Chase pH, Not Alkalinity - Chris Meckley ACI Aquaculture, Rappin' With ReefBum Sound Bite
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- This is an excerpt from the 3/23/21 episode of Rappin' With ReefBum with Chris Meckley from ACI Aquaculture. In this clip Chris discusses why he chases pH, not alkalinity.
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Great watching. I can see this idea changing the way we think of reef keeping in the future. Keep it going.
I wish I saw this one earlier... good topic!
Every known field of biology will tell you that pH and temperature are what drives reactions. For example, enzymes exist to overcome the energy needed for biologically driven chemical reactions, but enzymes are constrained by an acceptable range of both pH and temperature. It's why we have a pH buffer in our blood and conduct homeostasis, along with so many other high-order animals.
And that is before we look at what "alkalinity" actually is and the unique considerations of calcareous organisms in using it as a building block.
To put it simply, pH is the measure of free hydrogen ions. At 7, the hydrogen ion (proton's or H+) and hydroxide ion are equal. Going below 7 means the solution has more hydrogen ions than hydroxide, which interferes with and coats every other ion and ionic compound in that solution. While going above 7, means the hydrogen ion's are at a deficit and the hydroxide ion predominates; which can also interfere with some other ions and compounds in solution (but in a way that is ideal for salt water in a natural state).
Alkalinity on the other hand is a measure of a solutions ability to neutralize acid by absorbing excess hydrogen ions. "Alkalinity" is quite literally the ability of water to buffer pH above neutral, using the carbonate cycle; as water in and of itself is actually a weak acid! Which slowly acidifies further when exposed to carbon dioxide ( look up "Henry's Law").
Carbonate (CO3 -2) does this by absorbing free hydrogen ions, as carbonate is naturally a very strong base. When it absorbs a H+, it becomes Bicarbonate (CO3 - at around pH 8.3). When the solution's pH is low enough, Bicarbonate becomes carbonic acid (around pH 4.3).
However, Carbonic acid is essentially created anytime CO2 is dissolved in H2O. This is where the Carbon for Carbonate came from to begin with. But, the amount of existing H+ in the water and Henry's law will tell you which form the majority of Carbon will take in that solution. So, it's more accurate to think of Alkalinity as a Carbon transport, rather than a pH interaction. This is why Chris telling people to chase pH over chasing Alk works. If you insure your pH is high enough, then simply dissolving CO2 through normal gas exchange creates Carbonate (though you're really unlikely to do that in practice).
Simply, pH and temperature will trump every other single individual element or parameter by matter of importance.
After that is carbon (the building block of life found in every organic compound) and oxygen (needed for both multiple important organic compounds and respiration), which we luckily don't usually worry about. Then after that is all the things reefers chase like alk, nitrogen, phosphorus, calcium, magnesium and so forth.
Now that's not debating husbandry. That's simply stating biological requirements. I'm sure there are systems where pH is secondary to a nutrient or element, due to the tremendous variation in the hobby.
But what he says in the first 5 minutes is a no-brainer for those of use trained in formal biology.
I’m living in a newly built home and I noticed that my PH is insanely high - 8-4-8.5. I struggled so hard when I was in an older home or in an apartment. I’m excited to see what this high PH is going to do for the tank.
I think the new houses have much better AC systems and that might pump more fresh air into the house.
Hey Keith, I was re watching this video and something you said made me want to post the following: you said that you like to see the dip in Alk during the day so that you know your corals are happy and consuming Alk, and that is why you do not automate the dosing. Now, although I understand your point, I do precisely the same with automated doser (with an Alkatronic) and the way I know my corals are consuming more is precisely because my dosage goes up during the day. So I measure coral consumption looking at actual dosing/supplementation that is being automatically provided and increased to keep up with demand. Now, I would not trust the KHD (and much less the GHL Dosers) to do the same thing. I used them for 2 years and had some nasty episodes due to sample pump malfunctioning leading to erroneous readings and underdosing of Alk.
So H²CO³ is "binding up" CaCO³ into rock/ pores (which is mostly made of CaCO³ itself) ? if that were true calcium reactors would not function, they would have a reverse effect.
Great interview but the chemistry behind these "theories" is dicey at best.
Honestly the PH is the parameter I have the hardest time to keep up. CAL, ALK, MG I keep extremely stable with Tropic Marin AFR. I run an air line from the skimmer outside to fresh air but I stay between 7.99 to 8.16. Really thinking about changing my dosing and adding Kalk. 🤦🏻♂️ With 6 people, 2 dogs and a cat in the house in Indiana it’s hard to keep fresh air flowing.
Interesting running the Ca reactor affluent into PS! The beast Pax Bellum and it’s been helping ph with my Ca reactor. At the end he just started talking about all and the Ca reactor. I’m running 27ml /min on Ca reactor and corals are taking off and I now can’t keep up with alk. I have the GHL KH and Profilux 4. Can the KH director dose alk adjustments? I’m also running kalk in ato. I tried Kalk reactor but I didn’t have much luck. I need a video on how to do all that with the GHL. Hope that makes sense. Great interviews they are a treasure trove of important information nuggets we can get anywhere else that are not product specific. Everyone in to SPS needs to watch all of these videos.
