOW! How dumb! In slavery, duhhhhh, the slave doesn't get to voluntarily choose. Many people logically choose to work for $0 an hour. It is called an "unpaid internship." More than a billion people choose to work for a wage Americans would find incredibly low. Why?! $1 an hour beats $0 an hour. The best cure for poverty is a job. Increase the cost of a behavior and you get less of it. How many people would do something themselves rather than hire someone else to do it OR forego having it done altogether if the cost is too high?! It doesn't take a doctorate in critical thinking to understand this.
If the government can mandate a minimum wage can't they mandate a maximum wage? And also can't they mandate what a grocer can sell a container of milk for?
One of these guys has been a successful black politician for decades, with multitudes of African Americans supporting him and what he stands for. Guess which one? Our Country is over.
+a Gifted Righter Ya know I thought we had a chance before the internet came to turn things around, but seeing peoples comments on you tube I have lost my faith in humanity,.
Rangel supported the FNMA/Goldman-Sachs banker conmen, as well. He helped the Predatory Lenders leave millions of blacks homeless/foreclosed upon, ironically. Rangel doesn't care about the (real, average) black people anymore than Bush did. Pseudo-liberationist Obama then hired dozens of the guilty bankers to run his White House.
I was just saying to my son's how much of a shame it is that so many people have no idea who Walter Williams is. In fact, most conservatives wouldn't know who he was if they had not heard him guest host for Rush Limbaugh. A shame...a giant among gnats.
1:42 "I don't doubt that the minimum wage probably has had some effect on the number of jobs...." That alone is so much mealy mouthed nonsense. He says I don't doubt, but then qualifies it by using the word probably. He isn't even sure of his own conclusion. He then goes on to use the word but, which further qualifies what he's saying.
Leave it to a race hustler like Rangel to play the race card with Dr. Williams ! Rangel and the other guest brought knives to a gunfight. Love Dr. Williams.
Patrick Cruser Its so laughable isn’t it? What would anyone expect a study performed by the Congressional Minimum Wage Commission conclude about the efficacy of Minimum Wage Laws?
Charlie Rangel full of crap. I'm 64 years old. Been running Construction outfit for 40 years. And I have never heard of that law. Which means... That not very many other people haven't heard of it either... Let alone teenagers.
Teenagers aren't the only ones not employable at or over the minimum wage and hiring employers at no cost means hiring at no responsibility. Only a small ammount of people is willing to do a good job with no pay.
The sad part is, he probably excelled in his college economics class. I know people who took both college and high school courses in economics who don't know anything about the subject.
The man on the left speaks like a politician...and he straw-mans at every opportunity he has. Rangle, meanwhile is simply economically illiterate...he has no business being on a panel about the economic effects of minimum wage laws. Of course they disproportionately affect individuals with lower skills, and bad inner-city schools produce low-skilled workers. We want as many people working as possible...that's an opinion that even socialists and capitalists can agree on. Minimum wage laws lead to higher unemployment, and a lower supply of low-skilled work. A business will higher a minimum-wage employee that is worth that per-hour cost, and no more than that.
You want people to work especially low-skilled workers to work and not collect all of their income from public assistance. And you are not a Libertarian who believes that government has no role when it comes to public assistance. Than work simply has to pay more than not working.
It’s a very frustrating thing to advocate for the removal of the minimum wage when you, yourself work for a higher salary. Those at the bottom of the pay scale tend to accuse you of being unsympathetic, selfish, or greedy even. It can feel demoralizing to argue with a population of people who vote hardship onto themselves, and accuse you of ill intent for dissenting their opinion.
And besides that. It's still a boon for the tax collector and an entitlement not earned for the recipient... Which is the same thing as the minimum wage law in principle. .. one of these guys is not a race Hustler... And just stating facts... but there appear to be some pretty good dancers in the group
I feel as though Walter didn't do a good job in destroying their arguments enough. Before minimum wage, more blacks were employed than whites(adjusted for their population of course). Also, you want to make access to training programs so people will be productive? You mean like SCHOOL? We have colleges and trade school. You want to make it free and raise tax dollars for people who might not use those services? Why offer training you have to pay an immense amount for when you can either work for your employer for free(to gain the knowledge to do the job). Or get paid a little bit of money for it instead of actually paying a lot for it.
