It's kind of funny how much more some old speakers can give in terms of impact, accuracy and soundstage. I have always had cheap bookshelf speakers and they just didn't deliver. My latest Kef Reference 104ab speakers from late 70's sound amazing. Reference from Kef was the best series. They have T27 tweeter, B200 bass unit (SP1039) and 8x10" BD139 passive radiator (SP1042). I am amazed how well they image. Vocalist is locked to the center way better than any cheap modern speaker. Impact is also very strong and tweeter is not lacking like I was expecting to be. These really first time opened vintage hifi for me.
Yes, back in the mid/late 80s, they were the first speaker to open my ears to proper high quality sound and open the door into the world of proper hi-fi. To improve on them you would today need to spend over £3500 for ready-made speakers or £2500 for a kit (new prices). FYI the only way i know of for you to better the sound you have for not much money is to source some second-hand Quad ESL63's - for around £600-700. You will never have to upgrade again except for possibly adding a high quality sub-woofer if you have to have bass down to 20Hz.
You made some very good points Kelvin, apart from your criticism of all cd players below the most expensive ones. I recently bought a Marantz cd 6007 player and it sounds excellent in my system with my best sounding cd's. I have no problem getting all the sound qualities you listed on this video. I would only add that refurbishing old speakers with new speaker components, upgraded crossovers, better wiring, terminals and damping material, can produce excellent results if done properly. It can also be done at a reasonable cost, compared to the cost of many new speaker systems from well known brands. You just need some good basic skills and appropriate tools. Apart from that idea, there are DIY speaker kits that can outperform ready made speakers, for less cost. PS. Kelvin, I hope you are not starting to become like those stuffy audiophiles always trying to flog expensive gear using lots of hi-fi jargon.
30 yr old tannoys and a modern marantz amp and CD player give you most of what you describe for very little money. That, and a garrard 401 SME arm with audio technica moving coil cartridge, fluid damper on the arm and wow,, amazing sound.
Afternoon Kelvin, your opinions are always well balanced and pretty much bang on.. I would particularly like to add my sixth penath to the CD vs Streaming.. view.Over the years I have accrued a lot of CD's and to be honest still happy with there sound performance but as you mentioned you need to splash some "beer money" on a player , to this end I have a Marantz CD 63 11. Ki . which I thought pretty good in std form upgraded by Fidelity Audio to a stage 2 spec , that at the time Included many upgrades to clock, pwr supply and op amps..when I got the unit back I slid in a classic from Michael Jackson , "Billy Jean" which I used a lot for testing gear ,it sounded so different, Clarity, detail imaging. Timing. It was like a different song . Don't skimp on the front end as we all know. Anyhoo have a great Sunday Kelvin and many thanks as usual.
I would say timbre accuracy of all acoustic instruments as you said and good and deep soundstage, that means that the system is able to perfectly reproduce all the ambience information of the support. I personally think that a good soundstage is quite easy to recreate with 2 ways bookshelf speakers on good stands while it's more of an issue with big towers. The celestion ditton 66 are a master in that probably due to their dome midrange. Moreover the greatest ability in make the speakers disappear inside the soundstage I think is linked to the tubes.