I wish I could help you. I have no experience with the GHL. Hopefully someone will chime in to help.
Yes, you can control alkalinity with a KH Director using both two-part dosing and a calcium reactor. I have actually done both but prefer to use the KHD as a monitor.
I am having a problem with ALK. I am using a Avast reactor and dosing 13liters a day (versa pump)to keep my PH @ 8.15. BUT my ALK is a 14.2 dkh ! What I am doing since my dose rate is HIGHER than my evaporation rate is draining tank water and replacing new salt water to keep up salinity. Corals look ok (one SPS has a little whitening at the base). I had run a air line outside to ETSS skimmer years ago (no help). Tank 180 with 100gal sump in basement with cheato. Magnesium 1380,Calcium 460. Tank has been running for over 25 years (fish only) and I have tried corals in the past with no luck but installing this kalk reactor and raising PH is a game changer! I am running a Korallin sulphur biodenitrator also.So last nite I had shut down the kalk reactor and in 6 hours my PH dropped from 8.12 to 7.98 ! I turned the kalk reactor back on. Any Ideas on how to lower ALK besides co2 scrubber?
You should only be dosing the amount of kalk in solution that your tank loses in evaporation over a day (it is best to dose all of this on a reverse light cycle in a 12 hour period). You can try other things to elevate pH like use a C02 scrubber, air exchange unit or drip the effluent from your Ca reactor (if you have one) near the intake of your skimmer pump.
@@ReefBum Thanks for the reply.... I understand that I should match the evaporation rate but like I said... my dose rate is HIGHER than my evaporation rate to maintain a PH of @ least 8.1. I am not using a CA reactor yet. I do not know long term effects of high ALK.
I would really like to know what he's talking about. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Ok, I understand that keeping the right pH is needed to get the best health and growth of hard corals. But how is the CO2 locking/bounding alkalinity to the rocks in low pH? I have no idea, I thought it could do have precipitation with high pH, not low. But IDK.
I dose soda ash and my pH is around 8.1 and 8.5 (probe calibrated 8 months ago lol).
And if he's dosing soda hydroxide, in my understanding that will react with CO2 and raise alkalinity. Not release alk from the rocks. But I may be wrong.
The key is achieving a more stable PH. To do that using a carbonate and bicarbonate along with a hydroxide (kalk) will maintain a more stable and higher PH and therefore achieve a more stable alk in time. By maintaining a higher PH, I’m seeing the increase in coral growth and most importantly in increase in the corals overall health. That is my goal and that is the results I’m seeing.
CO2 being absorbed into water will create carbonic acid, and thus decrease alkalinity and PH. It’s decreasing because it’s interacting with weak acids which in this case is carbonic acid. Therefore you will always be adding alkalinity. By using the hydroxide to increase and stabilize your PH, the alkalinity that is attributed to bicarbonate and carbonate additions remain more stable i.e. deplete more slowly. In matter of speaking there are two types of alkalinity; long and short term. If you are only using a carbonate or bicarbonate buffer it’s likely going to keep your PH less stable. This is not our goal. The results we are seeing by adding hydroxide to increase PH levels is the stability and overall health and growth of the animals.
@@aciaquaculture ok, now I think I got your point and why you said that. Really cool to see your feedback on how pH affects corals.
One thing I think is a bit different is this:
when co2 is dissolved in water, not all co2 will react and ionize and make carbonic acid. But that carbonic acid will not decrease your alkalinity. When you have carbonic acid (H2CO3) ionized it will actually have an equilibrium with bicarbonates. By releasing one "H+" that will react with bicarbonate and make another carbonic acid. But remember that carbonic acid lost an "H" and became bicarbonate. So, no, co2 won't decrease your alkalinity. It may react with (OH-) from bases and produce bicarbonates. Like CO2 + OH -> there you go you have an HCO3 which is bicarbonate.
So, when you add sodium hydroxide and kalkwasser to keep high pH, you have that "OH" to react with CO2 and raise your alkalinity. Shit, I hope I was clear.
@@aciaquaculture just to give you one practical example, we inject CO2 in planted aquariums and have no impact on alkalinity. It does affect pH though.
@@wilsonline90 this is crystal clear!
I’m trying to explain what I have learned and learning as I go with the help of my friend Chris.
When I explain it in the video, I try to make it simple so anyone can get somewhat of an understanding without all the details. I always have to keep in mind that chemistry is complicated to most aquarists they don’t have a detailed understanding of how it all works.
It is not just do this do that, every system is different but this can be a starting point to achieve the ultimate goal...increase ph with a stable Alkalinity.
@@aciaquaculture cool. Here I dose soda ash. This way I raise pH and keep my Kh stable around 9 dkh. pH stays between 8.1 and 8.4 which is not as stable as I would like. But before I go crazy about this, I think I need to replace my pH probe lol.