So, working for less than minimum wage is equated to slavery and the example is illegal migrant laborers will work for less than minimum wage. Illegal migrant labor is modern day slavery in The United States. Interesting how relevant this clip is to today and why some will fight tooth and nail for the unresticted flow of slavery, I mean illegal migrant labor.
I cannot even imagine how stupid a person must be to argue for a minimum wage. As soon as you raise the cost of Labor, the cost of bread goes up. And his new labor wages are nullified. Just like all communist and socialist ideas, the minimum wage destroys or attempts to destroy the profit necessary to display wealth. The minimum wage creates poverty. If you don't believe me look at the young faces of the race hustlers in this video. The government continued to do what they wanted done, and look at the state of the country now. People who are going to college are in the street screaming about being poor. So loudly, that the poor can't be heard.
Dr. Williams higher intellect and impeccable common sense is even more evident next to That race baiter joke of a congressman. Btw I find the mediator woman attractive.
At the end of the day, even if it could be proven that on balance the effects of the minimum wage law were good, it would remain unjustified. You simply have no right to tell other people how much they are allowed to work for, charge for work, etc.
Not fair! Dr. Williams uses reason.
DemoCRIPS and ReBLOODlicans: No More Gangs in Government 1st Edition
by Jesse Ventura (Author), Dick Russell (Author)
It's super effective!
Walter Williams can't even play dumb he's so smart! Scary genius!
One of the things I find inspiring with people like Walter Williams is that they try to make logical arguments based on fact and principle. At the very end of this clip, Williams goes after Rangel and the other guy based on their principle argument on the legitimacy of the law/policy. Williams reveals to the audience the flaw in their fundamental argument that they can't have their cake and eat it, too - picking and choosing when the law works and when it doesn't to satisfy their own wants/desires. I love it when politicians get nailed like that. They try to make arguments based on emotion (notice how Rangel brings up slavery in order to steal the emotional show), when in reality they don't have solid footing based on principle. Unfortunately, we have a lot of voting citizens in the U.S. who still vote based on emotional bullshit like that when in reality they're being used as pawns for reelection and power-retention purposes.
Fingolfin3423 Agreed. Anyone, ANYONE, who believes price floors do not create surplus is either stupid or ignorant.
Fingolfin3423 Well said.
+Ken Mills I've said many times on here that the price floors are what causes excess production of milk in the California dairy industry. Also, these price floors price people out of the milk market. Does the government learn their lesson and remove the price floors which would cause the less efficient dairy farmers go out of business and let the markets return to equilibrium? Yes, government intervention drives markets out of equilibrium. Nope, they get in the business of correcting the problem they caused in the first place and all the while blame capitalism for the problem that a lack of capitalism causes via the market intervention by government. So, they buy up all this excess milk that people could afford before the price floor was put in place. This requires tax payer money. On top of that, they hire a bunch of expensive bureaucrats to administer this milk hand out program that also takes a bunch of taxpayer money. Now, whatever the people were spending this money on cannot because it's taxed to support this government program. Thus, unemployment results because this money is all going to support a dairy industry producing a product that isn't needed. It is a misallocation of capital and labor. The most extreme example of this was the UK in 1979. They went so far down this road of unionization, government subsidy and outright government ownership that industry became a wealth consumer instead of a wealth produced. The entire country ground to a halt in 1979. This all snowballed until there was such an acute shortage of electricity that only a three day work week was possible. Talk about an unemployment problem. All because of government interference in the markets.
It's "you can't ear your cake and have it too". You have it wrong
Your reply is even more relevant now!
Williams schools these fools..
Charlie Rangel can't have a honest discourse without playing identity politics...way back then!
Dr William uses Reason. It is VERY effective!
Tyler D Absolutely! A joy to watch.
Williams made a better argument FOR the min. wage than either the Dr. or the Rep. and still dismantled what they said.
I feel bad that Walter E Williams had to debate with film glam men like these two. He was a brilliant man and our world is a little less now that he’s gone
Thankfully we still have Thomas Sowell!
Love Walter Williams. His reason is music to my ears.
Facts over feelings!
I think just the fact that Charlie Rangel is for something is argument enough against it.
It is extremely difficult to present a cogent argument with ignorant people.