My priorities are natural female voice, smooth detailed sound and genuine dynamics. My room is 4mx4m so bass is not an issue for me. Source wise I remember when if you didn't have a Linn LP12 you may as well throw your hifi in the bin but Tidal gives me the quality and choice I need. Fed into a class a/b amp with a top quality dac then really its only the speakers to worry about. For my room, high quality small speakers are fine. (I worry when all the money is spent on the wood and veneers for big floor standers). Thanks Kelvin for your genuine hifi videos, I watch them all with interest. Cheers Phil
Hi Kelvin, I couldn't agree more with your assessment of what constitutes musical bliss. I want to point out some things that will address why things sound better or worse. A reasonably priced ($300-$500) modern DAC made China will sound much better than the most expensive CD player of the past. Reason being that digital files need to be converted to analog and DACs have improved immensely over the past 10 years. CD players and streamers have a built in DAC, thus can be improved with a standalone DAC. All of the attributes you mentioned for great sound, I have (in spades) in my system. I started with a killer amp (used), decent preamp (used) and an okay DAC and analyzed with different speakers overtime. I added a great DAC (new) and it sounded better overall, but due to the increased detail and dynamics, the shortcomings (a little bit edgy) from my preamp wasn't cutting it. At this point I had dynamics, tuneful solid bass in the room, instrument separation, speed, agility, airy big soundstage, with a tiny bit of edginess and glare. I can not deal with edginess and glare. It will put me in analytical mode. I already knew the matching preamp (tube like sound with great bass) to my mono block amps would be a match made in Heaven, but I didn't want to pay $4500 for a new one. I found a pristine one on eBay for $1700 and I was blown away when I hooked it up. More detail, yet silky smooth and even deeper bass grunt. The vocals are amazing, much like a tube preamp, without the short comings. My point is that every component feeds it's signal into the next component, and you can't really fix shortcomings upstream after the fact. Sure, you can add a warm amp to a bright (harsh) preamp, but you will never get the great sound we are talking about. Neutral, neutral, neutral is the key, because it means the device is just amplifying the signal and passing it down the line. I can play music very loud and clear on my neutral system, because it never gives to little or to much. The bass is powerful and dynamic (if the song has it), yet never gets in the way of the vocals. The bass has to be super tight (start and stop on a dime), otherwise it will kill the magic of the best of vocals when it rings on too long. I have been watching many of your videos and I have a ton more to comment on, but it's getting late and I want to listen to music. I signed out from UA-cam a few month ago, because I was tired of their control freak BS (making me watch 7 minutes of forced ads to watch a 6minute video). They don't like it when you turn off all of the spying crap. I will stay signed in so I can respond to the questions you requested input from many other of your videos.
@@stereoreviewx Kelvin. Do you understand what he is saying about the high quality of current stand alone DAC's compared to DAC's in old CD players and the way they are implemented? It also applies to DAC's used in many current low to mid priced CD players which need to stay competitive with streamers in terms of sound quality. PS. I don't know where you get this strange idea from that CD players don't play the music data in a continuous sine wave. The lazer reads the data and stores it in the order it is read (buffering), and is immediately digitally processed (filtering) before converting it to analogue sine waves and outputs it, like any other music source device, to the preamp inputs of an amplifier. It is no more strange or difficult to understand than how a stylus picks up vibrations from the jagged sides of a record groove as it runs along them and get converted by minute coils and magnets into tiny electrical signals that represent sound waves. I think you just have a personal prejudice in favour of records over CD's, when, in reality, there are poor to high quality records and record players just as there are poor to high quality CD's and CD players.
I would like to act PRaT to that. Pace Rhythm and Timing. Has mainly to do with the speed of the gear and the clocking of the digital part. It what's make your feet tap when listening to the music, partly the same thing as sound stage as accurate timing is also essential for the sound stage. I've never seen you do a Sub Woofer, so I guess you are not into that. It will help tremendously with scaling up de music at louder levels.
Good stuff this. Thanks. Recreating the sound of a piano, i was told, isnt easy and a bit of a test for evaluating speakers/system. Your thoughts on this?
A hi fi system is not recreating the sound of a piano, a person's voice or any instrument or noise. What we hear are results of the work done by recording engineers, mastering engineers, CD or record production technicians, the equipment they have used and how they have used it and, finally, the sound from the particular hi fi equipment we are using to play back the sounds. All of those processes have an effect on the sound we hear, which is why there is a lot of variation in the sounds from different recordings. Unless you can compare the same recordings through different hi fi systems or components in a system, it is difficult to say what the sound quality issue is and what is the cause of it. In many cases it is the recordings themselves which are the cause and even systems that can reproduce the most accurate, best quality sound will only give us what is on the recording.
Interesting discussion -- 'surprisingly tough to get most of these qualities in one package even if spending a decent amount of funds. I'm shopping for my first serious amp; choice A has dynamics but not the best tonal accuracy, choice B vice versa etc
Synergy is the most expensive attribute. This unfortunate circumstance is due to the demise of good quality hi-fi shops. Previously, obtaining a harmonious system was just part of the fun. You could easily book equipment demonstrations and gain access to the expertise of staff who themselves were also hi-fi enthusiasts. The only pitfall was the need to be careful with respect to equipment that was hyped by the audio magazines. Today’s hi-fi shopper is guided by influencers and is wooed by discounted equipment from on-line sales or the now popular direct sales model. Is it any surprise that a system built in this method does not satisfy the listener. So, system synergy becomes elusive, and we keep buying replacement equipment.
