Philip II - Prologue | Greece and the Barbarian Macedonians
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- Опубліковано 31 бер 2017
- In order for us to understand Philip II's achievements and story its important for us to look at the states that inhabit the Balkans and Greek peninsula. We also take a look at the system of monarchy that rules over the divided and volatile lands of Macedonia.
And if you were wondering what Crete was doing during our story? Well really just sweet FA.
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Credit for the music:
/ charlatanalley
Tune in next time as we start Philip II's tale in full swing as a hostage in Thebes to the soon to be King of a troubled Macedonia
Philip II was a fascinating monarch who lead an interesting life, thanks for creating this series! His story deserves to be told! Philip II and his actions directly and indirectly affected huge swathes of world history....
He was Macedonian 🇲🇰🇲🇰🇲🇰
@@veraplevnarovski-ripiloski4063 Not FYROMian🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬
Given the overwhelming evidence of archeological discovery and the large
historical paper trail left to us, there is no dispute as to the Greekness of the
Macedonians eg. Stravon the ancient geographer, when defining the bounds
Of the Greek world says simply: “...macedonia is also Greece “, basically what all
Greeks have known since time immemorial.This is but one small
Piece of information amongst hundreds. There is no ‘bone of contention’ as to the
Hellenism of the Macedonians. They are simply, Greeks. This is an unwavering fact.
There's obviously a bone of contention, since so many people contend it.
@@hamarbiljungskile8953 with fake facts.
bobcat wildcat
You have to understand that there is a debate and argument these days whether Alexander and his people were Macedonian or Greek.
Theres a lot of facts out there, some claiming Alexander and the Macedonians were Greek and others saying they weren’t.
The actual story and events in history speak for themselves and are greater evidence than most so called “facts”.
And you have to admit that the case for Alexander being Macedonian and not Greek is much much stronger than him being Greek.
Greece has a few points they argue with, such as;
-They spoke Greek
-They played in the Olympics
- they had Greek religion
- Macedon was a city state
- he spread Hellenic culture with the Greek language
But the Macedonian arguments are things such as;
- they didn’t speak Greek that’s why they were actually called “barbarians” a true fact and a title only for non Greeks
- based on that our argument must be true that they didn’t participate in the Olympics because only Greeks were allowed and no barbarians. Philip participated because he conquered Greece but he didn’t let any other Macedonians participate because the Greeks would’ve protested.
- even if they did have a Greek religion how does that make them Greek?? Before Macedon came to power, the Greeks were more powerful and influential in the area and people learn religion and culture from the people around them.
-at that time the whole of Greek land was made up of city states.Meaning a city and the surrounding area. For example thebes was a city, the city state was all around thebes, the same with Sparta and Athens. They were cities. Macedon wasn’t a “city state”. It was a country with cities inside it like pella, where Alexander was born.
- Alexander grandfather was called a philhelene which meant friend of Greeks. I assume you speak English well so you would understand that calling someone who is Greek, “a friend of Greeks” wouldn’t make sense.
- the Greeks continually resisted and had to be subdued with force. That’s what the battle of chaeronea was about. The conquering of Greece by its northern neighbors the Macedonians.
The thracians and Illyrians weren’t Greek and neither were the Macedonians.
- the Greeks fought against Alexander and the Macedonians. They joined the Persians and later the Romans. Why would they do that if Alexander was trying to create a Greek empire and why would they fight against their own empire together with the romans???
Alexander destroyed the city of thebes and sold survivors into slavery. Why would he do that if he was Greek???
-Alexander was always known as Alexander the Macedonian king of Macedonia, never as Alexander the Greek!
- Alexander chose the “koine” language which wasn’t a Greek language but a language made up of different languages that was spoken for administrative purposes by people of higher status as the language for his empire, because he was interested in uniting the world and bringing everyone together. Thats the language the bible was translated in, not Greek. The original language of the ancient Greeks was Ancient Greek. Koine and Ancient Greek are not the same language. Todays Greek language is closer to koine, not the original Ancient Greek.
- if Macedonia was Greek, why was it always a separate country to Greek land throughout the whole of history, for over 2000 years??? Why is it shown as a separate country and nation on maps of every empire and map anywhere in the world??
- if Macedonia and the Macedonians were Greek, why are they mentioned separately in 100’s of historical qoutes and sources by many different ancient historians?????
- if Macedonia was Greek why wasn’t it liberated together with the rest of Greece in 1821???
- if Macedonia was Greek, why are the Macedonians and Macedonia mentioned and referred to separately in the bible????
As you can see, the case for Macedonia being just Macedonian and not Greek, is much stronger and makes a lot more sense than the case of Macedonia being Greek.
So if Macedonia isn’t Greek, and has always been just Macedonian, then we are not some slavs who decided to walk down to Macedonia and call themselves Macedonians, but we’re the real Macedonians who have been living in the same land with the same name and the same flag of Alexander for well over 2000 years.
Also how can ancient Macedonians be Greek when there has been an ancient Macedonian DNA discovered and a separate ancient Greek DNA which are not related and completely different to one another by the analysts in Madrid and by the igenea swiss institute.
Look up “the sub saharan origin of Greeks”
Also look up “Y DNA haplogroups in Europe”
You’ll see that Greeks have mainly the E1b1b (Africa) haplogroup, which makes sense because they’re the mycenaeans who came from the other side of the Mediterranean and settled on Greek land.
Macedonians have the i2 haplogroup, which is the oldest haplogroup in the Balkans and has been there for 1000’s of years so its not possible that they’re slavs who came down from north or Central Europe in the 6th century.
How many empires were there throughout history !!! If the Macedonian empire wasn’t Greek, but simply Macedonian, like how true history shows, then Greece really never had an empire or ruled anything.
After the Macedonians with Philip and Alexander conquered the Greeks.... the Greeks wouldn’t be free again until 1821 until they were liberated from the Ottoman Empire, while Macedonia was still under ottoman rule until 1913. Now that’s the true history!!!
Hamarbi Ljungskile even after DNA testing Greeks are still trying to steal Macedonian history;
HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks (2001) was a study conducted by Dr. Arniaz and other scholars in a top flying Spanish University. This study uses HLA genes to establish the African dimension of the roots of ancient Greece.
According to the Arniaz study, …Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. Both Greeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 alleles, such as *0305, *0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 and *1310. Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. The time period when these relationships might have occurred was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displacement of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt. See Arnaiz-Villena A, et.al: HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks. Tissue Antigens. 2001 Feb; 57(2): 118-27
There is a fraudulent claim (by those with idealogical investments in the topic) on the Internet that this study has been “retracted” or “refuted.” The study is perfectly valid. Sub-Saharan-specific and quasi-sub-Saharan-specific alleles were definitely detected in the Greek population at the DRB1 locus, and this is not open to question.
@@WatchmanofMKDN you got it all wrong from the beginning. Greece doesn't say that Alexander was not Macedonian but he was Greek. We say that he was Macedonian, but Macedonians WERE GREEKS. Like Athenians or Spartans. There wasn't some kind of Union between them. They just had too many cultural, religious and lingual bonds.
Came to watch from reddit and after watching this i must say this is a great channel. Keep up the good work!
Thanks for that!
@@ArchaiaHistoria Hello Archaia Istoria. Don't want to spam you, just want to make sure you read the following. I know you agree with the Greekness of Classical Macedonians, just want to emphasize a few things about the use of the word "barbarian".
There is a very big misconception about the Classical use of the word "barbarian". Initially the Greeks used the term barbarian for all non-Greek-speaking peoples, including the Egyptians, Persians, Medes and Phoenicians, emphasizing their otherness. According to Greek writers, this was because the language they spoke sounded to Greeks like gibberish represented by the sounds "bar..bar..", the alleged root of the word βάρβαρος, which is an echomimetic or onomatopoeic word. In other words, it meant to describe an incomprehensible speech. However, just because for example an Athenian might have found a certain Greek dialect incomprehensible, that doesn't mean it wasn't Greek. For example, modern Greek speakers can hardly understand much of Tsakonian Greek, yet both languages are Greek. Same with the Macedonians, who were in fact Greek speakers, and their dialect was akin to that of Aetolians and Acarnanians, as Roman historian Livy attests, who wrote of the Macedonians, "Aetolians, Acarnanians, and Macedonians, men speaking the same language" or in Latin "Aetolos, Acarnanas, Macedonas, eiusdem linguae homines", Titus Livius (Livy), The History of Rome, Book 31, chapter 29. Aetolians and Acarnanians spoke a North-West Doric dialect by the way, and interestingly enough the famous Pella curse tablet ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pella_curse_tablet ), a text representing the ancient Macedonian language, shows a North-West Doric dialect as well, therefore corroborating Titus Livius (Livy). Furthermore, in various occasions, the term was also used by Greeks, especially the Athenians, to deride other Greek tribes and states (such as Epirotes, Eleans, Macedonians, Boeotians and Aeolic-speakers) but also fellow Athenians, in a pejorative and politically motivated manner. Here more about the way it was used, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbarian#Etymology .
A lot has been written because Demosthenes called Philip a "barbarian". The reason is simple: Demosthenes was a pro-democrat Athenian and Philip was his greatest political enemy. You see, Macedonia was a monarchy and an emerging power in the Greek affairs, and thus a threat to the Athenian democratic supremacy. I will repeat it here once more: the ancient Greeks - particularly the Athenians, like Demosthenes - often used the word "barbarian" to insult and/or mock other Greeks. For example, Aeschines called Demosthenes himself a "barbarian", Demosthenes called Philip, a Macedonian, and Meidias, an Athenian, both "barbarians", etc..
Here are a few examples of Greeks insulting other Greeks by calling them "barbarians":
Aeschines: "But to be free from accusation, that was a thing which depended upon fortune, and fortune cast my lot with (referring to Demosthenes, who was an Athenian) a slanderer, a barbarian, who cared not for sacrifices nor libations nor the breaking of bread together." (Aeschines, "On the Embassy", 2.183)
Demosthenes: "And yet, though he has thus become the possessor of privileges to which he has no claim, and has found a fatherland which is reputed to be of all states the most firmly based upon its laws, he seems utterly unable to submit to those laws or abide by them. His (Meidias, an Athenian) true, native barbarism and hatred of religion drive him on by force and betray the fact that he treats his present rights as if they were not his own-as indeed they are not." (Demosthenes, "Against Meidias", 21.150)
"Is he (Philip II, a Macedonian) not our enemy? Are not our possessions in his hands? Is he not a barbarian?" (Demosthenes, "Third Olynthiac", 16)
Atheneaus: "And when he was asked again, according to the account given by Hegesander, which were the greatest barbarians, the Boeotians (Greeks) or the Thessalians (Greeks), he said: 'The Eleans' (Greeks)." (Athenaeus, "The Deipnosophists", 8.42)
Plato: "Was he not reproaching Pittacus for not knowing how to distinguish words correctly, Lesbian as he was, and nurtured in a barbaric tongue?" (referring to the Aeolic dialect, one of the major Greek dialects) (Plato, "Protagoras", 341c)
Aristophanes: (Strepsiades, an Athenian), "a man ignorant and barbarian." (Aristophanes, "Clouds", 491)
As for the Macedonians, we know they were Greeks. They spoke Greek, shared the same religion, cults and customs with the rest of the Greeks, and they also identified themselves as Greeks:
"Now that these descendants of Perdiccas (the Macedonians) are Greeks, as they themselves say, I myself chance to know and will prove it in the later part of my history." (Herodotus, "Histories", 5.22)
Here is what modern academics say about the ancient Macedonians.
Nicholas Hammond, British scholar and expert on Macedon: "We must remember too that Philip and Alexander were Greeks." ( 'Alexander the Great', p.257)
Yale University: "We know the ancient Macedonians were fundamentally Greeks. That is to say they were Greek speakers and ethnically they were Greeks." (Yale University, "Introduction to Ancient Greek History, Philip, Demosthenes and the Fall of the Polis", 2007)
Take care and stay safe.
Δημήτριος Very very well written! Yes you’re exactly right. The point I was trying to make at the end of the day is Barbarian =/ Barbaric. You should come along to the discord if you haven’t already, it’s a good place to talk and discuss ancient history topics like this
@@ArchaiaHistoria Thanks a lot for taking the time to read my comment. As for discord, i do have an account there but i am not active, nonetheless i will join.
Why are people claiming he said macedonia isn't Greek. I'm pretty sure he explicitly stated the opposite.
You and me both
@@ArchaiaHistoria macedonians = dorian Greeks
and its kings of heracleide descedamt
@@ems4884 OK count the invasions etc but you can't deny that he have as our ancestors the people you claim as yours. Sorry that is the truth.
short life for north slavofobia
E M S true the irish speak english now because when the english empire controlled ireland for 800 odd years they banned Gaelic, anyway point being we speak english but are fair from english. I dont claim to be a viking because the founded Dublin
Great videos, look forward to more!
Sparta is the city, Lacedaemon is the kingdom.
You’re right, but I’ll generally (although rightly wrongly) refer to that region as “Sparta”.
