Over Proofing & Under Proofing: Explained | How to Tell the Difference
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- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
- What happens when dough over ferments? As the yeast eats through the sugars in the dough it produces carbon dioxide which gets trapped in the gluten and makes the bread puff up. The longer the dough ferments the less food there will be left for the yeast and the longer it goes the more the gluten will start breaking down.
If the yeast runs out of food before it hits the oven it will not produce any more carbon dioxide during the first few minutes of baking and the bread will not rise. Yeast only starts dying at a temperature of 50C (120F). So, when the bread goes in the oven fermentation is accelerated because of the temperature increase and the yeast will keep active and produce gas until it reaches that critical point.
If the gluten breaks down before baking (this will happen in tandem with the yeast running out of food), then the structure of the bread will be compromised. Holes could appear on the surface letting the trapped fermentation gas escape instead of holding it in and making the bread rise.
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did u do a "kneading vid" for beginners..? i feel like all i am doing is squashing and turning...
@ChainBaker if you want another video idea- Panko is breadcrumbs made from bread cooked electrically(between two plates) instead of in an oven. How would you need to adjust dough recipes for a good result and how would you go about making a setup that works for the average home baker?
@@OPIXdotWORLD Look for his Principles Of Baking Series.
I appreciate that you emphasized practicing and making mistakes. Your format is really good and espouses a genuine love for bread and bread making, the "anti-hack" of baking channels.
comparison videos like this show a genuine love for learning as well, learning how to make your own bread instead of only following recipes
I just want to thank you so much for posting this video. I found it so incredibly valuable. After 2 years of making bread, I finally understand how to properly proof a sandwich loaf. I didn’t even realize I was overproofing until I watched your video. Now my results not only taste great, but now they look great too. Thank you so much!! 🙏🏻
As someone who is trying to up my game as a baker, this video is exceptionally important. I never would have figured out on my own what under-proofed and over-proofed breads look like. Now I know, and I know how to fix it.
This is really an amazing video. definitely a great example for people to learn from :)
I have a suggestion for a future video.
We hear all the time about hydration, from 55% for Italian pizza and up to 80% or even more for specialty breads etc.
I have never seen any video from anyone explaining why someone would use a low hydration or a high hydration when making dough.
I heard where you talk about it but I think people need to really understand hydration because it is a huge importance in any bread making.
I'm working on it ;D
Today was my third fail at baking sourdough bread so I came online to ask how to tell if the dough is under- or over proofed. Thankfully, I found your channel with this excellent explanation. Thank you! I really appreciate your encouraging remarks about learning from failing. I WILL learn this valuable procedure. In the meantime, family dogs get healthy treats from the fails when I've had my fill.
Great info! I used to more often than not have underproofed sourdough, was ready to give up. Now I tend to mix it in the evening, let it sit over night and watch the final proof. Much better results!
this was very helpful, thank you! The best part of learning to make bread is that even when you fail, you still get delicious bread! Its pretty difficult to screw up so badly that you make the bread taste bad.
👍 Toast. There's always toast. If you toast your mistakes, they are usually fine - and sometimes great.
I like your analytical and positive approach. Making mistakes gives you the opportunity to recognize the over or under proofed mistake and offers many other areas for improvement. I tend to make dough that is too large and then if i screw up, I have 4 lbs of less than perfect bread, but it is always it very edible and better than any store bought bread. Thanks!
Love videos like this. Examining principles and results so you can work it out yourself in varied conditions
Recently discovered this channel. Love your style of videos and the way you relay the information! I am new at baking and love understanding the science behind it although it will take me multiple rewatches to fully understand the concepts. Thanks!
I really appreciate that way to teach a subject, by showing difference, false success, and what the correct result should look like.
Dude you really teaching how to bake from the basics, not just giving recipe like any other channels.
Thank you so much for this!!
I find it difficult to judge doubling in a round bowl so I take a small portion of the dough and put it in a 250ml/half pint straight sided mason jar that has been lightly oiled. Mark the dough height with an elastic or tape and ferment alongside the remainder. Not my idea but for me it’s much easier.
When making preferment I usually put it in a cup and mark it with a sharpie, but I never thought on taking a small portion of the dough to do the same.
Thanks for the hint!
Look at the Bread Code videos. That is his standard practice.
Good stuff, Charlie. Thank you. I know that when I was learning the basics as a beginner, I struggled with this more than anything else. I finally found my way, but I would have gone through a lot less angst if I had found you back then. Nearly quit a couple of times, I was so frustrated with dense, underproofed crumb (although I didn't know what it was at the time.). I know now it was a primarily a temperature thing but I was beyond frustrated. Thanks again for you great content, both recipes and tutorials.