So cut to the chase - pay as much as you can! Personally I believe that the older you get the harder it is to differentiate so you are not going to hear the difference. So at the time of life you can hear the difference you cannot afford it and when you can it makes no bloody difference!
Hi Kelvin, you say turntables sound better than CD players? What do you consider to be the minimum standard for a decent turntable? My £350 cd player used as a transport with cheap Topping dac outperforms my £500 turntable with separate phono stage in every area. Used several different cartridges 2m blue, E4 etc but still inferior!
I agree a speaker that has impact and can get loud and hold it together is hard to find sometimes. The most powerful ive ever heard (with enoug current and power and i mean ALOT, as they seem to be able to withstand nearly anything) is the klipsch RF7 series 1, those are absolutely nuts, crazy low end impact and spl levels you wouldnt believe, and sound great throughout, they do dip very low in imoedance though so need a great amp behind those at higher volumes. My favorite all arounder at the time, or top 3 anyway (not loudest but plenty enough) is the Snell type E, just perfect on everything, amazing bass quality and depth.
I’ve recently got some hearing aids, due to age related hearing loss. It happens so slowly you don’t notice…till it’s corrected with aids when you realise how much you’ve been missing. Now, when I see an older person talking about Hifi, I think “when did you last get your hearing checked?”
There is one vintage speaker that can tick more of Kelvin's boxes than any other by a large margin and that is the Quad ESL63. The quality of reproduction is simply unbeatable at the prices they can be picked up for. New, you would have to spend ten times as much to get to that level of sound - well over £6000+. If you think the Rogers LS3/5a has a sublime mid-range then be prepared to be blown away by the ESL63's.
A well mastered CD on a 400 € player sounds better than a brickwall-mastered album on a 10.000 € player/streamer. The most important thing is to check if the final production is done right when you compare different formats.
Some modern DAC for 200, Hypex nCore poweramp for 500, and 3-way tower speakers for 1000 (or even less) will get you all these qualities at once and in abundance these days. For speakers, choose Danish or German manufacturers. Many of them traditionally prefer a neutral, balanced tuning.
@ Very much room dependent, just like every other speaker in that regard. Maybe people expect maggies to fill large rooms easily, because even the little ones are quite tall, but a large room asks for very large Magnepans. Quality sound in a big space is in fact never easy.
Regarding digital equipment and Class-D poweramps: While most DAC chips nowadays are clearly above and beyond anything a human can hear,its the powersupplies,the output stages, the pcb layout and the used passive components that limit soundquality. Class-D amps,even many cheap ones,have come qualitywise a long way. But again its the powersupply and the input driverstage that often limits soundquality. Many chinese producers meanwhile offer the possibilty to switch opamps (and where used valves) that are used in DAC output stages or in driver stages of Class-D amps. In this regard especialy the Sparkos hybrid opamps are in high regard as quality replacements. Speakers: Well,imho,despite all the technological advances in recent decades,still nothing can beat a "mature" 3-way unless you are in the privileged position to let a high quality speaker manufacturer make chassis that are taylored to your specifications. Like DeVore for example. And then of course they will cost a fortune,like the 97k€ for their top model..... DIY is still a viable option to reach higher quality for way less cost,but it takes time and effort.
Just been listening to a live band in Bournemouth , realised my stereo doesnt come close to the sheer impact of the instruments being played especially the drums 😢The band was Gugge 2000.
The trouble with getting old is trying to come to terms with the cost of half-way decent speakers compared to when you last bought some. Is it just inflation or are manufactures taking the piss?
. But the benefit of getting old is delayed gratification & experience, meaning us Oldies can patiently save up for gear they know will have satisfying sound. Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass🔈🔉🔊
I agree with everything, but I want to add one more category. Make streaming to sound like "good" analog🤞 This has cost me $$$$$🤣🤣🤣 I think I should have started with the streamer with the best PSU I can afford.
My top criteria include space, separation of instruments, detail, soundstage, involvement and tonal accuracy - bass is not a main consideration in my small terraced cottage, i try to keep it down and tight, never loud, large tower speakers with huge bass capability would shake the roof tiles off and make me very unpopular with the neighbours! If i had a large detached house in the middle of a field maybe. Regarding CD players, i rarely use CD's but i find the Rotel CD11 Tribute pretty good but will never sound better than a Linn LP12.
about nr.1 to get it without a super amount of money, you would try good pro gears, pro loudspeakers, as ElectroVoice or D&B or other good gears, the real thing i think it's the acoustical treatment of the ambient, going loud there we find big limitations, troubles, issues that might need an expert technician to solve it. so money and the will to change the aspect of the room.