Archaia Istoria Lacedaemon was made from 100 cities at least, as far as we know from the discovered references to their names and archeology. Same with Athens in Attica and its colonies.
Naming them in a way to imply they are one city , while they were kingdoms or states, puts a falsified view like Macedon kingdom was something different than, for example, Lacedaemon kingdom
Archaia Istoria
You have to understand that there is a debate and argument these days whether Alexander and his people were Macedonian or Greek.
Theres a lot of facts out there, some claiming Alexander and the Macedonians were Greek and others saying they weren’t.
The actual story and events in history speak for themselves and are greater evidence than most so called “facts”.
And you have to admit that the case for Alexander being Macedonian and not Greek is much much stronger than him being Greek.
Greece has a few points they argue with, such as;
-They spoke Greek
-They played in the Olympics
- they had Greek religion
- Macedon was a city state
- he spread Hellenic culture with the Greek language
But the Macedonian arguments are things such as;
- they didn’t speak Greek that’s why they were actually called “barbarians” a true fact and a title only for non Greeks
- based on that our argument must be true that they didn’t participate in the Olympics because only Greeks were allowed and no barbarians. Philip participated because he conquered Greece but he didn’t let any other Macedonians participate because the Greeks would’ve protested.
- even if they did have a Greek religion how does that make them Greek?? Before Macedon came to power, the Greeks were more powerful and influential in the area and people learn religion and culture from the people around them.
-at that time the whole of Greek land was made up of city states.Meaning a city and the surrounding area. For example thebes was a city, the city state was all around thebes, the same with Sparta and Athens. They were cities. Macedon wasn’t a “city state”. It was a country with cities inside it like pella, where Alexander was born.
- Alexander grandfather was called a philhelene which meant friend of Greeks. I assume you speak English well so you would understand that calling someone who is Greek, “a friend of Greeks” wouldn’t make sense.
- the Greeks continually resisted and had to be subdued with force. That’s what the battle of chaeronea was about. The conquering of Greece by its northern neighbors the Macedonians.
The thracians and Illyrians weren’t Greek and neither were the Macedonians.
- the Greeks fought against Alexander and the Macedonians. They joined the Persians and later the Romans. Why would they do that if Alexander was trying to create a Greek empire and why would they fight against their own empire together with the romans???
Alexander destroyed the city of thebes and sold survivors into slavery. Why would he do that if he was Greek???
-Alexander was always known as Alexander the Macedonian king of Macedonia, never as Alexander the Greek!
- Alexander chose the “koine” language which wasn’t a Greek language but a language made up of different languages that was spoken for administrative purposes by people of higher status as the language for his empire, because he was interested in uniting the world and bringing everyone together. Thats the language the bible was translated in, not Greek. The original language of the ancient Greeks was Ancient Greek. Koine and Ancient Greek are not the same language. Todays Greek language is closer to koine, not the original Ancient Greek.
- if Macedonia was Greek, why was it always a separate country to Greek land throughout the whole of history, for over 2000 years??? Why is it shown as a separate country and nation on maps of every empire and map anywhere in the world??
- if Macedonia and the Macedonians were Greek, why are they mentioned separately in 100’s of historical qoutes and sources by many different ancient historians?????
- if Macedonia was Greek why wasn’t it liberated together with the rest of Greece in 1821???
- if Macedonia was Greek, why are the Macedonians and Macedonia mentioned and referred to separately in the bible????
As you can see, the case for Macedonia being just Macedonian and not Greek, is much stronger and makes a lot more sense than the case of Macedonia being Greek.
So if Macedonia isn’t Greek, and has always been just Macedonian, then we are not some slavs who decided to walk down to Macedonia and call themselves Macedonians, but we’re the real Macedonians who have been living in the same land with the same name and the same flag of Alexander for well over 2000 years.
Also how can ancient Macedonians be Greek when there has been an ancient Macedonian DNA discovered and a separate ancient Greek DNA which are not related and completely different to one another by the analysts in Madrid and by the igenea swiss institute.
Look up “the sub saharan origin of Greeks”
Also look up “Y DNA haplogroups in Europe”
You’ll see that Greeks have mainly the E1b1b (Africa) haplogroup, which makes sense because they’re the mycenaeans who came from the other side of the Mediterranean and settled on Greek land.
Macedonians have the i2 haplogroup, which is the oldest haplogroup in the Balkans and has been there for 1000’s of years so its not possible that they’re slavs who came down from north or Central Europe in the 6th century.
How many empires were there throughout history !!! If the Macedonian empire wasn’t Greek, but simply Macedonian, like how true history shows, then Greece really never had an empire or ruled anything.
After the Macedonians with Philip and Alexander conquered the Greeks.... the Greeks wouldn’t be free again until 1821 until they were liberated from the Ottoman Empire, while Macedonia was still under ottoman rule until 1913. Now that’s the true history!!!
Watchman of MKDN I will start as you, you have to understand that what you write as proofs are all logical assumptions, no actual finding has ever been discovered and in all cases it’s half the truth in order to prove something not right.
I will give a few examples and if you like I will take the time to answer all one by one to explain you, IF you are willing to really read them.
The dna study you are referring is a study that is widely not accepted, we hear dna tests and we don’t realize this is very general and not explaining the study. He checked specific markers in the dna, not all dna. In the same study he finds similarity between Japanese and Spanish people in these certain markets. So it is essentially very easy to prove what you want IF you check only the markers that match what you want to prove.
There is also a dna study proving that Kalas and Greeks are not related, while they claim to be origin by Alexander’s army. This is study is very correct! Only one problem. It studies mitochondrial dna. Mitochondrial dna we get ONLY by our mothers. So that study what proven? That Alexander didn’t had women as soldiers :p
Regarding the so called barbarian and so called not in olympics and general the wars and allies among Greeks. Firstly we have a lot testimonies about their participation in olympics, so really no idea how that comes out. By the way Thracian people OFC they are Greek!! Every artifact they have has Greek language on it... not Persian or any other unknown language.
Now regarding the wars all the powers in Greece fought each other and damaged each other greatly at times. Regarding Thebes, Athens under Pericles eradicated islands that rebelled to Athenian hegemony and send Athenian settlers after. So you prove nothing. Further, even if that was not true... you have to think that all over globe same lineage people fought each other. When the Chinese states fought each other meant they were not all Chinese? Gallic tribes? Germanic tribes? Japanese? In fact name ONE that never fought each other! Nothing special.
Regarding religious texts. As there is the one addressed to Macedonians and in fact proves they are Greek, because refers to them as such. There is also the one addressed to Athenians, the one addressed to corinthians... this again argument is a typical of those arguments used in logic. Uses half truth to invent a reality. Suddenly if you read the rest ones, makes it no special at all.
Lastly I have a question that I hope you have the courage to answer along me.
You know about the argument Macedonians were speaking another language, that we found nothing written of it, while they had Greek names and even on their graves they were not writing on this language, but on Greek. I mean your grave is meant to have a meaning to your people, there is no need use an international language argument... for trade or whatever...
Still the question , do you see anywhere else in human history, a civilization to have a verbal only language, have knowledge of writing too, YET! Choose not write EVER the language alleged as his native? And write only a foreign language? We know of people writing and speaking more than one languages.... do we know yet ever, have knowledge of writing but choose to not write his native language???
Do you know of the Philotas trial argument? What you would say if I PROVE you the trick they play on you on that above argument. We shall do it together! You like?
Watchman of MKDN btw regarding the liberation of Macedonia again an empty argument. Hellenic people lived in all the known Greek world. Did they managed to liberate ever constantinoupoli? Did they managed to liberate minor Asia coastal area that has populated by Greeks? Could they do it and preferred not to do it? This is the real question.
When was liberated Dodekanisa islands? After ww2 from the Italians. Does it mean they were not Greeks because they could not liberate them? Since liberated at 1950 must be less Greek than Macedonians by your logic?
What sort of desperate logic is this? To say who was liberated first as an argument who is Greek or not?
Another real question... WHO liberate Macedonia?? Greeks when they managed. You said it yourself ottoman -> Empire
Thesprotians ... not Thespotians. You left out the 'r'
The title ''Barbarian Macedonians'' is not appropriate. Ancient Macedonians participated in major Greek councils (eg Amphictyonic) and all major 4 athletic (Olympic games) and cultural events of Greece, were you couldn't participate if you weren't Greek, and had specific regulations in their Monarchy. The majority of the Macedonian clans were of Hellenic origin except 2 Illyrian tribes which their warlords were under the Macedonian king's rule. The feudal structure enstranged them to advance politically in to what their southern brothers already reached.
If you watch the video you’ll see the title is tongue and cheek. The ancient Macedonians were very Greek like you say but still definitely seperate from the southern Greek polises.
I think he uses it in an ironic way.
Then why did greeks call them barbarians
(Hes saying it sarcastically)
very gut Alessandro - ALEXANDROS I VERY PROUT YOU HAF THE NAME FROM MY KING.MAKEDONIA IS GREEK
Alessandro Crotone didn’t the Macedonians force themselves into the Olympic Games after king Philip took over? Stop reading your propaganda history buddy Barbadian meaning non Greek people got you triggered huh? Lollll today Greeks = Christian Turks
An important story. Thanks for telling.
So wait, the guys helping the Spartans in 300 are listed as Arcadians, but didn't the Spartans use Messenia and Arcadia as essentially non voluntary tribute states? Should they not have been depicted as Achaeans? Or was the relationship different at an earlier stage?
19:21 Could you give me the ancient sources that mention this event?
What are the sources for this video?
I've always wondered why a powerful dynasty like the Macedonian abruptly collapsed as soon as it reached its apex.
Quite like the Qin dynasty.
Also they spoke Koine Greek not doric greek. Koine Greek was Attic- Ionic subgroup. Not Doric
About The Companion Cavalry in this era, did they equipped and fought in the same way as the way they did in Philip II and Alexander III reigns?
Macedonian participation in the Olympic Agons.
1. the king Alexander I (Αλέξανδρος Α’) participated in the 80th Olympic Games (460 BC) being second to Torymbas of Thessaly;
2. the king Archelaus I (Αρχέλαος Α’) participated in the 93d Olympic Games (408 BC) winning the 4 horses charriot race. He also participated in the Pythic Games in Delphi;
3. the king Philip II (Φίλιππος Β’) participated three times: in the 106th Olympic Games (356 BC), in the 107th Olympic Games (352 BC) and in the 108th Olympic Games (348 BC);
4. Cliton (Κλείτων) participated in the 113d Olympic Games (328 BC);
5. Damasias of Amphipolis (Δαμασίας ο Αμφιπολίτης) participated in the 115th Olympic Games (320BC);
6. Lampus of Philippi (Λάμπος ο Φιλιππήσιος) participated in the 119th Olympic Games (320 BC);
7. Antigonus (Αντίγονος) participated twice: in the 122d (292 BC) and the 123d Olympic Games (288 BC);
8. Seleucus (Σέλευκος) participated in the 128th Olympic Games (268 BC);
9. the woman Bilistiche (Βιλιστίχη) participated twice: in the 128th (268 BC) and in the 129th Olympic Games (264 BC).
By the way, just because Athens, for its own political reasons, and more precisely Demosthenes would propagandize against Philip II saying he was a Barbarian, the Athenian Isocrates would look upon Philip II as the Savior that would unite all the Greeks against the Persians.
“In 346 B.C. Isocrates addressed Philip as one capable of taking the lead, first in combining the Greek States into a union, and secondly, in leading them to conquer the barbarian.2 (www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0075%3Achapter%3D6%3Asection%3D4#note2)
The ten years of desultory hostilities between Philip and Athens had now been ended by the peace of Philocrates, and Isocrates, thinking that Amphipolis, for which they had been fighting, was an undesirable possession for either party, imagined and hoped that the peace might be made permanent.”
J.F. Dobson, The Greek Orators (www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0075%3Achapter%3D6%3Asection%3D4)
www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0075%3Achapter%3D6%3Asection%3D4#note2 (www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0075%3Achapter%3D6%3Asection%3D4)
Alexander competed in the olympics, something that only the Greeks were allowed to do. Macedonians were not considered barbarians but were considered fellow Greeks.
The rest of Greece looked down their noses at the Macedonians. They saw them as more than barbarians and less than Greeks.
@@Dap1ssmonk After Alexander won the battle of Granicus against Persia, he sent 300 golden armours to the Acropolis of Athens with the following message: “Alexander son of Philip, and all the Greeks except the Spartans send you the spoils taken from the barbarians inhabiting Asia.” Notice he says AND ALL THE GREEKS!
@@pitoblogg of course he’s say that, it was in his best interests to keep the Greeks under him happy. He was a Greek, but the Greeks were snobs, and saw him as lesser. That’s why at every opportunity under his father, and himself, the southern Greeks rebelled against him. The Macedonians saw themselves as Greek. That’s not what we’re debating here Slav.
@@Dap1ssmonk I’m not a Slav. I’m Greek. And your second comment is right many Greeks looked down on the Macedonians.
@@pitoblogg to be blunt, I assumed you were one of the modern Macedonians that flood any video that talks about Ancient Macedon’s comment section.