Thank you so much for your videos. You have helped me improve my bread making skills greatly. I’m still making mistakes, but with the help of your videos, I’m learning tons and getting better. You’re awesome! :)
I got into bread making a little while ago (winter time) and was always annoyed my doughs weren't rising right and had that doughy texture with big bubbles. You made me realise they were under-proofed! Haven't done much this summer but will definitely give it another try. Thank you!!!
Thanks.
Your example of an underproofed bread loaf made me realize my bread was underproofed. Having fixed it, it's now lighter and airier.
your videos are always so informative! one of my favorite baking channels
Right to the heart of the matter, thank you. Nobody does it better!
Thank you so much for this videos! I had never made bread in my life and always viewed it as a mystery. These videos are helping me learn the principles behind baking so I can share food with friends and family.
Thank you for doing such an informative video. I have been baking bread for more than 10 years and still am not confident in my ability to judge when dough is ready for the oven. This really helps.
Man honestly your channel and your explanations.... everyone says this on every channel but you changed my life. Thank you. I love baking bread now and even sister's baby got into the cold proof (with a preferment just to see if you were right) mushing it up and laughing. Thanks again man. Don't ever stop this!
Cheers, Mike! Happy baking 😉
Love! love! your tests on different things in the doughs. It is all things I probably would try myself to see the differences. I also like to experiment. But WONDERFULLY you have done all of this for me. It is great how you list all the variables involved also. No matter how small. I am going to watch ALL your experiments. Just GREAT! thank you.
Thank you! 😎
a very good video, and thank you for that, the signs of over-fermentation and under-fermentation are explained very well
I just subscribed because you were able to effectively point me in the right direction regarding proofing. No hacks. No talking down to me. Just a solid strategy. Thank you!!
Welcome to the channel 😎
I’m making lots of mistakes and learning soooo much. Thanks for explaining the principles behind the results.
I love LOVE your comparison series
Quite an informative video - thanks for sharing what to look for in under/over-proofed dough. I'm sure I will reference it from time to time. And as far as I'm concerned - all of your recipes that I have baked have seemed to work for me. 🤩🤩
You have the skills! 😎
Baking art is a technique, it's all about the right amounts and adjustments
Great video
THanks. I see now how I overproofed my last attempt. THe crust was way full of holes. And the way you put it was easily understandable.
Verified my thought with this vid. Gradually learning these things but it does take time. The feel, look, texture(s) --- doughs and breads ... :) all a success because I learn --- but LOL, results have varied. All work is by hand which is perfectly fine, really gives the "hands-on" thing a true meaning but definitely best understanding. I'll continue to learn ---- Thanks Charlie!!! Be Safe
Thank you for sharing your knowledge! Very helpful ! Cheers from Quebec !
Love your videos!
Very imformative and has made this beginner baker making fresh breakfast for the family. There's nothing like seeing your kids eat your stuff, and one or more start to want to try their hands at doing the same.
Or the yells of "Daddy's pizza is the best!", even when given the choice to buy from store.
This was great! I learn so much from you, thank you!!
i had a bad day i over proof all things today at work .but watching this video i am happy let say it was a practice day hh
Your comment saying “go ahead and make mistakes” cracked me up. It was like you were speaking directly to me! It seems that’s all I do. Your vids are just the absolute BEST! Thank you!
😁
Another great video - thanks Charlie! Our place tends to be cold in winter as we dont like to over heat the house as the are just not built for the cold weather (crazy in Australia right!). So I've been using a small convention oven that I can run at a min of 40C - too hot right but I can timer it on and off to at least get closer to 25C and some better proofing happening that wont happen in our 15-18C kitchen.
That plastic, shiny look on the bottom has been my telltale sign of overproofing, but I was never sure if it was correct. In this video, it does look like your overproofed loaf has that look on the bottom while the other two have a nicer matte look, like a pumice stone. I always wondered how to tell when it's underproofed though, and this is really helpful. I have had some loaves that tear and have dense parts around the bubbles. I assumed it was undercooked, but in retrospect it was probably underproofed.
Thank you for focusing by using a simple recipe. I now tend to monitor the state of the dough rather than the time. There are so many experiments that play with each parameter in the dough. I usually go for a 25% to a 50% rise and then into the refrigerator for a considerable time giving the bread time to develop flavor. What I end up with tends to work for me but ultimately it is a combination of tips and tricks that I have picked up from many sources so I can use the best of each source when making bread. Most of the time I still do my baking in my Dutch oven. That results in the experiment about whether to start with the oven cold or hot and to finish baking I just place the bread of the rack and let the bread brown to a desired finish.