Vintage, and I am. You have a fine list there. The average living room, for example 13’x12’,means there are compromises for the non fanatic. There used to be an advertisement by a London dealer for a system that had the ls3/5a and an Audio Pro subwoofer. I’ve never had a sub but used the bbc speaker for twenty years. The only thing not from your list was extreme loudness and bass slam. I would love to have heard the Thomas Heinitz system. It would have fitted into the living room. Best wishes, Geoff.
I’m surprised you didn’t include a silent, no noise, background as a Hi-Fi quality component, it takes some money to get there, but it is certainly worth it, and one of the first things I look for when evaluating a new (to me) piece of kit.
I've always found Speakers make the most sound 'difference' to a hifi set up......I remember years ago replacing the speakers in my existing hifi set up, it was like I had purchased a brand new HiFi! I find there is a sweet spot with speaker size.....but I guess that has something to do with the room size etc...Yes I can get thumping bass from a large pair of speakers, but the bass seems a bit one note.....not tuneful or Accurate. That is the magic of hifi, the quest for the sweet spot!
I guess you named the right things most responsible for the specific sound qualities. About loudness, some say that 93dB/1W is more or less the limit for a cone-driver, if your goal is high-end sound quality. And I guess there is some truth to it. The more powerful a driver gets, the stiffer and solid the cone has to be. Imo not qualities, that promote high resolution and dynamics. What is your take on that? And what sound pressure do you consider to be really loud?
Today you gotta go 20K+ for a decent kit, sure there‘s sub 1k hifi gear, that works well as an entry, but the big joy is much higher up. Or it‘s in the 2000s or the 70s kits of high quality. Texture, what you call human voice, just the texture of whatever is „sounding“ must be real, it‘s the edge of the voicing. Like a tree isn‘t just a green-grey-brown pillar, well positioned and big on a specific place, no texture no tree, just a pillar.
I think your best value is a good amplifier / receiver Good turntable and two vintage larger speakers. I had all the other things and got rid of them because none of them including CD could hold up to those three core things
for the bass impact , i prefer bookshelf speakers who have alots of details with a bif subwoofer like a 15 inch one. For me i have a pair of Elac debut 2.0 b6.2 (who i really like) and a big sub Definitive technology powershell 1500
I’ve a/b ed my Cambridge audio cd with twin DAC chips wolfstones I think through my J2 and don’t hear much of an improvement to be honest . Quad 405/2 and tannoy Mansfield 12s .
Try the quad esl 57s for soundstage. Forget vinyl its hype. I get a nice soundstage streaming on Tidal with an audioquest dragonfly cobalt dac via a pc not sure streamers are worth the extra money.
How about voices and instruments that sound REAL? That don't sound like they're being reproduced through a "system" A "system" that gets out of the way of the music is what i seek. I don't care about the audiophile jargon, soundstage, airy, timbre, imaging, detail, All that matters is how convincingly REAL does it FEEL, not SOUND, how does it FEEL?
Pay as cheap as you can get used. Yamaha cr2020 $25 bucks Henry kloss Tower speakers and ads speakers for a $100 bucks, if you have a ton of money, plenty of things you can buy, I'm on a tight budget. CD player I use a Blu Ray it sounds the best.
It's kind of funny how much more some old speakers can give in terms of impact, accuracy and soundstage. I have always had cheap bookshelf speakers and they just didn't deliver. My latest Kef Reference 104ab speakers from late 70's sound amazing. Reference from Kef was the best series. They have T27 tweeter, B200 bass unit (SP1039) and 8x10" BD139 passive radiator (SP1042). I am amazed how well they image. Vocalist is locked to the center way better than any cheap modern speaker. Impact is also very strong and tweeter is not lacking like I was expecting to be. These really first time opened vintage hifi for me.
Yes, back in the mid/late 80s, they were the first speaker to open my ears to proper high quality sound and open the door into the world of proper hi-fi. To improve on them you would today need to spend over £3500 for ready-made speakers or £2500 for a kit (new prices). FYI the only way i know of for you to better the sound you have for not much money is to source some second-hand Quad ESL63's - for around £600-700. You will never have to upgrade again except for possibly adding a high quality sub-woofer if you have to have bass down to 20Hz.
Amazing is correct....104ab is the one!