I discovered your channel earlier today. Good content! I just want to make two corrections, a broad one, and a particular one. In so far as we group Greek city states according to alliances, we have to realize that these existed at particular points in time for some overarching purpose, before they were dissolved. There were loose bonds of kinship between big cities and smaller ones, as in the case of Athens and her neighboring towns of Attica. These practically resulted in the formation of an archaic form of a state, but it was a unique condition. It's questionable to draw inferences from alliances such as the "Aetolian league" to mean that there were "states" in the Classical Greek period, which included all cities in a particular region. These are modern ideas we insert into the historical record to make sense of a way of life which is foreign to us. The Greeks were citizens of their individual cities, and each city was law unto itself. Autonomy was "king", and freedom or the lack thereof was measured by the degree of responsibility toward another polity. Alliances between city states were limited in scope and did not result in a unification of governmental bodies which exercised authority over the whole of the alliance. These were loose confederations maintained by common interest rather than shared administration. Drawing maps with borders between states is helpful, but erroneous. That's why Corinth doesn't fit with the narrative. But they weren't the only ones who joined whom ever suited them, as you yourself mention.
A secondary point is the attitude of the Spartans toward Greece. You mention that they were expansionist in their policy. That could not be further from the truth. As Donald Kagan explains convincingly in his massive study of the Peloponnesian war, the Spartans lost control of the Greek alliance against Persia precisely because of their indecisiveness in stretching forth to claim a more active role as an agent in Greek politics. If they so desired, they could have been Athens, laying claim to the foreign policy of each polity in the alliance in virtue of their military hegemony. They didn't want this, as they weren't expansionists. They wanted to maintain the status quo, even if that meant abandoning their allies, to the latter's displeasure. Everything in Spartan society was for the preservation of the status quo. War and expansion was a necessity, not a desire. As they engaged in the Persian wars and achieved fame and popularity, an increasing number of them began to abandon Spartan ideals of modesty and did in fact pursue a more aggressive foreign policy due to their newfound ambition, grounded in their success. These were rebuffed again and again, which tells us the majority opinion opposed interference abroad. The proof is in the pudding. The Athenians became nuisance to the whole of Greece and the entire Peloponnese, and even states outside it began to appeal to Sparta for action against them. The Spartans however were slow to act and indecisive when they finally did decide to wage war. These are not the marks of an expansionist state. The Romans - who were expansionist - would have taken preemptive action before their foreign policy was endangered. The Spartans persevered for so long and put up with so much, until the very fabric of Greek society had changed from oligarchy to democracy, until Athens became the most important player in the whole of Greece, and only then did they take action against Athens, which was limited in scope - decrease their power and change their constitution. This proved to be ineffective and inconsequential as a lasting cure to Athenian hegemony. We can see that militaristic≠expansionist.
Edit:
A final correction would go to the way in which the Macedonians were unGreek. I won't consider the linguistic or anthropological debate. I want to concentrate on what the Greeks themselves thought. Most of the mentions to Macedonia being unGreek come from later polemic sources. These were concerned with drawing a certain portrait of Macedonia, of a foreign conqueror coming to subject the free cities of Greece to the yoke of a king. However, by that time the Macedonians were indisputably Greek in their living. Even in prior times, their differences were not mainly cultural, linguistic, religious, or related with earlier Greeks frowning upon Macedonian practices of husbandry and agriculture. All Greeks had been farmers and shepherds, on par with the Macedonians, and those who had slaves worked alongside them. And so, the real reason the Greeks saw the Macedonians as foreign to them is because they were too far away from being relevant in Greek politics, in the classical period. They were too busy fending off attacks from their neighbors, as they were the frontier of the Greek world. Most Greeks never even thought of Macedonia, let alone consider it's Greekness. The main difference in customs between the Macedonians and the rest of the Greeks is in their respective forms of government, which is not essentially the difference between the former having a king and the latter not having one, but in whether the Macedonians lived in advanced versions of the polis - which consisted of a particular civic way of life, which did not exist at all in Macedonia until after the Peloponnesian war, with the exception of the coastal cities, which were impoverished, though they were poleis. In addition, the border you create to separate North from South has to be corrected. The coastal Greek cities in Macedonia and Thrace were Greek of the same sort as the Athenians. But according to your view, we would have to omit Epirus from the Greek world. They shared the same traits of living in a semi-tribal way which precluded them from sharing the common Greek heritage.
Welcome and thanks. You raise some good points and you are correct. I made this video very early on and looking back it has a number of generalisations and mistakes that I know of now. So do take that in to consideration. The map itself has been greatly improved on since then as you’ll see later on in the series. I think I missed out on Corinth, Argos, Arcadia, Arcarnania, etc.
Otherwise you’re pretty much on the money with everything. And Kagan is a great read/source, I’m just finishing up on his massive collection on the Peloponnesian War.
Herodotus on Macedonia being GREEK!!
m.ua-cam.com/video/jm3cXv0tgOA/v-deo.html
Your explanation is so close to the subject of former Yugoslavia if you like to explain it on your own way !
Like if you like to explain that Yugoslavia was one Nation in todays norms .
It was never One Nation or way of united people in one culture. Unification is an other thing but Federation is when many different nationalities are joined as a regional unit with self constitutional orders .
Just emagine why in Skandinavia there isn't one Nation Skandinavia or in Iberian peninsula one nation Iberia ( for example) in this new World .
If there is Republic Macedonia today , why you like to explain that they were Greks when we know that it was kingdom Makedon not Makedonia first , and than Macedonia Ptolomeic kingdom , and official Province Macedoniae as a continuation of todays nationality macedonian .
Never Tracean have made republic Trace , or Peonia republic Peonia or what so ever , but Macedonia did a nation Mcedonia by separate macedonian uprising out of Helenik uprising .
You can say now that Slavs came and made special Republic Makedonia !
Ha ha ha
Macedonians from 168 BC were never Greeks !
@Archaia Istoria great video. FYI you misspelled foreign as "foriegn", on two different slides.
I always get that spelt wrong, my bad.
Can you link sources for the information in the video please?
In general I think I mainly used "Philip II of Macedon" by Ian Worthington, possibly with other clarifying information from the internet here and there, although it was a long while ago that I made this video. But is there any specific information you want a source on?
Archaia Istoria Thanks for the reply and sorry about being late4 on my part. What I’m interested in mostly is the expansion of Macedonia from it’s core position on the peninsula, and also how Southern Greeks viewed other Hellenic societies on the outside. I always see people saying that they regarded some as barbarians or semi-barbarians though i haven’t seen any concrete instances of pointing to why they thought this outside of language, like if there are other cultural differences.
Culture between tribes as time passed became more and more closer but some specifics left as political-social difference. Try to understand cosmopolitanism as ancient phenomenon.
@ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ is МАКЕДОНИЈА Wow! That is so enlightening. Just goes to show that one must read widely and from many sources and always consider the authors' influences and neutrality (or lack thereof), and consider whether they are promoting or pushing a biased point of view, and also their motives. The reader must read between the lines and distinguish between fact and opinion in the writings.
It appears that what many modern-day historians (many of them strongly politicised or often receiving incentives) write today, clashes significantly with what the ancient historians wrote.
After all, history is written by the victors!
Thanks for these eye-opening links.
@ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ is МАКЕДОНИЈА Amazing information! I have a lot of reading to do on my day off.
15:50 not precisely correct. The Spartan diarchy was more of a military system, where one of the two kings would oversee outgoing (attacking) Spartan armies and the other would stay in Sparta to defend in case of an unexpected attack to the homeland (or a Helot revolt).
The actual political power came from an oligarchy, which saw at its head a five-man team called the Έφοροι (Eforoi). Those were the ones that commanded both internal and external policy, and sometimes even referendi came, where all Spartan males of age could vote, though only on certain occasions.
The Ephors were elected by popular assemblies, much like the Roman magistrates.
The real oligarchical power was held by the Gerusia, much like the Roman Senate.
I was born in Kastoria, Greek Macedonia. Alexander the Great rode into my birthplace twice recruiting for his army.
I saw the ancient drums of his army in a small mountain village near the Albanian border to Greece.
Thereis not greek Macedonia. There is only one Macedonia.
@@milanm403 correct
@@milanm403 exactly ,only one. The other one is called North Macedonia
Τα Σκόπια δεν είναι Μακεδονία
@@milanm403Yes, in Greece
Why is everyone complaining.
While Macedon was Hellenic it wasn't very well looked on by the city states and had a rougher branch of the dialect as shown with the Pella Curse Tablet and Hesychius Lexicon and local coins which has some unique words and variations of existing ones.
Because people are nationalists and only look at the surface of history. Mind you this is true for all countries.
It's not hard to understand why. I'll give you some hints if you really need. Check the so called slavs wannabemacedonian claims over hellenic history and how this is affecting real greek Macedonians like me.
@@Stratigoz "real greeks Macedonians like me" HAHA, most "Greek Macedonians" today are from Anatolia, after the population exchange with Turkey, you're not Macedonians, you phoney pos.
@@Stratigoz your a washed up Turk/Albanian you maggot just ask your parents who ur great great grandfather Mustafa was 😂
A pitty you didn´t mention the Perioeci, the free non-citizen class that lived in settlements and Poleis under spartan rule. In the Classical period, the Spartans were not permitted to engage in any economically productive activities, so the Perioeci formed the economic backbone of Laconia when it comes to craftmanship and trade. Not to mention that they bolstered their Armies.
If only Sparta accepted people as citizens instead of enslaving them. They would've been extremely dominant.
Makedonia part of the paeonia? when did that happened my dear friend?
Βασίλης Κωστόπουλος so Greeks pronounce it as MaKedonia and not MaCedonia? With a hard K?
Also what about Mycenaean vs MyKenaean?
@@kanyekubrick5391 The word Macedonia is pronunced as "Makethonia" (the "th" pronunced like the "th" in the words "this" or "that")
The word "Mycenaean" in Greek is "Μυκηναϊκός"(pronunced as "Mikinaikos") and the city "Mycenea" would be written as "Μυκήνες" or "Μυκήναι" and pronunced as "Mikines" or "Mikine" respectively.
All of those are the Modern Greek pronunciations.
there are many examples of tribes changing their name with new situation on the ground, wars, the fear from the great macedonian name and kingdom, where there was massacres on the helenic humans:))
so, re-branding is common in the history, take greeks today, named in 1829 from their german king otto. what the fuck has a name greek has to do with the hellenesfrom ancient citiesaround athens, sparta. nothing:))
when the illyrians under dardanian rule conquered macedonia and left the paeonians to attack mecedons
I enjoyed the fact that it was simply explained
The reasons for all those manipulations of the non-Hellenism of the Macedonians
were only political like we all recognize in current times.
Politics has often tried to distort history and ethnicities for the sake of imposing political expediency and changing boarders
All these were the targers of competing influences in ancient Hellas even by the Hellenen themselves
It took Phillip, “The Barbarian” to undertake the idea of conquering and uniting all of Greece before trying to embark on an Invasion of the Persian Empire.
It took the Military Genius of Alexander to accomplish the destruction of the Persian Empire.
Alexander thanked the Gods for being born “Greek”
Being born “Greek” was an idea and not a Race. He knew that and thus “Hellenism”.
Your take on why the Makedones were often counted as barbarians is entirely incorrect. The Macedonians were very definitely speakers of Greek - evidently of the 'Western' type (related to Doric and similar to the dialects in Epirus) - a view held by most authorities for a good century now and one pretty much confirmed through recent finding of the language (see Pella curse tablet). Yes, the word 'barbaros' initially stemmed from the sound made by someone Greeks could not understand. However, the idea of a group of people not enjoying the same cultural traits very much extended the meaning of the term beyond its earlier sense. We have instances of the term 'barbarian' even being applied by city-state Greeks to those of another Greek city-state in situations where we know the group being labelled 'barbarian' was definitely Greek-speaking. The Makedones were often times labelled as 'barbarians' - and you have to remember this was most famously by certain Athenians such as Demiosthenes - essentially because they did not partake in the sophisticated city-state culture of the southern Greeks. Theirs was still very much a 'homeric' world of bygone times; of kings, lords and tribes. What we know of the ancient Macedonians PERFECTLY accords with the view that they were speakers of a North-west Greek dialect who still practised the tribal culture of the past.
I believe me and you both agree on why they’re referred to, by contemporary sources, as “barbarians”. It was due to a socio-political difference of government and society as Macedon was not organised by the Polis system of Classical Greece. I merely mentioned that “barbarian” refers more to a cultural divide rather than any sense of savagery or primitivism. Thus even fellow Helens could be “barbarians” since they didn’t come from your specific Polis. The case of “no true Scotsman” very much applies. However between them as a whole there was a sense of “Greekness” between the central city states that excluded the further off boundaries of the Greek world (Italy, Macedon, Black Sea, etc.). But in times of foreign invasion, a la Persia and Carthage, the Hellenistic identity extended past this racist snobbery of the Polises to include them all. Hence why we know that truely the Kingdom of Macedon was Greek and apart of the Greek world.
Unfortunately, your talking has no evidence. No proof at all.