Thank you, Walter! An American treasure.
jumbojet8 Amen! Walter Williams is a national treasure. Never have such complex understanding and simple reasoning coexisted in the same individual. Genius!
ALWAYS! Set up your definitions and parameters first before going into the argument. Why? Just as Dr. Williams did [and had to wait awhile for these two to allow him time to do just that], he then tells Rangel that you say minimum wage has no or little effect on unemployment, but now that we talk about a sub minimum wage for the young people, you don't want that either because you're afraid it will take away jobs from older people, which in that thinking destroys your earlier position that minimum wage doesn't effect unemployment. This happens throughout any kind of debate or argument going on. Dr. Williams cuts through the B.S. that these two are handing out and traps them with their own reasoning. Tip of the hat to Dr. Williams. Try and read as much as you can from Dr. Williams, he's damn good.
Williams, as usual, PWNS those noobs.
Those who do not learn from history...
Where did all these smart black people go?
“I know exactly what they are gonna say”
*Mic Drop 🎤
So we need a sub-minimum wage law to employ minority teens and unskilled labor who cannot meat the threshold of working a job at minimum wage because the minimum wage is set to provide a "living wage" that keeps people out of slavery, except to get the people out of slavery we need a sub-minimum wage law that does not provide a "living wage".
Do I have it right?
I live in the People's Republic of California, under the one party rule of the Democratic Party, so I'm trying to learn their language to communicate with them.
Exactly what I wondered as well, that's what it sounds like they're saying.
What do you mean "they can not meet the threshold"?
What's the difference between the slavery argument and $1 an hour? WOW! How dumb! In slavery, duhhhhh, the slave doesn't get to voluntarily choose. Many people logically choose to work for $0 an hour. It is called an "unpaid internship." More than a billion people choose to work for a wage Americans would find incredibly low. Why?! $1 an hour beats $0 an hour. The best cure for poverty is a job. Increase the cost of a behavior and you get less of it. How many people would do something themselves rather than hire someone else to do it OR forego having it done altogether if the cost is too high?! It doesn't take a doctorate in critical thinking to understand this.
If the government can mandate a minimum wage can't they mandate a maximum wage? And also can't they mandate what a grocer can sell a container of milk for?
Walter Williams actually studied his college classes
One of these guys has been a successful black politician for decades, with multitudes of African Americans supporting him and what he stands for.
Guess which one?
Our Country is over.
+a Gifted Righter Ya know I thought we had a chance before the internet came to turn things around, but seeing peoples comments on you tube I have lost my faith in humanity,.
Rangel supported the FNMA/Goldman-Sachs banker conmen, as well. He helped the Predatory Lenders leave millions of blacks homeless/foreclosed upon, ironically. Rangel doesn't care about the (real, average) black people anymore than Bush did. Pseudo-liberationist Obama then hired dozens of the guilty bankers to run his White House.
the stupid one
I was just saying to my son's how much of a shame it is that so many people have no idea who Walter Williams is. In fact, most conservatives wouldn't know who he was if they had not heard him guest host for Rush Limbaugh. A shame...a giant among gnats.
Wow, look how young Walter is! When was this? Looks like the late 1980s?
1:42 "I don't doubt that the minimum wage probably has had some effect on the number of jobs...."
That alone is so much mealy mouthed nonsense. He says I don't doubt, but then qualifies it by using the word probably. He isn't even sure of his own conclusion. He then goes on to use the word but, which further qualifies what he's saying.
Leave it to a race hustler like Rangel to play the race card with Dr. Williams ! Rangel and the other guest brought knives to a gunfight. Love Dr. Williams.
Dude cites a study by the Minimum Wage Commission LMAO
Patrick Cruser
Its so laughable isn’t it?
What would anyone expect a study performed by the Congressional Minimum Wage Commission conclude about the efficacy of Minimum Wage Laws?
So Chuck Rangel was always stupid? Except when he mentions “migrant labor”
A problem that doesn't exist in a country without minimum wage, I might add.
Charlie Rangel full of crap. I'm 64 years old. Been running Construction outfit for 40 years. And I have never heard of that law. Which means... That not very many other people haven't heard of it either... Let alone teenagers.
That example Dr Williams gave at the end was utter brilliance
Teenagers aren't the only ones not employable at or over the minimum wage and hiring employers at no cost means hiring at no responsibility. Only a small ammount of people is willing to do a good job with no pay.