A lot their new KEF speaker are no slouch’s too.
You made some very good points Kelvin, apart from your criticism of all cd players below the most expensive ones. I recently bought a Marantz cd 6007 player and it sounds excellent in my system with my best sounding cd's. I have no problem getting all the sound qualities you listed on this video. I would only add that refurbishing old speakers with new speaker components, upgraded crossovers, better wiring, terminals and damping material, can produce excellent results if done properly. It can also be done at a reasonable cost, compared to the cost of many new speaker systems from well known brands. You just need some good basic skills and appropriate tools. Apart from that idea, there are DIY speaker kits that can outperform ready made speakers, for less cost. PS. Kelvin, I hope you are not starting to become like those stuffy audiophiles always trying to flog expensive gear using lots of hi-fi jargon.
30 yr old tannoys and a modern marantz amp and CD player give you most of what you describe for very little money. That, and a garrard 401 SME arm with audio technica moving coil cartridge, fluid damper on the arm and wow,, amazing sound.
Just got myself a pair of Chartwell LS3/5a's and love how vocals sound on them
Afternoon Kelvin, your opinions are always well balanced and pretty much bang on.. I would particularly like to add my sixth penath to the CD vs Streaming.. view.Over the years I have accrued a lot of CD's and to be honest still happy with there sound performance but as you mentioned you need to splash some "beer money" on a player , to this end I have a Marantz CD 63 11. Ki . which I thought pretty good in std form upgraded by Fidelity Audio to a stage 2 spec , that at the time
Included many upgrades to clock, pwr supply and op amps..when I got the unit back I slid in a classic from Michael Jackson , "Billy Jean" which I used a lot for testing gear ,it sounded so different, Clarity, detail imaging. Timing.
It was like a different song . Don't skimp on the front end as we all know.
Anyhoo have a great Sunday Kelvin and many thanks as usual.
Are you the guy to confirm whether an opinion is correct or not?
I would say timbre accuracy of all acoustic instruments as you said and good and deep soundstage, that means that the system is able to perfectly reproduce all the ambience information of the support. I personally think that a good soundstage is quite easy to recreate with 2 ways bookshelf speakers on good stands while it's more of an issue with big towers. The celestion ditton 66 are a master in that probably due to their dome midrange. Moreover the greatest ability in make the speakers disappear inside the soundstage I think is linked to the tubes.
Great advice as usual I'm sure it will help many folk make a more informed choice
Great video kelvin
My priorities are natural female voice, smooth detailed sound and genuine dynamics.
My room is 4mx4m so bass is not an issue for me.
Source wise I remember when if you didn't have a Linn LP12 you may as well throw your hifi in the bin but Tidal gives me the quality and choice I need.
Fed into a class a/b amp with a top quality dac then really its only the speakers to worry about.
For my room, high quality small speakers are fine. (I worry when all the money is spent on the wood and veneers for big floor standers).
Thanks Kelvin for your genuine hifi videos, I watch them all with interest.
Cheers
Phil
Hi Kelvin, I couldn't agree more with your assessment of what constitutes musical bliss. I want to point out some things that will address why things sound better or worse. A reasonably priced ($300-$500) modern DAC made China will sound much better than the most expensive CD player of the past. Reason being that digital files need to be converted to analog and DACs have improved immensely over the past 10 years. CD players and streamers have a built in DAC, thus can be improved with a standalone DAC.
All of the attributes you mentioned for great sound, I have (in spades) in my system. I started with a killer amp (used), decent preamp (used) and an okay DAC and analyzed with different speakers overtime. I added a great DAC (new) and it sounded better overall, but due to the increased detail and dynamics, the shortcomings (a little bit edgy) from my preamp wasn't cutting it. At this point I had dynamics, tuneful solid bass in the room, instrument separation, speed, agility, airy big soundstage, with a tiny bit of edginess and glare. I can not deal with edginess and glare. It will put me in analytical mode. I already knew the matching preamp (tube like sound with great bass) to my mono block amps would be a match made in Heaven, but I didn't want to pay $4500 for a new one. I found a pristine one on eBay for $1700 and I was blown away when I hooked it up. More detail, yet silky smooth and even deeper bass grunt. The vocals are amazing, much like a tube preamp, without the short comings. My point is that every component feeds it's signal into the next component, and you can't really fix shortcomings upstream after the fact. Sure, you can add a warm amp to a bright (harsh) preamp, but you will never get the great sound we are talking about. Neutral, neutral, neutral is the key, because it means the device is just amplifying the signal and passing it down the line. I can play music very loud and clear on my neutral system, because it never gives to little or to much. The bass is powerful and dynamic (if the song has it), yet never gets in the way of the vocals. The bass has to be super tight (start and stop on a dime), otherwise it will kill the magic of the best of vocals when it rings on too long.