Only small talks read in your fake and fabricated history invented
only to cover your old people history mistakes done thru centuries.
Actually, your old people have been worst existing nation in that time.To cover this facts and to make yourselves good and nice to your children and grand children, creating the biggest lie in the world and in it you all blindly believe faking all events happen after. It become your habit with no way back laying your selves, your people, your kids and all around you. So, there is no help at all. Whatever you do, internet will expose all you fakes in time. Your worst enemy just have been started. Only improve, might be your repent.
The FAKE fact: -" The word BARBARIANS is rooted from this word: - BRBORI ! And is used when is not easy to understand people who speaks quite different. Today we use this word in the same exact meaning. BRBORI, it means BUBBLING. In that time greeks talking was so called : BRBORI There is the root for BARBARI = BaRBaRIans. Logic ? Ancient Macedonians had too much difficulties to understand greeks because their language have been too hard for them, so these people have been called BARBARI in Macedonian or = BARBARIANS in English. They still for YES, say : - NA. And for NO, they say : - OHI (OK) Weird ??
Greeks don't have in their language this word BRBORI. So is not possible to call Macedonians BARBARI because the greeks never had a root for BARBARIANS. So, that name have been attached to greek people, not to Macedonians.
This fact your old people couldn't stand, and attached it to Macedonians as some kind of revenge and kept it for long time.
Swapping the thesis happened to be not too practical, as in time, it came opened right on the day light. Than the bare truth will be seen right and all these fabrications will be discovered on the inventors expense. So is never profitable to create fake stuff. Now just wait, and all creations from your old people will be exposed no matter what you will do or fabricate further. Internet is your worst enemy. Nowadays all untruths are coming to be exposed and retracted to the owner, as you know it very good, I guess. So, never say Macedonians are barbarians, because you are proving every day WHO IS BARBARIAN.... Logic ???
Ljudmil Nikuljski No
If it is only political why Eolian/Achaeans did not understood ancient Macedonian by them classify as Doric group as Doric language came from Macedonia way before Macedonian kingdom. Them Doric and Ionic was not intelligible but both influenced by Homeric literate from Phoenicia. Then Macedonians are not Ionians as ancient Macedonian is classified as Greek only by Romans of greco-roman culture since 2c.
Trolls Za and Ljudmil enough get a life you losers.
'' Thank Gods I was born Greek🇬🇷 and not a barbarian'' Alexander the Great🇬🇷 , Plutarch's Parallel lives
you were born Greek and you are adorned with other people's feathers.
Typical Greek lier, this “quote” you claim here does not exist in Plutarch’s Parallel Lives, because Alexander never said that 😂.
@@nikolasimjanoski1353 Simjanoski😆😆
@@allstarlord9110 what about it
@@blagoevski336 Хей приятел, вероятно не разбираш какво ти казвам в момента?😂😂😂
Southern Greek city state is true that consider Macedon kingdom as the Greek backwaters But this doesn’t change the Doric origin the Greek language and many more cultural things Untill they became stronk . Is like today for example the “Rich north Italy” and poor south which doesn’t mean that south Italians aren’t Italians ...
Greek language origin lies i Vatican language creators... An esperanto arteficial labguage
@KONSTANTIN XXX Right and Wikipedia is the truthful source for everything... You are an asholle... a progeny of prosfiges .. go back to Anadolia
@KONSTANTIN XXX you are a prosfiga ... your grandparents came from gupsyland ...even old families from Athens called your grandparents prosfiges and they called mine grandparents endopi
.. so thats is very telling
@KONSTANTIN XXX YOU ARE AN IDIOT.. IF YOU KNOW LITTLE ABOUT BULGARIAN HISTORY YOU OUGHT TO KNOW THAT BULGARIANS ARE BULGARIAN IN NAME ONLY... ORIGINAL BULGARIANS WERE ASIATIC PEOPLE FROM TURCIK ORIGIN AND THEY SPOKE NON-MACEDONIC LANGUAGE
.. SO BECAUSE IN THE 1800' -1900" SOME GEOPLOTICAL CENTARS IN EUROPE SUPPORTED THE BULGARIAN KINGDOM WITH THEIR SAXON KING .. THEY HAD NATURAL CLAIMS IN MACEDONIA.. JUST LOKE GREECE HAD CLAIMS WITH THEIR MEGALI IDEA BORN IN LONDON
@KONSTANTIN XXX YOUR NAME IS NOT EVEN RIGHT... THE RIGHT NAME IS KOSTADIN... THAT IS TRUE MACEDONIAN NAME.. A NAME THAT IS HARD TO FIND IN SLAVS NORTH FROM DUNABE RIVER ... THERE ARE SO MANY NAMES IN MACEDONIANS, MODERN BULGARIANS, SERBS, CROATS THAT ARE THEIRS MOSTLY OR ONLY BUT COULD HARDLY BE FIND IN EASTERS SLAVS OR WESTERN SLAVS... BUT WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE IN THE PROPAGANDA THAT WE CAME FROM BEHIND CARPATHIAN MOUNTAINS..
My father was born in that area too but in a Bulgarian village. But family left after the Greeks took over after Balkan Wars and ww1. Many people left and then there was the population exchange between Greece and Turkey. Past history, it’s over but shows how things can change. Best to leave it go and stay in peace as there is now. But watching this it shows that in Ancient Greece there was no one Greek people rather many different tribes in their own regions.
**Despite initially 'abetting' them, the Aetolian League (...the mini-states in central 'Hellas' /i.e.: 'Greece') ended up 'garrisoning' both Chalcis & Demetrias AGAINST the Romans (in 195 BC); ...and in-concert-w/ the Achaean League (...i.e.: the mini-states in the upper Peloponnese) which, despite 'rallying- w/-the-Romans' for a stretch, ultimately sided w/ King Perseus of Macedon-proper (...i.e.: where MY own parents are from) by 171 BC; ...not to mention how Phillip V of Macedon had been said League 's (...i.e.: of Hellenic /i.e. 'Greek' southern mini-states) MAIN ALLY during their mini-war w/ the Aetolian League 20 yrs. BEFORE the Romans had even entered 'Hellas'; ...wherewith they (...i.e.: King Phillip V + the upper-Peloponnese, Hellenic /Greek mini-states) held a PAN-HELLENIC (i.e.: Greeks-Only) conference in Corinth! Hence Rome 's 'true' Hellenic allies were (simply) the island of Rhodes & the 'kingdom' of Pergamum (in present-day Turkey); wherein their 'support' (for Rome) was likely a 'play' for patronage vis-a-vis the expansionist aims of King Antiochus III (of Hellenic-Macedonian blood, as well) in Asia Minor. **Recall: A cent. +1/2 earlier, Athens & Thebes 'Hellenic' /'Greek' RIVALS had fought ALONGSIDE Alexander 's father (...seeing as they were all 'true' Hellenes, be it of Dorian, Ionian else Aeolian stock)!
The Doric dialect the Macedonians spoke was one of the many Greek dialects of the ancient Greeks before the Greek "koine" which means common was established among all the Hellenes (Greeks). The Macedonians themselves were a distinct kingdom but not a distinct tribe, they spoke a Dorian dialect because they belonged to one of the 4 major ancient Greek tribes, the Dorians. Other notable Greek city states and kingdoms whose people were of Dorian Greek descent were the Spartans, Argeans (from where the Argead dynasty of Macedon was said to have come from) Messenians etc.
The Macedonians themselves identified as Greeks, had Greek names for themselves and their cities, worshiped the gods of Olympus, took part in the Olympic games which were exclusive to Greek males. Alexander the great's response to Dariu's truce plea also indicates that fact as he self identified as a Greek Macedonian from his fathers side and Epirot from his mothers side: "Your ancestors came to Macedonia and the rest of Hellas (Greece) and did us great harm, though we had done them no prior injury. I have been appointed leader of the Greeks, and wanting to punish the Persians I have come to Asia, which I took from you... "
The evidence is overwhelming and undeniable. The modern day "Macedonians" of FYROM or as it was known in the early to mid 20th century "Vardarska Banovina" in the Serbian language, are descendants of Bulgarian Slavs who lived in Macedonia, were expelled after the Balkan wars and were later brainwashed by the communists of Yugoslavia in order to cut the ethnic Bulgarians of modern day FYROM from the influence of the Bulgarian state, as well as gain irredentist claims on north Greece - Macedonia, its rich resources and access to the trade routes through the Aegean sea.
The Ottoman empire also kept records of the ethnic groups living in their empire, and interestingly enough in the province of Macedonia the groups they recorded were the Turks, Greeks and Bulgarians. No Macedonians because the Greeks living in Macedonia were the descendants of the ancient Greek Macedonians, and the Bulgarians who lived there were the ancestors of the modern day so called "Macedonians" of FYROM.
False, False and False. The Macedonians did NOT speak a Doric dialect. We know for a fact that their language was unintelligible to the Greeks and it wouldn't make sense given that Macedonia was inhabited by Thracian tribes as Strabo and other geographers clearly state, the geographer mentions several parts of the Macedonian country, and Pieria, (insert: also home to Mt. Pierus, home to Orpheus - Thracian) on the borders of Thessaly, which he expressly says had been peopled by the Thracians. In another passage he declares that in his time (63BC to 24AD) the Thracians still had possession of many countries considered as belonging to Greece, namely, Macedonia, and some parts of Thessaly. By this we can only understand that the Thracian language and Thracian manners still prevailed among the inhabitants of these countries, and that though ruled by Grecian princes, the people had not become assimilated to the Greeks.
The Macedonians themselves did not identify as Greeks, nor did the Ancient Greeks call them such. Religion isn't a good argument either, the Thracian also worshipped the same gods, under different names. We find among the Macedonians more traces of foreign than native religion. Certain deities which the Greeks compared with the Sileni they called Sauadae, as the Illyrians called them Deuadae a native Macedonian god of health was named Darrhon.
You took Alexander out of context, his ancestors come from Hellas because they were Greeks from Argos, this did not apply to all Macedonians, this explains why they couldn't participate in the Olympics. When Alexander I of Macedon petitioned to compete in the foot race of the ancient Olympic Games, the event organizers at first denied his request, explaining that only Greeks were allowed to compete.
As long as they met the entrance criteria, which was that only freeborn Greek men were allowed to participate, athletes from any Greek city-state and kingdom were allowed to participate. This means that Greek athletes from across the known Greek world were allowed to compete. That is, Greeks from far-flung Greek colonies as far northeast as present day Ukraine and Russia to the west, along the coasts of Illyria, Sicily and Southern Italy, Southern France, Corsica and even northeastern Spain were allowed to compete. Even Greek colonies from Egypt and Libya. And yet, here is King Alexander I (The Philhellene or “Friend of the Greeks”) of Macedon, on the front doorstep of Greece proper, and he fails to meet the entrance criteria. The Olympic judges i.e. the Hellanodikai simply refused to allow him entrance because he wasn't a Greek. I think it's fair to say they knew who was Greek and was not back then.
However, Alexander I produced proof of an Argead royal genealogy showing ancient Argive Temenid lineage, a move that ultimately convinced the Olympic Hellanodikai authorities of his Greek descent and ability to compete, although this did not necessarily apply to common Macedonians outside of his royal dynasty.
You're correct, the Macedonians are Slavs but really, they mixed with the Ancient Macedonians when they arrived in the Balkans. This can not be denied. Speaking of records, the Greeks living in Macedonia in 1911 were descendants of the Ancient Greek colonists. Encyclopaedia Britannica of 1911 gave the following data for ethnic groups in Macedonia:
Slavs - 1,150,000
Turks - 500,000
Greeks - 250,000 (near the coast, especially in Chalkidiki)
Albanians - 120,000
Vlachs - 90,000
Jews - 75,000 (majority of them in the city of Salonica)
Gypsies - 50,000
Total population - 2,200,000
Of that number 1,052,200 (data from 1913) lived in southern Macedonia (now part of Greece), including:
- 370,400 Slavs
- 274,050 Turks
- 236,750 Greeks
- 68,200 Jews
- 44,400 Vlachs
- 58,400 others or unknown
So as you can see Slavs were majority (52%) in Macedonia as a whole, and the largest ethnic group (35%) also in southern Macedonia.
@KONSTANTIN XXX What a stupid question. The first traces of Greeks in Macedonia was 700 B.C when they first established colonies on the coast. Before that, it was inhabited by Thracian tribes like the Mygdonians. If we give credit to Strabo, we must consider the Macedonians as a Thracian people. That the geographer mentions several parts of the Macedonian country, and Pieria, (insert: also home to Mt. Pierus, home to Orpheus - Thracian) on the borders of Thessaly, which he expressly says had been peopled by the Thracians. In another passage he declares that in his time (63BC to 24AD) the Thracians still had possession of many countries considered as belonging to Greece, namely, Macedonia, and some parts of Thessaly. By this we can only understand that the Thracian language and Thracian manners still prevailed among the inhabitants of these countries, and that though ruled by Grecian princes, the people had not become assimilated to the Greeks.
Prior to the Macedonian ascendancy, parts of southern Macedonia were populated by the Bryges, while western, Macedonia, was inhabited by Macedonian and Illyrian tribes.