Thanks for the info. The poolish concept is another topic I haven't utilized enough. Again, it can be studied in so many ways. Bread making is a long journey. lol
Thanks for excellent explanation! Been having overproofing issues. Bread is still delicious but now can work on fixing the problem 😄
Excellent video, great topic. Thanks!
I've been casually baking for years, and it was always so hard to tell what exactly went wrong with the dough. Thank you for explaining these things!
When I ask myself what went wrong, I always know the answer: One of about 10 things. 😉
Chainbaker helps me to at least make an educated guess.
This is so true i would think all of them were perfect. Thank you so much
Proofing can be a challenge for me so this video is very helpful. Thank you.
I cold bulk ferment and waiting for dough to proof tests my patience. Yesterday I baked a loaf that now I see was underproofed after 4 hours of proofing. Mind you, it is cold at the moment and I don't turn on the heating during the day. It still looked and tasted great though.
Very useful video - concise & to the point. Many thanks!
Great video, very informative. I believe I've been over proofing in the loaf pan.
OMG. more gold. I've made fools crumb. lesson learned. thank you
Amazing video. Thanks so much!
Your videos are very helpful!
Oh God thank you I now know what I have been doing wrong. All my breads have been doing the same thing when I put them in the oven. They deflate getting flat on top and are denser then they should be. I baked again today and took your advice to not over proof and I got a nice looking even crumb bread.
Definitely had some under and over priced breads. This was really useful to see side by side comparison
I've been baking homemade bread for a few years now, typically sticking to the tried and true recipes and procedures that I'm familiar with...but I lacked the basic knowledge of baking bread. I always ended up with a loaf of bread, but the quality varied greatly. Since I have found your videos, I have learned so much about baking. Your video format is so fun to watch...entertaining AND informative, and it has given me the knowledge and confidence to try new recipes and styles of bread (including your rough puff pastry), and I'm not afraid to make a mistake, because my result is (usually) still edible, and my wife still loves me (and loves the homemade bread). Thank you, again, and I'll be watching for your next videos, although I have plenty of old videos to catch up on still! Much love and God Bless - from Illinois, USA.
Cheers, Rob! 😊
The nicest things about the 'mistakes' bread, is that they are usually still far better, and cheaper than what you could buy in a store.
That, and the joy of when it looks and tastes exceptional (and I can achieve this more and more with the help of these videos) really makes it a worthwhile venture.
Thanks, it was one think i was recently looking for my bread making
Excellent topic, excellent video. Thank you so much!
Always makes me laugh when you mention comments about the recipe being wrong. Thanks for another great video. I also appreciate you talking about other flours and such.
Under proofed some buns and this helped explain why they came out the way they did
Thank you for the lesson!
Great video! My proofing time is usually dictated by how hungry I am... and I think my oven is not efficient...pre-heated, baking 1 1/2lb of dough, 80% hydration at 260-270oC, usually takes 1h.
Thank you for this very useful video!!
Thank you , good to see your work. Chris, Polish baker Chicago.
Cheers, Chris! 😎
Very nice, these kind of vids are so nice, thanks
So helpful! Thanks!
What a beautiful way to learn by addressing the factors that can influence the final outcome indeed you remain The Genius of geniuses and we thank you for taking part on this planet sharing Paradise in the form of information clarity
I'm glad you found it helpful 😁
There are so many variables you can ONLY learn by your mistakes. Very good video. My dough is proving right now. Off to check the temperature...
i really needed this, thank you so much
Thanks, you explain very well.
Once again another expert at his trade showing the ifs and buts of baking bread. Too many so-called bread makers on this channel who have no idea what they are doing. I have been baking bread well over 25 years in my trade as a Cook (Chef is a position not a profession:-) ) and learn techniques and tips every day. Thank you very much for your lesson.
Cheers, Rob! The more I learn the more I realize how much more there is to learn.
Man I've tried many of your recipes and ever since you became an addict to me i watch your videos whenever im free , you're literally a baking school to me ❤
Thank you. I've been making my own bread for many years but I tried a new recipe today and everything went wrong....My gut feeling told me it should have been kneaded for longer....then, when the oven was getting up to temperature - they deflated in the oven :(. That being said, they'll still be eaten (with soup). I'm not wasting them.
I know it's not the yeast that's the problem because the yeast worked perfectly yesterday...so it's going to be trial and error but I'll get there with it. It's hard to know what to look for at times - with new recipes because we become so familiar with our regular recipe. However, I found this video really helpful - thank you x
Sooo helpful thank you so much!
Good demonstration
Great video!
Wow your video is great! the best explanation, thank you! I will go keep making mistakes!
Thanks for the useful video. I usually make under proofed bread
subscribed. Thank you. Great contents.