I have been watching many of your videos and I have a ton more to comment on, but it's getting late and I want to listen to music. I signed out from UA-cam a few month ago, because I was tired of their control freak BS (making me watch 7 minutes of forced ads to watch a 6minute video). They don't like it when you turn off all of the spying crap. I will stay signed in so I can respond to the questions you requested input from many other of your videos.
Great comments thanks particularly the bit about puts me into analytical mode .
Such a game changer .
K
@@stereoreviewx Kelvin. Do you understand what he is saying about the high quality of current stand alone DAC's compared to DAC's in old CD players and the way they are implemented? It also applies to DAC's used in many current low to mid priced CD players which need to stay competitive with streamers in terms of sound quality. PS. I don't know where you get this strange idea from that CD players don't play the music data in a continuous sine wave. The lazer reads the data and stores it in the order it is read (buffering), and is immediately digitally processed (filtering) before converting it to analogue sine waves and outputs it, like any other music source device, to the preamp inputs of an amplifier. It is no more strange or difficult to understand than how a stylus picks up vibrations from the jagged sides of a record groove as it runs along them and get converted by minute coils and magnets into tiny electrical signals that represent sound waves. I think you just have a personal prejudice in favour of records over CD's, when, in reality, there are poor to high quality records and record players just as there are poor to high quality CD's and CD players.
That series bang and Olufsen really do look and sound good!
Indeed
I would like to act PRaT to that. Pace Rhythm and Timing. Has mainly to do with the speed of the gear and the clocking of the digital part. It what's make your feet tap when listening to the music, partly the same thing as sound stage as accurate timing is also essential for the sound stage. I've never seen you do a Sub Woofer, so I guess you are not into that. It will help tremendously with scaling up de music at louder levels.
Good stuff this. Thanks.
Recreating the sound of a piano, i was told, isnt easy and a bit of a test for evaluating speakers/system. Your thoughts on this?
Yeah, that’s true. The way it tails off as well
A hi fi system is not recreating the sound of a piano, a person's voice or any instrument or noise. What we hear are results of the work done by recording engineers, mastering engineers, CD or record production technicians, the equipment they have used and how they have used it and, finally, the sound from the particular hi fi equipment we are using to play back the sounds. All of those processes have an effect on the sound we hear, which is why there is a lot of variation in the sounds from different recordings. Unless you can compare the same recordings through different hi fi systems or components in a system, it is difficult to say what the sound quality issue is and what is the cause of it. In many cases it is the recordings themselves which are the cause and even systems that can reproduce the most accurate, best quality sound will only give us what is on the recording.
Interesting discussion -- 'surprisingly tough to get most of these qualities in one package even if spending a decent amount of funds. I'm shopping for my first serious amp; choice A has dynamics but not the best tonal accuracy, choice B vice versa etc
Synergy is the most expensive attribute. This unfortunate circumstance is due to the demise of good quality hi-fi shops. Previously, obtaining a harmonious system was just part of the fun. You could easily book equipment demonstrations and gain access to the expertise of staff who themselves were also hi-fi enthusiasts. The only pitfall was the need to be careful with respect to equipment that was hyped by the audio magazines. Today’s hi-fi shopper is guided by influencers and is wooed by discounted equipment from on-line sales or the now popular direct sales model. Is it any surprise that a system built in this method does not satisfy the listener. So, system synergy becomes elusive, and we keep buying replacement equipment.
So cut to the chase - pay as much as you can! Personally I believe that the older you get the harder it is to differentiate so you are not going to hear the difference. So at the time of life you can hear the difference you cannot afford it and when you can it makes no bloody difference!
Lol..........
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass🔈🔉🔊
One of the very few benefits of growing old.
Hi Kelvin, you say turntables sound better than CD players? What do you consider to be the minimum standard for a decent turntable? My £350 cd player used as a transport with cheap Topping dac outperforms my £500 turntable with separate phono stage in every area. Used several different cartridges 2m blue, E4 etc but still inferior!