Go ahead Walter and reach over there and slap him. I'm almost certain I would have. Depending on whether or not I had bail money in my pocket
Rangel flunked his class in economics...
The sad part is, he probably excelled in his college economics class. I know people who took both college and high school courses in economics who don't know anything about the subject.
The man on the left speaks like a politician...and he straw-mans at every opportunity he has. Rangle, meanwhile is simply economically illiterate...he has no business being on a panel about the economic effects of minimum wage laws. Of course they disproportionately affect individuals with lower skills, and bad inner-city schools produce low-skilled workers. We want as many people working as possible...that's an opinion that even socialists and capitalists can agree on. Minimum wage laws lead to higher unemployment, and a lower supply of low-skilled work. A business will higher a minimum-wage employee that is worth that per-hour cost, and no more than that.
Well said sir.
Greed is a crazy drug! The myth of scarcity is also a crazy drug!
Williams makes these clowns look silly.
Though I agree with Williams on this issue, I think it's admirable how both manage to engage in an intellectual discussion that is very informative.
I love that the first guy admitted the minimum wage does have an effect on employment lol
Who did Rangles wig?
what is Dem C Rangle's suggestion? Yet another gov't program.
Can someone provide the link to the full video please. Thanks
Let’s argue a stupid premise to try to paint Dr Williams in a fake corner.
Great discourse
Does anybody have the full debate video?
You want people to work especially low-skilled workers to work and not collect all of their income from public assistance. And you are not a Libertarian who believes that government has no role when it comes to public assistance. Than work simply has to pay more than not working.
It’s a very frustrating thing to advocate for the removal of the minimum wage when you, yourself work for a higher salary. Those at the bottom of the pay scale tend to accuse you of being unsympathetic, selfish, or greedy even. It can feel demoralizing to argue with a population of people who vote hardship onto themselves, and accuse you of ill intent for dissenting their opinion.
who is the other black guy with the old school wavy hair?
Shoutout to walter williams
Too much other guys. Not enough Walter Williams.
Wish we could watch the whole debate
Fantastic.
Rangel opens his pie hole and can't stop talking. The man makes me sick!
And besides that. It's still a boon for the tax collector and an entitlement not earned for the recipient... Which is the same thing as the minimum wage law in principle. .. one of these guys is not a race Hustler... And just stating facts... but there appear to be some pretty good dancers in the group
Government, government, government, When will we learn our lesson?
This video is further evidence that the ones who do the most talking are typically on the weaker side of the argument.
Shoutout to koch
Who is that Anderson guy?
Dr. Bernard E. Anderson
Thanks.
I feel as though Walter didn't do a good job in destroying their arguments enough. Before minimum wage, more blacks were employed than whites(adjusted for their population of course). Also, you want to make access to training programs so people will be productive? You mean like SCHOOL? We have colleges and trade school. You want to make it free and raise tax dollars for people who might not use those services? Why offer training you have to pay an immense amount for when you can either work for your employer for free(to gain the knowledge to do the job). Or get paid a little bit of money for it instead of actually paying a lot for it.
So your point is what?
So, working for less than minimum wage is equated to slavery and the example is illegal migrant laborers will work for less than minimum wage. Illegal migrant labor is modern day slavery in The United States. Interesting how relevant this clip is to today and why some will fight tooth and nail for the unresticted flow of slavery, I mean illegal migrant labor.
Migrant labour isn't slavery because they are send those dollars back to their families. But their is no such thing as a right to passage.
rangel or anderson are not economists. unfair contest
I cannot even imagine how stupid a person must be to argue for a minimum wage. As soon as you raise the cost of Labor, the cost of bread goes up. And his new labor wages are nullified. Just like all communist and socialist ideas, the minimum wage destroys or attempts to destroy the profit necessary to display wealth. The minimum wage creates poverty. If you don't believe me look at the young faces of the race hustlers in this video. The government continued to do what they wanted done, and look at the state of the country now. People who are going to college are in the street screaming about being poor. So loudly, that the poor can't be heard.
Dr. Williams higher intellect and impeccable common sense is even more evident next to That race baiter joke of a congressman. Btw I find the mediator woman attractive.
Rangel was crooked AF.
Rangel brought a knife to a gunfight again. Williams beat him like a drum.