So Southern Macedonia (which bordered Thessaly was inhabited by Thracians and Western Macedonia was inhabited by Illyrians but you want to tell me that the Macedonians, completely surrounded by Thracians and Illyrians were somehow "Greeks"? Haha.
It doesn't matter when Slavs come to the region, that's not what I'm arguing about.
I would say that the Macedonian kings strove for inclusion into the overall Greek world. There's Herodotus story about the Olympics in which the young Argead Alexander I found protest for being a barbarian until he provided proof of his ancestors being refugees from Argos. Likewise I've read that Alexander I doesn't show up in the victor list for the Olympics meaning the whole episode might have been panhellenic propaganda from the Argeads. Even so at the least the Greeks of the classical era were willing to buy the notion of the Argead royal house as being Greek but that didn't seem to extend to the Macedonian people.
At least for me and what I've read it seems Macedonia also had a Thracian element that's often overlooked. The political kingship found in Macedonia also has parallels in Thrace and it appears Macedonian and Thracian kingship was similar. Likewise you find that the Macedonian elite culture had Thracian elements such as their burial practices and the worship of the Thracian Horseman. To my eyes the Macedonians were their own thing with elements from both the Greeks and the Thracians.
@@moisesflores5405 What do modern Americans like to say, self determination. Well the Macedonians did determine themselves as Hellenic. Them being on the edge of the Greek world at the time they surely had some influences from the Illyrian as well as the Thracian people, after all that’s not our personal guess alone but historians too say so as well.
Same way the Germans living close to Slavic populations have some Slavic influence and vice versa. The Macedonian society before the last Argeads was structured more or less like the Mycenaean society during the Homeric era.
@@alexsg870 I love how the Pella Curse tablet is the only evience of the supposed "Greekness" of the Macedonian language. Need I remind you that Pella was inhabited by Thracians?
Ch is usually pronounced like a k in Greek, love your vids!
Thanks, most of my earlier stuff is a bit all over with the pronounciations
@@ArchaiaHistoria What's your nationality, if you don't mind me asking?
Archaia Istoria- αρχαία ιστορία - όνομα - μου λέει ότι είστε Έλληνες - αυτό εξηγεί κάπως τα προβλήματα με τις προφορές.
Man you can't deny that your title was a bit clickbaity. Hence all the hot-headed comments. But you handed the topic well.
By the way have you read Hammond's History of Macedonia?
When I made this video I didn’t mean it to sound like click bait since I’m covering just the Greek opinion on the Macedonians and an overview of the Greek political landscape. However you’re right it has kinda been received like that.
I haven’t read it, I mainly use just the general ancient sources (Arrian, Doidorus, Justin) and Ian Worthington’s assortment of books for my information on Macedonian history.
@@ArchaiaHistoria In that case I recommend it, it is a colossal work, but unfortunately more of a 'heavy' academic work, than a 'light' read a normal history buff would pick.
Kostas Zevlas I love those denser books, I’ll be sure to check it out thanks
Instead of custom characters and units drawing I for one would appreciate more some stylized custom or at least good edited maps.
Ancient Macedonian kingdom was a Greek kingdom.
Thank you for recognizing that Ancient Macedonia was GREEK. You are a true scholar.
where is greece in the bible
@@niksmaithy6929 The majority of the new Testament takes place in Greece where the apostles are spreading the Word to the GREEKS.. Also GREEKS are mentioned hundreds of times. You OBVIOUSLY never read GOD'S WORD.
@@c.k.2405 how about the old testomeny
@@niksmaithy6929 where it is also today. This is a misleading question and has nothing to do with the subject.
But if you want to know, then have a look in the books of Daniel, of the Maccabeans and also in the New Testament
@C.K. his conclusion is correct basing on the archeological research made especially in the last 3 decades, however his deduction is not clear (for not to say wrong). Everybody who start's with "the Greeks said..." begins with a simplification and generalisation of a reality (of the ancient Greek world) which is simply wrong. It was never the entity of the Greek "world" who claimed or said something. It were some few Athenian Rhetors (i.e. political speakers) who during the growing rivalry between the kingdom of Macedon and the Athenian empire (yes, we can say empire in this case) opposed in their speaches king Philipp II. Not even the Macedonian people entirely. Further... because somebody will come up and start to claim, but Thucidides, but Herodot said... yes they said and dealed with the Macedonians, but never put them in the place of being non-Greek. Ofcourse it seems so, when you cut phrases of their works out of context. Happy to provide sources any in case required. A second point as a critic to this video is how the term "barbarian" is explained and how it is used in ancient Greek context. It was never exclusivelly a term to desribe somebodys ethnic origin but also as a personal insult. So also this information in this video, is not explained or understood correctly. A wonder that the maker of the video comes to the correct conclusion, that the Macedonians were Greek, which corresponds to the current in the majority of the academics accepted, conclusion. I recommend the following recently published work about this topic, which is "Ancient Macedonia" by M. Hatzopoulos, De Gruyter publications
Macedonia is Greece and will always be Greek they had Greek writing on there tombs and temples that we used today the Slavic alphabet wasn't established at this time of history until nearly 1000 years later.
I agree completely, I think a lot of people believe I am talking about modern FYROM when I distinguish between Macedonian (Doric) and central Greek culture.
Stephanie Perunovic Deletus
Macedonians aren't Slavs: www.igenea.com/en/home
Macedonia:
30% macedonian
10% illyrian
15% hellenen
5% phoenician
20% germanic Teuton
5% hunnen
15% slavs
This is NON truth fact and is very well used from your people. The paper, as always can stand absolutely everything, even lies and untrue. Still there is no authority for it to be 100% certain it is truth. Here is real what happened: Russians have in their History the main event of their moves and is:
-" We came from behind Carpathian Mountains ". Means, they came from Balkans. If you don't believe, be my guest, read and check it. The President Putin recently admitted that their letter and religion came from Macedonia. And in our History books ( Macedonian, Srbian, ) the same event is described as: -" We came from behind the Carpathian Mountains". Means (fabricated fact): we came and move to Balkans from the territories that are behind Carpathian Mountains, and are from Russian origin. Our kids are laughing on it and all the time are asking teachers did they still believe in that stupidity? According your opinion, what is right?
So, the Balkan History is real mess created by that time powers such as Germany and England, serving theirs needs and purposes. So, my advice is to leave uncertain claims because all of them have very strong smell of money behind. Balkan History is twisted a lot teaching the kids with untrue facts, making them ignorant and brainwashed with fabricated and wrongly created facts. Happy ???
Lets see if Dorian, Ionian and Eolian/Achaean is Greek language AND Dorian spoken by one or more of many Macedonian tribes, Macedonians are not Ionians then why Macedonia is Greek exclusive? Any way those Macedonians described as Slavs(only as a modern language is unfortunately classified in Slavic group)was dominant in whole Macedonia as Christians in Roman and Slavs in post medieval feudal church then Ottoman era, but Greek occupier changed demographic structure last 150 years. Aldo those Athenians who spoke Eolian did not understood Macedonian and called then barbarians. So ,Doric is not exclusive Greek but influenced other ancient languages,as Homeric literate of Phoenicia influenced ancient Macedonian and in Hellenistic era all those languages came close finally in Macedonian empire to be common language Koine to be made. By stance of greek logic claims of Koine as Greek then English language can be claimed as German. There is no material evidence of movement of Slavs in Balkan but only theory wrote by scholars of Renessance Europe 16-18thc. on base of greko-roman myths of installed Latin kings of new states of ruined Ottoman europe as puppet states for royalist imperialistic power interests. Also alphabet and language is not same thing then languages are classified intentionally as borders are given as states are formed.
You read history in a nationalist perspective. That is why your views are biased. Many of the thoughts you wrote are debunked if only you had studied the classics and medieval history. So you jump to conclusions that fits you not to conclusions based on historical investigation.
Archaeology gives answer to your question. ONLY GREEK engraved inscriptions founded in ancient Macedonia. From tombs to graves and ceramics either Attic, or Doric (with Aeolian elements). NOTHING ELSE except very few of Illyrian origin. That's all we have. Not a single one ''slavic'' or ''cyrillic''.
Who told you that the Athenians didn't understand Macedonian Attic/doric? All the Greek playwrights from the ancient Athenian Euripides were adressed in Pella to ''barbarians'' long before ''Greek'' become the ''English of today''. Even when Alexander III invaded Persia the Greek language wasn't yet ''international'' they used translators to communicate. Language for ancient historians wasn't the sole factor to determine who is Greek and who is barbarian. You must meet certain other criteria to be called ''Greek''.
Keep in mind that Athenians also called ''barbarians'' fellow Athenians.
Study the materials that left to us from Saint Demetrius regarding the siege of Thessaloniki at 6th AD by Avars and Slavs to get an idea who were those Slavs. Study the materials the Emperor Heraclitus left to us when he invited and settled those Slavs in the region we call Macedonia-Thrace. Thessaloniki is the actual ancient name not Solun. Solun was the name those Slav invaders gave to call the city in their native tongue.
Study, lastly, the historiography left to us before during and after the Balkan wars to get an idea how much Bulgarians those Macedonoids were and how many Greeks were there too. I agree, after 1922 Greeks by settling Asia Minor Greeks changed the demographics of the region. But to ''distort'' the facts and call those ex Bulgarians as Macedonians, you don't change the demographics you rape historical truth.
As a macedonian thank you very much that you promote our history and that you make clear that we are Greeks and not west bulgarians!!! 🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷
Finally
Very nice presentation of the state of affairs during those times. No biased opinions, just facts. Just a couple of corrections. Ancient Macedonia's southern border was in fact the Pineios river, which lies south of Mount Olympus. The ancient Carian explorer and writer of the late 6th and early 5th centuries BC, Scylax of Caryanda, when describing the northern border of Greece, actually states "beyond the river Pineios (i.e. north of) is the nation of the Macedonians". Also, the highest point of Mount Olympus is 2,917m.
Edit: I disagree with the opinion expressed regarding the language of the ancient Macedonians. That they spoke Greek is a modern assumption. Alexander utilised Greek, the "lingua franca" of the time, for his empire. That's all. Macedonians had their own distinct language. Plutarch & Quintus Curtius Rufus specifically mention the Macedonian language being used during Alexander's campaign.
Omg dude any evidence? You go wild with your imagination not gonna lie your propaganda did a great job there. Like wtf macedonians spoke a dorian dielect so did other doric tribes like sparta you want to say to us that spartans were not speaking greek???Mollosians also a greek tribe( incase you missanderstood when i say greek i mean hellenic) .Dude you need to grow up and look at more sources you cant stick to your own propaganda if its true that macedonians werent greeks and the never spoke greek then pls explain me the name macedonia or the name phillip or hephesteon or like alexander or buchephalas or parmenion or like dyonisus that many of macedonians got(it was a common name back then) or why the believe to the same gods with the rest of the greeks or that they participate in the olpic games where only greeks were able to .
Hahahaha yeah sure buddy
We ve found tablets before Alexander that is written in An ancient greek dialect .
How do you think the rest of the Greeks could understand Alexander and also communicate with the army if they didn't speak the same language? What you say doesn't make sense and there is no proof. In fact, all the signs show that the written language was Greek in Ancient Macedonia and other Greek city-states. For example Slav Macs our neighbours speak a Bulgarian dialect but still refuse to understand that. Even in Greece like in many countries, for example, Scottish vs English, you will find different dialects but all coming from the same language!
@@Estelleeeeee I’m glad you asked. When you say the “rest” of the Greeks, that would be your first mistake. The ancient authors like Plutarch, Arrian, Justin, Quintus Curtius, etc., never lumped the Macedonians as part of the Greeks. As far as they were concerned, the Macedonians were a separate nation, distinct from the Greeks. They used the collective term Hellenes (i.e., Greeks) to refer only to those who bore the attributes of being a Greek (language, culture, religion, etc.) but they never used this term to refer to the Macedonians. Do you ever wonder why that is? Instead, they always referred to the Macedonians as just Macedonians. Athenians, Spartans, Argives, Corinthians or, whatever city state the ancient Greeks may have hailed from, could be referred to as Greeks but this “honour” was never granted to the Macedonians. The Greek title was reserved only for those who shared the common Greek language, culture, and religion. The Macedonians were never included as part of the Greek nation because they simply didn’t speak Greek and had a different way of life from the Greeks. The ancient authors knew this and, unlike today, it wasn’t controversial back then. It was simply a fact. The terms Greeks and Macedonians were never used interchangeably to mean one and the same and Macedonia was never regarded as just another Greek city state.
The Macedonian soldiers were commanded by Macedonian officers who had to know the Macedonian language in order to successfully pass on their commands. The ordinary Macedonian soldier did not understand Greek. They were not educated like Alexander’s officers were who went through King Phillip’s Royal Pages Academy. To answer your question about why Greek was used in Alexander’s empire, I think Quintus Curtius Rufus, himself, would be the best person to answer that question. This is what he wrote about the trial of Philotas, a key figure in Alexander’s close knit group of friends who was being accused of treason:
“The Macedonians are going to judge your case, please state whether you will use your native language before them” asked Alexander. “Besides the Macedonians”, replied Philotas, “there are many present who, I think will find what I am going to say easier to understand if I use the language you yourself have been using, your purpose, I believe, being to enable more people to understand you.” Then the king said: “do you see how offensive Philotas finds even his native language? He alone feels an aversion to learning it. But let him speak as he pleases - only remember that he is as contemptuous of our way of life as he is of our language” (Curtius VI.9.35 - 36).