@@PGS51 I suggest starting a thread to address Kelvin.
I agree a speaker that has impact and can get loud and hold it together is hard to find sometimes. The most powerful ive ever heard (with enoug current and power and i mean ALOT, as they seem to be able to withstand nearly anything) is the klipsch RF7 series 1, those are absolutely nuts, crazy low end impact and spl levels you wouldnt believe, and sound great throughout, they do dip very low in imoedance though so need a great amp behind those at higher volumes. My favorite all arounder at the time, or top 3 anyway (not loudest but plenty enough) is the Snell type E, just perfect on everything, amazing bass quality and depth.
I’ve recently got some hearing aids, due to age related hearing loss. It happens so slowly you don’t notice…till it’s corrected with aids when you realise how much you’ve been missing. Now, when I see an older person talking about Hifi, I think “when did you last get your hearing checked?”
Never, I can still hear the birds chirping outside😂
You got to have the ears, priceless.
There is one vintage speaker that can tick more of Kelvin's boxes than any other by a large margin and that is the Quad ESL63. The quality of reproduction is simply unbeatable at the prices they can be picked up for. New, you would have to spend ten times as much to get to that level of sound - well over £6000+. If you think the Rogers LS3/5a has a sublime mid-range then be prepared to be blown away by the ESL63's.
A well mastered CD on a 400 € player sounds better than a brickwall-mastered album on a 10.000 € player/streamer.
The most important thing is to check if the final production is done right when you compare different formats.
Some modern DAC for 200, Hypex nCore poweramp for 500, and 3-way tower speakers for 1000 (or even less) will get you all these qualities at once and in abundance these days. For speakers, choose Danish or German manufacturers. Many of them traditionally prefer a neutral, balanced tuning.
Tonal accuracy on a budget, try Magnepans. Impressive talk by the way.
Better still, Quad ESL63's.
According to some, they lack dynamics in the bass and probably need a sub.
@ Very much room dependent, just like every other speaker in that regard. Maybe people expect maggies to fill large rooms easily, because even the little ones are quite tall, but a large room asks for very large Magnepans. Quality sound in a big space is in fact never easy.
Regarding digital equipment and Class-D poweramps: While most DAC chips nowadays are clearly above and beyond anything
a human can hear,its the powersupplies,the output stages, the pcb layout and the used passive components that limit soundquality.
Class-D amps,even many cheap ones,have come qualitywise a long way. But again its the powersupply and the input driverstage that
often limits soundquality. Many chinese producers meanwhile offer the possibilty to switch opamps (and where used valves) that are
used in DAC output stages or in driver stages of Class-D amps. In this regard especialy the Sparkos hybrid opamps are in high regard
as quality replacements.
Speakers: Well,imho,despite all the technological advances in recent decades,still nothing can beat a "mature" 3-way unless you are in
the privileged position to let a high quality speaker manufacturer make chassis that are taylored to your specifications. Like DeVore for
example. And then of course they will cost a fortune,like the 97k€ for their top model.....
DIY is still a viable option to reach higher quality for way less cost,but it takes time and effort.
Just been listening to a live band in Bournemouth , realised my stereo doesnt come close to the sheer impact of the instruments being played especially the drums 😢The band was Gugge 2000.
I don't think anyone's system would live music is always better by miles .especially if they are any good .
@justinparkman3585 regardless of cost 🤔
The trouble with getting old is trying to come to terms with the cost of half-way decent speakers compared to when you last bought some. Is it just inflation or are manufactures taking the piss?
. But the benefit of getting old is delayed gratification & experience, meaning us Oldies can patiently save up for gear they know will have satisfying sound.
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass🔈🔉🔊
Yes, I know what you mean
I agree with everything, but I want to add one more category. Make streaming to sound like "good" analog🤞 This has cost me $$$$$🤣🤣🤣 I think I should have started with the streamer with the best PSU I can afford.
My top criteria include space, separation of instruments, detail, soundstage, involvement and tonal accuracy - bass is not a main consideration in my small terraced cottage, i try to keep it down and tight, never loud, large tower speakers with huge bass capability would shake the roof tiles off and make me very unpopular with the neighbours! If i had a large detached house in the middle of a field maybe. Regarding CD players, i rarely use CD's but i find the Rotel CD11 Tribute pretty good but will never sound better than a Linn LP12.
about nr.1 to get it without a super amount of money, you would try good pro gears, pro loudspeakers, as ElectroVoice or D&B or other good gears, the real thing i think it's the acoustical treatment of the ambient, going loud there we find big limitations, troubles, issues that might need an expert technician to solve it. so money and the will to change the aspect of the room.