I just love this guy. Woow, you are the chief baker bakist baking. Loool
with these vids I can troubleshoot my baking process a lot easier. I think the hard part about baking is that you know there's something wrong but you don't know what is happening. Been cooking since forever (still got a lot to learn tho) so I thought what could go wrong and tried baking. Now I understand how my friends feel when they're cooking something that seems fairly easy to beginner for me lol. Baking is pretty fun tho imo. Thanks
Very very very very very good learning thank you
Your a great teacher!!!!
🙏
I think it is often hard to tell, whether my dough has been fermenting too long or not long enough, since I often keep it in the fridge for several days. But it always tastes good, although the right time for the final proof is hard to guess for cold dough. Anyway, I would eat each of the 3 breads you made in the video. And I have often seen fool's crumb on breads bought from bakers.
you may hate me but i'm always fermenting my breads in loose ways, never measure temperature, can forget about timer, etc. And even despite all that I have yet never baked an inedible loaf of bread, lol. Actually I enjoyed almost every loaf I made, real failures only came from mistakes in percentages of ingredients and hence not related to proofing timings. Under, over, whatever - everything tastes great :D Your observation videos are very precious anyway because it's so useful to know how various kinds of doughs look like and how to distinguish them visually. Thanks
If it works - it works! :)
I only had One, ever, that I would call inedible/and that's when I decided to experiment and just 'wing it'...after I had had numerous successes.
Obviously it was pretty bad, my chickens wouldn't even eat it, and that's saying something.
this video was great
Over proofing was my early bread baking hubris --- I thought, while thinking I knew everything (I knew little), the longer I did the final rise the more rise I would get in the final product, but the loaves would then fall in. Or if I tried to score the loaf with a lame it was delicate and would deflate like a balloon. The bread was still edible, but a long way from perfect. That's the journey, though, and that's what I love most about the bread baking. Well, maybe eating the bread is up there, too.
nicely done
Kismet, I just massively overfermented my loaves because I had to leave for several hours during bulk fermentation.
I did my best to degas and I chilled them in the fridge. We will see what I have tomorrow.
Always a treat to have a new video from you!!
Edit, Charlie, quick question. Can divide and shape be done before bulk fermentation? Because in the video you divided the dough into 3 after bulk fermentation.
When I make big batch of dough around 5kg, I always divide the dough after final mixing because they're going for a long sleep in the fridge (around 2 days)
I don't see why not! :)
Thank you soo much.
When I started making bread I always overproofed massively, since I had no idea that it was a bad idea, and the bread would collapse in the oven or before baking. With the current yeast I use I proof only forty minutes or so.
This was very interesting for me, I always thought, more proof= more fermentation= more flavour. And although my bread tastes great, I always wondered why I don't get much oven spring. I'll proof less next batch. 👍🍞
Thank you.
😃, “hello my bakers” nice line👍
I still overproof my sourdough a lot. My last one was finally just right. I hope I remember how to do it next time. 😀
I didn't know this was a thing. I just left my dough rise until it stopped. No one ever said leave your dough with some rise left in it. They did say wait till it has doubled but not that going beyond that was bad. I guess I have to get my hands dirty.
Finally learnt an important thing about baking here: if bakers tell you that your dough should double in volume during bulk fermentation, they actually mean double in diameter. So the dough actually increases 8x in volume, instead of doubles....
Sometimes I don't English properly 🤣 Doubled in size would be the best way to describe it I guess.
In the vid you talk about different things that can affect bread. Recently I saw something that said things like chlorine or fluoride in tap water and the hardness of our water can affect doughs.
You can use all purpose flour and yes they can definitely be cooked on a grill.
Thanks, man
I was starting to wonder if my last bread loaf had over-fermented but based on the crumb structure it was just right.
I just wish it was more dense and chewy instead of airy like normal sandwich bread.
I need to explore more recipes.
Try the sourdough from this channel, it sounds like what you're looking for. It's not as hard to do as a person might think, even when you have to make your own starter from scratch (that's what I found the most challenging/but now I have it going, I don't think it will ever die...going on a couple of years now).
Have a buttermilk bread recipe that I'm playing with.... 1st time added milk by volume, seemed a bit too dry so splashed more in... No idea how much. Next two batches were by math and way too sticky. Trying to find my way back to the really good first time! Will keep going as it is pretty tasty, even the minor flubs 😊
It seems a lot of people struggle with sourdough proofing and it’s not surprising because the time it takes can vary so wildly based on how active the starter is and temperature.
At this time of year I find myself needing to use ice water to keep the dough from fermenting to quickly and placing the dough in the fridge for final fermentation. For example, today 13:00 PDT, the outside temperature is 93 def F (33.8 C), while the indoor temperature is 82 deg. F (27.8C).