As you can see, Greek was the language of the empire that Alexander adopted for ease of communication. It was the lingua franca of the time, i.e., the language of commerce and trade, so it made sense to adopt it. The “native” and “our” language is the Macedonian language that is being referenced here. The fact that Alexander accuses Philotas of “having an aversion to learning it” points to one thing - the gradual Hellenization of the Macedonian ruling elite. Greek was being used by the Macedonian aristocracy for quite a while to the point that subsequent generations had started to forget their own mother tongue. Here is some more evidence with regard to this fact from Curtius:
“One charge made against me is that I disdain to communicate in my native language, that I have no respect for Macedonian customs - which means I have designs on an empire I despise. That native language of ours has long been rendered obsolete through our dealings with other nations, and conquerors and conquered must learn a foreign tongue” (Curtius VI. 23).
So, in other words, what Philotas is saying here is that even the nations the Macedonians are subduing are forced to learn the same foreign tongue (i.e., Greek) that he had to learn.
“Slav Macs speak a Bulgarian dialect”. That is yet another mistake. It is in fact Bulgarians who speak a Macedonian dialect. The original Bulgars spoke a Turkic language when they first arrived in Thrace while, at the same time, Macedonian was being spoken by everyone in Salonika back then. Yes, the same Macedonian, if not a very close version of modern Macedonian. The Bulgars adopted the language that was already being spoken by Macedonians and Thracians at the time.
The Argead dynasty (Greek: Ἀργεάδαι, romanized: Argeádai), also known as the Temenid dynasty (Greek: Τημενίδαι, Tēmenídai) was an ancient Macedonian royal house of Dorian Greek provenance. They were the founders and the ruling dynasty of the kingdom of Macedon from about 700 to 310 BC.
from 14:30 you have a few inaccuracies:
a) Macedonians did indeed have slaves. This is how they mined the mines of Chalkidiki. One example is Philip II of Macedon, who sold 20,000 women and children into slavery after the invasion of Scythia in 339 BC. There is even an archaeological artifact from King Perseus of Macedon found in ancient Alcomenae in Derriopos concerning a slave or servant.
b) Other Greeks had monarchies (besides the dual one in Sparta): Epirus had monarchy. Thessaly had the tagos (who were basically monarchs with another name). Some eons ago, the Mycenaeans had kings (and by the way, Mycenaean presence was also discovered in Macedonia.
P.S. it is not 'ΑΡΑΧΑΙΑ ΙΣΤΟΡΙΑ' but 'ΑΡΧΑΙΑ ΙΣΤΟΡΙΑ' ;)
HERE WRAPS UP THING....
Herodotus on Macedonia being GREEK!!
m.ua-cam.com/video/jm3cXv0tgOA/v-deo.html
Fun fact: I’m actually from a town named after Paeonia
You are from Paionia municipality, the town of Palykastro?
@@DanieleLeone-re9cv no Paonia Colorado
@@Avinkwep interesting 🧐
@@DanieleLeone-re9cv ya little mountain town but we win at high school sports a lot, we’ve won 27 Colorado state championships
24 veka od FILIP KRAL do 1913 TERITORIJA NA MAKEDONIJA
Kavala-----------Solun-----------Halkidiki---------Panonia so Egejsko more .
I think we are wrong on the term “barbarian” used in antiquity. It describes more a behaviour not an identity. So even a greek behaving against what was considered ethic at the time may be colled a barbarian. Because most of the people in Northern Europe at the time were Celtic very similar to each other it looked like the term barbarian ment non greeks. It meant not civilised because Romans or Greeks considered themselves civilised.
Panonia! A fitting name for Southern Yugoslavia!
Paionia , or Vardarska
How about Yunanistan for south of it ?
@@antondavidoff150 Is that supposed to be an insult?
"Yunan" means "Ionian", so Greece would be named "The land of the Ionians"
how bout not?
@KONSTANTIN XXX How's this relevant to my comment?
When someone looks at the history of ancient Macedonians and Alexander the Great, it is very clear that they have nothing in common with Slavs. Yet, people from a slavic country 🇲🇰 want to be called "macedonians" and they don't even feel embarrassed about that 😂😂
**(Plutarch): "Just after (King) Philip had taken Potidaea, he received these three messages
at one time, that Parmenio had overthrown the Illyrians in a great
battle, that his race-horse had won the course AT THE OLYMPIC GAMES (...i.e.: a quatrennial competition ONLY open to 'Hellenes'; i.e.: 'Greeks'),
and that his wife had given birth to Alexander". **Quintius Curtius Rufus (History of Alexander; J.C. Rolfe /'Loeb') / Bk IV; chapt i(1), verse 11 (--Alexander 's letter to Darius III; continued): "...Again, Xerxes, of the same (i.e.: Persian) race, came to attack us ... ...; although defeated in a sea-fight, he left Mardonius IN GREECE (i.e.: 'Hellas'), in order that even in his (i.e.: King of Asia, Xerxes') absence he might lay waste OUR cities and burn OUR fields."
If you do videos on other time periods in Greek history please do a similar video to map all if not most of the states that existed around the time it is very interesting
By the way. Bardia the king of Illyria. since you don't know it is a song existing in Macedonian history. Macedonian saying is: You don't tell your Father's property how big it is hi has to show you.
Bardi albanian name
“Now that these descendants of Perdiccas [i.e: the Macedonians🇬🇷] are Greeks🇬🇷 , as they themselves say, I myself chance to know and will prove it in the later part of my history.”
(Herodotus, “Histories”, 5.22.1)
So,this mean Macedonians are not a greeks,right ???
The Argead dynasty (Greek: Ἀργεάδαι, romanized: Argeádai), also known as the Temenid dynasty (Greek: Τημενίδαι, Tēmenídai) was an ancient Macedonian royal house of Dorian Greek provenance. They were the founders and the ruling dynasty of the kingdom of Macedon from about 700 to 310 BC.
there are many misunderstandings, dubious and taboo topics; the fact is that the indigenous peoples of the Macedonia region were non-Hellenic peoples, and who later received Hellenism. Even Phrygian's, the oldest people of the Mediterranean, who had a 19font letter in 9BC, after migrating to Asia, modified it towards Hellenic. Legend is that Perdica 1 came to Macedonia to look for King Midas garden. He worked at the palace at the local king's, proved himself by kneading bread, but the king did not pay him, told him to take the sun's ray, and Perdika then created the sun symbol. Unesco's website also says that there have been 11th-century tumulus in Aigai, and the oldest known tumulus of the Argeides is on Euridica 1. So it was not about the Barbarians, but local Non-Hellenic peoples who had civilizations from before, and Phrygians, Paeonians and Tracians were allies of Troy. And there is a theory that (Barb)Arian existed much earlier, 6500BC, in upper Macedonia. However, in the geographical Region of Macedonia there was civilization before the Minoan and Mycenaean, the Dispilio tablet ,by Castoria , is 6,000 years old , and the wooden column houses at Lake Ohrid discovered in 2023 are 8,000 years old.
Good video and yes most linguist agree that they soike a Hellenic (Greek) dialect akin to Doric (the parent tribe of tbe Spartans)
Dude at 13:44 you handle the use of the Hellenicity of Makedonians very well good job.
Macedonians were never Greeks.
@@duskojowcewski643 Oh please, return to your cave okayy?
@@duskojowcewski643 POZDRAV ! ! ! Tatjana od MAKEDONIJA
Great video Makedonia was Greek.
They didnt exclusively mate with greeks. Thats why the rest of greece didnt consider them greeks. They were extremely supremist.
Rest of the Greece? More like some portion, like some Athenians with interests and territory in madedonian lands.
wrong
Two questions.
1) Were the ancient Macedonians Slavs?
3) Are today's Macedonians Slavs?
Why slavic and not latin or germanic ? Bulgars are not slavic and their connection to eg. Poland is 0%.
To Mario pangalo. In Australia they havevery nice optometrist, especialy specsaves. They may give you glasses for free and oppen your eyes. Since (pardon me) only a blind person knows how big is Greece! One his walking stick hits the grass he knows is in Makedonia. Just dreem since you never will be Proud Makedonec.
You won't be 'macedonian' either since you were already born a BULGARIAN.
@@levesd3722 MACEDONIANS ARE MACEDONIANS.
you " junk " .
" Bulgaria left WWII restricted in its sovereignty: as a former ally of Germany, it was expected that Bulgaria would cede some its territory to their neighbors. Moreover, "communist internationalism" mandated that the new rulers in Bulgaria were to prepare themselves to make concessions to their Yugoslav "comrades,” who seem too eager to seize not only Pirin, Macedonia but, all of the land that belonged to Bulgaria in the Yugoslav Federation. The Yugoslavs made it known that they could not be stopped until Moscow met all of their demands. Beginning at the end of 1944, teachers from Skopje were sent to "accelerate" education of the local population in the newly invented Macedonian language. In addition, during the census of 1946, local people were forced to identify themselves as "Macedonians.” Keep in mind, that all of this can only be understand in the framework of the communist system of power and pressure, where too much in one's life - schooling, job, promotion -depends on the confidential characteristics of everyone, not only the CP members: politically trustworthy - or unreliable[2]. It was the BCP 10th Plenary session (9-10 August 1946) which made the unique decision to begin the process of “Macedonianization” the population in Pirin Macedonia, meaning a complete transfer of that territory of Bulgaria to Yugoslavia. A delegate at that particular session, Evtim Georgiev, insolently said in his speech, "(We) adopted the task to introduce Macedonian consciousness among the population"
(C'rnusanov,1992:359). A year and half later, on April 21st 1948, a special session at the Central Committee, observations were made about the difficulties that hindered the implementation process of the decision made at 10th Plenum. In the words of the Secretary of the Party committee in Petrich, "After the 10th Plenum Declaration me and the rest of comrades we all became Macedonians (sic!)... During the census we implied pressure. (CP) Regional committee established that we have in our district 66-70% Macedonians. We reinforced our work and received 90% Macedonians.” Reinforced our work: does this need further explanation? A proper person - the regional police chief, Nikola Rachev - elucidated at the very same session what this meant: "Procreation of Macedonian consciousness is proceeded through coercion... During the population census in the Pirin region, our personnel imposed, through violence, people to write themselves as Macedonians" (Ibidem). It took the quarrel between Stalin and Tito to reverse the policy of forced “Macedonianization.” Ironically, without any sort of inventory, consultation or open discussion, as if people were cattle: today a party boss decides they all are sheep, the next day another one says - no, you are cows...
"www.newbalkanpolitics.org.mk/item/Bugarskata-opsesija#.VjzFMrfhD4Z
dumbass in 1913 you took the agean part of Macedonia and previosly you have never had it.your king gave order to cast away all macedonians speaking and repopulate the land with greek speaking .even today your country doesnt recognize any other minority,you all are greeks???thats patetic coming from the land that invented democracy,fasists
Τσίμπησε ο Σκοπιανός αμέσως 😁... ρεμάλια
Dude the video is good but you know that the royal family of Macedonia came from the Pelloponnes and inhabited the area we call Macedon later. Epirus isn't a part of Macedon and the ancient macedonia was only stretching through Pella (Vergina) to Edessa and Thessaloniki which we find all the names written in stones with the Greek alphabet at the age Phillip the second was at his peak. The so called macedonia nowadays is the land of poenians and the providence of the roman empire just stretch it out when they concured the main land of Greece. They have nothing to do with the Macedonian people who spoke a dialect of Greek, wanted to reunite Greek tribes and finally achieved that with Alexander the Great. Very cool video but please check your facts
Herodotus on Macedonia being GREEK!!
m.ua-cam.com/video/jm3cXv0tgOA/v-deo.html
You gypsies only know how to still and lie. Today's Macedonians are much closer to ancient Macedonians than greek gypsies tribes.
@@milanm403 Do YOU have any proof of that??
Herodotus on Macedonia being GREEK!!
m.ua-cam.com/video/jm3cXv0tgOA/v-deo.html
surprisingly even today, same Athenians call the Macedonian Greeks Bulgars, it is a Greek thing insulting other Provence's and the Macedonians call the northerners and Athenians Vlachs, but rest assured we are all Greek,we stand united and strong and forget our differences like back then and now if anyone dares to threaten Greece.
I am Macedonian NEVER Greek
@@gocestojanovski3723 you are a Slavic, nothing to do with the original Greek kingdom of Macedonia.
@@ckomit I TATJANA AM MACEDONIAN.
you fool .
barbarian had double meaning. the one you state is the meaning when it was first conceived.