Another thing people tend to forget in regards to having a hard time keeping higher pH is the amount of bioload, specially fishes! The less water volume in the system to a considerably high amount of fishes, the worse is to keep the pH stable. The tube feeding the skimmer with some "fresh air" is so minor in most cases. Air circulation in the room is what is important. Water surface agitation. No covers nor enclosed canopies and cool water temperature. All have influences in gas exchange/ CO2-O2 relationship.
Believe it or not, but to much surface aggetration can also be a problem. I was sucking air from outside raising ph but surface aggetation was undoing the good. People need to realize the tank wants to come into equilibrium with the inside air. If the air has more CO2 and you aggetate the surface too much, your just putting it into equilibrium faster.
@@DisplacedCzech The balance between the air in the room and the CO2/O2 relationship will be eventually reached anyways. The surface agitation is a rule to maintain that balance at it's best at all times and therefore needs to be applied in any system. If you need to correct any problem with the excessive CO2 in the air of the room whee the aquarium is located you need to do anyways. To think that lowering surface agitation will "help" you in any way is simply to fool yourself. Again, the surface agitation is a must in any reef system. The remedy for lack of CO2 in a room is to somehow allow fresh air in that room.
I realy am a fan of chris and have watched all of his interviews multiple times but I am not sure about these theories because real chemists (with degrees) on forums explain this totally different. Please follow op on this because just stating these claims
Without following up on them without reactions from these chemist is imo not moving forward our understanding much.
@LJ I work side by side with a Marine Scientist/Chemist on this method who is well known in the industry. He does not participate on forums. I maintain over 15,000 gallons of marine life. The last thing I would do is put these animals in harms way or give advice that would be harmful. The results are in my daily observations. Many industry professionals have also implemented this method and are seeing great results. Sometimes different methods work and neither are wrong. My goal is to maintain a stable and higher PH.
@@aciaquaculture Randy Holmes farley has written articles and comments about this, and I ve read a discussion on this topic from chemists on a dutch forum. They explain it as the hydroxide adding kh to the water and upping the ph. I cant find anything about percipitated or locked up calciumcarbonates being freed by hydroxide. Your calcium should go down if they are right. It would be great if your theory is right! Does your chemist have his theory explained somewhere?
@@laurens6267 you are correct. The calcium does drop and believe me it was hard for me not to chase it.
After 5 months the Alk has slowly fallen back to our target levels and then the Ca reactor started running for 6hr per day and then 12hr and now in the last 2 days it hasn’t shut off.
The Ca has finally started to rise. This is the balance that takes patients to achieve.
With the low Ph and the presence of higher CO2 levels ionic balance is nearly impossible to achieve.
It is the same as ocean acidification but in a closed system. PH being boosted via hydroxides prevents this from occurring.
When I explain this in the video, I’m trying to make it less technical so anyone can grasp the concept. I appreciate your question and hope this clarifies things a little better.
@@laurens6267 Agree, there were a few things said that is simply not true and the chemistry behind it does not add up.
@@michaelrandy8764 The balance between kalkwasser, alk buffer as "soda ash" will keep pH range higher than only kalk or only soda ash IME. The amount offered to the system needs to be balanced out. If calcium reactor is also in the equation the balance will need more tune-up. After you get the clock machine going the results are solid. Alk and pH are close friends and I believe what Chis is trying to show is that "chasing pH" (by simply monitoring it) will be easier than testing alkalinity.
Yes, would be so great to have his chemist friend to come here and write some of this.
excellent topic! thanks for sharing!
This explains exactly the issues I've been having in my AIO! Got PH up, corals growth took off, but alkalinity went from 8.25 to over 10dkh! I havn't added any alkalinity to my system for months. Finally this week the levels are at 8.5 and almost in my sweet spot where I will start to finally start dosing alk again. WONDERFUL video!
how did you get your pH up?
Your just removing the co2 and allowing ur alk to turn to carbonate and not bi carbornate. Test kits test carbonate and not bi carbonate. Bi carbonate is carbonate with a co2 attached to it.
@@wilsonline90 great question 🙋♀️
I'm in the same position, haven't read about the leaching anywhere else. Super helpful!
@@MakerofThingss I don't think there are carbonates leaching from the rocks in high pH or alkalinity bounding to rocks and sand in low pH. It's more likely the opposite. There's an equilibrium in the reactions of bicarbonates and co2. that way, no, co2 won't drop your alk. It may drop your pH and if in a high level of co2 (enough to drop pH under 7.8) , you may actually see the opposite just like in a calcium reactor but slower.
What happened that was he dosed NaOH and Ca(OH)2 to raise pH. That OH- reacted with the CO2 and you get bicarbonate. So, he raised his alk by dosing pH buffer. Very simple., No, it was not leaching from the rocks.
Is this a repeat. Agree pH is key, salinity close second. Don’t have to worry about natural day time fluctuations either.
If your alkalinity is where it should be your pH should be fine the guy does not make too much sense to me my pH drops early in the morning but in the afternoon it's about 8.3 I drip kalkwasser in my system 24/7 and never had a problem with ph
Yes, the relationship between pH and alkalinity are close. I think the message here is simply to "chase pH and not Alkalinity" in a sense that if pH is doing good you alkalinity will most likely be in the correct range. It's just another way to look at it.