Vintage, and I am. You have a fine list there. The average living room, for example 13’x12’,means there are compromises for the non fanatic.
There used to be an advertisement by a London dealer for a system that had the ls3/5a and an Audio Pro subwoofer. I’ve never had a sub but used the bbc speaker for twenty years. The only thing not from your list was extreme loudness and bass slam. I would love to have heard the Thomas Heinitz system. It would have fitted into the living room.
Best wishes, Geoff.
I’m surprised you didn’t include a silent, no noise, background as a Hi-Fi quality component, it takes some money to get there, but it is certainly worth it, and one of the first things I look for when evaluating a new (to me) piece of kit.
I've always found Speakers make the most sound 'difference' to a hifi set up......I remember years ago replacing the speakers in my existing hifi set up, it was like I had purchased a brand new HiFi! I find there is a sweet spot with speaker size.....but I guess that has something to do with the room size etc...Yes I can get thumping bass from a large pair of speakers, but the bass seems a bit one note.....not tuneful or Accurate. That is the magic of hifi, the quest for the sweet spot!
I guess you named the right things most responsible for the specific sound qualities. About loudness, some say that 93dB/1W is more or less the limit for a cone-driver, if your goal is high-end sound quality. And I guess there is some truth to it. The more powerful a driver gets, the stiffer and solid the cone has to be. Imo not qualities, that promote high resolution and dynamics. What is your take on that? And what sound pressure do you consider to be really loud?
Great video, but where did you get this table lamp, pal?
Mathamos expensive though
@@stereoreviewx I can imagine, but I like it.
Nice lava lamps
Today you gotta go 20K+ for a decent kit, sure there‘s sub 1k hifi gear, that works well as an entry, but the big joy is much higher up. Or it‘s in the 2000s or the 70s kits of high quality. Texture, what you call human voice, just the texture of whatever is „sounding“ must be real, it‘s the edge of the voicing. Like a tree isn‘t just a green-grey-brown pillar, well positioned and big on a specific place, no texture no tree, just a pillar.
I think your best value is a good amplifier / receiver Good turntable and two vintage larger speakers. I had all the other things and got rid of them because none of them including CD could hold up to those three core things
I’m pretty much with you
for the bass impact , i prefer bookshelf speakers who have alots of details with a bif subwoofer like a 15 inch one. For me i have a pair of Elac debut 2.0 b6.2 (who i really like) and a big sub Definitive technology powershell 1500
. I'll never understand why enthusiasts accept listening to the bottom 3rd of the music in Mono.
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass🔈🔉🔊
. And I've never seen or heard a bass guitar player use a subwoofer.
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass🔈🔉🔊
Sound stage, used $100 Cambridge cd player through a $250 jeshelli Dac, and you have sound stage Galore.
I’ve a/b ed my Cambridge audio cd with twin DAC chips wolfstones I think through my J2 and don’t hear much of an improvement to be honest . Quad 405/2 and tannoy Mansfield 12s .
Panasonic’s High-Resolution Audio SC-PMX100/PMX100B
The LincsD-Amp one can pick up these very cheap today. Class D High Resolution
3 Ohm.
Q acoustics 3020i with rel 5ti wow
You forgot separation Kelvin.
Try the quad esl 57s for soundstage. Forget vinyl its hype. I get a nice soundstage streaming on Tidal with an audioquest dragonfly cobalt dac via a pc not sure streamers are worth the extra money.
How about voices and instruments that sound REAL?
That don't sound like they're being reproduced through a "system"
A "system" that gets out of the way of the music is what i seek.
I don't care about the audiophile jargon, soundstage, airy, timbre, imaging, detail,
All that matters is how convincingly REAL does it FEEL, not SOUND, how does it FEEL?
Quad ESL63's and Benchmark dac and power amps.
Are you getting my comments you didn't reply to my last one
Get a decent turntable and a expensive cartridge.
Pay as cheap as you can get used.
Yamaha cr2020 $25 bucks
Henry kloss Tower speakers and ads speakers for a $100 bucks, if you have a ton of money, plenty of things you can buy, I'm on a tight budget.
CD player I use a Blu Ray it sounds the best.
Is there a link to send you a message.