"Ancient allegations that the Macedonians were non-Greek all had their origin in Athens at the time of the struggle with Philip II. Then as now, political struggle created the prejudice. The orator Aeschines once even found it necessary, to counteract the prejudice vigorously fomented by his opponents, to defend Philip on this issue and describe him at a meeting of the Athenian Popular Assembly as being 'ENTIRELY GREEK'. Demosthenes' allegations were lent an appearance of credibility by the fact, apparent to every observer, that the life-style of the Macedonians, being determined by specific geographical and historical conditions, was different to that of a Greek city-state. This alien way of life was, however, common to western Greeks of Epirus, Akarnania and Aitolia, as well as to the Macedonians, and THEIR FUNDAMENTAL GREEK NATIONALITY WAS NEVER DOUBTED. Only as a consequence of the political disagreement with Macedonia was the issue raised at all." Errington 1994, p. 4:Errington, Malcolm (1994). A History of Macedonia. Barnes Noble.
In ancient Greeks we had a lot of conflicts. The Athinese always thought that they were supirior and more Greeks than the rest. The same thing is happening today in a way. But these are our problems. They have nothing to do with you and your Bulgarian people.
Can you give me the source where Aeschines refers to Philip as Entirely Greek?
@@SpartanLeonidas1821 Περί τῆς Παραπρεσβείας -The Speech on the False Embassy
Macedonian nation does not exist . The Ancient Macedonians🇬🇷 were Greeks 🇬🇷.
Alexander the Great🇬🇷, king of Ancient Greek Macedonian kingdom 🇬🇷, 356 BCE - 323 BCE:
"Now you fear punishment and beg for your lives, so I will let you free, if not for any other reason so that you can see the difference between a Greek🇬🇷 king and a barbarian tyrant, so do not expect to suffer any harm from me."
(Kallisthenes, Historia Alexandri Magni, 1.37.9-13)
That these descendants of perdiccas are greeks as they themselves say, i myself know it and have the chance to show it later, but the helenodikai of the olympics also knew it, that it is this way.(ring a bell?)
Great videos and keep up the good work! I love your analysis on Macedon's neighbouring states and how it was struggling against the influences from the Balkan tribes and southern Greek powers, being in the periphery of the ancient greek world. I also like your take on their identity. Please ignore the triggered greek nationalists and the trolls from FYROM and keep going!
His analysis is pretty good.
We are not Fyrom We are Macedonians from Macedonia, stop been a hepocrat
We ALL know Arrian was referring (in this instance) to the Hellenic (i.e.: 'Greek') 'mercenaries' who 'd ALREADY been in Persia 's (else ANYONE 'S) employ (in ancient times) ...for 'hefty pay'! Howbeit, Arrian (writing OVER 400 yrs. after-the-fact) takes 'glaring' artistic-liberties in 'creatively' alluding to a special 'rivalry' (i.e.: an un-professional 'embellishment for ANY historian; esp. nowadays) whereby he (to wit) IGNORES the quasi-50,000 'foot soldiers' (elsewhere cited) who were fighting ALONGSIDE ALEXANDER; ...consisting primarily of detachments from the 'League of Corinth' (...i.e.: from most OTHER parts of Hellas /Greece; ...seeing as Alexander 's 'cavalry'-alone were quite-thoroughly Thessalians & Macedonians)! RECALL: Many Hellenes (i.e.: 'Greeks') had fought ALONGSIDE King Phillip AGAINST the 'Thebes /Athens' coalition, AND had endorsed him as 'Hegemon' in their MUTUAL 'undertaking' vis a vis Persia --- ...i.e.: a title NEVER to be attributed to any NON-Hellene --- ...seeing as how 'Dorian'-origin 'Hellenes' (such as the Macedonians, Epirotes & many Peloponnese) as well Aeolians, Ionians + Achaeans had jointly constituted ancient-'Hellas-proper' withal! **Alexander assumed said noble 'role' (conferred his father) on behalf of ALL Hellenes (by said 'League of Corinth), wherewith sundry 'contingents' (comprising his army) --- ...consisting primarily of Hellenes thruout --- EACH HAD THEIR OWN TRAIN OF SERVANTS FROM THEIR OWN DISTRICTS (...incl. youth immersed in abetting 'seasoned' fighters as a 'crash course' in on-site military exposure)! **Nowadays (alas) the 'only' emphasis EVER deployed (...by those wishing to NEGATE the sheer 'Hellenicity' of ancient-Macedon-proper) is the few thousand 'mercenaries' ALREADY in the service of Persia Pre-Alexander --- in concert w/ Hellenes in Asia Minor ALREADY subjugated by Darius; who 'd been 'compelled' (by Persia) to 'thwart' any initial foray 'by' other 'Hellenes' (...i.e.: Greeks) on Persia 's new, Aegean borders; ...said 'foray' now boasting a 'Macedonian' contingent at it 's helm, no less! **Signed: A 'true' 'Macedonian', whose parents' OWN provincial forebears 've likely been in northern-'Hellas' long before Bulgars /Slavs 'surfaced'
Really nice videos, although we shouldn't use today's politics when we view history. There has never been a dispute about the ethnicity about the ancient Macedonians. There were special on their own right of course but that was about it.
Also, referring to the greek city states as the "greeks" only makes matters more confusing.
Herodotus, 8.144.2: "The KINSHIP OF ALL GREEKS IN BLOOD and speech, and the shrines of gods and the sacrifices that we have in common, and the likeness of our way of life."
"Your ancestors came to Macedonia and THE REST OF HELLAS (Greece) and did us great harm, though we had done them no prior injury. I have been appointed LEADER OF THE GREEKS, and wanting to punish the Persians I have come to Asia, which I took from you..." ― Alexander the Great
Alexander's letter to Persian king Darius in response to a truce plea, as quoted in Anabasis Alexandri by Arrian; translated as Anabasis of Alexander by P. A. Brunt, for the "Loeb Edition" Book II 14, 4
@@gromaxlewitch704 Polybius called GREEKS AND MACEDONIANS AS HOMOPHYLOUS (i.e. PART OF THE SAME RACE or KIN). See: Woodard 2010, pp. 9-10; Woodard, Roger D. (2010) [2008]. "Language in Ancient Europe: an Introduction". In Woodard, Roger D. (ed.). The Ancient Languages of Europe. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. pp. 1-13
Polybius, Histories, 9.37.7: "τότε μὲν γὰρ ὑπὲρ ἡγεμονίας καὶ δόξης ἐφιλοτιμεῖσθε πρὸς Ἀχαιοὺς καὶ Μακεδόνας ὁμοφύλους καὶ τὸν τούτων ἡγεμόνα Φίλιππον."
@@vangelisskia214 You don't need to quote Polybius to know that the Macedonians were Greeks.
Page 369
Alexander captured Gaza next and then passed on into Egypt, where he was greeted as a deliverer.
Tyre, a strongly fortified seaport, offered obstinate resistance, but Alexander took it by storm in 332 after a siege of seven months.
per-gi = go
I'm trying to figure out your accent. It's neither British nor American.
Australian or New Zelander neither 😂
Excellent documentary. Historians also are agreed that the ancient Macedonians were Greeks, but they call those Hellenic tribes south of mount olympus as Greeks, and those Hellenic tribes north of mount olympus as Macedonians. This is distinction is merely in a geographical sense for convenience sake and for no other reason.
Tiziano D'amore Finally someone gets it.
Nice video, keep up the good work, doesn't matter if it's not perfect and 100% correct, people nowdays would be too naive to believe everything they watch and read is true, every video on youtube is just an individuals view on things(even on facts, sciense ect) and thats fine! I think the more people are intrested in the past in a positive and creative way the better the ''past'' still sticks around haha.
¬19:38....., I think it's Arxaia Istoria or Αρχαία Ιστορία(not APAXAIA*), youre really butchering the names of all these people and places! Not only what they really sound like in Modern and Ancient Greek but in British ''Queens'' English too....?!?! thats the only thing that bothered me :P
¬oh and this will explain to you who's Greek and who isn't, all the way to modern times, perhaps.....
-ancient greek- «Τοσούτον δ’ απολέλοιπεν η πόλις ημών περί το φρονείν και λέγειν τους άλλους ανθρώπους, ώσθ’ οι ταύτης μαθηταί των άλλων διδάσκαλοι γεγόνασι και το των Ελλήνων όνομα πεποίηκε μηκέτι του γένους, αλλά της διανοίας δοκείν είναι, και μάλλον Έλληνας καλείσθαι τους της παιδεύσεως της ημετέρας, ή τους της κοινής φύσεως μετέχοντας». (Ισοκράτους Λόγοι, Πανηγυρικός )
-modern greek- «Είναι δε τόσο μεγάλη η απόσταση που χωρίζει την πολιτεία μας από τους άλλους ανθρώπους ως προς την πνευματική ανάπτυξη και την τέχνη του λόγου, ώστε οι μαθητές της έχουν γίνει διδάσκαλοι των άλλων και κατόρθωσε (η πολιτεία μας) ώστε το όνομα των Ελλήνων να είναι σύμβολο όχι πλέον της καταγωγής, αλλά της πνευματικής ανύψωσης, και να ονομάζονται Ελληνες εκείνοι που παίρνουν τη δική μας μόρφωση και όχι αυτοί που έχουν την ίδια καταγωγή». ( από τον «Πανηγυρικό» του Ισοκράτους)
-modern english- . Isocrates, Panegyricus
Geography defining culture and a people's identity must be subordinated to mercantile exchange, conquest, strategic marriages and exchanges, religion, language, and other factors not of a physical nature. I chose not to proceed further than the 0:19 point, as your opening premise was not robust and weak.
HUBRIS! NEMESIS ON THE WAY.
They were speaking ancient greek and worshiping the Olympian Pantheon so..
Macedonian nation does not exist . The Ancient Macedonians 🇬🇷were Greeks🇬🇷 .
Alexander's the Great 🇬🇷 letter to Darius III
“Your ancestors invaded Macedonia 🇬🇷 and the rest of Greece🇬🇷and harmed us though we had done nothing to provoke them. Me as the supreme commander of all Greeks 🇬🇷 as i have been appointed , i invaded Asia with the aim of punishing the Persians for this act, an act which must be laid wholly to your charge.”
«🇬🇷 Οἱ ὑμέτεροι πρόγονοι ἐλθόντες εἰς Μακεδονίαν καὶ εἰς τὴν ἄλλην Ἑλλάδα κακῶς ἐποίησαν ἡμᾶς οὐδὲν προηδικημένοι· ἐγὼ δὲ τῶν Ἑλλήνων ἡγεμὼν κατασταθεὶς καὶ τιμωρήσασθαι βουλόμενος Πέρσας διέβην ἐς τὴν Ἀσίαν, ὑπαρξάντων ὑμῶν.🇬🇷 »
Herodotus on Macedonia being GREEK!!
m.ua-cam.com/video/jm3cXv0tgOA/v-deo.html
MACEDONIANS 25 CENTURIES from FILIP KING ON MAKEDONIJA.
Oto german make Greece before 190 years.
The real truth no matter is that the ancient people there both from Greece which wasn’t the Greece of today ,many small independent units, the people of then Macedonia and Thrace are not the same as the peoples in those area today. The ancients were either assimilated or otherwise disappeared. The lands became inhabited by migrations of other peoples. So claiming something that existed over 2,000 years ago doesn’t hold water…
How did Achean Archons lost there power and transition to Dorian Oligarcy and Democracy
Well during the Achaean Period, the kings of various areas in Greece started losing their power to the nobles, who owned a lot of land and privileges, ignoring the lower class with their laws for their personall gains and having many of the common people turned into slaves to work in their fields. This of course made the people angry. They, in their turn lost their power after the 2nd Greek Colonization in Magna Graecia, where the merchants, technichians and other product makers that went there, came back rich with money so much, they started to antagonise the nobles. More on that, the phallanx, which had the idea of equality and unity as core, helped to bringed the downfall of the nobles. The coup de Grace was when some noblemen of common respect were tasked to write down laws. Those were the Nomothetes or Aisimnites. Solon Drakon and Lykourgos were some of them. Their laws supported the merchants, who now got in power and overthrew the nobles, changing aristocracy to oligarchy or timocracy. However, a lot of people were still disappointed even with the Oligarchs in power, because they didn't do much to change the whole situation. In those desperate times, in many cities, men rose up supported by the lower classes and overthrew the government, establishing their own and doing whatever they wanted. Those were the Tyrannts. Many of them in various cities also didn't do much, so a lot of the tyrannts were overthrown or assassinated. In the case of Corinth, when Periandros, the most important tyrannt of Corinth, died, the government returned to oligarchy, while in Athens, when Peisistratos, the only tyrannt of Athens, died and his family was exiled and assassinated, some of the politicians (Kleisthenes) decided to build a new government form and thus created the first steps that would lead in democracy. In other places that were isolated from the greek mainland though, like Makedonia and Epirus, the phyletic system remained and followed the path of Monarchy.
can some one show me were it says greece seems it never existed . a creation of king otto 1821
@KONSTANTIN XXX we told the english to call us macedonia . you never had a name thats why you are now greeks from 1821 .
likewise FYROM never existed before 1944, the creation of king Tito lol
All this small tribes are ALBANIAN dhey all spoke ALBANIAN language. 🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱
@@levesd3722 1944. Tito.
srb glupak.
Macedonia🇲🇰!
😅😅😅😅😅
new Historia Civilis?
this means that and that means this , simple fact is macedonia had its own kings and territory , macedonian empire . nothing to do with greeks and don't want anything to do with greeks . the word greek never even existed before 1821 fact .
it had them all and were not like you Bulgarians that never existed before 1944, fact too ;-)
@Kaly every coin on earth has the country of origin , what does the coin say . MAKEDONIA idiot . where does it say greece lol macedonian writing you mean . macedonia ruled athens by force 338 bc macedonian army smashed through to athens killing thousands and enslaving the rest . 1/4 speaks slavic and most of the world speaks english . just because you can speak english doesn;t make you english does it . stop twisting facts . ancient macedonians is ancient macedonian. macedonia was never part of no greece before 1913 fact . stop stealing our history . insult to call a macedonian greek .
if Makedonians dont speak greek why they named there capiatal aegae the greek word for sheep an they dont use a makedonian word for the first capital?
srry not sheep goat
@@AggelosR All recent research show that the Makedonians spoke a NW dialect of Greek and DNA shows they were Helleneṣ. They considered themselves Hellenes because they wanted to take part in the Olympic gameṣ.
@@henrydicarlo8472 so they was a hellenic tribe
@@AggelosR Yes!!!
@@henrydicarlo8472 no
Simple as that, Μακεδόνες spoke Dorian/Δωρική dialect...
Not Slav .. ops
Greeks are from Africa that is why there appearance and language is similar to Morocco and Libya
@@davidstambolziev1233 Lmao that literally makes no sense...quit trying to be an edge lord
@@davidstambolziev1233 The haplogroup Dna shows it... Greek haplogeoups E+J2... While Macedonian haplogroup I2a+R1a
Emolol Asdf Why is there no Greek inscriptions in Pella before a certain time period ? yet there is Greek inscriptions from that period in real Greece. Because the ancient Macedonians had to learn greek before the could write it as they were not Greeks!
@KONSTANTIN XXX Yes and modern Greeks are more Slavic, Albanian and Turkish than Ancient Greeks you fool.
"In 1909, the existence of large numbers of non Greek place names were a nuisance to the government. In 1909 the government-appointed commission on toponyms report that every one village in three in Greece (30% of the total) should have its name changed (of the 5,069 Greek villages, 1,500 were considered as "speaking a barbaric language"." In 1909, before Macedonia, Thrace and the rest of Epirus were even part of Greece.
……the liberators of Greece…..Nine or ten of them performed the Albanian national dance, to the sound of a bad fiddle and a little jingling guitar played with a quill, for the amusement of her Majesty, who did not seem enchanted with this exhibition….these men, who were exposing themselves in this absurd manner, were the far-famed Colocotroni, Nikitas, surnamed the Turkophagos, or Turk-eater, Makryani, Vasso of Montenegro, Kota Botzaris,, and others equally celebrated…….this was merely the dance of the Albanians, a totally distinct race of men from the Greeks.
It is significant that many of the nineteenth-century alterations to the Acropolis were carried out at the instigation of Germans, whose contribution to the modern Greeks’ sense of their classical heritage was crucial………….. an attempt was made to Hellenize the Greek collective consciousness, and through katharevousa, to “purify” the modern Greek language.
The whole of Attica was an Arvanite province. According to George Finlay (in 1861) "Albanian colonists now occupy all Attica and Megaris, with the exception of the towns of Athens and Megara, where they form only a portion of the population." Furthermore, in the book "Greek Dress: From Ancient Times to the Early 20th Century" by Iōanna Papantōniou it says that "...costume in Attica was therefore associated with the Arvanites..."
Also, a report from 1820 explicitly states that one third of Athens and much of Attica spoke Albanian
really comprehensive
Balkan people have more common history than they are willing to admit. They shoud use it to unite themselfs instead of deviding themsefls and creating problems!
You mean they have it in common with Greece they take all our history
@@Weedwizard600 Not really.. for example most of the Balkan at some point was ruled by the Roman Empire, The Ottoman Empire, Austria-Hungary... so the local people who lived there during that time are they stealing their history? Also other Balkan countries have very different languages, music, food so what are they stealing exactly?
@@Diggy77 please different music and food the thracians and dacians were cousins of Greeks been on those lands far longer and started getting flooded with different peoples around 500 AD
@@Weedwizard600 Yes that`s true, demographic do changes over time but what is your point? If you go back in time even more all humans originated from Africa
@@Diggy77 yeah good point but that’s over 100,000’s of years ago this is completely recent within the last 1000 years it isn’t even comparable
And also now a day Macedonians are mixed with Slavs but I come from BITOLA, republic of Macedonia 🇲🇰 and we are real Macedonian I have a 700 year old family tree and we were always Macedonia not Slavs not Greeks even though I have absolutely no problem with Greeks or Slavs they are very nice people
You were Slavs and religiously self identified as Bulgarians until the 19th century. In the 19th century you started self identifying as 'Macedonians' due to leftist political factors. Indeed you are mixed Serbs and Bulgarians. As for the ancient Greek tribe of Macedonians, they had abandoned Macedonia in the 4th century AD. The vacuum was filled by Slavs, Bulgars and Avars who settled in the mostly depopulated Macedonia in the 7th century AD.
Mixed with Bulgars. Bulgars are not slavic. Slavic is Croatia and Slovenia. there and have nothing cimmon with this fight.
Of course you have 700yo family tree, you people migrated there around 6-7 century. I bet your last name is Slavic too!
MACEDONIANS 25 CENTURIES from FILIP KING ON MAKEDONIJA.
germans make Blgaria before 140 years.
2.14.4] Alexander drafted a reply to this letter and sent Thersippus to accompany the envoys from Darius, with instructions to hand over the letter to Darius but not to engage in any negotiations. Alexander's letter read as follows: "Your ancestors invaded Macedonia and the rest of Hellas and did us harm although we had not done you any previous injury. I have been appointed commander-in-chief of the Hellenes and it is with the aim of punishing the Persians that I have crossed into Asia, since you are the aggressors of my people..
“Now you fear punishment and beg for your lives, so I will let you free, if not for any other reason so that you can see the difference between a GREEK KING and a barbarian tyrant, so do not expect to suffer any harm from me. A king does not kill messengers.”
― Alexander the Great
**Quintius Curtius Rufus (History of Alexander; J.C. Rolfe /'Loeb') / Bk IV; chapt i(1), verse 11 (--Alexander 's letter to Darius III; continued): "...Again, Xerxes, of the same (i.e.: Persian) race, came to attack us ... ...; although defeated in a sea-fight, he left Mardonius IN GREECE (i.e.: 'Hellas'), in order that even in his (i.e.: King of Asia, Xerxes') absence he might lay waste OUR cities and burn OUR fields." ***(Plutarch): "Just after (King) Philip had taken Potidaea, he received these three messages at one time, that Parmenio had overthrown the Illyrians in a great battle, that his race-horse had won the course AT THE OLYMPIC GAMES (...i.e.: a quatrennial competition ONLY open to 'Hellenes'; i.e.: 'Greeks'), and that his wife had given birth to Alexander". “In all there were about three thousand Hellenic heavy infantry, accompanied by all the Macedonian cavalry with the Chalcidians, near one thousand strong, BESIDES an immense crowd of barbarians (i.e.: besides NON-Greeks)." (Thucydides 4.124). **Signed: A 'true' Macedonian whose forebears are from Hellas 's (Greece 's) north (...i.e.: ancient-Macedon-proper) since (likely) ancient times (...i.e.: pre-Bulgar +Slav incursions)! Today 's (west-Bulgar-speaking) 'North Macedonia' has nothing to do w/ ancient-Macedon (i.e.: 'Dorian' Greeks)!
different states same ppl
I don't believe what we are arguing about here! it is obvious that we decline to a medieval type era... In five years from now, we may be having a debate o if London is British or an ancient Pakistani colony. And Pakistanis stating: WE ARE LONDONERS!!! WE ARE NOT ENGLISH!! We have very little similarities to the British! but we got nothing in common with English!
Greetings from the republic of London! ... no seriously... I wonder how the above sounds to a Brit, other than hilarious.
Great work, glad to see someone doing all this hard work and having an objective approach into this controversial matter. Especially the explanation of the concept of 'barbarians' and Greek snoberry, were spot on. Don't be discouraged from Greek and North Macedonia nationalists taking this all wrong, there is an awful lot of propaganda and fake news from both sides. Unfortunatelly most people are not even aware that Ancient Macedonia ≠ Byzantine Macedonia ≠ Post Ottoman Macedonia ≠ Macedonian ethnicity ≠ Former Yogoslavia province. People need to chill out and read history
Thank you, although this map is way outdated now it does get better later on in the series. I’m actually surprised how I managed to piss off both the Greek and N. Macedonian nationalists at once.
@@ArchaiaHistoria
Fanatics will always be fanatics
@ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ is МАКЕДОНИЈА You said that Alexander joined the Olympic Games 2500 years ago, then you say that Greece has barery 200 years of history 🙈🙉🙊 You can't even spell Alexader without a typo, and the masons hashtag closed the case for me 🦄
@ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ is МАКЕДОНИЈА
I do agree with Alexis Heraclides' article, but maybe you should read the whole article, not just the part that suits your POV only. The rest of what you posted is pure crap.
"The very name Macedonia, revived during the early 19th century after the foundation of the modern Greek state, with its Western Europe-derived obsession with Ancient Greece, was applied to the local Slavs. The idea was to stimulate the development of close ties between them and the Greeks, linking both sides to the ancient Macedonians, as a counteract against the growing Bulgarian cultural influence into the region. In 1845, for instance, the Alexander romance was published in Slavic Macedonian dialect typed with Greek letters. At the same time the Russian ethnographer Viktor Grigorovich described a recent change in the title of the Greek Patriarchist bishop of Bitola: from Exarch of all Bulgaria to Exarch of all Macedonia. He also noted the unusual popularity of Alexander the Great and that it appeared to be something that was recently instilled on the local Slavs."
newikis.com/en/Macedonian_nationalism
Yes, both Greece and North Macedonia are suffering from systemic nationalism that was force fed from school, and exploited by politicians. And the Orthodox religion conservatism did not help either. Just look at N.Macedonians inveting 'Gayreeks' and mocking the Greek flag with the rainbow flag. You posted one of those videos yourself (maybe more, I didn't check them all, I have my limits)
Do your own research, because you won't find the truth in your school books, or Nationalist FB groups and YT channels. This particular video is solid, do yourself a favor and watch it, instead of trolling and debating like an 8 year old.
@@InfernalStateMachine whatever you say, wrong or right,but I respect, we Greeks are so frustrated for feeling the total unfair for trying to stealing the self evident!that Macedonians were a greek tribe, that has nothing to do with slavs came to this province much much later .Macedonians spoke Ancient Greek dialect and this is out of question!
Philip 2 our country he name the Philippines he name our country i m from the philippines
I’m sorry but you’re thinking of Philip II of Spain who lived in the 16th century CE
Philip he name our country in 1600th century!!! You dont know
@@ArchaiaHistoria 😂😂😂
@@ArchaiaHistoria ..Yes but the name Philip has greek origins...Also there is islands called Micronesia and polynesia which definitely have Greek roots in meaning...Anway goodnight SUCKERS..
@@ArchaiaHistoria Yes but he took up Philip 2 name. Why not just explain the origin and meaning of the Greek name?
Wait, thrace alone had a bigger population than persia? Like the entire Persian empire? So Alexander invaded persia with the manpower advantage? Wtf? Am hearing that right?
Well that's what Herodotus said... Obviously he was wrong, but it might be the case that Thrace was densely populated. Herodotus didn't always write about things he knew, often he would just write about things he heard. His descriptions can get wild as w result of that. Thoucydedes was much more accurate
I love💖R.Makedonia🇲🇰The End...
D Blaze So you love a fake country then
Fuck Monkeydonia. The End ;-)
You love your fake flag stealing hellenic history🤦♂️ your country is a joke.
North of Macedonia is more accurate 🇲🇰🎪🇲🇰🎪🇲🇰🎪🇲🇰😂😂😂😂
@@wankawanka3053 You are real Wanka.."You are North...
Vardarska slavs are not related to the Macedonians or any other ancient Greek tribe of the Balkans
Macedonia is Greece ONLY
Macedonia is Macedonia fuck you bitch
Check bulgars dna and yours and compare to slavic eg Poland. And stop spreading bullshits after you shake hand of your Bulgar brother.
No evidence of archaeological discovery of any sort with the words greek or greece yet . still looking .
then you need to open your bulgarian eyes wider dipshit, lol
Just visit any museum. On the other hand there is no written thing such as "Macedonian" language.
you are so idiot i dont know if it worths spending any more time on you..
Haters gonna hate!
@@user-jy8lc2vs3b MAKEDONCI govorat Makedonski jazik.
ti bleej .
Mount Olympus is 2918 Meter high